The main problem is "classic Mordheim" community grew with a mentality that goes against current GW practicies: DIY tutorials, "cheap" models, kitbashing, conversions, ¡free downloadable content at the end! And in this last twenty years fans have made revisions, updates, shared everything... I'm even practicing to make a wiki app for Mordheim! Yeah, they could sell new things but the community is beyond GW at this point. And that's a good thing.
@@benjihound993 Thank you. I hope to have something "workable" by September, at the moment I'm building the database and testing things in Python to make an interface like the old desktop encyclopedia software. The idea is to add in the future list building options and a "campaign chronicle", with options to select how many rules to use (only Mordheim with revisions, add Empire in flames, upload revised "hombrew" rules...).
The recent Necromunda reboot seems to hold to most of those values (excluding having official free rules) - which I think is one of the benefits of it not being produced by the main studios.
@@redscope897 First, by cheap model I mean the original release, not current prices on Ebay nor the talk about "if we adjust for inflation GW prices aren't that high", specially because adquisiton power has gone down in the last 20 years. Second, most of the people in my circle use models from other systems in addition to old and, yes, new GW models. I'm not saying "Mordheim models would not sell", I'm saying "GW trying to gain control and direct the evolution of Mordeim would not work". Of course, experience may vary depending were you live (Canary Islands and Catalonia in my case). I have bought second hand models for 6-10 euros, wich is an aceptble price for old metal miniatures in my opinion, and when I sell I try to use those prices. Do people spend a lot of money making tables specifically for Mordheim? Yes. And the most impressive ones I've seen use ZERO Games Workshop terrain, all foamboard, balsa wood, patience and effort. Again, I'm not trying to deny your experience, my BIL and I always joke about how many children would go without presents the Christmas GW rerelease the original Mordheim box.
@@kayosiiii Yeah, but it seems having so many rulebooks is making it less popular in my part of the city, haven't found anyone that plays. I was thinking of kitbashing a venator band but I'm at a loss in what I need to check to know how to building/playing them.
Love your channel, Leif! I do not play Mordheim currently but I have used a bunch of your tutorials to make terrain for my Pathfinder and Fantasy Wargaming boards!
The oddest think one encounters, and realizes, that some of the best games in the tabletop hobby are the dead games no one is in control over and messing with.
Honestly print on demand for older black library books would also be great for them. Especially because they seem to only care about hard back specail editions. GW is massive and yet leave so Much money on the table.
Given the Black Library books represent one of the easiest and more approachable ways to get into Warhammer, it's weird their books aren't constantly kept in print. Maybe not the more obscure ones, obviously. But things like Gaunt's Ghosts, the Eisenhorn books, etc.
No, not regular black library releases something like "Signed by the author, featuring a screen-printed canvas cover, ribbon bookmark, an afterword by the author, and the additional short story..." And whatever GW can get away -minimal work, just an alt cover- with their special edition codexes But yeah it's hard to recommend something you enjoyed because it's shop timeframe is pitiful by the time it arrives in your country and read it it's been sold out for months
There's a weird mindset of being a greedy company but also wanting their products to be seen as luxurious so they're fine with leaving money on the table. They leave money on the table everywhere bc they want it to be a prestigious upper middle class hobby.
Mordheim was released in 1999 making this year its 25th Anniversary. It would make business sense for GeeDubs to release Mordheim as a Made to Order basis. No risk for them. Major nostalgia for their customers.
This would be the smartest way to do it. and like @benjaminpowers609 said, it renews their IP claim. But even releasing the old Empire Militia box, a box of the classic Skaven, and a few of the other warbands, as Made to Order sets, would go a long way with the "Oldheim" people with nostalgia for this game.
It`s so enlightening when all you want from the creators of your favourite game is for them to stay away from it, forget about its existence and let it dead so we can enjoy it.
If you look online, it takes minutes to find updated Mordheim rules & resources. Get a 3D printer (or find suitable minis) online and it will be a lot cheaper than getting into a mythical GW remake with all the current 'issues' they love to pre-load their games with nowadays.
That "get a junior designer to scan in the rulebook" idea's something I know they've done before - Louise Sugden's talked about how they had her do that with the original Slaves to Darkness book, but they only sell those (StD, Lost and the Damned and Rogue Trader) as hardcovers that you can only get at their events or Warhammer World, so I don't know if they'd relinquish the publishing to a Print on Demand service.
They should - they’d make a lot more money - selling books with little to no effort and THEN selling more paints and models and whatnot. Thanks for watching!
Mordheim came out in 99, I got it on my 14th birthday and it’s to date the best birthday present I’ve ever gotten. It’s such a brilliant game, and some on the balance issues can make it ever more fun at times. The setting is great. The artwork is great. The community is greater. I agree all we need is the book to be reprintable so new players can get in on the action. That being said I’d love some GW plastic terrain for it cos I’m a self confessed GW fanboy for life, 25 years and counting.
I feel like this video is secretly "Why GW should leave miniature wargaming alone", but I'm here for it! I'm into sci-fi at the moment, but Rangers of Shadow Deep, Frostgrave, Mordheim and Deth Wizards certainly make fantasy skirmish games seem very appealing!
To tell how fine the community is doing - in my country where we have certain legal freedoms a group of people translated and printed Mordheim books unofficially. Hard cover, nice gloss paper. Sold quite well from what I can tell
My friends and I just spent 5 days playing Mordheim for its 25th anniversary. We are all from Memphis and a few of them are former GW employees. We got together to celebrate one friend's recent marriage and played games in an ABnB. We used scratch built, 3d printed, and GW terrain and models. We had a blast playing Mordheim because we love its simple yet fun gameplay and after action minigame.
Essentially it's a trust issue; we love Mordheim, please don't mess it up with a re-release. We don't need new releases each week and power creep. Also, Frostgrave is Mordheim+. Nice video.
@@GabCampbell As I understand it Necromunda has had books released for each gang with new models that make gangs considerably stronger, not least because they provide more options for each gang. That sounds like gangs getting more powerful provided you buy more releases, be they books and/or models. The trickle of releases might be slow, but it's still there. A standard gang from the initial release is potentially weaker than a gang with the newer extras added.
Cursed City is the ultimate case study in why GW bringing back Mordheim would be a bad idea. It would be pushed with this huge, expensive boxed set, everyone would get excited, it would sell out in less than a minute, and then GW would pretend it never existed for several months. And between then and its rerelease, all enthusiasm for the game would die, with no one caring anymore. Even if that particular sequence didn't happen again, because of unique circumstances having to do with supply chain issues...do you really want anything similar to that happening to Mordheim? I certainly don't.
I do not look forward to the prospect of another avenue GW would take to try and sell me another $4-500 worth of books. They did that with the new Necromunda....and I immediately started running it with GrimDark Fire Fight from OPR. GW relaunching a "dead" (but alive) game is like directors making a "new" version of their classic works - with changes nobody asked for. The POD version of the book is a genius idea. They get the money but otherwise keep their hands off of it.
Based on the lore setup for AoS 4th Ed, I could see Warcry moving into a more "explore the ruins" style game that could add in more verticality. I think that would be a more natural evolution than trying to restart Mordheim.
I think the irony of current day GW bringing Mordheim back would be an exercise in watching them bring a "dead game" back just to kill it once over, if you get me?
Lots of people in the MESBG community are quite happy GW doesn’t lavish a lot of attention of their game, so no constant rule changes or rapidly changing miniature range. Regarding Mordheim I think GW might be tempted to do what they did with Necromunda and streamline the old rules for modern tastes. The old guard could still maintain the original game as some Necromunda players still do.
We've seen the complete dog's breakfast they made of the Necromunda revival. (Is it three or four revisions of the rule set we're up to at this point? Why are there a dozen 96 page sourcebooks for a skirmish game? And what even is a sub-editor?) I'm pretty sure that modern GW don't have the writing, editing, or model sculpting chops to bring out an updated Mordheim that does justice to the original.
Print on demand is a great idea for this. I would also suggest this for the warhammer historical books. The Old West ones are like gold dust these days.
Burrows and Badgers is a streamlined version of Mordhiem. If you want to piss off everybody in your group, run Dwarf treasure hunters with blunderbusses and magic carpets.
I work at the convention center/hotel that you had your event. The day before I had cleared out some space in my closet and found a bunch of flames of war stuff I hadn't finished and I was going to throw it out but I walked by the rooms you guys were in and took a peak and it reignited my interest in the hobby! Really glad to see I have a great local community for this hobby
The bottom line is the profit sharing of reprinting a game under the company flag but the need to contact and obtain permission of the game designers at the time of its original development. I think the problem of reprinting the old games of GW such as Mordheim is to get the consent of the game designers. In the case of Mordheim the 3 designers were Alessio Cavatore, Tuomas Pirinen, and Rick Priestley and all 3 must legally give permission for reprint and details such as profit sharing. In the case of Blood Bowl, Jervis Johnson has given the ok and he is still involved so re printing it was not an issue. So getting over the legal consent and then deal with who gets what percentage is the main hurdle . Its not as easy as people claim because in the end is all about money, its a business. Hobby and gaming second. Best wishes to you and Mordheim fans.
Funny enough, Bombshell Miniatures just finished a Kickstarter for two fantasy skirmish warband .stl's, one are fighting nuns with big hammers and the other are rat men.
If they do something with mordheim it would turn out like bloodbowl: re-release the mini and rules with some changes, than make a complete overhaul with the folowing edition, completely changing the way it's played and felt by the player.
In Italy we are lucky enough to have an amazing community of Mordheim that has been constantly colaborating with Tuomas Pirinen over the years to keep the game alive . They published a rulebook, corrected and updated with new warbands, available for free. They also promote the game in every events with amazing tables and tournaments.
There's also something to be said about a "dead system" - meaning a system that's not going to be altered and updated. Which is why I think a lot of players go back to the older editions of D&D etc. They should do the same to Second Edition 40K. Which also seems to be getting a bit of a renaissance with the OldHammer movement. I know I would love to dig my old Eldar Codex up, and start playing Second Edition again. With or without new models, who cares? Let's just have fun again. Oh and a Mordheim 2.0 would be "High Prices, Low Stock, and not as fun as it used to be"
@@nutherefurlong Nostalgia for the most part. The game was a lot more silly and colorful then. Which I think is a large part of why OldHammer likes it too.
@@TheAurgelmir Were they also a bit simpler too? My main experience was with 1st edition, when someone just wrote down some rules on a piece of paper and we just sort of guessed. 2nd was maybe their first chance to pull all the stuff they learned from Rogue Trader and supplements into something cohesive? I dunno
@@nutherefurlong To be honest, I was a kid back then, and English wasn't my first language. Those rules were complicated man! I don't think they were particularly simpler than editions that came later. Especially considering 8th Edition "dumbed down" the rules a lot.
Just started putting together a Mordheim table with my 9 year old. Best thing GW can do with Mordheim is officially open-source it and make the artwork and models public domain. Then everyone can print and play.
I found it interesting how GW promoted Talisman on WarCom the other week. It’s the first time I’ve seen them promote a game that’s manufactured by a different company even though the rules are technically theirs (historically). I feel it would be nice to do something similar with mordheim. Have a made to order run of the rules ( and even keep them in stock at warhammer world), an anniversary figure, and potentially just use some of the underworlds kits and or home brew. They could even bring back scratch building terrain tutorials into White dwarf etc.
GW still owns Talisman (plus I think Fury of Dracula and the other games mentioned in that article), they just license it out along with the RPG lines. Before Avalon Hill, Fantasy Flight held the licence to most of GW's catalogue and made 4th ed Talisman, with so many expansions I thought it was a living card-game version. Talisman seems to be among the first of the old licensed stuff besides RPGs to come out anew, so GW will want it to do well for the sake of more interest in the remaining things they have.
We're doing a Mordheim store campaign starting in July at Board Bard Games in Portland, OR. There's so much enthusiasm for the game and people are hyped! It's still one of my favorite GW games.
I don't know. Necromunda seems to be going pretty well, and I like what they have done with that setting. I wouldn't mind the same to happen to Mordheim.
The old GW games are that kind of games for which almost nobody complain. Also it seems that Battlefleet Gothic is doing well. I suppose because almost anything can be printed and GW isn't changing rules.
A couple tangential points: First, I find I have moved away from GW games due to the constant edition cycles, rule bloat, increased costs, and decreased availability. I now prefer simpler rulesets. Second, I recently purchased Space Station Zero (PDF version). Making new terrain, kits and home-made, has sparked a new excitement for me. The print-on-demand was tempting, but with exchange and shipping, it would have cost about double. Third, I wonder if Frostgrave wouldn't scratch the same itch for Mordheim if people cannot find the original game.
Mordheim was released in 1999. It was in print for about 10 years. It was never lost popularity but because of the spotty support the online community adopted it and have produced a lot of really good fan content. The online community is very active.
Devs and Dice is awesome- a #1 go-to for making Mordheim terrain. And I love his intros. One of the biggest sells of Mordheim is its the antithesis of modem GW’s potted world and cookie-cutter forces.
I just started playing Mordheim, our group created their own made to order book from the community rulebook, nice color hardcover. Finding cool models and ressources online is super easy as well.
I dont remember how far back it was exactly, but I remember in an issue of White Dwarf that was probably pre-2000 rules for Chaos Warbands. As I recall the whole idea was to randomly roll up a skirmish band of Chaos minis and you used their standard troop profile. Then it was similar to Mordheim where you gained glory and spent gold to add to the warband, models got upgrades and promotions, or you were blessed/cursed by the gods and turned into a chaos spawn. The system was either intentionally or easily converted into applying to all other armies. You could have used the rules to make a skirmishing band of three high elf archers, a handmaiden of the everqueen, and two white lions. Or five dwarf ironbreakers and two thunderers. Or maybe like 10 gobbos with spears and a black orc. It was existing models with existing rules...which is why its like will never be seen again. It was a fun new way to play with models you already had or to buy a new army piece-meal out of the little two model blister packs they used to sell. They didnt manufacture a new $160 USD box and then push more $60 USD warbands and terrain kits that you "needed".
@@kidcthulhufortney1320 That sounds about right. I want to say it was around the time of the big Archaon storyline...wasn't there some big collaborative campaign and the results were supposed to be all about the players around the world playing games...and then GW didn't like the results and kinda handwaved the result they wanted?
The Realm of Chaos books (Slaves to Darkness, Lost & Damned) had something like that too. Plus a Sensei band that was basically secret freedom fighters, possessed by a splinter of the Emperor's warp soul.
I really loved my time on Tom Boring's Mordheim Forum. Border Town Burning, Styrofoam Kings stuff (Sartosa?) and i had my Southlands setting. Sadly i just never had enough playtesters for my stuff.
I played Mordheim with 15mm from several manufacturers. "Guy with a sword and a pistol" doesn't have to cost $8. The trouble is you have to buy a whole set for $8 so you have more models than you can fit in a Mordheim game. Alas!
I think Cursed City was GWs attempt at an AOS Mordheim. And we all know how well that went. I think the absolute best thatcGW could do for something similar is to do a season of Warcry in a devastated city, and add a robust campaign mode. Other than that, keep actual Mordheim as it's own thing quietly gathering dust in the GW vaults. :)
There is also warmaster, another abandoned game from GW that has a passionate and dedicated community keeping it alive, and with 3d printing there are some amazing armies you can get for pretty cheap. It's very quickly become one of my favorite miniatures games.
If we held on to necromunda as tightly as some people are holding onto Mordhiem we would be missing out on so much. Oldmunda and Newmunda are fun for very different reasons.
I agree 100%. Games workshop could make a lot of money, releasing all of their old publications through print on demand. All the old white dwarf, magazines, fanatic, town cryer, even older additions of the game. Just like wizards of the coast, put it up and forget about it just collect the money.
Great to see so many people still engaged with Mordheim! It does my heart good!! Here is a simple rules run through for people interested in getting into Mordheim, but who might not know where to start: m.th-cam.com/video/_qkKo07Odl0/w-d-xo.html&pp=iAQB
You successfully baited me into believing GW is bringing Mordheim back (aka killing the scene). Got pretty damned horrified at the notion, because we have a solid Mordheim culture going, with OOP hunts, modeling groups and campaigns. I don't want it to suffer what happened to Fantasy scene.
The only thing that Games Workshop have to do with Mordheim is re-release old miniatures, cause sometimes is a bit hard to make a band of skavens with guns or a good portrait of 10 Reikland mercenaries with current AoS miniatures. If they try to launch a new Mordheim, people will just ignore it and keep playing the old one.
Got in a demo of Mordheim at TMX. A great experienice and just in time for the Chicago Skirmish Wargames' campaign that started a week later. Mordheim is fantastic as is its sister game Original Necromunda. It's surprisingly fast to play, easy to learn and a ton of fun. I agree that GW should leave Mordheim alone but I don't care if they do. If GW does to Mordheim what they did to Necromunda, we'll just continue on with original Mordheim, the same way we still prefer OG Necromunda to the bloated mess of N17. There's enough Mordhiem and Original Necromunda material (rules, warbands, scenarios, etc) in the public domain that there's no need for new material. Dig in and Enjoy! PS The Wargames Atlantic "Conquistadores" box is basically a Mordheim Mercenaries kit.
It’s an interesting idea, rereleasing the book to whoever would like it could be the start of something more. I haven’t played Mordheim and have very little I could use to do so at the moment so a starter set would be better for somebody like me, a print on demand book would be a way to gauge interest in the game too. Playing devil’s advocate however, Blood Bowl was abandoned by GW for a long time and the community still ferociously supported the game. Since 2016 GW has been involved again and the game has gone from strength to strength with regular releases that aren’t too frequent.
Thanks. I launched a Mordheim campaign in my local gaming group. It isnthe simplest way to get into the hobby ! Everything is DIY and thats the way to do it 🎉
I play Mordheim and try to collect the vintage minis and whatnot, and also use them for Forbidden Psalm. I also think GW should stay out. The idea of updated miniatures sounds nice and all, but they would just be hard to get, a box set would cost $250 and be impossible to get, the rules would be spread across dozens of books and eventually they would abandon support for it like they do with all their side projects. Made to order, including made to order miniatures, are the way GW should go. They should do things tangential to Mordheim for their other games though … like a plastic kit for Old World style ruins is a smart terrain kit for them to release.
The good thing if they never redo it: we don't have to wait for three books to play the same amount of warbands as we had 25 years ago with the first / one and only Mordheim edition. If they redo it: I am pretty sure we would get, like in Necromunda 2.0, several books for core warbands and missions. Super easy games for dummies, like AOS: you always hit on 3+ and wound on 3+ or 4+ and so on . . . Movement like in Warcry: oh look, there is a wall I can't shot as it is high and thick, just jump over without penaltys . . . No one in warband really dies, just getting tired and wait for one or two rounds . . . You want to play the rat ogre or ogre bodyguard, buy the new books: big thinks in Mordheim are walking You want to play this cool Minotaur again: go and buy big things are running in Mordheim Rules for Horses will come up in the next issue at around 20$ in 6 months together with a preview for the coach . . So no, as soon as the start like that it would be the death of Mordheim I am afraid .. . Like Frostgrave, the first edition was player at our local game club, but stopped with the 2nd as death and errors didn't affect your warband as you allways get back a minimum of gangers. . . .
The best model of how to run a game system by GW is MESBG/Lord of the Rings. The rules have stayed pretty consistent throughout their life, with only some additions and clarifications. The latest rulebook didn't change anything, but only incorporated changes from errata and FAQs, completely unlike their other games. It's neglected by GW (barely any new releases in the past two years) but that's actually a strength, as proxy models have become more and more common as so many models have become difficult to obtain for newer players. I expect that Mordheim could exist within that same model. I thought that GW, when they re-released Necromunda would offer it up like they did with the original version, but instead they constantly revised the rules and kept releasing new supplements that changed the game and increased the cost to the point of killing it as far as I was concerned. I just wanted to buy the boxed set, paint up some gangs and build some terrain and play games. GW couldn't leave it alone and ruined the game by churning out new content that you had to have to play the game in it's "current" version, which of course increased the cost. I fear that Mordheim would end up the same, and I would end up disappointed for a second time.
"Every game is miniature agnostic, as soon as you stop falling for the corporation hype hoax." Seriously, that's why D&D is such a let down for Hasbro, it just cannot be monetized the way Magic is. Because what do we need: Paper, pencil, dice.
I've been playing and running Mordheim campaigns since the game's introduction in the fall of 1999. To this day, it's my absolute favorite fantasy skirmish game. It's adaptable (any fantasy models can be used), easy to play, and its campaign mode is phenomenal. In addition, there's a treasure trove of source material available for free to make some truly fantastic scenarios and campaigns.
I know that some folks are big fans of what GW has done with Blood Bowl, but honestly I really preferred it when that was a "dead" game. It wasn't actually dead of course, but was thriving thanks to a very active and well-organized player community, with model support from a varied range of 3rd party miniature companies. It did not need GW to "resurrect" it. And after they did, Blood Bowl went from having the entire ruleset in a stable state, available as a single PDF, to requiring a confusing morass of multiple books and products and supplements that got quarterly updates so you had to spend more time just keeping up with the new rules than you actually spent playing the damn game. Sometimes "dead" is better.
Cursed City was the setting that should have been Mordheim 2.0, but GW dropped the ball on the whole thing. Now my big fear would be an Old World situation where GW would release updated Mordheim rules, and repackage ancient models for high prices.
I've been a roleplayer for 20+ years and I've been thinking about getting into skirmish games (especially Mordheim) for a while now, and at the start of the year I finally managed to start playing with a group of great guys and start crafting terrain to make my own board. I love this game a lot, love the possibilities it has, and also that there is no FOMO with this game, no new editions every 3 years no new warbands and new rules (like with WH Underworlds), so a perfect game for me, who is working, has two kids and can invest not that much time and money into my hobby. So yeah, GW definitely should leave this game be, love the community around it, love that I can come up with any solution for a warband I like, there is no pressure, just the gaming experience, which is amazing.
I love how GW is supporting Necromunda these days and I would absolutely love for them to do the same with Mordheim. I always regretted not getting into Mordheim back when I first got into Warhammer, and I don’t really have the time or desire to cobble it all together myself nowadays. Here’s hoping GW re-releases it soon!
GW did a print on demand with Rogue Trader. It was a pre-order deal so you had to decide to buy it while the order window was open and then they made as many as needed and shipped them out. So they could do that with Mordheim. It would give people a shot at getting a hardcopy the rule book. I'd snag a copy.
Mordheim has been pretty popular in my area - but that is New England, home of NEMO. My local group is about 70-80% 3D printed, as is the terrain. (Mordheim terrain was how I got into 3D printing in the first place.) There are companies that seem to specialize in Mordheim - Reptilian Overlords and Vae Victis coming quickly to mind.
Mordheim - absolutely loved it at the time. It was just a game that captured your imagination thanks to the mood the rulebook. Wonderful minis also helped of course. That being said - I've not played it in ten years despite still having tote bins of the original scenery and painted gangs in carry cases. When GW rereleased Blood Bowl back in 2016, "We're doing fine without you - leave us alone" was very much my sentiment. Eight years later, GW are still supporting Blood Bowl, even recently releasing a brand new gnome team for it. It is absolutely different to how we were playing in 2015. But the game has a massive influx of new players along with it. The last Blood Bowl World Cup tournament in Spain had over 2200 players take part. So if GW did bring Mordheim back and properly support it with scenery, new warbands, rulebooks, etc; who knows. Maybe it would carry on being played in another 25 years for the 50th anniversary.
Blood Bowl was a lot better when GW wasn't supporting it, though. The new rules changes are mostly terrible and most of the new teams they've added aren't very good, either. They're far more focused on making and selling new minis than making the game rules good.
the thing I fear the most about a Mordheim remake is that it would end up like kill team. What began as "you probably have 10-15 dudes from your faction of choice already" turned into "oh, you need multiples of this 40 bucks box in order to play this team" with a quickness. if they started adding bespoke warbands, it would render our old collections useless and make the game expensive at the same time.
Why not... why not both? GW should release "Ulfenkarn", with a modern activation based ruleset minis, terrain and all that sh...stuff, and at the same time release a hardcover Mordheim anniversary rulebook (with towncrier and the expansion included) like they did with Rogue Trader?
I'm new to wargaming and ive been playing 5th edition 40k with my brother on Tabletop Simulator and its been a blast, way more fun and straightforward then trying to learn 10th edition and dealing with those insane prices i hope soon i can learn how to make terrain and find how to get 3d printed minis for solid price soon so i can enjoy the game for real physically.
Agree 100%. As someone who somewhat recently lost all of my Mordheim stuff due to a fire, I'd quite happily pay for a POD version of the Mordheim rules.
I agree! The Digital version is very fun and in the “Spirit” of the original game! I have the Xbox version. Its not perfect, but what digital game is without its flaws. The campaigns in it are great too, but I love the straight Skirmish mode!! Skaven!
Back in 2017 when Necromunda was brought back I was looking forward to GW doing the same thing with Mordheim. At that point I was just playing the Mordheim City of the Damned video game and I was sooooo into it. The game might not be that great, but I would call it my guilty pleasure, if only I would feel guilty about it :) Fast forward a couple of years, I’ve met some wonderful people and right now we are playing the original Mordheim on our own. Most of our miniatures are from Warcry or WH Underworlds, because the bespoke miniatures for these games are just amazing. Most of my Skaven warband consists of WHU minis, the Eshin assassins couldn’t be more „Mordheimy”. Anyway, that changed my mind, I saw how the community cares for that game, how everything is archived and organized and I wouldn’t want to see GW getting back to Mordheim only to bring down pages like Broheim.
GW should do absolutely nothing, Mordheim has a life (after death) of it's own. Updated and living rule books are available online and as PDFs (which you can print at home or at a local print shop).
Mordheim dragged me kicking and screaming away from mass battle games to skirmish games, and I'll love it forever for that! I'm so happy to see so much interest in this venerable game 25 years later, thanks for the video! I would love to see GW reprint the Town Cryer books while they were at it... if they ever moved to print on demand.
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The main problem is "classic Mordheim" community grew with a mentality that goes against current GW practicies: DIY tutorials, "cheap" models, kitbashing, conversions, ¡free downloadable content at the end! And in this last twenty years fans have made revisions, updates, shared everything... I'm even practicing to make a wiki app for Mordheim!
Yeah, they could sell new things but the community is beyond GW at this point. And that's a good thing.
LOVE the idea of a Mordheim Wiki! 😀
Folk like you are one of the reasons the Mordheim community is so awesome!
@@benjihound993 Thank you. I hope to have something "workable" by September, at the moment I'm building the database and testing things in Python to make an interface like the old desktop encyclopedia software.
The idea is to add in the future list building options and a "campaign chronicle", with options to select how many rules to use (only Mordheim with revisions, add Empire in flames, upload revised "hombrew" rules...).
The recent Necromunda reboot seems to hold to most of those values (excluding having official free rules) - which I think is one of the benefits of it not being produced by the main studios.
@@redscope897 First, by cheap model I mean the original release, not current prices on Ebay nor the talk about "if we adjust for inflation GW prices aren't that high", specially because adquisiton power has gone down in the last 20 years.
Second, most of the people in my circle use models from other systems in addition to old and, yes, new GW models. I'm not saying "Mordheim models would not sell", I'm saying "GW trying to gain control and direct the evolution of Mordeim would not work".
Of course, experience may vary depending were you live (Canary Islands and Catalonia in my case). I have bought second hand models for 6-10 euros, wich is an aceptble price for old metal miniatures in my opinion, and when I sell I try to use those prices.
Do people spend a lot of money making tables specifically for Mordheim? Yes. And the most impressive ones I've seen use ZERO Games Workshop terrain, all foamboard, balsa wood, patience and effort.
Again, I'm not trying to deny your experience, my BIL and I always joke about how many children would go without presents the Christmas GW rerelease the original Mordheim box.
@@kayosiiii Yeah, but it seems having so many rulebooks is making it less popular in my part of the city, haven't found anyone that plays. I was thinking of kitbashing a venator band but I'm at a loss in what I need to check to know how to building/playing them.
Not going to lie... I kind of just screamed out in joy! Thank you so much! Also huge fan! 👍😅 13:18
... And we truly admire your work, Leif. Such an inspiration🦾🤟
I personally love your "silly intros"!
Love your channel, Leif! I do not play Mordheim currently but I have used a bunch of your tutorials to make terrain for my Pathfinder and Fantasy Wargaming boards!
Love your videos Leif! You have been and remain my primary tutor in terrain building for this game.
The man himself
Boromir said it best: Mordheim has no GW. Mordheim needs no GW. 😂
GW is no Aragorn either.
one doesn't simply do the hobby 😅
The oddest think one encounters, and realizes, that some of the best games in the tabletop hobby are the dead games no one is in control over and messing with.
Same with any kind of media
They are not dead, if people still play them. They are just Unsupported as they are no longer sold by a producer.
I loved Mordheim back in the day. I had a Skaven band in which my Rat Ogre and Assassin were painted as Pinky and Brain.
Honestly print on demand for older black library books would also be great for them. Especially because they seem to only care about hard back specail editions. GW is massive and yet leave so Much money on the table.
Given the Black Library books represent one of the easiest and more approachable ways to get into Warhammer, it's weird their books aren't constantly kept in print. Maybe not the more obscure ones, obviously. But things like Gaunt's Ghosts, the Eisenhorn books, etc.
No, not regular black library releases something like "Signed by the author, featuring a screen-printed canvas cover, ribbon bookmark, an afterword by the author, and the additional short story..." And whatever GW can get away -minimal work, just an alt cover- with their special edition codexes
But yeah it's hard to recommend something you enjoyed because it's shop timeframe is pitiful by the time it arrives in your country and read it it's been sold out for months
legit half the books ive looked up were out of print, it is insane how much it seems like gw just doesnt want to make money
There's a weird mindset of being a greedy company but also wanting their products to be seen as luxurious so they're fine with leaving money on the table. They leave money on the table everywhere bc they want it to be a prestigious upper middle class hobby.
Mordheim was released in 1999 making this year its 25th Anniversary. It would make business sense for GeeDubs to release Mordheim as a Made to Order basis. No risk for them. Major nostalgia for their customers.
If they brought it back as was I would spend serious money on getting those warbands that where shiney new when I was 9.
Yeah. Zero changes. They get to renew their claim on the IP, the players get to keep their game. Everyone wins.
This would be the smartest way to do it. and like @benjaminpowers609 said, it renews their IP claim. But even releasing the old Empire Militia box, a box of the classic Skaven, and a few of the other warbands, as Made to Order sets, would go a long way with the "Oldheim" people with nostalgia for this game.
@@Spark_Chaser I suspect empire militia will return with the old world.
At least that's what I hope
@@Spark_Chaser and bring back the classic “hairy head sprue.”
It`s so enlightening when all you want from the creators of your favourite game is for them to stay away from it, forget about its existence and let it dead so we can enjoy it.
Technically, only the pubblisher is the same.
No one who worked on the rules would actually be involved in any shape or form to the project, probably
If you look online, it takes minutes to find updated Mordheim rules & resources. Get a 3D printer (or find suitable minis) online and it will be a lot cheaper than getting into a mythical GW remake with all the current 'issues' they love to pre-load their games with nowadays.
That "get a junior designer to scan in the rulebook" idea's something I know they've done before - Louise Sugden's talked about how they had her do that with the original Slaves to Darkness book, but they only sell those (StD, Lost and the Damned and Rogue Trader) as hardcovers that you can only get at their events or Warhammer World, so I don't know if they'd relinquish the publishing to a Print on Demand service.
They should - they’d make a lot more money - selling books with little to no effort and THEN selling more paints and models and whatnot. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions But then they can't generate FOMO sales, like when I shelled out way too much for a Rogue Trader reprint last year 🤣
Mordheim came out in 99, I got it on my 14th birthday and it’s to date the best birthday present I’ve ever gotten. It’s such a brilliant game, and some on the balance issues can make it ever more fun at times. The setting is great. The artwork is great. The community is greater. I agree all we need is the book to be reprintable so new players can get in on the action.
That being said I’d love some GW plastic terrain for it cos I’m a self confessed GW fanboy for life, 25 years and counting.
GW should just add all their old books to Drivethrurpg. I mean they won't, but it would be awesome.
Yeah, long term revenue is not on GW's menu today. It's all about that sweet sweet short term profit margin.
They only like it if they can keep 100% of the profits. They don't like sharing income with any other companies.
@@WisePenguin007 Sweet, sweet FOMO!
For great buildings, ruined or otherwise, do remember the manufacturers of laser cut mdf, life TTCombat and Sarissa Precision among many others.
Also, Battlesystems; for sturdy, full colour, card terrain.
@@euansmith3699 those look great, I will give them a try.
100% on board with this. Print on demand Black Library as well please
Shhhhhh, don’t make noise. The gw zombie lawyers will hear, and come for us. Let us enjoy our old games in peace.
I feel like this video is secretly "Why GW should leave miniature wargaming alone", but I'm here for it!
I'm into sci-fi at the moment, but Rangers of Shadow Deep, Frostgrave, Mordheim and Deth Wizards certainly make fantasy skirmish games seem very appealing!
There are scifi skirmish games as well, like Stargrave or Space Station Zero.
@@jsharpw4 Absolutely, I just got the Stargrave book the other day. Now I just have to convince my buddies to buy and paint a crew of their own!
Devs&Dice is phenomenal and the intros are pure gold. I love the main content but always laugh along with the intros. I hope they never change. 😃
To tell how fine the community is doing - in my country where we have certain legal freedoms a group of people translated and printed Mordheim books unofficially. Hard cover, nice gloss paper. Sold quite well from what I can tell
My friends and I just spent 5 days playing Mordheim for its 25th anniversary. We are all from Memphis and a few of them are former GW employees. We got together to celebrate one friend's recent marriage and played games in an ABnB. We used scratch built, 3d printed, and GW terrain and models. We had a blast playing Mordheim because we love its simple yet fun gameplay and after action minigame.
Essentially it's a trust issue; we love Mordheim, please don't mess it up with a re-release. We don't need new releases each week and power creep. Also, Frostgrave is Mordheim+. Nice video.
@@GabCampbell As I understand it Necromunda has had books released for each gang with new models that make gangs considerably stronger, not least because they provide more options for each gang. That sounds like gangs getting more powerful provided you buy more releases, be they books and/or models. The trickle of releases might be slow, but it's still there. A standard gang from the initial release is potentially weaker than a gang with the newer extras added.
I thought at the time that the vampire city would be the new morthheim....
That was my reaction as well. Looks like a missed opportunity. Reminds me of the other Warhammer Quest games and also Blackstone Fortress.
Cursed City is the ultimate case study in why GW bringing back Mordheim would be a bad idea. It would be pushed with this huge, expensive boxed set, everyone would get excited, it would sell out in less than a minute, and then GW would pretend it never existed for several months. And between then and its rerelease, all enthusiasm for the game would die, with no one caring anymore.
Even if that particular sequence didn't happen again, because of unique circumstances having to do with supply chain issues...do you really want anything similar to that happening to Mordheim? I certainly don't.
Yes. And then GW killed it.
I do not look forward to the prospect of another avenue GW would take to try and sell me another $4-500 worth of books. They did that with the new Necromunda....and I immediately started running it with GrimDark Fire Fight from OPR. GW relaunching a "dead" (but alive) game is like directors making a "new" version of their classic works - with changes nobody asked for. The POD version of the book is a genius idea. They get the money but otherwise keep their hands off of it.
Based on the lore setup for AoS 4th Ed, I could see Warcry moving into a more "explore the ruins" style game that could add in more verticality. I think that would be a more natural evolution than trying to restart Mordheim.
I think the irony of current day GW bringing Mordheim back would be an exercise in watching them bring a "dead game" back just to kill it once over, if you get me?
Lots of people in the MESBG community are quite happy GW doesn’t lavish a lot of attention of their game, so no constant rule changes or rapidly changing miniature range. Regarding Mordheim I think GW might be tempted to do what they did with Necromunda and streamline the old rules for modern tastes. The old guard could still maintain the original game as some Necromunda players still do.
I was hoping you'd name drop Devs and Dice. Leif's Mordheim stuff is top tier, and he's a really fun guy.
We've seen the complete dog's breakfast they made of the Necromunda revival. (Is it three or four revisions of the rule set we're up to at this point? Why are there a dozen 96 page sourcebooks for a skirmish game? And what even is a sub-editor?) I'm pretty sure that modern GW don't have the writing, editing, or model sculpting chops to bring out an updated Mordheim that does justice to the original.
There are 3 edition on 6 different books (for the main rules only).
Plus basically a codex for every gang available.
@@17blaziken And the 4-5 "Books of..." (Peril, Ruin, Judgement, Outcast, Outlands) and three books for a single metaplot campaign.
Print on demand is a great idea for this. I would also suggest this for the warhammer historical books. The Old West ones are like gold dust these days.
Burrows and Badgers is a streamlined version of Mordhiem. If you want to piss off everybody in your group, run Dwarf treasure hunters with blunderbusses and magic carpets.
This guys got some ideas
You had me at "blunderbusses & magic carpets".
As a fan of Burrows and Badgers, saying it’s Streamlined Mordheim is a compliment to the game, but and an insult to the job its creators did.
I was about to mention B&B. Great game and models
Sadly, lots of stuff out of stock though :( I saw it recommended a few weeks back, and the starter sets were out of stock...
I was at Warhammer World today and in the store they have a Mordheim display of warbands converted from current miniatures. It was really cool.
As an old retired wargamer, i'm still wondering between Frostgrave or Mordheim to come back to the game with my children!
I work at the convention center/hotel that you had your event. The day before I had cleared out some space in my closet and found a bunch of flames of war stuff I hadn't finished and I was going to throw it out but I walked by the rooms you guys were in and took a peak and it reignited my interest in the hobby! Really glad to see I have a great local community for this hobby
The bottom line is the profit sharing of reprinting a game under the company flag but the need to contact and obtain permission of the game designers at the time of its original development. I think the problem of reprinting the old games of GW such as Mordheim is to get the consent of the game designers. In the case of Mordheim the 3 designers were Alessio Cavatore, Tuomas Pirinen, and Rick Priestley and all 3 must legally give permission for reprint and details such as profit sharing.
In the case of Blood Bowl, Jervis Johnson has given the ok and he is still involved so re printing it was not an issue.
So getting over the legal consent and then deal with who gets what percentage is the main hurdle . Its not as easy as people claim because in the end is all about money, its a business. Hobby and gaming second.
Best wishes to you and Mordheim fans.
Funny enough, Bombshell Miniatures just finished a Kickstarter for two fantasy skirmish warband .stl's, one are fighting nuns with big hammers and the other are rat men.
I like Frostgrave. Rules set is pretty simple and you can do all the DIY and Kitbashing you want.
If they do something with mordheim it would turn out like bloodbowl: re-release the mini and rules with some changes, than make a complete overhaul with the folowing edition, completely changing the way it's played and felt by the player.
In Italy we are lucky enough to have an amazing community of Mordheim that has been constantly colaborating with Tuomas Pirinen over the years to keep the game alive .
They published a rulebook, corrected and updated with new warbands, available for free. They also promote the game in every events with amazing tables and tournaments.
There's also something to be said about a "dead system" - meaning a system that's not going to be altered and updated. Which is why I think a lot of players go back to the older editions of D&D etc.
They should do the same to Second Edition 40K. Which also seems to be getting a bit of a renaissance with the OldHammer movement.
I know I would love to dig my old Eldar Codex up, and start playing Second Edition again. With or without new models, who cares? Let's just have fun again.
Oh and a Mordheim 2.0 would be "High Prices, Low Stock, and not as fun as it used to be"
old Eldar Codex, same Eldar Models.....
What about second edition do you think is appealing compared to other editions?
@@nutherefurlong Nostalgia for the most part. The game was a lot more silly and colorful then.
Which I think is a large part of why OldHammer likes it too.
@@TheAurgelmir Were they also a bit simpler too? My main experience was with 1st edition, when someone just wrote down some rules on a piece of paper and we just sort of guessed. 2nd was maybe their first chance to pull all the stuff they learned from Rogue Trader and supplements into something cohesive? I dunno
@@nutherefurlong To be honest, I was a kid back then, and English wasn't my first language. Those rules were complicated man!
I don't think they were particularly simpler than editions that came later. Especially considering 8th Edition "dumbed down" the rules a lot.
Just started putting together a Mordheim table with my 9 year old. Best thing GW can do with Mordheim is officially open-source it and make the artwork and models public domain. Then everyone can print and play.
I found it interesting how GW promoted Talisman on WarCom the other week. It’s the first time I’ve seen them promote a game that’s manufactured by a different company even though the rules are technically theirs (historically). I feel it would be nice to do something similar with mordheim. Have a made to order run of the rules ( and even keep them in stock at warhammer world), an anniversary figure, and potentially just use some of the underworlds kits and or home brew. They could even bring back scratch building terrain tutorials into White dwarf etc.
GW still owns Talisman (plus I think Fury of Dracula and the other games mentioned in that article), they just license it out along with the RPG lines. Before Avalon Hill, Fantasy Flight held the licence to most of GW's catalogue and made 4th ed Talisman, with so many expansions I thought it was a living card-game version. Talisman seems to be among the first of the old licensed stuff besides RPGs to come out anew, so GW will want it to do well for the sake of more interest in the remaining things they have.
We're doing a Mordheim store campaign starting in July at Board Bard Games in Portland, OR. There's so much enthusiasm for the game and people are hyped! It's still one of my favorite GW games.
I don't know. Necromunda seems to be going pretty well, and I like what they have done with that setting. I wouldn't mind the same to happen to Mordheim.
The old GW games are that kind of games for which almost nobody complain. Also it seems that Battlefleet Gothic is doing well. I suppose because almost anything can be printed and GW isn't changing rules.
A couple tangential points:
First, I find I have moved away from GW games due to the constant edition cycles, rule bloat, increased costs, and decreased availability.
I now prefer simpler rulesets.
Second, I recently purchased Space Station Zero (PDF version). Making new terrain, kits and home-made, has sparked a new excitement for me. The print-on-demand was tempting, but with exchange and shipping, it would have cost about double.
Third, I wonder if Frostgrave wouldn't scratch the same itch for Mordheim if people cannot find the original game.
Mordheim was released in 1999. It was in print for about 10 years. It was never lost popularity but because of the spotty support the online community adopted it and have produced a lot of really good fan content. The online community is very active.
You don't want GW anywhere near Mordheim. That would be a disaster.
I agree and have similar feelings about Battlefleet Gothic. Don't want a new set of models in a new imbiggened scale.
Devs and Dice is awesome- a #1 go-to for making Mordheim terrain. And I love his intros.
One of the biggest sells of Mordheim is its the antithesis of modem GW’s potted world and cookie-cutter forces.
1:00 I was at PAX Unplugged when they brought that ship along. 3D printing that giant ship and using it as terrain is such a good idea.
In Poland, we upgraded Mordheim into Warheim, with more than 60 warbands and better balance. This game still rocks
I just started playing Mordheim, our group created their own made to order book from the community rulebook, nice color hardcover. Finding cool models and ressources online is super easy as well.
Got a link for that book?
Would also appreciate a link to this!
I dont remember how far back it was exactly, but I remember in an issue of White Dwarf that was probably pre-2000 rules for Chaos Warbands. As I recall the whole idea was to randomly roll up a skirmish band of Chaos minis and you used their standard troop profile. Then it was similar to Mordheim where you gained glory and spent gold to add to the warband, models got upgrades and promotions, or you were blessed/cursed by the gods and turned into a chaos spawn. The system was either intentionally or easily converted into applying to all other armies. You could have used the rules to make a skirmishing band of three high elf archers, a handmaiden of the everqueen, and two white lions. Or five dwarf ironbreakers and two thunderers. Or maybe like 10 gobbos with spears and a black orc.
It was existing models with existing rules...which is why its like will never be seen again. It was a fun new way to play with models you already had or to buy a new army piece-meal out of the little two model blister packs they used to sell. They didnt manufacture a new $160 USD box and then push more $60 USD warbands and terrain kits that you "needed".
I believe that was Path To Glory.
@@kidcthulhufortney1320 That sounds about right. I want to say it was around the time of the big Archaon storyline...wasn't there some big collaborative campaign and the results were supposed to be all about the players around the world playing games...and then GW didn't like the results and kinda handwaved the result they wanted?
The Realm of Chaos books (Slaves to Darkness, Lost & Damned) had something like that too. Plus a Sensei band that was basically secret freedom fighters, possessed by a splinter of the Emperor's warp soul.
I really loved my time on Tom Boring's Mordheim Forum. Border Town Burning, Styrofoam Kings stuff (Sartosa?) and i had my Southlands setting. Sadly i just never had enough playtesters for my stuff.
I played Mordheim with 15mm from several manufacturers. "Guy with a sword and a pistol" doesn't have to cost $8. The trouble is you have to buy a whole set for $8 so you have more models than you can fit in a Mordheim game. Alas!
I think Cursed City was GWs attempt at an AOS Mordheim. And we all know how well that went. I think the absolute best thatcGW could do for something similar is to do a season of Warcry in a devastated city, and add a robust campaign mode.
Other than that, keep actual Mordheim as it's own thing quietly gathering dust in the GW vaults. :)
There is also warmaster, another abandoned game from GW that has a passionate and dedicated community keeping it alive, and with 3d printing there are some amazing armies you can get for pretty cheap. It's very quickly become one of my favorite miniatures games.
If we held on to necromunda as tightly as some people are holding onto Mordhiem we would be missing out on so much. Oldmunda and Newmunda are fun for very different reasons.
You know, Mordheim was literally the only GW game I didn’t buy in the 90s.
Kinda regret that.
I agree 100%. Games workshop could make a lot of money, releasing all of their old publications through print on demand. All the old white dwarf, magazines, fanatic, town cryer, even older additions of the game. Just like wizards of the coast, put it up and forget about it just collect the money.
Mordhiem rules and supplements are easy to find as free pdf online. I've been playing since it first came out. Still love it.
Great to see so many people still engaged with Mordheim! It does my heart good!!
Here is a simple rules run through for people interested in getting into Mordheim, but who might not know where to start: m.th-cam.com/video/_qkKo07Odl0/w-d-xo.html&pp=iAQB
You successfully baited me into believing GW is bringing Mordheim back (aka killing the scene).
Got pretty damned horrified at the notion, because we have a solid Mordheim culture going, with OOP hunts, modeling groups and campaigns. I don't want it to suffer what happened to Fantasy scene.
The only thing that Games Workshop have to do with Mordheim is re-release old miniatures, cause sometimes is a bit hard to make a band of skavens with guns or a good portrait of 10 Reikland mercenaries with current AoS miniatures.
If they try to launch a new Mordheim, people will just ignore it and keep playing the old one.
So glad you gave Leif a shoutout! He's underfollowed for the quality of his content!
Hey dude! Devs and Dice intros are not silly… every episode is awesome!
I enjoy them, I just wanted to let new viewers know that the entire video’s not like that. Hit channel is spectacular! Thanks for watching!
Devs & Dice is great; Summon Lesser Maker is doing Mordheim builds too and giving away stl files for terrain detail bits, worth checking those out
Blogs are coming back!
Agreed, I've been rediscovering my love of blogs, so much good stuff there.
Got in a demo of Mordheim at TMX. A great experienice and just in time for the Chicago Skirmish Wargames' campaign that started a week later. Mordheim is fantastic as is its sister game Original Necromunda. It's surprisingly fast to play, easy to learn and a ton of fun.
I agree that GW should leave Mordheim alone but I don't care if they do. If GW does to Mordheim what they did to Necromunda, we'll just continue on with original Mordheim, the same way we still prefer OG Necromunda to the bloated mess of N17.
There's enough Mordhiem and Original Necromunda material (rules, warbands, scenarios, etc) in the public domain that there's no need for new material.
Dig in and Enjoy!
PS The Wargames Atlantic "Conquistadores" box is basically a Mordheim Mercenaries kit.
It’s an interesting idea, rereleasing the book to whoever would like it could be the start of something more. I haven’t played Mordheim and have very little I could use to do so at the moment so a starter set would be better for somebody like me, a print on demand book would be a way to gauge interest in the game too.
Playing devil’s advocate however, Blood Bowl was abandoned by GW for a long time and the community still ferociously supported the game. Since 2016 GW has been involved again and the game has gone from strength to strength with regular releases that aren’t too frequent.
Ide be cool with this is they made the ordinal war bands made to order
Thanks. I launched a Mordheim campaign in my local gaming group. It isnthe simplest way to get into the hobby ! Everything is DIY and thats the way to do it 🎉
I hoped you would have done an “under the duvet, LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE” style video.
I play Mordheim and try to collect the vintage minis and whatnot, and also use them for Forbidden Psalm. I also think GW should stay out. The idea of updated miniatures sounds nice and all, but they would just be hard to get, a box set would cost $250 and be impossible to get, the rules would be spread across dozens of books and eventually they would abandon support for it like they do with all their side projects. Made to order, including made to order miniatures, are the way GW should go. They should do things tangential to Mordheim for their other games though … like a plastic kit for Old World style ruins is a smart terrain kit for them to release.
The good thing if they never redo it:
we don't have to wait for three books to play the same amount of warbands as we had 25 years ago with the first / one and only Mordheim edition.
If they redo it: I am pretty sure we would get, like in Necromunda 2.0, several books for core warbands and missions.
Super easy games for dummies, like AOS: you always hit on 3+ and wound on 3+ or 4+ and so on . . .
Movement like in Warcry: oh look, there is a wall I can't shot as it is high and thick, just jump over without penaltys . . .
No one in warband really dies, just getting tired and wait for one or two rounds . . .
You want to play the rat ogre or ogre bodyguard, buy the new books: big thinks in Mordheim are walking
You want to play this cool Minotaur again: go and buy big things are running in Mordheim
Rules for Horses will come up in the next issue at around 20$ in 6 months together with a preview for the coach . .
So no, as soon as the start like that it would be the death of Mordheim I am afraid .. .
Like Frostgrave, the first edition was player at our local game club, but stopped with the 2nd as death and errors didn't affect your warband as you allways get back a minimum of gangers. . . .
There is a Battlefleet Gothic community that’s kinda alive…
The best model of how to run a game system by GW is MESBG/Lord of the Rings. The rules have stayed pretty consistent throughout their life, with only some additions and clarifications. The latest rulebook didn't change anything, but only incorporated changes from errata and FAQs, completely unlike their other games. It's neglected by GW (barely any new releases in the past two years) but that's actually a strength, as proxy models have become more and more common as so many models have become difficult to obtain for newer players. I expect that Mordheim could exist within that same model. I thought that GW, when they re-released Necromunda would offer it up like they did with the original version, but instead they constantly revised the rules and kept releasing new supplements that changed the game and increased the cost to the point of killing it as far as I was concerned. I just wanted to buy the boxed set, paint up some gangs and build some terrain and play games. GW couldn't leave it alone and ruined the game by churning out new content that you had to have to play the game in it's "current" version, which of course increased the cost. I fear that Mordheim would end up the same, and I would end up disappointed for a second time.
The real question; honestly with Frostgrave and 5 Leagues, do we really need GW to make Mordeheim?
"Every game is miniature agnostic, as soon as you stop falling for the corporation hype hoax."
Seriously, that's why D&D is such a let down for Hasbro, it just cannot be monetized the way Magic is. Because what do we need: Paper, pencil, dice.
I've been playing and running Mordheim campaigns since the game's introduction in the fall of 1999.
To this day, it's my absolute favorite fantasy skirmish game. It's adaptable (any fantasy models can be used), easy to play, and its campaign mode is phenomenal. In addition, there's a treasure trove of source material available for free to make some truly fantastic scenarios and campaigns.
I know that some folks are big fans of what GW has done with Blood Bowl, but honestly I really preferred it when that was a "dead" game. It wasn't actually dead of course, but was thriving thanks to a very active and well-organized player community, with model support from a varied range of 3rd party miniature companies. It did not need GW to "resurrect" it. And after they did, Blood Bowl went from having the entire ruleset in a stable state, available as a single PDF, to requiring a confusing morass of multiple books and products and supplements that got quarterly updates so you had to spend more time just keeping up with the new rules than you actually spent playing the damn game.
Sometimes "dead" is better.
Comes out for month or so long campaign every year at Ringwood UK
Cursed City was the setting that should have been Mordheim 2.0, but GW dropped the ball on the whole thing. Now my big fear would be an Old World situation where GW would release updated Mordheim rules, and repackage ancient models for high prices.
I've been a roleplayer for 20+ years and I've been thinking about getting into skirmish games (especially Mordheim) for a while now, and at the start of the year I finally managed to start playing with a group of great guys and start crafting terrain to make my own board. I love this game a lot, love the possibilities it has, and also that there is no FOMO with this game, no new editions every 3 years no new warbands and new rules (like with WH Underworlds), so a perfect game for me, who is working, has two kids and can invest not that much time and money into my hobby.
So yeah, GW definitely should leave this game be, love the community around it, love that I can come up with any solution for a warband I like, there is no pressure, just the gaming experience, which is amazing.
I love how GW is supporting Necromunda these days and I would absolutely love for them to do the same with Mordheim. I always regretted not getting into Mordheim back when I first got into Warhammer, and I don’t really have the time or desire to cobble it all together myself nowadays. Here’s hoping GW re-releases it soon!
“People thought it was good… when a comet hits your city it’s not good generally” had me rolling on the floor
GW did a print on demand with Rogue Trader. It was a pre-order deal so you had to decide to buy it while the order window was open and then they made as many as needed and shipped them out. So they could do that with Mordheim. It would give people a shot at getting a hardcopy the rule book. I'd snag a copy.
Mordheim has been pretty popular in my area - but that is New England, home of NEMO.
My local group is about 70-80% 3D printed, as is the terrain. (Mordheim terrain was how I got into 3D printing in the first place.)
There are companies that seem to specialize in Mordheim - Reptilian Overlords and Vae Victis coming quickly to mind.
Mordheim - absolutely loved it at the time. It was just a game that captured your imagination thanks to the mood the rulebook. Wonderful minis also helped of course. That being said - I've not played it in ten years despite still having tote bins of the original scenery and painted gangs in carry cases.
When GW rereleased Blood Bowl back in 2016, "We're doing fine without you - leave us alone" was very much my sentiment. Eight years later, GW are still supporting Blood Bowl, even recently releasing a brand new gnome team for it. It is absolutely different to how we were playing in 2015. But the game has a massive influx of new players along with it. The last Blood Bowl World Cup tournament in Spain had over 2200 players take part. So if GW did bring Mordheim back and properly support it with scenery, new warbands, rulebooks, etc; who knows. Maybe it would carry on being played in another 25 years for the 50th anniversary.
Blood Bowl was a lot better when GW wasn't supporting it, though. The new rules changes are mostly terrible and most of the new teams they've added aren't very good, either. They're far more focused on making and selling new minis than making the game rules good.
“Any wargame is miniature agnostic… if you believe in yourself.” 😂😂😂. This is why I’m subscribed. Understated sarcasm is a gift to the world!
the thing I fear the most about a Mordheim remake is that it would end up like kill team. What began as "you probably have 10-15 dudes from your faction of choice already" turned into "oh, you need multiples of this 40 bucks box in order to play this team" with a quickness. if they started adding bespoke warbands, it would render our old collections useless and make the game expensive at the same time.
Print is demand is great for small batches, but larger batches: 1. Cost more per unit. 2. Tend to be lower quality.
I’ll agree on the cost per unit, but the quality difference (these days) is negligible to most customers. Thanks for watching!
Why not... why not both? GW should release "Ulfenkarn", with a modern activation based ruleset minis, terrain and all that sh...stuff, and at the same time release a hardcover Mordheim anniversary rulebook (with towncrier and the expansion included) like they did with Rogue Trader?
There was also big Mordheim tournament in Northern Italy either early this year or late last year...
I'm new to wargaming and ive been playing 5th edition 40k with my brother on Tabletop Simulator and its been a blast, way more fun and straightforward then trying to learn 10th edition and dealing with those insane prices
i hope soon i can learn how to make terrain and find how to get 3d printed minis for solid price soon so i can enjoy the game for real physically.
Agree 100%. As someone who somewhat recently lost all of my Mordheim stuff due to a fire, I'd quite happily pay for a POD version of the Mordheim rules.
As an Ex Blood Bowl player. my advice to the Mordheim community is pray GW forgets you.
I’m worried videos like this will actually draw GW’s attention back to it.
the pc game of mordheim is also still fun. bit clunky, and has a few issues; but a very good adaptation and a lot of fun.
I agree! The Digital version is very fun and in the “Spirit” of the original game! I have the Xbox version. Its not perfect, but what digital game is without its flaws. The campaigns in it are great too, but I love the straight Skirmish mode!! Skaven!
Back in 2017 when Necromunda was brought back I was looking forward to GW doing the same thing with Mordheim. At that point I was just playing the Mordheim City of the Damned video game and I was sooooo into it. The game might not be that great, but I would call it my guilty pleasure, if only I would feel guilty about it :) Fast forward a couple of years, I’ve met some wonderful people and right now we are playing the original Mordheim on our own. Most of our miniatures are from Warcry or WH Underworlds, because the bespoke miniatures for these games are just amazing. Most of my Skaven warband consists of WHU minis, the Eshin assassins couldn’t be more „Mordheimy”. Anyway, that changed my mind, I saw how the community cares for that game, how everything is archived and organized and I wouldn’t want to see GW getting back to Mordheim only to bring down pages like Broheim.
GW should just re release the original boxed game exactly how it was, the same as they did with battle for Macragge.
This. If they did this it would sell like hot cakes.
I’m sure they wouldn’t make enough and then the scalpers would take over. Thanks for watching!
Do note that macragge had no rules inside
GW should do absolutely nothing, Mordheim has a life (after death) of it's own. Updated and living rule books are available online and as PDFs (which you can print at home or at a local print shop).
Mordheim dragged me kicking and screaming away from mass battle games to skirmish games, and I'll love it forever for that! I'm so happy to see so much interest in this venerable game 25 years later, thanks for the video! I would love to see GW reprint the Town Cryer books while they were at it... if they ever moved to print on demand.