You could use the "Veteran Squad" from GF as your Cadian Command Squad. Veteran Squad are 5 model, can have a medic, radio, a company standard and lots of special weapons. Cheers.
A squad of 5 Veterans is only allowed to take 1 medic/standard/vox though. However, you should just take vox for the "Command Squad" and put the medic and standard in an Infantry blob anyway, as they work better there imo.
The list of equivalent GW models is on the Onepagerules wiki. It's really nice to see someone saying how good the army builder is for OPR, it doesn't get nearly as much love as it deserves, I hope you have fun playing :)
Yeah, but they still don't have a proper equivalent for a lot of stuff. For example, my Death Korps of Krieg army doesn't have Chimeras, I use Centaurs for transports. Grim Dark Future doesn't really have an equivalent for the Centaur since the profile for the Light APC was clearly centered around being based off the Chimera.
That wiki is really helpful in understanding the equivalents; among other information etc. Been trying to get into War Games, specifically 40k; but I just don’t have the time to learn everything in 10th edition etc. Plus I’d rather not give GW my money.
This video was made for me. I have been troubled by the 10th edition change, for me it was a couple of weeks after I was finally able to get a Leviathan box. One of the hardest things in this hobby is saving, buying, and then having everything change was a horrible feeling. I love what OPR does for this game, keeping the rules costs down, allows us to play your game, not learn it over and over and over.
OPR is the way to go. We switched years ago, and never looked back. We even came up with some "battle tactics" to do during the game, which adds a lot of strategy.
And with the number of legacy models that are being turfed from 10th edition, I'm optimistic that I could potentially cajole some space marine players to dip their toes in.
9th came out when I started collecting. I used the opportunity to buy 8th edition rules and codex books on the cheep. That, plus a3d printer, and I'm playing for next to nothing.
I've never been in 40k, but instead I directly chose OPR. The fact I didn't know if I would like to wargame, made me think directly about the free solution. And I love it. Now we are a group of friends entering the hobby trough OPR
Lucky, I'm struggling to get local 40k players to try it. I've played previous editions of GDF and it's just more fun. I also prefer the alternating activation
@@batingbunnies I agree with liking alternating activations, it just feels so much nicer than waiting for your opponent for 10-20 min while they do there turn.
I started building just prior to 10th. With the release of 10th the majority of things I had already purchased became pointless, so I started 3d printing instead and moved onto printing other things while keeping up with the lore. I finally got the itch to build nids and attempt painting some of my old resin printed terminators with hammers and shields. I saw the 38 miniatures starter set with terminators and nids remembering the earlier excitement about the possibility of shrikes coming to plastic to go with the new prime with wings only to find out that the new prime sucks and nothing in the box was particularly useful together or for the 2000 point tournament list I picked after I got sad from the winged prime. I was going to build, purchase and print some models for casual play to learn the invasion fleet mechanics with, but just trying to find out between wahapedia and data cards which point listings are fully current is far more effort than it should be. At this rate, GW has wasted enough of my time, I almost want to outfit 2000 points of recasts out of spite.
Made the jump to OPR after 40k 8th became yet another cycle of constantly making books/cards redundant, using rules to promote new models, and generally being a convoluted mess of a system. Never once thought about going back, it's such a straight-forward and flexible system which lets you use whatever models you like on the table. And the web-app army builder is now just great.
"Made the jump to OPR after 40k 8th became yet another cycle of constantly making books/cards redundant, using rules to promote new models, and generally being a convoluted mess of a system." What are you talking about? That wasn't true about 8th edition at all. I still maintain that 8th Edition 40k was the best edition overall in terms of gameplay. It was 9th edition where they started bringing back all the rules bloat from 7th edition.
We converted our whole play group to OPR. No one was invested in 40k anymore 'cause of the frequent rule changes, prices for rules and army books and unbalanced gameplay and stale ruleset (especially the I-go-you-go mechanic). The whole hobby was in danger to just wither away. But OPR brought fresh wind in. Games are now quicker and thanks to the alternating activations more engaging and interesting from a tactical point of view. Plus no more buying an overpriced rule or army book every few years that quickly becomes out-of-date and obsolete and collects dust on the shelf. OPR is one of the best things to happen to wargaming in the last few years (just my two cents).
To me, this OPR game sounds a lot like Bolt Action. The amount of figures and points ranges seem to reflect that was the influence for it. Another advance with historicals is that the figures don't change and your British paratroopers don't suddenly have new special rules or some crazy point change that just messes up your whole list. When you're dealing with smaller forces, you can afford, store and keep up with multiple forces more easily.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 There are definetly some similarities between OPR and BA, which we also play and enjoy. Maybe this contributed to the success OPR had in our group. In the advanced rulebook of GDF there is also an option for random turn order just like in BA, but for now we stick with the alternating activations.
Alternating activation is really the only advantage that Grimdark Future has over 40k. The rest of the system is just too simple for my taste. I've tried it and my overall opinion of it is that it's a great beginner system for introducing someone to miniature wargaming, but it won't satisfy someone looking for a system with more tactical depth.
@@Commodore22345 I would say it depends. From my view GDF offers more tactical depth because the turn order forces me to constantly evaluate my next move and everything is in constant flux. Threat-Levels of enemy units are constantly changing (has already fought in melee once this turn so only hits on 6s, has already acitvated this turn so no more imminent attack from them to fear and so on). However - and this is where I agree with you - 40k has more factionwide special rules and therefore there are more strategic decisions to make while list building, especially since GDF doesn't have weapon strenghts and wounds.
I really appreciate this video and as someone who has collected GW minis for 30 years I’ve never been able to embrace the game itself. I just don’t have the spare mental energy to keep up with the increasingly frequent rules changes. I have been considering OPR for a while now but I haven’t acted on it yet! Thanks for the video! 👍
This was the case for my friend, who had been sitting on a collection for years without ever taking the plunge, as the 40k system just overwhelmed him with its bloated mass. He was able to hop into a nice 1500pt game (you never really use more than 10 units in a list) and actually feel that fantasy you have as a kid of pushing an army around the table.
Absolutely 👍 I think there is a large contingent of people who enjoy the GW models and lore but are just swamped by the complexity of the game. For me it is specifically how frequently they change the rules. Makes me not want to invest the time in learning them in the first place 🤷🏼♂️
The complexity, scale and its unfriendly to n00b nature kept me away from 40k for 3 decades. I got pushed towards killteam which YES is smaller & skirmish size but DOES offer complexity. Nowhere near as bad as full 40k but getting the season boxes for killteam is farcical. So limited, sells out in seconds and youre either at the mercy of scalpers or wait 4-6 months for the seperate release of the teams, codex and terrain. Despite its issues, killteam is worth a look
@maddokminis I was a noob and you are correct but we get called dumb for not immediately understand all of the bloat. I love playing both but I will say opr games go so much quicker for me so that means more games
My wargaming journey truly started with OPR as a result of loving the GW models and universes but hating the rules. It's been a blast since then, and now I'm even at a place where I'm interested in designing my own games. Fun stuff!
I've played 40k since 2nd edition and switched to Grimdark Future after the rules bloat and hectic release schedule that spiralled out of control. It saved wargaming for me and my playgroup, when playing a handful of games of 40k each year it's not feasible to buy new books and learn new rules each time... It just ended up with with us not playing it at all. Now it's a joy to bring out the models again! 😊
So I've only played one or two games of 40k, but have played other wargames since 2015, so this question is purely out of curiosity. If your group switched over to a new rules system, why didn't you guys just stick to an older edition?
You could also build a custom unit with the points' calculator, or look at one of the custom armies to see if you can find a good fit for your Cadian Command ;)
This. I don't play GW or OPR games, so I'm not an expert and I'm happy to be corrected if wrong, but my understanding is that in OPR games, points are calculated for stats and abilities, meaning you can create any unit you can imagine, work out the points and thus things are really well balanced. I hear a lot of complaints that GW has a massive balance issue in their games, but in OPR if a model has a certain movement/toughness stat and certain abilities, it will always cost the same points regardless of faction
I've played 40k since 2nd edition and switched over to OPR a few years ago; never looking back. The game is the right level of crunch for me, and I love alternating activations. There are modular extra rules (like command points and stratagems) if you want to add complexity, and a really solid points calculator so you can easily do homebrew to fill in gaps (for example there's no really great equivalent for the Neurotyrant). Oh, and it's FREE, so no more expensive codexes that get errata'd on day one. It's not a perfect game (the way it handles Morale is a little wonky imo), but for me it really captures the nostalgic feeling of being a teenager and playing 3rd or 4th edition.
I keep telling people that it feels like playing 3rd/4th ed...but with alternating turn that really keeps the engagement high. And yes, as a person who keeps losing his tanks to morale, I agree the morale is wonky.
By the way. With regards to figures and gaming, my son was interested in Bolt Action. So I bought a rule book and proxied in our 40k figures, him with his AM and I with my DAR. Clearly a squad based game we have to play a few more to decide if we really want to get into it, but your Sci-fi figures are not restricted to that role. His AM were Germans and in a 1000 points he fielded a Stug, several squads and a mortar and MMG. I fielded bigger squads a Falcon as a Churchill and another unit as a Humber MKIII armoured car. So don't let your imagination be limited by what your forces look like. We even used our FoW markers for pining, planned barrage and down/dug in markers.
Excellent choice. AFAIK, you can create your own units with their rules and even armies with the army builder from OPR. It then calculates the points cost for you... ;) I opted out of the GW eco system 2 years ago and got into OPR and am not looking back. I am playing more, spending less, and am having much more fun when playing than I ever did playing GW games. I am using my GW minis alongside with 3D printed sculpts from OPR and other creators and honestly feel I have rediscovered the joy of wargaming, without getting the feeling of being nothing but a cash cow. I have become a patron of OPR in January 2022. I opted for the higher tier, that provides around 40-50 miniatures in STL form every month for the armies they release themselves. By now, I have collected STL files for 7 full fledged armies for less than the price of a starter box like Leviathan and one codex. I have printed more than 500 models (so my pile of opportunity is growing even faster than before), but as a single infantry sized model literally costs less than one Euro to print, even when factoring in the cost for the 3D printer, the resin, and accessories, this is a win-win situation for me. The big advantage of the OPR rules, is that you can easily play with just basic rules, or “competition” rules, that come close to the complexity of GW rules, but with a much more modern and fluid game design (alternative activation). Also, a 2.000 points OPR game typically takes no longer than 1,5-2 hours, so more than one game on a game night is a possibility.
Convincing your friends to play OPR is way harder that it may seem to begin with. I tried frankly quite hard to get in some trial games of this *free* game and yet people get super defensive when it comes to warhammer.
When people invest a lot of time and money into a thing, it can feel like part of their identity. Consequently, criticizing the game or even the company can feel like criticizing them. They forget GW's goal is to maximize profits.
The really sad part is when your gamming group just give up on playing Warhammer and prefer to not play amything. They don't even want to try OPR or play Warhammer, just this really weard state of "hate to GW and any alternative".
@@Javimoni Really- what is up with that? I had a similar group at a game store I went to a while back. Not only with 40k, but some had 2, 3, even 5 warhammer fantasy armies sitting in boxes for nearly a decade like it was a badge of pride. Never looked at other fantasy games or thought about selling them.
It's all about OPR. The adv rules add a lot to the base game. They are written in such a way that you don't need to use them all at the same time. You can cherry pick the ones you like and still have a fun balanced matchup.
In particular the Bolt Action style random activation adds quite a bit without really adding any record keeping or complication. For instance it makes Ambush deployments kind of interesting by not letting anyone know if a unit can get a charge off or not. Compare that with the endless mucking about with overwatch rules in 40k editions.
I play my Mantic Plague army as an Infected Colonies army in GrimDark Future as well as using it in Deadzone and Firefight. I also have a huge Mars Attacks army that GrimDark Future brought back to life.
@@ianmasica3933 It’s pretty cool. It’s from the Mantic Mars Attacks game. I have huge stompy robots, flying saucers, mutated giant bugs and a ton of martians. One of my favorite things about it is the martians all came with clear plastic helmets to put on after painting them.
Having just been in a 40k 10th edition tournament, I was just about ready to call it quits on the entire 40k system. I'll definitely be looking in to OPR and Grim Dark Future
Started 40K with a friend recently and we are both pretty new to it. We were so overwhelmed by everything, that we spent most of the first time playing reading and trying to figure out what was a valid move and what was not. We switched up to OPR (after watching one of your videos) and were able to quickly run through three games one late night. We are going to run OPR games to start and slowly introduce 40K back into our future games, once we are able to get a better understanding. Keep up the great videos.
Already made the switch (but we play Firefight - the Killteam equivalent). I only get to play a couple of times/year with a close group of mates - I don't have a local club - so we wanted something that is easy to learn, with the option of adding in as many additional rules as we want to add more complexity over time. It ticks all the boxes for us. Low cost of entry. Less time to learn. Amazing army builder + non bloated rules meant that a guy who'd never played wargames before was making competitive AND themed lists after one game. The army builder is incredibly intuitive - unit/weapon's special rules actually bring up a small popup when tapped/clicked on, which makes rule checking incredibly quick. I would recommend it to anyone who is a bit tired of 40k - there's nothing to lose. Rules are free, and only cost £5 if you want the full rulebook. Also that free army builder :P
Love OPR. I’ve been a $10 supporter on their Partron for going on a year. I own most of their army STL packs and have really enjoyed being about to print, paint, and play Firefight Teams whenever the urge strikes me. I currently have 10 different teams, 8 of which are OPR official model prints. I just finished printing and painting a Battle Brothers army at 2k and am in the process of a Wormhole Demon army. I love the game. In the case of games like Legion, I can use the models and the mood but not have 150 cards scattered across the side or bottom of the table. It’s an army sheet and models. Fast, easy, and satisfying. I highly advise it!
Only thing I hate is that the last unit on a gdff list (the 3 point 'heavy' unit) is usually in the last batch of models for an army. Raptor riders, destroyer sisters, rat ogers. But it's fun just to make and paint a single squad.
I've never tried 40k, I was just considering Necromunda or Kill team instead, just something small, cheep, quick, easy and fun for nice evening game with friends. But I directly chose OPR when I saw your video some time ago. Great inspiration. I realized, that it's actually my game and my rules. It's just completely on me what model I choose, how I define it's stats, what rules I accept and how many dices I'll need. I think that maybe people forgot that it's just a game and only rule is to have fun...
What I do to get my friends involved is I have several 1000 point armies for different races that I 3d print and paint up (fantastic for trying painting different models) and all they have to do is turn up and pick a team :D
A few folks at my Local Game Store (myself included) got waaaayy too hyped about the idea of 10th edition being simpler and more accessible than 9th. We all got big boxes of new models, started theorycrafting 2k lists and whatnot. Then when we started actually playing the game the dreaded realization that we actually just weren't having fun and had gotten into a huge hobby hole for a game we didn't like started to settle in. OPR has been an absolute lifesaver since we're in it for the lore and hobby and beer and pretzels fun of chucking dice and hanging out. OPR gives us that where 10th asks us to chase the meta and buy hundreds of dollars of rulebooks.
When we gathered with online friends during summer, one of them brought the tenth edition rulebook. She and another were 40k players, but the other one got tired of the constant changes and I made him discover OPR rulesets prior to this online with Tabletop Simulator. In 15 minutes, they both made their army lists, chose their models and started the game. It was a classic ork vs space marine battle, with three dreadnoughts managing to barely survive the endless waves of greenskins and goblin artillery. Watching them actually play an IRL game of OPR made me actually want to get miniatures of my own, what years of WH40K videos and battle reports never managed to do.
7:23 to answer this question there is a TH-cam channel called @WarbossFitz. Where he talks about all factions and their crossovers to 40K while doing army/unit builds. And also does army/unit breakdowns in what each unit comes with etc.
I grew up with WH40K 2nd Edition rules and I remember that back in the days a Space Marine army was not really big. For 2K points for example you could lead about 38 infantry only models (incl. 3 characters) into battle. If you take a vehicle with you it would be even less models. In 10th edtion, although I have already 4 vehicles in the list, I still have about 63(!) infantry models to take with me (including 3 characters too). That's an incredible difference! And that are not only small and cheap units, thery are mostly standard and elites. A friend recommended One Page Rules already to me and I also saw some videos about it recently. I think I will give them a go and will try them out. Thank you for your video here. This direct comparison, especially with the points was very interesting for me!
I am really glad you made this video. I just finished a battle report for Grimdark Future. I couldn't decide what I wanted to play (40K or OPR). In looking at 40K, I honestly found myself thinking...where do I pick this back up at? Where did I leave off? Then I started thinking, by the time I release the video next week it will be outdated with the new Space Marine Codex. This led me to building an army and playing Grimdark Future at 2k points. The list builder is incredible and everything for my faction printed on one page. It has a lot of depth as well with weapon options and overall the game was just plain fun to play. I appreciate you sharing as you'll definitely get more views than my little channel. My son and I really enjoyed playing it!
I've been doing this since early one in my mini's hobby time. The freedom of OPR just makes a world of difference when it comes to building models and lists. I've even gotten back into Gunpla knowing I can use them in OPR games and been getting into scratch building too! OPR's rules and army builder are a major factor in me finally getting into this hobby after watching it from the side lines for years, and I thank Jesus for them. I'm still having fun!
11:40 - You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. To that proverb, I have always said, "but you can feed them salt." A friend who owns horses heard me say it once and after a pause said, "that's right, actually." Feed them enough salt, they will drink the water.
Thank you for the video, Uncle, some very good points raised. I returned to 10th after 2nd edition like 2 decades ago - it was initially fun but just no. It takes hours to play and the continuation of rules and points changes with the incurrent spending associated with that has turned me off. We start Grim Dark Future next month :)
As a newbie to wargaming I tried really hard to get into 40k/AoS. However, I found the rules just didn’t click for me and I really didn’t enjoy the game despite really enjoying the lore and models a ton. So it was disappointing and frustrating to me I wasn’t able to enjoy what many people perceived as one of the main parts of 40k. That was until I found One Page Rules, which I found I enjoyed so much more than what GW makes. The more fast-pace turns and easier mechanics are a much better sell from being a lot less overwhelming.
I'm a fan of OPR and your own musings. I'm currently teaching some students about wargaming and a part of me is wondering if I should direct them to OPR instead of GW games. OPR has become more relevant to me since the launch of the new Space Marine Codex. I have 4 space marine codices and more BA codices all 20-45e each as editions got more expensive. I look at these hard backs and the sunk cost they represent and I hear a voice in my ear whisper 'OPR', 'Grimdark Future' and I'm starting to listen more.
I made the switch to opr I think about a year ago ish and it has completely revived my love for minitures and wargaming. There's 2 main points that make me love opr 1) the community loves seeing "custom" armies in the sense of like homwbrew rules or seeing what people use as stand in for models 2) I love that the rules are simple and easy to pick up and that you can use whatever models you can get your hands on like I actually use 1/144 scale gunpla kits for titan lords army
Love your videos! With my group we basically hopped over Age of Fantasy: Skirmish during the last year and we are loving it. The only one thing I would point out is that (in AoF:S and during last year, at least) changes do seem to occur and do seem to be rather frequent (from memory, even on a monthly basis). Small things, like a 5 point modification here and there, but 5 points that could make your 250 point list invalid. Moroever, they don't always seem to be explicitly mentioned in updates notes. We literally started double-checking lists right before starting the game to make sure we were all using the same point values. Having said that, maybe this was due to ramping up to third edition and they testing differents things. The game is still awesome!
The creator of OPR said in his livestream that those who enjoy the rules being stable for 2 years are going to have to be patient while they rebalance. Grimdark future and Age of fantasy are now 100% the same rules wise. You can battle them with no problem now. The points are equal now. This is the first major update in 2 years. There will be some fine-tuning as he gets feedback. He says he doesn't plan and more major changes for atleast 6 months.
The One Page Rules Wiki lists minis from GW and other companies and what OPR armies they can stand in for. The Cadian Command leader can be your company leader. The others can be added to other units, most units can take one of either a medic, a field radio, or a company standard.
OPR has come a long way in a short time of building a base of customers that like their products, business practices, and want to play their games not just because they are the only game around or the only one, they can find players for. I hope that the community of players continues to grow and keeps providing an alternative for people looking to actual play wargames that does not require a massive expenditure of time and money just to get to the point where you can play a game at the recommended point value. Everybody should play whatever game they find fun, but I don't think a lot of people who play GW games, have enthusiastically chose it on its merits. Rather I think lots of GW players don't know other options exist or can't get anyone in their circle to play something else. For many GW players they are operating under the assumption that GW's predatory business model, clunky rules, and high cost of entry/maintenance is just the "fun tax" they have to pay to enjoy their hobby.
I'm glad you're making a video on this, as honestly this is the only way GW sees the disapproval in customers anymore. They do something, people don't like it. People make videos talking about other games, GW realizes they are pushing away customers. I am also currently looking into OPRs, getting a rulebook and maybe some of those paper terrains. It's just a mess of a list to look through and see what PDFs I need to buy though. Multiple rulebooks, advanced rulebooks, mission packs, campaigns?
I'd actually want to try OPR but locally my area is basically "40k or you play by yourself" at basically all of the 3-4 game stores in the area. Like even suggesting OPR, despite everything, would get the stink-eye, and I don't know why because it's the same models just better rules. Their own models though... are a bit pricier than I'd have expected (the physical models I mean, not the STLs, as I don't have a 3D printer to compare cost of buying it ready made versus materials to print it out). Nearly as much as GW :(
Just like you, uncle Atom, I typically play skirmish. With OPR it's simply amazing. Now I can do "have models, will play" - getting into fullscale Warhammer was a whole 1 year+ adventure for me before I could get one game in, for OPR skirmish and full-scale, I was able to do it after just 1 month of assembling and painting.
We switched quite a while ago and there is no regret. We actually played a few games in a 30k setting and made our own Primarch models. After playing OPR for a while balancing self-made characters is fun and not as hard as it sounds. All it takes is a few willing friends.
Uncle Adam, I own a small game store in my hometown which I opened up this Feb 2024. I carry GW products and games and although there is a large group of players that support GW there are some that have become infuriated with the changes to 40K and have quit the game. I have been promoting OPR for years, and I played only a handful of games because not many people are willing to try it or convert. The literal name, One Page Rules, makes them laugh, until they throw dice. I have converted a few people that still buy GW models but use the OPR system. We support and play it at the shop. My friends that wanted to quit due to Eldar changes, Imperial Guard changes and just recently the death of the Deathwatch army. (A buddy has over 3000 pts in DW and he nearly quit the hobby but is looking into OPR now.) I thank you for sharing this video and OPR in general. Your videos keep the hobby alive to me personally and others. Thank you.
A good, free army builder is a big plus for any game. Back a few years a game that used Easy Army was easier to get into than one where you had to muck about in BattleScribe. Of course it helps if the games army rules are reasonably simple in the first place.
I dont think ill do the switch, personally. Let me preface with this, i dont buy 40k books. I pirate or use other means to get the info. I dont really buy gw models, i 3d print similar proxies. I dont like how gw can be, with their edition life cycles and lack of play testing. However A: i have a hard enough time meeting and playing with people consistently enough, asking them to try this niche game would really only alienate me more B: its simple and fast, of course and that can be great. But for me, its a little too simple. I play alot. I feel as if i would get tired of it fast C: armies lack the identity of what they are in 40k, in my opinion. Its a 40k knock off, but playing i felt that the armies flavors, the thing that got me into 40k, is severely lacking D: i like having alot of models on the board. Its cool, it looks cool. Dont take me wrong, what opr is doing is great, simply not for me
the OPR wiki has pretty decent ties to other model lines (including GW), as in it tells you which model is a guardsman etc. I just sold 4 40k lots, and decided to switch to OPR. What switched me over.. wasnt OPR it was battletech. I opened the battletech alpha strike box and was super angry because it made me aware of how bad GW has been treating us throughout the years. THen I found OPR and started 3d printing and im super stoked.
Exactly what I've started doing, you can still by GW models to use and you can buy the books if you want for lore and cool pictures. And the OPR online list builder is crazy good!
I use OPR when trying to entice my friends into playing Just so much simpler to explain and get into killing minis quickly But I think it was Discourse minis? An Irish woman, who said it pretty well I think, Most people play OPR but are thinking about Warhammer I feel the simplicity of OPR is both it’s strength and weakness I think OPR lacks some depth that impedes tactical play But saying that, I really don’t get to play all that often But I think about playing a lot🤣
I never understood the complexity argument. "tactical play", i was an avid 40k tournament goer for years. There is only like four different tactical styles of army that actually wins games. They even have strategems etc in the advanced rules in OPR.
thanks. I'll look into that. I probably haven't utilised the game to it's fullest extent. I suppose I was actually comparing Kill Team with Firefight. I find Firefight is fast and dirty, compared with KT which even though its a skirmish game, I find is still very involved. at least to this casual player. respect to you mate, if you're a tournament player. I can only dream. :)@@telleryoutube4458
I play the Solo rules. As a Dad of 3 with varying timetables I've been able to get more games in solo than ever. It also uses the same rules so when I do sneak a quicker game in with friends I am up to speed!
Yes you should. OPR is a far better game and gets better the more you play it. I've been playing various OPR games for over a year now. Your last point is so important - we need to make the games we want to play. I've switched to OPR and will never go back. Whether you like it or not is a matter of personal taste, but OPR is just a far superior game to play on the table and all the elements around it, which you talk about in terms of how the game is presented, are so much better than GW's predatory practices. I'm close to buying a 3D printer to take advantage of the stls OPR provides too. There are no good reasons to stick with GW at this point.
@@nathangerardy2669I would love one but just need a garage or something for ventilation etc - hopefully moving house next year and that’s top of the list though!
I have a ton of custom-built vehicles for my Imperial Guard which were created using GW's Vehicle Design Rules back in 2002-2004: tanks, APCs, artillery, recon vehicles, etc. Using OPR's Army Forge list builder, and combining the Human Defense Forces, Rebel Guerrillas, and Feral Guard lists, I've been able to adequately recreate all of them for use in Grimdark Future. I can't say enough good things about OPR's army list builder. It's spectacular. 😲
In the one page rules wiki. For each game/setting there is a page called "game name/setting name miniatures". And you will find a conversation table for gw models.
I wouldn't say I am in the "refuse to switch" camp, I am thinking of giving OPR a try, but for me I want a MASSED battle game, capital letters as emphasizing the mass. I want a table packed full of miniatures, there are plenty of skirmish level games out there already. It is expensive and more work but if you can afford it or can acquire models via other means (2nd hand, 3D printing etc) then the sight of a fully arrayed 2,000 or 3,000 point battle can't be beat in my opinion. Now, if you can play OPR at 4,000 points, then that would be interesting......
Rhats absolutely no problem and i regularly played and play OPR with 4k points and it is so much fun! Especially since you dont have to remember any unit specific stratagems and such stuff so i actually think its more suited for a huge army than 40k is
Technically speaking you could field a million points. It's kind of the same as GW, in that there are some recommended point values to start with, after that the only limit is what you agree on and the limitations of table space. All of the organizational rules scale infinitely. Like there is no "rule of 3" the number of duplicates you can take is simply determined by the point limit, the higher the limit the more dupes you're allowed. Same idea with heroes and other organizational rules. And even those organization rules are marked optional, you can throw them out the window if you like (but balance might get wonky)
In the advanced rulebook, there are rules for games over 3000 points (called 'Apocalypse Mode'). It has speed-up rules for movement, shooting, and cover. It's absolutely a game you can crowd a table with and the simplified rules make playing such games go by with less bookkeeping than other wargames.
One of the guys on the one page rules Facebook group regularly does 20,000 point game days. And they look so much fun..and they play in a quicker time than a 2000pt game of 40k haha
I've been playing Age of Fantasy and Grimdark Future for a couple of years now and I just love the gaming experience using those rules: The activation sequence, the special abilities, the new casting rules, etc. The game keeps getting better and the narrative has stronger elements in the current 3.0 edition. That said, sometimes I get to play with GW's rules and I have to admit that I really enjoy the experience too. Specially when it comes to the factions's "identity" game mechanics. In the end, I guess we're just fortunate to be able to play using both rules systems with the same miniatures. Everybody wins, right? Thanks for the great video Uncle Atom!
That quick point change, new books, editions and power creep is another reason I like MESBG (besides the fact it's a great system) is that the release are ultra slow. So, you have time to build up your force and the power creep is slower!
I've recently gotten back into the hobby. I used play -well actually mainly PAINT, not play- WHFB 20 years ago. Then adult life and family happened, like it does with most of us. Anyway, I got a printer a couple months ago and I'm itching to play. OPR has been on my radar for a long time. And while I currently try to mainly limit myself to Kill Team units, I think that when a full army is assambled, I will try and find people to play OPR. I just don't see myself playing 2k-point games of 40k with dozens upon dozens of miniatures, and ever-more-complicated rules. The only thing the 40k universe has going for it is the fact that it has decades of cool lore to work with.
What don’t GW get. We want simple rules that don’t change every 5 minutes. We have lives outside of wargaming we can’t just read change after change. If I want to play on a Monday I don’t want to spend the day before revising and catching up on changes.
OPR looks extremely interesting. I haven't played 40k since mid 9th. Been playing AoS which I like way more. If I ever went back to sci Fi wargaming I'd use my old 40k models to play OPR.
Going for a game of Grim dark future this evening at a friend's house. We have a hard time limit of the last train home. Ever game of 40k we ever had finished early because it took too long, every game of Grim dark future has reached a satisfying conclusion. The game length means we actually play more often than we used to.
I went to a new hobby store about two years ago that had a sizeable 15+ "waiting for 10th edition" group. They played battletech, flames of war, and conquest- but they always talked about 40k, even while playing said games. So I brought up OPR and got a lot of positive chatter but most got evasive when I tried to pin down a date to demo the game or just flat-out didn't show up to play. The three people I did get to play it loved it, but never wanted to follow up on more games. So I found another gaming store(much further away) and I've demo'd OPR and even have a small forbidden psalm group growing. I know the option isn't available to everyone, but always give other stores a look for possible interest. Funny thing is that last week I got a notice on discord from the old store I went with people gripping about the recent 40k changes and asking where I was to play OPR. Nah, I'm good.
Yeah, a lot of armies feel kinda samey. That’s something that they have acknowledged and are working on. There are definitely some armies that feel rather unique though.
Sort of the price you pay for rules consistency and balance. Then again you don't have someone pulling some crazy rules combo out of their butt you never heard of either. :)
@@Dr_Disintegrator I am ok with those moments to a degree. As long as my opponent wasn't lying or intentionally hiding things, having some reactionary tools is a good thing. The I-GO-YOU-GO system helps a bit, but having a few more reactionary game rules and options, maybe design a system for Army Wide rules, would go a long way to differentiating things.
Waay back in the day, Warzone suffered from a similar issue. But it as a good game design that GW wished they could ever approach the greatness of. It did lack a lot of granularity that you see in many wargames that offer a player more indivudual customization, and finding that sweet spot between being dull and samey and too complex for its own sake is kinda hard to achieve with designs currently in print. You gotta dig deep into history to find the gems that failed, not because of their design, but because they couldnt compete with GW on the model front.
Try out the army creator. Just to add a little flair to your armies. You can create your own rules and abilities. Very easy to use. You have to be a patreon supporter for access. I've seen an Alien themed army. A Predators themed armies. The possibilities are endless. Been OPR patreon since 2021. The amount of 3d models each month is awesome. OPR is one of a very few creators that will do entire armies worth of models.
A very astute comment about the points values of units in games from a company that makes its money from models versus one that doesn't 🤔. The big problem, as you point out, is the same one facing people who want to break away from the WotC stranglehold and play something other than D&D - everybody plays the most popular game and inertia and laziness tends to keep it that way. Persuading your friends to invest time and effort into learning something new and different is a big hurdle 😔. Hope to catch you on Twitch later 👍
Being able to take a ridiculous amount of guard bodies in a 1000pts is why I play guard, this seems to go against the flavour of what they are, but to each their own
It's just an value issue a 2000 grimdark game is roughly a 1000 point 40k game. Likewise a 4k game would be a 2k game. Because the point cost is calculated not arbitrarily set, having more point avoids fractional values. It's like a game where the base is 1000 health verses another one with 100 health. I just did a 2500 point opr gaurd list and it has 50 assorted infantry (plus tanks and such), I have a 2500 point hive list ('nids) with 80 grunts ( and some other stuff). This is actually a pretty fun matchup with the gaurd trying to kill them before they are overwhelmed.
You get 10 Guardsmen for 120 points, so you can have 80 guys if you took just them. The conscripts are only 75pts for 10 guys, so that'd be 130 dudes. Compared to the Battle Brothers (Space Marines), whose 5 man squads at 150 points gets you about 30 guys, you can see it scales well between different armies.
We tried hard to play 40K at my local groupe but rules changed every time we played from index files, then one FAQ, then the tyrannide codex and then...TLDR rules and points changing all the time isn't fun. And i think we are just gonna go the OPR route, nobody cares to much about the competitive aspect of the game anyway. We just love a good or a terrible dice roll and troll one another. Grimdrak is perfect for narrative campaigns you can even switch to the skifmish rules to resolve some of the narrative. Like defend a shipwreck to get the ressources inside, next game you play skirmish in the shipwreck with an advantage or something for the player that won the previous game.
I've been meaning to give OPR a go for a while now. My gaming friends are pretty impenetrable when it comes to other games, but I've got a few looking into the hobby, so they'll be a blank canvas I can show GW & OPR, and ask which they prefer.
I only played Grimdark Future solo (in the beginning of the pandemic), but it was really fun. And, more importantly, it works with multibased models (as per rules, explicitly "as long as it applies to all units"), AND scales down to 6mm really easily (just use centimeters instead of inches, no other mental acrobatics required). They even have a point cost calculator for when you have a particular model that doesn't have a balanced and tested profile.
Great analysis! I’ve been thinking of OPR and Osprey Games. While I do love the 40K lore and product, it’s just not conducive to my play and model painting output. For $20 a pop, I can get different genres, artwork, and a new model agnostic game. I really do prefer GW models though. Middle Earth is a good old school feel GW game too.
Been playing opr since 8th came out, the first thing that struck me about the game was just how much fun I was having playing it, quick battles and simple rules , just clicked with me
I played the 2.0 Grimdark Firefight rules, the skirmish game. It plays fast but is incredibly lethal, which I have mixed feelings about. Grimdark future's morale system quickly breaks a unit based on the video reviews I've seen, but tweaking that to be slightly more forgiving would really make me want to play it as a beer and prezel style wargame. I'm a kill team player primarily, and I could likely field a big army with my kill teams.
I've played a bunch of games of OPR, and have started to get back into 40k since 10e after about an edition and a half haitus. I plan on continuing to play both, as I feel they scratch a different itch. I'll do a list of pros and cons for both, from my perspective. OPR Pros: - Free (or very cheap) rules combined with low model counts allow for great ease of entry - Fast games means you can be done a game of OPR in an hour or two without feeling rushed. We'll often play 2 games of OPR in the time it takes us to finish one game of 40k - Alternating activations makes it so you dont sit around for 30 minutes watching your opponent roll dice without getting to do much. - Model agnostic system is great for running whatever cool minis you can find out there. - Simple rules are easy for new players to understand and quickly get into the game. OPR Cons: - Rule simplicity sometimes makes the game feel a little more flat than a more complex system - Lower model count means that losing an important unit right away, or whiffing badly can more quickly snowball into hopelessness - 4 turn games means that in effect you spend the first turn just getting into position, and then only have about 3 turns of action - Characters often feel more like babysitters designed to buff your units than epic warriors in their own right. (This is a pro if you hate herohammer) 40k Pros: - Larger model counts makes for epic looking and feeling battles. If you have a large collection you get to play with more toys at once, which is fun. - Characters are often capable of bullying entire squads on their own, and feel cool and powerful to use. - Tactical secondary objectives keep the game fresh and changing each turn. - Individual units and armies each have their own special abilities, which helps them feel meaningfully different from each other. - Emphasis on WYSIWYG can make remembering which units are what, as well as loadouts easier. - Large existing community, as well as a thriving competitive scene for those who enjoy that. 40k Cons: - Codexes mean paying a lot of money for your army rules - No alternating activation can lead to situations where you watch your army get blown off the table in a turn before they even get to activate. - Hundreds of units with unique profiles and rules makes balancing the game a nightmare. - More models = more money in order to be able to play at all. - More complex rules can make the game difficult for new players/groups to get into, if they dont have an experienced player to help them figure stuff out. Overall I think I prefer 40k's gameplay, but OPR's business model/philisophy. If I didn't already have large collections of miniatures for multiple armies though, I would probably not be getting into 40k now. OPR is a great introduction into the wargaming hobby, and still very fun for vets, even if they intend to keep it as their primary game system.
GW make a game system that is in fact as clever as it's models are superb, it's complexity and ever shifting sands ensures individuals do not have enough time to become proficient with another system. Add to that the dominance within the discourse for competitive play and people fear straying from the path. I have recently been playing 1000pts games of 40k and it works fine. And I keep away from the tournament scene.
I think you're right about the strategy of overloading players so they simply don't even consider alternatives. DnD is very much the same in the TTRPG space; players there come to believe every game is a bloated and lengthy to learn as the 'main game', which cements their sunk-cost fallacy further.
@@mystecoregamesIt explains why D&D players generally don't consider any other ttrpgs, but rather try to cram Cyberpunk/Noir/WeirdWar/Scifi or any other genre into the D&D framework and somehow hope it works.
I've been all-in on OPR for a while now and even got into 3d printing for their models, but the rules have so much to offer. I can see how 40k's complexity can be compelling if you play often enough to keep your available army rules and strategems mentally handy and have a decent idea what your opponent's options are, but that kind of familiarity requires playing a whole lot more often than I'm able to. I feel like being able to make informed tactical game decisions has a learning curve I don't have time to climb. OPR's complexity is scaleable especially with the full/paid rules. I get maybe two game sessions in per month but the rules are concise enough and abilities and weapon effects translate across army lists enough that I can juggle all the variables and play well. And as things get more familiar we can add in things like command points and secondary objectives to make the game a little deeper. I also like that fewer army specific surprise gotcha rules means your decisions on the battlefield matter a whole lot more than the fluffy rules behind your army. OPR feels like playing a game where everyone has all the rules up front where 40k can feel like playing Magic against someone with an entire deck you've never heard of. Plus, free rules and army builder online. Hard to beat that.
I could see how the constant rules changes are frustrating but there were blatant balance issues that needed addressing. As somone who trys to play competitively and very frequently. I like the fast changes.
I get that, but a bit of playtesting prior to the game's release would go a long way toward eliminating the need for these fast changes. But GW doesn't bother with that.
No more meta chasing, power creep, constant codex purchases, or 'you-go-I-go'? Games that don't take all day? Honestly OPR is the only way I'm getting into full-scale 40k at this point.
There is Meta chasing too. In every Game there is a "Meta" it just depends what you and your playgroup want from the Game. We recently did a OPR Tournament and there are armies which are better then others for sure. For me it's both 40k and OPR. Both systems have positive and negative aspects.
@@Stevie28 when I say meta chasing, I don't mean one list being better than another. I mean people reconfiguring their armies every 6 months because of rule changes to follow the list that is the hottest for that short period of time.
OPR is definitely looking more and more appealing. I've been painting sisters for a while, and we got massive point cuts in the last update, which basically reduced my current collection from ~1500 points to 1000 points. I think my truly ideal scenario would be Combat Patrol with a little better support. A bunch of fans of Warmachine/Hordes in Mk III created a format called "Brawlmachine", a custom ruleset tweaked for 25 point games (75 points being the usual tournament format). It immediately took off, because it was fast, easy, and most importantly included a ban list for models that were just too powerful for the format to contain. OPR might be the closest to that at the moment, even if I do find nickle-and-dime point costs to be a little irritating for when I just want to plunk some models on the table and play.
Got into OPR through family, my GF her sister and her sisters fiancé have all expressed an interest in tabletop war gaming and this 40K/AoS/WHFB but the major issue they found was cost of entry and rules. Particularly that the rule books and codexes are probably errata’d. So one evening I showed them OPR and we played some grimdark. I can even use my old firstborn and roll out older sets. Went great, played a few 1000pt games with some beers and snacks they loved it.
I've been disillusioned with 40k since 6th edition, but have kept playing it because of the great group of 40k friends I had. However, since 8th edition and the whole Primaris money grabbing, I've been looking for alternatives, also because my group of friends slowly stopped playing (we were basically just meeting to have a good time together, rather than play). I've learned about OPR some years ago and was thrilled by it, to the point of briefly subscribing to their Patreon, translating the GF rules in my language (some of my 40k friends are not well versed in English) and try to make my friends have a look at it, but to no avail, they still stay faithful to GW. Only one of them has tried GF and seemed interested, but with the coming out of 10ed I guess my chances have all but disappeared. And I refuse to play 10ed, because I can't stand anymore some GW practices, so I'm kind of in a blind spot right now. I guess I'll have to look in some gaming club or flgs, but being used to play only with friends, it won't be easy.
OPR is what I play with my nephews. It's fast and simple, and lets them play with their toys. 40k 10th is my first full 40k (been playing Kill Team since '18), and it's been a blast. I really love the attached unit system and the rules are just more dynamic. Alternating activations is the main selling point of the OPR ruleset.
Anyone thats is complaining about GW making changes to balance factions on a quarterly basis is missing the plot. Would you rather have a game that never got patched? Also, all of the balance changes are geared for competitive play. If you are playing casually just ignore them.
I play OPR with my son-in-law. He has a lot of GDW models while I print the OPR ones for myself. He appreciates being able to use the models he's collected and painted over the years without the need to buy an encyclopedia (his words) every couple of years. He also likes the alternating unit activation (no risk of a huge alpha strike if you aren't the first player) and the simplified combat resolution.
No reason you can’t do both!! But yeah, I get were you’re coming from They did have frequent rules changes - but it doesn’t matter as free rules and digital
I made the switch after eighth edition 40K started suffering from the rules churn, and have never looked back. We've played the Kill Team Arena scenarios with Grimdark Future Firefight and several games of Grimdark Future with various factions and had a lot of fun. It's also the only way I could play my non-Primaris Ultramarines and have any chance of having an enjoyable game (or a game at all). I can also use my Mantic models. They even have community-made army builder lists for Horus Heresy!
My Son and I played a series of games of 40k in 10th.. Probably 6 or 8 since it came out. It was just getting tedious. All the friends that he used to play casual 40k with have dropped 10th and moved on to Magic the Gathering. I was his last 40k partner and we were on the verge of giving up on it. We decided to try a Boarding Action game, but on a lark played it using OPR Grim Dark Future Firefight rules. It was a ton of fun. Totally revitalized our table top gaming plans. We'd been considering breaking out or old Fantasy armies and playin Old World, but the 400 pages of rules was just so daunting. After our success with OPR my Son suggested we pick up the Oathmark books and try that system. I ordered them and we're really looking forward to trying that system out. GW provided us years of fun, but breaking out of the GW universe and trying new things is very refreshing. I strongly suggest everyone should try other systems.
This might work for me. In my group, I'm the only one who paints/builds models, and I have a hard time keeping up with large list sizes. Thanks for the suggestion!
I already made the switch due to OPR being much more open to whatever you have in hand as they also offered 2d paper miniatures to play with for certain armies and for some that don't you can substitute them for other existing miniatures. I also appreciate how lore agnostic OPR is. My favorite army is a mix of DAOU and Robot legions (their versions of Tau and Necrons).
I like that you addressed and provided solutions with my main sticking point on OPR: getting people to play. there is a lot of grumbling about wargear and army size in 40k right now so that can definitely serve as a selling point.
Our group added OPR to our game systems during 8th Edition 40k, when we realized we needed a simpler and less expensive system for those in the group, who were new or played rarely. When 9th Edition 40k launched, we had nearly completely switched to GF and Firefight. Last year I played 3 games in one day, 1500 pts, 2000 pts and 4000 pts each. Try this in 40k! I even played Havoc Brothers against Fantasy Ogers in GF Firefight! That´s the beauty of a system, wherer rules are compatible!
Myself and my friends all moved to grimdark future from 40k mainly because the constant updates and edition changes, which is too much and expensive to keep up with and as casual gamers our group can quickly build up a force of GDF using their free army builder which is by far the easiest army builder I've ever used, I also have used my 40k catachan to switch over to GDF and I'm never going back. We also swapped out Warhammer for Mantics Kings Of War as its a far more easier rank and file system, but we haven't tried OPR's Age of Fantasy which might prove better, we'll see. Love your videos and content btw, also great beard. 😉🤘
Some friends and I made the jump about a year ago. I haven't really looked back. We hit a few wrinkles now and then (like the command squad thing), but we're just playing amongst ourselves for fun so we tend to just tweak things to whatever works for us.
Hello. I´m since the end of the 8th Edition in the hobby. I had begun to collect and to paint my space wolves and when it was close battleready, came the release of the 9th Edition. So I needed to learn and buy new rules... My passion is more at the painting, than in playing 40k and so every time it was hard for me because i´d forgotten the rules at every Match. Next week I wil start a try with my sons in OPR and im absolutely happy with the army-builder and the simple rules. I will give my Sons of Votan their first Time in Battle and Im very happy about the simple Rules, so I dont have to learn their special Rules in 40k! All in all I think, OPR is an wonderful addition to Warhammer 40k for people like me and I´m very happy about it!
"everyone agrees, GW models are way better than their rules" ... agreed!
You could use the "Veteran Squad" from GF as your Cadian Command Squad. Veteran Squad are 5 model, can have a medic, radio, a company standard and lots of special weapons. Cheers.
That's what I did too :)
OR...if you turn off the competative validation you could make the command squad from heroes.
A squad of 5 Veterans is only allowed to take 1 medic/standard/vox though. However, you should just take vox for the "Command Squad" and put the medic and standard in an Infantry blob anyway, as they work better there imo.
yeah I tried that but maybe I'm using the list builder false but I can only give the veteran squad a medicor a standard or a radio. right?
What’s GF
The list of equivalent GW models is on the Onepagerules wiki.
It's really nice to see someone saying how good the army builder is for OPR, it doesn't get nearly as much love as it deserves, I hope you have fun playing :)
PLUS it informs you when something got updated!
I can't find this page. Sorry, I'm dumb
Yeah, but they still don't have a proper equivalent for a lot of stuff. For example, my Death Korps of Krieg army doesn't have Chimeras, I use Centaurs for transports. Grim Dark Future doesn't really have an equivalent for the Centaur since the profile for the Light APC was clearly centered around being based off the Chimera.
That wiki is really helpful in understanding the equivalents; among other information etc. Been trying to get into War Games, specifically 40k; but I just don’t have the time to learn everything in 10th edition etc. Plus I’d rather not give GW my money.
This video was made for me. I have been troubled by the 10th edition change, for me it was a couple of weeks after I was finally able to get a Leviathan box. One of the hardest things in this hobby is saving, buying, and then having everything change was a horrible feeling. I love what OPR does for this game, keeping the rules costs down, allows us to play your game, not learn it over and over and over.
OPR is the way to go. We switched years ago, and never looked back. We even came up with some "battle tactics" to do during the game, which adds a lot of strategy.
And with the number of legacy models that are being turfed from 10th edition, I'm optimistic that I could potentially cajole some space marine players to dip their toes in.
Then you should try Firefight by Mantic games instead. Much better, original universe, original gameplay.
9th came out when I started collecting. I used the opportunity to buy 8th edition rules and codex books on the cheep. That, plus a3d printer, and I'm playing for next to nothing.
I've never been in 40k, but instead I directly chose OPR. The fact I didn't know if I would like to wargame, made me think directly about the free solution. And I love it. Now we are a group of friends entering the hobby trough OPR
Same
Lucky, I'm struggling to get local 40k players to try it. I've played previous editions of GDF and it's just more fun. I also prefer the alternating activation
@@batingbunnies I agree with liking alternating activations, it just feels so much nicer than waiting for your opponent for 10-20 min while they do there turn.
I started building just prior to 10th. With the release of 10th the majority of things I had already purchased became pointless, so I started 3d printing instead and moved onto printing other things while keeping up with the lore. I finally got the itch to build nids and attempt painting some of my old resin printed terminators with hammers and shields. I saw the 38 miniatures starter set with terminators and nids remembering the earlier excitement about the possibility of shrikes coming to plastic to go with the new prime with wings only to find out that the new prime sucks and nothing in the box was particularly useful together or for the 2000 point tournament list I picked after I got sad from the winged prime. I was going to build, purchase and print some models for casual play to learn the invasion fleet mechanics with, but just trying to find out between wahapedia and data cards which point listings are fully current is far more effort than it should be. At this rate, GW has wasted enough of my time, I almost want to outfit 2000 points of recasts out of spite.
Made the jump to OPR after 40k 8th became yet another cycle of constantly making books/cards redundant, using rules to promote new models, and generally being a convoluted mess of a system. Never once thought about going back, it's such a straight-forward and flexible system which lets you use whatever models you like on the table. And the web-app army builder is now just great.
"Made the jump to OPR after 40k 8th became yet another cycle of constantly making books/cards redundant, using rules to promote new models, and generally being a convoluted mess of a system."
What are you talking about? That wasn't true about 8th edition at all. I still maintain that 8th Edition 40k was the best edition overall in terms of gameplay. It was 9th edition where they started bringing back all the rules bloat from 7th edition.
@Commodore22345 Only thing I could think was updating the Space Marine Codex and later psychic awakening.
We converted our whole play group to OPR. No one was invested in 40k anymore 'cause of the frequent rule changes, prices for rules and army books and unbalanced gameplay and stale ruleset (especially the I-go-you-go mechanic). The whole hobby was in danger to just wither away. But OPR brought fresh wind in. Games are now quicker and thanks to the alternating activations more engaging and interesting from a tactical point of view. Plus no more buying an overpriced rule or army book every few years that quickly becomes out-of-date and obsolete and collects dust on the shelf. OPR is one of the best things to happen to wargaming in the last few years (just my two cents).
To me, this OPR game sounds a lot like Bolt Action. The amount of figures and points ranges seem to reflect that was the influence for it. Another advance with historicals is that the figures don't change and your British paratroopers don't suddenly have new special rules or some crazy point change that just messes up your whole list.
When you're dealing with smaller forces, you can afford, store and keep up with multiple forces more easily.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 There are definetly some similarities between OPR and BA, which we also play and enjoy. Maybe this contributed to the success OPR had in our group. In the advanced rulebook of GDF there is also an option for random turn order just like in BA, but for now we stick with the alternating activations.
Alternating activation is really the only advantage that Grimdark Future has over 40k. The rest of the system is just too simple for my taste. I've tried it and my overall opinion of it is that it's a great beginner system for introducing someone to miniature wargaming, but it won't satisfy someone looking for a system with more tactical depth.
@@Commodore22345 I would say it depends. From my view GDF offers more tactical depth because the turn order forces me to constantly evaluate my next move and everything is in constant flux. Threat-Levels of enemy units are constantly changing (has already fought in melee once this turn so only hits on 6s, has already acitvated this turn so no more imminent attack from them to fear and so on). However - and this is where I agree with you - 40k has more factionwide special rules and therefore there are more strategic decisions to make while list building, especially since GDF doesn't have weapon strenghts and wounds.
9:48 it’s almost like GeeDub is goosing the points to make it so we have to buy more models to play at standard point levels.
Yes, that was what I was implying. Thanks for watching!
I really appreciate this video and as someone who has collected GW minis for 30 years I’ve never been able to embrace the game itself. I just don’t have the spare mental energy to keep up with the increasingly frequent rules changes. I have been considering OPR for a while now but I haven’t acted on it yet! Thanks for the video! 👍
This was the case for my friend, who had been sitting on a collection for years without ever taking the plunge, as the 40k system just overwhelmed him with its bloated mass. He was able to hop into a nice 1500pt game (you never really use more than 10 units in a list) and actually feel that fantasy you have as a kid of pushing an army around the table.
Absolutely 👍 I think there is a large contingent of people who enjoy the GW models and lore but are just swamped by the complexity of the game. For me it is specifically how frequently they change the rules. Makes me not want to invest the time in learning them in the first place 🤷🏼♂️
The complexity, scale and its unfriendly to n00b nature kept me away from 40k for 3 decades. I got pushed towards killteam which YES is smaller & skirmish size but DOES offer complexity. Nowhere near as bad as full 40k but getting the season boxes for killteam is farcical. So limited, sells out in seconds and youre either at the mercy of scalpers or wait 4-6 months for the seperate release of the teams, codex and terrain. Despite its issues, killteam is worth a look
same here.
@maddokminis I was a noob and you are correct but we get called dumb for not immediately understand all of the bloat. I love playing both but I will say opr games go so much quicker for me so that means more games
My wargaming journey truly started with OPR as a result of loving the GW models and universes but hating the rules. It's been a blast since then, and now I'm even at a place where I'm interested in designing my own games. Fun stuff!
I've played 40k since 2nd edition and switched to Grimdark Future after the rules bloat and hectic release schedule that spiralled out of control.
It saved wargaming for me and my playgroup, when playing a handful of games of 40k each year it's not feasible to buy new books and learn new rules each time... It just ended up with with us not playing it at all.
Now it's a joy to bring out the models again! 😊
So I've only played one or two games of 40k, but have played other wargames since 2015, so this question is purely out of curiosity. If your group switched over to a new rules system, why didn't you guys just stick to an older edition?
Cheers! I can’t tell you how pumped I am about OPR. Such a breath of fresh air.
You could also build a custom unit with the points' calculator, or look at one of the custom armies to see if you can find a good fit for your Cadian Command ;)
This. I don't play GW or OPR games, so I'm not an expert and I'm happy to be corrected if wrong, but my understanding is that in OPR games, points are calculated for stats and abilities, meaning you can create any unit you can imagine, work out the points and thus things are really well balanced. I hear a lot of complaints that GW has a massive balance issue in their games, but in OPR if a model has a certain movement/toughness stat and certain abilities, it will always cost the same points regardless of faction
I've played 40k since 2nd edition and switched over to OPR a few years ago; never looking back. The game is the right level of crunch for me, and I love alternating activations. There are modular extra rules (like command points and stratagems) if you want to add complexity, and a really solid points calculator so you can easily do homebrew to fill in gaps (for example there's no really great equivalent for the Neurotyrant). Oh, and it's FREE, so no more expensive codexes that get errata'd on day one.
It's not a perfect game (the way it handles Morale is a little wonky imo), but for me it really captures the nostalgic feeling of being a teenager and playing 3rd or 4th edition.
I keep telling people that it feels like playing 3rd/4th ed...but with alternating turn that really keeps the engagement high.
And yes, as a person who keeps losing his tanks to morale, I agree the morale is wonky.
By the way. With regards to figures and gaming, my son was interested in Bolt Action. So I bought a rule book and proxied in our 40k figures, him with his AM and I with my DAR. Clearly a squad based game we have to play a few more to decide if we really want to get into it, but your Sci-fi figures are not restricted to that role. His AM were Germans and in a 1000 points he fielded a Stug, several squads and a mortar and MMG. I fielded bigger squads a Falcon as a Churchill and another unit as a Humber MKIII armoured car. So don't let your imagination be limited by what your forces look like. We even used our FoW markers for pining, planned barrage and down/dug in markers.
Excellent choice.
AFAIK, you can create your own units with their rules and even armies with the army builder from OPR. It then calculates the points cost for you... ;)
I opted out of the GW eco system 2 years ago and got into OPR and am not looking back. I am playing more, spending less, and am having much more fun when playing than I ever did playing GW games.
I am using my GW minis alongside with 3D printed sculpts from OPR and other creators and honestly feel I have rediscovered the joy of wargaming, without getting the feeling of being nothing but a cash cow. I have become a patron of OPR in January 2022. I opted for the higher tier, that provides around 40-50 miniatures in STL form every month for the armies they release themselves.
By now, I have collected STL files for 7 full fledged armies for less than the price of a starter box like Leviathan and one codex. I have printed more than 500 models (so my pile of opportunity is growing even faster than before), but as a single infantry sized model literally costs less than one Euro to print, even when factoring in the cost for the 3D printer, the resin, and accessories, this is a win-win situation for me.
The big advantage of the OPR rules, is that you can easily play with just basic rules, or “competition” rules, that come close to the complexity of GW rules, but with a much more modern and fluid game design (alternative activation).
Also, a 2.000 points OPR game typically takes no longer than 1,5-2 hours, so more than one game on a game night is a possibility.
"pile of opportunity" I see what you did there 😂😂😂
Convincing your friends to play OPR is way harder that it may seem to begin with.
I tried frankly quite hard to get in some trial games of this *free* game and yet people get super defensive when it comes to warhammer.
When people invest a lot of time and money into a thing, it can feel like part of their identity. Consequently, criticizing the game or even the company can feel like criticizing them. They forget GW's goal is to maximize profits.
The really sad part is when your gamming group just give up on playing Warhammer and prefer to not play amything. They don't even want to try OPR or play Warhammer, just this really weard state of "hate to GW and any alternative".
Sunken cost fallacy
I hear ya. You may want to try out a different store if the option is available to you. That's how I found some players.
@@Javimoni Really- what is up with that? I had a similar group at a game store I went to a while back. Not only with 40k, but some had 2, 3, even 5 warhammer fantasy armies sitting in boxes for nearly a decade like it was a badge of pride. Never looked at other fantasy games or thought about selling them.
It's all about OPR. The adv rules add a lot to the base game. They are written in such a way that you don't need to use them all at the same time. You can cherry pick the ones you like and still have a fun balanced matchup.
I love the modularity of the advanced rules - you and your group can pick and choose which ones you’d like to use in your games. Thanks for watching!
In particular the Bolt Action style random activation adds quite a bit without really adding any record keeping or complication. For instance it makes Ambush deployments kind of interesting by not letting anyone know if a unit can get a charge off or not. Compare that with the endless mucking about with overwatch rules in 40k editions.
OPR looks like a nice system, but since I don't have a massive investment in GW models I'm skipping over to Mantic's Firefight. Love that ruleset.
the good news is that mantics stuff also falls in line with it pretty well!
I play my Mantic Plague army as an Infected Colonies army in GrimDark Future as well as using it in Deadzone and Firefight. I also have a huge Mars Attacks army that GrimDark Future brought back to life.
@@sitrucsimian5450 I love Mars Attacks! Do you have any photos of your army? It sounds wicked.
@@ianmasica3933 It’s pretty cool. It’s from the Mantic Mars Attacks game. I have huge stompy robots, flying saucers, mutated giant bugs and a ton of martians. One of my favorite things about it is the martians all came with clear plastic helmets to put on after painting them.
@@sitrucsimian5450 That's awesome! I hope the Ack Attack squad serves you well.
Having just been in a 40k 10th edition tournament, I was just about ready to call it quits on the entire 40k system. I'll definitely be looking in to OPR and Grim Dark Future
Started 40K with a friend recently and we are both pretty new to it. We were so overwhelmed by everything, that we spent most of the first time playing reading and trying to figure out what was a valid move and what was not. We switched up to OPR (after watching one of your videos) and were able to quickly run through three games one late night. We are going to run OPR games to start and slowly introduce 40K back into our future games, once we are able to get a better understanding. Keep up the great videos.
Already made the switch (but we play Firefight - the Killteam equivalent). I only get to play a couple of times/year with a close group of mates - I don't have a local club - so we wanted something that is easy to learn, with the option of adding in as many additional rules as we want to add more complexity over time.
It ticks all the boxes for us. Low cost of entry. Less time to learn. Amazing army builder + non bloated rules meant that a guy who'd never played wargames before was making competitive AND themed lists after one game. The army builder is incredibly intuitive - unit/weapon's special rules actually bring up a small popup when tapped/clicked on, which makes rule checking incredibly quick.
I would recommend it to anyone who is a bit tired of 40k - there's nothing to lose. Rules are free, and only cost £5 if you want the full rulebook. Also that free army builder :P
Very cool , I did the same for the Leviathan box. I converted them to use in the 3rd edition OPR. Works perfectly 😉. Thanks for the video.
I am blessed with a fairly active Grimdark Future community in my city. We do tournaments every other month and we typically play at 3000pts
Love OPR. I’ve been a $10 supporter on their Partron for going on a year. I own most of their army STL packs and have really enjoyed being about to print, paint, and play Firefight Teams whenever the urge strikes me. I currently have 10 different teams, 8 of which are OPR official model prints. I just finished printing and painting a Battle Brothers army at 2k and am in the process of a Wormhole Demon army. I love the game. In the case of games like Legion, I can use the models and the mood but not have 150 cards scattered across the side or bottom of the table. It’s an army sheet and models. Fast, easy, and satisfying. I highly advise it!
Only thing I hate is that the last unit on a gdff list (the 3 point 'heavy' unit) is usually in the last batch of models for an army. Raptor riders, destroyer sisters, rat ogers.
But it's fun just to make and paint a single squad.
I've never tried 40k, I was just considering Necromunda or Kill team instead, just something small, cheep, quick, easy and fun for nice evening game with friends. But I directly chose OPR when I saw your video some time ago. Great inspiration. I realized, that it's actually my game and my rules. It's just completely on me what model I choose, how I define it's stats, what rules I accept and how many dices I'll need.
I think that maybe people forgot that it's just a game and only rule is to have fun...
What I do to get my friends involved is I have several 1000 point armies for different races that I 3d print and paint up (fantastic for trying painting different models) and all they have to do is turn up and pick a team :D
A few folks at my Local Game Store (myself included) got waaaayy too hyped about the idea of 10th edition being simpler and more accessible than 9th. We all got big boxes of new models, started theorycrafting 2k lists and whatnot. Then when we started actually playing the game the dreaded realization that we actually just weren't having fun and had gotten into a huge hobby hole for a game we didn't like started to settle in. OPR has been an absolute lifesaver since we're in it for the lore and hobby and beer and pretzels fun of chucking dice and hanging out. OPR gives us that where 10th asks us to chase the meta and buy hundreds of dollars of rulebooks.
When we gathered with online friends during summer, one of them brought the tenth edition rulebook. She and another were 40k players, but the other one got tired of the constant changes and I made him discover OPR rulesets prior to this online with Tabletop Simulator.
In 15 minutes, they both made their army lists, chose their models and started the game. It was a classic ork vs space marine battle, with three dreadnoughts managing to barely survive the endless waves of greenskins and goblin artillery. Watching them actually play an IRL game of OPR made me actually want to get miniatures of my own, what years of WH40K videos and battle reports never managed to do.
I started with firefight, currently learning that with my son. The bigger army lists are what I plan to hit up once we get the basics under our belts
7:23 to answer this question there is a TH-cam channel called @WarbossFitz. Where he talks about all factions and their crossovers to 40K while doing army/unit builds. And also does army/unit breakdowns in what each unit comes with etc.
I grew up with WH40K 2nd Edition rules and I remember that back in the days a Space Marine army was not really big. For 2K points for example you could lead about 38 infantry only models (incl. 3 characters) into battle. If you take a vehicle with you it would be even less models. In 10th edtion, although I have already 4 vehicles in the list, I still have about 63(!) infantry models to take with me (including 3 characters too). That's an incredible difference! And that are not only small and cheap units, thery are mostly standard and elites.
A friend recommended One Page Rules already to me and I also saw some videos about it recently. I think I will give them a go and will try them out. Thank you for your video here. This direct comparison, especially with the points was very interesting for me!
I am really glad you made this video. I just finished a battle report for Grimdark Future. I couldn't decide what I wanted to play (40K or OPR). In looking at 40K, I honestly found myself thinking...where do I pick this back up at? Where did I leave off? Then I started thinking, by the time I release the video next week it will be outdated with the new Space Marine Codex.
This led me to building an army and playing Grimdark Future at 2k points. The list builder is incredible and everything for my faction printed on one page. It has a lot of depth as well with weapon options and overall the game was just plain fun to play.
I appreciate you sharing as you'll definitely get more views than my little channel. My son and I really enjoyed playing it!
I've been doing this since early one in my mini's hobby time. The freedom of OPR just makes a world of difference when it comes to building models and lists. I've even gotten back into Gunpla knowing I can use them in OPR games and been getting into scratch building too! OPR's rules and army builder are a major factor in me finally getting into this hobby after watching it from the side lines for years, and I thank Jesus for them. I'm still having fun!
11:40 - You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. To that proverb, I have always said, "but you can feed them salt." A friend who owns horses heard me say it once and after a pause said, "that's right, actually."
Feed them enough salt, they will drink the water.
Thank you for the video, Uncle, some very good points raised. I returned to 10th after 2nd edition like 2 decades ago - it was initially fun but just no. It takes hours to play and the continuation of rules and points changes with the incurrent spending associated with that has turned me off. We start Grim Dark Future next month :)
As a newbie to wargaming I tried really hard to get into 40k/AoS. However, I found the rules just didn’t click for me and I really didn’t enjoy the game despite really enjoying the lore and models a ton. So it was disappointing and frustrating to me I wasn’t able to enjoy what many people perceived as one of the main parts of 40k. That was until I found One Page Rules, which I found I enjoyed so much more than what GW makes. The more fast-pace turns and easier mechanics are a much better sell from being a lot less overwhelming.
I'm a fan of OPR and your own musings. I'm currently teaching some students about wargaming and a part of me is wondering if I should direct them to OPR instead of GW games.
OPR has become more relevant to me since the launch of the new Space Marine Codex. I have 4 space marine codices and more BA codices all 20-45e each as editions got more expensive. I look at these hard backs and the sunk cost they represent and I hear a voice in my ear whisper 'OPR', 'Grimdark Future' and I'm starting to listen more.
With Grim Dark Future they can get the rules on their own for free. That lower barrier to entry is going to be KEY with students.
I made the switch to opr I think about a year ago ish and it has completely revived my love for minitures and wargaming. There's 2 main points that make me love opr
1) the community loves seeing "custom" armies in the sense of like homwbrew rules or seeing what people use as stand in for models
2) I love that the rules are simple and easy to pick up and that you can use whatever models you can get your hands on like I actually use 1/144 scale gunpla kits for titan lords army
Love your videos! With my group we basically hopped over Age of Fantasy: Skirmish during the last year and we are loving it. The only one thing I would point out is that (in AoF:S and during last year, at least) changes do seem to occur and do seem to be rather frequent (from memory, even on a monthly basis). Small things, like a 5 point modification here and there, but 5 points that could make your 250 point list invalid. Moroever, they don't always seem to be explicitly mentioned in updates notes. We literally started double-checking lists right before starting the game to make sure we were all using the same point values. Having said that, maybe this was due to ramping up to third edition and they testing differents things. The game is still awesome!
The creator of OPR said in his livestream that those who enjoy the rules being stable for 2 years are going to have to be patient while they rebalance. Grimdark future and Age of fantasy are now 100% the same rules wise. You can battle them with no problem now. The points are equal now. This is the first major update in 2 years. There will be some fine-tuning as he gets feedback. He says he doesn't plan and more major changes for atleast 6 months.
The One Page Rules Wiki lists minis from GW and other companies and what OPR armies they can stand in for.
The Cadian Command leader can be your company leader. The others can be added to other units, most units can take one of either a medic, a field radio, or a company standard.
OPR has come a long way in a short time of building a base of customers that like their products, business practices, and want to play their games not just because they are the only game around or the only one, they can find players for. I hope that the community of players continues to grow and keeps providing an alternative for people looking to actual play wargames that does not require a massive expenditure of time and money just to get to the point where you can play a game at the recommended point value.
Everybody should play whatever game they find fun, but I don't think a lot of people who play GW games, have enthusiastically chose it on its merits. Rather I think lots of GW players don't know other options exist or can't get anyone in their circle to play something else. For many GW players they are operating under the assumption that GW's predatory business model, clunky rules, and high cost of entry/maintenance is just the "fun tax" they have to pay to enjoy their hobby.
I'm glad you're making a video on this, as honestly this is the only way GW sees the disapproval in customers anymore. They do something, people don't like it. People make videos talking about other games, GW realizes they are pushing away customers.
I am also currently looking into OPRs, getting a rulebook and maybe some of those paper terrains. It's just a mess of a list to look through and see what PDFs I need to buy though. Multiple rulebooks, advanced rulebooks, mission packs, campaigns?
I'd actually want to try OPR but locally my area is basically "40k or you play by yourself" at basically all of the 3-4 game stores in the area. Like even suggesting OPR, despite everything, would get the stink-eye, and I don't know why because it's the same models just better rules.
Their own models though... are a bit pricier than I'd have expected (the physical models I mean, not the STLs, as I don't have a 3D printer to compare cost of buying it ready made versus materials to print it out). Nearly as much as GW :(
Just like you, uncle Atom, I typically play skirmish. With OPR it's simply amazing. Now I can do "have models, will play" - getting into fullscale Warhammer was a whole 1 year+ adventure for me before I could get one game in, for OPR skirmish and full-scale, I was able to do it after just 1 month of assembling and painting.
We switched quite a while ago and there is no regret. We actually played a few games in a 30k setting and made our own Primarch models. After playing OPR for a while balancing self-made characters is fun and not as hard as it sounds. All it takes is a few willing friends.
Uncle Adam, I own a small game store in my hometown which I opened up this Feb 2024. I carry GW products and games and although there is a large group of players that support GW there are some that have become infuriated with the changes to 40K and have quit the game. I have been promoting OPR for years, and I played only a handful of games because not many people are willing to try it or convert. The literal name, One Page Rules, makes them laugh, until they throw dice. I have converted a few people that still buy GW models but use the OPR system. We support and play it at the shop. My friends that wanted to quit due to Eldar changes, Imperial Guard changes and just recently the death of the Deathwatch army. (A buddy has over 3000 pts in DW and he nearly quit the hobby but is looking into OPR now.) I thank you for sharing this video and OPR in general. Your videos keep the hobby alive to me personally and others. Thank you.
I love one pages rules, because it goes so much faster and when I play with my 11 year old son he actually understands the rules.
A good, free army builder is a big plus for any game. Back a few years a game that used Easy Army was easier to get into than one where you had to muck about in BattleScribe. Of course it helps if the games army rules are reasonably simple in the first place.
And that in itself is a positive. Too often I’ve seen older players gaming younger ones with “gotcha” moments
I dont think ill do the switch, personally. Let me preface with this, i dont buy 40k books. I pirate or use other means to get the info. I dont really buy gw models, i 3d print similar proxies. I dont like how gw can be, with their edition life cycles and lack of play testing.
However
A: i have a hard enough time meeting and playing with people consistently enough, asking them to try this niche game would really only alienate me more
B: its simple and fast, of course and that can be great. But for me, its a little too simple. I play alot. I feel as if i would get tired of it fast
C: armies lack the identity of what they are in 40k, in my opinion. Its a 40k knock off, but playing i felt that the armies flavors, the thing that got me into 40k, is severely lacking
D: i like having alot of models on the board. Its cool, it looks cool.
Dont take me wrong, what opr is doing is great, simply not for me
the OPR wiki has pretty decent ties to other model lines (including GW), as in it tells you which model is a guardsman etc. I just sold 4 40k lots, and decided to switch to OPR. What switched me over.. wasnt OPR it was battletech. I opened the battletech alpha strike box and was super angry because it made me aware of how bad GW has been treating us throughout the years. THen I found OPR and started 3d printing and im super stoked.
Exactly what I've started doing, you can still by GW models to use and you can buy the books if you want for lore and cool pictures. And the OPR online list builder is crazy good!
I use OPR when trying to entice my friends into playing
Just so much simpler to explain and get into killing minis quickly
But I think it was Discourse minis? An Irish woman, who said it pretty well I think,
Most people play OPR but are thinking about Warhammer
I feel the simplicity of OPR is both it’s strength and weakness
I think OPR lacks some depth that impedes tactical play
But saying that, I really don’t get to play all that often
But I think about playing a lot🤣
I never understood the complexity argument. "tactical play", i was an avid 40k tournament goer for years. There is only like four different tactical styles of army that actually wins games. They even have strategems etc in the advanced rules in OPR.
thanks. I'll look into that. I probably haven't utilised the game to it's fullest extent. I suppose I was actually comparing Kill Team with Firefight. I find Firefight is fast and dirty, compared with KT which even though its a skirmish game, I find is still very involved. at least to this casual player. respect to you mate, if you're a tournament player. I can only dream. :)@@telleryoutube4458
I play the Solo rules. As a Dad of 3 with varying timetables I've been able to get more games in solo than ever. It also uses the same rules so when I do sneak a quicker game in with friends I am up to speed!
Yes you should. OPR is a far better game and gets better the more you play it. I've been playing various OPR games for over a year now. Your last point is so important - we need to make the games we want to play. I've switched to OPR and will never go back. Whether you like it or not is a matter of personal taste, but OPR is just a far superior game to play on the table and all the elements around it, which you talk about in terms of how the game is presented, are so much better than GW's predatory practices. I'm close to buying a 3D printer to take advantage of the stls OPR provides too.
There are no good reasons to stick with GW at this point.
Get that printer, you will kick yourself for waiting so long. Like I did.
@@nathangerardy2669I would love one but just need a garage or something for ventilation etc - hopefully moving house next year and that’s top of the list though!
I have a ton of custom-built vehicles for my Imperial Guard which were created using GW's Vehicle Design Rules back in 2002-2004: tanks, APCs, artillery, recon vehicles, etc. Using OPR's Army Forge list builder, and combining the Human Defense Forces, Rebel Guerrillas, and Feral Guard lists, I've been able to adequately recreate all of them for use in Grimdark Future. I can't say enough good things about OPR's army list builder. It's spectacular. 😲
Ever since I switched from 40k to Battletech it feels like I left an abusive relationship. 😂
In the one page rules wiki. For each game/setting there is a page called "game name/setting name miniatures". And you will find a conversation table for gw models.
I wouldn't say I am in the "refuse to switch" camp, I am thinking of giving OPR a try, but for me I want a MASSED battle game, capital letters as emphasizing the mass. I want a table packed full of miniatures, there are plenty of skirmish level games out there already. It is expensive and more work but if you can afford it or can acquire models via other means (2nd hand, 3D printing etc) then the sight of a fully arrayed 2,000 or 3,000 point battle can't be beat in my opinion. Now, if you can play OPR at 4,000 points, then that would be interesting......
Rhats absolutely no problem and i regularly played and play OPR with 4k points and it is so much fun! Especially since you dont have to remember any unit specific stratagems and such stuff so i actually think its more suited for a huge army than 40k is
Technically speaking you could field a million points. It's kind of the same as GW, in that there are some recommended point values to start with, after that the only limit is what you agree on and the limitations of table space. All of the organizational rules scale infinitely. Like there is no "rule of 3" the number of duplicates you can take is simply determined by the point limit, the higher the limit the more dupes you're allowed. Same idea with heroes and other organizational rules. And even those organization rules are marked optional, you can throw them out the window if you like (but balance might get wonky)
Sure you can, you just need to agree on a point level with your opponent.
In the advanced rulebook, there are rules for games over 3000 points (called 'Apocalypse Mode'). It has speed-up rules for movement, shooting, and cover. It's absolutely a game you can crowd a table with and the simplified rules make playing such games go by with less bookkeeping than other wargames.
One of the guys on the one page rules Facebook group regularly does 20,000 point game days. And they look so much fun..and they play in a quicker time than a 2000pt game of 40k haha
I've been playing Age of Fantasy and Grimdark Future for a couple of years now and I just love the gaming experience using those rules: The activation sequence, the special abilities, the new casting rules, etc. The game keeps getting better and the narrative has stronger elements in the current 3.0 edition. That said, sometimes I get to play with GW's rules and I have to admit that I really enjoy the experience too. Specially when it comes to the factions's "identity" game mechanics. In the end, I guess we're just fortunate to be able to play using both rules systems with the same miniatures. Everybody wins, right? Thanks for the great video Uncle Atom!
That quick point change, new books, editions and power creep is another reason I like MESBG (besides the fact it's a great system) is that the release are ultra slow. So, you have time to build up your force and the power creep is slower!
Even people who I know hate GW entirety and will never touch Warhammer again still give praise to MESBG.
I've recently gotten back into the hobby. I used play -well actually mainly PAINT, not play- WHFB 20 years ago. Then adult life and family happened, like it does with most of us.
Anyway, I got a printer a couple months ago and I'm itching to play.
OPR has been on my radar for a long time. And while I currently try to mainly limit myself to Kill Team units, I think that when a full army is assambled, I will try and find people to play OPR. I just don't see myself playing 2k-point games of 40k with dozens upon dozens of miniatures, and ever-more-complicated rules. The only thing the 40k universe has going for it is the fact that it has decades of cool lore to work with.
What don’t GW get. We want simple rules that don’t change every 5 minutes. We have lives outside of wargaming we can’t just read change after change. If I want to play on a Monday I don’t want to spend the day before revising and catching up on changes.
Simple rules make for boring games in many peoples opinion. The complexity means armies and units feel different.
Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man
The wife and I have been playing Combat Patrol and just adding similar cost units. Works pretty well, and great fun.
OPR looks extremely interesting. I haven't played 40k since mid 9th. Been playing AoS which I like way more. If I ever went back to sci Fi wargaming I'd use my old 40k models to play OPR.
OPR has fantasy rules, quick to get into, less fiddling around calculating rules. and it works, its fun.
Going for a game of Grim dark future this evening at a friend's house. We have a hard time limit of the last train home. Ever game of 40k we ever had finished early because it took too long, every game of Grim dark future has reached a satisfying conclusion. The game length means we actually play more often than we used to.
Have you considered Xenos Rampant? Albeit you are limited to one vehicle unless you house rule.
I went to a new hobby store about two years ago that had a sizeable 15+ "waiting for 10th edition" group. They played battletech, flames of war, and conquest- but they always talked about 40k, even while playing said games. So I brought up OPR and got a lot of positive chatter but most got evasive when I tried to pin down a date to demo the game or just flat-out didn't show up to play. The three people I did get to play it loved it, but never wanted to follow up on more games.
So I found another gaming store(much further away) and I've demo'd OPR and even have a small forbidden psalm group growing. I know the option isn't available to everyone, but always give other stores a look for possible interest.
Funny thing is that last week I got a notice on discord from the old store I went with people gripping about the recent 40k changes and asking where I was to play OPR. Nah, I'm good.
Goes to show that OPR has literally no staying power outside of just being contrarian 40k
@@ONIMOT100 Nah, its what the garden wall between wargaming and GW looks like.
@@reversegoat3260 Sounds like cope
My biggest issue with OPR is that it feels very flat across armies. The differences and intricacies are really sparce.
Yeah, a lot of armies feel kinda samey. That’s something that they have acknowledged and are working on. There are definitely some armies that feel rather unique though.
Sort of the price you pay for rules consistency and balance. Then again you don't have someone pulling some crazy rules combo out of their butt you never heard of either. :)
@@Dr_Disintegrator I am ok with those moments to a degree. As long as my opponent wasn't lying or intentionally hiding things, having some reactionary tools is a good thing. The I-GO-YOU-GO system helps a bit, but having a few more reactionary game rules and options, maybe design a system for Army Wide rules, would go a long way to differentiating things.
Waay back in the day, Warzone suffered from a similar issue. But it as a good game design that GW wished they could ever approach the greatness of. It did lack a lot of granularity that you see in many wargames that offer a player more indivudual customization, and finding that sweet spot between being dull and samey and too complex for its own sake is kinda hard to achieve with designs currently in print. You gotta dig deep into history to find the gems that failed, not because of their design, but because they couldnt compete with GW on the model front.
Try out the army creator. Just to add a little flair to your armies. You can create your own rules and abilities. Very easy to use. You have to be a patreon supporter for access. I've seen an Alien themed army. A Predators themed armies. The possibilities are endless. Been OPR patreon since 2021. The amount of 3d models each month is awesome. OPR is one of a very few creators that will do entire armies worth of models.
A very astute comment about the points values of units in games from a company that makes its money from models versus one that doesn't 🤔. The big problem, as you point out, is the same one facing people who want to break away from the WotC stranglehold and play something other than D&D - everybody plays the most popular game and inertia and laziness tends to keep it that way. Persuading your friends to invest time and effort into learning something new and different is a big hurdle 😔. Hope to catch you on Twitch later 👍
I think it’s a hurdle worth attempting, however - otherwise you’re stuck paying for GW rules over and over again. Thanks for watching!
Being able to take a ridiculous amount of guard bodies in a 1000pts is why I play guard, this seems to go against the flavour of what they are, but to each their own
It's just an value issue a 2000 grimdark game is roughly a 1000 point 40k game. Likewise a 4k game would be a 2k game. Because the point cost is calculated not arbitrarily set, having more point avoids fractional values. It's like a game where the base is 1000 health verses another one with 100 health.
I just did a 2500 point opr gaurd list and it has 50 assorted infantry (plus tanks and such), I have a 2500 point hive list ('nids) with 80 grunts ( and some other stuff). This is actually a pretty fun matchup with the gaurd trying to kill them before they are overwhelmed.
You get 10 Guardsmen for 120 points, so you can have 80 guys if you took just them. The conscripts are only 75pts for 10 guys, so that'd be 130 dudes. Compared to the Battle Brothers (Space Marines), whose 5 man squads at 150 points gets you about 30 guys, you can see it scales well between different armies.
We tried hard to play 40K at my local groupe but rules changed every time we played from index files, then one FAQ, then the tyrannide codex and then...TLDR rules and points changing all the time isn't fun. And i think we are just gonna go the OPR route, nobody cares to much about the competitive aspect of the game anyway. We just love a good or a terrible dice roll and troll one another. Grimdrak is perfect for narrative campaigns you can even switch to the skifmish rules to resolve some of the narrative. Like defend a shipwreck to get the ressources inside, next game you play skirmish in the shipwreck with an advantage or something for the player that won the previous game.
I've been meaning to give OPR a go for a while now. My gaming friends are pretty impenetrable when it comes to other games, but I've got a few looking into the hobby, so they'll be a blank canvas I can show GW & OPR, and ask which they prefer.
I only played Grimdark Future solo (in the beginning of the pandemic), but it was really fun.
And, more importantly, it works with multibased models (as per rules, explicitly "as long as it applies to all units"), AND scales down to 6mm really easily (just use centimeters instead of inches, no other mental acrobatics required).
They even have a point cost calculator for when you have a particular model that doesn't have a balanced and tested profile.
Great analysis! I’ve been thinking of OPR and Osprey Games. While I do love the 40K lore and product, it’s just not conducive to my play and model painting output. For $20 a pop, I can get different genres, artwork, and a new model agnostic game. I really do prefer GW models though. Middle Earth is a good old school feel GW game too.
whats that saying.. GWs models are fantastic and their rules are always garbage?
Been playing opr since 8th came out, the first thing that struck me about the game was just how much fun I was having playing it, quick battles and simple rules , just clicked with me
I played the 2.0 Grimdark Firefight rules, the skirmish game. It plays fast but is incredibly lethal, which I have mixed feelings about. Grimdark future's morale system quickly breaks a unit based on the video reviews I've seen, but tweaking that to be slightly more forgiving would really make me want to play it as a beer and prezel style wargame. I'm a kill team player primarily, and I could likely field a big army with my kill teams.
I've played a bunch of games of OPR, and have started to get back into 40k since 10e after about an edition and a half haitus. I plan on continuing to play both, as I feel they scratch a different itch. I'll do a list of pros and cons for both, from my perspective.
OPR Pros:
- Free (or very cheap) rules combined with low model counts allow for great ease of entry
- Fast games means you can be done a game of OPR in an hour or two without feeling rushed. We'll often play 2 games of OPR in the time it takes us to finish one game of 40k
- Alternating activations makes it so you dont sit around for 30 minutes watching your opponent roll dice without getting to do much.
- Model agnostic system is great for running whatever cool minis you can find out there.
- Simple rules are easy for new players to understand and quickly get into the game.
OPR Cons:
- Rule simplicity sometimes makes the game feel a little more flat than a more complex system
- Lower model count means that losing an important unit right away, or whiffing badly can more quickly snowball into hopelessness
- 4 turn games means that in effect you spend the first turn just getting into position, and then only have about 3 turns of action
- Characters often feel more like babysitters designed to buff your units than epic warriors in their own right. (This is a pro if you hate herohammer)
40k Pros:
- Larger model counts makes for epic looking and feeling battles. If you have a large collection you get to play with more toys at once, which is fun.
- Characters are often capable of bullying entire squads on their own, and feel cool and powerful to use.
- Tactical secondary objectives keep the game fresh and changing each turn.
- Individual units and armies each have their own special abilities, which helps them feel meaningfully different from each other.
- Emphasis on WYSIWYG can make remembering which units are what, as well as loadouts easier.
- Large existing community, as well as a thriving competitive scene for those who enjoy that.
40k Cons:
- Codexes mean paying a lot of money for your army rules
- No alternating activation can lead to situations where you watch your army get blown off the table in a turn before they even get to activate.
- Hundreds of units with unique profiles and rules makes balancing the game a nightmare.
- More models = more money in order to be able to play at all.
- More complex rules can make the game difficult for new players/groups to get into, if they dont have an experienced player to help them figure stuff out.
Overall I think I prefer 40k's gameplay, but OPR's business model/philisophy. If I didn't already have large collections of miniatures for multiple armies though, I would probably not be getting into 40k now. OPR is a great introduction into the wargaming hobby, and still very fun for vets, even if they intend to keep it as their primary game system.
GW make a game system that is in fact as clever as it's models are superb, it's complexity and ever shifting sands ensures individuals do not have enough time to become proficient with another system. Add to that the dominance within the discourse for competitive play and people fear straying from the path. I have recently been playing 1000pts games of 40k and it works fine. And I keep away from the tournament scene.
I think you're right about the strategy of overloading players so they simply don't even consider alternatives. DnD is very much the same in the TTRPG space; players there come to believe every game is a bloated and lengthy to learn as the 'main game', which cements their sunk-cost fallacy further.
@@mystecoregamesIt explains why D&D players generally don't consider any other ttrpgs, but rather try to cram Cyberpunk/Noir/WeirdWar/Scifi or any other genre into the D&D framework and somehow hope it works.
I've been all-in on OPR for a while now and even got into 3d printing for their models, but the rules have so much to offer. I can see how 40k's complexity can be compelling if you play often enough to keep your available army rules and strategems mentally handy and have a decent idea what your opponent's options are, but that kind of familiarity requires playing a whole lot more often than I'm able to. I feel like being able to make informed tactical game decisions has a learning curve I don't have time to climb.
OPR's complexity is scaleable especially with the full/paid rules. I get maybe two game sessions in per month but the rules are concise enough and abilities and weapon effects translate across army lists enough that I can juggle all the variables and play well. And as things get more familiar we can add in things like command points and secondary objectives to make the game a little deeper. I also like that fewer army specific surprise gotcha rules means your decisions on the battlefield matter a whole lot more than the fluffy rules behind your army. OPR feels like playing a game where everyone has all the rules up front where 40k can feel like playing Magic against someone with an entire deck you've never heard of.
Plus, free rules and army builder online. Hard to beat that.
I could see how the constant rules changes are frustrating but there were blatant balance issues that needed addressing.
As somone who trys to play competitively and very frequently. I like the fast changes.
I get that, but a bit of playtesting prior to the game's release would go a long way toward eliminating the need for these fast changes. But GW doesn't bother with that.
You're someone with a broken leg claiming that you like your new cast. It'd be better not to need the cast.
Competitive play ruined 40k. You can't change my mind.
I am completely done with all things GW, so I really appreciate the coverage of alternatives.
No more meta chasing, power creep, constant codex purchases, or 'you-go-I-go'? Games that don't take all day? Honestly OPR is the only way I'm getting into full-scale 40k at this point.
There is Meta chasing too. In every Game there is a "Meta" it just depends what you and your playgroup want from the Game. We recently did a OPR Tournament and there are armies which are better then others for sure.
For me it's both 40k and OPR. Both systems have positive and negative aspects.
@@Stevie28 when I say meta chasing, I don't mean one list being better than another. I mean people reconfiguring their armies every 6 months because of rule changes to follow the list that is the hottest for that short period of time.
OPR is definitely looking more and more appealing. I've been painting sisters for a while, and we got massive point cuts in the last update, which basically reduced my current collection from ~1500 points to 1000 points. I think my truly ideal scenario would be Combat Patrol with a little better support. A bunch of fans of Warmachine/Hordes in Mk III created a format called "Brawlmachine", a custom ruleset tweaked for 25 point games (75 points being the usual tournament format). It immediately took off, because it was fast, easy, and most importantly included a ban list for models that were just too powerful for the format to contain.
OPR might be the closest to that at the moment, even if I do find nickle-and-dime point costs to be a little irritating for when I just want to plunk some models on the table and play.
Yes 🙂
Got into OPR through family, my GF her sister and her sisters fiancé have all expressed an interest in tabletop war gaming and this 40K/AoS/WHFB but the major issue they found was cost of entry and rules. Particularly that the rule books and codexes are probably errata’d. So one evening I showed them OPR and we played some grimdark. I can even use my old firstborn and roll out older sets. Went great, played a few 1000pt games with some beers and snacks they loved it.
I've been disillusioned with 40k since 6th edition, but have kept playing it because of the great group of 40k friends I had. However, since 8th edition and the whole Primaris money grabbing, I've been looking for alternatives, also because my group of friends slowly stopped playing (we were basically just meeting to have a good time together, rather than play). I've learned about OPR some years ago and was thrilled by it, to the point of briefly subscribing to their Patreon, translating the GF rules in my language (some of my 40k friends are not well versed in English) and try to make my friends have a look at it, but to no avail, they still stay faithful to GW. Only one of them has tried GF and seemed interested, but with the coming out of 10ed I guess my chances have all but disappeared. And I refuse to play 10ed, because I can't stand anymore some GW practices, so I'm kind of in a blind spot right now. I guess I'll have to look in some gaming club or flgs, but being used to play only with friends, it won't be easy.
OPR is what I play with my nephews. It's fast and simple, and lets them play with their toys.
40k 10th is my first full 40k (been playing Kill Team since '18), and it's been a blast. I really love the attached unit system and the rules are just more dynamic. Alternating activations is the main selling point of the OPR ruleset.
Anyone thats is complaining about GW making changes to balance factions on a quarterly basis is missing the plot. Would you rather have a game that never got patched? Also, all of the balance changes are geared for competitive play. If you are playing casually just ignore them.
I play OPR with my son-in-law. He has a lot of GDW models while I print the OPR ones for myself. He appreciates being able to use the models he's collected and painted over the years without the need to buy an encyclopedia (his words) every couple of years. He also likes the alternating unit activation (no risk of a huge alpha strike if you aren't the first player) and the simplified combat resolution.
No reason you can’t do both!! But yeah, I get were you’re coming from
They did have frequent rules changes - but it doesn’t matter as free rules and digital
I made the switch after eighth edition 40K started suffering from the rules churn, and have never looked back. We've played the Kill Team Arena scenarios with Grimdark Future Firefight and several games of Grimdark Future with various factions and had a lot of fun. It's also the only way I could play my non-Primaris Ultramarines and have any chance of having an enjoyable game (or a game at all). I can also use my Mantic models. They even have community-made army builder lists for Horus Heresy!
My Son and I played a series of games of 40k in 10th.. Probably 6 or 8 since it came out. It was just getting tedious. All the friends that he used to play casual 40k with have dropped 10th and moved on to Magic the Gathering. I was his last 40k partner and we were on the verge of giving up on it. We decided to try a Boarding Action game, but on a lark played it using OPR Grim Dark Future Firefight rules. It was a ton of fun. Totally revitalized our table top gaming plans. We'd been considering breaking out or old Fantasy armies and playin Old World, but the 400 pages of rules was just so daunting. After our success with OPR my Son suggested we pick up the Oathmark books and try that system. I ordered them and we're really looking forward to trying that system out. GW provided us years of fun, but breaking out of the GW universe and trying new things is very refreshing. I strongly suggest everyone should try other systems.
This might work for me. In my group, I'm the only one who paints/builds models, and I have a hard time keeping up with large list sizes. Thanks for the suggestion!
Played our first game of OPR tonight. Really loved it!
I already made the switch due to OPR being much more open to whatever you have in hand as they also offered 2d paper miniatures to play with for certain armies and for some that don't you can substitute them for other existing miniatures.
I also appreciate how lore agnostic OPR is. My favorite army is a mix of DAOU and Robot legions (their versions of Tau and Necrons).
Started OPR skirmish level for my kids, works like a charm.
I like that you addressed and provided solutions with my main sticking point on OPR: getting people to play. there is a lot of grumbling about wargear and army size in 40k right now so that can definitely serve as a selling point.
Our group added OPR to our game systems during 8th Edition 40k, when we realized we needed a simpler and less expensive system for those in the group, who were new or played rarely. When 9th Edition 40k launched, we had nearly completely switched to GF and Firefight. Last year I played 3 games in one day, 1500 pts, 2000 pts and 4000 pts each. Try this in 40k! I even played Havoc Brothers against Fantasy Ogers in GF Firefight! That´s the beauty of a system, wherer rules are compatible!
Myself and my friends all moved to grimdark future from 40k mainly because the constant updates and edition changes, which is too much and expensive to keep up with and as casual gamers our group can quickly build up a force of GDF using their free army builder which is by far the easiest army builder I've ever used, I also have used my 40k catachan to switch over to GDF and I'm never going back. We also swapped out Warhammer for Mantics Kings Of War as its a far more easier rank and file system, but we haven't tried OPR's Age of Fantasy which might prove better, we'll see. Love your videos and content btw, also great beard. 😉🤘
Some friends and I made the jump about a year ago. I haven't really looked back. We hit a few wrinkles now and then (like the command squad thing), but we're just playing amongst ourselves for fun so we tend to just tweak things to whatever works for us.
Hello.
I´m since the end of the 8th Edition in the hobby. I had begun to collect and to paint my space wolves and when it was close battleready, came the release of the 9th Edition. So I needed to learn and buy new rules... My passion is more at the painting, than in playing 40k and so every time it was hard for me because i´d forgotten the rules at every Match. Next week I wil start a try with my sons in OPR and im absolutely happy with the army-builder and the simple rules. I will give my Sons of Votan their first Time in Battle and Im very happy about the simple Rules, so I dont have to learn their special Rules in 40k!
All in all I think, OPR is an wonderful addition to Warhammer 40k for people like me and I´m very happy about it!