@@anthonypatterson264 Yeah same, this type of audio quality actually triggers the hell out of my tinnitus, makes my ears ring really loud when I listen to it. I have no idea of when he's heading home.
This is why I quit league. All of my friends don’t actually enjoy the game, they are just addicted. I only ever hear people say negative things while playing it and it has a negative impact on people’s mentality.
That's why I stopped playing competitive multiplayer games when I got older, I'd rather play something single player with a nice story or have fun on co-op with friends
@@yaro_sem eh, the "soul" and the "mind' are great abstractions - we all have an intuitive concept of what they are despite not being able to articulate what they mean.
@@_WeDontKnow_ "check your superiority complex lmaoo" You just laughed at some dude because he has a superiority complex. I will add you too to our list of "superior people."
I was addicted to league until I realized playing with toxic aholes all day was turning me into a toxic ahole and I wasn't actually enjoying myself. Quit cold Turkey after that realization
Was also addicted to league a few years ago. Grinding ranked games day and night. But then I realized that shit is just toxic for me and my mental health. I still play league from time to time with the boys, but just for fun. League still is my most loved game although I hate it.
I played that for a bit and yeah... a community like that is NOT worth spending time in, you will either learn to deal with them, or you will actually turn into them. 99% of the time i would say it's the latter. I quit a lot of games for this same reason. If the community is bitter it's absolutely pointless to play a video game, which at the end of the day was designed to ENTERTAIN us. Not add to our frustration we have all day at work, or around the house. This is largely why i quit PvP in general, only ever got into the Garden Warfare series after Socom died. PvP usually = extreme high's and lows.
@@daveevans9684 Yeah you guys went through what i did a decade before you with Socom in 2002-2004. Sweating my ranking all night, ONE bad game, get killed by a low rank = massive deranking and anger. People yelling over the headset at one another in lobbies at 3am... it was fun in it's time, but i can't be doing that bs in my 40's lol. I gave up on it around 28 or 29. PvP i mean in general. It's all the same really, just varying levels of toxicity.
I was stuck playing games for about 5hrs a day. Then I got frustrated enough about my lack of progress that I stopped playing for about two weeks, and then resumed it again and now play for about 1.5hrs a day, been enjoying it more than ever. To clarify though, I did it because I read Dr.K's advice on vata minds and how our interest is so volatile. I think it also helps to not play the same game over and over, manage your interest (if you are vata) and know when to switch to a different game to keep them fresh and interesting.
I spent quite a lot of time analysing this problem. I've come up with four main reasons why people stop having fun with video games: -we're unhappy with our own life, it means that we think about playing only as a waste of time, as we could be doing something useful at the moment, it might happen every time we sit in front of our PC or console -we take too seriously the social construct, others tell us that we shouldn't enjoy playing video games when we're old, so we feel bad doing it -we play the games for other reasons than having fun, for example, I used to play League of Legends for the sole reason of wanting the time to fly faster, I wanted my problems to solve themselvesby letting the time go faster (it didn't work) -addiction of dopamine shots, we need to play games to feel like something happens in our life, but it takes away the happiness from everything else around us, this loop makes us go back to playing games without any need for dopamine, just for the sake of the addiction, so we play even when we don't need those shots Feel free to add more, I'll gladly learn something new, best regards!
That's pretty accurate, I'd say. Although I'm not a big gamer, there was a period of my life where I played Rocket League non stop just for the thrill (about 1100 hours or so). The gameplay is so fast and addictive because of it. But now the thrill is gone and I just can't play not only RL, but any other video game as well. It's that feeling like I have so much more interesting stuff to do that now is not the time to play games. Maybe I grew out of video games, maybe I just got sick of them. The most plausible explanation to me is that my mind needs to rest from video games. Perhaps only then I can go back and beat some that I wanted for a long time.
I’ve also contemplated this, my thoughts were very similar - but I would add this; bereft of typically useful skills or passions, video games with a ranked/difficult challenge model create a sense of pride and accomplishment not found elsewhere in one’s life. It can be the only thing that provides a feeling of confidence. Though just with any singular source of confidence, it’s a glass house.. fragile and teetering on the brink of destruction. It may end up being that one is insecure by their very own opulence.
@@turolretar Yeah you shouldn't ever force yourself to play a game for the sake of playing it. That's a very good way of getting burnout. Of course, you shouldn't let that stop you from picking up a game and play it, after all, how else are you gonna find that next Rocket League? But you should notice when a game's not getting your attention and put it down before you get sick of it. Maybe you've really out grown video games, or maybe you're an on off kind of guy, like me, who get's invested in a game for a few day, some maybe for longer, before putting it down for later and moving on to something else. Anyway's, wish you luck in overcoming that predicament you're in. Hope it all works out in the end.
For me, it's definitely an escape from the hopelessness of my real life. I'm actually making progress and accomplishing goals in games. And it's not like I haven't tried doing stuff IRL, but after running into brick walls over and over I just finally give up.
@@SuperLotus It was the same in my case. I escaped to League of Legends when I gave up one of my dreams. Now I understand my mind, and what I have to do to be happy. I'm a dreamer, and I need to try to achieve the highest possible goals. It's not about achieving them. Trying is the key word here. If I don't achieve my goals, but I will know that I did my best, it's all good for me. Giving up kills me from the inside, and the amount of regrets I get from it is immense. Could you tell me what you finally gave up on? Is there still a chance to start working on it again?
Huh. It seems I've been using this advice for years. Whenever I get sick of drawing and don't have any art-related work to do, I just stop drawing for a while (like 1-3 weeks). By the end of that time period, not only do I really want to draw, but I notice some improvement in my work. I've been using that technique for about 15 years now...
To both of you I would say: Why? What is the reason for the rage or frustration? Because only drawing every 1-3 weeks may be a good way to avoid it but will decrease your progress by a lot. One does not have to draw every day but on a regular basis to see progress and refine your craft. For me, stopping to tie my self-worth into what I create and doing it for publicity and gratification from others and instead create for the joy and sake of it helped there a lot. Doing it for the journey, not the result.
@@doppelkammertoaster I suspect there’s a misunderstanding. Typically, I draw just about every day for fun and for work. However, as with anything done that often, fatigue/desensitization/boredom/burnout can set in. It doesn’t matter how much you enjoy the activity or what it is, eventually, something done daily will lose its sparkle. By ceasing the activity for a while, the mind begins to crave it, and the longer the mind is deprived of that activity, the more that craving builds. So, when the activity is returned to, it doesn’t just sparkle - it shines. It’s like playing Third Strike with your best friend after not seeing them for a while. Time has gone by, and both of you are back to Yomi Level 0. It’s not anger or frustration, just the nature of the beast.
Learning that hedonic and reward circuitries are separate is actually fascinating and answers a long-held question of mine about why people do things that always frustrate them. Like, writing books is frustrating and a lot of authors complain about how grueling it is, but they still love it. Or, why do we do boring things like study? Well, now it makes sense.
Interesting to hear the psych words for this. I generally just say "Frustration can be satisfying sometimes and too much is a bad thing". Challenge is frustrating. Overcoming the challenge might be fun.
Funny enough, a bored mind makes wonders to your health I'm an artist. I work as one. Since years I've felt that my creativity flopped and wasn't going to come back. So I just made art as a job, and not as much as for me, unlike when I was younger and "so creative". I was also having anxiety problems and without medication. 2017 I installed OW and I played more than I drew. 2019 I started taking medications for anxiety, but still played OW. I was happier, but game is life lol. With the recent problems with blizzard, I uninstalled all my blizz games, and was faced only to play *boring singleplayers* and *my art*. By the same time, I noticed I was sleeping like shit, so I started leaving my cellphone aside one hour before sleeping. My creativity came BACK, my dudes. I'm a full blown artist once again, just like when I was 14. I am medicated and away from distractors. My mind wanders to create over and over again, and it's fun. And I feel so cool now for creating stuff, reading books, and being healthy over all.
This is how I feel about quitting League almost a year ago. The first time was hard (and covid was a thing as well making it even harder...) but now I feel better and increased the "variety" of my activities.
Wonders to your health? Maybe wonders to your high creativity/imagination as an artist. I am always bored and its terrible, one of the worst situations you can be in. You just sit and wish you would want to do something to not be bored, yet you do not actually want to do anything, and if you try to do something anyway you are just fooling yourself into activity because its fundamentally still boring.
Rougelike games are cool because losing means you have had to gain some insight to help you progress further next run. Winning and losing matters. Thinking and planning is fun and mastering rougelikes is usually fun. Its not like you lose and go back to last checkpoint; or get damaged and Wolverine regen heal behind cover.
Detoxing has never worked for me. I have quit videogames for months at a time on several occasions just b/c it wasn't enjoyable anymore and I replaced that time playing games with reading books watching documentaries and more sleep, and I normally only ever go back to the games b/c a friend wants to play, but I have never been able to get out of that space we're I am bored of the game. The most fun I have with games nowadays is when I am learning about a game and the moment I learn the "meta" of a game I am back to being bored.
Yea I feel this a lot of the times from singleplayer games to multiplayer and online games. People keep thinking a way of using meta tactics to progress everything faster. Everything has to progress so fast and smooth nowadays apparently. When you don't progress fast enough you don't feel adequate enough. I use guides only when I hit a wall. Sometimes I just wouldn't bother to look at it myself. Nowadays I resort to using niche tactics in games like monster hunter. Purposefully using stupid gears to do ultimately mundane stuff such as mining and gathering. Taking my time as I sightsee every once in a while. Or make a run that is supposedly fail by using no gear at all, BBQ spit as a taunt before getting fireballed always works. This makes progressing fun at least in my head as there are more shenanigans to be doscovered. But that's just me.
Yeah, I like games where I spend hours learning how it actually works (like Paradox games, CK3 and EU4 etc) but the minute I learned the basics I get really bored. They need more games where the whole point is learning mechanics of the game rather than just simply leveling up (some other games that come to mind are Path of Exile and maybe Elden Ring, but I haven't played it yet).
@@eatafox What i’d recommend is learning a bit about game design, if you have the time! Ever since i started learning Unity, coding, and art design in my free time, i’ve been enjoying so many more things about the same games i’ve always played, appreciating the work that the developers put in (or figuring out where they didn’t put in much work😅) Definitely elevated games for me
I find it kinda sad that a lot of gamers just stay on the surface in terms of game, playing mostly just things like csgo, overwatch, league.. There's so many great single playthrough experiences out there, indie games is where it's at, you play a game for what it is, enjoy it, reflect on it, and the move on or replay it every now and then! There's more than games that always come with a fail state and the ability to tilt you, some games are just designed to be enjoyable times without needing someone to lose in the end.
@@cloak5857 Yeah, for those people I'd say they gotta get out of the pond and into the sea, there's a lot of great games out there that won't tilt you off the face of the earth. Games don't have to be zero sum only
Law of Diminishing Returns - applies to economics but also applies to gaming (and anything else really). The more you game, the less return (i.e. enjoyment) you get out of it; even on a micro level, such as a single day. This last Sunday I played a single game for almost 12 hours (only stopping to eat and use the restroom) and I can remember being excited to play at the beginning of the day, finding enjoyment in everything I was doing. But by the end of the gaming session I was upset by the smallest inconvenience in the game and I wasn't having fun anymore.
Really interesting, thanks Dr K! As a doctor, I have less time to play nowadays. But when I do, I end up playing competitive multiplayer games like Overwatch where I don’t always win. The idea that rewards become habits is so key. Your dopamine detox tip is so useful - take some time out and you will start enjoying these things again!
Makes so much sense when looking back at the times I spent in, Inpatient drug treatment. I didnt have drugs, or tech for a couple months.. and I was just blown away at how I started to enjoy life again. Reading, writing, just sitting outside in the cool morning air.. Simple things became big enjoyments.. and when I went back home it all went away slowly, I didnt start drugs, but the gaming, and computer and filling all my time with something.. I need another long vacation away from it all.
This is literally what I have been confronting this whole weekend. I have a 3 day weekend and I decided it's finally time to play some RPG's but I keep coming back to the same addicting games, even though I know I'm really not addicted.
I feel you, I keep coming back to the same games, and it feels like it's not because I am addicted to those games, it's the other games don't seem appealing enough to put any time into so just go with what you know.
when i was a kid, i used to rage so hard. I think its healthy to get angry for losing but when it gets to the point where your damaging your stuff, maybe you should take a break from whatever game is driving you mad. im currently learning how to play soul calibur properly, getting juggled constantly sucks so bad.
being juggled in a fighting game is probably one of the most tilting things lol I wish you luck! Jumping straight to expert on the "learn not to tilt" path
i always used to get really mad in my teens less so now but still some. i don't think it had anything to do with the game at all. i think my body was just overflowing with testosterone and what i needed was a chance to wrestle or play fight or spar with other children.(it might also have been partly sugar, gluten and eating related as well. sugar spikes and what not) but male on male agression is seen as something bad, when it is probably the healthiest way males can grow up; and males will just bully and fight each other either way to find out how the power hierachy is between them if they can't play fight under the supervision of adults.
While it's normal to get angry when you lose, that anger shouldn't be directed into blame at yourself or others. It should just be a frustration over the time you spent not paying off yet. It's when you direct the energy from it to bad places that it becomes harmful.
Anger while playing is how im pretty chill outside of games. I hate every game similar to the OP of the video. Cant stand em. I play because shouting at random pixels/voices online and bashing my desk is better than laying in bed being depressed
Not sure if this will work for you but I stopped raging in those moments when I started playing in person with people and I realized how silly it is. If you imagine the opponent or someone else is watching you maybe it will make you cringe or whatever and u will stop raging lol.
Generally speaking, the times when I've played games and truly had fun have been playing couch co-op games with someone I like. This is why I think everything switching to online multiplayer is a bit sad. It was genuinely fun to play Goldeneye/Mario Kart etc back in the day because you had to go to someone's house to do it. The most I've enjoyed a game as an adult was playing Rayman Legends with my ex girlfriend. If I had played it solo or online I probably would have been bored. I think it's usually better to do something productive or a bit more fulfilling if you're on your own.
MMORPG's of the late 90's to mid 2000's were... pure crack. I wouldn't change a thing about how addicted i was either. But it's over, and it's been over a long time and it definitely left a void in its wake.
I used to be someone that would lose all track of time when playing something like Minecraft. Now I can't even load up the game without the entire thing feeling pointless. I find myself quitting most games at the main menu. I'd rather watch people play games.
This happens to me too. When I get more annoyed/less joy while playing a game I either play different game or drop it for a week (sometimes over a year). I call it ‘burn out’, to me games are suppose to feel fun (win or lose). Continuing to play games even when you feel shitty playing it is a problem.
I quit all competitive games over a year ago, and now when I do play an odd match of Apex with friends, I genuinely enjoy it no matter how poorly I play or the team performs. Compared to those who play it regularly, I absolutely get the most consistent satisfaction out of it.
This probably explains why when I sometimes host my home for an overnight lan party, it gets more frustrating as time goes on. While a 2hr multiplayer session that me and my friends just happened to be free that night, is so much more enjoyable.
That is what I like in playing with "game friends". Neither you expect them, nor they demanding you to be awake/present/online, you just play couple of games together when you both have time and mood for that. And even more of it playing with nice strangers. You finish the late-night game and then just thanks for the play and good company. I could say I enjoyed the conversation while playing much more than actual play process(and aiming for "win"), so I didn't mind at all about risky push at the enemies, and when my teammate died I just rushed to them at full speed (despite I'm being on theirs back and they haven't expected me) 1 vs 2, made some damage and died, as they obviously heard my sprint, and was not disappointed in it at all.
When I was 7 years old and I would play a game, after like an hour I would be like "oh I'm starting to get tired and it's been an hour anyway so I'll stop playing", but now it's like that feeling of "I'm getting tired" is being shut down by another voice "I don't want to stop playing because then I'll have to do work", so I continue playing. It's like I lost the ability to notice when I'm getting tired of doing something.
Sooooo Trueeeee, Reset the mind from games like going on a holiday for 4 weeks it feels amazing!!. Real talk! Your mind feels so light and you dont want to play games anymore!
The problem with doing a dopamine detox in this day and age of video games is that everything is so time limited. If you take and extended break from a video game it feels like you miss out on so much stuff and that’s one of the main reasons why I feel so trapped by video games, because I’m so scared of not playing for two weeks and missing out on that awesome new limited time cosmetic or something.
As he said, part of the reason it is so "good" is exactly because it is rare, because there's a challenge. For example, in the past people had to hunt for their food, nowadays you can just go in the supermarket and buy some meat, what is more fulfilling?
It's not that it is preferable to real life, it's that you fall into a pattern you don't enjoy. Anyone who is stuck in a pattern they don't enjoy would like to change that, the post in the video is a prime example of this, it's just that breaking free from a pattern is harder than you'd think at first glance, if it weren't it wouldn't be a pattern, right? Besides, games are a part of real life, but just like anything else, moderation is key.
@@Hanex94 yes, but my point was that mundane activities, aka "real life" stops being interesting for many people because they don't have to work hard. Illusion of choice doesn't have anything to do with my point tho, idk why you brought it up.
@@chillie000 When you make a mistake but fail to recover mentally which makes you do more mistakes which in turn makes you even angrier spiraling into a vicious cycle. It's a common occurrence in competitive activities.
When I was a kid I was addicted to video games for a few years but I noticed that once I stopped spending every free minute I could on it and chose to do different things as well in my free time I actually enjoyed it more. I was also able to let go of games that I only played out of peer pressure and addiction that weren't actually fun like Call of Duty.
I love this video because going through a dopamine detox really helped me and has improved my quality of life overall. I was so addicted to video games at one point that everything else in my life got pushed to the side. After multiple "Sessions" of detox and years of work I can say without a doubt that I "LOVE" video games again and I can enjoy them in moderation in a healthy way and recognize when it's time to do another detox. This is a great subject to touch on that is near and dear to myself. Thank you!
A thing that worked for me was to replay the games that I used to love as a kid to remind myself why I fell in love with video games in the first place because **old man's voice** back in my day games used to be made with heart and soul. They were treated as an art form, whether they were from big companies or small companies. Now they're just treated as products that need to be consumed and milked for every last cent with little to no more creativity and talent put into them, they have become too mainstrean and too corporatized.
"this is why everyone takes their cellphone to their bathroom. Best way to prepare is to not take your phone to your bathroom" meanwhile I just took my phone with me while watching that exact point...
God, doing a dopamine detox for 2 weeks sounds really scary. My main method of communication with one of my friend groups is through Discord, and the other group routinely schedules meetups over Messager. It's basically asking me to have no friends for 2 weeks. I did that for basically all of my teens, I ain't going back there!
This is so on point. Its like when I realize I can beat the game, farm everything I need, just if I put in the time, I don't want to play it anymore. When I get stuck in a game, that's the only time I actually have fun, trying to figure it out and get better at it. Great Analysis!
I've been playing games since the start of the 90s for context. I still spend a lot of time gaming today. The word that irks me so much that I hear a lot nowadays, is "grind". it brings up such negative feelings in me about how people see playing games today. It's a game, should be about enjoying yourself.
The day I came to the conclusion that I couldn't tell if I was enjoying games or if I was addicted was the day I stopped gaming as a hobby. That day I grew up.
Really thanks for the video! I marked this out as well. Everything from what I take a big brake, like as you said for 2 weeks is extremely good. Not only it feels great to come back, but also you feel like you are totally renew, and everything is so easy, and you are so great!
The addicting part of playing games is mainly the competitive multiplayer aspect. People feel the need to compete with other people and prove something to them, or themselves. If you have a problem with being addicted to any sort of online game, stop playing it and switch to single player ones. The difference will be huge, in most cases. I played MOBA games (starting from the first Dota, ending on HotS) for like 10 years on/off, but then i've decided to just not play them anymore. I was addicted to the competitiveness. I now play single player, or multiplayer that include co-op only, and it gives me more fun for sure. So many great games that makes you actually relax, and not pissed off.
I love competitive games but I always strive to have at least one single player game which I can play when I get frustrated as soon as I complete that one I try to immediately download another.
This is very interesting because these days I keep seeing people who say they no longer enjoy playing Genshin Impact because it feels like a “chore”. And tbh it really surprised me bc Im almost a year into the game and every day I play even if it’s just for 10 minutes and it’s still so much fun. This is usually at the end of the day and after studying and stressing the whole day I can’t help but feel happy logging on and grind away with my little characters while chatting with my friends. But from what this video says I now understand why some people feel this way now. Amazing channel
this video is super fitting for what recently happened to me. last year i was super addicted to apex. it was the first battle royale that i found myself having a lot of fun playing. i played with a friend consistently for about a year and it was around this time that the game just stopped being fun. i was taking it too seriously and even though i wasn’t having fun anymore i couldn’t bring myself to stop playing it. i used to play a lot of single player games and i stopped playing those because they didn’t even feel appealing to me anymore. about 2 months ago i took a break from video games because i was preparing for college and i was busy with work. this break did wonders for me. when i finally did start playing again i was actually having fun and i don’t feel addicted like before. i find that i don’t want to play for hours and hours like i used to. i’ve also gotten back into single player games and i feel like i’m back in middle school with how much i’ve been enjoying the games. it’s cool to know the medical/scientific reasons for why i was feeling the way i was and why the break i took helped so much
I’m currently in pursuit of a Legend Ironman run in XCOM WotC and it’s had me asking a lot of questions related to this. I DO love the design of the game and think it’s one of my favorites ever but I’m not sure I’m really enjoying this challenge. I’m utterly addicted and feel compelled to play until I win but it’s just consuming hours and hours of my life. 30hrs down the drain because of one scuffed mission out of 25+. Every mission requires rolling the dice on my soldier’s lives dozens and dozens of times which clearly triggers the gambling addiction. So idk. I get mind-numbingly angry at the game and curse it more than I praise it but I keep trying. Masochism for sure…
Usually if I find myself frustrated with a challenge (usually self imposed), I take a sit back and ask myself "is this worth my time and frustration." From there I basically give myself two options. Is it possible to lower the difficulty to a more reasonable yet still challenging level, or just stop playing the game altogether for the moment. I have far too big a back log to get stuck on a frustrating pokemon rom or a hardcore run of a game, no matter how fun I thought the challenge or rewarding it would be at the start.
Long-term strategy games are by design easy to sink a bunch of hours into and feel like you don’t get enough out of them. When I get to the point in a play session when I start making decisions with little thought that’s when I usually stop.
I try to change the way I think of playing a game. I see it as a way to practice skills or techniques. For example, I look up tricks for hoe to win at a game with TH-cam videos. Then, I try to practice those tricks in that game. The result is that I find the video game much more boring (as one or a few problems seems solved) so that I have much more control over it in terms of when and how long a session I have, where before I would play for much longer periods and then regret it. So, for me, seeing a video game as a way to apply the solutions others have found from it changes the nature of the game and even in a sense the game itself that I am actually playing, where what we call the game becomes more so the context, a sandbox. Edit: Another example is when I played Minecraft multiplayer, at one point I saw the game as a communication game, where I could work on my communication skills.
You must be my new favourite cahnnel. Instantly subscribed. I used to play games a lot when i was at high school and at university and currently play some, but I got interested in psychology, nutrition, and fitness down the road. Nowadays I can see a clear parallel between food addiction and gaming addiction. It's super interesting ;)
Awesome tip, however if someone were to detox from games to reset their receptors, how long would it take to get bored with games(or anything really) again? Would be very interesting to hear dr. K expand on the topic
Thanks so much for explaining this. I've been extremely frustrated at the time I've been spending in League despite it proving absolutely 0 enjoyment. You've given me a ton to think about and I really appreciate that!
I think run-based games are also more fun because there's lots of variation, not much commitment, and it's much harder to get to a stopping point, as you can just play 'one more game'
Thanks for the video. Dr.K do you know why multiplayer games are so much more addicting than singeplayer games? I used to enjoy singple player games alot but I have been so addicted to multiplayer games lately
Quick caveat / opinion from a game designer: While only periodically winning might make something more addictive, it doesn't have to mean that its not fun. Winning isn't what makes something fun, its the journey. By losing a bunch and having to work for the win, the process of winning is actually deeply fulfilling and enjoyable for many. Its not an exact science but its okay to lose in games, doesnt mean the developer is maliciously manipulating players into playing over and over I'm not implying that people don't get addicted to games, just that games arent always built to prey on players. There's just a lot of grey area between one person's fun and another person's addiction
While I agree, successful games aren't successful because they're boring. Some developers do add stuff to keep you playing, like GTA Online and the famous shark card (and as a bonus they make a ton of money).
In South Africa we currently have constant blackouts that can last up to 12 hours a day. I struggled to enjoy games for a while but now that I'm forced to be bored for these long periods of time, I honestly feel like a little child when the power does come on and I can actually play some games.
I literally have been playing AOE 2 for 20 + year now and quite frankly I have never gotten sick of, I truly enjoy it. I think its because I relish the game play, not whether I win or lose. The game player in multi player always changes.
Hi, I have a question about one thing, if fun does decrease when we make habit of something, in this case, games, why frustration doesn't go away, like fun does, and people become toxic, even tho they partly make habit of it too?
Fun and frustration dont coexist, when you start a game you can feel fun, but when it becomes a habit, fun gives way to frustration, and that's when people start being "toxic".
I am not sure, but I will give you the best idea my mind thought of: Anger and frustration are part of a cycle of dissatisfaction and powerlessness. There was a time they enjoyed the game more, and so when the game becomes less enjoyable, they don't understand why and begin blaming others for the fact they're losing or having less fun. They have a harder time in life as they now have an addiction, and this cycle continues to worsen until the activity becomes so unfun and horrible that they break the pattern by getting help or trying to quit on their own.
Video Games are always fun. That said, there are things you can experience that are more fun, but you aren't entitled to those experiences. Some things in life just aren't within someone's reach while others are.
I absolutely hear what you're saying and I don't dispute the veracity of your statements, but, for some of us (me) the denial of reward is what makes me quit games. If a game is very challenging, beyond my capabilities, I won't play. I don't mind some challenge, but if a game takes what I judge to be too much effort, I won't play. I've played games for about 20 years and I'm an older gamer. Some would call me a casual gamer, but that misses the point; I play games as a pastime, not for a lot of challenge. Fun is a separate issue. It's hard to find a game that's fun, these days. Most games seem to focus on challenge and complexity instead of fun. And, most of the casual games are uninteresting. For these reasons, MMOs, like ESO, are a good fit for me. Interesting content, thanks for the video.
@@thedoomslayer5863 EG is an dota 2 esports from the NA region, RTZ is one of the players. TI is short for the The International. It’s a major esports tournament held once a year.
The more you do something, the less pleasure you get over time. That is something that I really want to keep at the back of my mind. Investing so much time into video games just makes you feel miserable at times eventually. Honestly having another "time killer" not related to games or even just exposing yourself to boredom on a regular basis does go a long way into keeping a healthier relationship between you and video games.
Agreed. I used to play a lot of moba's (DOTA 2) in my college years. But i never realized that i did this unconsciously when i bored playing games, i just simply stop playing them for weeks even months and then get right back into it. Thank god now im stopping from multiplayer online games and more toward single player games, which you can play and take a break anytime.
How can you tell when a game is addicting or just time consuming? For example if you're playing to reach a high level in an MMO, say you play 3 hrs a day until you reach the high level, is that an addiction? Or is it more of an addiction if you're playing 3 hrs a day at high level and not accomplishing anything (in the context of the game)?
Probably in how much enjoyment you can find in doing other things, when the addiction sets in other things start losing appeal and the thing you're addicted to becomes the only thing your brain allows you to do without pushback. Both are something to look out for though as you're less likely to notice the transition if you're already not having fun, but also if you find yourself spending tons of hours doing something you don't enjoy ask yourself: "How fantastic does the endgame has to be to be worth spending, say, 60 hours to (maybe) be enjoyable?". I find that tunnel visioning towards the endgame in an mmorpg is doing yourself a disservice. A very large portion of the content lies within the leveling and if you take the time to enjoy it you'll have a better time overall. "Endgame is all that matters (because those are the only rewards that stick around)" is a pretty common sentiment, but if you aren't having fun then what are those rewards really worth?
I think there's something to be said about lightheartedness. Like when you are just messing around as opposed to being serious. It's usually with your friends. I just noticed those are the few times I dont get frustrated about dying in games and its really more of a funny thing than anything else.
I find that what you need to look out for is when you play games(or watch porn) not because you want to, but because it's what you do. It's almost an obligation. I did that with LoL back in 2012, I wasn't playing League because I had fun, or because I wanted to. I played league because that's what I do in my free time. So quitting League actually improved my mood by a lot! A LOT!
This video was enlightening, I'm a mature 30+ yr old gamer woman (I play since I was 8) and I'm addicted to playing overwatch even tho half the time I'm raging, and I cant seem to stop. i install other games but they either bore me, or I get hooked until I finished them (ONLY if its a AAA like Ghost of Tsushima) . But in the end I ALWAYS go back to overwatch. I do have "fun" tho.
I stoped enjoying story games when I was 14 And year ago I stop playing competitive games too. Now I play mobile time sinks while watch TH-cam videos I don’t enjoy them but I still play them. Idk why I feel like I need to play without enjoying them
In your situation I'd suggest that you write down your thoughts at the end of the day. Just 5 to 10 minutes of writing things down. What you did throughout the day, how you felt, what you ate. That will give your brain and mind room to breathe a bit, which may be part of the problem. Video games distract from things, so if your brain simply needs to relax and think for itself a bit, you should probably let it do so, and just writing down some thoughts in a journal can be a good way to do that. Good luck :)
I've had the unfortunate experience of trying to live broadcast variety gameplay, while also grinding a lot in FXIV on my off-time. And yeah, it became this routine I just get sucked into, becoming more and more exhausted, ignoring my health, until I literally broke down and stopped doing both because nothing made me happy anymore. Now I've been sticking to time-limited activities. No more grinding, and way less streaming, but more skill building/self care.
Playing games in general just feels like effort and a chore to do. Doesn't matter what genre it is or how good the games are, I can't play for more than 1-2 hours before wanting to go outside or chat to friends or watch something.
I just get baffled by the whole issue of taking your phone to the bathroom. I´ve never had trouble just taking the crap and getting it over with, even though I use a lot of technology.🤣
Yeah, the looking-down-on-the-phone pandemic is ridiculous. I can relate, but certainly not while I want to take a dump in peace lmao. That time of the day is holy and must never be tainted by addiction!
basically my idea of when i like a game is when a game is hard but not too hard, so you can win but not too often, so you get a feeling of accomplishment when you finally win
Having some other hobby to do really helps As someone who draw, when i finally get burned out drawing, i find video games very exciting and when i bored of video games i find drawing exciting Its a good loop
I agree. I have similar loops. Games, drawing, reading, building lego's, watching/listening podcasts or netflix. My problem however is bingeing whatever i'm into at the moment.I have tendency to obsess or go into a deep flow for hours.
1. There's a healthy way to keep video games in your life without them having negative impacts 2. "just do this" is never good advice lol it helps no one, it just makes people feel stupid
@@_WeDontKnow_ Bru, if you don't enjoy it, then don't do it, lmao, look away from the screen. I have the opposite problem - I like playing them too much. When I get bored with one, I'm already salivating about ten more in my mental backlog.
So basically you can enjoy stuff once again by practicing a dopamine detox. but what will happen after you successfully achieve this? after some time will our brain take us back to the same place we where at the beginning?
I play video games all the time and I have learned that when I get used to certain rewards they are not rewarding anymore but when I change the game it will be rewarding again
Dr. K really using the gamer audio quality for authenticity's sake 😁
What is up with it? I haven't watched the streams lately
@@anthonypatterson264 usually audio sounds much better)
@@anthonypatterson264 He's in EU not at home
@@Terra101 oh I didn't know. Thanks lol. Any idea when he's going home? Kinda struggling with the audio quality
@@anthonypatterson264 Yeah same, this type of audio quality actually triggers the hell out of my tinnitus, makes my ears ring really loud when I listen to it.
I have no idea of when he's heading home.
This is why I quit league. All of my friends don’t actually enjoy the game, they are just addicted. I only ever hear people say negative things while playing it and it has a negative impact on people’s mentality.
90% of overwatch’s community is the same (addicted and the game leaves a negative impact on their mood)
@@marchin2227 Yup, I'm one of them and it's pretty much always alt-f4 ending for me... And I don't play anything else ✌️🥴
@@movement2contact you and me both buddy, Imma be doing the dopamine detox and you should too, take care ey!
@@marchin2227 Cause lets face it overwatch kind of fucking sucks lol
@@BlotterWizard Yeah no I totally agree man.
That's why I stopped playing competitive multiplayer games when I got older, I'd rather play something single player with a nice story or have fun on co-op with friends
99% of games have such terrible stories though :(
@@maynardewm Buy the 1%, easy
@@maynardewm you should rethink on what you consider a good story
Same dude I dont need negative energy in my life lol
Multiplayer games are unfun anyway unless they’re fighting games.
“The soul always knows what to do to heal itself. The challenge is to silence the mind.”
“The one part of a brain always knows what to do to fix itself. The challenge is to silence the other part of a brain.”
Fixed it for you.
@@yaro_sem eh, the "soul" and the "mind' are great abstractions - we all have an intuitive concept of what they are despite not being able to articulate what they mean.
@@yaro_sem check your superiority complex lmaoo
@@_WeDontKnow_ "check your superiority complex lmaoo"
You just laughed at some dude because he has a superiority complex. I will add you too to our list of "superior people."
@@freddy4603 If we were to use abstractions, then better to use psychology terms, not outdated superstition.
I was addicted to league until I realized playing with toxic aholes all day was turning me into a toxic ahole and I wasn't actually enjoying myself. Quit cold Turkey after that realization
I quited too late (in smite[moba game too]) inalready lost my friends playing that tyoe of game.
Was also addicted to league a few years ago. Grinding ranked games day and night. But then I realized that shit is just toxic for me and my mental health. I still play league from time to time with the boys, but just for fun. League still is my most loved game although I hate it.
I played that for a bit and yeah... a community like that is NOT worth spending time in, you will either learn to deal with them, or you will actually turn into them. 99% of the time i would say it's the latter. I quit a lot of games for this same reason. If the community is bitter it's absolutely pointless to play a video game, which at the end of the day was designed to ENTERTAIN us. Not add to our frustration we have all day at work, or around the house.
This is largely why i quit PvP in general, only ever got into the Garden Warfare series after Socom died. PvP usually = extreme high's and lows.
@@daveevans9684 Yeah you guys went through what i did a decade before you with Socom in 2002-2004. Sweating my ranking all night, ONE bad game, get killed by a low rank = massive deranking and anger. People yelling over the headset at one another in lobbies at 3am... it was fun in it's time, but i can't be doing that bs in my 40's lol. I gave up on it around 28 or 29. PvP i mean in general. It's all the same really, just varying levels of toxicity.
I was stuck playing games for about 5hrs a day. Then I got frustrated enough about my lack of progress that I stopped playing for about two weeks, and then resumed it again and now play for about 1.5hrs a day, been enjoying it more than ever. To clarify though, I did it because I read Dr.K's advice on vata minds and how our interest is so volatile. I think it also helps to not play the same game over and over, manage your interest (if you are vata) and know when to switch to a different game to keep them fresh and interesting.
What is the video called where dr. K gives advice on vata minds?
Where can I find that advice? Also yeah my interests seem to flip flop, it's weird.
I think we all have some level of vata because we live in a vata world currently.
Do you maybe remember the title of that video?
Frustrated in your progress irl or in game?
I spent quite a lot of time analysing this problem. I've come up with four main reasons why people stop having fun with video games:
-we're unhappy with our own life, it means that we think about playing only as a waste of time, as we could be doing something useful at the moment, it might happen every time we sit in front of our PC or console
-we take too seriously the social construct, others tell us that we shouldn't enjoy playing video games when we're old, so we feel bad doing it
-we play the games for other reasons than having fun, for example, I used to play League of Legends for the sole reason of wanting the time to fly faster, I wanted my problems to solve themselvesby letting the time go faster (it didn't work)
-addiction of dopamine shots, we need to play games to feel like something happens in our life, but it takes away the happiness from everything else around us, this loop makes us go back to playing games without any need for dopamine, just for the sake of the addiction, so we play even when we don't need those shots
Feel free to add more, I'll gladly learn something new, best regards!
That's pretty accurate, I'd say. Although I'm not a big gamer, there was a period of my life where I played Rocket League non stop just for the thrill (about 1100 hours or so). The gameplay is so fast and addictive because of it. But now the thrill is gone and I just can't play not only RL, but any other video game as well. It's that feeling like I have so much more interesting stuff to do that now is not the time to play games. Maybe I grew out of video games, maybe I just got sick of them. The most plausible explanation to me is that my mind needs to rest from video games. Perhaps only then I can go back and beat some that I wanted for a long time.
I’ve also contemplated this, my thoughts were very similar - but I would add this; bereft of typically useful skills or passions, video games with a ranked/difficult challenge model create a sense of pride and accomplishment not found elsewhere in one’s life. It can be the only thing that provides a feeling of confidence. Though just with any singular source of confidence, it’s a glass house.. fragile and teetering on the brink of destruction. It may end up being that one is insecure by their very own opulence.
@@turolretar Yeah you shouldn't ever force yourself to play a game for the sake of playing it. That's a very good way of getting burnout. Of course, you shouldn't let that stop you from picking up a game and play it, after all, how else are you gonna find that next Rocket League? But you should notice when a game's not getting your attention and put it down before you get sick of it. Maybe you've really out grown video games, or maybe you're an on off kind of guy, like me, who get's invested in a game for a few day, some maybe for longer, before putting it down for later and moving on to something else.
Anyway's, wish you luck in overcoming that predicament you're in. Hope it all works out in the end.
For me, it's definitely an escape from the hopelessness of my real life. I'm actually making progress and accomplishing goals in games. And it's not like I haven't tried doing stuff IRL, but after running into brick walls over and over I just finally give up.
@@SuperLotus It was the same in my case. I escaped to League of Legends when I gave up one of my dreams. Now I understand my mind, and what I have to do to be happy. I'm a dreamer, and I need to try to achieve the highest possible goals. It's not about achieving them. Trying is the key word here. If I don't achieve my goals, but I will know that I did my best, it's all good for me. Giving up kills me from the inside, and the amount of regrets I get from it is immense.
Could you tell me what you finally gave up on? Is there still a chance to start working on it again?
Huh. It seems I've been using this advice for years. Whenever I get sick of drawing and don't have any art-related work to do, I just stop drawing for a while (like 1-3 weeks). By the end of that time period, not only do I really want to draw, but I notice some improvement in my work. I've been using that technique for about 15 years now...
@Nehesa Setiawan Yeah. Sometimes, we just need time to internalize and sit with the things we've learned from repetition.
To both of you I would say: Why? What is the reason for the rage or frustration? Because only drawing every 1-3 weeks may be a good way to avoid it but will decrease your progress by a lot. One does not have to draw every day but on a regular basis to see progress and refine your craft.
For me, stopping to tie my self-worth into what I create and doing it for publicity and gratification from others and instead create for the joy and sake of it helped there a lot. Doing it for the journey, not the result.
@@doppelkammertoaster I suspect there’s a misunderstanding. Typically, I draw just about every day for fun and for work. However, as with anything done that often, fatigue/desensitization/boredom/burnout can set in. It doesn’t matter how much you enjoy the activity or what it is, eventually, something done daily will lose its sparkle. By ceasing the activity for a while, the mind begins to crave it, and the longer the mind is deprived of that activity, the more that craving builds. So, when the activity is returned to, it doesn’t just sparkle - it shines. It’s like playing Third Strike with your best friend after not seeing them for a while. Time has gone by, and both of you are back to Yomi Level 0.
It’s not anger or frustration, just the nature of the beast.
Same I am a musician
@@DashXero I'll be honest, I've never felt that way about art. I am happy to keep making art every day till the day I die lol
Learning that hedonic and reward circuitries are separate is actually fascinating and answers a long-held question of mine about why people do things that always frustrate them. Like, writing books is frustrating and a lot of authors complain about how grueling it is, but they still love it. Or, why do we do boring things like study? Well, now it makes sense.
Interesting to hear the psych words for this. I generally just say "Frustration can be satisfying sometimes and too much is a bad thing". Challenge is frustrating. Overcoming the challenge might be fun.
Funny enough, a bored mind makes wonders to your health
I'm an artist. I work as one. Since years I've felt that my creativity flopped and wasn't going to come back. So I just made art as a job, and not as much as for me, unlike when I was younger and "so creative". I was also having anxiety problems and without medication. 2017 I installed OW and I played more than I drew. 2019 I started taking medications for anxiety, but still played OW. I was happier, but game is life lol.
With the recent problems with blizzard, I uninstalled all my blizz games, and was faced only to play *boring singleplayers* and *my art*. By the same time, I noticed I was sleeping like shit, so I started leaving my cellphone aside one hour before sleeping. My creativity came BACK, my dudes. I'm a full blown artist once again, just like when I was 14. I am medicated and away from distractors. My mind wanders to create over and over again, and it's fun. And I feel so cool now for creating stuff, reading books, and being healthy over all.
that is awesome! congrats 😊😊
Damn dude, that's inspiring me to try the same thing, thank you for sharing and congrats on rediscovering your creativity!
This is how I feel about quitting League almost a year ago. The first time was hard (and covid was a thing as well making it even harder...) but now I feel better and increased the "variety" of my activities.
“Boring” single player games???
Wonders to your health? Maybe wonders to your high creativity/imagination as an artist. I am always bored and its terrible, one of the worst situations you can be in. You just sit and wish you would want to do something to not be bored, yet you do not actually want to do anything, and if you try to do something anyway you are just fooling yourself into activity because its fundamentally still boring.
Rougelike games are cool because losing means you have had to gain some insight to help you progress further next run. Winning and losing matters. Thinking and planning is fun and mastering rougelikes is usually fun. Its not like you lose and go back to last checkpoint; or get damaged and Wolverine regen heal behind cover.
roguelike gannnng
Roguelikers
Yeah ive been playing games like ftl and noita
Yeah if I find a game too hard I just never pick it up again lol
This makes me want to try a rougelike.
Detoxing has never worked for me. I have quit videogames for months at a time on several occasions just b/c it wasn't enjoyable anymore and I replaced that time playing games with reading books watching documentaries and more sleep, and I normally only ever go back to the games b/c a friend wants to play, but I have never been able to get out of that space we're I am bored of the game. The most fun I have with games nowadays is when I am learning about a game and the moment I learn the "meta" of a game I am back to being bored.
Yea I feel this a lot of the times from singleplayer games to multiplayer and online games. People keep thinking a way of using meta tactics to progress everything faster. Everything has to progress so fast and smooth nowadays apparently. When you don't progress fast enough you don't feel adequate enough. I use guides only when I hit a wall. Sometimes I just wouldn't bother to look at it myself. Nowadays I resort to using niche tactics in games like monster hunter. Purposefully using stupid gears to do ultimately mundane stuff such as mining and gathering. Taking my time as I sightsee every once in a while. Or make a run that is supposedly fail by using no gear at all, BBQ spit as a taunt before getting fireballed always works. This makes progressing fun at least in my head as there are more shenanigans to be doscovered. But that's just me.
Yeah, I like games where I spend hours learning how it actually works (like Paradox games, CK3 and EU4 etc) but the minute I learned the basics I get really bored. They need more games where the whole point is learning mechanics of the game rather than just simply leveling up (some other games that come to mind are Path of Exile and maybe Elden Ring, but I haven't played it yet).
@@eatafox What i’d recommend is learning a bit about game design, if you have the time! Ever since i started learning Unity, coding, and art design in my free time, i’ve been enjoying so many more things about the same games i’ve always played, appreciating the work that the developers put in (or figuring out where they didn’t put in much work😅) Definitely elevated games for me
@@isaacashton5772 I am in collage for Coding(at least I was until I dropped out, but I plan on going back)
I find it kinda sad that a lot of gamers just stay on the surface in terms of game, playing mostly just things like csgo, overwatch, league.. There's so many great single playthrough experiences out there, indie games is where it's at, you play a game for what it is, enjoy it, reflect on it, and the move on or replay it every now and then! There's more than games that always come with a fail state and the ability to tilt you, some games are just designed to be enjoyable times without needing someone to lose in the end.
Reminds me of the people who play an MMO (and ONLY that MMO) for a decade but all they do is complain about how bad it is.
@@cloak5857 Yeah, for those people I'd say they gotta get out of the pond and into the sea, there's a lot of great games out there that won't tilt you off the face of the earth. Games don't have to be zero sum only
Best single player game ever: Outer Wilds. Thank me later
Is these CSGO, league also has the same effect as playing fighting games?
@@carltasticdrew9633 I think so, fighting games are very competitive, also battle royales, it's all or nothing, defeat or victory
Law of Diminishing Returns - applies to economics but also applies to gaming (and anything else really). The more you game, the less return (i.e. enjoyment) you get out of it; even on a micro level, such as a single day. This last Sunday I played a single game for almost 12 hours (only stopping to eat and use the restroom) and I can remember being excited to play at the beginning of the day, finding enjoyment in everything I was doing. But by the end of the gaming session I was upset by the smallest inconvenience in the game and I wasn't having fun anymore.
What is your solution for that ? For myself i tried to discover new games, and not focus on one single game until my soul burst of excess.
Really interesting, thanks Dr K! As a doctor, I have less time to play nowadays. But when I do, I end up playing competitive multiplayer games like Overwatch where I don’t always win. The idea that rewards become habits is so key. Your dopamine detox tip is so useful - take some time out and you will start enjoying these things again!
The ironic thing is that if you play a single player game you will get so much more reward and most likely a memorable experience.
@Doctor Asmain Hey fellow Overwatch player! I love the teamwork aspect and how much there is to learn about the game. Who do you main?
Makes so much sense when looking back at the times I spent in, Inpatient drug treatment. I didnt have drugs, or tech for a couple months.. and I was just blown away at how I started to enjoy life again. Reading, writing, just sitting outside in the cool morning air.. Simple things became big enjoyments.. and when I went back home it all went away slowly, I didnt start drugs, but the gaming, and computer and filling all my time with something.. I need another long vacation away from it all.
This is literally what I have been confronting this whole weekend. I have a 3 day weekend and I decided it's finally time to play some RPG's but I keep coming back to the same addicting games, even though I know I'm really not addicted.
sounds like you kind of are.
so what's wrong about it? play them if you like them B) there's something wrong only if you feel bad after playing
Doesn't it make you addicted if you keep coming back to it despite not wanting to play it?
I feel you, I keep coming back to the same games, and it feels like it's not because I am addicted to those games, it's the other games don't seem appealing enough to put any time into so just go with what you know.
when i was a kid, i used to rage so hard. I think its healthy to get angry for losing but when it gets to the point where your damaging your stuff, maybe you should take a break from whatever game is driving you mad. im currently learning how to play soul calibur properly, getting juggled constantly sucks so bad.
being juggled in a fighting game is probably one of the most tilting things lol I wish you luck! Jumping straight to expert on the "learn not to tilt" path
i always used to get really mad in my teens less so now but still some. i don't think it had anything to do with the game at all. i think my body was just overflowing with testosterone and what i needed was a chance to wrestle or play fight or spar with other children.(it might also have been partly sugar, gluten and eating related as well. sugar spikes and what not) but male on male agression is seen as something bad, when it is probably the healthiest way males can grow up; and males will just bully and fight each other either way to find out how the power hierachy is between them if they can't play fight under the supervision of adults.
While it's normal to get angry when you lose, that anger shouldn't be directed into blame at yourself or others. It should just be a frustration over the time you spent not paying off yet. It's when you direct the energy from it to bad places that it becomes harmful.
Anger while playing is how im pretty chill outside of games. I hate every game similar to the OP of the video. Cant stand em. I play because shouting at random pixels/voices online and bashing my desk is better than laying in bed being depressed
Not sure if this will work for you but I stopped raging in those moments when I started playing in person with people and I realized how silly it is. If you imagine the opponent or someone else is watching you maybe it will make you cringe or whatever and u will stop raging lol.
Generally speaking, the times when I've played games and truly had fun have been playing couch co-op games with someone I like. This is why I think everything switching to online multiplayer is a bit sad. It was genuinely fun to play Goldeneye/Mario Kart etc back in the day because you had to go to someone's house to do it. The most I've enjoyed a game as an adult was playing Rayman Legends with my ex girlfriend. If I had played it solo or online I probably would have been bored. I think it's usually better to do something productive or a bit more fulfilling if you're on your own.
MMORPG's of the late 90's to mid 2000's were... pure crack. I wouldn't change a thing about how addicted i was either. But it's over, and it's been over a long time and it definitely left a void in its wake.
"The reason why games are so addicing is because you don't always win"
Laughs in RimWorld where you never win... I love this game.
thats funny i was just playing it while watching this video
Omg he's getting rimmed
U can win….. eventually but to distracted along the way it ends up not a priority
@@elijahgates5856 I play this game for years and managed to win only once... With one colonist alive so i don't consider this a win.
or games like space engineers which im a big fan of.
I used to be someone that would lose all track of time when playing something like Minecraft.
Now I can't even load up the game without the entire thing feeling pointless. I find myself quitting most games at the main menu.
I'd rather watch people play games.
man i don't even watch people play games unless they're funny, games have just become so pointless nowadays
This happens to me too. When I get more annoyed/less joy while playing a game I either play different game or drop it for a week (sometimes over a year). I call it ‘burn out’, to me games are suppose to feel fun (win or lose). Continuing to play games even when you feel shitty playing it is a problem.
Agreed
I quit all competitive games over a year ago, and now when I do play an odd match of Apex with friends, I genuinely enjoy it no matter how poorly I play or the team performs. Compared to those who play it regularly, I absolutely get the most consistent satisfaction out of it.
i guess that's one way to actually get back to reading my pile of books (graphic novels, really) i've set aside years ago...
This probably explains why when I sometimes host my home for an overnight lan party, it gets more frustrating as time goes on. While a 2hr multiplayer session that me and my friends just happened to be free that night, is so much more enjoyable.
That is what I like in playing with "game friends". Neither you expect them, nor they demanding you to be awake/present/online, you just play couple of games together when you both have time and mood for that. And even more of it playing with nice strangers. You finish the late-night game and then just thanks for the play and good company. I could say I enjoyed the conversation while playing much more than actual play process(and aiming for "win"), so I didn't mind at all about risky push at the enemies, and when my teammate died I just rushed to them at full speed (despite I'm being on theirs back and they haven't expected me) 1 vs 2, made some damage and died, as they obviously heard my sprint, and was not disappointed in it at all.
Hate when I get unlucky in the bathroom😔
My wife hates when I get unlucky in the bathroom.
When I was 7 years old and I would play a game, after like an hour I would be like "oh I'm starting to get tired and it's been an hour anyway so I'll stop playing", but now it's like that feeling of "I'm getting tired" is being shut down by another voice "I don't want to stop playing because then I'll have to do work", so I continue playing. It's like I lost the ability to notice when I'm getting tired of doing something.
Sooooo Trueeeee, Reset the mind from games like going on a holiday for 4 weeks it feels amazing!!. Real talk! Your mind feels so light and you dont want to play games anymore!
The problem with doing a dopamine detox in this day and age of video games is that everything is so time limited.
If you take and extended break from a video game it feels like you miss out on so much stuff and that’s one of the main reasons why I feel so trapped by video games, because I’m so scared of not playing for two weeks and missing out on that awesome new limited time cosmetic or something.
Especially with every game having events at all times, especially gacha games.
The fact tilting and being angry at a game is preferable to real life is scary.
As he said, part of the reason it is so "good" is exactly because it is rare, because there's a challenge. For example, in the past people had to hunt for their food, nowadays you can just go in the supermarket and buy some meat, what is more fulfilling?
It's not that it is preferable to real life, it's that you fall into a pattern you don't enjoy. Anyone who is stuck in a pattern they don't enjoy would like to change that, the post in the video is a prime example of this, it's just that breaking free from a pattern is harder than you'd think at first glance, if it weren't it wouldn't be a pattern, right?
Besides, games are a part of real life, but just like anything else, moderation is key.
@@l0kk016 if you worked hard for any of them then the answer is any of them, the rest is just illusion of choice
@@Hanex94 yes, but my point was that mundane activities, aka "real life" stops being interesting for many people because they don't have to work hard.
Illusion of choice doesn't have anything to do with my point tho, idk why you brought it up.
@@chillie000 When you make a mistake but fail to recover mentally which makes you do more mistakes which in turn makes you even angrier spiraling into a vicious cycle. It's a common occurrence in competitive activities.
When I was a kid I was addicted to video games for a few years but I noticed that once I stopped spending every free minute I could on it and chose to do different things as well in my free time I actually enjoyed it more.
I was also able to let go of games that I only played out of peer pressure and addiction that weren't actually fun like Call of Duty.
I love this video because going through a dopamine detox really helped me and has improved my quality of life overall. I was so addicted to video games at one point that everything else in my life got pushed to the side. After multiple "Sessions" of detox and years of work I can say without a doubt that I "LOVE" video games again and I can enjoy them in moderation in a healthy way and recognize when it's time to do another detox. This is a great subject to touch on that is near and dear to myself. Thank you!
Nice man. How long were your detox blocks?
A thing that worked for me was to replay the games that I used to love as a kid to remind myself why I fell in love with video games in the first place because **old man's voice** back in my day games used to be made with heart and soul. They were treated as an art form, whether they were from big companies or small companies. Now they're just treated as products that need to be consumed and milked for every last cent with little to no more creativity and talent put into them, they have become too mainstrean and too corporatized.
"this is why everyone takes their cellphone to their bathroom. Best way to prepare is to not take your phone to your bathroom" meanwhile I just took my phone with me while watching that exact point...
God, doing a dopamine detox for 2 weeks sounds really scary. My main method of communication with one of my friend groups is through Discord, and the other group routinely schedules meetups over Messager.
It's basically asking me to have no friends for 2 weeks. I did that for basically all of my teens, I ain't going back there!
The word "detox" is usually a red flag👀
This is the same issue potheads suffer from, many of which are gamers. No buds or games for a week! Go clean your room Mr!
This is so on point. Its like when I realize I can beat the game, farm everything I need, just if I put in the time, I don't want to play it anymore. When I get stuck in a game, that's the only time I actually have fun, trying to figure it out and get better at it. Great Analysis!
I've been playing games since the start of the 90s for context. I still spend a lot of time gaming today. The word that irks me so much that I hear a lot nowadays, is "grind". it brings up such negative feelings in me about how people see playing games today. It's a game, should be about enjoying yourself.
I just feel uneasy about the word "grind".
Well-researched, well-reasoned, and well-said.
The day I came to the conclusion that I couldn't tell if I was enjoying games or if I was addicted was the day I stopped gaming as a hobby. That day I grew up.
Really thanks for the video!
I marked this out as well. Everything from what I take a big brake, like as you said for 2 weeks is extremely good. Not only it feels great to come back, but also you feel like you are totally renew, and everything is so easy, and you are so great!
The addicting part of playing games is mainly the competitive multiplayer aspect. People feel the need to compete with other people and prove something to them, or themselves. If you have a problem with being addicted to any sort of online game, stop playing it and switch to single player ones. The difference will be huge, in most cases. I played MOBA games (starting from the first Dota, ending on HotS) for like 10 years on/off, but then i've decided to just not play them anymore. I was addicted to the competitiveness. I now play single player, or multiplayer that include co-op only, and it gives me more fun for sure. So many great games that makes you actually relax, and not pissed off.
I love competitive games but I always strive to have at least one single player game which I can play when I get frustrated as soon as I complete that one I try to immediately download another.
This is very interesting because these days I keep seeing people who say they no longer enjoy playing Genshin Impact because it feels like a “chore”.
And tbh it really surprised me bc Im almost a year into the game and every day I play even if it’s just for 10 minutes and it’s still so much fun. This is usually at the end of the day and after studying and stressing the whole day I can’t help but feel happy logging on and grind away with my little characters while chatting with my friends.
But from what this video says I now understand why some people feel this way now. Amazing channel
"if you unlucky like 10 minutes" cracked me up
this video is super fitting for what recently happened to me. last year i was super addicted to apex. it was the first battle royale that i found myself having a lot of fun playing. i played with a friend consistently for about a year and it was around this time that the game just stopped being fun. i was taking it too seriously and even though i wasn’t having fun anymore i couldn’t bring myself to stop playing it. i used to play a lot of single player games and i stopped playing those because they didn’t even feel appealing to me anymore. about 2 months ago i took a break from video games because i was preparing for college and i was busy with work. this break did wonders for me. when i finally did start playing again i was actually having fun and i don’t feel addicted like before. i find that i don’t want to play for hours and hours like i used to. i’ve also gotten back into single player games and i feel like i’m back in middle school with how much i’ve been enjoying the games. it’s cool to know the medical/scientific reasons for why i was feeling the way i was and why the break i took helped so much
I’m currently in pursuit of a Legend Ironman run in XCOM WotC and it’s had me asking a lot of questions related to this. I DO love the design of the game and think it’s one of my favorites ever but I’m not sure I’m really enjoying this challenge. I’m utterly addicted and feel compelled to play until I win but it’s just consuming hours and hours of my life. 30hrs down the drain because of one scuffed mission out of 25+. Every mission requires rolling the dice on my soldier’s lives dozens and dozens of times which clearly triggers the gambling addiction.
So idk. I get mind-numbingly angry at the game and curse it more than I praise it but I keep trying. Masochism for sure…
Usually if I find myself frustrated with a challenge (usually self imposed), I take a sit back and ask myself "is this worth my time and frustration." From there I basically give myself two options. Is it possible to lower the difficulty to a more reasonable yet still challenging level, or just stop playing the game altogether for the moment. I have far too big a back log to get stuck on a frustrating pokemon rom or a hardcore run of a game, no matter how fun I thought the challenge or rewarding it would be at the start.
Long-term strategy games are by design easy to sink a bunch of hours into and feel like you don’t get enough out of them. When I get to the point in a play session when I start making decisions with little thought that’s when I usually stop.
I love x com but i stopped playing because of the dice roll nature of combat
Makes soo much sense. Especially I was too addicted to League of Legends. Now I am finally done with it and enjoying just normal so more fun games.
I try to change the way I think of playing a game. I see it as a way to practice skills or techniques. For example, I look up tricks for hoe to win at a game with TH-cam videos. Then, I try to practice those tricks in that game.
The result is that I find the video game much more boring (as one or a few problems seems solved) so that I have much more control over it in terms of when and how long a session I have, where before I would play for much longer periods and then regret it.
So, for me, seeing a video game as a way to apply the solutions others have found from it changes the nature of the game and even in a sense the game itself that I am actually playing, where what we call the game becomes more so the context, a sandbox.
Edit: Another example is when I played Minecraft multiplayer, at one point I saw the game as a communication game, where I could work on my communication skills.
You must be my new favourite cahnnel. Instantly subscribed. I used to play games a lot when i was at high school and at university and currently play some, but I got interested in psychology, nutrition, and fitness down the road. Nowadays I can see a clear parallel between food addiction and gaming addiction. It's super interesting ;)
This might explain why I like rogue-likes so much... They're addictive AND fun. At the same time.
this info worth millions, subbed.
Awesome tip, however if someone were to detox from games to reset their receptors, how long would it take to get bored with games(or anything really) again? Would be very interesting to hear dr. K expand on the topic
Thanks so much for explaining this. I've been extremely frustrated at the time I've been spending in League despite it proving absolutely 0 enjoyment. You've given me a ton to think about and I really appreciate that!
I think run-based games are also more fun because there's lots of variation, not much commitment, and it's much harder to get to a stopping point, as you can just play 'one more game'
I love this guy, finally a doctor that works with people and helps and informs not just saying games are bad and a waste of time.
Thanks for the video. Dr.K do you know why multiplayer games are so much more addicting than singeplayer games? I used to enjoy singple player games alot but I have been so addicted to multiplayer games lately
The competition or social aspect
Did you even watch the video?
I'm pretty sure the "battle royale" term can be used for MMOs here
'it also takes away pain from othe parts in your life' ..thats basically the nr1 reason why we gamers still play.
Quick caveat / opinion from a game designer: While only periodically winning might make something more addictive, it doesn't have to mean that its not fun. Winning isn't what makes something fun, its the journey. By losing a bunch and having to work for the win, the process of winning is actually deeply fulfilling and enjoyable for many. Its not an exact science but its okay to lose in games, doesnt mean the developer is maliciously manipulating players into playing over and over
I'm not implying that people don't get addicted to games, just that games arent always built to prey on players. There's just a lot of grey area between one person's fun and another person's addiction
While I agree, successful games aren't successful because they're boring. Some developers do add stuff to keep you playing, like GTA Online and the famous shark card (and as a bonus they make a ton of money).
In South Africa we currently have constant blackouts that can last up to 12 hours a day.
I struggled to enjoy games for a while but now that I'm forced to be bored for these long periods of time, I honestly feel like a little child when the power does come on and I can actually play some games.
I was wondering why his voice quality is worse in this video. Then I realised he is using the same headset I'm using, lmao.
this is why I quit rocket league. If I find it annoying, I just rage quit easily. Raging and still playing is what made me not able to stop
So you're saying I'm addicted to my job and I should not answer emails or phone calls for two weeks. Got it!
yes that is exactly what he said. if it was up to me i would totally say go do it.
I literally have been playing AOE 2 for 20 + year now and quite frankly I have never gotten sick of, I truly enjoy it. I think its because I relish the game play, not whether I win or lose. The game player in multi player always changes.
Hi, I have a question about one thing, if fun does decrease when we make habit of something, in this case, games, why frustration doesn't go away, like fun does, and people become toxic, even tho they partly make habit of it too?
Fun and frustration dont coexist, when you start a game you can feel fun, but when it becomes a habit, fun gives way to frustration, and that's when people start being "toxic".
I am not sure, but I will give you the best idea my mind thought of: Anger and frustration are part of a cycle of dissatisfaction and powerlessness. There was a time they enjoyed the game more, and so when the game becomes less enjoyable, they don't understand why and begin blaming others for the fact they're losing or having less fun. They have a harder time in life as they now have an addiction, and this cycle continues to worsen until the activity becomes so unfun and horrible that they break the pattern by getting help or trying to quit on their own.
I needed this perfectly. Thank you.
Video Games are always fun. That said, there are things you can experience that are more fun, but you aren't entitled to those experiences. Some things in life just aren't within someone's reach while others are.
I absolutely hear what you're saying and I don't dispute the veracity of your statements, but, for some of us (me) the denial of reward is what makes me quit games. If a game is very challenging, beyond my capabilities, I won't play. I don't mind some challenge, but if a game takes what I judge to be too much effort, I won't play. I've played games for about 20 years and I'm an older gamer. Some would call me a casual gamer, but that misses the point; I play games as a pastime, not for a lot of challenge. Fun is a separate issue. It's hard to find a game that's fun, these days. Most games seem to focus on challenge and complexity instead of fun. And, most of the casual games are uninteresting. For these reasons, MMOs, like ESO, are a good fit for me.
Interesting content, thanks for the video.
Congrats Dr.K on being the lead psychologist for EG! 🔥 hopefully this will give RTZ his first TI
What is EG
And RTZ and TI
@@thedoomslayer5863 EG is an dota 2 esports from the NA region, RTZ is one of the players. TI is short for the The International. It’s a major esports tournament held once a year.
The more you do something, the less pleasure you get over time. That is something that I really want to keep at the back of my mind. Investing so much time into video games just makes you feel miserable at times eventually. Honestly having another "time killer" not related to games or even just exposing yourself to boredom on a regular basis does go a long way into keeping a healthier relationship between you and video games.
Agreed. I used to play a lot of moba's (DOTA 2) in my college years. But i never realized that i did this unconsciously when i bored playing games, i just simply stop playing them for weeks even months and then get right back into it. Thank god now im stopping from multiplayer online games and more toward single player games, which you can play and take a break anytime.
How can you tell when a game is addicting or just time consuming?
For example if you're playing to reach a high level in an MMO, say you play 3 hrs a day until you reach the high level, is that an addiction? Or is it more of an addiction if you're playing 3 hrs a day at high level and not accomplishing anything (in the context of the game)?
Probably in how much enjoyment you can find in doing other things, when the addiction sets in other things start losing appeal and the thing you're addicted to becomes the only thing your brain allows you to do without pushback. Both are something to look out for though as you're less likely to notice the transition if you're already not having fun, but also if you find yourself spending tons of hours doing something you don't enjoy ask yourself: "How fantastic does the endgame has to be to be worth spending, say, 60 hours to (maybe) be enjoyable?".
I find that tunnel visioning towards the endgame in an mmorpg is doing yourself a disservice. A very large portion of the content lies within the leveling and if you take the time to enjoy it you'll have a better time overall. "Endgame is all that matters (because those are the only rewards that stick around)" is a pretty common sentiment, but if you aren't having fun then what are those rewards really worth?
I think there's something to be said about lightheartedness. Like when you are just messing around as opposed to being serious. It's usually with your friends. I just noticed those are the few times I dont get frustrated about dying in games and its really more of a funny thing than anything else.
Yeah but what do you do after the dopamine detox? Do you just play less?
You'll want to play less.
Pretty interesting approach to videogames. You gained a new suscriber
I would just like to say I am massively in favor of removing chat from the screen of all future videos
I think this is why roguelikes are so addicting too. When I lose, I don't feel upset, I just feel like I'm looking forward to the next run.
I find that what you need to look out for is when you play games(or watch porn) not because you want to, but because it's what you do. It's almost an obligation.
I did that with LoL back in 2012, I wasn't playing League because I had fun, or because I wanted to. I played league because that's what I do in my free time. So quitting League actually improved my mood by a lot! A LOT!
LoL is the worst game I've ever encountered the community brings you down. It's so depressing and aggressive
@@TheLilmage7 But oh boi was it amazing 10 years ago
This video was enlightening, I'm a mature 30+ yr old gamer woman (I play since I was 8) and I'm addicted to playing overwatch even tho half the time I'm raging, and I cant seem to stop. i install other games but they either bore me, or I get hooked until I finished them (ONLY if its a AAA like Ghost of Tsushima) . But in the end I ALWAYS go back to overwatch.
I do have "fun" tho.
I stoped enjoying story games when I was 14
And year ago I stop playing competitive games too. Now I play mobile time sinks while watch TH-cam videos I don’t enjoy them but I still play them. Idk why I feel like I need to play without enjoying them
In your situation I'd suggest that you write down your thoughts at the end of the day. Just 5 to 10 minutes of writing things down. What you did throughout the day, how you felt, what you ate. That will give your brain and mind room to breathe a bit, which may be part of the problem.
Video games distract from things, so if your brain simply needs to relax and think for itself a bit, you should probably let it do so, and just writing down some thoughts in a journal can be a good way to do that. Good luck :)
@@brianb2308 thank you
I've had the unfortunate experience of trying to live broadcast variety gameplay, while also grinding a lot in FXIV on my off-time. And yeah, it became this routine I just get sucked into, becoming more and more exhausted, ignoring my health, until I literally broke down and stopped doing both because nothing made me happy anymore.
Now I've been sticking to time-limited activities. No more grinding, and way less streaming, but more skill building/self care.
Just a tip, the best mic on a wireless headset is by far the one from corsair the tpain edition
Im deadass gonna look into this lol thank you
how bout a wired headset then :thinking:
and not in a very expensive price
@@vyra4896 For sure, but I imagine there is a reason he is using the wireless. But yeah the corsair one plugged in gets even better
This is such a weird paradox, but it explains eSports/battle royale addiction very well
Playing games in general just feels like effort and a chore to do. Doesn't matter what genre it is or how good the games are, I can't play for more than 1-2 hours before wanting to go outside or chat to friends or watch something.
someone hasnt gotten to play a good game with a 2nd monitor having youtube running
For me it's the opposite: the more games I play and the more I dopaminergic content I consume, the more I'm able to enjoy the little things in life
I just get baffled by the whole issue of taking your phone to the bathroom. I´ve never had trouble just taking the crap and getting it over with, even though I use a lot of technology.🤣
Yeah, the looking-down-on-the-phone pandemic is ridiculous. I can relate, but certainly not while I want to take a dump in peace lmao. That time of the day is holy and must never be tainted by addiction!
@@ETBrooD no cap it's pretty peaceful to just sit on the shitter and think about things
Taking a crap is boring tho
@@Hanex94 So is crossing the street, and yet you don't find me looking down on the phone while I do it lol
basically my idea of when i like a game is when a game is hard but not too hard, so you can win but not too often, so you get a feeling of accomplishment when you finally win
But trying over and over again doing the same thing to win a game is boring
Change your tatics, figure why you lost and improve upon that. Or maybe the opponent is having a good day.
@@tuningsnow playing on the same map/level over and over again is what bores me. One life in Mario is all I can handle.
this was a fascinating insight id never realised before, thanks!
people take their cell phone with them when they go to the toilet? what?
@@Swordman1111 ofc
Thanks for the help man
csgo players who tryhard and grind 10 hours a day in hopes of becoming pro are just sad
Having some other hobby to do really helps
As someone who draw, when i finally get burned out drawing, i find video games very exciting and when i bored of video games i find drawing exciting
Its a good loop
I agree. I have similar loops. Games, drawing, reading, building lego's, watching/listening podcasts or netflix. My problem however is bingeing whatever i'm into at the moment.I have tendency to obsess or go into a deep flow for hours.
"What can I do about it"
Don't play them, lol
1. There's a healthy way to keep video games in your life without them having negative impacts
2. "just do this" is never good advice lol it helps no one, it just makes people feel stupid
@@_WeDontKnow_ Bru, if you don't enjoy it, then don't do it, lmao, look away from the screen. I have the opposite problem - I like playing them too much. When I get bored with one, I'm already salivating about ten more in my mental backlog.
@@bennymountain1 it's almost like you read neither of the 2 points I sent
@@_WeDontKnow_ 3. Don't be a nerd.
@@bennymountain1 Damn you got me there bro. I'll take my L and leave
Your content is great! Keep doing the great job!
Wow, thanks for this video, it makes sense=)
So basically you can enjoy stuff once again by practicing a dopamine detox. but what will happen after you successfully achieve this? after some time will our brain take us back to the same place we where at the beginning?
Biggest cause of addiction is not fun,but rather the lack of it.
I love your videos! So helpful
As someone with pretty mild schizophrenia that not wanting to cook yourself a meal metaphor hit hard =D Loved the video!
Great advice!
I play video games all the time and I have learned that when I get used to certain rewards they are not rewarding anymore but when I change the game it will be rewarding again
You're right, being bored is terrifying. :(