What If the First Borders of Molotov-Ribbentrop Were Followed?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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I really doubt that poland would be more supportive of russia, instead of despising them more.
I think what Russia could do in that situation is offer them the possibility of restoring the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in exchange for more Russian influence over Poland.
eh i mean tbh poland was more supportive of russia then germany throughout history y'know congress of poland, during ww1, and for 2-3 centuries before with close polish and russian relations, but still yh poland at this point would rebel but the population would prob be split
@@Fracturin thats because of the tolerance of Imperial Russia, Soviets werent the same tho
i doubt that would happen as aggressive as it is right now because they would probably have a better treatment as a polish ssr than compared to occupied naz1 poland that is ethnically cleansed
No
Dude during ww1 both sides promised polish independance central powers had act of 5th november, as for before ww1 and both pro Russian and pro german forces saw them more as a tool of independance (or autonomy) if they win)
Congress Poland was due to push from british and austrian delegations (British delegation even created its constitution) before congress of Vienna it was pro napoleonic.
Before napoleon era it was influenced by Russia but same with Prussia beeing under influence is not "good relations", before it during union with Saxony it was Saxon diplomats that set relations with Russia so they were more due to good saxon relations with Russia
And for 2 centuries earlier most of the time Poland was pro french, pro austrian or isolationist because those were the biggest parties among nobility
I would like to see a “What If Everything Went PERFECT For Mexico” video since Mexico hasn’t been doing so hot through most of history.
The Habsburg monarchy would still exist to this day.
That would be an interesting video
I would love to see that, and maybe something similar for Poland or Armenia
Depends, does the kingdom of Mexico counts?
@@Madokaexe I would expect the empire under Iturbide to be the star of the show, either that or Mexico survives with its 1821 borders as an actual republic
If you assume that Poles from the Eastern Borderlands would not have been resettled to the Recovered Territories, I think it could lead to a territorial conflict between Poland, Belarus and Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR which would have disastrous consequences for the region. In that case relations between these 3 countries would be similiar to current Azeri-Armenian situation.
Didn't most of them have been killed by Bandera and the Nazis?
Breakaway republic of polesia?
There are a number of important resource deposits in Polish-populated areas of Ukraine, like natural gas deposits. If either Russia or Poland were to have a conflict seeking control over their claims in Ukraine, I think it's likely the other might jump at the opportunity, leading to a small partition of some of Ukraine's lands. This would create a lot of radicalism and anger in Ukraine. I think Belarusian involvement would be much like during the current Ukrainian war, where they mostly play along with Russian interests.
They could and would have been resettled to East Prussia and West Prussia (Danzig etc.) in our Timeline, the eastern territories that germany lost had far more people than the number of polish people settling there. Thats sometimes the case even today. My family had a big farm near Küstrin, which now still exists, but basically rotting alone. My family doesn’t really like poles, as they completely mismanaged the former rich territories of Ostdeutschland. I know its not entirely their fault, but yeah, i dont hate them anyways.
Resettling the Poles to Upper Silesia and the other territories shown in the video, might just be enough and perfect for the amount of poles actually present in Belarus and Ukraine.
I personally think that Sweden would join NATO earlier, I think this because A in our timeline Finland was an effective buffer between Sweden and the Soviets but with a communist Finland, Sweden would be way more exposed and might feel it is necessary to join NATO as to have a deterrent against the Soviets invading like Turkey or Greece
I kind of want him to make a opposite “Perfect” Series, exploring what would happen if everything went wrong for a Country
What if everything went to shit
Wouldn't it just lead to the country to stop existing at the end?
@@empereurloutremaybe he means the country in question ends up like Somalia.
Independent, but holy shit what went wrong.
@@aalapmittra5250 What if France and the UK opposed the Rheinland militarization and the Soviets rejected the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact?
Polish history be like
I wonder if Kekkonen would still be in charge of Finland, he is pretty instrumental in Finland's development and huge advocate for European peace
Heck no, he was on the white side in the civil war
Ooooh, removing Kekkonen does have massive butterflies, doesn't it?
Nice to see representation on the map for the armies
“The Soviets killed all of their competent generals” shows picture of yezhov, known as the architect of the great purge.
Well this is the reason lol, Yezhov was the face of the late Great purge, but after it Stalin didn't need him and blamed him for repressions and executed him.
@@AmirSatt Stalin didn’t organize the great purge. He allowed it to happen yeah but he didn’t organize it.
What if, instead of ending with an unstable series of distinct peace treaties, WW1 had ended with a new Congress of Vienna establishing a new stable world order?
Imposible
So you are saying dissolving two of the three major central powers and making it so the third must have an army smaller then Belgium and make them pay for all damages caused by the war may have been a bit extreme caused by a France who was extremely mad at the idea of Germany, a Britain who still disliked the Germans but were neutral, and America who said self determination. Imagine if American wasn’t apart of the peace deal.
@@kylezdancewicz7346 Thank you for summarizing known history. Dont feel too bad for the Germans though, they did deport or massacre 20% of the Belgian population.
I could imagine Stalin letting a Polish SSR keep Lwow to try to keep stability in the region.
You do understand that poland still occupies a good chunk of russia that was back then settled by russians, don't you?
I dont think the soviets would have taken a million casualties. While they did embarass themselves in the first half, as soon as Timoshenko took control and the red army learned, the losses started going up FAST for Finland. If the soviets pushed for annexation and the fins fought to the end, the losses would have been pretty balanced.
This guy is very pro west(youtuber)
@@RussianNationalist That is just the average history youtuber this side of the world sadly, still cant believe they mention stuff like "The americans initiate their lend lease to the soviets" as if that was any sort of big deal when only 4% of soviet equipment came from them
Also dont forget how he just decides that all of asia falls to the americans despite mentioning one of the big reasons the japanese surrendered was the soviet invasion of manchuria alongisde the nukes
We know Imperial Japan, they would have fought on and on, long enough for an eventual late soviet invasion into Manchuria in 1946 even, there is absolutely no way they would surrender early giving the west all of Korea and China on a silver plate like this video implies, that was the worst of it to me imo
@@RussianNationalistomg really? thank you @RussianNationalist! ill make sure to stay clear of this NATO IMPERIALIST EXPANSIONIST PROPAGANDIST!!!
@@RussianNationalistno
@@RussianNationalistyea and just by your name we can tell who your leaning towards
Wouldn't the extra 750 000 casualties from Finland, especially if they are rebbelious too much for the soviets? Added with the reddit encirclement, i don't think they would loose, but I don't see why the allies would grant them so much territory post war
Yeah, more intrestingly, i think unthinkable could happen due to Churchill wanting to liberate poland
The Power of the soviets was that they could mobilize ALL the manpower that could resonably be mobilized and then some!
even if they're pushed back even behind the urals, the Germans will still be the ones running out of material and Manpower first! (Soviets can't "lose" because the endgame was literally their genocide, there is no such thing as a surrender so it doesn't really matter how much the germans push)
Probably because winter war is used a justification to mine and "invade" Norway and stop Germany from it's irons in Sweden, both are neutral country (casual Britain experience, I know). So as a secret deal, Britain would relent giving a lot of territories to Stalin as an effort to fight Germany indirectly. That could force Norway and Sweden to join Axis and make far more wild alternate history than it is.
@@Abd121 allies might just broke the pact since soviet union cant push enough to Germany (at least Churchill wanted to do that to restore the old Poland)
I think a smaller East Germany (sans thuringia and sachsen anhalt) then a allied Austria would of been more realistic
the armies are defiantly a great addition, the circles are defiantly a good touch to add distinctness to your channel. Another great video about a quite interesting under represented topic, amazing work 😄.
Another interesting thing is a possible revanchist Poland. They were on the victorious side of the war, and yet they got erased from the map, becoming smaller when finally achieving independence. This and the fact that they lost lands to USSR and gained from Germany, would likely put them closer to the West and might triger 3rd World War.
Excellent video, I would go into detail about how correct your post war analysis is about Korea and Vietnam for example, but I don’t think people would want to read another super long analysis comment from me 😊
I love how this channel had really been advancing slowly
Ukraine and Belarus would probably be deeply integrated into Russia in this timeline with the Eurasian Economic Union possibly being a serious economic player. Maybe even with better overall relations with the West. (Think 2000s-2014 era Russia, somewhat tense but still partners)
Of course places like Poland, Finland, Moldova/Romania or even the Balkans become places where Russia are waging war right now for their own national self-interest. In that case it's more or less our timeline.
This is by far your best/most realistic video. Amazing job ❤
I can't believe that you still find places you can improve in, this is amazing
Petsamo was missing from that one map
I’d personally like to see a What if everything went PERFECT for Belgium soon, since they had some of the most industrialised land around the 1800’s which could maybe have helped them
Not really, a quite small state surrounded by major powers with not a lot of population, very Little own culture, history and National integrity by design won't achieve much.
Industry is important, but it's not enough to make country like belgium strong enough to oppose countries like Prussia, Netherlands, France or UK
Another great video by Possible history! KEEP POSTING I LOVE IT
But without the Soviets spending hundreds of billions of dollars in eastern asia they'd either double down on their efforts to de-stabilise the west or focus inwards and wait for the Americans to budge
3:44 wasn't the bucovina not included in molotov-ribentrop pact?
If it wasn't, then they'd probably annex it in the WW2 peace deal anyway.
@@gengarzilla1685 u sure? hitler actually hated that stalin took it (as far as I know), and, well, it is indeed a change in molotov-ribentrop *borders*
4:53 I never knew pearl harbor was soviet
Always looking forward to your videos! Please do one on a perfect Italy timeline🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
for finland, it would happpened differently, you should check out the karelo finish ssr that actually existed :)))
Existed is right. It's gone now
@@henriikkak2091 what
I personally think that Sweden would join NATO earlier, I think this because A in our timeline Finland was an effective buffer between Sweden and the Soviets but with a communist Finland, Sweden would be way more exposed and might feel it is necessary to join NATO as to have a deterrent against the Soviets invading like Turkey or Greece
Epic videos. Keep it up, makker.
Video idea: what if Italy stayed a monarchy?
3:09 this applies very well in this day and age too
Without the Korean War I doubt Germany would be a powerhouse, not to mention the Domino Theory possible not being a thing of consideration for most US politicians. With such a world I would assume the Soviet would be more aggressive, perhaps a early Nordic entry to NATO, a more permanent CENTO?
If Chang doesn’t align too much with the West I doubt they would be more aggressive
@@ciii4361 In all honesty Chang can go either India (ie neutral but friendly with the Soviets) or go Yugoslavia. But no matter what they choose a "relatively stable" China that doesn't isolate itself or go "Leaping Forward" would possibly be a powerhouse both blocs couldn't afford to antagonist much.
I still wait for scenario where Poland isn't in somehow even worse position than in our original timeline
Interesting scenario, but implausible. Operation Barbarossa was a race against time, and German tanks lost most of gas reaching Moscow, despite a lot of encirclements of Soviet troops in 1941 IRL( Belostok, Uman, Kiev). So slightly changed borders wont bring enough difference. Also the fact that Finland is subdued would help, as there wont be a free passage for German troops and no way for to start Leningrad blockade, also Finnish ports could be used to transport Lend- Lease materials even more efficient.
Also some finns in the Red Army would very handy in winter 1941. Actually USSR was recovering from 1941 defeats so good, they tried counterattack right in winter 1942, as Luban operation to free Leningrad.
how much a subdued finland would help would be determined by how much resistance there is there. why would fins be trusted in the red army? (and counter attacks are not indicative of recovery.
I think a bigger problem the soviets would face is less lendlease. they would have antagonised the british alot more in this timeline (who were already upset over finland irl) due to taking alot more of finland and poland. while also being seen as incompotent. meanwhile the us would see the soviets as not much different to the germans or the japanese (agressive expansionist). they might still provide some aide, but the goal of the aid would only to keep germany buissy not help them completely defeat the germans.
@@KaiserlicheKonigliche that's shocking how everybody here believes that Finns would fight or die... Was there much resistance in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania? NO. So why Finland would? Did Stalin have a goal of mass genocide Finnish people? No. So what are reasons for not installing a puppet regime here? ( just like in Poland after WW2).
this video i noticed better map quality and production, i dont know whether that is just me, but Good job possible history!
Can you do: What if France and Germany had a diplomatic solution over Elsass-Lothringen before WW1? Like splitting it on linguistic borders?
@@finitatem If linguistic borders were used, then Germany would have to return the city of Metz to France. If it was part of a larger gesture by Germany to bring about some form of 'détente' with France, it might've been just enough to normalize relations (given that the only other way France would get any of the territory back, would be full scale war). By the early 1900s, revanchist sentiment had declined in France, so accepting a limited compromise wouldn't necessarily have been out of the question for France. However, Germany made no such gesture, probably because Metz was of military importance (which is why they took it in the first place), and later also became of increasingly economic value. Anyway, given the militarism prevalent in Europe at the time, (which also has been seen as characterising Imperial Germany), I can't see them willingly giving away territory gained in war.
@@finitatem Yes agreed, France originally seized Alsace-Lorraine by force and then acted like it had always been core French territory. I discussed the potential return of Metz to France, as the o.p. suggested a diplomatic solution by means of "linguistic borders".
The problem was France simply could not, and would not, come to terms with the loss of the territories, and their resulting perpetual hostility to Germany was a potential threat to Germany if they won others to their side. The only way around it for the Germans would be either to somehow placate the French with some kind of compromise, or to isolate them. Bismarck's skillful diplomacy successfully isolated them, but sadly after he had been dismissed, Wilhelm II lacked the necessary diplomatic skill, and his 'sabre rattling' diplomacy only succeeded in pushing Russia & Britain on to the side of France.
Day 15 of asking for what if everything went perfect for Romania
Romanian black sea mare nostrum
@@AmirSatt I like that idea, but its not too realistic
The reason the soviets has such a hard time in Finland was largely because they seriously underestimating the Finn's resistance efforts and only prepared what they thought they would need for the war, instead their supplies ran out and facing constant shortages of everything for much of the war until later when Stalin authorized sending more and more supplies because the war was embarrassing for the soviets, it didn't help that the soviet military was in utter disarray because of Stalin's purges. Just looking at the Winter War on paper its hard to see how the Finns survived, you have to look at the deeper aspects like tactics and preparations to understand it. Had the soviets been properly prepared, they would have conquered the Finns.
Except that they tried again and failed again
What an interesting scenario, i like it, continue making history possible :D
Idea man! What if harold godwinson defeated william and England remained under the anglo saxons? Love your channel and work!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤
Awesome video! Amazing like usual 🎉
Damn the butterfly effect be wild in this timeline.
Millions more dead
Awesome scenario.
In this time line Czechoslovakia, will probably get Lusatia (didnt get it in our time line cause the east germany will be small if it get), Kłodzko (in our time line it was almost for between Czechoslovakia and Poland) and cities of Racibórz and Gubczyce (i our time line happened the same thing as with Kłodzko)
unlikely.
"I am altering the deal, pray i don't alter it any further"
Finland: *gains some territory as a concession, but is not independent*
I have won, but at what cost...
Funny that would be second coming. IRL Karelia was owned by Russian empire until Russian victory over Sweden, after which Russia got Finland and gave them Karelia.
@@alexzero3736 *Swedes you mean?
@@NovikNikolovic ofc😅
@@alexzero3736 Karelians aren't Russian. Or weren't, thanks to Stalin
@@henriikkak2091 read about Great Northern war. I speak facts.
Hey i've seen you bring up American lend lease in the War of the Eastern front more recently. I would just like to know if your opinions on American lend lease have changed?
USSR had problems with initial finland defence. Once soveits were through there was nothing that could actually stop them ( in terms of defence) therefore entire Finland would be around 300k not a 1kk
This’ll be interesting!
Yes
Yep
I still do think the Americans would still lose Vietnam as even with a combined Chinese force the Vietcong Guerrilla warfare would still be unmatched , they were still able to defeat the Chinese in a war separately , so I don’t think a combined Sino American alliance would do much , as most of the Chinese troops would still be heavily under equipped
Which map do you use? and how do you go about drawing your borders?
One alternate history I've been wanting to see for years is what if Britain fell into revolution instead of France
intresting idea
Every time i look at a Map of War Lord Era China i want to rip my eyes out.
Happy soviet union. Order has been restored to the channel😂😂😂😂😂
can you do all wars of britain and france? would like to see how they score against the others!
To be honest and no offense intended, I feel that you can do things in more interesting and comprehensive ways. The topic is indeed interesting, but there are things that I cannot leave as they are set here:
1. First of all, maps' accuracy, but that's relatively minor thing.
2. Proposed casualties of the Red Army in Winter War are just ridiculous. Finns' defenses were actually broken by the time war ended in OTL, and I doubt that Finns could manage to set even some sort of defense further in deeper Finnish territories. Their industries and manpower were not just limited compared to the USSR, but already started to deplete, as well as army capabilities. If Soviets wished to proceed, as in this video, and if we suppose that their end-goal in the long run was a total annexation of Finland (as for me, we don't know for sure what were the plans actually - there was a Finnish Democratic Republic project of Stalin's, which was nominally not the part of the USSR and precisely with aim of "liberating it's territory", but one could only assume that after completion of FDR "liberation" it could be incorporated in the Union proper), then Soviets would have need to push only slightly further to crush Finnish army as an organized standing force. Even if we suppose that casualities predicted are not necessarily mean KIA or MIA, but even those who would be WIA and later relieved to fight another day, the number of 500.000, 550.000 at most, total casualities is the one I could believe as realistic.
3. The real issue is, however, the German-Soviet war itself. If we suppose that Lithuania would be annexed, occupied or puppeted by the Reich and therefore forced into the war, it hard to predict what directions actually would be taken by the Wehrmacht. It could be, of course, very "appetizing" target to encircle entire Byelorussian and Kievan MDs, but such target could be designed only as a first step of sorts, and not as such that could be more important than northern or southern. Taking in consideration that to pocket all of that Soviet forces in region Germans had to somehow break through the Pripyat' marshes or bypass them from the east, I doubt that Wehrmacht, even with absolutely disastrous Soviet commanding on the start of the war, could have the resources to do it in time. What could be, however, is a number of pockets that happened in OTL, but with much more Soviet forces to dispatch, and, perhaps, Bialystok-Minsk encirclement would be as disastrous for the Soviets as it was with one at Kyiv. Because of Lithuania under Axis, however, I think that it raises a lot of questions about the Leningrad direction. On the one hand, the distance needed to Wehrmacht to reach Leningrad becomes much lesser than in OTL, and this could become crucial - and deadly - blow for Soviets trying to organize city's defence. On the other, however, Soviets need not to spread about half a million of troops on the Northern Front, and even if we assume that about a half of it could be sent to Lapland and Murmansk regions to block possible German offensives there, as well to man the coastal defences, such force is a pleasant addition for the Red Army there. Moreover, even if Germans would reach outskirts of Leningrad and pass further to the Svir river and Tikhvin, it would not be as deadly as it was in OTL for Leningrad. You see, there was a siege, and with Finns grabbing lands all the way down to that Svir river the city of Leningrad became choked with enemy forces clawing on it's supply routes. In OTL, if Germans would manage to hold out in Tikhvin for a long time enough, Leningrad would have just starved and run out of ammo to the breaking point. And it had starved indeed, about a million or even a million and a half of Leningrad denizens perished. Could it be so in the case when Finland is under Soviet control? I highly doubt it - with such devastating effect, at least, for Germans in no possible way could surround the city by themselves either by marching down from the Finnmark or round the Ladoga lake. And that raises another question: could Germans attempt naval invasions in Finland with aim to use Finnish resentment in their goals? Here I doubt too much to state something clearly, for I lack a knowledge about both maritime capabilities and the possible performance of German naval invasions in Baltic sea. The topic that could be interesting to speculate on is the possibility of Finnish uprising akin to Lithuanian, and what would be it's chances. The last thing that's curious is how would Baltic nations' representatives view themselves in front of Russia, Germany and others after the WW2 in such conditions as they were laid in that video.
all those people saying first gonna be crying when they don’t get top page
How do you do a video on what if Molotov-Ribbentrop was applied successfully and fail to show an accurate map? Romania was supposed to only lose Bessarabia, not also Northern Bukovina and the Hertsa region as it did in reality
Cry about it Romangutan
@@lordmilchreis1885 syck it "lord milchreis"
@@lordmilchreis1885"Romangutan"
Lol what XD
W video, this is 100% going to make my day
Cool vid, but map has some mistakes.
Not in initial plan, nor in edited, Bukovina wasn't meant to be a part of USSR, and in both of them, Przemyszl was annexed by USSR, but you used HoI4 map for this one.
When u realise PH forgot to give Hatay to Turkiye until the end of ww2 when it was given to Turkiye in 1939
It's not really relevant to the video subject anyway. Just a minor blunder.
I would very much like for you to make a perfect France video. Also, when will the scramble for Africa videos come out?
Yey a new vid
what would happen with polpot, as he in our timeline was overthrown by the communist Vietnam, in this timeline communist Vietnam doesn't exist
They get overthrown by the USA instead
Instead of The USA getting defeated in Vietnam, they would win, giving the USA confidence against Communism
The USA would invade Cambodia, and in the end, they conquer the hearts and minds of the Cambodians, and create a state 10,000 times better than the Khmer Rouge.
algorithm babyyyyy great video as always etc.
The main consequence I see is we wouldn't have gotten The Witcher III.
I dont think the soviet union invaded finland to reconquer all of it, if i recall correctly all that they desored were the border changes so that leningrad wouldnt be so open to assault, but i might be incorrect
That was the official aka fake reason.
1.) Finland with its 3 million people would never have invaded the USSR with its 360 million.
2.) Interestingly the areas the USSR demanded included all of Finland's fortifications. (Ask the Czech how giving away your defences went for them)
3.) Finland offered concessions but the Soviets refused.
4.) The Soviets took FAR more than they initially demanded after the Winter War including Finland 2nd largest city. (Oh and in typical fashion they deported the population.)
@@K_1_T_S_U_N_E They attacked the Soviet Union twice. The first time in 1920 and the second in 1921-1922 and seized part of the territory of the Union in an attempt to create a Great Finland. They collaborated militarily with the Japanese and Germans even before 1939. Finn could easily attack at a moment of weakness of the Union again.
I'm too lazy to answer the rest of the stupidity
1:50 they also took Petsamo, a minor Finnish territory on the arctic sea.
Excellent video as usual regardless ofc
They took Petsamo after 1945.
@@cub8280 They took it in 1944, later buying a tiny extra territory in 1947.
And even if that was the case, the video had maps of Finland that excluded it and implied Finland gained it upon being added as an SSR.
0:00 is it me or have you given transnistria to Romania on the map for some reason?
what if harold hardrada conquered in england in 1066
I don't see how or why acquiring a few extra territories in Poland would make the Soviet Union win the war against Finland but ok
This video is kinda also if the soviets won the Finnish war
they did win the war against finland in the OTL though, they just decided to end with a minor victory as the fins put up to much resistance. this timeline is the orginal borders and thus forces the soviets to take those casaulties to get a complete victory inorder to have those borders.
As a fellow Dutchman can you do: What if the Netherlands got its proposed annexed territories after ww2?
Video idea: what if the Hussites won? It could result in a big Bohemia or something idrk
What if England won the Hundred Years' War? would be an interesting video.
The Dual Monarchy
England remains in france and English Language remains more french. Resulting in no stewart or george monarchies.
England winning would mean England losing, they just turn into France.
They did tho
@@rbxless The UK lost their claim to the Kingdom of France. They lost.
'Million soviet casualties'
Dude, you didn't study history of this war didn't ya? Soviets kept bashing on mannerheim line, it was a meatgrinder, because they didn't have big artillery guns to break the walls and bunkers at the time. In a such small tile a very big concentration of troops made it bloody. Eventually Finland lost because their line was breached and soviet high command decided that main goal is fulfilled, declining Finnish peace offer to them was a sign of showing their nature of conquerers, instead of 'working class, people liberator'. If they thought to screw it and ordered the army to go in fight they would easily go right through the coast of Finland and panic city of Helsinki would simply not stand as Red army gained new artillery weapons ans has a new rifle parts. Finland despite having dozens of brave commanders and courageos soldiers could not win, Finnish high command understood that once Mannerheim line is over it is not possible to defend Helsinki, what Mannerheim himself thought.
Possible History, I know it’s very minor. But, you initially forgot Finland’s Petsamo province.
He didn't. That was taken in 1945 after Finland's surrender.
Always it’s Silesia where there’s border changes. 😂 If there was a Possible History drinking game this would definitely be an entry.
Now I am wondering if this timelines germany would be the 3rd biggest economy by now (4th in our timeline japan is 3rd)
Oh thats intresting! A cold war that is just in europe (and maybe cuba as well) i wonder if the soviets would be bogged down by how much they need to rebuild poland. Since that is the reason they never annexed it in out timeline.
they don't spend as much aiding asian communists so it probably evens out
Why would China be weaker in this scenario? Sure, nationalists wouldn't be exactly best of friends with the west, but still west would be much more willing to invest into this alternate China. Kuomintang for sure would have to fight some kind of guerilla warfare against the communist or have high civilian unrest, however China wouldn't have experienced Mao's disastrous policies. I don't think that China would necessarily become democratic and basically becoming American ally as with Taiwan in our timeline, but China would start to open up to outside world much earlier(Since China wouldn't have any problems with international recognition and less hostile to western powers, thus China would be far less isolated), which in turn would lead to Chinese economic miracle happening earlier. With all these factors considered China would be same as if not even stronger than China in out timeline.
I don’t know in the pyramid of the world economy China wasn’t Japan and after US having Japan under their control why should they allow the creation of a new more powerful Japan? And why should the Chinese warlords allowing the new central government which need them to stop communist penetration to be stronger?
The nationalists had a terrible backwards economy full of inflation, a broken currency and an unwillingness to do land reform. Tbe communists fixed ALL of these issues, but get 0 recognition for it from you westerners.
Less absolute control and a generally more corrupt and incompetent government would have it be less centralized. I imagine it following a route closer to India personally
do you have any source about stalin preferring chang kai over mao
Video Idea, What if everything went perfect for the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The armies made it 10x better 🤩
I have a slight inkling China would be more powerful, considering Shek probably wouldn't take a great leap forward off a cliff
2:40😂 Around million casualties seriously??? Soviets IRL were not far from Helsinki when peace treaty was signed.
Soviet high casualties were caused by difficult land and Mannerheim defensive line, since Soviet did break through it, Finland was defenceless.
Never mind that most of them talk about history who have not studied at university and had master's degrees have only read Wikipedia, forums or reddit; They will never have read an academic book or books or historical documents. Already in this channel in other videos were said of that bullshit, Italy in the First World War, my god it was like hearing an astrologer have a university chair of astronomy, a horror.
Yep, i find it seriously funny when people say finland could fight off the soviets for years even after their defensive line was broken
There are thousands of lakes, thick forests and deep snow. Even in 1943 when USSR totally dominated Germany they decided to not try conquering Finland
Pretty much all of eastern Finland is excellent defensive ground in terms of geography. Swamps, lakes, thick forests and rivers are everywhere in Finland. The Mannerheim line was the only concrete defensive line but behind it would be countless natural obstacles for the invading soviet army.
Adding to that the Finns would most likely use guerilla units that would go behind soviet lines to distrupt soviet logistics like they did in our timeline.
@@AlreadyTakenTag what would they eat in Eastern Finland?
Vatniks be crazy for this one
0:21: 🌍 Exploring a hypothetical scenario where the Molotov-Ribbentrop borders were successfully implemented in 1941.
3:16: 🌍 Germany gains control of most of Europe while the Soviets expand their territory in Eastern Europe.
5:48: 🔑 The delay in the European War had major effects on the conclusion of the Asian theater, including the Japanese surrendering before the end of 1945.
8:22: 🌍 The video discusses the changes in China and the borders of Eastern Europe after World War II.
11:15: 🌍 The potential consequences of Poland aligning with Russia instead of the West and the vulnerability of Baltic states to Russian aggression.
Recap by Tammy AI
Switzerland is either very light blue or has turned into the sea
Where do you get the map??¿
3:13 what is this footage from?
in 1939 Finland had the second hand but still amazing video
Wow!
Insane how just a minor difference a century ago compleately changes the modern world
1:59 you forgot to include that petsamo in northern Finland was still controlled by the finns
This means an independent Tibet and stronger India which influences Tibet if China doesn't and a very weak Pakistan.
More likely the kuomintang would just invade tibet instead of the CCP. They were nationalists, not Liberal pacifists.
@@mappingshaman5280also Mongolia would be attacked by the nationalists after the end of the USSR
@@mappingshaman5280 but the Nationalist China would have been pretty unstable and would take years to be stable by which India could easily influence over Tibet
@akibalazad eh by then I think either the dictatorship would have fallen or they'd be too paranoid about the reaction of the Liberal world order
The Nationalists would've barely won, @@indiradevi8136 and as a result of the instability, is unable to invade Mongolia sadly.
If you dont know vietnam line is after geneva agreement1954 when viet minh win france .In fact, this is an agreement between Viet Minh and France, not the Soviet Union and the United States.if not has ccp, america will ignored first indochina war and viet minh will win and unify the country in 1954 not like 1975
In fact, half of the weapons and ammunition the VC used came from the black market because the Saigon government was corrupt
so what im getting from this is that germyny will be bigger in the end? i see this as an absolute win (because east germany is bigger tho, there may be a proxy war here instead because the millitary industrial complex cant enrich themselves in korea or vietnam)
korea was kinda neutral, while west and east germany where occupied by the soivets /wester allies.... so that would have ment a direct war
Nice
Good video but you completely forgot about how Sinkiang was a soviet puppet
It was a sort of puppet indeed, yet rogue and unreliable. In 1942, when Fall Blau was commenced, Sheng Shicai of Xinjiang thought that the USSR was living it's last days, and thereby he changed allegiance pledging his loyalties with Kuomintang. He did not stop to be a rogue warlord though, and because of that he was later disposed of by central Chinese government when Sheng tried to get back under the Soviets. Such were peculiarities of Chinese Warlordism, with fellows like him all over since 1912 up to 1945.
"real good thinking there Joe" You know that every major action taken by Stalin had to be approved by the Supreme Soviet? He couldn't do everything he wanted, all the actions that were passed was approved by the majority of the Supreme Soviet.
Basically they were mostly his allies so he usually got what he wanted. Or if you deny then you go to the gulag. (stalin sent a man to the gulag for stopping clapping first)
@@earthball20240 evidence of that, only anecdotal evidence from Solzhenitsyn in gulag archipelago.
@@tiagomd3811 i don't know why i believed that. Thats like believing william howard taft got stuck in a bathtub. Thanks for reminding me
@@earthball2024 No problem bud
That doesnt work when everyone in the supreme soviet had ties to Stalin.