Street Epistemology: Madison | Basket of Proofs
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ม.ค. 2018
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 9 January 2018
Released: 18 January 2018
Twitter: / magnabosco (follow me)
TH-cam: / magnabosco210 (tons of Playlists)
Facebook: / magnabosco210 (like my page)
Website: anthonymagnabosco.com (contact me, appearances)
SE Resources: tinyurl.com/abm-se-resources
SE Community: tinyurl.com/abm-se-community
Audio Only: / ep-214-dialogue-anthon...
Audio correction provided by Philipp Grzemba.
** Add foreign language captions w/TH-cam's community contributions tools **
Summary: Madison is an enthusiastic theist who appears to have spent a great deal of time thinking about her God belief. During this talk, we inspect the "proofs" sitting in her basket that justify her high degree of confidence that "the God of Israel" exists.
Recorded w/Go-Pro. Edited w/PowerDirector.
The views addressed here are mine and mine alone, and are not necessarily shared by members of my family and friends.
#StreetEpistemology #Magnabosco #Christianity #JesusChrist #Faith #BasketOfProofs #ProofOfGod #GodOfIsrael #Atheism #Evidence #Apologetics #Bible #AnthonyMagnabosco #PersonalExperience
Madison reminds me a lot of my younger self, when I was a believer. Similar zeal, enthusiasm, joy and sincerity. Ultimately, traveling extensively and living in non-Christian environments did the trick. Today I am more of a humanist. If I could shed the dogma (Southern Baptist/Evangelical), anybody can. Madison has great potential to do the same. This might be the start. Good job, Anthony. Good luck, Madison!
Major Allen Espy same. Are you familiar with ATF?
Major Allen Espy
"Madison reminds me a lot of my younger self, when I was a believer."--
Being a Christian is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Being a "Former Believer" is tantamount to a man heading down to the courthouse and filing divorce papers against his wife of 40 years, Reason:
*My Wife Doesn't Exist !!*
"Ultimately, traveling extensively and living in non-Christian environments did the trick."---
So the reason God doesn't exist... is traveling and listening to atheists??
Define Non-Sequitur Fallacy...?
Hope it helps
ps. They both have no idea of what "FAITH" is.
Quantum Eraser, are you suggesting that Hindus, Muslims, and other non-christian theists are actually atheists?
Quantum Eraser these so called personal experiences witb God are the same biological reactiins to sex gambling and drugs
In case anyone was fooled by Quantum Eraser's response, it is wrong on so many levels...
The divorce example is a strawman since a wife is substantially different than a belief in a god that tons of people can't even agree upon. A wife can literally be seen, touched, and verifed to exist by objective members of a third party. NONE of that is true for a god. The more accurate analogy would be him *thinking* he was married for 40 years then travelling the world and realizing from other people's descriptions and practices of marriage that he was *never married* in the first place!
And regarding Major's traveling comment, he means it helped him shed dogma by being exposed to a variety of beliefs other than Christianity. The lack of dogma allowed him to make his own evaluations rather than just following what he was inculcated with. As pointed out by others, these were most likely NOT atheist. This is not at all a non sequitur.
And your final fail is assuming that Major is making the hard claim that god *does not* exist. He didn't write that and it is unfair to assert that is his belief. He only says he no longer believes [the claim that god exists]. No longer believing [the claim that god exists] is NOT the same as making the separate claim that god *does not* exist. If that is unclear consult a logic teacher or text book.
I like her, she's smart & honest. I wish more ppl had the courage to be as honest with them selves as she is
Sorry but Madison's baseless assertions did not establish her as either intelligent or honest. Unless of course, Madison is entitled to her own truth. Intelligent people don't declare, "I don't want answers".
I'd want to date her lol only because she possesses the same idioms as me. Wouldn't be fare though being that in her mind I'm going to hell.
"Madison's baseless assertions did not establish her as either intelligent or honest" unfortunately intelligence is not an iron clad defence against irrational beliefs. I think Anthony is on the right track with his empathy arguments - when you come to come to understand that others use similar reasoning to come to different conclusions, then that can be telling. And so many otherwise intelligent people have feet of clay in one way or another.
Aye, it's refreshing to hear someone openly and honestly discuss her/his beliefs and recognize any flaws in reasoning. People really seem to underestimate the power of active listening in dialogues and interactions and are often too occupied injecting and clinging onto letting the other person know what they themselves believe.
I would agree that Madison is only human, and in some of the worst of ways. As such and as the video clearly demonstrates, she has an infinite capacity for self-deception.
In the beginning Madison sounded like she was reciting things she'd heard and said many times before. She had a cadence in her speech. It took 33 minutes until she said "yes", that someone could have faith about something that's not true. You took her out of her comfort zone just a bit. I'll bet she'll see this and yes, she already seems great at SE. She seemed deeply engaged, and I hope she sees some of your other videos and presentations.
Agreed. I feel like a lot of her answers were “things she should say“ versus “things she actually wants to say“. I feel like she answered some things too quickly, and gave one of those types of responses. I really enjoy it when people pause before they answer because then you can see the gears turning and they’re about to give a real answer.
Yes the initial parts so heavy influence of apologetics
I am always amazed that people can see that those of different faiths can give the exact same reasons for 100% belief, but not realize that this should mean those reasons should be tossed out for that very reason.
And then you bring the same thing up in the afterword. Lol
You and I could both give the same reasons why our moms are the best moms and it does not mean that both claims get thrown out because of it. But even still, those are opinions. Which God is true is only provable by having an encounter with said God. Because you have not had an encounter does not mean that I didn't. We can't prove or disprove anyone else's claims. What we CAN do is seek God for ourselves...OR, based on our own logic, choose not to believe at all, without seeking what is beyond this material world.
A.D.
Did you seek god for yourself, or did you inherit your parents or regions god? That’s the main point. Where you’re born is by far the biggest factor in determining what god you follow, and that in itself should be the biggest red flag to those who have been indoctrinated.
A.D. I don’t believe my mom is the best mom. In fact I’m quite sure she isn’t. I am objective about everyone and avoid partiality.
A.D. ,
You could believe or not believe and Still be wondering what the efff ..is after death ??🤔😳🥴🤷🏻♂️
To elaborate...this is as close to the definition of a "conversation" as it gets. Two people being respectful while trying to better understand the others beliefs. It was a pleasure to watch a seasoned pro engage with an articulate interlocutor. Well done.
I think she found herself taken in by Anthony at the end there. You could just tell. Call it an intellectual attraction. She didn't want to run right off and leave forever, having made that connection. You have to realize that for him, it's just another day in the office. But for the interlocutors, this can be a very profound interaction.
I felt the same way, she wanted to go have a cup of coffee and dig much more deeply. I hope she finds truth.
I think you’re spot on, I could sense that exact reluctance to want to leave as being slightly upset the conversation was ending and the two of them likely wouldn’t ever talk again.
I think you might be project there, what others have said tracks as far more likely, imo.
I agree, I was thinking "homegirl's waitin' on him to ask her out for a cup of coffee and see what the future holds for them" 😂 But I'm not the best judge of behavior and psychology so.....
For sure, she wanted to take things further. Her body language said it all.
She was pleasant, cool, and very articulate and thoughtful person.
She strikes me as a very enjoyable to talk with about anything. I appreciate her.
Madison, Anthony as far as I know hasn't ever suggest in a talk that the person he's having a talk with may want to consider getting into street epistemology themselves, I hope you know what a compliment that was. Keep shining bright, and seeking the truth.
Vibrantly Brantly: hear hear!
(Though I think I've maybe seen him suggesting it to one or two others?? 30% confidence in that claim. :D)
I felt a little sad that such a bright light as Madison is indoctrinated in religion. So much work ahead of her just to get back to the common sense she was born with. Just like me.
I think the reason she didn't want to leave was that she was trying to find out what you believe, but she didn't want to ask directly. I think she has had some bad experiences, and prefers not to ask directly, letting the other person come to it if they want, which you clearly didn't. She seemed also dissatisfied with herself that she couldn't get you to do so; she's clearly not used to "losing" these kind of battles, which I thought was the ultimate reason she was reluctant to leave.
All in all, a very intelligent and well-spoken young lady; I have confidence in her search for truth, which is far from over.
David Voss very perceptive
I'm fairly certain her reasons not to wanting to leave is her wish to proselytize. Anthony saying he's searching for truth is like dripping a drop of blood into the shark tank; they go for the kill
Or... she wanted the D
Tom Jones Damascus?
She also had more "proofs" to get to.
Dear Madison, if you are reading this. There are two predominant definitions of the word faith: Trust (I have faith in my husband), or belief (I have faith in "something" to be true). The definitions of Faith that you quoted from the Bible describes a function that takes a hypothesis as input, and no matter what the content of the hypothesis is, the function always returns a true value. for example
faith(Islam) = true; // if you are a Muslim
faith(Christianity) = true; // if you are Christian
faith(Hinduism) = true; // if you are Hindu ... etc.
Seeing that this function returns a true value even if you give it a contradictory hypothesis, tells me that faith is an unreliable function to reach the truth.
Should we take science on faith? Your example of Kepler is very good. We are not all experts in physics and math. How do we know for sure that Kepler's Law is true?
Well, you proportion your belief on the strength of the evidence and on your experience in the subject. I am not going to say that I believe Kepler's laws 100%. I personally might hover between 80-90% to compensate for my lack of experience in the field. My confidence is that high because I see evidence and proof of that law. We put Satellites in orbit. We landed a probe on a comet, and I use my GPS as a direct result of his laws.
Believe in the supernatural does not rest on evidence, instead, it rests on faith. **Faith by definition is to believe in something to be true, despite the lack of evidence, and despite the presence of conflicting evidence.** Faith is not a solid foundation to stand ... or jump on.
I enjoyed this talk, thank you.
Dogmalogy Hands down one of the best talks Anthony had. Very smart and honest lady. She would be an amazing street epistemologist. Christian or not.
Yes, all of this! I sort of cringed at how she defined faith, and the analogy she used to describe faith. With concepts like mathematics, I don’t personally need to do the calculations themselves to know that an equation is correct. Rather, I have confidence that they are correct because it has been demonstrated by other people to be correct when using said equations to make predictions, produce new technology, and solve real life problems.
30:17
If Kepler's laws are founded on faith, were humans able to finally dismiss the Ptolemaic view of the universe also through faith?
Dear jeffersonianideal, I like your counter. Faith in science is an oxymoron. However before using this argument, definition of terms is a must. To be precise one needs to define the term Faith. Also provide a description of the scientific method and how it works.
To a potential interlocutor:
What happens when faith gets it wrong? Compare that to what occurs when science gets it wrong.
"If faith wasn't a component in that basket , will the basket get lighter?" . That word choice is perfection. 26:45
awesome talk, she seems like a great girl. she reminded me of Daniel when he didnt want to leave at the end of the conversation. i think she has it in her to ponder about her beliefs more honestly. Really hope she follows up with you anthony.
hughezy21 Yes! A lot of Daniel (see ‘Daniel and Beau’ video) in this one.
Anthony Magnabosco: I was thinking about Dan (as I now think of him) during this video!
Dan has a TH-cam presence now... does Madison? :) If and when she does, I want to subscribe!!
That was one of the best "spider on the ceiling" moments, and best uses of silence I've seen in a while.
"Insert relevant sentence here."
"What I think you're saying is this...?"
"So, what YOU think I'm saying is this...?"
This back and forth of further clarity for the same question is immensely important for this method, and I was glad to see it.
One of the best conversations ever. She was extremely smart and well-spoken, almost like she's a philosophy major.
I love the fact that it was such an engaging conversation that you can track the length of time by the bulletin board's shadow moving.
Madison reminds me a lot of myself a few years ago when I was a hardcore catholic. I’m about to embark on my street epistemology adventure myself and feel like she would be great at it! Some people have the knowledge aspect down, others have the questioning aspect down. Both are awesome.
I wouldn't be surprised if she had totally different beliefs now. Seems like she had questioned before and just took the guidance of believers she trusted, since as we all think at first they know more than we. However, for some it only takes a gentle push to cause a person to look elsewhere for answers especially when the answers you have don't really answer much.
This was a lovely talk!
Great bit was: "If faith is a part of the basket of proofs, is 97% confidence warranted?"
Thank you both for the conversation!
mongke And you’ll notice that she answered the question with a question, which is not an answer; a typical apologetic response. But she is definitely intelligent and seemed to be aware of her cognitive dissonance.
I love the way you worked her definition of faith back into the conversation in a useful way. Excellent interview!
"I don't want answers, I want salvation and truth."
1) If you come into it "wanting salvation", it seems you're setting yourself up for confirmation bias. That doesn't seem like an honest, unbiased approach to searching for truth.
2) How can you come close to finding truth, without answers?
Great points! That struck me at the time as well.
Cloud Of Time
In her defense, she’s been trained to think that “salivation” is the answer and the truth. Why seek “answers” if you believe you already have them. So, I think she’s sincere, but I love your questions. ❤️
I heard salvation has sometimes been translated as 'a sense of spaciousness and ease'.
Because she just spat out some generic Christian buzzwords, ironically "truth" is one of those words, along with a bunch of nebulous non words like salvation, spiritual, holy, etc..
it depends on what you mean by 'salvation' and 'truth', because the religious definitions of those two words vary in even the same church.
This was the most beautiful conversation I've seen in a while. Thanks Anthony!
Thank you Madison and Anthony! Watching this meeting of minds was very moving, humbling and encouraging.
She is probably the best one you have interviewed so far. In 2 years she will be contacting you saying she is out.🤷🏾♀️
PUT THE LOTION IN THE BASKET
jokes aside, nice talk. Madison seems like a lovely person
What a respectful and logical back and forth! Keep promoting discussions like this Anthony! This is great work!
That was so fascinating. Her stance was unique. I would love to see a follow up.
Perhaps you can even do web chats for follow ups.
A superb conversation with a wonderfully honest and open intelligent lady. When it comes to interaction this has to be one of your best. Thanks to both of you... To Madison... don’t ever to stop looking for truth.
Great conversation, love these, love your approach. Thank you Madison if you're reading these.
The simple act of looking, and the quality of the looking, changes everything. I wish Madison and Anthony the very best.
I like that you discarded the five minute timer for this conversation. It makes for a much more interesting result when you yourself gauge the mileage according to how the conversation develops.
I'm watching the videos to learn SE. Yesterday I had to learn that a collegue of mine, I have the highest meaning of her and like a lot, is "sceptical" of Covid an vaccination. Instead listening I answered forcefully and therefor blew the chance. I apologized today, we are on good terms, but she said she don't want to discuss this topic with me.
What besides that strikes me in this particular video is, how incredibly likable Madison is and how much so lovely people you talk to! Mostly people are nice, if they don't feel the need to defend themselfs, I guess.
Now being on near eight minutes in I have to correct: Madison isn't just nice. She awsome! What a young, bright woman!
Love the subtitles, it helps emphasise the points well
Awesome talk. Thanks Anthony.
This conversation was so friendly and curious. Most enjoyable yet.
Hey Anthony.
I was wondering, if a clarification of the scale might be in order in this kind of encounter.
When she says she is grapling with it, but says she wouldn't say she would be lower on the scale, might it be worth suggesting that the confidence is different to ones dedication to it.
Like your condifence in the belief can have fallen to a 9/10 but your dedication to it is unwavered.
It seems like many people are afraid to say anything but a 10/10, when they might not realize that their confidence in the belief, might differ to their dedication to the belief.
Don't know if that makes sense, but it does seem like many you talk to doesn't like to waver on the scale, and i think it might have something to do with them thinking dedication, instead of confidence.
Great job Anthony of using her phrase about being "grounded in a belief' and using it to pose a question about that interfering with critical thinking.
Madison has a promising career as either a preacher, politician, or illusionist.
Thank you Anthony, i've learned soo much by looking at you.
I thoroughly enjoyed the mechanics of the conversation. It's rewarding to listen to two people with emotional intelligence and listening skills. However, it didn't seem like the content made a lot of headway. But maybe it takes more time for two thoughtful people to make progress.
I agree.
Great discussion, both of you! Madison, I agree with Anthony that you would be great at SE. Also, please keep in touch with him. I hope to see you do a followup video together at some point. And if you start doing SE videos, please send me a link to your first one!
That was a fantastic conversation.
What an awesome conversation! Madison is great at emotional intelligence and well articulated. I hope she sticks to her own words and continues to ask questions and seek truth.
Mr Magnabosco @ 34m Madison asked "why are you out here" . You " I'm on a pursuit for truth"
my question to you is "Is that true?"
I think Madison is a Magnabosco minime for the other side. A natural born SEr ... That's why it seemed to her that it was allot of circling around... Kind of like 2 boxers respecting each other too much that none of them throws the first punch...
This conversation made me click the Big Red Button. Well done to both Anthony and Madison.
Madison if you are reading and still seeking truth, look into SE. Carefully considering why you believe something and making appropriate adjustments when justification is lacking or overflowing, is the surest way to inch ever closer to truth.
Madison is such a cool girl. I love her communication style and admire her willingness to have a deep and sincere conversation about her beliefs. I wish her well along her way.
That was a great talk. She was very active and attentive.
I have the vibe that in the beginning she thought you were going to try to preach an aspect of god to her. She seemed excited to challenge your beliefs with her own version. Her expectations had to make an adjustment when you told her you weren’t interested in the details of her religion but more where her beliefs came from. This one was very good. You see the roller coaster of her programming battling her authentic logic.
she's conflating the two common definitions of faith. a common thing a lot of religious people do, and why i *loathe* the word faith.
her friend shaun doesn't "have faith" in the scientists work, he trusts them. whether that trust is justified or not is another matter. as a lay person myself, i trust scientists when there is consensus among scientists in that field. i wouldn't necessarily trust a scientists claims about a field that they have no expertise in. consensus doesn't necessarily mean the scientists are correct, but it probably means that it is the best model of the field we currently have.
but just because trust is one of the common definitions and usages of the word "faith" doesn't mean that you claim "everyone" has faith, when comparing the trust someone has in the sciences, and the belief without evidence that someone has in religion ("faith is the evidence of things not seen" aka, not evidence)
i am using the dictionary definition, which i find is sufficient to demonstrate the contradictory nature of the two definitions:
1) complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2) strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
the second definition matches in my opinion, to the definition in the bible "evidence of things not seen" is very close to the second half of the second definition.
usually one does not have trust in something without evidence. (a lot of religious people use the analogy of "you have faith that your chair will hold you every time you sit down", but i disagree, i have evidence of all the chairs i have sat in and not had them collapse, i have the evidence of other similar chairs i have sat in. sure i have seen chairs collapse, but they were usually very visibly weak chairs.)
i really hope madison reads this and learns not to make this conflation in the future.
pharynx007 yes! I was thinking the same!
Well said!
thanks, i'm always concerned that i'm not being clear or specific enough when i post things online. or making any sense at all.
Yes I noticed that too. Trust is not the same as faith.
A simple question when confronted with the conflation of faith definitions: "I am confident that jumping off a 40 story building will likely kill me, but I've never personally tested it. Would you call that faith or is it something else?" It's something else, and that is the difference between belief in science and belief in religion.
I suspect they are finer details to it, but philological consistency hasn't always been maintained by churches, regarding word usage.
I'm in email conversation with a theist.I debate.I only want to find out why he believes what he does and why.Ive not heard of epistemology.To hear Anthony has given me a whole new way of talking to this guy.I love the way how it's non confrontational.Thanks Anthony
She’s very self realized and articulate. Love her enthusiasm and willingness to explore for personal growth.
What a great communicator! Always wanting to be sure she fully understands Anthony and that he understands her.
The comfort of old beliefs are strong. An intelligent article conversation. Thank you
I am a latecomer to the street epistemology & have only watched a few but this woman is the greatest of all.
An excellent talk! I really enjoyed it ...
Good talk, Anthony. I really liked this one. I disagree with Madison on a number of her beliefs, but she seems like a very charming person and I appreciate her willingness to engage with you. Her answers showed that she's reflective on some of these issues, and it seems like engaged with you in a way that challenged you to pull out more SE techniques than many of your talks have required you to. You might not have made much obvious headway in this exchange, but perhaps she has that "pebble in her shoe" now. I hope you get a chance to speak with her again.
Grate talk, I really like how independent her responses where.
This guy could probably spit some mad game. It’s amazing how comfortable people seem with him being a complete stranger.
i have been watching a bunch of your video's an i habe to say that the third person perspective is the best shot, it shows the manerisms
You're the best Anthony , Hopefully Madison goes and has a good think and starts to question ? .
This was such a pleasure to watch.
Madison is clearly intelligent, and I hope she continues her search for truth.
Thank you, Madison, for such a thoughtful talk. Keep seeking truth. 👊
I am in total awe of the ability for people in Texas to be able to walk outside without sunglasses
What a great talk! I was very impressed with her and she with you. SE could be her thing. I want it to be my thing! Lol
Madison gave a wonderful talk.
She's a great young person.
Strongly motivated in her personal truths and well spoken.
Good convo!
Yea I’ve noticed when ppl use “faith” as a reason for X, it’s like repeating “I believe X”. When immersed in religion they proudly say they have faith as if that’s a kind of justification.
I'm really appreciating the value of feeding a persons thoughts back to them. It so often gets a positive response. Society does not generally work this way. Conversations are often a struggle for dominance, leaving greater understanding difficult to achieve.
I love how open she is. She is so willing to investigate her thoughts which can be scary, so she’s super brave. It’s also clear that she’s so smart.
I would really love to see a follow up conversation with her. She's still one of my favourite talks you've ever had
As I understand what she's saying, I'd write her definition of faith as: "believing a statement to be true, waiving the need to test the underlying claims based on the percieved trustworthyness or your personal confidence in the trustworthyness of the source".
Over the course of the talk, Madison was brought into the light.
Absolutely love her energy.
What an amazing human being.
Madison, where are you goddammit! : )
After this only interview, I kind of miss you already.
Anyway, I hope you did found stable ground. *
* Hint: as always, the truth endures...
Take care 🍀
Great comment. Madison is pretty special. Maybe one day we’ll have a follow-up to record.
You, my friend, are a fucking genius. Keep fighting the good fight.
As a German linguist I'm always fascinated by these talks about faith. In German there isn't a separate word for faith and it really makes conversations like that way harder, because it's even worse in terms of potential equivocation. She used "faith" as "belief" at one point, which is really what is happening in the German language. Only the biblical definition varies, while it is a less frequently used definition too in a colloquial sense.
Faith and belief are the same word in German and for a pretty secular country, it's rather rare, that people use the word belief in terms of a faith meaning. More often than not, "belief" is almost synonymous to "opinion". And I see this happening in English, when "trust" get's conflated with the definition of faith, when "trust" should actually be considered to be part of the definition of opinion and belief, but not faith. You can't trust without evidence, that would be blind, naive trust or faith for that matter.
Anyway, I wish we had a word like faith, because most of the Christians I talk to, don't even realize the equivocation, which makes you seem condescending, if you explain to them, what kind of belief they have. English speakers seem to be more open to the idea, that they have to believe without evidence. Don't try to convey that to a German Christian, without being able to quote the bible.
The good part is though, no German Christian (at least I don't met any) says something like "everybody has faith in something" or "atheist also have faith". It just wouldn't make as much sense, because of course everybody believes in something. The but-why-believe-in-god-then-question is more obvious, if you don't have a word like faith.
Madison illustrates the problem with faith. It really is "pretending to know" things we really don't know. I used to FEEL certain about things WRT Christian ideas when I UNDERSTOOD writings/explanations about them better, but it was all still based on a faulty belief that the STORY was really some kind of divine revelation from the creator of the universe in the first place.
Once I realized that ancient Israel's STORY was no more TRUE than Ancient China's stories or ancient Egypt's stories or ancient Greece's stories, my absurdly high confidence melted away.
that was fascinating, really loved it
🙏
I would absolutely follow a podcast with her doing this method
Good conversation.
Madison was very nice.
Best conversation as of yet, but still dislike the constant "does that make sense" after everything she said. Thank you for another good one.
When Madison says, "does that make sense?", it's best to not respond by saying "yes". It's better to say, "I follow your reasoning." Saying yes implies that you agree with her.
Absolutely awesome conversation. I would like to have a conversation like this one day.
Madison. What a beautiful soul you are. Keep smiling and we’ll done on answering some curly questions.
Man... what a beautiful discussion. If only all theists were like this
Absolutely loved the reference from Madison about Paul's Damascus Road experience. She was listening to herself tell the story as part of her foundation for belief.
D Evan Taylor Hello there. Would you mind expanding on this a bit? I have been interested in this idea of “storytelling” as it pertains to belief examination lately and would like to better understand where you were going with this. Thanks.
D Evan Taylor yes.. I also want to understand what you mean by that.
Yes, of course. For me, when engaging with believers, on some occasions they solidify their belief in hearing themselves cite familiar Bible stories. The effect is at this point, they are not trying to convince you, but rather they are trying to convince themselves they are correct. By questioning (politely) you have placed a pebble in their shoe that they may be wrong.
An example I could give would be asking someone why they believed Spider Man was true? During their explanation, they would elude to how when Peter Parker was bitten by the radioactive spider, it gave him his super powers. Of course the story is nonsense, yet those who adopted their belief was by those whom they respected and repeated the story over & over again, similar to Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.
At least this has been my experience as when I was a believer, I also would cite familiar scripture, passages or stories.
D Evan Taylor Thanks for the explanation.
D Evan Taylor Thank you.
Enjoyed her positive attitude.
She definitely likes talking.
Good convo.
I was just wondering if you should start carrying around a sheet of paper with some optical illusion(s) printed on it. So many people trust waaaay too much in their own senses even when other people can't confirm their 'proofs'. F.e. there's a photograph called "The dress". Some people claim that it has golden color, some say that it has blue in it. It's not like gold and blue are even close to one another. So how do we figure out which one is it? "The dress" example could have been brought up after her answer (19:45). It would be interesting to see how she would react to the fallibility of our senses. All it takes is a sheet of paper and a cleverly drawn picture and our brain can't figure it out. That (and the list of cognitive biases en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases ) is why I could never trust in my personal experience in such a huge claim.
How did you make that link that takes us straight to 19:45?
Holy shit that must be a new thing! I never seen that before. Never mind. Haha
You speak of the legendary dress?! It's been years since that hard-fought twitter war
Probably.. I have never had a twitter account, but I remember the 'war'. ^^ It was also in a BBC documentary 'Colour - The Spectrum Of Science' if I remember correctly...
What I delightful young lady she is. She is smart and honest. I will watch this at least twice.
Definitely this is the kind of conversation I like.
GOD! You are so patient dude... I'm 25 minutes in and there are so many points where she is inconsistent and I just want to scream lol. She seems nice enough, and outwardly honest so far. She's not going down the disingenuous route so thats good news!
How you phrased it this time, about the percentage if what they believed was true, was very well tied in.
Madison is a trip. Very thoughtful conversation.
I agree, I think this woman is obviously a very skilled, savy and talented communicator. She could become a very efficient, effective and respectful practitioner, of street epistemology if she wanted to. I was intreged! watching and listening to this interaction.
This was such a wonderful and respectful dialogue, Madison is a pretty smart women.
She highlighted how y’all were going in circles, but I sincerely hope she honestly reevaluates her conversation, and maybe realize that she was in the drivers seat the whole time. So was it you guys, or was it her going in circles?
I really like this girl. 4 years passed, I wonder, where is she now in her beliefs.
One of the few videos I've watched recently that I thoroughly enjoy. She's got a great base going for her intellectually, but there's definitely a point that it doesn't cross over and she abandons the reason. She's much more honest than most.
Madison is a lovely person!! Anthony as well. I LOVE the talk about your motive. If I was asked what Anthony Magnabosco wants, Madison, I'd say that it is to make a better world. I hope that helps. He too is a lovely person! I don't know many nicer or more selfless. I hope I just saw the start of a great friendship.
If you're open, Madison, watch Julia Sweeney's one woman show (and book and audiobook), Letting Go of God. You remind me of her. She didn't want to give up on her Catholic upbringing, but had to admit that it just didn't add up. As painful as it was to her - honesty was just more important. At one point, if you do watch it, she "just tries on the 'there is no god' glasses". The show (and book) is an honest, sad, but ultimately joyful exploration of why and what she believed.
Madison seems poised for a big step - I LOVED her Biblical reference to Paul! She so clearly has done what so few people do - taken time to understand the Bible. I am a nonbeliever but any reasonable person will agree that there is A LOT to learn from the Bible. Anyway - I just loved the back & forth here.
Thanks to both of you for a magnificent - maybe the best yet - Anthony Magnabosco production. You should both be very gratified - you're both rare birds in this crazy world of ours!
Also, take a look at Anthony's detractors. Tim McGrew and Tom Gilson, for example. Watch them as they try to eviserate a good man who is doing good work. It's utterly reprehensible - so do take a look and compare your experience to the pantomime that McGrew and Gilson describe. Somebody in this equation is being disingenuous and I do not think it's Anthony Magnabosco. "Knock out game," - pfft - as I told Gilson myself, shame on him.
I really like Madison. She’s an articulate, thoughtful, intelligent and kind hearted honest, pleasant person. If only more people were like her. I was captivated by her responses. I hope she is able to confront her beliefs with an open mind and really put them to the test. I think if she does she’ll find some truth. And you’re right, she’s a great communicator. 🍻❤️
Is there anything that one could not come to believe by using faith?
If one can come to believe anything by faith. Is faith a path to truth?
Thanks to great minds before me.