Street Epistemology: Valentina | "I'm Not Using a Method!"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 27 November 2018
Released: 6 December 2018
Summary: After performing a thought experiment, Valentina and I explore her reasons for believing that there is a higher power, her connection to this God, and if she has a way to tell if her reasons are worthy of 100 percent confidence.
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Skip ahead to a desired point in the talk (clickable timestamps can be found in the top pinned comment of this video):
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00:00 Hello
00:14 Explanation
03:32 Truth Test
06:32 Claim (What)
07:59 Aporia 1
11:37 Justification (Why)
18:17 Pushback 1
21:25 Aporia 2
22:10 Aporia 3
22:35 Ferrari Example
24:16 Aporia 4
25:42 Questions for Me
29:42 Belief Scale
31:06 Justification (Why)
32:35 Method (How) 1
33:39 Aporia 5
35:35 Aporia 6
36:25 Mirroring 1
37:05 Method (How) 2
37:43 Mirroring 2
40:36 Aporia 7
43:15 Pushback 2
45:10 Closing
48:27 Re-Cap
52:04 Easter Egg
--
Note: Add 35 seconds to these timestamps if listening to the podcast version of this talk.
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Thumbnail assistance provided by Ben Diesel.
Outro Music 'Don’t Look’ provided by Silent Partner, courtesy TH-cam Audio Library.
Watch full talk w/Shay (cardinals): • Street Epistemology: S...
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Recorded w/Go-Pro. Edited w/PowerDirector.
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#StreetEpistemology #Magnabosco #PersonalExperience #GodConnection #Methodology #Epistemolgy #TruthTest #FerrariExample #BeliefScale #AnthonyMagnabosco
Skip ahead to a desired point in the talk:
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Explanation: 00:14
Truth Test: 03:32
Claim (What): 06:32
Aporia: 07:59, 21:25, 22:10, 24:16, 33:39, 35:35, 40:36
Justification (Why): 11:37, 31:06
Pushback: 18:17, 43:15
Ferrari Example: 22:35
Questions for Me: 25:42
Belief Scale: 29:42
Method (How): 32:35, 37:05
Mirroring: 36:25, 37:43
Closing: 45:10
Re-Cap: 48:27
Easter Egg: 52:04
--
Note: Add 35 seconds to these timestamps if listening to the podcast version of this talk.
Ha ha, love that easter egg!
I appreciate the break down.
This is exactly what I needed
Nice. Having the option to skip motivated me to not skip.
Eric Mishima Now that is interesting.
21:56 "I wonder if I only feel that way specifically about God". BOOM. I love this one. She is great.
For me, that's the point the convo should have ended. She really started thinking, but eventually got back to being a bit more defensive. I think her next conversation with her sister will be heavily influenced by that moment.
Simon Andrews ... great point and well said Simon. Valentina went back to defense shortly after that.
I saw this comment the literal moment she spoke it - therefore god (kidding lol).
Totally agree. Totally curious about your name. ha
My husband is prone to noting that some people love to fall in love, they love being in love... not the other person. I think belief can be like that, I think some people like belief for the sake of belief alone.
Daniel Dennets: "Belief in Belief"
"they love being in love... not the other person"... mind blown! I wish I'd heard this much sooner.
I think you just explained every midlife crisis ever.
Totally. I have a friend who I feel is a bit addicted to the thrill of falling in love and the dopamine, etc. rush which accompanies the phenomenon. He is a wonderful person and I have never felt he was using the other person however, as they usually result in relationships which last in some cases several years. However, it seems that at a certain point a wall is hit and the process must begin again, resulting in the upset of breakup, etc. This may be far more natural (from an evolutionary and reproductive perspective) than one thinks, just as the "belief in belief" phenomenon may be the result of certain cognitive operations of the mind and the human mind's constant need for pattern seeking and answers...even wrong answers.
I can easily see that. My wife grew up in a very conservative religion, and since getting out of that, they've become a devout believer in an "other" force out there that controls all the things that we call random (ie why we get a feeling to do a particular action at a certain time). In discussing it with them, they used the phrase "I have to believe..." which made it feel like an addiction to supernatural. They saw through the BS of their original religion, but addressing the world as if there is no grand purpose was too scary for them, and they needed to explain away all the world religions as different ways of interpreting the same concept of this guiding force.
Hadn't seen this one before. I'm really loving Anthony in full jeans, hoodie, snow hat and FLIP FLOPS : D : D
Yeah i didn't think of that till you mentioned it. First time i have ever seen someone where a toque and sandals at the same time. I would like to speak with Anthony as to why he chose this to wear. Hot feet cold head?
Dude do you have a bone for antony
The "connection" seemed to be "off limits" to discussion. She refers to her belief as very personal, and so I get the impression that God is less of a "buddy" and more of a "true love" to her. One question I might have asked is, "Do you use this type of connection with anything else in your life?" or "Are there other decisions about reality that you have 100% certainty without any evidence?" Good talk.
yep it could've explored more, i'd like to see if there was a follow up, she didn't seem to have had many opportunities to explore the subject.
I disagree. Her "god" seemed so ill-defined that I would lean more towards emotional support rather than a "true love". It would fit that she may be hesitant to talk about the personal experiences which prop up her belief if they have to do with personal issues such as emotional turmoil, etc. But I'm not in her head, so just my opinion based on observing the video content.
When he's asking about the candy, and questioning his "strong feeling" this is exactly what he is asking. He's just asking it with examples so that she can work it out herself.
It's kind of the whole thing here, right? Exploring her methods and ideas, in order to explore methods and ideas in general.
This was a great conversation. The part that stuck with me was her comment about harm. I can’t remember the time stamp unfortunately but I hear that sort of sentiment all of the time. It’s extremely frustrating to me.
_”My beliefs don’t cause harm so I should be allowed to believe whatever I want.”_
There are so many flaws with this.
1) *The sentiment supposes that their belief is above criticism.* It suggests that criticism or investigation of the belief is rude or may be similar to a forceful banning of the belief. It isn’t. People can believe whatever they want but others are free to be critical of those beliefs, as well.
2) *The sentiment supposes that the belief does no harm.* Sure, compared to a 9/11 hijacker it may not do anything close to harm but I would hardly call that a logical comparison. Just because people aren’t directly dying that doesn’t mean harm isn’t occurring. Bad beliefs oftentimes influence bad actions. How does she know that her beliefs aren’t causing harm? If I believe that vaccines cause autism and vote for political candidates that allow me to not vaccinate my kids, have I done harm to public health?
3) *The sentiment implies that the believer doesn’t care about the truth of the claim.* Just because a belief could do no harm is that why we should believe things? Is that a good metric to decipher truth? Could it do harm that we’re just not aware of at the time?
4) So many more...
This quote from, The Ethics Of Belief by W K Clifford
To sum up: it is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence. To believe with out sufficient evidence is to sin against mankind.
…”But,” says one, “I am a busy man; I have no time for the long course of study which would be necessary to make me in any degree a competent judge of certain questions, or even able to understand the nature of the arguments.”
Then he should have no time to believe.
@@joed1950 Why is believing without evidence a sin against mankind?
@Jamie G because unquestioned belief in both religion and political authority has been an underlying theme in most of the great tragedies of history.
If I try to convince you that its a bad idea to drink bleach, that isn't the same as me taking away all the bleach in your house and stopping you from ever getting near bleach again. I hate that characterization. We aren't discussing liberty.
@@howlong1248 Sure, and I'm an atheist myself, but I still feel the description is hyperbolic. A lot of people have fallacious beliefs and that is detrimental, however I would say the majority of those beliefs do not warrant the extreme label of "sin against mankind". Just because some properties are shared does not mean those properties are casual; Hitler had a dog but we don't crucify dog owners. Rather, I'd guess the root of many of these tragedies is instead authoritarianism, which is merely a subset of belief without evidence (in this case, belief in a leader or dogma).
It's very hard to seek truth when you think you've already found it.
Great job, Anthony. Thank you!
Yes, Anthony is a serial killer of bad ideas ⚔
@BaBaBee lol! Exactly!
"I'm Not Using a Method!" = I don't want to identify how/why I believe somethings because if I did I might lose my belief and that is too scary to face. I am so emotionally attached to my belief that I can't even contemplate not believing. Or course, she can do it, i.e., she has the ability to use introspection, but she chooses not to risk losing her belief because she doesn't value truth over emotion.
Of course she had a bit of that, bit she might as well have had some mystical experience which she just cannot make sense of. I don't know if you are, but most of people here seem to be stuck in materialistic paradigm and straight assuming that she's wrong.
@@FaanaMusic Obviously, she had an "experience" and labeling it "mystical" doesn't preclude the possibility of ever analyzing it. It is her choice. It is always our choice to put truth first, or to live in a fantasy. The fantasy is not challenging, not demanding, easy and comfortable. It's also not real. And it's not psychologically healthy. Living a lie will catch up to you and require more lies, lies on lies, until you lose touch with reality. Drugs are a short cut to this la-la land. In that place, confrontation can be permanently avoided, but so is life. Reality is not a place we are "stuck". It is, whether or not we choose to acknowledge and understand it.
@@1voluntaryist I agree with you and too me he seemed to be open to exploring her insufficiencies in understanding, but it's tricky. Truth is much bigger and more complicated that it may seem. Why would truth have to be rational and binary? We cannot prove that, can we? We just assume it. We understand things through concepts, language and systems like logics and mathematics and that's because our mind works that way and therefore we define thing in terms of there opposites. Yes/No, God can either exist or not, but the problem is that reality doesn't have an opposite.
@@FaanaMusic Reality exists, even if we haven't conceived it in its entirely because we have limited time. But it is possible to approach the infinite, abstractly. That is our unique human ability. But I would like to meet and discuss philosophy with another species (ET?) who could do so.
@@1voluntaryist I'd love that too do sure!
Anthony really spends a lot of time with those candies they get him through allot of conversations it isn't hard to see why he has a connection with a box of candies
@Traveler Finder lol...that was funny :D
Whats ultimately funny is that at least that box of candies is demonstrable
This is off topic, but I hope you know the difference between "allot" and 'a lot'.
If someone likes candy "a lot" it means they like candy a 'large amount'.
The word "allot" is a verb meaning to share portions of, or to dole out, as in an "allotment".
@@manifold1476 At the time of making this post, I did not know this info it has been a year and Grammarly has corrected me on this point several times. Thank you for your correction. Please don't cancel me.
This has been one of the most frustrating ones yet. Of course she's using a method, and to claim otherwise seems dishonest.
It's like like asking, "how did you reach your conclusion?", and getting, "I didn't" in return.
What the??!
She is in tapdance mode very early in the conversation. And this is what happens when someone asks a person a question that they have avoided asking themselves for their whole life.
Seems she did the very best she could. We don't want to judge too quickly--do we?
I think these frustrating parts of the dialogue are due to fatigue. This person is being challenged with a lot of intense questions on fundamental beliefs all at once. That's pretty tiring and overwhelming.
Jeff Ciaccio Yes so frustrating!
Not sure in this instance she is dishonest, rather confused
In the end of the talk I feel like she’s reaching for an answer like, “this belief is comfortably untestable.”
She said there is more layer to the god claim vs the candy. The layer is emotional attachment
Boom!
It's amazing how some people struggle so much with the 'jar of candies' analogy. Or they pretend to struggle with it to avoid admitting that they're being irrational.
What a beautiful conversation Anthony! I admire how the gentleness of your approach enables Valentina to honestly reflect on her reasoning. It's so easy to become confrontational or even derogatory and thus shutting down any fruitful exchange. I feel this happens all the time even when speaking to close friends and family, and often we don't realize it, leaving us frustrated because the conversation went nowhere.
You felt she was being honest with herself?
...I actually commented after having only watched the first half of the clip Jeff. Later on she got defensive and it seems her faith's mechanism of self-protection intervened which was a bit frustrating so see. Then Anthony and her started going in circles and.
Wow! This is so interesting. Exploring such entrenched beliefs has never been so peaceful and enlightening.
You will be remembered as one of the most beautiful of our species regardless how long we & our decedents survive. I'm also pretty sure you're not a serial killer.
👏😄
Robert Deneka
Could you rate your confidence in your belief that Anthony is not a serial killer on a scale from 0 to 100?
@@FirstnameLastname-bn4gv 99
@teflontelefon How can you tell if someone's a serial killer? Do you have to wait until they've killed someone (or you), or is there some other way?
@@cjdennis149 Some people get what they call “the creeps” or an odd feeling from psychopaths, or so I’ve heard. It might be a kind of instinctual survival response of sensing a “predator” nearby, or more so related to how the vast majority of human communication is body language and other subtle hints we naturally pick up on. I can see what they’re talking about. I mean, I’m no expert, but I’ve watched Dexter and there are signs (like a hobby of interviewing random strangers as a means of scouting a victim), although I’m convinced that Anthony isn’t a serial killer. He seems too busy for that.
Vague higher power claims are hard to discuss because they’re undefined personal definitions or fuzzy feelings inside one persons mind. Her god experience is unique to the world as her own self identity. She has no religion or rule book she’s following.
I think you nailed it with your recap comment about her connection to her god belief is a connection to her self identity.
This interview was awesome. You did a great job asking really hard question. She opened up, and I love that she’s curious and asks question, and she really wanted to explore her position.
I cannot get over how patient u are... truly amazing...
I think the idea of severing the connection with God could have made her defensive. That could have brought on the "backfire effect". I was actually surprised when Anthony said that.
This was awesome to listen to in the discord! Awesome video
This shows again how important these pauses are. Great job, Anthony!
That again is one of those days: all my duties are done, I'm sitting here watching your discussions and find particularly this highly entertaining in the best meaning of that word. How rare are those kind of talks in every day life!
That was a dope conversation. Man, I am addicted to this channel.
Really great episode so far. Some of my favorite conversations, both in my own life and those on these kinds of channels, start out honestly when people are willing to agree to (arguably) simple propositions like the number of candies (un-sponsored XD), and then given a chance to use that same logic on a belief that cannot stand when given even footing.
Anthony, you do such a good job of cultivating an environment of self-examination, and your patience has inspired me in my own life inside and outside of these kinds of talks.
P.S. - I saw you on the Atheist Experience. Super neat to see that kind of collaboration. I hope I get to see more of your stuff soon!
I love watching these videos and trying to think of a great next question for Anthony to ask, in this video he had several questions that were pinpointed and direct, yet gentle. The art of SE requires restraint, kindness and patience. Great work!
these are such wonderful conversations. i am intrigued by the way that you see these peoples moment where they challenge their beliefs. it is so great that you get strangers to be so honest so quickly.
I honestly love your methodology of speaking with people. Especially given your stance, you are very cordial, you don't ever come across as rude, and for that I truly thank you. Makes your videos very pleasing to watch.
Based on what she said about struggling with her belief in "god" and defining that term, her body language tells a story all on its own.
I noticed that towards the end she was REALLY stuck on the idea that you were actively trying to pidgeon hole her into a position rather than get her to reflect on her reasons for the belief that she has.
I suspect that during the conversation, as she was reflecting, she likened your questions to that of her sister. Perhaps her sister presses her more on it, thus leading to increased defensiveness.
I think your right. Good psychology.
I think she already doesn't believe, but she's headed the things friends and family day about her sister. Which is why she doesn't know anything about anything but she's 100% confident and knows that she knows that she knows
She's very personable and polite, but also one of the most defensive folks I've ever seen in the channel. She made multiple allusions to being led by the nose, but she could have picked any topic.
12:50 I love the Korean ladies walking by excitedly talking about noodles! Japchae? Japchae!!
Jamie G Who doesn’t love those carbs?!
Damn. This is a great session!
At around 20 minutes, I’m not sure the question: “What’s the harm in believing something that might not be true” is the same as “Are you saying that I’m ok with believing things that aren’t true because they don’t really affect anyone but myself”
And when she responded with “I wonder if I only believe that way specifically about God.” (woah!) Seems like you could have paused and let her think about that some more. Although you did pause after the next question. That was a very good moment in the talk.
That seemed like a good place to stop. Little hard going after that.
It is uplifting to see two strangers come together and talk about this in such a positive way.
I wish all interviews were this long! A very enjoyable talk to watch! I liked her easy going manner but she wasn’t timid either. A great discussion. Lots of wheels turning on this one.
This was a really frustrating conversation. She was at times open then at other times she was rather slippery with her answers. Great job Anthony.
drshellking@gmail.com Please try to keep in mind that these questions are not usually things people think about a lot, so she probably just needs time to process them on her own. Thanks for watching.
I am fairly new to Anthony's channel, but I can't think of any way he could have any better, more revealing questions. They were spot on and he was so fair asking them and isn't that what street epistemology is all about? Bravo Anthony.
I love this girl! She has thought about this a lot. She didn't make this decision lightly. Just like I didn't make my decision lightly to stop believing.
Good chat Anthony, I was looking for the outsider test in the middle then circled around to the true for you argument. Really liked your interlocutor and her honesty. She seemed like a very nice person.
I'm so sorry I can't give you more than 1 thumbs-up on this video. Your questions were spot-on so many times there.
Lol! Loved this one. The laugh that initially wore on me I by the end quite enjoyed. Perfect use of truth test to move to claim, wow. Let me think about this, yes! The rejection of the mint to keep your odd or even numbers consistent was so good. I am glad you brought up the kids on the rocks again, wouldn't want to stray too far from that analogy, what harm could that ever be :P ?
This channel is a God send.
Is miss binging these. Thank you for posting more
One way to Explore the Connection is To ask her to describe the difference between Personal Experience and The Connection to the god. Its almost like she is forming a distinction which allows her to in one hand to Say if i lost my personal experiences I would still believe bc I have this Connection that can't be severed. In what way is a strong Feeling of a Connection different than Personal Experience?..
love the beanie and flip flops Anthony!
This has to be my favorite video apart from the rest! She is very open minded. @26:00 I like how you admit what your preference was because how people act as a result of their beliefs.
The irony about using feeling vs understanding they can derive facts, is that feelings are the most significant factor in subjective thought processing. They are the most real thing people have.
I really enjoyed the thought experiment Anthony....I see it got her thinking about how her god belief correlated to the candy and the validity of the method used to come to said conclusion. I suggest that you use this every time as a baseline metaphor to get things going at least for interlocutors can't find a topic. It seems as though she was really trying to sort through her thoughts...you may hear from her again. Great job Anthony!!! I'm always so pleased with the work you do and methods you use to get through to the interlocutors. TBH, Everytime I have a conversation like this, I always end up going too far....it's so hard not to when you already understand the arguments.
I was hoping you go deeper into what her god is, or more specifically, how she knows what she feels is god. Is it something within or without? Is it a voice, what does it sound like? What is this connection, how does it work?
She claims god is just a word, which makes it useless in this discussion since we have no idea what it is. The belief in "there must be something there" goes all the way from "imaginary friend" to "creator", "Mother Nature" to "Cosmic glue".
it definitely seems like she got pretty defensive at one point, probably due to some sort of realization that her conclusion surrounding god was different/inconsistent with every other facet of her understanding.
A person sometimes needs the safety of taking some time alone to think on things. There's discomfort going through all this while people watch. Anthony is standing right there waiting, so there's an implied time pressure.
This was a fantastic conversation. Valentina was so engaged.
Great talk!. When you asked if she 'wanted' it to be real, she said no. But I wonder if you asked her to describe the ' connection'. ex : Is the connection comforting? Do you feel safer or reassured? Do you get affirmation that someone agrees with your outlook on life? Do you enjoy the company?
She is a deep and willing thinker. Smart girl.
Love your breakdown. One of your best talks by far!!!
What a lovely and charming conversation.
i think Anthony's soothing voice is a big part of it.
Wow she knows she is guessing. She knows she can’t prove god. She is so honest and up front. So she won’t pick odd or even , so why choose is god is real? She is still stuck in her indoctrination but that’s changing. She falls back on personal experience.
Hi Peter Bartley,
I'm not sure if I heard correctly, but I didn't think that she was brought up with a religious belief in God.
@@FuzTheCat It's pretty ingrained in US society. Even if she wasn't brought up that way, I'm sure she's had experiences of going to church with friends as a kid or celebrating xmas, or having friends who try to tell her how to believe. It's hard to stay absolutely away from all Christian influence here.
I also find it a bit of reach to say she is falling back on her indoctrination. It is much more interesting to consider other factors such as psychological factors.
it sounds like she wasn't indoctrinated, she sounds to me like she has a good approach to belief "it's mine, no else's, i keep it to myself, it helps me, but it's mine alone" i think of my atheism that way, i don't want to part of a group or a gang, i arrived at atheism as a child, no one persuaded me, it's nothing to do with anyone BUT me, unless i need to defend myself.
@@HarryNicNicholas Exactly the same for me, sir. All of it. I was in fact heavily indoctrinated into Christianity from birth on up but even as a child never believed a word of it no matter how hard I tried. And that's not anything I care to discuss with anyone unless provoked. I often say I'm always atheist but only become anti-theist when pushed. Here in the US however, atheists get pushed a lot and are often not given the option of quietly being left alone. In many communities, particularly in the south, being atheist means you are the lowest of the low. They have respect for murderers and child rapists in prison who announce they would do it again if given half a chance, as long as they claim to be saved by Jesus and put on all the airs that Christians do in this country. But someone who does right by others and contributes time energy and money to helping people who cannot help themselves is worthless pile of excrement worthy of all scorn and contempt if they say they have no use for religion and think the Bible is folklore. People are harassed out of their jobs and those in the wrong get away with it because the authorities agree with them.
I thought this was a great conversation. Idk if i would have went the same way in a couple instances, but you definitely know how to bring people out of there “safe zone” and there’s no way i could’ve navigated the conversation so incredibly well. All those seeds planted, hopefully some take root.
Really enjoy it when you talk about your talks at the end
I loved this conversation Anthony. I am fascinated with personal experiences that convince people it was supernatural in nature. I have never heard this rationally justified and most interlocutors deflect quickly when it is examined. Would love to hear your approach. Love from Australia.
Teaspoon Shallow I think this video covered that. If you recall, we had a brief discussion about how her friends might respond to similar situations but not conclude that it was a God.
@@magnabosco210 I re-watched the video and it was not explored to the depth that satisfies my curiosity. It may seem to confrontational and may be why my friends shy away from the topic. I have concluded it is an argument from ignorance but I would love to approach the topic without being that abrasive. Keep up the outstanding work.
I have yet to find any personal experiences that are convincing to show that a higher power exists..many say it was personal experiences..but most of them can't explain it clearly..
The "personal experience" thing is SO common and it's very often based on some preexisting beliefs, even if they're incredibly faint prior to the experience. I like to observe my own personal experiences and reflect on how I may have interpreted them differently if I was inclined to believe supernatural things. For example there have been many times where I did something a bit out of the ordinary (like I went into an isle I usually don't go to in a store I don't usually visit or whatever) for no particular reason and a positive outcome occurred by chance, and it makes me think about how if I had certain beliefs I might have ascribed that to God or some other force guiding me towards that path. A lot of it seems to just be confirmation bias and ascribing meaning to coincidences.
She was so open and honest.. keen to answer according to her thoughts, it wasn’t scripted. Good for her 😀
Even three years later, I enjoyed listening to this conversation. IMO, this is evergreen material.
Thanks for that. I agree, it’s pretty timeless.
I’m hearing some sibling rivalry going on. I don’t want my sister to win this argument so I’m going to stick to my guns.
I enjoyed this talk. And I think Anthony did the best he could under the circumstances. I'd love to see the follow up on this a couple weeks or so from now after she has time to digest the talk.
Easy there, Anthony. At around 18.40 to 19.00 I saw something I do much to much: "I see what you mean (and now I wanna talk again!)" You're brilliant in taking the step back again.
Loved the whole video Anthony, but the last few seconds were GOLD!!! 😂🤣😂🤣
She is so sincere I love it.
Anthony, this was an awesome intro. Leading with the candy - It was inspired. If you would have tried to equate it as a secondary concept it would have been lost. She was thinking and correcting her position right out of the gate.
I really enjoy the assessments at the end of some of these talks ...
I loved this talk and is one of my favorites. I'm really surprised she gave the hundred percent confidence because it seemed she was being very honest in the conversation. And I think she was. She seems like a good person and uses logic in her life except with the god belief. Great conversation!
Just realized that you have your own street epistemology dry erase marker. Love the branding!! I now own an SE hat myself.
Well, to be clear, it’s a regular old marker with a small SE sticker on it but hey, I like where you’re going with this.
My god, (no pun intended) I love this approach and I'm am SO TEMPTED to try myself. I love these discussions.
I love the idea that since you can't count the number of pieces how can you be certain of your position? Excellent epistemological tool.
She's not evaluating your questions, she's evaluating your motives and treating this as a game of chess. She's not answering honestly, and making counter moves to avoid the logical conclusion in an effort to not look foolish or "win" the debate.
Deicide I didn’t get that impression at all.
not so much in the beginning but towards the end she stopped answering your questions and started asking things like, why this topic? where are you going with this? Your questions are leading me to X. Once she saw the "finish line", see didn't like what she saw and stopped giving honest answers.
I agree with you decide. Seems to be deflecting.
there was a bit of that ...but she was more honest than a lot of people he is talking to
Yes, compared to other people, I think she seems more open and willing to explore her belief. It’s sad she still think she is a 100% sure god exists though.
Excellent talk.
Really well structured talk this time.
Great idea starting off with the counting of things!
That was really awesome. I wonder if she will think about everything that went on in that conversation
Valentina seems like a great person and I love her laughter.
That was an awesome talk.
"I'm not using a method." (?!) at 42:40 -- it almost seems like she rejected the idea of a method simply because you said it. I think this is the point where we can see that maybe the talk has gone on too long -- she's getting sick of the questioning and is becoming defensive. But it was a great talk!
Also: It's cold enough that both of you are wearing hats, but you've got bare feet!
This talk really shows the power of the feeling of agency we all have, and opened my eye's to how easy it is for religion to insert a god into these notions. This person is 100% sure that certain events in her life are caused by a conscious external agency that she believes is this god and this becomes internalized. It is real to her because it's part of her, it IS her. All religion needs to do is give it a name, now this god is a external reality and religion can dictate what it says.
After all the conversation she still is 100% confident in her posittion.
To her it means eternal torture to admit doubt. Not to mention any of her social circle, including family who would be appalled by having a nonbeliever in their midst.
Really smooth tying the sister's position to the tic-tacs at 07:46
The honest contemplating at 24:15 was surprising and I may be reading too much into it, but her questions afterwards at 25:41 seemed to mimic the same epistemological style you were using.
It’s incredible to hear this woman speak about her unique position. I’m at 35:00 and there’ve been points where you think she’s gonna realise that it’s inconsistent to have 100% confidence in a god, absent the evidence (as she admitted that’s not why she believes anymore) and accept that having 100% confidence in there being an even number of tic tacs is unjustified. I don’t want to assume what she’s thinking, but it’s almost like she knows that she’s being irrational and inconsistent, so she’s trying to reword and phrase things to keep believing in this god. She’s not trying to be dishonest at all, if anything I think she’s trying to be honest but in the process she’s digging herself into a grave that needn’t be there.
Excellent video!
(Edit: added in ‘is unjustified’ cos it made no sense without it)
Dave Lewis That’s an interesting take on things. It’s one of the reasons why I added on-screen text at the point when she said “I’m a reasonable person”, because it almost seemed like she was saying that to herself in spite of her tenuous position. Thanks.
Anthony Magnabosco yeah yeah my thoughts exactly Anthony!
I love her questions and honesty.
I enjoyed this conversation. Despite her determination to hold on to her faith, she was far more reasonable than many believers, in that she did acknowledge much of the logic here. I think that she knows she believes because she WANTS to believe. She also acknowledged that faith can and does oftentimes affect how people vote, what they want taught in schools, etc. I have a feeling she will be thinking about and evaluating her experiences, but is not about to openly (or possibly inwardly) entertain the thought of letting go until she has had time to process. And that is fair enough, smart even. I have more respect for that that I would someone who's entire system of faith could be knocked down in one twenty or 40 minute conversation!
She is really contributing with her sister and her disagreeing. Her sister is obviously well informed on the issues.
Absolutely brilliant
I really enjoy those conversations with people who believe in a God, but a God not tied to any religions. Valentina was great. I hope to hear again about her in the future.
Anthony, yes it sounds like her connection really is the key to understanding her belief in a god. Very interesting talk, because normally it is the indoctrinated ones that claim to have such a strong connection. But she was not indoctrinated. So, something about her connection has created such a strong belief that it is "impossible" (her words) to break. Wow, really deep stuff. Great talk!
A good question that I don't recall being asked is "Let's image for a moment that your belief isn't true, would there be a way for you to find out it isn't true?". You could also use contrasting. Instead of asking her directly, tell her you met lots of Muslims that are equally sure (if not more) of the correctness of their belief, the questions would then be "Would there be a way for them to find out their belief isn't true?" When questioned, we all have this innate defense mechanism that lead us to rationalize our beliefs instead of inspecting them. People will find it much easier inspecting the beliefs of others. But these realizations will translate back to their own beliefs. Just a thought...
Witnessing a worldview being deconstructed in realtime. valentina has difficulty to focus on the questions once she realizes her 100% confidence about a god is unwarranted.
I like her , she seems sincere , not being comepletely honest with herself but willing to question or unpack her beliefs . Its uncomfortable to realize your process is not grounded in reason but feelings. And from an unbiased third party perspective even looks a little childish and silly. Its like a Linus comfort blanket , wishful thinking that beseeching an invisible genie will get you that husband or the Packers will win or Uncle Bernie will get healed.
And Anthony absolutely fantastic interaction , you're thoughtful and gentle , humerous and engaging on top of being a superb interviewer . Great job!
Sounds like she doesn't need a reason to justify her beliefs. Belief in God makes her feel all warm and fuzzy inside and she won't give that up no matter what.
This popped into my mind when you were both discussing methodological versus abstract strategies to a conclusion: I love doing problem-solving puzzle computer games. I often find I use intuition, guesswork and just playing around to solve a puzzle. My method can still work. However, a logical, methodical process that will complete the puzzle would probably be more reliable and quicker. But I think it might be less fun.
I find that my work as a designer includes both objective and subjective decision-making. So, I can understand what a lot of these people mean when they talk about this gut instinct or a feeling in their heart or, as in this case, a “connection”. I get a “connection” to my drawing just from the process of drawing. Doesn’t mean the drawing will be good to other people.
I'm only 11 minutes in, and I LOVE this conversation
What stood out to me was her talking about "who's to say what's true?" (paraphrasing, can't recall the exact wording) which I interpret in this context as her saying we ultimately cannot know the answer with God, unlike the candies that we can just go ahead and count. This bothers me because regardless of whether or not we can know it, it IS in fact either true or false, right? There IS an answer, even if we will never know it. It sounded to me like she was justifying her unfounded belief by referring to it being unconfirmable.
The first half went so great, in the second half I think the "double down" effect took place.
You missed the chance to tell her you do this because you care about what’s true. Maybe a flipping it to another faith would help her reflect on it better.
Jacob M. Yeah, maybe.
49:30 actually she was the one who brought up (5:48) when she said "well, if we are talking about god, I do feel that way", when talking about having personal truths
I just love her for her honesty.
Love to see this guy on a date