I was DEAD WRONG about air quality
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video, I talk about air quality. Thanks to DREO for sponsoring this important discussion! Go to bit.ly/46rTY0D and get a fantastic deal when you buy a DREO air-circulation unit.
I love my 3D printers, but in the back of my mind, I know that they are quietly emitting all kinds of nasty pollutants and cancer-causing compounds. And even if you only print PLA, the same is true of your 3D printer or printers.
In this video, we're going to see if and how we can drastically improve the air quality in my workspace and yours, with affordable consumer-grade products such as circulator fans, smart air purifiers, smart fans, and so on.
I know, I know... it's not a "sexy" topic. But it's an important one - and one that I've wanted to cover in a video for a while... ever since getting not one, but TWO sinus infections from laser cutting, 3D printing, sawing, and so on. So when DREO reached out and offered me some of their smart circulator fans... I jumped on the opportunity.
Throughout this video, I tried to test the different ways that circulator fans could impact the air quality in my 3d printing workspace. As you'll see in the video... the results were NOT what I expected. Nonetheless, I think there are some MAJOR, valuable takeaways for every 3d printing enthusiast, maker, or tinkerer... so I hope you enjoy the video!
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🎥 IN THIS VIDEO: 🎥
00:00 Introduction
00:33 Why You Should Care
06:16 The Test Process
07:30 Takeaway No. 1: ABS and ASA Printing Are (Likely) The LEAST of Your Worries
10:11 Takeaway No. 2: Replacing Polluted Air Is Absolutely CRUCIAL
12:30 Takeaway No. 3: Clearing Out Accumulated Nastiness Takes a LONG Time
15:14 Takeaway No. 4: The Air Outside May Not Be As Pure As You Think
17:14 Actionable Advice Going Forward
🔗 LINKS MENTIONED IN THE VIDEO: 🔗
👉 Lost In Tech's "Your 3D Printer Stinks." video: • Your 3D Printer Stinks.
👉 "Air flow: It's all about fan thrust" by Matthias random stuff: • Air flow: It's all abo...
👉 "Best fan placement to move air through the house" by Matthias random stuff: • Best fan placement to ...
👉 DREO smart fans + air purifiers: bit.ly/46rTY0D
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#3dprinting #airquality #3dprinter - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Thanks to DREO for sponsoring this important discussion! Go to bit.ly/46rTY0D and get a fantastic deal when you buy a DREO air-circulation unit.
Now I want to see what effect all this has on your prints, how it affects warping, etc, and how humidity is affected by all this. This is all especially important to anyone who wants to print with materials that are sensitive to these things such as PVA.
My suggestion is to not think of it as multiple passes through a filter (or even dead spaces), but rather you are dripping warm water into a cold bathtub. It is going to take quite a while for the filtered air (warm water) fills any portion of the room. Perhaps there are additional forces at play with the fan, meaning that it's possible the fan is pushing air that is around the fan (and not only the air that is going through the filtration). An example of this is a guy trying to blow up something, but he blows much more as he backs away from the nozzle. Perhaps this is how that fan cylinder might play into the filtration ecosystem.
What's the air quality sensor you're using? Have you found it works okay?
Support Apple not just google.
Yaye DREO!
As someone who does work as a researcher with 3D printers, I agree with the majority of your points but there are two things missing. An explanation of what air you think of as safe or problematic to reference back to and the best advice when it comes to working with macro particles.
The problems with polluted air that has a high concentration of macro particles really make an impact when you both have long exposure to this air *and* when you do not ventilate your own lungs. Going out to nature\ jogging a couple of times a week or even getting back home by foot makes a drastic difference and should have been the highest recommended tip of this great video
This entire test fundamentally ignores the fact that VOC quantity is far less of a concern than WHAT VOCs are in the air.
But that doesn't get views. These tests were about as legit as the cig industry's tests in the 50s. I just blocked this channel as the dude is a walking talking dunning Kruger effect.
Nah mate, didn't you hear him, you don't have to worry about ABS now. 🤣
He's not a scientist or any sort of expert, he's a salesman
@@anthonykgarland How do you block a channel? As far as I know that's not possible, but what do I know. Hope I'm wrong there are a lot of channels I'd like to block so I'd never see them again. Like PC tech rumor channels. "the 8900xtx will destroy nvidia, the 8900xtx is cancelled, then the 8900xtx will destroy nvidia in a later video again even if it was cancelled a few videos ago".
I use a 3rd party app for android and its an option.
I'm not an expert but what the hell is buying a bunch of tiny fans to move air around the room going to do for removing pollutants? First it should be obvious that physics dictates that bigger fans move more air. I seriously doubt those tiny Bento Boxes have any appreciable effect. Have you seen how large and heavy the carbon filters are in e.g. cannabis grow rooms? They need fans to draw air through it in order to work. Like imagine if a smoker doesn't blow air through a Smokebuddy carbon filter, but blows all the smoke into the room, and then wait for the air to magically circulate back into the filter. That's basically what you're doing in this video. Those enclosed 3D printers aren't airtight, and I'm pretty sure there's more pressure for the air to escape that box than to be pulled into a tiny filter that's not connected to anything.
Yeah, to put it nicely, this is obviously not a very brilliant approach.
As a professional whose works in advanced composite material shops in aviation I can tell you we use about a and that's just for cooling. Seriously all of this stuff should probably technically have downdraft tables and vent hoods from the word go.
Beyond that you should be wearing a full-face mask I don't know why you would think like oh and just take my mask off cuz it's so convenient but go ahead and do that all you want just know that it's in no way safe. The entire environment needs to be completely and continuously circulated and a couple fans here and there are going to do next to nothing aside from maybe get you a sponsor.
Seriously I kind of don't know why I watched this it's a bit of a joke.
Just look at the grow room fans.They have to exhaust to grow fast.
I purchased a forced air purifier designed for circulating a small house for my workspace, and that can barely keep up with my space. But he is definitely right that the printers are the least of your problems; for just FDM printing, a small fan and an open window keeps the quality high enough that my purifier rarely turns on.
Soldering and sanding are the big ones for me (I imagine laser work is even worse), and for that I have to run a downdraft table that vents directly outside, even then the purifier runs at full blast to keep AQ above 70%.
The resin printing airborne VOC is HIGHLY dependent on which resin I use; some barely kick out anything, and others quickly get AQ into the danger zone. I've noticed the flexible resins tend to be the worst, while the water washable ones tend to be the best. Here's me wishing I'd paid more attention in organic chemistry class.
It honestly just feels like a gimmick to sell the fans.
The Bento Boxes work really well. Tests have shown they eliminate VOCs nearly entirely (there was another TH-cam video on this that did a great job in a test situation). The Bento Box is designed for a closed box printer, not one that is open.
Enclosing your printers in a compact space, and having a direct vent to the outside, so that you only have to circulate air through the
I use Indoor Plant tents with fumigation holes for enclosures for my 3d printers. Then I can use exhaust fans and carbon filters and pump the air directly outside. I wear my mask with appropriate filters whenever the enclosures are open. Videos like this are important to bring this to more 3d printers attentions as this is not something people are being told about when they are buying these printers most of the time. Especially if they just buy from amazon.
Can I just ask why you still use carbon filters if you're immiedietly pumping the air outside anyways? Is it just to avoid residual stuff once you open the enclosure?
@@johannd1100 First floor window and homes in close proximity, using the filter to keep the smell down and yes, it also helps keep the residual smell in the enclosure down.
Ahah awesome I have the same thing sitting ins storage I was wondering if it’s air tight enough for this 🤙🏼 Thank you
Something important to note that I think Lost In Tech mentioned was that PM1.0 was likely even more present than larger particulate and is also likely to be more dangerous.
As a scale modeler who is starting to get into 3d printing - I deal with a lot of fumes from modelling glues and paints, etc., and another thing that can help with things like soldering and painting and gluing is an airbrush booth that has a fan and an exhaust hose to a window. If you've not used one before it's great for the hands-on detailed work with VOCs and I highly recommend trying one of those as well. I use it not just for airbrushing, but for gluing and sanding and everything else. Hope it helps!
Even those of us that live in the country can't just open a window all year round. I live in midland Sweden and winter is coming. Not going to open a window or door when it's -15º outside.
There is a way to deal with it, but knowing you guys in EU with your eco and efficiency craze, you probably not gonna like it...
You see, one can use something like a radiant kerosene burner to heat your working room and it requires by design that you'll have that window open to avoid things like carbon monoxide poisoning etc. There are other options like diesel heater (that are designed for autonomous van-house kind of thing... you know those american houses on the wheels stuff) which are kind of overpowered (4-8kW) for a small room and that's exactly how you keep it warm. You just use that and open the window (not that they dump exhaust in your room, they have a pipe to put it outside through a hole in a wall).
That sure is wasting some energy but believe me, active filtering and then replacing filters, checking filters condition, buying new ones, using automatic purifiers like in this video and a bunch of other things are much more expensive than just heating your room a bit more and venting it during the cold season.
The key is to have a really tiny room where you do this, then you won't waste too much energy. Also I would rely more on infrared heating (like those kerosene ones provide) than convection through air (like deasel heaters do). It is probably more efficient to heat solid surfaces instead of the air that is being circulated anyway and would carry your heat away just like that.
Of course there are more refined solutions like vent systems with automated air filtering + air preheating or cooling down for the summer and what not, but they are probably constly (obvisouly those are for businesess, not for hobbyists) and may not be available everywhere you may want them.
Very informative video and awesome info!!
Thanks for sharing!
I had a polarized media air cleaner installed on my HVAC system which has not only removed a lot of the visible household dust, but it also is rated and tested to remove VOCs.
Which one did you install? Was in installed in your printer room or inside the printer itself?
@@EnchiladaBro it’s a PremierOne P6100 whole house filter.
Most homes don't filter the incoming air, they often use reverse air flow through the kitchen vents! I added an external vent with 20 inch high rating and another carbon filter after that and my meters can even detect any pollution, so they filters work.
I pressurize the house lightly with the incoming fan. Then my workshop has a wind exhaust with a fan outside to muffle the noise. It clears pretty fast, a few hours, and you can keep it on, though you might want to add a heat recover unit.
As I have learned from growing "Tomatoes" that air flow/circulation/new air, are not the same thing. You need ALL.
Thanks, that confirms my findings :)
@@thenextlayer Great video, I have been enjoying your channel a lot!
Me having my printer in my room seeing the intro of this video 😬
Me: continue printing and soldering as usual ans slowly die from cancer 🤣. More seriously, man this is a hard problem to solve when living in an apartment. Also me living in Finland doesn't make it any easier, with our cold winters...
@@Iisakkiik I understand and I also have a soldering station🤣. I am in college so I don't have much choice too. We die but die happy with 3d printers xD
Great video. I don't do any sanding/glueing/building in my room. That all happens in the garage (I know I am blessed to have that option). I do almost entirely FDM PLA printing, but still want to migrate them to my basement at some point.
That's a great idea. Do that + add some webcams and you're good. Just don't forget to ventilate / circulate / filter in the basement, because you don't want all that stuff building up so much.
I started printing back in 2012, the first week I noticed the ABS filament was intolerable indoors and sent it to my garage. My 3D printers have sat in a sealed closet with HEPA filter running since bring them back in
I've always thought it was a false sense of safety when I started seeing "filtered" enclosed 3D printers, when they do a single pass and pump the air straight out into the environment
When you say out into the environment, do you mean the room or out through a hose at a window? I am trying to be very conscious of this problem, and so I'm getting an enclosure. The only problem is the enclosure that I needed doesn't come with a fan vent, so I'm going to cut one in it and stick a computer fan in it, with about a 1m pipe to a window.
I guess I am very lucky. I live in the woods in Northern Michigan with excellant air quality. But, this has given me much to think about as we head into WINTER and closed air flow homes.
Love your stuff! And this was super informative! Anecdotal at best. But I did a big project and had 8 p1ps running in my living room 24/7 for 15 days printing pla. I can sometimes still smell pla now.
Now Henriertta Lacks story is more about how horribly the establishment treated this young ladys family.
I have just bought a plant growing box, that can be sealed and have ventilation to a window, a friend of mine recommended us getting one as we live in an apartment with doors to only 2 rooms.. It has been hell printing anything on my resin printer bc of the air quality, and as a result i haven't really printed anything.. I really hope putting my printer in an isolated box with ventilation to the outside will help, but i think ill buy a air quality checker thingy so i can keep an eye out on ventilating our apartment too.
I do think the best thing would be to have any kind of printer in an area you aren't in often, and/or in a closed off box/cabinet/closet/whatever that can contain the toxic fumes and ventilate them out.
Great video! Air quality is recently a problem I have taken on for my setup which I recently enclosed. I print a ton of ASA, and thought I better start to take counter measures to potential pollutants.
In my enclosure, I have a fresh air intake to bring cool outside air into the chamber. I also have a speed controlled (controlled by temperature inside the enclosure) exhaust fan paired with a 3 stage Hepa/carbon filter that for now vents to the room. I have been considering recirculating the exhaust into the chamber to conserve heat allow multiple passes through the filter. For now, I just have a 3-stage room air cleaner sitting on the exhaust side of my enclosure. it does seem to make a difference in the "dust" that had been settling on objects in the room before enclosing the printer. I can only assume though that the air quality is also better at this point as I do not have the tools to test that currently (next purchase).
In my garage currently have my ender 6 in a tent enclosure with an exhaust fan that goes to a rubbermade tub with some tiny holes drilled in the lid. I only print PLA and PETG. The particles are heavy enough that they just accumulate at the bottom and I just clean it up with a shop vac every 6 months and there's not that much. I make sure to clean the enclosure and the printer while wearing a respirator.
My goal is to build a big enclosure made of plexiglass, silicone, rubber, and construction lumber and have a in-line fan in there to extract the air. That way I can have a decent space for doing resins and epoxy. I live in a suburb of a big metro area, so it has its issues, and there is a bunch of pollen in the air almost year round, not to mention just general dust from living in the midwest. So I'll put in an air purifier or two to handle the cars and get a hookup for the shop vac to make working with it a little cleaner. Ultimately it is worth everyone's time to at least do a little bit to prevent themselves from breathing in more crap. You are never going to be able to avoid breathing in VoCs but you can limit your exposure on things that you can control.
Makes me feel great having one bedroom/office/workspace and plenty in nice Massachusetts window opening weather.
Ideally you would use vent hoods and downdraft tables for all of it and then you would wear respirator whenever in the environment. Then you perform regular industrial hygiene surveys. Anything less is a half-measure.
You should filter the air coming IN the window, also my house has the highest level of air filters in the A/C system, and to top all that off, I use an IQ Air HyperHepa filter (Yeah, REALLY expensive, but I got mine at an auction!) in my bedroom, this is designed to filter out the air using 3 stages with the last one small enough to filter out viruses. Also, I if the air quality seems low, I can leave the central air unit running on fan (unless it is really hot outside, as that blows air through the ducts in the attic which can pick up heat/cool and raise your cooling/heating bills a lot.). And yeah, air outside can be nasty...
Truly interesting video. I already bought an air purifier from IKEA that I turn on whenever I use my printer, but now I’m going to get also an air quality monitor also from ikea because the price and quality seems ok to me. Seems I need to keep it on for longer time after the print has finished
Where do you get an air quality monitor?
You need lot of circulation combined with HEPA+Activated Charcoal (for reducing small particles+chemical absorption) + UV activated TiO2 catalyst( to breakdown vocs). Also need electrostatic filtering for reducing PM2.5 count. It is better to have recirculation controlled by remote timers, than moving fresh air + exhausing pollutants for 3d printing(both resin, FDM) to extend life of filters and to limit exposure.
Fresh ventillation and exhaust with inline charcoal filtering may be the only best option for laser cutters and engravers. Just some 💭♥️👍
Whoa. You're blowing my mind. I haven't heard of TiO2... or electrostatic filtering. I have a lot to learn. Where can I learn more of this without going to night school or getting a degree in it?
@@thenextlayer Actually, some HEPA units of the past came with builtin UV TiO2 catalyst(produces ozone and helps breakdown VOCs). There were also some TiO2 bulbs to remove bad odor. May be it is not that economical to add that option to HEPA units. Also the electrostatic filtering is unique in that, it uses a high voltage wire(s) to electrically charge the dust particles, which then get collected on an opposite charged paper or plates. The short comings being need for circulating air, reduced capacity(if larger particles are present), and generation of residual ozone(lung irritant). There has been atleast one consumer unit(with a single wire and a replaceable vellum like paper), and honeywell units for hvac filtering that uses plates, willneed cleaning in a dish washer. I've been using these for a while, along with many hepa units with long life filters (similar to sharp plasma clusters) running 24x7, spread out in living/bedroom areas. You can easily observe the effects of 3d printing on people with sensitive lung conditions, even without any air quality monitoring. I even developed a portable personal ventillator for that purpose. It has been the result of continued research on moving to a home with recirculating hvac(primarily all of U.S. homes). Also, if you have an unfinished attic, it could benefit to exhaust the fumes(not the laser kind, which needs exhaust to outside after charcoal filtering), safely through a wall mounted exhaust fan into the attic area.
Hell yeah, we need to talk WAY MORE about this!
I want to see what effect all this has on your prints, how it affects warping, etc, and how humidity is affected by all this. This is all especially important to anyone who wants to print with materials that are sensitive to these things such as PVA, and if you end up needing to try the filaments more often as a result.
Honestly I didn't even think about Humidity in all of this. It's 74% humidity here right now, so basically I was like "screw it, I'm not going to try, I'm going to prioritize air quality and protecting my LUNGS over protecting my filament." Print quality has been fine on my open printers, but again, it's 33 celsius here... i think it would be very different if it were 8!
Humidity affects a lot more than just your filaments. Organic macro particles get coated by a layer of water and become heavier, harder to move around and exponentially more prone to aggregate or to be weighted down to the bottom air layer of the room and to the dust. Try placing the sensor on a high table one day and on the floor the next. The difference is clear @@thenextlayer
I have been very much holding back printing anything but PLA, as my Bambu Lab X1C is placed in my living room, and there are no other places it can be… But I went out to buy a SmartMi Air Purifier P2, which is placed close to the printer (below actually, both due to places to put it, but also not to cause drag of air messing with temperature change of parts being printed. If we cook something in the nearby kitchen, it can register a slight increase in PM2.5 (it can also detect PM10 I think it is). It will show whatever value is the highest. However it always PM2.5 and the value is most of the time at 001 to 003 (003 more if Windows are open). Part of the low values is no doubt that the whole house has an air circulation system or rather, it pulls out the old air, and sucks in new air, and all goes through a filter. Intake air goes through a pollen filter. The only better filter for this would be an activated coal filter, which is also possible. So in my living room there are 2 in takes of air, and about 8 to 10 meter from the printer, there is an air exhaust. So maybe the air circulation is as good as it gets. Also more or less living at the edge of town, so mostly family houses, and some open fields of nature, so air quality is ok here in general. I do not have a Bento box though. Can never hurt to look into that. Hmm actually also got an EVE Home Air Quality device that measure VOCs in the bedroom. However again, air quality is mostly shown as 5 stars, but at worst 4 out of 5, but I think this was either after a nights sleep, or during day with Windows open. Maybe I will move this into the living room, to help monitor the area around the printer.
I very glad to have had my eyes opened. Thank you.
In Canada, or at least in Alberta, weather reports now routinely include the Air Quality Health Index number. Everyone who's endured this past summer where basically every forest in the country caught fire is well aware that the outside air might be awful... Anyway, I don't know if a similar resource is available elsewhere, but if practical, checking on the local outside air quality can help make decisions about ventilation - and potentially projects. There where a few days this summer where I just shut down my 3d printer because the smoke was so bad outside I didn't want the vent fan running.
Damn, that's a good idea, too. I didn't even THINK to check the air quality index of my city, and yet, I checked it all the time when I was in China... I'm learning so much just from the comments of this video and the discussions I'm having here... I'm really glad I did this video :)
"open a window" *cries in Houston swamp*
🤣
You talked about moving air around the room as well as outside, but would a strong bathroom vent work in a small room?
My workspace, if you could call it that, is just a somewhat large closet. I have one resin printer and one FDM printer in there. I disconnected the AC vent from there and added a new duct with the plan of exhausting the air outside, but at the moment it only exhausts to a crawlspace.
That's obviously not ideal, especially since the kitchen is right above the exhaust port, and the crawlspace runs along the underside of half the house.
My idea is, since I sometimes run a second FDM printer in the crawlspace, I could probably drill a hole to the outside under the front porch, put a bathroom fan connected to that hole, and run the duct through a splitter to the crawlspace as well as to the closet. I could then cover the end of the duct in the crawlspace when I don't need it and it would exhaust residual resin fumes from the closet.
Anyways all I'm really asking is whether or not a bathroom vent fan will suffice for 2 small workspaces.
I also sometimes sand and such in the larger room the closet is connected to.
Be safe! Got me thinking about air filtration, thanks!
Depending on size, orientation, airflow dynamics, and volume of material passed through it, an activated carbon filter with a HEPA prefilter lasts somewhere between 2 weeks (heavy use) and 1 year. Moderate daily use will reduce the life expectancy of the filter to 1 to 3 months. You really need monitoring devices to determine how long the filter remains effective at eliminating particles.
Place your printers in an enclosed case (I used mdf to build a box with a door to place my printer in) and make sure it's air tight, you also want to ensure there is enough open space in the enclosed case to take your lid off resin printer and be able to do everything necessary inside.
Then get a boat motor fan 3-5" and use it as a exhaust suction fan to suck out all the voc's in the case and push them through a exhaust hose or pipe headed outside your house (I cut hole in wall of house and ran it through there). From the outside of your house have the exhaust pipe or hose aim upward and be at least 3 ft above that rooms roof (to decrease odds of voc's being pushed out and pulled back in through open window).
I am hazmat and HazWhopper certified, anyone wishing to handle dangerous chemicals should get the same certifications.
The room I keep this case in I have two fans circulating air while a window is open.
Always wear the proper PPE when 3-d printing
This is a huge wake up call for me. I got a 3d printer in 2021, and my asthma started getting worse as time went on. "PLA is safe, right?" I have 4 printers running in my basement, about 20 ft from my bedroom door. About six months ago I was admitted to the hospital with acute respiratory failure and had a cloudy ct scan indicating lung damage. We were thinking it was from covid or from thc vape pens. But I never officially had covid, and I barely used those pens in the past. Now I think it was from the printers. That's a big bummer. Time to put the hobby on hold I guess. Your comment was very insightful. Thank you.
@@mikek3658 all resins and filaments produce VOC's (resins at a higher volume than filaments when in liquid form) they are dangerous when inhaled, can cause cancer, breathing problems, calcification/crystalization of lungs and other organs (though rare, the exposure would have to be great and long term). Always wear a respirator when around resins or filaments.
@@mikek3658 fellow asthmatic here, that’s 1000% certain PLA particles 0,1 micron diameter. HEPA H13 filters manages up to 0,3 diameter. A shed somewhere outside, or a balcony.
@@mikek3658thc vape pens are really bad from what I've researched.
I’m a new 3d print enthusiast, but a long-time HVAC technician. You should look into a Panasonic erv, or their exhaust fans. They are good stuff
Are they priced for consumers? A lot of the exhaust systems I found with good reviews were $800+
I recently had my first baby and ive been trying to take air quality in our home a lot more seriously for his sake. I keep my makers space in a separate room where i have added an air purifier an exhaust fan for my resin printer and I always have a window open so i can get some fresh air. I will be purchasing one of these dreo fans as the data clearly shows that it does a good job at circulating the air. Thank you for the video! It was just what i was looking for.
Nice. You’re gonna be a great dad… put the kids and their health first!
I'm getting ready to set up my printer space. I plan on setting up a fume hood that will have a tee and dampers. I plan to have an activated carbon filter that can recirculate the air in the room and then adjust the dampers to vent outside, and a hole in the wall down low to let in clean air. Since I'll have an AC in the room I want to be able to circulate the air in the room and not just blow it all out and bring in new hot humid air. I might throw a HEPA filter in too. My resin printer, my new X1C and my IPA station will be under the hood.
Minor/major detail
Formaldehyde is a nearly colorless, highly irritating gas with a sharp odor. It dissolves easily in water and is found in formalin (a solution of formaldehyde, water, and methanol). Formaldehyde is used in the manufacture of plastics; urea-formaldehyde foam insulation; and resins used to make construction materials (e.g., plywood), paper, carpets, textiles, paint, and furniture. OSHA PEL (permissible exposure limit) = 0.75 ppm (averaged over an 8-hour work shift)
OSHA STEL (short-term exposure limit) = 2 ppm (15 minute exposure)
NIOSH IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health) = 20 ppm
Formaldehyde is a nearly colorless gas with a pungent, irritating odor even at very low concentrations (below 1 ppm). Its vapors are flammable and explosive. Because the pure gas tends to polymerize, it is commonly used and stored in solution. Formalin, the aqueous solution of formaldehyde (30% to 50% formaldehyde), typically contains up to 15% methanol as a stabilizer.
"fresh air in the bottom junk out the top" is the recommendations standard but PPM don't mean squat unless you know what your measuring for! you measured up to 6000 PPM and formaldehyde as an example is dangerous at 2-3 ppm not 6000 PPM
industrial air exchanges in higher VOC areas should be 3:1 at minimum
MSDS sheets should be included/some require a request in the the supply of each material and simply follow the safety in section 4 MATERIAL SAFTEY DATA SHEETS
Wow. Thanks for this good stuff.
You probably want an energy recovery ventilator to exchange the outside air with filtration and preserving your temperature and humidity. California wildfires got me very attentive to PM2.5 levels and I've just started monitoring CO2 (holy crap you've pegged your meter at 6,000!) and looking at VOC as well. I'm currently working on, and hope to make a video about, effective ventilation in an apartment.
I live in Austin we are in cedar fever time, when the cedar trees bloom. The air quality drops everywhere here down during this time. So moving unfiltered air into the house just is 😢 a no go. On the charcoal filter on your filter , when it shows that it not reducing the air as much than I would change all filters. check on how long it takes to drop on its cleaning, is it 1 week, 2 weeks #weeks or #months. After that based on that I would set up a plan on replacing the filters in stages, based on time and printer usage. If the printer is not being used or has just a few hours or days of print time than I would not change the filters inside the print. In the military this would be call a planned maintenance schedule or Pms check list. This could be done when you are doing Maintenance on your machines. Just having a filter inside the printer is useless unless you clean the inside of the printer and your work space. At the end of the you should do a work space cleaning and printer that have stopped printing for that day. A wipe down on the print that has ended use for that day would be huge on your reduce of VOC levels. Than at the end of the week clean all the outside of the areas of the printer.
Snap, this is good advice, I didn't even THINK about pollen when I talked about forests and such, but a few comments like yours (and yours obviously) have opened my eyes.
How to build a car spray paint booth in your house.
Watching these videos helped me understand pressure and flow in order to move the contaminated air out of your space. A 30" window fan was sufficient.
30" is HUGE! I would hope so!!
I bought a broken gas station fridge that's 30"x30" on the outside, Made a shelf with a drawer in it, and printed some Lack enclosure hepa filtered fan housings. As well as a small recirculating hepa fan. I've never tested the air quality in that room, but im sure it's OK.
Haha I feel like you made this vid right after I made the comment about the topic :P
Great job here, good takeaway at the end!
How's that OnShape class going?
Need to have a go at my space as well.. I live near the woods in Norway, so the air quality outside is awesome at least 🤣 Alot of "good to know" in this video, thanks 😁👍
Glad you enjoyed it! Would be curious for you to test your air quality and see if my assumptions are any good. Can you get good air quality with just circulation and ventilation? Would love to find out
I will try it out as soon as I get of work on the 12th. Hope you are safe! 😢
I got very sick after getting into printing ABS. I got really good at it, so I had my printer going almost 24/7, it was in an enclosure, but not ventilated. It took me 3 months after I stopped all 3d printing to get better to the point my doctor was not concerned any more. Since then my printer has been in an enclosure that vents to the outside via a 4" duct and a very slow moving 80mm fan. Now that I ordered a Bambu P1S, I will design a way to route the air from the enclosure to the outside via that same duct. I am still scared to print ABS / ASA just because the smell of the filament triggers horrible memories. But I'll figure out.
Glad I do my printing in the garage
I throw you a basic conditioning tip which my father told me (he's the engineer me nuh) and I found it useful when indoor growing weed: If you enclose the printer enough you have to duct out at least 2,5x the sum of the area of the gaps which allows air in. That's the min section of your air outlet, but as you forcefully extract the air you can go as low as 2x if the air vent is very powerful. 2,5x "should suffice" in the case of ex. a chimney, forced air but no motor no mechanical forced extraction.
As you work "underpressured" and not in the meaning of lazy :) there's no chance anything except radiations could escape the enclosure of the printer if not through the forced exctraction.
Add a duct of the right section to drive the air out of the premises and out there you might use a carbon filter the ones for the growrooms. Given the volume of a printer compared to a full blooming afghani kush you see that a 20 bucks worth agricultural filter will last you at least 6 months on printers. ;)
Think they're conceived for who even uses forced CO2 on the blooms to force the plants growth, not merely to avoid suspicious smells.
Air recycling is an easy game. It's hydroponics the tricky one. 😂😂😂
I can tell by this comment that you enjoy your product.
Any thought of supplementing your Dreo with a dust collector? Woodworkers use them to help keep PM2.5 levels down when sanding, sawing ,etc. It would probably extend the life of your Dreo's filters.
Not to mention that measuring '2.5' particles or 'VOCs' isn't really good enough to correlate to health effects, specifics matter, and we don't have specifics, even at the governmental lab level.
Common sense goes a long long way here. Whether you're a city dweller or live in that enchanted forest, the air quality outside is what counts the most.
1. You must keep your work area as clean as possible.
2. air circulation is a must
3. Air purifiers are much needed especially if you are in an industrial park and/or city dweller.
4. Heed to the Precautions for toxic substances goes a long way as well.
5. Use Your Brain instead of a hat rack.
6. keep a schedule on your filters, especially your charcoal - change after so many hours of 3D printing and so on...
Yes! This is smart. Number 6 is particularly genius!
Good points were "Even with BentoBox and such you don´t know if the air quality is good enough inside" this shows to me how important it is to increase the filtering action of the bento boxes by installing for instance a 5015 fan or similar, increasing the filter surface with a bigger filter and so on. I should err on the more clean side, because those little solutions can clean the air pretty well but it takes hours in some cases since they can´t usually speaking not keep up with the emissions while the printer is running.
Some of the Nevermore filters have VOC sensors integrated (on both sides) to indicate when the filters need changing. You can probably add an indicator (if they haven't already) for clean air.
@@reddragonflyxx657 The sensor does not make the air cleaner sooner it just indicated when it´s done, but that´s a good point.
@@sierraecho884 Yeah, the sensor does nothing to air quality, it just measures VOC concentration before and after the filter, and it should be pretty easy to program a cheap RGB indicator light with different colors for when it detects
- clean inlet air (safe to open enclosure)
- high VOC inlet air (don't open the enclosure yet)
- high VOC outlet air (saturated carbon filter)
@@reddragonflyxx657 Still would take hours before you can open the door with those small filters and you still would have to change the filter material once per month. At least. And now you need those sensors, and wiring, and all that crap.
I make sure my printers are quite well sealed, I run 2 x CleanAir filters in each printer, they run 60% speed during a print, and after the print they run 100% for 5 minutes, I have used a air quality tester, and this seems to be enough to flush everything when printing with ABS, but you should absolutely be exhausting air out of the environment and allowing fresh air to come in.
Fresh air from the outside is sometimes as bad or even worse as your air inside.
@@UdreamWeprint Yes agree on that, I'm quite fortunate though, as this is not the case where I live in Australia, constant clean ocean breeze and fresh country air is plentiful.
11:28 That fan really tryna windmill over there 😂😂😂
Well at least you have a separate space to work in, only place I can have mine is the same room I sleep in, and ain't no way I'm opening my doors and windows when it's in the 20's outside...I do have an air purifier that's constantly running at least, and I suppose I could turn on my bathroom fan periodically to try to flush the air (I always turn it on when I use the [gas] stove bc it doesn't have a vent for some reason..), butt I'm unfortunately kind of limited in what I can do otherwise..
Sucking the air out of a window (or even a dedicated hole with a dryer vent on the outside) by using a bounce house fan (and printing adapters to match dryer hose etc that are flanged to mate with the blower) will move a lot of air. I use those fans and carpet dryer fans to ventilate my shop when welding and they are aggressive. No need to filter what you completely remove.
I hope all is well and that you and your family are safe.
Thank you.
Drafts and random air movements can cause huge problems with print quality... is it not an issue in your situation, since your printer room is enclosed and all the circulated air is one temperature?
Also, can you let us know what that "cheap air quality sensor which measures VOC" you were using is, and where we can get one? :)
I'm surprised you didn't know that workshop spaces are so polluted. Every serious factory have to monitor the air quality on a daily basis and even have those monitor kits that they are putting on workers once in a while to get accurate data. The government even regulate it.
I'm strongly advising every workshop worker / makers to put mask with quality filters.
Still great video! Keep doing your thing!
I had no idea about that... wow! I don't have an engineering or manufacturing background, and I've never worked in a company that wasn't internet-related, so yeah, this is all new to me. Thanks for sharing. I wonder what kind of sensors etc they use... it would be good to pick some of those up for each of the rooms of my work-space
Where did you get that air quality detector ?
AliExpress.
@@thenextlayer I was looking last night and couldn't find the one you have, there are tons of the same looking ones but none of them advertised the switching orientation mode from upright to sideways. If you could provide a link, that would be awesome!!!!
"Let fresh air in" is the step a lot of folks seem to skip.
And I admit, I'm appalled by the number of people who think 3d Gloop is safe. Anything that can dissolve PETG is very, very not safe, and probably a controlled substance in California. Use a respirator!
My last thought is this: large numbers of people having hobby level 3d printers is something that's been around a fairly short time. We have no idea what the long-term health effects of being around these machines will be. I know that even printing PLA is enough to set off my asthma and yes, having asthma means I'll react to air quality that other folks find just fine - but it also means there's *something* present to react to. Anyone who keeps a working 3d printer in a room they spend a lot of time in is, at the very least, inhaling some quantity of microparticle plastics and that can't be good for you.
A lot of really good points here. I don't want to denigrate GLOOP! because they do put warnings all over the packaging, but you're right, most people do not heed them!
I could have missed it, but did you run a control experiment/test?? If not, you cannot be certain that your observed decrease in air quality within the data is directly correlated to 3D printing, filament drying, soldering and etc. For example, the observed decrease in air quality could just as plausibly be caused by urban-related air pollution.
More awareness around this is a great thing. Thanks for putting this together and giving great resources, too.
Glad you enjoyed it!
On my Lathe i have a suction tube that sucks the light dust away and dumps it in a filtered box, I was going to try it on the enclosed printer but then keeping it hot in there becomes a nightmare as that thing moves alot of air. Then i thought about recirculating the air through a carbon or panel filter but that would be hurricane force drafts with that air shifter, I Think this would be the best option but on a smaller scale. Just means spending more money. But, Health wins over money. Stay safe.
wow, well done.
lovely background wall.
Greetings from a yet clean Galilee😃
Thank you! 😊
I know you're sponsored by Dreo and all, but I thought I should still suggest: try a window fan. A fan that sits in the window frame. Usually they come with two fans in one unit and they both can reverse their direction (one in and one out, both in, both out).
I didn't have air conditioning in an over 32C upper floor apartment one summer. The heat being trapped in the room meant that often it was hotter in my apartment than it was outside. Using a window fan would reduce to 25 C in I think around an hour as opposed to several hours. I tried powerful box fans with no success. This leads me to think that the seal of a window fan is just superior for air flow to or from the outside. Would love if you could do testing on this some day.
I bought one after this video so I can have my cake and eat it too.
From those floor shots, it looks like you have a particulate issue at least as heavy as any VOC issue :). I'm lucky enough to live in that mystical, enchanted meadow called the Mountains of N Alabama, but I still use air circulation and filtration for my FDM and Resin printing environment.
Bingo. City air quality. With construction. So many particles
I discovered 3d printing just a few months ago and have been printing constantly with my new printer. I absolutely love it! Your videos have become my favorites and I'm trying to work thru watching all of them while staying current. I am writing my concerns, hopes, and well wishes for you and your family's safety with the new current attacks on your homeland. I hope that you are all okay and that you will be able to return to making your awesome videos soon!
Thank you for the kind words and warm wishes!
What about exhaust hoods? I’m sure you could easily design an exhaust hood to go over top of your printers. I’d use it for both enclosed and open printers to try and suck up the air from those spaces. You can throw in a computer fan in the inlet and then have the hose dump it out a window.
Maybe it’s time for an ERV/HRV for your studio? That’ll filter and condition the outside air as it enters the unit.
Agree with having an ERV/HRV to about any space, these systems are not commonly known from what I’ve seen.
What’s that? Like a professional system? Sounds so expensive
@@thenextlayerthe house grade ERVs/HRVs are expensive. Maybe it is time for an open source hardware version that’s closer to the DIY air filters that woodworkers use. Focus would be on exhausting the PM2.5 + VOCs and trying to condition the incoming air to remove humidity and filter it a little. Doesn’t need to be perfect.
@@thenextlayerA ERV/HRV is a fresh air filtration and ventilation device that is pretty basic at its core. It's two fans with a heat exchanger core. One fan pulls air from the outside through the heat exchanger and a filter while the other fan exhausts the indoor air through the heat exchanger to the outside. This gives you a constant flow of filtered fresh air so that you aren't adding particulates to your indoor environment and the heat exchanger core helps to temper the incoming air so that you aren't bringing in hot air in the summer or cold air in the winter.
So at least in the US the whole house units can be a few thousand for the unit plus labor and materials depending on your setup. But there are some that are more of a single room version that is somewhat like a bathroom fan that is in the 400-600 dollar range, and could maybe be diy depending on how handy you are. That might be a good small workshop size and give a good air exchange and filtering system without needing a remodel for a whole house system.
I am doing a lot of research in this area. and have some notes. I will tell you that I had to move Resin printing to the garage. and isopropyl alcohol use causes my meter to max out for tvoc. like really fast .
Yep, that is the same as my findings, but as you probably noticed in the video, turning on a powerful oscillating fan + opening a window cleared all that out in a way that even opening the window + oppposite door couldn't do.
@@thenextlayer air circulation is the key!! I'm building an air circulation exchange system for the house and garage.
Great video. Just bought some fans and another air purifier. Also gonna build a bentobox and a soldering fume extractor now with a filter on the end. Great info presented
What would be a good (enough) measurement device to check the air quality ? Pricerange 50 Euros or so ? What should it measure ?
I was waiting for PLA is more toxic than ABS but i was mislead. My takeaway from this is if you print in an enclosed space it's pretty much just going to give you the same air quality as a city
PLA irritates my throat and lungs a LOT. Asthma makes me way more sensitive than normal people, but the fact is, the nanovirus fills the entire house even with an enclosure with an exhaust hose and a fan, several closed doors, and open windows. I am waiting for a HEPA air purifier, but the PLA particles are still smaller than what HEPA can manage. Looks like a deadend. My best solution so far: open the windows and leave the house and go to the nearest mall like a bum and let the machine overlord live in my house (or give up and not print in the house, which means no winter printing). The funny thing is, I switched to FDM printing to escape from nasty resin fumes that destroy my heart, only to find out that “completely safe” PLA is an extreme irritant for me as well. But asthma aside, I don't think breathing nanoplastic is much good for anyone, even tough guys from reddit. This vid, honestly, paints a picture that is even worse than what I thought. Ugh.
Same here, I just print outside, under an awning. It solves a lot of issues.
what is make/model of air quality meter?
Depending on the size of your work space you need to have an air exchange er for the right cfms there's a formula to figure out cfms im a union sheet metal worker and I do duct working and test and balance of air units all about cfms to move air efficiencly could run a duct work solution to that problem maybe that a video I can share of my work place
But can I integrate Dreo into Home Assistant without having to sign up for an account or app?
You need to sign up for a DREO account I'm afraid :(
One practice I never thought of when I'm first started using enclosed printers. You need to wear a N95 mask or better when you open the door up after its finished printing a print. The air when you open the door even if it is PLA it is full of micro/macro particles and other nasty stuff floating you don't want to breathe in.
99.9% of air purifiers are useless for VOC. If you want to filter VOC you need something like an IQ Air Chemisorber and that's gonna set you back more than a spanky new Voron. "HEPA" filters don't do as much as you think and normal consumer grade purifiers are kinda crap. If you want a good purifier you'll need to pony up.
Hi, thanks for this first step in air quality vs. 3d printing.
You are right to warn people about the potential impact an 3D printed on health.
Following your video, I would like just to highlight two points:
1. This study is sensor limited to max 2.5nm and we have no idea about smaller VOCs quantities and health impacts.
2. The nature of the chemicals emitted during 3D printing is not considered. And as far as I know it's these chemicals that led to warming us that 3D printing ABS is more harmful that PLA for example.
Performing a study to address point 2 will request a lot of resources because only gas chromatography is able to provide data.
I have been wondering for a long time if enough people will be interested and ok to finance a real scientific study with a crowdfunding campaign considering filament materials, printer characteristics (enclosure, ventilation, filtering…)…
What do you think?
This was great! Thank you for shining a light on the possible issues with air quality and 3D printing. I've been wondering about this, and while I've moved our printer to a space that seems more ventilated, I'll be reassessing it now based on what you've discovered. Thanks for being so thorough!
Thanks! I actually don't think I was thorough ENOUGH - I wish I could've spent another month on this video... but I'm super glad it has at least opened people's eyes, and I hope I can do a follow-up video in the future :)
Ok that's a lot of info that's scary...i just got my 1st printer....if it's in the furnace room and isn't running constantly do i still have to worry?
One more thing to add is that every time you bring home a new product, like a printer, or anything manufactured, it may give off VOCs for a period of time. That "new smell" might seem nice, but may not be great for you.
True!
Great video. I would like to make a request for a video if you are willing and interested. As someone relatively newer to 3D printing and the owner of a Bambu printer, I find lots of random tutorials and information on youtube about how to tune and dial in for filament like PETG etc.. temp towers.... all types of twekas and manual setting changes... but I stuggle to find any Bambu Studio specific guides .. I see similar settings in the slicer to ones mentioned in other slices in these videos and tutorials... but I don't always know if they translate directly to a setting in Bambu Studio. I guess what I'm looking for is a Bambu Studio specific guide to tuning filaments like PETG with the right settings for temp etc.. if something already exists out there please anybody share this with me.
i have a Bambu X1c and print PETG with the setting built in with 0 problems
Containing your printers in a ventilated cabinet would decrease the pollution within your studio
Yep. I used to do that but I have way too many printers now
What about those that have an open air bedslinger like a Ender 3 series, and I only print in PLA and not very often? Like I'm printing something now, but I haven't used my printer in a few weeks actually.
The presence of particles is an issue, but the content of the particles is essential, too.
Definitely great video for air quality solutions, love the words “let’s nature mother to handle it”; but when current solution mostly just drive the pollution out, could our nature mother burden more? Thinking if there have any economic/ simple solution to naturalize the pollution?
Yep. You’re totally right. TVOCs means temporarily volatile so I think time is a factor too. But it’s definitely better to filter before exporting to the air.
I would echo the earlier comments. I did research for the U.S. Army for a few years. 1 micron to .1 micron are much more likely to lodge deep in your lungs than 2.5. Your lungs don't have a mechanism to sweep out these small particles. They do for the larger ones as long as you haven't damaged them with smoking. I'm only running one printer so putting it in an enclosure and connecting it to a window with a dryer vent and 120mm fan was a fool-proof solution. The fan pulls enough air out of the enclosure to keep the printer from overheating. The whole setup was under $100 US. You and your family only get one set of lungs.
Often times people thing tools like a table saw are the most harmful for the air quality, and while the effect of a table saw are not nothing, the particulates that are much riskier are actually the dust and particulates from sanders the really small fine particles that we often brush off as harmless! Wear your respirators and you’ll thank yourself later!!
As a medical doctor very interested in air quality and specifically how it is impacted by 3-D printers (fused-filament fabrication and the even more toxic resin printers), it’s good to see someone investigate this issue that is unconscionably swept under the rug by most of the foremost 3-D printing TH-cam stars. This one gets some things correct but too much wrong, perhaps bending over backwards to help DREO sell fans. The one featured in this show is simply inadequate for the purpose.
Contrary to what Mr. The Next Layer (sorry, I don’t know his name) suggested, it should not take hours or overnight to clear the air in a room; such abysmal performance results from using the wrong fan and the wrong approach to evacuating air. A good design could clear a room in a minute; an excellent design could clear it in seconds and - crucially - safeguard room occupants juxtaposed to active 3-D printers.
Another mistake he makes is apparently assuming the consumer-grade air quality sensors he uses represent valid data. In reality, they miss the smallest and most dangerous nanoparticles, which are poorly removed by most filters. One needs to read and understand their technical data sheets, not blindly assume that filters adequate for ordinary household air sufficiently mitigate the hazards generated by 3-D printers.
If you live in a populated area, another mistake is venting outside without first thoroughly filtering the air because some of the exhaust air will inevitably be inhaled by neighbors (through open windows, being outside, and because no building is hermetically sealed: outside air and its contaminants inevitably wick inside). Legislators are commonly oblivious to this risk. If you take five minutes off the life of a cancer patient doomed to die in the next hour, you would likely be prosecuted and convicted of murder. Yet you will almost certainly get off scot-free if you take years off the lives of neighbors by polluting their air with 3-D printer emissions or those from wood-burning fireplaces and stoves - part of the price we pay for being led by scientifically illiterate people who, relevant to this matter, also permit 3-D printers to be freely sold without adequate warnings and with the 3-D printing industry free of regulation, permitting it to pretend that its products are not toxic. But they are, and Mr. The Next Layer realizes this, so kudos to him for addressing it.
How worried should I be about printing PLA with an activated carbon filter, an enclosure (BambuX1C) and an air purifier adjacent to the printer?
Sounds like you’re taking precautions! But not a bad idea to test the air quality
I've also been down the rabbit hole of air quality for VOC's from 3D printing and smoke with pollution (wildfires in my area). I think there is a critical thing people miss with particle count on air purifiers like the Dreo and any PM 2.5 meters. PM 2.5 is measured in µm (micrometer), VOC's in some publications with FDM printing are measured in nanometers. I've read a couple of them in the past and a lot of VOC's for plastic like ABS, PETG and others would be around 25 -100 nm in size which is 0.02 - 0.1 micrometer, far under PM2.5 capable measurement range. Also a bladed fan like the Dreo in the video only pushes 375cfm and there is very little static pressure especially when it reaches the window. I use a 900cfm B-AIR VP-25 with a custom 12" duct, but there are many squirrel cage style blower fans that would be smarter to use with a flexible duct. I think setting up a blower fan at one side of the room and running a duct across the room to a window and sealing the duct to the fan and window is best as long as your house has some air leakage which most do and that means there will be positive airflow into that room. You could always crack open a window in another room and the static pressure will pull air from there. The bigger the better for CFM when having a lot of printing or VOC's I think. What I've learned is my PM2.5 meters are fine to gauge the air quality for wood working and also wildfire and any outdoor pollution because with those applications there is a wide variety of particle sizes so as they all increase or dissipate and you can see from the larger particles whats happening. If you want to test your room to see what's how its working after setting up a fan system you can use a smoke test, try and fill the room and see how long it takes to filter it to clear again. You may discover that placing the fan in a different area will be more effective but keep in mind a windy day outside might limit or increase airflow as it will overcome some of the fans static pressure.
In air PM refers to solid or liquid particles, while VOC refers to gas.
Methane is a VOC, as is Sarin. Both are colourless, odorless gases. The former is non-toxic enough that I wouldn't be surprised if 80% methane/20% oxygen (800,000 ppmv VOC) was breathable. The latter has an IDLH of 0.1 mg/m³ (which is ~17.4 ppbv if I did my math correctly). It *really* matters what the VOCs are, far more than their total concentration.
@@reddragonflyxx657 That makes sense. I was basing my comments on the nm measurement and comparing it to the PM 2.5 just for a size reference to the video. All the articles I've read on VOC's with 3D printing are in nanometers. It's a grey area for me as nothing is completely clear of how harmful some of the VOC's are with certain printed materials Gases seem to linger for a long time. For example any paint thinner fumes I can smell for hours if I dont have a proper ventilation fan in a well sealed room. I think the smarter thing to do is understand the room ventilation and know for sure all air is exchanging quickly.
Great article thanks. Stay safe , so sorry to hear of all the conflict going on, keep us informed.
Build a corsi rosenthal box. You can use a lower MERV# filter because all you need to do is remove practicals larger than a virus.
16:07 It's worth noting that trees output a lot of VOCs too. Then there's pollen.
Like I see no sense of circulating air inside the room where all printers are because all stuff is not flying in the air all time, it uses to stick on walls floor and everywhere where air is. So air flitration device just cleans only what is in air and when you mowe boxes or anything in the room the new microplastics which were sitting on things you move start floating in the air. My solution to this is fully enclosed printers, even when thay have no enclosure than bild smth easy using for example acrylics and mount a fan to this with the pipe going out the window.
I have my printer in my room because I have no other place to put it. Is there any recommendations to help?
Open windows and vent. Move air, or use vent hoods, filter, etc..