One note: Anaris ABSOLUTELY knows what a Qunari is. If a Qunari Rook fights Anaris, Anaris will deliver a scathing racist rant against them, using the term "Filthy half-breed" to refer to Qunari. Bellara will also note that there's clearly some connection between Anaris and the Devouring Storm in Dialogue with Taash if certain conditions are met. In contrast, Mythal's fragment will note with some bemusement that Qunari didn't exist in her day, so whatever *did* happen there that Anaris is aware of, it was after Mythal's (first) death (timeline-wise).
In the build up of Bellara's questline, I really thought the reveal was going to be that Anaris wasn't trying to make demons, but Qunari. I'm not entirely sure I'm wrong-- the elves did become or summon demons, but Anaris also claims that something went wrong. I thought the obvious clue was the giant horns he wears.
The lore about what lies beyond the Amaranthine Ocean is surprisingly deep and interconnected with a lot of otherwise unrelated events. The point of entry is Hafter, the legendary Alamarri hero who lead humanity to victory during the Second Blight. After becoming the first Teyrn of Ferelden, he decided to sail East across the sea and was never found. His sword, which he brought with him, was found on the other hand: Yusaris, the Dragonslayer. The sword on the main menu screen of Dragon Age Origins, was found by the Hero of Ferelden after completing the ritual of the Watchguard of the Reaching, a ritual that is eerily reminding of the invasion of the Black City by the Magisters Sidereal. The sword itself was in the hands of the Shah Wyrd, a spirit of considerable power. Before Hafter, this sword was property of Hafter's rumoured father, Dane, another Alamarri legend. Dane found Yusaris in the lair of Fenshal, a Dragon, literally the Bane of Wolves. Dane used this sword to slay the Werewolf, but not before spending "a year and a day all told" with their lives swapped. Dane lived as a wolf, the werewolf lived as a human hunter. Coincidentally, "a year and a day" is the exact wording of the time Andruil wanted Fen'harel to serve in her bed before being interrupted by Anaris in the tale Fen'Harel and the Tree. There's, of course, more, much more. Dane and Hafter are a rabbit's hole across all games, if you want to dive there. Speaking of Anaris, there's also his Forgotten Friend, Geldauran. His codex entry (Geldauran's Claim, from Jaws of Hakkon) is very reminiscent of the wording the devs use to describe their intent with the lines uttered by the ???? figure in the post credits scene. It's also extremely ominous.
Honestly I think the Secret Ending would've been liked a lot more if the voice over was like "watched, waited, helped" instead. Establish they aren't manipulating choices, but they are biding their time.
well that is not what Bioware wanted to be the case. They needed to destroy the IP and its story in order to reboot it. Ferelden gets destroyed in the game off screen as well as most of its inhabitants. Therefore all we did in DAO did not matter, since all the characters we meet and save in DAO perish in this game anyway.
Well, why now? I would say that because of the death of Evanuris. The thing holding them back were not the gods themselves, but their Archdemons. They are allegedly weak to the dragon fire and this could be the reason why those dragons had been bonded to the gods - a perfect controllable weapon against the TATS.
"featureless black underneath the hood" makes me think of Vorgoth. I played a Mourn Watcher Rook, and in a conversation with Emmerich, one of them says "no one knows what Vorgoth is"
I hope Vorgoth is not an Executor. I more like to think he is the sprit of the very Necropolis itself, kind of like how the Lady o fthe Forest/Witherfang was the spirit of the whole Bracillian forest (At least I think she is, otherwise why the name.)
While I'll wait to see where this plot twist goes before making a judgement, I hope they go down the route of "a third party across the sea has been observing Thedas this entire time, and now that most threats in Thedas that could have stopped them are gone (blights, titans, Evanuris, Solas) they are now free to act without someone stopping them" rather than the "it was people across the sea all along" while a manipulation plot isn't a bad idea, I feel like most of the plots and lore in Thedas have already been multiple layers of manipulation. I personally would prefer if it was a third party unrelated to Thedas that now has the ability to invade Thedas because they've been sitting and watching and now that Thedas seems vulnerable, now is the opportunity for them to get involved.
I mean, they left it open to interpretation so people would especulate. Like, your idea was my understanding too, that now they can act because most things that could stop then are gone.
That would be pretty interesting if true. Instead of any level of foul play being had here, we have ourselves an overwhelming force that's just been playing the long game of waiting for their far away enemies to kill or weaken each other enough so that they can move in and dominate the area to achieve their own ends. They simply needed time in their favor to kick things off.
One thing that bugged me about the Executor is- When the launch trailer aired out I saw Vorgoth in one of the scene and went "Wow, he really looks like an executor." Then I completely forgot about it until now. But- He does look like one. In a conversation with a mournwatcher Rook about Lichdom, Emmrich himself says that "no one knows what Vorgoth is". The mournwatcher should be the best informed people on the matter of spirits. If they don't know what Vorgoth is, it most likely means it's neither spirit nor (un)dead that they know of. I also find that Vorgoth also talk similarly to the Executors of the secret ending, less stilted but it could be explained by his proximity to people. I wouldn't be surprised if Vorgoth was also an executor hiding in plainsight. But how did he end up in the Mournwatch, how long has he been there and to what end is what i can't figure out.. (It also seem like his model in the gamefiles was named "Executor", it could be a scrapped concept for the Executors that ended up being used for Vorgoth's model and not renamed. But it's.. a weird coincidence if true.) In a more general note regarding the Executors, I've wondered why the Executors cared about Solas so much in TN and what I came up with was close to what you thought about. The Executors seem to want Thedas for something and the gods were too much of a danger for them to try it before knowing they were all dealt with. Not only that, but all the things they seem to have influenced HAS fragilized Thedas. The Blight fragilized the ruling of Ferelden, Kirkwall shattered the templar order, the circles and shook the chantry. Inquisiton put the whole world in a tight spot and caused the Antaam to break apart from the Qun. Veilguard has a majority of the world in shamble because of the damage the blight caused. Thedas post Veilguard is in an extremely fragile state because of all that happened in the last 20 years. When I saw that secret ending I wondered what was the point, but when i sat down and thought about it. To me, it looks like destabilization tactics. Fragilizing all the important structures of nations so that they pose less of a fight when an invasion barges in. Perhaps explaining why Thedas might be referred as a "rotten fruit" ready to be plucked. I also do wonder if the Executors and those across the sea are linked one way or another to the isolation of Thedas. It hasn't been a relevant lore thing for a while, but Thedas is greatly isolated from any other possible continent. All expeditions outside of its bounds were unsucessful and the expeditions TO Thedas can be counted on one hand so far. It could be completely normal if we think people from Thedas haven't grasped the technology necessary to sail across the sea, but it also could be.. "voluntary"? The isolation of Thedas could serve for something. Whether to keep something IN Thedas or OUT of it. We don't have enough informations about it for now, but the growing relevance of groups outside of Thedas might bring new information some day. Sorry for the big comment, but these ideas have been bouncing around in my head since I finished the game and I feel like i'm going insane over it!
@@districtstitcher I'm going insane over Vorgoth. To me, I wonder if Vorgoth is an observer for the Executors. Someone on the inside that watch how things unfold in Thedas.
I love how much thought went into what you wrote. The whole thing for me is like wondering if this ties in somehow with a time magic loop or something. The word “guided” makes me think back on the Dorian quest where all the red lyrium had been used in inquisition, and they went into the future like a year or something. This is obviously a long shot and I think what you said makes way more sense. But what if they’re trying to “correct” something that had happened counter to what they wanted originally? Just some weird thoughts. But yeah I thought about Virgoth being connected somehow as well because of the design of the character and some of the clues you mentioned. There’s just so many unanswered questions
The beyond the sea thing, I don't actually think is a reference to JUST being beyond the "sea". I think if you've been paying attention to the series (and the series has been hinting at this since the first game), none of this should really come as a surprise. The ramping up to this scene may seem to many as new, but it is absolutely not. And I am not just talking about the late game war board quest with the "executors". While that was the first clearly overt hint at these new actors. For those of you out there who are completionists, There has been something peculiar about a few side quests you've had all through the series, in fact, it has been one in each game like clockwork. And something has struck me as odd about them, and how understated they have been in the game, until Veilguard. If you don't want to know more, turn away now: Dragon Age Origins: The Unbound questline, culminating in the fight with the first ancient demon, one of the forbidden ones the Gaxkang. Before that encounter, he makes it clear that there are people watching the Warden that he doesn't know about. Dragon Age 2: It is interesting that the first mention of the Executors in the whole series is in the Hard in Hightown novels related quest on the board in inquisition. Also interesting that Bartrand is one of the people who they apparently influenced in finding the idol. Also interesting is that if you complete the "forbidden knowledge" questline, you have to face Xebenkeck, the second forbidden one. The tomes you have to get in order to get this fight, are in peculiar places. Places of power like the chantry and the Viscounts keep in Kirkwall. And then Sundermount, the bone pit (where you fight the dragon in act 3, which is very interesting and I'll go over in the Veilguard part), then the wounded coast, and dark town. Dragon Age Inquisition: I wont go over the war table operation since most have already dealt with it and know about that. The more interesting part is that Imshael, the 3rd forbidden one you fight. Not really much here in terms of the context of this fight, but it follows the trend that another forbidden one is involved in the path of the protagonist, but not necessarily acting on behalf of the antagonist. Dragon Age Veilguard: Alright we all know about the secret ending, especially if you're here. We all know the markings on the Inquisition camps etc. And the responses we get from what are basically scrying spheres. The locations are of note. The Heart of corruption dragon fight, the Arlathan forest, where not only does the solas ritual take place, but also where Elgar'nan conducts his ritual to raise his dragon. The 3rd, is, well we return to the forbidden ones, and this time its the final ancient demon, the Formless One in the shape of a high dragon. Once you defeat him, you will find an orb in a nook near the battlefield. There is a trend here. When I first played Dragon Age Origins, this quest of the Gaxkang unnerved me. It didn't really seem to be part of the game. The codex entries, the dialogue between you and the gaxkang before the confrontation, it all seemed to just drop out of the sky. Same with the other encounters. They all seemed to be part of something larger, and didnt follow the narrative thread laid out in the series so far. When you watch the post credit scene, one thing REALLY stuck out, which for me connects all of encounters and vague quests. When we see the voice say "We have balanced", the tapestry is of the Tevinter mages entering the fade using blood magic. And then two clocked figures show up behind them. Here is the entry of the lore behind the Forbidden Ones in Dragon Age wiki: “The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones-Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born.” ―Unknown author The use of the phrase "balanced" was curious for me. What would 'balace' have to do with this? Surely, they would want to chaos. Unless you look at it from a POV of, balance of POWER. We now know that the Elves were spirits in the fade before they inhabited a physical form. We also know that the Evenuris are avatars of certain traits: Elghar'nan is venegnce, Mythal is justice, Solas is Pride, etc. What if the Forbidden ones were clashing with these "spirits" in the fade before they became physical manifestations? What if as Imshael stated, he is a "choice spirit"? And their worshippers are these mysterious ones who have seen the power of the rival spirits gain dominance in Thedas. Since then they have sought to stop/curtail their influence. In Conclusion, there was clearly a plan here. And I would not get caught up in the whole "Across the Sea" thing very much, Dragon Age has often used the double meaning of words to mislead us. I think we have already faced these potential actors in the series playing as various protagonists, we just dont know it yet. The mention of "Sea" could very well mean the vastness of the Fade, as much as it could any physical geographical sea on the map. EDIT: I would also like to point out that the one common thread in the series, an obvious one, is that it is the Dragon Age in Thedas. We have been fighting a LOT of dragons all through the series. Flemth, the High Dragon near Andraste's Ashes, The High Dragon in Act 3 in the bone pit, the dozen dragons we fight in Inquisition, and then obviously the dragons we fight in Veilguard...If these Executors are worried about Dragons, it would make sense for them to seek the destruction of the blighted dragons who were the thrall of the Evenuris, along with the Evenuris themselves. And that the examples of peculiar things we found in the series, revolve in and around dragon sightings, fights...
Something that I found that I haven't seen anyone discuss is in Bellara's last quest: The Forest of Whispers while you are completing the rites (and if you keep the Archive) she will say: "A third we grant to the stars, a speak your life to the firmament" "A third we grant to the sea, to carry you to distant shores" "And a third we return to the infinite, to find their way to the sanctum of the eternal" This is different from the rites if you free the Archive as the Archive taught Bellara how to conduct the rites properly. Bellara will mention that she doesn't know if she is doing this properly and that the intent is supposed to be there for this to work properly. The second line, she will comment how her brother always wanted to travel across the seas passed Par Vollen and questioned if the Evanuris have ever been outside of Thedas.
beyond them seeing time in a non-linear manner, i also get the vibe that TATS/Executors are somehow aware of us as players making choices. many lines seem to reference the many quantum worldstates: "witness how fractured their actions" "potential splinters cause a storm" "contact with the deciders" "We will serve their unification" the storm will bring fractured worldstates together? The storm was created due to how varied these splintered worldstates are and how that complicates developing the games? There's also a literal mention of the fourth wall (although its as a series of walls so i know its not the same lol) I'm also getting the feeling that them being across the sea isnt literal, at least not entirely. The line "we are still too far across the sea of potential" in particular stood out to me. maybe the reason they have the executors guiding events to to lead to the possibility of TATS being created since they dont technically exist in the world of thedas yet. (also reminds me of the aliens from the movie Arrival) all in all i'm getting a lot of similarities to the 'whispers' of FF7 remake where they seem to literally be a comment on making a remake or making a sequel to a previous game.
The bit from the tablet in Taash's quest saying not to trust messages unless they're revelaed by dragon fire has me thinking too. Are the Excutors or those across the sea unable to weild fire? Maybe weak to it? It would explain why the qunari ancestors specifically wanted to create adaari as fighters. And would be one of many reasons why the Evanuris chose to bind themselves to dragons specifically
While I know you wont like this and we know his powers are likely the same as Harding's I think its worth mentioning the strange way the executors talk is VERY similar to how Sandal talks on multiple occasions especially his monologue that seemed to predict the veil coming down. Also worth noting we still have no context on the old woman he saw looking over him when he slept or how the room he was found in has been compared to the room in the Horror of Hormak already. Also with regards to Ghil I found it interesting that the beasts of the sea that it sounded like Solas convinced her to leave alive despite that seeming like an odd choice for him could end up being important with those across the sea being an issue. No sign of sea monsters despite how many of us thought we might see them in the Rivain sections I do wonder if those creatures if they still exist at all were spared specifically as a defense for what could come from across the sea.
There's a line from iron bull that ties into Taash's quest lines. He says that they were the kossith, but our histories are unclear, we had to leave. But I don't think we look much like them. Unless there is further knowledge about where the kossith actually came from and what converted them to the dragon infused qunari is also not elaborated on outside of corypheus claiming their race is a mistake. Dunno if any of that ties into the people across the sea or not. But it's as unexplained.
Do we think that somehow Vorgoth is or is related to the executors? The game files state "Vorgoth is deep-voiced, solemn, and imposing. They're a member of the Mourn Watch, an elite group of necromancers from the kingdom of Nevarra. But what Vorgoth is exactly--their species, age, gender, whether or not they're alive -- is a mystery, shrouded and masked in a cloak. Vorgoth clearly has supernatural powers, however. Even their voice has an otherworldly echo". Vorgoth's description at least to me matches the Tevinter nights description of " the voice from the executor could have been male or female, young or old. it was less a voice than the idea of the voice". Plus their character design seems to be similar from what you data mined.
My thought is he's either an executor hiding in plain site or they simply reused the asset for another purpose when they cut them from actually appearing in the game and thought the mournwatch would be a great place for it. I guess that will be seen in the future.
I don't know that they necessarily implied Loghain and Batrand were manipulated into being evil. I interpreted it as them choosing that path themselves, and the Executors were sort of helping them along behind the scenes. Guided along the path, not put on to it. Edit: Wrote that before I saw all the stuff from Epler, and it seems he said basically the same thing 😅
Bartrand wasn't evil more like asshole he didn't intentionally left them to die but as soon he touch Red Lyrium he was corrupted and twisted the songs he hears in his head controls it.
Loghain abandoning the wardens at Ostagar though was the objectively correct choice to make when the battle was lost. It doesn’t even net you any points if you try and argue during the Landsmeet. It’s only his later actions that were terrible.
FOOOOOOOD!!! because it wasn't mentioned in the vid, another thing from the game files: the executor thing (The Visitor) looks like it was a cut mini boss with what looked like it was three stages? one in weisshaupt and the last one on tearstone island. Trying to find the second one again but I'm struggling to find which asset in the gamefiles references these specific locations again. Also don't know what document that text is in but it's interesting that it's formatted differently? would be really cool if someone put it in there on purpose because they knew there would be datamining happening
@@shaym.1372 I'm not sure how to best explain it but basically you can use frostbite modding tools (like Frosty / FrostyEditor) to look in the game file - not sure if anybody's exported anything and organised it
31:35 - I’m not sure if that’s the right kind of “sublimation.” Sublimation can also refer to diverting or channeling something. I usually hear about it in terms of psychology like “sublimating your feelings of grief into making art” or things of that nature. So it could be that the Executors are having their power/that of TATS diverted or they are the ones diverting power/magic in Thedas or something to that effect. I think this might be it because they are threatened by Solas’s actions, and Sandal’s prophesy mentions returning the magic to everyone, so if they feed on magic or use it for something, they would be threatened by everyone having access to it, maybe?
Can't say I *love* the implications of that secret ending, but it's one of those things that's VERY easy to retcon or recontextualise And let's look on the bright side, maybe it's an opportunity for the warden commander to be semi relevant again lol! Edit- I am stupid, i have for some reason believed the warden went eastward instead of eastward, the warden has nothing to do with the executors, mb
Ferelden was obliterated in this game but the idea of Those Across the Sea coming to invade and starting with a vulnerable Ferelden has good story opportunities.
@itzhen7032 my Warden Commander Queen is immortal as far as I'm concerned. The next game could be set 50 years in the future and I'm still going to be holding out hope she's relevant lmao
@@mickeyveach3612 We know the Warden if survived tried to make contact them, and travel over seas to stop the calling, thats why im thinking whatever the warden found could be relevant
While the initial presentation of those across the sea being involved the whole time is an divisive revelation, they really could go in any direction with that so I wonder how they'll land it.
The blight changed, there’s other voices beneath the gods. I’d venture a guess and say it’s those across the sea, manipulating things through the blight now
I don’t think we should be worried about some Illuminati forces influencing the events of previous games. What I take from this is that the Executors are not influencing directly, they are more likely observers waiting for the moment they could reveal themselves to do whatever the hell they are planning. Or maybe they even feed somehow on the previous choices made in Thedas or are formed (?) by them. I’m excited. Also, is Vorgoth an Executor (more likely not but the description fits?) or some other being?
I'm so glad you tied in Taash's personal quest and Yavana's comments from the comics! Those ideas have been swirling in my head too. I am curious *how* Loghain was influenced in all this. Bartrand was noticeably effected by the Red Lyrium Idol and Cory was Corrupted by breaching the Veil; this could have tied back to The Blight and therefore Titans, if not for Loghain. Unblighted Dog Lord, did something whisper to you in dreams? Veilguard; not even a month old and already getting theory videos ❤ I'm so excited
YAY NEW GHIL VIDEO :D Some thoughts and theories How does Nunael/the Healer fit in to this? It would be weird to introduce this named Evanuris traitor. And from the codex where we get there named we know they are "executed" in flame which feels specific and relevant. My best guess is maybe this person went on to create the Adaari? Is this why in Horror of Hormak we see the Healer change, how Nunael's position was replaced by Ghilan'nain? So many thoughts here... Another thought with the executors, they use collective "we" when talking about themselves. This immediately makes me think of Titans, and specifically in one of the Solas regrets/murals there is one Titan that does not have a "tranquility" marking. Does this mean that (at least) one Titan got away? The Executors also talk out of order which reminds me of Valta's notes on the Sha-Brytol and how she can't keep track of it is past present or future. Now for the blight, we now know that it came from/is the severed dreams of the Titans. (The "pain and anger" that Solas mentions in his regret also made me think of what we know on blood magic being proportionately strong to the suffering it causes) The Grey Wardens (and possibly those in Kal-Sharok) are blighted, by a Joining (the word choice feels more important now) and they will later hear a Calling. They hear whispers and other voices through the blight, do the executors have the ability to communicate through it? It could help explain how the executors have "influenced" outcomes in Thedas. I think the two companions who can "die" also might have something to do with TATS, we have Davrin who has the blight in his blood (and Assan who Ghilan'nain thinks some other being may have created and hates the blight) or Harding who is connected to the Stone. It seems too specific that it's these two who are the possible sacrificed, there's gotta be something here. Still trying to find the forest, it's hard when you're just a caterpillar on a leaf. Fen'Harel enansal Ghil Dirthalen.
GHIL VEILGUARD LORE VIDEO ‼️‼️‼️ Very excited, I've been looking forward to this for weeks ❤ Alright coming back after watching the video to say that I loved this. Really interesting point about Loghain and Bartrand taking up entire rings. It would imply importance vs the events shown in orbs, but arguably...the Magisters breaking into the Fade must be considered a larger event than Bartrand stealing the idol, no? So the meaning behind that art choice is so strange. Is it because Loghain and Bartrand weren't involved in the Fade, so they don't get their veil bubble around the image? But then Cailan is in a Fade bubble...was he some kind of magical sacrifice, dragons blood and all that? Idk. More questions than answers.
I didn't even know that people from thedas were unable to travel across the sea. Ps: Those across the sea appear to be very much inspired in "lovecraftian" mythos
I think they can, it's usually just running into Rivaini pirates, sea monsters (real), Qunari dreadnaughts, or never returning. Dreadnaughts are the biggest ships we see, so I don't think Thedas has big, multi-mast cargo frigates yet. More like adapted river boats.
If dragons were thought extinct until the end of the Blessed Age, and the proto-Qunari across the sea interacted with dragons somehow. Does that mean that when the dragons came back, they did so from across the sea? Not sure it would be interesting or anything, but I thought it was worth mentioning that at least we know they're aware of dragons.
I'm getting hive mind vibes from the executors. Prehaps they aren't individual people but a poweful being spreading itself out through bodies. Maybe that's why it's so stilted, the executor bodies are drawing from such extensive knowledge from the hive mind? Either way, there's certainly a cosmic horror theme at play which I absolutely love.
There is also a bit of ambient dialogue in Docktown where we get to see the Executors work in action. There are these two guards stationed next to the Lamplighter who are constantly talking about conspiracy theories and what-not. IIRC, one is super conspiratorial and the other is a skeptic. After exhausting all of their ambient dialogue, the conspiratorial guard will ask if the skeptic believes in the Scaled Ones or the Executors, but before they can finish their dialogue both guards just up and vanish. I tried to see if it was a glitch or something, but after reloading Docktown numerous times I could never find them again. I'm convinced the two guards got got like the guys at the Nevarran outposts.
It weirdly does! Enough that I had people asking me why the evnauris were controlling people from their prison, and that's how I found out about the glitch, haha!
I got that cutscene on my first playthrough and then was later baffled why no one was talking about Loghain and Bartrand (and Meredith and Corypheus) being revealed as puppets of the Evanuris…
i feel like maybe they're the Forgotten ones. Also wanted to bring up that Anaris is the only (I think) nondragon enemy that gets a DEFEATED banner. Anaris is also voiced by Mercer (but who in this game isn't) and his get up with the robes and mask is similar (but not really the same) as the images of Executors we get. All that said I have no effing clue.
Honestly Anaris's inclusion is weird to me. He's a whole Forgotten One and nobody seems to care much and it's that kind of uncanny "this response does not fit the gravity of the situation" It feels like he was thrown in haphazardly. Up to now we didn't know what the Forgotten Ones were, with theories ranging from the archdemons to the Titans to something totally unknown, and then here one is, just.... an elf, I guess? Just a bootleg Evanuris, with no mention of Solas or why he was considered one or why he imprisoned them in myth too or where they've been or how exactly he's here now. Very underwhelming and I feel like he could be replaced with any old evil blood mage and we would have lost nothing
In a way "Truth is a killer of Excitement".😥 Forgotten ones: Before VG - something awesome and mysteries with great possibilities. After VG - Ah, they just elves who were kicked out from the Evanures club, and now they salted and ignored.
He wasn't as much an elf as a spirit of the original spirits the elves were - as the Evanuris fought to have bodies from the Titan's bodies, Anaris and the forgotten ones fought to have the elves remain bodieless and pure, as spirits and demons 🙏
It would explain why they had him in the game. We know next to nothing about them and why they are “forgotten”. I personally think it’s a splinter group that fled across the ocean to escape rule by the Evanuris. Maybe they met something over there similar to the blight that changed them. Would be interesting to explore.
@@LinneaRisingerif that’s the case, he wouldn’t want a physical body. That was the entire point of why he manipulated Cyrian. He wanted his physical body back.
The description of the executors, especially with reference to the 'sublimation' reminds me of that entity in the Necropolis Halls... the one that sells you merch...
Things we know: Humans are from outside of Thedas Qunari/Kossith are from outside of Thedas (Devouring Storm) Dwarves exist outside of Thedas (Laysh) The Evanuris, Qun, and Magister Sidereal are all aware of "Those Across the Sea" People from Thedas have found empty continents outside of Thedas People from Thedas that found "Those Across the Sea" have joined them "Those Across the Sea" were watching the breach/knew about Corypheus The executors can be contacted and have spies all around Thedas (Inquisition/Tevinter Nights) Sounds like "Those Across the Sea" have been known since ancient Elvhenan, but have more or less been quiet and have started to appear more active since Inquisition
This was so exhaustive, thank you!! The secret ending didn’t bother me that much, but I can definitely see what you’re saying about it not setting TATS up as very relatable or nuanced antagonists. I’m still hopeful that further information will make them more intriguing (and hopeful that it won’t take ten more years to find out 🫠)
To Epler's notes, I don't think it's going to go incredibly deep. This feels like a way to link past and present, possibly with feedback around closure and DAV feeling like a "reboot" to some. Something to ground the new villains in the familiar. I hope the icons they showed are for accessibility, and the actual people are these deep cut characters. Inky's South report absolutely nods to the idea that the Game isn't the only important thing happening during its time. Adding that feeling to past entries may feel like hand-holding, but it helps the "every entry is someone's first" sales tactic. Thank you for giving me fodder to talk about and loving the return to form!
My view of the Executors is much more ‘long-running foreign espionage operation’ (with some fantasy flair) as opposed to ‘evil Illuminati that were secretly behind every bad thing to happen ever.’ The former is much more relatable (unfortunately). I really liked the idea of using other characters besides Loghain, though. The Architect or someone like Gaspard du Chalons would have served the same purpose. Ultimately, though, I’m excited to see your thoughts on the rest of the lore and I really hope the general vitriol towards this game doesn’t discourage you.
There is also a note in Dock Town at the paper vender area where you meet the guy from the Threads. It mentions markings that no one can identify. There was more to the note, but I can't remember rn lol. Worth looking into.
So the first time I saw the cutscene my mind didn’t jump to the executors. Instead the beginning of the voiceover, about Ghilan’nain being quelled, Elgar’nan dimmed and Solas defanged straightaway reminded me of the codex entry in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC - Geldauran’s Claim. “Let Andruil’s bow crack, let June’s fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.” Geldauran is another forgotten one, mentioned in a different codex entry along with Anaris. So I think Geldauran might be involved with what’s happening across the sea. Also having re-read the entry before typing this, the rest of the codex entry is also really interesting in the context of the choices of the magisters sidereal, Loghain, Bartrand, Meredith and Corypheus, all of whom in one way or another pursued power for themselves.
I desperately wanted to ask Solas about the Forgotten Ones as soon as Anaris was mentioned. The game seems to deliberately not let you do that even after completing Bellara’s questline. There’s definitely more mystery to uncover with them.
Don't know if you'll see that, or even if you talk about it later in the vid but if i don't type it know i'll forget. You talk about how in then ending scene the Executors symbols seems tagged on circle carved with writings from another culture : is it me, or are those writings very similar to those of the Qunari tablet Taash's holding ? Anyhow thanks for the vid, glad we can go back to building theories upon theories upon theories !
Very interesting! I took the rocky masks these creatures were wearing as an indication that they were somehow connected to Titans, maybe a manifestation of Titans' souls that were cut off by Solas? That would explain why they wanted to get rid of Evanuris and Solas before making their move I guess? And Veilguard does mention that if we were to ever return Titan's souls/minds into their bodies, we would have to heal them first, as they were driven mad...I dunno, maybe it's not that though.
For me this is all very loftcraftian. all hail to the old gods? Dagon, Cthulhu, the King in Yellow/Hastur, Nyarlatothep. Shub Niggurath, Azatoth etc pp.
I’m gonna reserve judgment until we learn more about the next game. Cause with how well it’s done, and now that BioWare is going full steam ahead on the next mass effect, we unfortunately won’t find out about what exactly the executors are for a while, so we’ll just have to wait and see what exactly their role is if they haven’t been manipulating events in the series
With regards to the connection to Ghilan'nain, I wonder if TATS have something to do with the 'Giants of the Sea" from her DAI codex entry: "On the second day she drowned the giants of the sea, except those in deep waters, for they were too well-wrought, and Pride stopped her hand." On the first day she "struck down the monsters of the air" which also might have a connection with dragons. Did Ghil *create* TATS? Or have something to do with awakening or discovering them?
I think the point about the executors is probably true, it just makes sense with that name. This is actually a great deal more interesting than I had initially thought and might be tied to some other, very interesting lore questions we've had for years. I'm not super jazzed about the loghain stuff, but it depends how light a hand they had in it.
So something that my partner and I were discussing the other day is that Thedas seems to be progressing......really slowly....like from a societal and technology standpoint. We don't see a lot of differences between what is described as modern life and what it was like in say the Storm Age or any other point since the founding of the Chantry. This could just be bc its a fantasy game and they are usually set in and around the Renaissance but, To draw from real world history a bit, we've clearly invented the printing press and SOME countries in Thedas have a fairly high rate of literacy (as seen by the existence of Newspapers in Minrathous and that Varric can be a famous published author). In the real world, this, along with the discovery and import of coffee and tea, was one of the many factors kicked off the Renaissance. We have........most of those factors going and yet.....we aren't...Renaissance-ing. SOMETHING is keeping their thumb on the scale and that is what my husband and I think the Executors are. There seems to be some kind of barrier in the eastern ocean that keeps people from leaving. SOMETHING is keeping Thedas contained and keeping it from advancing and while I'm not sure what exactly making Loghain betray everyone did, having Bartrand retrieve the dagger set the events in motion to get rid of the elven gods for good. Something that they seem to have been aiming for??? Loose thoughts and we don't know enough to guess WHY they want Thedas contained and stagnant but might be something? All of that aside, one thing is clear: Whatever it is that the Qunari were running from all these years is coming.
I wonder if the qunari are even more tied to those across the sea, as the whole race has been hinted at being created multiple times now. Corypheus tells an Adaar inquisitor that her race was a mistake, AND Mythal will mention to a qunari Rook that in her time, qunari did not yet exist. I know it has been a popular fan theory that Ghil created qunari, but that doesn't seem to be the case with what Mythal is saying in Veilguard.
Iron Bull mentions that the Qunari of their homeland looked and were different than the Qunari today, so maybe they were subjected to the goop? Maybe they also changed to look more like dragons when they tried to make the adaari? Also there's that theory that the Veil only covers Thedas, right? Wasn't there something about people coming back mad from their voyages to try and find Amaranthine? I wonder if they're interested in Solas because of him trying to tear down the veil, or just because he's also ancient elvhen? Maybe there is something about Thedas potentially existing in a literal bubble lol that is interesting to them? Also also LOL i'm happy that I found all of those codex entries and somewhat pieced that stuff together too :^)
The secret ending has me conflicted but I'm cautiously optimistic, emphasis on cautious. My own theory is that Loghain acted on his own, and the Executors rather had something to do with the whole Cailan wanting to marry Celene, same for Bartrand but that the Executors provided the map to the Primeval Thaig, and so on. Epler wouldn't have used that code to clarify the wording if that wasn't the case.
i'm also interested in what the executors did not mention: Morrigan, who has the knowledge of myhtal and her essence. Mythal herself. they reference solas, elgar'nan and ghilan'nain. also flemeth is shown, so they could have been manipulating or influencing flemeth. not myhtal herself. because it seems to me that they wanted the evanuris to be gone, but they didn't attempt to manipulate them. maybe they never couldn't. i'm just saying mythal (oversimplyfying things) is now a mini statue (rook says they never have felt anything more alive when they touch it) and also she lives on in morrigan. they also don't say a word about the titans. Interestingly enough, the robes mythal wears, the skin, when you get it, is called watcher's robes. which is what the executors have been doing. mythal has been doing that all this time too. is there a connection? i have no clue. it just seems odd to me that they gave mythal of all people a random armor that happens to be called that. I may be reaching lol. But when I replay the series i am going to be suspicious of every triangle i see, i am now traumatize by triangles. i may be completely wrong, i just finished the game and my brain hasn't processed all the details just yet. I need a few days lol. so apologies if any of this sounds completely stupid. i just wanted to share my thoughts :)
I can kind of understand feeling disappointed about the implications for about some characters' actions, but Bartrand was already implied to not be operating entirely of his own volition, via the red lyrium.
I think the Devouring Storm is the Abyss from Elvish mythology. The ancient elves were a magic based society. So it makes sense that they would consider a substance or location that just eats magic as being an abyss. We know that the Forgotten Ones are associated with the abyss and we have a record of Anaris discovering the material of the devouring storm giving a direct connection between the Forgotten Ones and the Devouring Storm. And that combines well with him trying to escape the eye (of the Devouring Storm) since the Forgotten Ones are said to have been sealed in the Abyss. Also I would throw out that the "she has weapons" line might be referring to Andruil. We all know the myth about Andruil donning armor made of the void (and weapons of darkness). In DAV, the party speculates that that story is about armor made of the Blight, but that doesn't actually fit the story. The armor is made of the Abyss/Void, which was the home of the Forgotten Ones. She acquired the Abyss/Void while hunting them (or maybe got the idea of using it from her hunts of them). There is nothing indicating that the Forgotten Ones ever stole the Blight from the Evanuris. Now according to the story, Mythal was the one who beat down Andruil and saved her from the armor. Mythal is known for turning into a giant dragon. As noted in the video, what did the Qunari do to respond to the Devouring Storm? Gave themselves the ability to breathe dragon fire. So that story makes a lot more sense if Andruil was taken over by the Devouring Storm and Mythal was able to free her using dragon fire. That could also explain where Ghilan'nain gained her knowledge of the Devouring Storm, she was looking for information about the thing that hurt her lover and possibly delved too deep.
Not sure if it’s grasping for straws but I’ve been wondering if it’s possible the storm has something to do with the origin of spirits being able to turn into demons. Anaris whining about being sent back to the storm reads a little similar to the demon possessing the dragon raging about being sent back to the fade. Also the final codex entry for The Warden Grey quest where Grey implies the purpose of the Qunari may be to stand against demon (or he was just saying some cool shit could go either way). It would maybe do some to explain why the Qun is so structured around making sure it’s people to have a set lot in life where they would not give into the temptation of something demon related.
There is something going on with the Forbidden Ones here too. They are constantly talking about “getting back” in this game. I’m just confused because this First Expedition is so old, but Corypheus also somehow knows the Qunari are a failed experiment? Corypheus is not that old. Did he learn it #inthefade?😭
Part of me wonders if that unknown substance is related to the void? Like the same stuff that Andruil put on as armor. I dont think DAV really covered that or directly connected it to the blight unless it did and I just didnt register it.
Bellara (I think) connected that story to Andruil being corrupted with the Blight, but she was just speculating. There was nothing definitive on try ‘Void’ from what I’ve seen.
Wait...it's secret?! I got it on my first playthrough thinking everyone had gotten it like a Marvel movie and not paying attention to those circles at all. 😂
LORE VIDEO, LFGGGGG I am.... tentative about the Extra Scene, even with Epler's reassurances. It will all depend on how it's implemented, I am willing to wait to find out but for now I'm being a hater about this :(( (like, a light hater, lmao - im not gonna go around bashing this when I don't know anything about it.). I agree with you that Loghain and Bartrand are just too exemplary of the core of DA and the ramifications of their actions are just excellent when you observe it through the lens of their humanity. Loghain being a paranoid weirdo (affectionate) about Orlais unfolds to give us DAO and even affects the macro politics of the setting because it leads to Cailan's death. Bartrand kickstarts the whole Red Lyrium arc, his greed and ignorance providing the springboard that right now might as well define the setting - and more than that, his actions contextualise Varric's. Everything Varric does, in context to Bertrand is heartbreaking and poignant and meaningful - I'm not saying that this potential angle diminishes those things, but.... they might start to ring a hollow. Have to say tho, of all the main conflicts we've seen the Orlesian Civil War not being one of the things they influenced is very funny to me, Orlais keeping its "Terrible People Doing Terrible Things" status is so on brand lmao. Not sure of it is relevant, but the Candlehops thingies feel like it could be the executors too. Mysterious, helpful to the protag as they were in Inquisition, based in Tevinter who seems to have an history with the Those Across The Sea/Executors. The format of the Executors Poem does remind me of the Chant of Light, as does the content of it - relatively religious - but frankly, it's more likely a stretch.
I think there is one more reference to the Executors in the Sharkmouth volcano. The Grey Warden keep has statues all around it that have big circular halos with smaller circles in them. It could just be normal statue halos but with so many other references to circles in the game I wouldn't discard them completely. I also think the Executors might be the same as the snake people that are mentioned once or twice. They talk with a bit of a hiss often used by actors doing a 'snake voice', all the circles could be like the ouroboros symbol and the symbol of the two lines almost looks like a stylised snake eye.
Perhaps the "weapon" attached to the arch magister's is more important than we think? Maybe it wasn't the gods being taken out that made them say "Okay now its time", but the weapon becoming inoperable after the battle? We don't know what exactly it is, but if it was made to fight them... Maybe it has a similar effect as dragonfire? If its possible, what would that mean? Perhaps their weakness really is dragonfire. An abundance of dragons might keep them away. The Palace (a floating fortress that creates a similar affect, but without the risk of taming a dragon) would be a mobile tank fortress. Because the question is: If they were involved in those events, why? What's to gain? The common factor is chaos. Blights and war have the chance to topple nations without TATS being directly involved. It might be less that the Executors have been behind everything all along.... and more that they've been throwing rocks at a bear, in the hopes that it will wake up and break the scary gun on the wall. After six blights and centuries of war, the gun they were scared of looks broken enough (though still afloat). And all the dragons got hunted off (they're coming back). And the Qunari have lost their firebreathers (Not quite) Again, tinfoil hat, but IF THATS THE CASE, then we have enough weak points for TATS to say "Oh good enough to invade", and enough situations for a hero to run around and rally. Fix the war palace, tame a dragon, befriend the Qunari, ect. Also Morrigan stays relevant, love that for her.
1. As a fellow Okie - hell yeah. 2. For no reason whatsoever, I'm wondering if the at the eye of the storm there's a dragon. One that would make Lusacan look small. Maybe even the first dragon? 3. I wonder if the storm itself is actually another prison, since Bioware/DA seem to love magical prisons.
As a big fan of Stolen Throne, this actually fixes a discrepency i have because i thought Origins completely assassinated Loghain's character. The idea of the executors were the reason hes such a cartoon villain makes it more digestible to me.
Thank you! I always feel so alone with the opinion that Origins did Loghain absurdly dirty. Yes, sure, trauma can do some serious damage to a person. But nothing we learn about Loghain's life between Stolen Throne and Origins has ever justified this extreme shift to me. I always cringe hard when people somehow talk about Loghain being a complex villain in Origins because he always felt laughably arrogant, delusional and stupid to me. Like, almost Corypheus levels of all three. That is not the same brilliant man I loved reading about in Stolen Throne.
Very interesting video! I think they clearly have more ideas for another Dragon Age game and maybe even David Gaider knows it,who knows lol The important thing in my opinion is how these ideas and theories are articulated and enriched by devs/Bio writers,we really know very little to judge
I wasn't going to watch this at first, but I'm so far away from the end, I thought, "What the hell?" I'm enjoying the game a lot, but the new combat system is giving me fits. My warrior seems to be made of glass.
wHAT how did i miss all of this 💀 I remember the chalk stuff in Inquisition and i know i followed through with all of them at the table, but i for some reason never thought too deeply about this. Very interesting! I need to get into the lore deeper.
I also wondered with all the references to an incoming storm is that the letters you get from inky bring up feeling like something is coming and I believe one of them was even titled something to do with a storm. I don't see how there'd be a connection past possibly the inquisition having further contact post DA:I maybe? but the wording in the letters stuck out to me.
37:38 if true, imagine in Dragon Age 5 where in order to defeat the TATS, you have to bring the Blight back. Could make for a big "holy shit" Act 3 twist.
Playing through origins right now this afternoon Playing through the haunted Orphanage where the huge foreshadowing of the golden city plot thread was ilhinted at Give John Epler and the team my condolences ok??
Ugh, these thoughts make my brain hurt xD The symbol looks like a tornado and an eye, or a funnel and a symbol for vigilance. Green is also the color of the Fade, of formless thoughts taking shape because they watch Thedas, becoming spirits. Solas split the Fade from the Waking World, are these displaced spirits wanting to return? Is this the actual sea or a spiritual plane, or is it about the waves? Small storms were ended, feeding the main one; small rifts closed which focusses the stress/breaking point in to a single point. Those with the power of dragonblood can see them, hurt them. Those that are now the Qunari fed deliberately on dragonblood to become what they are now, to be strong enough to withstand and escape south. But not all escaped south, some still fight back where they came from. Did the Veil cover all of Thedas or were their homelands suddenly flooded with displaced entities, waves rippling away from the mainland, a sea of space and time between the entities and where they began.. It speaks of walls and cracks in it, a wounded sky. Is DA5 going to be about finally doing something about the Veil and the disbalance it brought to the world, or is this an even older conflict that has decided to bide their time until it was time to strike? (wait, wasn't there a forgotten one who said he'd come back when the time was right? Daernthal?) Was the war the Evanuris fought really with the Titans, or did they just slay the Titans to get more bodies for their war after they figured out that their spirit forms were too weak? Was the first war in spirit form against these entities? Or maybe the Evanuris created these entities (from the enemies/belief/gods line in the 'poem'). Or maybe Ghilan'nain took their ability to sculpt bodies anew. Once they made bodies out of lyrium they were solid, constant, no longer like spirits who were able to shape things to their thoughts. Lots of talk about a floating city as well. If lyrium (and by extension the Blight) is magic made solid, maybe their power was fluid magic and this was disturbed by the war of the Evanuris and/or Solas' creation of the Veil. Veilguard left many questions unanswered. So I hope this means DA5 is about the history of the world, of the Evanuris. And that we finally get a better solution or choice to change the world to a final state; with or without the Veil, aka with or without magic. All games were about the conflict magic brings to mankind, how mages were both feared and oppressed, powerful and enslaved or in power yet corrupt. Maybe our final choice in DA5 would be a world fully without magic, or fully flooded with it.. Ahhh so many thoughts and right before bedtime as well xD There goes my peaceful sleep!
So, speaking as someone who has Loghain as her favourite character in the series (though Emmrich is incredible competition) I'm apprehensive, but won't judge until we see how this is interpreted. An Executor ensuring that a few pieces of information land in Loghain's hands isn't really *that* big of a deal to me? I'm worried of his complexities being pulled apart if they lean too hard, but Loghain is at his core, easily manipulated and swayed. So idunno, wait and see I guess.
Assigning companions to jobs in the last part of the game felt like ME2 imo. Now I'm just worried they'll go full Mass Effect by having the Executors be Reapers (e.g. calling Thedas a fruit that will ripen).
So for Loghain and Bartrend I don't think they where manipulated into doing their actions. For Loghain I think the Executors just nudge him like how Mythal is to have said to nudge history (like when she saves the Warden and Hawke.) For Bartrend I think the Executors where the ones that told him the Primevial Theig and that's it. For the Executors presentation, I feel as if the writiers are trying to do what the MCU did for Thanos. The problem is that Thanos was an already established charecter while the Executors are 100% new.
Oh I would've LOVED a DLC where we go find Harding or Davrin and also that serves as an epilogue or something. I felt like there was something missing after dealing with Solas and it just...abruptly ended. Oh well...
![The Story of Sylvanas Windrunner - Full Version 2024 [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/duYxmUh8Qp0/mqdefault.jpg)
One note: Anaris ABSOLUTELY knows what a Qunari is. If a Qunari Rook fights Anaris, Anaris will deliver a scathing racist rant against them, using the term "Filthy half-breed" to refer to Qunari. Bellara will also note that there's clearly some connection between Anaris and the Devouring Storm in Dialogue with Taash if certain conditions are met. In contrast, Mythal's fragment will note with some bemusement that Qunari didn't exist in her day, so whatever *did* happen there that Anaris is aware of, it was after Mythal's (first) death (timeline-wise).
In the build up of Bellara's questline, I really thought the reveal was going to be that Anaris wasn't trying to make demons, but Qunari. I'm not entirely sure I'm wrong-- the elves did become or summon demons, but Anaris also claims that something went wrong.
I thought the obvious clue was the giant horns he wears.
The lore about what lies beyond the Amaranthine Ocean is surprisingly deep and interconnected with a lot of otherwise unrelated events. The point of entry is Hafter, the legendary Alamarri hero who lead humanity to victory during the Second Blight. After becoming the first Teyrn of Ferelden, he decided to sail East across the sea and was never found. His sword, which he brought with him, was found on the other hand: Yusaris, the Dragonslayer. The sword on the main menu screen of Dragon Age Origins, was found by the Hero of Ferelden after completing the ritual of the Watchguard of the Reaching, a ritual that is eerily reminding of the invasion of the Black City by the Magisters Sidereal. The sword itself was in the hands of the Shah Wyrd, a spirit of considerable power. Before Hafter, this sword was property of Hafter's rumoured father, Dane, another Alamarri legend. Dane found Yusaris in the lair of Fenshal, a Dragon, literally the Bane of Wolves. Dane used this sword to slay the Werewolf, but not before spending "a year and a day all told" with their lives swapped. Dane lived as a wolf, the werewolf lived as a human hunter. Coincidentally, "a year and a day" is the exact wording of the time Andruil wanted Fen'harel to serve in her bed before being interrupted by Anaris in the tale Fen'Harel and the Tree.
There's, of course, more, much more. Dane and Hafter are a rabbit's hole across all games, if you want to dive there.
Speaking of Anaris, there's also his Forgotten Friend, Geldauran. His codex entry (Geldauran's Claim, from Jaws of Hakkon) is very reminiscent of the wording the devs use to describe their intent with the lines uttered by the ???? figure in the post credits scene. It's also extremely ominous.
Honestly I think the Secret Ending would've been liked a lot more if the voice over was like "watched, waited, helped" instead. Establish they aren't manipulating choices, but they are biding their time.
well that is not what Bioware wanted to be the case. They needed to destroy the IP and its story in order to reboot it. Ferelden gets destroyed in the game off screen as well as most of its inhabitants. Therefore all we did in DAO did not matter, since all the characters we meet and save in DAO perish in this game anyway.
@@MrSilz-jb4ik Ferelden and it's inhabitants where not wiped out
I’m not saying they hired Matthew mercer as manfred to cover up him voicing the Executor… buuuuuuuut
he's also Anaris (I'm pretty sure) and the Viper
Well, why now? I would say that because of the death of Evanuris.
The thing holding them back were not the gods themselves, but their Archdemons. They are allegedly weak to the dragon fire and this could be the reason why those dragons had been bonded to the gods - a perfect controllable weapon against the TATS.
Like this take!
To quote Flemeth "mens hearts hold shadows darker than any tainted creature."
"featureless black underneath the hood" makes me think of Vorgoth. I played a Mourn Watcher Rook, and in a conversation with Emmerich, one of them says "no one knows what Vorgoth is"
I thought so too! Emmrich saying that got me thinking
I hope Vorgoth is not an Executor. I more like to think he is the sprit of the very Necropolis itself, kind of like how the Lady o fthe Forest/Witherfang was the spirit of the whole Bracillian forest (At least I think she is, otherwise why the name.)
not to mention the sheer resemblance between vorgoth and the depiction in the secret cutscene
lore mom is back 🗣️🗣️🗣️
While I'll wait to see where this plot twist goes before making a judgement, I hope they go down the route of "a third party across the sea has been observing Thedas this entire time, and now that most threats in Thedas that could have stopped them are gone (blights, titans, Evanuris, Solas) they are now free to act without someone stopping them" rather than the "it was people across the sea all along" while a manipulation plot isn't a bad idea, I feel like most of the plots and lore in Thedas have already been multiple layers of manipulation.
I personally would prefer if it was a third party unrelated to Thedas that now has the ability to invade Thedas because they've been sitting and watching and now that Thedas seems vulnerable, now is the opportunity for them to get involved.
I mean, they left it open to interpretation so people would especulate. Like, your idea was my understanding too, that now they can act because most things that could stop then are gone.
That would be pretty interesting if true. Instead of any level of foul play being had here, we have ourselves an overwhelming force that's just been playing the long game of waiting for their far away enemies to kill or weaken each other enough so that they can move in and dominate the area to achieve their own ends. They simply needed time in their favor to kick things off.
One thing that bugged me about the Executor is- When the launch trailer aired out I saw Vorgoth in one of the scene and went "Wow, he really looks like an executor." Then I completely forgot about it until now. But- He does look like one.
In a conversation with a mournwatcher Rook about Lichdom, Emmrich himself says that "no one knows what Vorgoth is". The mournwatcher should be the best informed people on the matter of spirits. If they don't know what Vorgoth is, it most likely means it's neither spirit nor (un)dead that they know of. I also find that Vorgoth also talk similarly to the Executors of the secret ending, less stilted but it could be explained by his proximity to people.
I wouldn't be surprised if Vorgoth was also an executor hiding in plainsight. But how did he end up in the Mournwatch, how long has he been there and to what end is what i can't figure out..
(It also seem like his model in the gamefiles was named "Executor", it could be a scrapped concept for the Executors that ended up being used for Vorgoth's model and not renamed. But it's.. a weird coincidence if true.)
In a more general note regarding the Executors, I've wondered why the Executors cared about Solas so much in TN and what I came up with was close to what you thought about.
The Executors seem to want Thedas for something and the gods were too much of a danger for them to try it before knowing they were all dealt with. Not only that, but all the things they seem to have influenced HAS fragilized Thedas. The Blight fragilized the ruling of Ferelden, Kirkwall shattered the templar order, the circles and shook the chantry. Inquisiton put the whole world in a tight spot and caused the Antaam to break apart from the Qun. Veilguard has a majority of the world in shamble because of the damage the blight caused. Thedas post Veilguard is in an extremely fragile state because of all that happened in the last 20 years.
When I saw that secret ending I wondered what was the point, but when i sat down and thought about it. To me, it looks like destabilization tactics. Fragilizing all the important structures of nations so that they pose less of a fight when an invasion barges in. Perhaps explaining why Thedas might be referred as a "rotten fruit" ready to be plucked.
I also do wonder if the Executors and those across the sea are linked one way or another to the isolation of Thedas. It hasn't been a relevant lore thing for a while, but Thedas is greatly isolated from any other possible continent. All expeditions outside of its bounds were unsucessful and the expeditions TO Thedas can be counted on one hand so far.
It could be completely normal if we think people from Thedas haven't grasped the technology necessary to sail across the sea, but it also could be.. "voluntary"?
The isolation of Thedas could serve for something. Whether to keep something IN Thedas or OUT of it. We don't have enough informations about it for now, but the growing relevance of groups outside of Thedas might bring new information some day.
Sorry for the big comment, but these ideas have been bouncing around in my head since I finished the game and I feel like i'm going insane over it!
Right?! WHAT IS VORGOTH. I wonder if he could end up being an Executor that broke away, somehow.
@@districtstitcher I'm going insane over Vorgoth. To me, I wonder if Vorgoth is an observer for the Executors. Someone on the inside that watch how things unfold in Thedas.
Don't be sorry for your in depth comment, love it!!
I love how much thought went into what you wrote. The whole thing for me is like wondering if this ties in somehow with a time magic loop or something. The word “guided” makes me think back on the Dorian quest where all the red lyrium had been used in inquisition, and they went into the future like a year or something. This is obviously a long shot and I think what you said makes way more sense. But what if they’re trying to “correct” something that had happened counter to what they wanted originally? Just some weird thoughts. But yeah I thought about Virgoth being connected somehow as well because of the design of the character and some of the clues you mentioned. There’s just so many unanswered questions
@@gabbygirl9600 That is a really good theory. Something happened and they want to correct it but need the right conditions for it...🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Anyone else think the executor skin look suspiciously similar to a certain mournwatcher??
The beyond the sea thing, I don't actually think is a reference to JUST being beyond the "sea". I think if you've been paying attention to the series (and the series has been hinting at this since the first game), none of this should really come as a surprise. The ramping up to this scene may seem to many as new, but it is absolutely not. And I am not just talking about the late game war board quest with the "executors". While that was the first clearly overt hint at these new actors.
For those of you out there who are completionists, There has been something peculiar about a few side quests you've had all through the series, in fact, it has been one in each game like clockwork. And something has struck me as odd about them, and how understated they have been in the game, until Veilguard. If you don't want to know more, turn away now:
Dragon Age Origins: The Unbound questline, culminating in the fight with the first ancient demon, one of the forbidden ones the Gaxkang. Before that encounter, he makes it clear that there are people watching the Warden that he doesn't know about.
Dragon Age 2: It is interesting that the first mention of the Executors in the whole series is in the Hard in Hightown novels related quest on the board in inquisition. Also interesting that Bartrand is one of the people who they apparently influenced in finding the idol. Also interesting is that if you complete the "forbidden knowledge" questline, you have to face Xebenkeck, the second forbidden one. The tomes you have to get in order to get this fight, are in peculiar places. Places of power like the chantry and the Viscounts keep in Kirkwall. And then Sundermount, the bone pit (where you fight the dragon in act 3, which is very interesting and I'll go over in the Veilguard part), then the wounded coast, and dark town.
Dragon Age Inquisition: I wont go over the war table operation since most have already dealt with it and know about that. The more interesting part is that Imshael, the 3rd forbidden one you fight. Not really much here in terms of the context of this fight, but it follows the trend that another forbidden one is involved in the path of the protagonist, but not necessarily acting on behalf of the antagonist.
Dragon Age Veilguard: Alright we all know about the secret ending, especially if you're here. We all know the markings on the Inquisition camps etc. And the responses we get from what are basically scrying spheres. The locations are of note. The Heart of corruption dragon fight, the Arlathan forest, where not only does the solas ritual take place, but also where Elgar'nan conducts his ritual to raise his dragon. The 3rd, is, well we return to the forbidden ones, and this time its the final ancient demon, the Formless One in the shape of a high dragon. Once you defeat him, you will find an orb in a nook near the battlefield.
There is a trend here. When I first played Dragon Age Origins, this quest of the Gaxkang unnerved me. It didn't really seem to be part of the game. The codex entries, the dialogue between you and the gaxkang before the confrontation, it all seemed to just drop out of the sky. Same with the other encounters. They all seemed to be part of something larger, and didnt follow the narrative thread laid out in the series so far. When you watch the post credit scene, one thing REALLY stuck out, which for me connects all of encounters and vague quests. When we see the voice say "We have balanced", the tapestry is of the Tevinter mages entering the fade using blood magic. And then two clocked figures show up behind them. Here is the entry of the lore behind the Forbidden Ones in Dragon Age wiki:
“The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones-Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born.” ―Unknown author
The use of the phrase "balanced" was curious for me. What would 'balace' have to do with this? Surely, they would want to chaos. Unless you look at it from a POV of, balance of POWER. We now know that the Elves were spirits in the fade before they inhabited a physical form. We also know that the Evenuris are avatars of certain traits: Elghar'nan is venegnce, Mythal is justice, Solas is Pride, etc. What if the Forbidden ones were clashing with these "spirits" in the fade before they became physical manifestations? What if as Imshael stated, he is a "choice spirit"? And their worshippers are these mysterious ones who have seen the power of the rival spirits gain dominance in Thedas. Since then they have sought to stop/curtail their influence.
In Conclusion, there was clearly a plan here. And I would not get caught up in the whole "Across the Sea" thing very much, Dragon Age has often used the double meaning of words to mislead us. I think we have already faced these potential actors in the series playing as various protagonists, we just dont know it yet. The mention of "Sea" could very well mean the vastness of the Fade, as much as it could any physical geographical sea on the map.
EDIT: I would also like to point out that the one common thread in the series, an obvious one, is that it is the Dragon Age in Thedas. We have been fighting a LOT of dragons all through the series. Flemth, the High Dragon near Andraste's Ashes, The High Dragon in Act 3 in the bone pit, the dozen dragons we fight in Inquisition, and then obviously the dragons we fight in Veilguard...If these Executors are worried about Dragons, it would make sense for them to seek the destruction of the blighted dragons who were the thrall of the Evenuris, along with the Evenuris themselves. And that the examples of peculiar things we found in the series, revolve in and around dragon sightings, fights...
I am convinced that the 'across the sea' reference is about the Fade, not the literal physical ocean.
Something that I found that I haven't seen anyone discuss is in Bellara's last quest: The Forest of Whispers while you are completing the rites (and if you keep the Archive) she will say:
"A third we grant to the stars, a speak your life to the firmament"
"A third we grant to the sea, to carry you to distant shores"
"And a third we return to the infinite, to find their way to the sanctum of the eternal"
This is different from the rites if you free the Archive as the Archive taught Bellara how to conduct the rites properly. Bellara will mention that she doesn't know if she is doing this properly and that the intent is supposed to be there for this to work properly. The second line, she will comment how her brother always wanted to travel across the seas passed Par Vollen and questioned if the Evanuris have ever been outside of Thedas.
beyond them seeing time in a non-linear manner, i also get the vibe that TATS/Executors are somehow aware of us as players making choices.
many lines seem to reference the many quantum worldstates:
"witness how fractured their actions"
"potential splinters cause a storm"
"contact with the deciders"
"We will serve their unification"
the storm will bring fractured worldstates together? The storm was created due to how varied these splintered worldstates are and how that complicates developing the games?
There's also a literal mention of the fourth wall (although its as a series of walls so i know its not the same lol)
I'm also getting the feeling that them being across the sea isnt literal, at least not entirely.
The line "we are still too far across the sea of potential" in particular stood out to me. maybe the reason they have the executors guiding events to to lead to the possibility of TATS being created since they dont technically exist in the world of thedas yet. (also reminds me of the aliens from the movie Arrival)
all in all i'm getting a lot of similarities to the 'whispers' of FF7 remake where they seem to literally be a comment on making a remake or making a sequel to a previous game.
The bit from the tablet in Taash's quest saying not to trust messages unless they're revelaed by dragon fire has me thinking too. Are the Excutors or those across the sea unable to weild fire? Maybe weak to it? It would explain why the qunari ancestors specifically wanted to create adaari as fighters. And would be one of many reasons why the Evanuris chose to bind themselves to dragons specifically
I find it an odd coincidence that “eye of the storm” could be connected to the symbols we see everywhere with the chantry and the inquisition 😅
Dude you're so right oh my gosh
While I know you wont like this and we know his powers are likely the same as Harding's I think its worth mentioning the strange way the executors talk is VERY similar to how Sandal talks on multiple occasions especially his monologue that seemed to predict the veil coming down. Also worth noting we still have no context on the old woman he saw looking over him when he slept or how the room he was found in has been compared to the room in the Horror of Hormak already.
Also with regards to Ghil I found it interesting that the beasts of the sea that it sounded like Solas convinced her to leave alive despite that seeming like an odd choice for him could end up being important with those across the sea being an issue. No sign of sea monsters despite how many of us thought we might see them in the Rivain sections I do wonder if those creatures if they still exist at all were spared specifically as a defense for what could come from across the sea.
There's a line from iron bull that ties into Taash's quest lines. He says that they were the kossith, but our histories are unclear, we had to leave. But I don't think we look much like them. Unless there is further knowledge about where the kossith actually came from and what converted them to the dragon infused qunari is also not elaborated on outside of corypheus claiming their race is a mistake.
Dunno if any of that ties into the people across the sea or not. But it's as unexplained.
Do we think that somehow Vorgoth is or is related to the executors? The game files state "Vorgoth is deep-voiced, solemn, and imposing. They're a member of the Mourn Watch, an elite group of necromancers from the kingdom of Nevarra. But what Vorgoth is exactly--their species, age, gender, whether or not they're alive -- is a mystery, shrouded and masked in a cloak. Vorgoth clearly has supernatural powers, however. Even their voice has an otherworldly echo". Vorgoth's description at least to me matches the Tevinter nights description of " the voice from the executor could have been male or female, young or old. it was less a voice than the idea of the voice". Plus their character design seems to be similar from what you data mined.
My thought is he's either an executor hiding in plain site or they simply reused the asset for another purpose when they cut them from actually appearing in the game and thought the mournwatch would be a great place for it. I guess that will be seen in the future.
I don't know that they necessarily implied Loghain and Batrand were manipulated into being evil. I interpreted it as them choosing that path themselves, and the Executors were sort of helping them along behind the scenes. Guided along the path, not put on to it.
Edit: Wrote that before I saw all the stuff from Epler, and it seems he said basically the same thing 😅
Epler was doing damage control
Bartrand wasn't evil more like asshole he didn't intentionally left them to die but as soon he touch Red Lyrium he was corrupted and twisted the songs he hears in his head controls it.
Loghain abandoning the wardens at Ostagar though was the objectively correct choice to make when the battle was lost. It doesn’t even net you any points if you try and argue during the Landsmeet.
It’s only his later actions that were terrible.
FOOOOOOOD!!! because it wasn't mentioned in the vid, another thing from the game files: the executor thing (The Visitor) looks like it was a cut mini boss with what looked like it was three stages? one in weisshaupt and the last one on tearstone island. Trying to find the second one again but I'm struggling to find which asset in the gamefiles references these specific locations again.
Also don't know what document that text is in but it's interesting that it's formatted differently? would be really cool if someone put it in there on purpose because they knew there would be datamining happening
Where can one access the datamined files? I'd love to dig into them
@@shaym.1372 I'm not sure how to best explain it but basically you can use frostbite modding tools (like Frosty / FrostyEditor) to look in the game file - not sure if anybody's exported anything and organised it
@@aparaitre Oh thank you! I'll give it a try over the weekend
31:35 - I’m not sure if that’s the right kind of “sublimation.” Sublimation can also refer to diverting or channeling something. I usually hear about it in terms of psychology like “sublimating your feelings of grief into making art” or things of that nature.
So it could be that the Executors are having their power/that of TATS diverted or they are the ones diverting power/magic in Thedas or something to that effect. I think this might be it because they are threatened by Solas’s actions, and Sandal’s prophesy mentions returning the magic to everyone, so if they feed on magic or use it for something, they would be threatened by everyone having access to it, maybe?
Can't say I *love* the implications of that secret ending, but it's one of those things that's VERY easy to retcon or recontextualise
And let's look on the bright side, maybe it's an opportunity for the warden commander to be semi relevant again lol!
Edit- I am stupid, i have for some reason believed the warden went eastward instead of eastward, the warden has nothing to do with the executors, mb
Ferelden was obliterated in this game but the idea of Those Across the Sea coming to invade and starting with a vulnerable Ferelden has good story opportunities.
@itzhen7032 my Warden Commander Queen is immortal as far as I'm concerned. The next game could be set 50 years in the future and I'm still going to be holding out hope she's relevant lmao
@@mickeyveach3612 We know the Warden if survived tried to make contact them, and travel over seas to stop the calling, thats why im thinking whatever the warden found could be relevant
While the initial presentation of those across the sea being involved the whole time is an divisive revelation, they really could go in any direction with that so I wonder how they'll land it.
@@itzhen7032 Didnt warden go west beyond mountains?
The blight changed, there’s other voices beneath the gods. I’d venture a guess and say it’s those across the sea, manipulating things through the blight now
I am hoping all this ties to the ancient origins of humans and qunari.
I don’t think we should be worried about some Illuminati forces influencing the events of previous games. What I take from this is that the Executors are not influencing directly, they are more likely observers waiting for the moment they could reveal themselves to do whatever the hell they are planning. Or maybe they even feed somehow on the previous choices made in Thedas or are formed (?) by them. I’m excited. Also, is Vorgoth an Executor (more likely not but the description fits?) or some other being?
Ok, Vorgoth may indeed be an Executor, the more you think about it I guess
I'm so glad you tied in Taash's personal quest and Yavana's comments from the comics! Those ideas have been swirling in my head too.
I am curious *how* Loghain was influenced in all this. Bartrand was noticeably effected by the Red Lyrium Idol and Cory was Corrupted by breaching the Veil; this could have tied back to The Blight and therefore Titans, if not for Loghain. Unblighted Dog Lord, did something whisper to you in dreams?
Veilguard; not even a month old and already getting theory videos ❤ I'm so excited
YAY NEW GHIL VIDEO :D
Some thoughts and theories
How does Nunael/the Healer fit in to this? It would be weird to introduce this named Evanuris traitor. And from the codex where we get there named we know they are "executed" in flame which feels specific and relevant. My best guess is maybe this person went on to create the Adaari? Is this why in Horror of Hormak we see the Healer change, how Nunael's position was replaced by Ghilan'nain? So many thoughts here...
Another thought with the executors, they use collective "we" when talking about themselves. This immediately makes me think of Titans, and specifically in one of the Solas regrets/murals there is one Titan that does not have a "tranquility" marking. Does this mean that (at least) one Titan got away? The Executors also talk out of order which reminds me of Valta's notes on the Sha-Brytol and how she can't keep track of it is past present or future.
Now for the blight, we now know that it came from/is the severed dreams of the Titans. (The "pain and anger" that Solas mentions in his regret also made me think of what we know on blood magic being proportionately strong to the suffering it causes) The Grey Wardens (and possibly those in Kal-Sharok) are blighted, by a Joining (the word choice feels more important now) and they will later hear a Calling. They hear whispers and other voices through the blight, do the executors have the ability to communicate through it? It could help explain how the executors have "influenced" outcomes in Thedas.
I think the two companions who can "die" also might have something to do with TATS, we have Davrin who has the blight in his blood (and Assan who Ghilan'nain thinks some other being may have created and hates the blight) or Harding who is connected to the Stone. It seems too specific that it's these two who are the possible sacrificed, there's gotta be something here.
Still trying to find the forest, it's hard when you're just a caterpillar on a leaf.
Fen'Harel enansal Ghil Dirthalen.
Crack theory: Vorgoth is an Executor.
You expected a secret ending but it was me, Zovaal the Jailer! 🗿
Damn Blizzard….
GHIL VEILGUARD LORE VIDEO ‼️‼️‼️
Very excited, I've been looking forward to this for weeks ❤
Alright coming back after watching the video to say that I loved this.
Really interesting point about Loghain and Bartrand taking up entire rings. It would imply importance vs the events shown in orbs, but arguably...the Magisters breaking into the Fade must be considered a larger event than Bartrand stealing the idol, no?
So the meaning behind that art choice is so strange. Is it because Loghain and Bartrand weren't involved in the Fade, so they don't get their veil bubble around the image? But then Cailan is in a Fade bubble...was he some kind of magical sacrifice, dragons blood and all that?
Idk. More questions than answers.
Cailan was the son of Maric who had blood of the dragons so maybe this is why he was important and why his death was needed
I didn't even know that people from thedas were unable to travel across the sea.
Ps: Those across the sea appear to be very much inspired in "lovecraftian" mythos
I think they can, it's usually just running into Rivaini pirates, sea monsters (real), Qunari dreadnaughts, or never returning. Dreadnaughts are the biggest ships we see, so I don't think Thedas has big, multi-mast cargo frigates yet. More like adapted river boats.
If dragons were thought extinct until the end of the Blessed Age, and the proto-Qunari across the sea interacted with dragons somehow. Does that mean that when the dragons came back, they did so from across the sea?
Not sure it would be interesting or anything, but I thought it was worth mentioning that at least we know they're aware of dragons.
The Silent Grove
Not sure if it's covered here but Ghil and Elgar have a voice note where they talk about the storm EXTENSIVELY. Really well acted. Worth a listen :)
YAY LORE VIDEOS ARE BACK. WE ARE SO BACK
Other names for the text:
Chant of Night
Rant of Light
Canticle of Storms
Canticle of Sublimation
The Dissonant Verse
Eye of Storms
Eye of Balance
The Executors remind me of the Auditors from Diskworld
Oh, i think if you look at the Executor art and then the achievement icon, that's an Executor Helmet. They both have similar holes in the face part.
Veilguard wrapped up a lot of the series lore, so I'm just glad we have things to speculate about again.
I'm getting hive mind vibes from the executors. Prehaps they aren't individual people but a poweful being spreading itself out through bodies. Maybe that's why it's so stilted, the executor bodies are drawing from such extensive knowledge from the hive mind? Either way, there's certainly a cosmic horror theme at play which I absolutely love.
There is also a bit of ambient dialogue in Docktown where we get to see the Executors work in action. There are these two guards stationed next to the Lamplighter who are constantly talking about conspiracy theories and what-not. IIRC, one is super conspiratorial and the other is a skeptic. After exhausting all of their ambient dialogue, the conspiratorial guard will ask if the skeptic believes in the Scaled Ones or the Executors, but before they can finish their dialogue both guards just up and vanish. I tried to see if it was a glitch or something, but after reloading Docktown numerous times I could never find them again. I'm convinced the two guards got got like the guys at the Nevarran outposts.
I was waiting for your Veilguard theories and lore videos! ❤
Finished last night, I've only been able to play after my kids go to bed. So excited to finally engage with the fandom again😊
Luckily the cut scene kind of works for what varric was saying 😂
It weirdly does! Enough that I had people asking me why the evnauris were controlling people from their prison, and that's how I found out about the glitch, haha!
I got that cutscene on my first playthrough and then was later baffled why no one was talking about Loghain and Bartrand (and Meredith and Corypheus) being revealed as puppets of the Evanuris…
i feel like maybe they're the Forgotten ones. Also wanted to bring up that Anaris is the only (I think) nondragon enemy that gets a DEFEATED banner. Anaris is also voiced by Mercer (but who in this game isn't) and his get up with the robes and mask is similar (but not really the same) as the images of Executors we get. All that said I have no effing clue.
Honestly Anaris's inclusion is weird to me. He's a whole Forgotten One and nobody seems to care much and it's that kind of uncanny "this response does not fit the gravity of the situation"
It feels like he was thrown in haphazardly. Up to now we didn't know what the Forgotten Ones were, with theories ranging from the archdemons to the Titans to something totally unknown, and then here one is, just.... an elf, I guess? Just a bootleg Evanuris, with no mention of Solas or why he was considered one or why he imprisoned them in myth too or where they've been or how exactly he's here now. Very underwhelming and I feel like he could be replaced with any old evil blood mage and we would have lost nothing
In a way "Truth is a killer of Excitement".😥
Forgotten ones:
Before VG - something awesome and mysteries with great possibilities.
After VG - Ah, they just elves who were kicked out from the Evanures club, and now they salted and ignored.
He wasn't as much an elf as a spirit of the original spirits the elves were - as the Evanuris fought to have bodies from the Titan's bodies, Anaris and the forgotten ones fought to have the elves remain bodieless and pure, as spirits and demons 🙏
It would explain why they had him in the game. We know next to nothing about them and why they are “forgotten”. I personally think it’s a splinter group that fled across the ocean to escape rule by the Evanuris. Maybe they met something over there similar to the blight that changed them. Would be interesting to explore.
@@LinneaRisingerif that’s the case, he wouldn’t want a physical body. That was the entire point of why he manipulated Cyrian. He wanted his physical body back.
The description of the executors, especially with reference to the 'sublimation' reminds me of that entity in the Necropolis Halls... the one that sells you merch...
So is that executor triangle supposed to be a storm?
Things we know:
Humans are from outside of Thedas
Qunari/Kossith are from outside of Thedas (Devouring Storm)
Dwarves exist outside of Thedas (Laysh)
The Evanuris, Qun, and Magister Sidereal are all aware of "Those Across the Sea"
People from Thedas have found empty continents outside of Thedas
People from Thedas that found "Those Across the Sea" have joined them
"Those Across the Sea" were watching the breach/knew about Corypheus
The executors can be contacted and have spies all around Thedas (Inquisition/Tevinter Nights)
Sounds like "Those Across the Sea" have been known since ancient Elvhenan, but have more or less been quiet and have started to appear more active since Inquisition
This was so exhaustive, thank you!! The secret ending didn’t bother me that much, but I can definitely see what you’re saying about it not setting TATS up as very relatable or nuanced antagonists. I’m still hopeful that further information will make them more intriguing (and hopeful that it won’t take ten more years to find out 🫠)
To Epler's notes, I don't think it's going to go incredibly deep. This feels like a way to link past and present, possibly with feedback around closure and DAV feeling like a "reboot" to some. Something to ground the new villains in the familiar. I hope the icons they showed are for accessibility, and the actual people are these deep cut characters. Inky's South report absolutely nods to the idea that the Game isn't the only important thing happening during its time. Adding that feeling to past entries may feel like hand-holding, but it helps the "every entry is someone's first" sales tactic. Thank you for giving me fodder to talk about and loving the return to form!
My view of the Executors is much more ‘long-running foreign espionage operation’ (with some fantasy flair) as opposed to ‘evil Illuminati that were secretly behind every bad thing to happen ever.’ The former is much more relatable (unfortunately).
I really liked the idea of using other characters besides Loghain, though. The Architect or someone like Gaspard du Chalons would have served the same purpose.
Ultimately, though, I’m excited to see your thoughts on the rest of the lore and I really hope the general vitriol towards this game doesn’t discourage you.
That was so interesting. I could listen to hours more of you theorizing!
There is also a note in Dock Town at the paper vender area where you meet the guy from the Threads. It mentions markings that no one can identify. There was more to the note, but I can't remember rn lol. Worth looking into.
So the first time I saw the cutscene my mind didn’t jump to the executors. Instead the beginning of the voiceover, about Ghilan’nain being quelled, Elgar’nan dimmed and Solas defanged straightaway reminded me of the codex entry in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC - Geldauran’s Claim. “Let Andruil’s bow crack, let June’s fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.” Geldauran is another forgotten one, mentioned in a different codex entry along with Anaris. So I think Geldauran might be involved with what’s happening across the sea. Also having re-read the entry before typing this, the rest of the codex entry is also really interesting in the context of the choices of the magisters sidereal, Loghain, Bartrand, Meredith and Corypheus, all of whom in one way or another pursued power for themselves.
I desperately wanted to ask Solas about the Forgotten Ones as soon as Anaris was mentioned.
The game seems to deliberately not let you do that even after completing Bellara’s questline. There’s definitely more mystery to uncover with them.
Don't know if you'll see that, or even if you talk about it later in the vid but if i don't type it know i'll forget. You talk about how in then ending scene the Executors symbols seems tagged on circle carved with writings from another culture : is it me, or are those writings very similar to those of the Qunari tablet Taash's holding ?
Anyhow thanks for the vid, glad we can go back to building theories upon theories upon theories !
Very interesting!
I took the rocky masks these creatures were wearing as an indication that they were somehow connected to Titans, maybe a manifestation of Titans' souls that were cut off by Solas? That would explain why they wanted to get rid of Evanuris and Solas before making their move I guess? And Veilguard does mention that if we were to ever return Titan's souls/minds into their bodies, we would have to heal them first, as they were driven mad...I dunno, maybe it's not that though.
For me this is all very loftcraftian. all hail to the old gods? Dagon, Cthulhu, the King in Yellow/Hastur, Nyarlatothep. Shub Niggurath, Azatoth etc pp.
A video about the data mines, please 🥺
I’m gonna reserve judgment until we learn more about the next game. Cause with how well it’s done, and now that BioWare is going full steam ahead on the next mass effect, we unfortunately won’t find out about what exactly the executors are for a while, so we’ll just have to wait and see what exactly their role is if they haven’t been manipulating events in the series
With regards to the connection to Ghilan'nain, I wonder if TATS have something to do with the 'Giants of the Sea" from her DAI codex entry: "On the second day she drowned the giants of the sea, except those in deep waters, for they were too well-wrought, and Pride stopped her hand." On the first day she "struck down the monsters of the air" which also might have a connection with dragons. Did Ghil *create* TATS? Or have something to do with awakening or discovering them?
I think the point about the executors is probably true, it just makes sense with that name.
This is actually a great deal more interesting than I had initially thought and might be tied to some other, very interesting lore questions we've had for years.
I'm not super jazzed about the loghain stuff, but it depends how light a hand they had in it.
Thank you Ghil! That post credits was entirely disapointing for me. This video made me feel better :)
So something that my partner and I were discussing the other day is that Thedas seems to be progressing......really slowly....like from a societal and technology standpoint. We don't see a lot of differences between what is described as modern life and what it was like in say the Storm Age or any other point since the founding of the Chantry. This could just be bc its a fantasy game and they are usually set in and around the Renaissance but, To draw from real world history a bit, we've clearly invented the printing press and SOME countries in Thedas have a fairly high rate of literacy (as seen by the existence of Newspapers in Minrathous and that Varric can be a famous published author). In the real world, this, along with the discovery and import of coffee and tea, was one of the many factors kicked off the Renaissance. We have........most of those factors going and yet.....we aren't...Renaissance-ing. SOMETHING is keeping their thumb on the scale and that is what my husband and I think the Executors are. There seems to be some kind of barrier in the eastern ocean that keeps people from leaving. SOMETHING is keeping Thedas contained and keeping it from advancing and while I'm not sure what exactly making Loghain betray everyone did, having Bartrand retrieve the dagger set the events in motion to get rid of the elven gods for good. Something that they seem to have been aiming for??? Loose thoughts and we don't know enough to guess WHY they want Thedas contained and stagnant but might be something?
All of that aside, one thing is clear: Whatever it is that the Qunari were running from all these years is coming.
I wonder if the qunari are even more tied to those across the sea, as the whole race has been hinted at being created multiple times now. Corypheus tells an Adaar inquisitor that her race was a mistake, AND Mythal will mention to a qunari Rook that in her time, qunari did not yet exist. I know it has been a popular fan theory that Ghil created qunari, but that doesn't seem to be the case with what Mythal is saying in Veilguard.
Couldn't be me going absolutely rabid at a new lore video
Iron Bull mentions that the Qunari of their homeland looked and were different than the Qunari today, so maybe they were subjected to the goop? Maybe they also changed to look more like dragons when they tried to make the adaari?
Also there's that theory that the Veil only covers Thedas, right? Wasn't there something about people coming back mad from their voyages to try and find Amaranthine? I wonder if they're interested in Solas because of him trying to tear down the veil, or just because he's also ancient elvhen? Maybe there is something about Thedas potentially existing in a literal bubble lol that is interesting to them?
Also also LOL i'm happy that I found all of those codex entries and somewhat pieced that stuff together too :^)
The secret ending has me conflicted but I'm cautiously optimistic, emphasis on cautious.
My own theory is that Loghain acted on his own, and the Executors rather had something to do with the whole Cailan wanting to marry Celene, same for Bartrand but that the Executors provided the map to the Primeval Thaig, and so on.
Epler wouldn't have used that code to clarify the wording if that wasn't the case.
i'm also interested in what the executors did not mention:
Morrigan, who has the knowledge of myhtal and her essence.
Mythal herself. they reference solas, elgar'nan and ghilan'nain. also flemeth is shown, so they could have been manipulating or influencing flemeth. not myhtal herself. because it seems to me that they wanted the evanuris to be gone, but they didn't attempt to manipulate them. maybe they never couldn't. i'm just saying mythal (oversimplyfying things) is now a mini statue (rook says they never have felt anything more alive when they touch it) and also she lives on in morrigan.
they also don't say a word about the titans.
Interestingly enough, the robes mythal wears, the skin, when you get it, is called watcher's robes. which is what the executors have been doing. mythal has been doing that all this time too. is there a connection? i have no clue. it just seems odd to me that they gave mythal of all people a random armor that happens to be called that. I may be reaching lol. But when I replay the series i am going to be suspicious of every triangle i see, i am now traumatize by triangles.
i may be completely wrong, i just finished the game and my brain hasn't processed all the details just yet. I need a few days lol. so apologies if any of this sounds completely stupid. i just wanted to share my thoughts :)
I have been waiting for these videos to start again!!! Wooooo she’s back!!’
I can kind of understand feeling disappointed about the implications for about some characters' actions, but Bartrand was already implied to not be operating entirely of his own volition, via the red lyrium.
Dream weavers and dream eaters.
Idk why, it's probably nothing but the appearance and game file descriptions of Vorgoth remind me of the Executors
I think the Devouring Storm is the Abyss from Elvish mythology. The ancient elves were a magic based society. So it makes sense that they would consider a substance or location that just eats magic as being an abyss. We know that the Forgotten Ones are associated with the abyss and we have a record of Anaris discovering the material of the devouring storm giving a direct connection between the Forgotten Ones and the Devouring Storm. And that combines well with him trying to escape the eye (of the Devouring Storm) since the Forgotten Ones are said to have been sealed in the Abyss.
Also I would throw out that the "she has weapons" line might be referring to Andruil. We all know the myth about Andruil donning armor made of the void (and weapons of darkness). In DAV, the party speculates that that story is about armor made of the Blight, but that doesn't actually fit the story. The armor is made of the Abyss/Void, which was the home of the Forgotten Ones. She acquired the Abyss/Void while hunting them (or maybe got the idea of using it from her hunts of them). There is nothing indicating that the Forgotten Ones ever stole the Blight from the Evanuris.
Now according to the story, Mythal was the one who beat down Andruil and saved her from the armor. Mythal is known for turning into a giant dragon. As noted in the video, what did the Qunari do to respond to the Devouring Storm? Gave themselves the ability to breathe dragon fire. So that story makes a lot more sense if Andruil was taken over by the Devouring Storm and Mythal was able to free her using dragon fire. That could also explain where Ghilan'nain gained her knowledge of the Devouring Storm, she was looking for information about the thing that hurt her lover and possibly delved too deep.
Not sure if it’s grasping for straws but I’ve been wondering if it’s possible the storm has something to do with the origin of spirits being able to turn into demons. Anaris whining about being sent back to the storm reads a little similar to the demon possessing the dragon raging about being sent back to the fade. Also the final codex entry for The Warden Grey quest where Grey implies the purpose of the Qunari may be to stand against demon (or he was just saying some cool shit could go either way). It would maybe do some to explain why the Qun is so structured around making sure it’s people to have a set lot in life where they would not give into the temptation of something demon related.
There is something going on with the Forbidden Ones here too. They are constantly talking about “getting back” in this game.
I’m just confused because this First Expedition is so old, but Corypheus also somehow knows the Qunari are a failed experiment? Corypheus is not that old. Did he learn it #inthefade?😭
Part of me wonders if that unknown substance is related to the void? Like the same stuff that Andruil put on as armor. I dont think DAV really covered that or directly connected it to the blight unless it did and I just didnt register it.
Bellara (I think) connected that story to Andruil being corrupted with the Blight, but she was just speculating. There was nothing definitive on try ‘Void’ from what I’ve seen.
Wait...it's secret?! I got it on my first playthrough thinking everyone had gotten it like a Marvel movie and not paying attention to those circles at all. 😂
Forgotten ones, splinter group fled over seas - or there is another group of Evanuris-like people who are magic eaters.
LORE VIDEO, LFGGGGG
I am.... tentative about the Extra Scene, even with Epler's reassurances. It will all depend on how it's implemented, I am willing to wait to find out but for now I'm being a hater about this :(( (like, a light hater, lmao - im not gonna go around bashing this when I don't know anything about it.).
I agree with you that Loghain and Bartrand are just too exemplary of the core of DA and the ramifications of their actions are just excellent when you observe it through the lens of their humanity. Loghain being a paranoid weirdo (affectionate) about Orlais unfolds to give us DAO and even affects the macro politics of the setting because it leads to Cailan's death. Bartrand kickstarts the whole Red Lyrium arc, his greed and ignorance providing the springboard that right now might as well define the setting - and more than that, his actions contextualise Varric's. Everything Varric does, in context to Bertrand is heartbreaking and poignant and meaningful - I'm not saying that this potential angle diminishes those things, but.... they might start to ring a hollow. Have to say tho, of all the main conflicts we've seen the Orlesian Civil War not being one of the things they influenced is very funny to me, Orlais keeping its "Terrible People Doing Terrible Things" status is so on brand lmao.
Not sure of it is relevant, but the Candlehops thingies feel like it could be the executors too. Mysterious, helpful to the protag as they were in Inquisition, based in Tevinter who seems to have an history with the Those Across The Sea/Executors.
The format of the Executors Poem does remind me of the Chant of Light, as does the content of it - relatively religious - but frankly, it's more likely a stretch.
I think there is one more reference to the Executors in the Sharkmouth volcano. The Grey Warden keep has statues all around it that have big circular halos with smaller circles in them. It could just be normal statue halos but with so many other references to circles in the game I wouldn't discard them completely.
I also think the Executors might be the same as the snake people that are mentioned once or twice. They talk with a bit of a hiss often used by actors doing a 'snake voice', all the circles could be like the ouroboros symbol and the symbol of the two lines almost looks like a stylised snake eye.
Perhaps the "weapon" attached to the arch magister's is more important than we think? Maybe it wasn't the gods being taken out that made them say "Okay now its time", but the weapon becoming inoperable after the battle? We don't know what exactly it is, but if it was made to fight them... Maybe it has a similar effect as dragonfire?
If its possible, what would that mean? Perhaps their weakness really is dragonfire. An abundance of dragons might keep them away. The Palace (a floating fortress that creates a similar affect, but without the risk of taming a dragon) would be a mobile tank fortress. Because the question is: If they were involved in those events, why? What's to gain?
The common factor is chaos. Blights and war have the chance to topple nations without TATS being directly involved. It might be less that the Executors have been behind everything all along.... and more that they've been throwing rocks at a bear, in the hopes that it will wake up and break the scary gun on the wall. After six blights and centuries of war, the gun they were scared of looks broken enough (though still afloat). And all the dragons got hunted off (they're coming back). And the Qunari have lost their firebreathers (Not quite)
Again, tinfoil hat, but IF THATS THE CASE, then we have enough weak points for TATS to say "Oh good enough to invade", and enough situations for a hero to run around and rally. Fix the war palace, tame a dragon, befriend the Qunari, ect. Also Morrigan stays relevant, love that for her.
1. As a fellow Okie - hell yeah.
2. For no reason whatsoever, I'm wondering if the at the eye of the storm there's a dragon. One that would make Lusacan look small. Maybe even the first dragon?
3. I wonder if the storm itself is actually another prison, since Bioware/DA seem to love magical prisons.
As a big fan of Stolen Throne, this actually fixes a discrepency i have because i thought Origins completely assassinated Loghain's character. The idea of the executors were the reason hes such a cartoon villain makes it more digestible to me.
Thank you! I always feel so alone with the opinion that Origins did Loghain absurdly dirty.
Yes, sure, trauma can do some serious damage to a person. But nothing we learn about Loghain's life between Stolen Throne and Origins has ever justified this extreme shift to me.
I always cringe hard when people somehow talk about Loghain being a complex villain in Origins because he always felt laughably arrogant, delusional and stupid to me. Like, almost Corypheus levels of all three. That is not the same brilliant man I loved reading about in Stolen Throne.
Very interesting video!
I think they clearly have more ideas for another Dragon Age game and maybe even David Gaider knows it,who knows lol
The important thing in my opinion is how these ideas and theories are articulated and enriched by devs/Bio writers,we really know very little to judge
I wasn't going to watch this at first, but I'm so far away from the end, I thought, "What the hell?" I'm enjoying the game a lot, but the new combat system is giving me fits. My warrior seems to be made of glass.
wHAT how did i miss all of this 💀 I remember the chalk stuff in Inquisition and i know i followed through with all of them at the table, but i for some reason never thought too deeply about this. Very interesting! I need to get into the lore deeper.
I also wondered with all the references to an incoming storm is that the letters you get from inky bring up feeling like something is coming and I believe one of them was even titled something to do with a storm. I don't see how there'd be a connection past possibly the inquisition having further contact post DA:I maybe? but the wording in the letters stuck out to me.
Theres also a voice line from keepsake and curio to taash about breathers of dragon flames being famed across the sea.
You are going to be busy with lore because Veilguard has so much! Good video as always.
It also happens on xbox series s console where u get the secret cutscene after D'metas crossing.
37:38 if true, imagine in Dragon Age 5 where in order to defeat the TATS, you have to bring the Blight back. Could make for a big "holy shit" Act 3 twist.
Playing through origins right now this afternoon
Playing through the haunted Orphanage where the huge foreshadowing of the golden city plot thread was ilhinted at
Give John Epler and the team my condolences ok??
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR VEILGUARD THEORIESSSS...
Ugh, these thoughts make my brain hurt xD
The symbol looks like a tornado and an eye, or a funnel and a symbol for vigilance. Green is also the color of the Fade, of formless thoughts taking shape because they watch Thedas, becoming spirits. Solas split the Fade from the Waking World, are these displaced spirits wanting to return? Is this the actual sea or a spiritual plane, or is it about the waves? Small storms were ended, feeding the main one; small rifts closed which focusses the stress/breaking point in to a single point. Those with the power of dragonblood can see them, hurt them. Those that are now the Qunari fed deliberately on dragonblood to become what they are now, to be strong enough to withstand and escape south. But not all escaped south, some still fight back where they came from. Did the Veil cover all of Thedas or were their homelands suddenly flooded with displaced entities, waves rippling away from the mainland, a sea of space and time between the entities and where they began.. It speaks of walls and cracks in it, a wounded sky. Is DA5 going to be about finally doing something about the Veil and the disbalance it brought to the world, or is this an even older conflict that has decided to bide their time until it was time to strike? (wait, wasn't there a forgotten one who said he'd come back when the time was right? Daernthal?) Was the war the Evanuris fought really with the Titans, or did they just slay the Titans to get more bodies for their war after they figured out that their spirit forms were too weak? Was the first war in spirit form against these entities? Or maybe the Evanuris created these entities (from the enemies/belief/gods line in the 'poem'). Or maybe Ghilan'nain took their ability to sculpt bodies anew. Once they made bodies out of lyrium they were solid, constant, no longer like spirits who were able to shape things to their thoughts. Lots of talk about a floating city as well. If lyrium (and by extension the Blight) is magic made solid, maybe their power was fluid magic and this was disturbed by the war of the Evanuris and/or Solas' creation of the Veil.
Veilguard left many questions unanswered. So I hope this means DA5 is about the history of the world, of the Evanuris. And that we finally get a better solution or choice to change the world to a final state; with or without the Veil, aka with or without magic. All games were about the conflict magic brings to mankind, how mages were both feared and oppressed, powerful and enslaved or in power yet corrupt. Maybe our final choice in DA5 would be a world fully without magic, or fully flooded with it..
Ahhh so many thoughts and right before bedtime as well xD There goes my peaceful sleep!
So, speaking as someone who has Loghain as her favourite character in the series (though Emmrich is incredible competition) I'm apprehensive, but won't judge until we see how this is interpreted. An Executor ensuring that a few pieces of information land in Loghain's hands isn't really *that* big of a deal to me? I'm worried of his complexities being pulled apart if they lean too hard, but Loghain is at his core, easily manipulated and swayed. So idunno, wait and see I guess.
Oooh this was soo good. Thank you for the vid ✨
Assigning companions to jobs in the last part of the game felt like ME2 imo. Now I'm just worried they'll go full Mass Effect by having the Executors be Reapers (e.g. calling Thedas a fruit that will ripen).
So for Loghain and Bartrend I don't think they where manipulated into doing their actions. For Loghain I think the Executors just nudge him like how Mythal is to have said to nudge history (like when she saves the Warden and Hawke.) For Bartrend I think the Executors where the ones that told him the Primevial Theig and that's it.
For the Executors presentation, I feel as if the writiers are trying to do what the MCU did for Thanos. The problem is that Thanos was an already established charecter while the Executors are 100% new.
Oh I would've LOVED a DLC where we go find Harding or Davrin and also that serves as an epilogue or something. I felt like there was something missing after dealing with Solas and it just...abruptly ended. Oh well...
Is there anywhere to read more of the datamined content? Or to discuss it? It's super interesting!