ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2024
- I analyze and react to my tournament run at Cream City Convergence 2024, which took place in Milwaukee, WI. I managed to get 5th, taking out players like 801 Strider and Samurai. However, my set against Joey - another Manon player - highlights a problem I've had about how meter works in this game...
🎥 TH-cam: / @idomnyc
🗣 Twitter: x.com/idomnyc
💻 Twitch at: / idom_ny
Rep The Set! | Sponsored By XSET
Website: xset.com/pages...
Twitter: / xset
Edited by FIGHTZONE: / sasaawd
Thumbnail by Justn: / justingameow
StarsYT helps make this channel possible be working on editing, SEO and channel management for this channel. If you want help with your TH-cam channel check them out at: / starsytcontent
#iDom #iDomFGC #StreetFighter6 #SF6 #StreetFighter #Manon - เกม
![[ 🔴LIVE ] Minecraft : Day2 #ปริมรูหนู วันนี้ต้องชุดเพชร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j6tAV3CRSHA/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how you're playing on the highest level and explaining the games as if you're watching 2 scrubs in Bronze
Not trying to discredit iDom or any top players at all with this statement, but when you can slow down fighting games like this it gets pretty simple unless you're explaining mental stacks going on in a given match and set and longer if two people play against each other a lot. Game is only overwhelming/super complex at a basic level when it's going at the usual fast speed, not like a moba or football match or something where a bunch of stuff from a bunch of players in different positions is going on. This is a good thing tho! Analysis of top players is very accessible
Not trying to discredit iDom or any top players at all with this statement, but when you can slow down fighting games like this it gets pretty simple unless you're explaining mental stacks going on in a given match and set and longer if two people play against each other a lot. Game is only overwhelming/super complex at a basic level when it's going at the usual fast speed, not like a moba or football match or something where a bunch of stuff from a bunch of players in different positions is going on. This is a good thing tho! Analysis of top players is very accessible
Happy Birthday Manon 🎈
I don’t think regenerative meter is all that bad in the case of street fighter 6. In MK11 it felt horrible because completely exhausting your resource meant absolutely nothing, but in SF6 when you burn your resource you’re put into an extremely disadvantageous state. I think the way to go would be what iDom said in the video, the person walking back recovers less drive meter than the person walking forward
"the person walking back recovers less drive meter than the person walking forward" Pretty sure that already happens.
@@AirLancer nah it doesn’t
@@theblueghost0107according to the super combo wiki, walking forward does gain slight drive. So walking forward vs walking back does more gain on drive
It also makes sense for combos that uses micro walks to gain slight drive
@@theblueghost0107 it 100% does lol
@@chasepalumbo2929 yeah, without that certain combos wouldn’t exist. I’m saying that the difference should be more noticeable
The fight against Samurai was so funny and entertaining, the peak of the tournament for me lol
5:40 is clearly not a random super. Samurai did not want to go to burnout and was betting on iDom pressuring. Blocking would mean burnout, EX DP would beat the pressure (that he bet would happen) but would also mean burnout. Lv1 super acted as an EX DP that cost super gauge instead of drive gauge avoiding burnout. If he's gamble was correct it would beat the pressure and if he was wrong, a blocked EX DP or super has basically the same fate so might as well save yourself from burnout in case you win the bet
I don't understand how a multi year top professional player doesn't understand this.
Idom is not a top player lmao. He had a good run with laura which was a brain dead character theres a reason the crowd was silent and no one was there for idom when he won cpt. Hes a fraud and a loser @Un1234l
@@Un1234l idom has a lot of talent and ability but a loser's mentality and no curiosity about the game or the mechanics. he's got a professional's skill but dark syde phil's brain.
Street 4 was well known for the power of wake up ultra as well it's not abnormal really. I'm not sure about part 5 but the way damage scaling worked in that game felt like it was always more worth keeping your super as a hit confirm rather than a wake up reversal (unless you play gief ofc)
It was only like that in 4 at low level tbh tho, high level people would Dp fadc ultra or something more optimal. Thing is in sf4, ultras were massive start up usually. In Sf6 they are almost always fast enough to beat any move and with Di vs burnout they turned wake up super into part of the game to the point that it's often your only option.
Ultras didn't punish you for trying to light jab because light jab recovered faster
I realized that as Manon I have not been leveraging DI enough. I feel like it’s so integral to her being successful.
all system mechanics are essential for manon. if you aren't using DI, Drive Reversal, raw drive rush normals etc you are playing her poorly. she's a new character to the series designed entirely for these mechanics and you need to use them. when people say manon's drive rush is bad so don't use it they're trying to make you lose more.
@@mattb6616 is literacy just dead or am I crazy. In what part of those two sentences did I say I’m not using any of these mechanics; specifically DI? Additionally, her DRush is just bad and is in fact the worst DRush in the game but literally no one says don’t use it. In fact no Manon player has ever said that. Given your reply I’d imagine someone said “you can’t just raw DR whenever you want like the bulk of the cast” and in your infinite wisdom you took that as them saying “never use raw DR.” Your reply was extremely pretentious, unnecessary, and wrong and you should probably work on that.
@@bqing87 hit the lab instead of arguing in comments bro
@@mattb6616 how about instead of talking pointless trash you play me instead.
HBD MANON HAHA
Something is weird about meter. One player can sit in a corner hurling a ton of projectiles, while another player is spending DG just trying to get in. The latter will then have less meter while the person sitting on their ass will have more. Some may call it playing to a character's strengths, but there needs to be something pushing both players forward. I think it's something that can be tuned in patches, though hopefully more often than once a year.
This just seems like a problem w zoning rather than meter tbh
Without meter regeneration I think the game would incentivize even more aggression. Noah's playstyle would likely be meta because you might as well burn yourself out on your own terms. I think it feels particularly bad while playing as Manon because she's one of the few characters with no neutral skip option. You can't drive rush in because she moves too slow, and she only has one safe-on-block special move, which costs bar. Hanging back to recover drive is usually balanced around giving an opening for your opponent to try and start applying pressure.
you can drive rush in a lot more than you think. manon's gameplan kind of depends heavily on raw drive rush. her buttons have extremely long reach to make up for the lack of distance/speed on her DR and the plus frames are essential. to play manon you absolutely have to master the F, MP+MK+F input to save half a bar of meter and drive rush a little faster.
@@mattb6616 Yeah, I don't mean that she's unplayable or unquestionable bottom 1, but I do think she has an unreasonable restriction when compared with the rest of the cast. She _can_ play the same game as everyone else, but has to work harder for it without getting as big of a reward for doing so.
Thanks for your interesting commentaries, and congratulations on always competing at such a high level with Manon. Keep it up!
"WENSDAY"
Regenerating meter is a pretty bad mechanic. MK11's wasn't particularly bad in how it worked during a match, but what made it actually bad was the fact it regenerated in between rounds and it was something everyone wanted removed. You could lose a round and have no meter. The win animation plays out, all the while this is happening that player's meter is building and by the time the announcer says "FIGHT" and round 2 starts, that player that lost and had no meter now has a bar and then some.
That was the only real problem with the meter in that game, passive regeneration outside of actual gameplay.
I think they could slow down the regeneration when doing nothing, but also make it so that player can earn the faster regeneration by hitting the other player block/hit. IMO, the meter regen in this game absolutely forces the drive rush heavy meta the game has had since release.
Lmao I kinda love how much Idom trash talks this game, specially since the SF6 community is insanely defensive every time someone dares to say anything negative about it.
It's just funny to talk shit about games, man
I hate that aspect of the meter too, everybody be playing so defensive its boring, you are forced to kind of rush when they are low meter and when you finally get them to the corner you fuck up once and boom you are now the cornered one.
Drive meter is fundamentally flawed mechanic. Too much stuff is tied to it and it does too much all the while looming burn out over your head. Regular meter just being used for super is just used space. I always thought that driver meter should act in similar way to tension but with the twist where you are fighting over it(uni style). Burn out is just lame as win condition that just makes game nightmare to balance, and if you need something like it I think there are better alternatives.
1,000% agree! Animé meter gain should be applied in Street Fighter!
Nothing is more annoying than a Ken putting themselves in burnout in the first 10 seconds of the match, and gets meter back from just running.
Bbtag has the only inoffensive version of regenerating meter I've seen because it's tied to the game's comeback mechanic. Being a tag game and all only having one character is a huge detriment, so the combo of meter regen/increased cap/better meter gain feels less cheap and more you getting one last chance before you get put in the blender.
The other instance of meter regen is if the timer hits 80 seconds. In a vs game with instant tagging. When the timer starts at 180. Instead of being offensive it's almost like a bonus for anyone that managed to survive that long.
"What other game do you know where a wake up super would take this much life for no reason."
Honestly? Several. King of Fighters, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Guilty Gear Strive, and Samurai Shodown just off the top.
In DBFZ, you are giving up a resource and abilities to do other important actions like Vanish, Guard Cancel etc, if you are doing reversal super and you are also still getting blue life back if you get hit. In Strive, sure you can reversal super but that meter is also tied to FD RC etc. So you are still making sacrifices to be able to do wake up supers.
Yeah in sf6 the super meter being used only for supers is overturned. Few decisions made on the resource.
@@iDomNYC Street Fighter 4
@@EbonMasterit really wasn't this overpowered in sf4 at all. Plus overall damage in sf4 wasn't anywhere near this high.
@@remylebeau34
Raw Ultra + revenge gauge absolutely does this much damage
SF6 isn't my favorite fighting game but it sounds like you're some dude ranting after he lost a tournament. "Why is the game designed the way it is!? It should be designed another way!" I don't even disagree with a lot of your points here but I feel like the biggest issue you have is the character you picked. Manon doesn't have a DP so you're going to be burning supers on wake-up. Manon doesn't have dive kicks or fireballs so you're going to have to work to burn somebody's drive gauge. This might be a character issue more than a system mechanics issue.
he barely even does the shit you're supposed to do to burn people out with manon. 236p~k is safe on block and does like almost an entire bar in drive gauge damage. comboing into drive impact instead of going for grab when your opponent whiffs a DP/you block a punishable move to force burnout.
1:59 GGST. Absurd damage on every super, a lot of them are invincible on startup and you can get the meter for all of them in 1 interaction. One of those even has a plus on block followup because why not?
I love GGST, but when I want to play for more than 30 seconds per match, I play SF6
How is iDom gonna complain about random super when he won two or three matches in this video with random wakeup super?
I'm surprised Idom gets this upset about SF6 reversal lvl3s when he plays Strive. In earlier versions characters like Ramlethal had wakeup super do silly damage like that but only cost 1 of 2 meter resources instead of 3 of 3 super meter in this game. Reversal level 3s are a lot in this game compared to street fighter titles for sure but not so much general landscape
13:06 love that self compliment mid sentence xD
He’s right like you can perfect parry then grab someone and the same meter the just loss they get back immediately while waking up they should at least lower the speed build if your running away
I'm so old I call Alex, "Nephew Valle".
I've been saying the same thing about SF6 for the longest. Round start ex hadokens, a bar of recharging meter especially on zoners, and being able to wake-up dp 3 times in a row (or more because the meter recharges) and then still be able to do a wakeup super (a lvl 3, or 3 lvl 1 supers) is complete madness.
I sorta agree about the drive meter gain should be moving forward, but the fact that it’s also drained by blocking is the give and take of the system because, it’s already scary to be in burnout, imagine not being able to dictate the pace after a reversal, let alone blocking it for punish counter sending you into a potential 2/3 drive loss + corner carry. The snowballing effect is already insane.
We had invincible DPs for decades before capcom started charging meter for them and people managed it fine. Wakeup supers might be overtuned, but they cost you real meter, which can cost you games. If your opponent is doing 3 wakeup DPs and a wakeup super in the same round and you actually lose to that you need to quit mashing buttons on the other dude's wakeup.
@@SonicBoyster Well said. At lower levels, wakeup DPs and supers are a nightmare. At the Master and Legend level, you see it sparingly and those that occasionally mash them, get punished severely. IDom is just whining. Manon is an oppressive player, even without the projectiles and neutral skips. A couple of command grabs and it's over. That kind of character makes you press and max out to survive.
@@PGO_Gaming that is not true. If you watched the EWC there were non stop wakeup supers. This not something that just occurs at a lower level. Also I am Master rank.
@@SonicBoyster To describe applying oki pressure as mashing on someone's wakeup is crazy to me. And thats not the point. Anyone can bait a dp but the way the abundance of meter is set up in sf6 makes it so that you have to keep guessing even on your offensive pressure. That is a problem. You are constantly rolling a dice and with lvl 3 you are rolling a dice on your offensive pressure for half of your health.
It does seem like too much of a checkmate to get such big damage and get burn out. It would make more sense for it to to just let you have a sliver for supers. Then on the wake up situation there will be the wake up OD move play or getting the last hit to burn them out
I disagree about wake up super being too strong in this game. although the damage and drive meter if you hit are nice, if your lvl 3 gets punished by DI into lvl 3, that's almost an guaranteed stun
Happy to see an upload schedule
Can’t wait to see more
Without throw loops, wakeup parry is still punishable if you’re close enough to throw its recovery
Third strike had that strong wakeup supers.
IDK Supers are hilariously negative on block (-100 in some cases) and most characters can punish for like 30 to 40 percent with just the drive gauge you get to start round one. So wakeup super is a thing but it is checked by the fact that you detonate if you guess wrong. Same with OD DP. Good SF6 characters are "two touch" killers. The reversal stuff is there to give you the feeling of "agency". If you as the defender had guessed right and counter DI'd, perfect parried, wakeup DP or Super, you would have won or at least not lost on the spot.
I feel like SF6 is the most "fair" entry in a long time.
Totally agree with this. Pro player can jack shit about sf6 game design when reality it is the most fair game design choice.
Depends. Some character don't have wakeup dp for example.
@@aml2548 And they are at a disadvantage. But they do have DI Reversal and their own supers. If you corner Manon, Zangief, and Lily, and mash upon their wakeup, their wakeup Level 3's will take half of your life bar. That's why you always have a healthy fear of them as you approach (along with command grab threat)
Plus you can react parry after super freeze frame and getback 3-4 drive bars for MAX damage combos.
wake up lvl 3 in marvel 3 def kills at half health lmao
obviously it's different risk reward but yknow, u asked
I guess Idom got a more dedicated editor now? Will be watching with great interest.
Why don't they make all reversals with invincibility do grey life damage by your reasoning? Not that I think that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Of course du agrees he plays guile if they took away meter regeneration guile would be a damn nightmare
Good run. Too salty about wake up supers though lmao.
He complains about random super when he did a wake up super ? You have to watch their meter and be ready for it if it doesn’t blow you up in a combo that ends in a super…. Super is your power move of course if your only defending neutral they going to try to surprise you
thought this was gonna be about the metric system…
I feel like wake up supers are fine, DP is fine. Yeah Akuma’s fireball is stupid and Ken and Rashid exist but I honestly feel like a lot of these guessing games can be fun, as long as it’s a first to five. All the elements that make this game SF6 are the guessing games, but you kinda need more rounds so that players can start meta gaming and making educated guesses based on previous rounds. SF6 feels built around long, complex, educated guessing games and smart conditioning through a set and first to 2 just isn’t enough time. I know first to five can take forever but I feel like that it shouldn’t be reserved for top 8’s only. At least let us go for 5 in ranked for practice.
idom doing a random DI and getting punished "That was a drive reversal and i got punished for it" no bro it was a drive impact, you didn't hit forward. you didnt do the input. I swear to god you could make a compilation of Idom making the same excuses as DSP and it'd be like 15 minutes long at least. The game made me lose. Random super. I didn't do that. I was blocking. That was Drive Reversal not Drive Impact. The game didn't give me a parry.
I agree. Thats why i love meters in sfv
Me at 1700MR just lost to a 1100MR scrub Ryu just because Wake up super takes half+ health....It's just too much, there should be massive scaling for that.
I agree...I am that wake-up super scrub who occasionally takes games by chancing it. it should NOT be so rewarding -- even when I win i feel like a fraud.
But the other half of your health must've been sick reads and outplays, right?
This is a massive problem with the points system too, someone way less skilled can still just get a win off random super or basic hit confirm into super. Then you lose 1.5 or even 2 drive bars, you can end up burned out in the corner it's so much reward for just basically doing some scrub shit.
It's practically a given to expect more invincible reversals among lower level players. The right play was to hold back on oki pressure and outplay them in neutral etc. I don't have much problems with lower level players at all because I fgc ollow that strategy of out playing them in neutral, not giwing them possible RPS wins.
And plus, they would still wake up reversal even when I don't pressure them. Free punish.
try blocking
I've always wanted them to change dps so that there's cool down like there is on drive rush. Sometimes people can pretty much just spam Dp and even when they burnout they still have reversal super. Top tiers all have Dp and level 1 with fast startup, you basically can't checkmate them.
I appreciate your honesty as a player. I feel like most players don’t tell the truth, but you do and that makes you my favorite player to support. Keep up the great work!
I don’t get why he’s complaining about random supers when he does it on wake up? That’s not random af?
It bothers me when ppl complain about when they losing to something but use it there self to win wtf
@@shaieresmirnoff Well hold on. He still wants to compete and win, so you do whatever it takes to win. Doesn’t mean that you think it is skillful, or well designed.
@@shaieresmirnoff he is complaining that there’s too many options for the defensive player to do something random to get out of offense. He is a top player at multiple games, so he genuinely can tell major gameplay differences between them. I’ve been playing street fighter forever, so I also can tell major gameplay differences between them. The ability to have three supers, Perfect parry, multiple dragon punches, combined with the ease of execution and huge buffer window has drastically changed how many times player can get out of offense. it becomes so much that it becomes a major guess at all times and he believes it’s too much to make a stable game. I agree with him.
I think sf6 is ass but for completely opposite reasons: Sure there's a ton of options to get out of pressure. But being pressured is far too punishing. Especially for characters with no dp.
The looping oki due to DR and overloaded mental stack on defense from having to take DI into consideration. And the fact that drive reversal is so bad...
It all adds up to aggression being hyper privileged over defense.
im glad you learned that your meter management is shit by playing joey. now work on those confirms lol.
Best Manon!😊😊, I learn a lot of things from you, keep it up!
So why would I watch a channel that cries all day about the game? This is so tiring Idom.If you don't like the game then dont make videos everyday about it.
It is clearly the game design is pushing people to be play rush in the beginning. Seems like some people still play this game like sf5. Clearly some Manon players like Randumb and joey didn't play like how sf5 does but what sf6 design for. I think you just play the wrong way
And for the super and wake dp, I think you forget if baited out of those, their life could easily a goner especially you have full stock meter and lvl 3 stock.
Being manon with no reversal forces you to do supers on wake up. This game literally forces you to do random supers. The worse street fighter in terms of randomness you never seen such things by pro players in street 4
@@westleytimothee8466with offense being so op as well it gives you no choice. In sf4 at least you could just block and not worry about losing meter or being hit by Di, plus you didn't get full combos from overheads. It was so much better and far more skill and depth to it
@@remylebeau34 couldn’t agree more. Street fighters always gave you an option to be defensive or offensive this game is all offense honestly and hurts people who block its dumb.
@@westleytimothee8466 there is nothing random about a wakeup super. sit down DSP
@@mattb6616lmaooo do waking up randomly with a super isn’t random lmaoo. You realize wake up dp has been known as the most scrub thing in street fighter lol. Wake up super is even worse
Yeah, never liked regenerating meter myself. Also not a fan of supers being separate from your EX meter.
3rd Strike has the best meter system imo.
If he thinks this game is bad then he wasn’t around for Wakeup Ultra. Only random lvl3 is worthwhile. Supers are so weak in this game
Yeah I think wake-up ultra is way worse…it does half life for some ultras and u get it once or twice a round man…complete bs 😂😂😂😂
Regenerating meter is such a horrible design choice. It is beyond mind boggling how this design got green lit for sf6
Average IQ at capcom is luke warm these days.
I feel like it helps lower level players. Otherwise, they'd get burnt out so often
@@dragonic22 I'm really tired of this argument about helping new players. Everyone has been a new player at some point. Why make the game worse for 80% of your audience for a potential imaginary numbers 20% "new" audience who might not even realize or care about what you changed for them.
@@Kek_VS_oopsI'm not sure that math checks out. Because SF6 was a lot of people's first fighting game
@@dragonic22 You have the exact numbers on that?