001: THE CAGE Review & Discussion
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ค. 2023
- Star Trek School is in session!
Just like Star Trek itself began, we filmed a pilot episode that originally wasn’t going to air. But we’re pulling it out of the vault anyway.
We learned a lot doing this, and can't wait to do more. Future episodes will include live watch parties, live zoom calls, special guests, and most importantly: lots of learning about Star Trek.
TEE001 - Star Trek: TOS s1e1 "The Cage"
The crew from The Shuttlepod Show sits down and watches the one that started it all: THE CAGE
Resident film/television critic Joe Banno has reviewed The Cage. We all discuss it and the episode and have a lot of fun.
Izaak Brown from Unplanned Trek podcast joins us to hand out medals for best and worst moments and challenges us to a game of The Cage Trivia.
We have a lot of fun and learn a lot about how to do this new show and hope you enjoy learning more about Star Trek as much as we do!
Some Nerd Juice about The Cage:
Completed: Jan 22, 1965
Released: Oct 15, 1988
This episode was rejected by the network (NBC).
Directed by: Robert Butler
Written by: Gene Roddenberry
The events of this episode take place:
-4 years before Disco Season 2
-5 years before SNW
-12-13 years before TOS episode "The Menagerie" which used footage directly from this episode
If you enjoy this show, please like and subscribe! It's so important and appreciated!
We have merch! Check it out here, or head to our website:
www.shuttlepodshow.com
The watch party for this episode will be available to our Patreon members.
If you'd like to contribute more to the sustainability of the show, please consider becoming a Patreon member. You will have access to significant exciting membership perks including extended unabridged episodes, live events priorities, behind the scenes access and much more. We are committed to building an engaging immersive community experience for our Patreon Members while remaining dedicated to our vision of making our interviews freely available to the public on TH-cam. Your help makes that happen.
Patreon: / shuttlepodshow
Thumbnail photo: Nick and Sarah Simile; Simile Photography
Follow us:
Insta: @shuttlepodshow
Twitter: @shuttlepodshow
Facebook: @shuttlepodshow
www.shuttlepodshow.com - บันเทิง
![THE TOYS x NONT TANONT - ดอกไม้ที่รอฝน (spring) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pPa1d5cC8M4/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ไฮไลต์] ฟุตบอลชาย ฝรั่งเศส vs อเมริกา รอบแบ่งกลุ่ม | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oZ9aSS0NEEg/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank the gods for Lucille Ball, cause if it wasn't for her, there would be no Star Trek.
STAR TREK SCHOOL! Excellent.
I love Lucille Ball. ❤
I love them both! ❗❗❗
Amen to that. In one of Here's Lucy episode there is a job collating machine in the office and Lucy remarks it looks like something from Star Trek.
Not just the production...but so many shows utilizing a 3 camera setup.
I think you forgot to mention that, when capstan Pike is gone and Number 1 takes over, everyone listens to her, they respect her. She’s in charge during the conference to decide how to rescue the captain, and it’s only incidental that she is a woman’s. For something filmed or released in 1966, this was extraordinary.
Indeed, thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah him call her dehumanised really galled me. This guy is a bit of a dick.
Excellent point and we discussed that about her conference room scene where she was clearly in command with no “caveats”- Star Trek inspired all kinds and helped move us forward as a society. I think the question we focused on was “was that Roddenberry’s intention- that juxtaposition? or were those other “women on the bridge” moments an actual artifact of the time. Thank you for contributing here!!
Excellent point… I forgot that scene🤦🏻♀️
Given the make up of Kirk's crew: Sulu, Uhura, (later) Chekov, Spock you want to give the benefit of doubt to Gene.
Rand did serve the underling role later but did get great promotions. Grace Lee Whitney was the real life example of women's status though, and how she was treated
Interesting interview. For context sake, Number 1 is a common Navy term around the world for the second in command of the ship. That's why it's used again by Picard in TNG and ST: Picard
This is true and in those later shows it's definitely a term of endearment. I think it would have worked in this version as well if it wasn't for the sexism around it. It has a "I don't think of you as a woman" kind of vibe. It's also got a sense of "The way you make a strong female character is you remove the feminine aspects"
I am ex military, I never heard the second in command called "number one". I have heard the term XO (Executive Officer)
@@glee21012 I'm retired military as well, and it's a real naval expression, not just on Trek - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-in-command
duh
@@wearwolf2500and yet for the time even doing that was absurd, there's a reason the studio told Roddenberry to remove her
I am new to the shuttlepod show and I love it as well as the people who are responsible who make it! Please keep up the great interviews. I think that having Conner and Dominic do the interviews gives a uniqueness and weight that other media don’t have. They’ve been in the factory making the product themselves and understand the time, effort, energy, joy, and annoyance it takes to be apart of Trek and in show business. Thank you for your channel and very great and uplifting content. Thank goodness for the shuttlepod 1 episode of Enterprise!
Thank you Anthony! We hope to be doing his a long time! We appreciate the support and kind words.
Come to think of it, the episode shuttlepod 1 would have turned off the NBC execs just as the cage did - too intellectual. I disagree I thought it was marvelous
What you are missing is the Number 1 character was originally the logical member of the crew.
That's a great observation, tjj300! STAR TREK SCHOOL! Thank you!
@@ShuttlepodShow From what I've read about the history of Trek, the earliest drafts of Number One her origins were vague - mysterious woman who was very logical. Indeed after the show was changed to the second pilot her logical character aspect was transferred to Spock. Further interesting development came about with the first Pike era novel (Vulcan's Glory) written over 30 years ago by DC Fontana. She talked about the character with Majel Barrett and that novel, so far as I know, if the first time Number One was referenced as being from Illyria (tho' in that novel it wasn't clear to me if they were an offshoot human colony or a different species) who did practice 'selective breeding'.
I always thought the vibe and color palate of the pilot was very similar to those of Forbidden Planet. Kind of a dry sci-fi. I liked it but maybe the times dictated the need for the brighter vibrant colors and atmosphere to continue.
@@Bravehorizon1 I love the art in Forbidden Planet. I don't recall where I read it now but I do recall reading that Roddenberry was very inspired by Forbidden Planet when creating Star Trek
@@p.phillips291 That makes total sense. As I think it about it more, there is the similar idea of the mind being so powerful as to manifest physical reality, except in the ST pilot, it was the Talosians, whereas in FP, we harnessed the power from alien technology.
In 1960s men and men who lived through the 60s men thought they were being gallant. Roddenberry was a veteran and that was how they respected and protected the Women's Army Corps. They were military rules for the time. I joined the Army 3 years after women became soldiers. The comment that was made to Number One was a compliment to her ability and position of authority. It was a pat on the shoulder. I was the senior enlisted woman in a Combat Heavy Engineer Battalion at a time when women were only allowed months before. Most had non authoratative job specialities. To some leaders female soldiers were in the way, incompetent, a nuisance to be looked out for, or there daughters. The entire country would not have had a problem with these comments at that time,
Thank you. This is a prime example of why we need to be able to understand nuance when discussing "triggering" subjects like male female roles at any given point in history. We need context.
This was great. I will say though, I don't think you guys need a guest. This is not a criticism of this particular guest, who was fine. I just think this new show can totally fly with Dom, Conner, Erica and Mark. Felt like i missed you guys a bit this round. The main crew were a bit overshadowed.
Definitely, and ill even say whoever that guy is really brought it down.
Yes, I just posted something similar. We don't need 10 minutes of some professional critic when we are here for Connor and Dom. But the show does need someone to guide the discussion and make sure all the points get hit.
@@ThreadBomb I will say, that thanks to the comments about the big idea in The Cage, along with a post about the episode Shuttlepod 1, I suddenly thought of Shuttlepod 1 in place of The Cage as the maiden show. The NBC execs would have turned thumbs down on Shuttlepod 1 for the same reason they did for The Cage. I hadn't thought about that before.
@@ThreadBomb totally. I feel like Mark and Erica do fine guiding the show along.
I don't know, I mean keep on as long as he gets push back. I want to see how the audience would respond to that kind of programming.
Number 1... is an old Naval term used around the world from CO (Commanding Officer) to XO (eXecutive Officer or 2nd in command) it means the XO it literally means the Captain's "number one" or go to person is the second 2nd in command replacement if anything happens to the captain. The XO is first in line for that promotion
Has anyone watched TNG? That is how Picard refers to Riker.
On the format: I for one like the "best, worst" categories, I think they add some structure to the conversation and give everyone a chance to contribute. I think you might want to rotate the reviewer, and keep it mainly to 50% recap, 50% review.
To Joe regarding the breathable atmospheres and humanoid aliens: it was the budget, man. Its always the budget.
I like the concept here. It just felt a little bit all over the place to me personally. Maybe add some more structure - like categories of discussion that prompt those that wish to comment but also let the listener know where we're at. Like set design, writing, special moments.
Nbc reportedly called the pilot "too cerebral", "too intellectual", and "too slow" with "not enough action". Rather than rejecting the series outright, the network commissioned - in an unusual, and at the time unprecedented, move - a second pilot, which then became Star Trek: Where No Man Has Gone Before (1966).
Nailed it! See! Star Trek School! Thank you Yuckster
They would have loved TNG
Of course the material from ‘The Cage’ wasn’t wasted and recycled in the 2-parter ‘The Menagerie’ later on in the 1st season.
@@Lego6980 now, as you no doubt know, You are able to see all of the cage. And it's much better than the second pilot.
@@RingsLoreMaster yes. I rewatched it and the Menagerie in light of this Shuttlepod episode.
Can you tell me which was the subsequent pilot for TOS - I’m getting a little confused about the order. Something about the pilot episode not actually being the first in the series. (I’m not talking about ‘The Cage’, which was cancelled of course). Can you enlighten me?
I don't know how i lived without this youtube channel in my life. You guys somehow know the type of content I want, that I didn't know about. That includes the in depth long form int3erviews with cast and crew and now this. The production quality is great, your choice of guests is always spot on. Please keep doing this for years to come!
Villy! You are awesome! Thank you! We hope to keep getting better.
To imitate Spock, and paraphrase a wise and well-known adage: improve or die. I guess that works for the entertainment business, unfortunately it doesn't always apply to real life. Except where Trump's concerned. He doesn't need to improve an evil he's awfully to good already. Comment about the former president because of Dom's comment about fascist planets that needed to be saved by the federation in general and whichever captain and crew the show was about in particular. See for instance Strange New Worlds' first episode.
I thought this was a bit of a mess. Sorry guys, I'd be happier just having Conner, Dom, Mark and Erica watch an episode and talk about what they thought of it.
Yeah. I don't get shoe horning some guy that has nothing to do with Trek and doesn't care for it into the conversation. I would be a better guest.
I have to agree. This was a really bad idea. This guy is really has no believability. A Terrible Terrible guest.
I think that was a pretty fair review ... for a pilot for a Scifi series in the mid 60's with the baggage it has from 50+ years ago!
This was released in 66 ... the same year as The Beatles Revolver and the end of NASA's Gemini missions.
There is both good and bad. The re-slicing of The Cage into the only TOS double episode The Menagerie was a great use of the original pilot material.
I look forward to the review for 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'.
Thank you Mark! We agree with you 100% Thank you for watching and for contributing here!
Please don't miss out on Farscape. Though some of the aliens are essentially muppets, It is the only Sci Fi series other than Star Wars that have non humanoid aliens walking around.
Wonderful discussion -- thanks @The Shuttlepod Show ! Really enjoyed the Discord Watch Party before this discussion too!
Thank you Mohamed! We can't wait to do our next watch party. We are even more excited to have Live Watch parties with us on set all watching together.
If you see the radio operator's seat on a B-17, the seating choice on TOS isn't a surprise. It's a callback to WW2 in a lot of ways. Even that thing Spock look into on the bridge is a reimagining of the cone over the radar display that was supposed to help see the data better.
SEE! STAR TREK SCHOOL! We are learning more already! Thank you for watching and for sharing that!
@@ShuttlepodShow Roddenberry's WW2 experience figures huge in TOS. The Enterprise's sister ship is, I think, the Yamato.
@@525Lines thought that was TNG, but yes indeed
@@alvincura Right! Yes! TNG.
@ShuttlepodShow I knew Gene was a B17 pilot but didn't know about the seating comparison. The names are WWII aircraft carriers with a smattering of international names added. Yamamoto was avaliable but I don't know if it is mentioned in tostos
I LOVE this. I love that you watch and chat about episodes of Trek to actually explore the fandom as a person, not just "Oh i worked there". I love the idea that you have the opportunity to experience why people are avid fans of these shows. I love it.
Connor, Dom, Erica and Mark - congrats on the launch of your new segment! Admittedly, I was under the impression it was going to be all of you sitting down and watching the episode in real time and discussing it, but I understand maybe the logistics of that (getting everyone in the same room, schedules lining up, etc) might be tougher to pull off than the format you ultimately chose. Having guests other than yourselves to discuss The Cage was a little jarring, but not entirely unwelcome. I would've liked to hear more of Erica's input on this episode, especially on the treatment of women and how that (understandably) didn't sit well with her. Hearing her expand on her thoughts pertaining to that scene on the bridge would've been insightful to hear. All and all, not a bad start on what I hope proves to be an interesting new edition to the Pod. Happy Shuttlepod Sunday everyone! 😊💚🖖🍃
I thought they would be watching it together as well.
Hello Hal- Yeah- this was our test shoot and we decided to release it to get feedback. Also, yes, we did watch the episode immediately in advance of the conversation, but since we aren't able to play that on TH-cam for copyright reasons, we are experimenting with how to best do that. But the "Watch Party" part of this is a big goal of ours. Thank you for watching and commenting! This new show will get better and is designed to include the community!
@@ShuttlepodShow I think this would be worth doing more of with other episodes. Maybe you could let us know what the next episode would be ahead of time so that we could rewatch it so it would be even better. I say rewatch because let's face it, anyone watching this has seen all of the shows and sometimes we even beat Mark on the quiz answers! Lol
I thought this was fine. Seems it's a long the lines of the 7th Rule podcast. Been of fan since it started.
Since this show started, I mean I like the 7th rule, too. Just the parallel of former Trek actors doing a show.
I was about to critique this new format of the show - then realized you guys are simply trying to produce new content. And I applaud that effort. Some of your attempts will be "hit and miss" but at the core you have great guests and have wonderful conversations between friends. This reminds me of the tv show "Cheers" where everybody knows your name. It is so comforting to watch. Like a warm blanket!
Kevin this is precisely the kind of comment that warms our hearts. We are not going to get rid of our normal format, in fact we hope to keep improving it. As for this new show, it will improve significantly going forward. And not everything needs to be everyone's cup of tea, right? Thank you for the thoughtful comment. We appreciate you.
Kevin really hit the nail on the head here.
I agree, the guest interviews must continue - they are like being a fly on the wall in a LA living room with an actor having a dinner party for ex-colleagues. Warm, fun, nostalgic, funny... all the good feels 🤗
This is a really enjoyable format spawning an interesting discussion. Episode reviews would be a great addition moving forward. As always, looking forward to more! 🖖
Jus subbed two days ago and the content is evolving. Poifect timing.
Excellent! Welcome!
Great idea! Gutted I won’t make the watch-alongs live, but good luck and thank you for this new extra format:)
Thank you!
I'm a huge fan of the shuttle pod show and loving this departure from the regular show. What a great idea revewing episodes of the shows.!!! Please do more!!! Best regards- Kenny
Oh my god id LOOOOVVVVE a watch along series where you guys through every episode and talk about it! Holy smokes that would tickle my trek fancy
In regards to the sexism talk and how it come off as terrible now but it seemed like they were trying. I think it's a case of if you start at 1, 10 seems like a lot. Number 1 got removed from the next pilot because the studio didn't like the idea of a woman being second command of the ship. So that shows how bold and forward of a move it was at the time.
The Cage was considered too cerebral by executives and eventually came the Man Trap but with that and Where No Man Has Gone Before, it was fun experimenting across three pilots to see which feeling was right.
STAR TREK SCHOOL! Boom!
@@ShuttlepodShow really NBC was kind of pissed because they felt they’d been duped plus they didn’t like a lot of the actors especially Majel Barrett because she was Roddenberry’s mistress
The Man Trap wasn't a pilot, the series had already been commissioned for however many episodes the network wanted. I'm not sure but I think I read somewhere that the Man Trap was the 5th or 6th episode filmed but the suites wanted that episode to be aired first
I think I remember reading that the Execs wanted more action.
Love this and would love to rewatch these shows with this cast and hear thoughts. Wonderful idea and time and can’t wait and hope for more. Long live Trek and you all! 🎉
Does Connor have a sore throat - or has he just given up? (I didn’t like the ‘critic’ either).
FaithnSn he had a sore throat that day, I believe you can see him coughing a lot in the episode (though we tried to minimize it). Given up what? Talking? I don't understand. Joe is great. His journey from having never seen an episode of Star Trek to now, where he's an excited fan, is really fun and that's what this show is about... talking about our favorite show and learning more about it and hopefully turning non-fans into new fans! Thank you for watching and for commenting!
@@ShuttlepodShow It’s your show, obviously. But i just didn’t like the guy. 🤷🏼♀️. And the Connor thing - i meant had he given up trying to compete with Dom 😆 (No offense intended). I’m sorry i didn’t like Joe but I know I’m not the only one.
@@FaithnSin sad for all of humanity. How will we ever recover? I just read your previous comments and you hate a lot. So… you know… haters keep hating. Cool for you, broh. Let’s all just shit on everything on the internet ‘cause all the girls will love us for that. Lame.
@@mjcartier are you high? The majority of my comments are positive.
Honestly dont love the film critic guy, but loved the main conversation with dom and connor
Very pretentious guy it seems pretty cringey, but yeah loved the discussion from the main guys and erica
I always have trouble when a new person joins a podcast I enjoy, so I have to make a conscious effort to push through that and give them a chance.
That said, if he's going to keep harping on how every episode of Star Trek ever made doesn't look like "Avatar", he's going to wear out my patience fast.
It was a bit unusual to have a critic that had never ever seen a single Star Trek episode.
Thank you Clone! That's great. The conversation was as it was because of the context of Joe's review. That's why we have him, to start an engaging conversation about the depths of our favorite show: Star Trek! Sometimes he'll say things we agree with, sometimes we will feel like we need to protect our baby Star Trek, sometimes we will learn things we hadn't considered or seen yet - the conversation is what I'm excited about! And without a critical eye, we'd all just be sitting on stage looking at each other. Thank you for watching, thank you for contributing here!
Yeah, same thing. His critique of the show is what the conversation was. We will agree, disagree, love, not love, but it will always start a great conversation and that's the goal! Thank you for watching and for commenting
Funny enough, when star trek celebrated 20 years, they aired a special that teased season 2 of tng and they aired The Cage on tv for the first time. I was 12 at the time, it blew my mind to see the original concept of trek
My god, I love the fact that you’ve started this series and I cannot wait for the coming episodes!!!! 🖖🏽
If folks are talking about the premiere animation it is one of the options You Tube has called sci Fi when creators upload their show. I use it for our podcast as well.
Great review and loved seeing this. I saw that episode when my Pop tuned in and I was 5 years old in 1966. Crazy stuff and how we have watched the world change.
Thank you Wardogheim! It will get better! This was our first test run.
Fans like you paved the way for fans like me. Thank you guys for getting the ball rolling so to speak. I have immense respect and reverence for the elder fans. They're like elder wiseman lol. Full of wisdom and enough life lessons to fill a star cruiser.
You guys are the og's. Lol.
You guys were fans of Kirk saving the universe when our grandfather's were in diapers. Lol.
I'm happy to see you reviewing Star Trek episodes, from the beginning!
So happy to have found the "Shuttlepod Show"! You guys are great!
Thank you Matthew!
I’m very happy that Strange New Worlds is out there now to give the lead trio from this very episode discussed a chance to shine. There did seem to be a great deal of potential with them, but it wasn’t until recently that they finally got their chance to show their potential. Essentially, The Cage is the pilot episode of SNW, longest pilot to series order as said by Akiva Goldsman!
I love SNW! Someone was saying on our Discord today that Pike and Kirk are the only two characters with three actors who have portrayed them. Thank you for watching and thank you for participating here!
@@ShuttlepodShow I don’t understand why SNW insists that it’s in the same universe as THE CAGE. They made no sense with the clips as the characters and ship don’t look the same at all.
they need to get rid of ortega lana uhuru and chappel...worst characters ever
@@esecallum Three points against what you just said:
1. SNW is only a season in. Those characters haven’t had a full opportunity to be fleshed out. All respect to Dominic, but if Enterprise had only lasted one season, Malcolm Reed would’ve been seen as a failure simply because the character wasn’t exceptionally well written at that point. It wasn’t until the Xindi arc and Section 31 stuff that his character truly was fleshed out.
2. Because the show is only a season in, and confirmed for two more, it’s too soon to place any judgement on any of the characters. The writers are still working on figuring out what works and what doesn’t. And they don’t have much to do since the first season was already decent enough.
And 3. For goodness SAKES, learn to spell!!
@@mem1701movies there's plenty in The Cage that doesn't make sense for it to be in the same universe as the rest of Star Trek either. Recasting and updating sets and models to modern quality doesn't mean it's in a different universe. Is TOS in a separate universe because the Klingons look different?
🧡🦁🧡I cannot wait to see you guys on the other side of Trek Uni as the watchers! 🧡🦁🧡 Nice to see Mark on the other side of the lens! Enjoying all! - Lisa
Thank you Lisa!
I tremendously love this new show/style of show. Very much enjoy the mix of perspectives (fresh outsider critique, relatively younger viewer, seasoned Trekkie, and the insider perspective from Connor and Dom).
Can’t wait to see you guys tackle the second pilot “Where No Man Has Gone Before”!
You are amazing! 100% our objective - we cannot wait to improve on this test and really dig into the awesomeness that is Trek!
I've been watching The Shuttlepod Show since it started and, not only have I thoroughly enjoyed learning more about the people behind the characters and the show as a whole, but the journeys they took to get there. What makes it even more enjoyable, and authentic, is that it's hosted by Dominic and Conner, who are a part of the Star Trek family and have gone through it themselves; they can relate to both the show and the industry which reflects in the quality of the episodes. In my opinion it wouldn't work if it was just hosted by anyone else as the genuine friendship and banter makes every episode sincere. The new format you're trying out is definitely something that I look forward to seeing more of. I do feel the need to help a fellow Brit out and say to Dominic that I've lost count the amount of times I've had the, "Well in England we say....", to my friends across the pond. Keep a stiff upper lip old boy, they'll understand one day.
Oh, what would it be like to be back at the beginning and to have never seen a Star Trek episode before! I envy Joe a bit, but I look forward to going on this journey with him and all of you. More, please!
Funny how I just discovered The Shuttlepod show while I'm currenty rewatching enterprise. Cant wait to get home and watch this one. Without The cage we wouldnt have the great episode the menagerie!
Welcome CyberMatt! Nice to have you!
I'll hopefully be watching every episode of Star Trek with you all; another great video.
One of my favorite episodes (shuttlepod show I mean). Please please Joe back for more like this!
I need to catch up on the main show. But I have just restarted TOS myself and am looking forward to this!
I loved the premise of this show, such a great idea! I know with all the difficulties of copyrights, it would be great to have the scenes played as they are discussed as a point of reference. Well done all, keep it up.
Great show guys. I recall watching The Cage on VHS tape when they found a colour print of the pilot in the archive section and Gene introduced the new print for all overjoyed Trekkies in the 1980s. Previously the pilot episode was only available in black and white print other than the scenes that were in The Menagerie Part 1 and Part 2 episodes.
I mean this is the next episode after 'Enterprise' ends.. so it would be fun to hear their thoughts on how it connects.
Hahaha. Nailed it.
Pike is essentially Archer who has been in space too long.
@@ShuttlepodShow I swear I read or saw an interview where Berman basically said that ENTERPRISE was an alternate universe due to the events of FIRST CONTACT. So the way he makes it’s TOS is in a universe all of its own (probably because he doesn’t like the original).
The Cage certainly retains more of the rugged feel that 'Enterprise' was going for.
Other than the basic story in The Cage, I don't consider the cast canon, because none of them carried over to TOS without major changes. The Menagerie fixes all those problems and should be considered the definitive events on Talos IV.
Not to mention The Cage was never released until 20 years after the original series ended.
Number One is a real title in many navies as the XO. Second in the command.
True. But the scene still comes across as sexist AND clunky!
It's a slight miscommunication of eras and organization understanding that the show really doesn't quite explain, as far as the navy/military is concerned. It doesn't quite translate to this time or era. You can't knock regular folk for not understanding that when Pike refers to Number One, by military standards of the old guard like Roddenberry, it means Number One isn't sexed...it's the officer's rank (XO). Neither male nor female, just Number One. Roddenberry was updating by having Pike say "I don't mean you Number One.", to show to the audience how the new service and ranks worked (women in the military front line operations wasn't around yet, especially officers, in combat roles).
It's like Roddenberry had a basic idea but not the full framework, since he does send Yeomen out the door for being female, but my assumption is that Roddenberry is meaning OFFICER class is non-sexed, and enlisted is just...some kind of foot stool furniture thing.
They actually keep in line with that with "Mr." preceding crew members names in later shows (a specific navy thing, which includes females as Mister), and even specifically with Number One in SNW. I still don't get the line shouting by Nimoy on "The women!". Again...Roddenberry had an idea, and some framework, which comes out looking kind of weird even in that era (because it is ahead of the time), and especially now (because of complete temporal disconnect) taken out of context accidentally.
By the Kirk era, it's slim-lined somewhat better for the audience to understand.
I was Army, not Navy, but a Navy officer could explain way better.
In the Army, you address a female officer as "Ma'am" in answer (such as "Yes ma'am, Major Erica.") and any female non-officer by rank and last name (such as "Master Sarge Erica") with no reference to sex (you absolutely DO NOT say "ma'am" in answer or address, that is reserved only to civilians and officers). In the Navy, you address as "Yes sir, Lt. Erica." regardless of female or not, and if usual conversation, you address as "Mr. Erica...I need the warp core manual.". Do remember "Mister" isn't a sex, it is an officer designation and class.
It looks and sounds weird if taken out of context and out of time, to an audience that doesn't inherently know.
Again...sorry...have limited knowledge on the old Navy stuff since I was never Navy. All of it may have changed by now.
STAR TREK SCHOOL! This is awesome. thank you.
@@trynda1701 From our perspective yeah! it's sexist but It was 1965. The character of Number One was eliminated at the insistence on NBC execs. They thought the idea of a woman of command rank too outlandish and would be unacceptable to viewers. Change comes in small steps.
Sadly, Number One had to endure what a lot of "real" serious career minded women had to endure in the Sixties. You have to give Roddenberry credit in trying to put a women at such a high command position in that time. Unfortunately that scene on the bridge played about right for the times. It is creepy really.
Clunky - yes! Almost like they are too self aware of how strange her presence would be to the audience - in the sub-context for Pike as well. It is not our world of today.
The show would have been a lot different if this character had survived. She may have been a huge hit. Spock essentially filled the void left when they took her out.
@@ShuttlepodShow Just don't quote me on the Navy ranks, and stations. Number One is a station in a command crew, not a rank (that I remember, little fuzzy). When OFF the bridge, Mr. Erica would be addressed as LT. or Mr. Erica (LT by inferior ranks, Mr. by equal or superior ranks, and people that know her maybe as Number One around town...I think). On the bridge, Mr. Erica is addressed to as Number One by equal or superior (usually superior) ranks, but usually addressed by rank (LT. Erica). Equal or Superior ranks would address Lt. Erica as Mr. Erica.
I mean obviously those rules are "highly adjustable" by the time half the original series is done, from the way the real world works. People just randomly holler "SPOCK!" with no address later on. I mean...Bones has got to be a pretty high ranking officer, yet nobody ever even addresses him as one.
So weird.
I don't know any Navy Commodores or any of that to ask how it worked back in Roddenberry's day, or how it is has changed, or I would ask. Sorry.
**salutes Mr. LT. Erica & Mr. LT. Mark**
Time for me to swab the GNDN pipes again.
Later, space 'taters.
I absolutely loved it! I've always enjoyed a good healthy breakdown of a tv episode and you all pulled it off swimmingly! Gratz! 🖖🖖🖖
Thank you! We hope to improve considerably
@@ShuttlepodShow Yer doing perfectly fine. Nowhere to go but up. Thx for doing what you all do...🖖👍
Great first episode! Awesome idea to watch the Original Series. Looking forward to episode two 🖖
great concept, great execution all!
Thank you Ryan!
I grew up watching re-runs of TOS with my dad. I go back and watch them regularly along with TNG, Enterprise, etc. My dad is gone but I have so many great memories of he and I watching Star Trek together. Thanks guys.
This is awesome Roger. Thank you for watching and for sharing. Hope to see you back here again!
Great new concept guys and gal, and Wash of course. Starting with The Cage was a perfect start. One thing I remember cuz you were talking about budgets if I remember correctly the cage was the most expensive pilot that was ever produced at that time seems to me I remember reading that.
Its great to have a fresh set of eyes. A new perspective from joe banno! Welcome aboard.
I haven't seen The Cage for over 30 years but it was really fun listening to you guys discuss and critique it. Need to get Joe back as he was ace! Need to hear more from the Conner and Dominic makes me laugh, however, I felt Erica's pain at times...
Hahaha! Thank you. Glad you appreciate it and can’t wait to do more!
OK, Picard called Riker Number One, which refers not to gender, but rank in the crew. Namely, first officer.
Yes. I think the point of bringing that up in reference to Majel's character was not a gender questions but rather on top of the other social commentary "evidence of the times" stuff going on in that very first scene - she didn't even have a name. Riker was properly introduced as William Riker before Number One started getting thrown about.
I love this idea! To me, TOS and TNG have been the cornerstones of Trek that, I think, formed the Trek we know today (though it's evolving with the times and tastes of the current/modern audience) and I'm looking forward to more of these. Thanks for this guys~
Nice to see that subscriber count heading in the right direction, congrats!
Great conversation! Fun!
Thank you Monique!
I think it's really great to have someone who hasn't seen Star Trek give a fresh take. One and all, this is subjective, so I appreciate having someone call out things that I maybe overlook because I've seen "The Cage" 10-15 times over my life time, and I wear rose tinted glasses, unapologetically but I do. I'd like to hear his take on "Where No Man Has Gone Before", it was interesting for him to talk about the 'various' pilots of the original series, it's another fresh take, many of us would've watched them probably in production order in VHS and/or DVD and/or BD and/or Netflix etc, it didn't occur to me to watch them in broadcast order, but objectively, why wouldn't you (especially on a streaming service if they're put in that order).
I'm not sure what the future of these are but I hope there's more, I enjoyed this.
Here is my take on looking at TOS shows (and I'm old enough to have seen them new though barely and really got into them on the early reruns). Yes, you have to view them of their time but another key thing to do is think of the sets/props and effects as a "facsimile" of what they wanted to make. What seems like simple stuff today was impossible/incredibly expensive/took way too much time back in the mid-60s. Even visuals like having a view screen having motion video (like in the conference room) would be a costly effect.
Part of the reason for the transporter and the Universal Translator was to eliminate having to show people landing on planets and deal with the language issue. Yes, most people are "humanoid" because that is what they could do. There are non-humanoids in TOS but they are rare (The Gorn, The Medusan ambassador...etc.). But how much of a weekly TV budget are you going to blow on an elaborate non-human? As such, they tend to be not-shown or represented via lights and such.
And the breathable/livable planets are covered by the "Class-M" because yes, even in our solar system, we just have the one. If you didn't, then that would be the story...surviving on a non-humanoid planet. I think a more legitimate complaint would be the parallel development non-Earths that have the same evolution but with a twist and there are several TOS episodes that fit into that category, including beloved ones like "A Piece of the Action."
As to the sexism. Star Trek was pioneering. Yeah, compared to 2023 studio sensibilities, it seems primitive and to some barbaric. But in mid-60s, it was absolutely breakthrough. It was always a part of Star Trek that non-traditional (white-male) were placed in prominent positions. In "The Cage," having an alien (Spock) and a female (Number-1) were key characters that Roddenbery fought for. A read of various books about the start of the show and Gene's comments, those two were big ones for him but the studio wanted BOTH gone. Imagine Star Trek with no Spock? Another key was that we wouldn't fly to a planet and start killing all of the "aliens." Gene was able to keep spock but not #1. However, on balance, look at what he got into the show: Asians, Blacks, Women...all in prominent "bridge crew" or people of high regard (doctors, engineers, scientists). Doctors could be of any color or sex. You may spit on the primitive nature of these breakthroughs were, but you don't get to what you may consider "normal" or acceptable today without going through this era and the way Star Trek presented various people in roles of leadership. And, they had to do it in a manner that would be accepted in its era. Remember, it didn't do well in its original airings (numerous reasons there) but it did built on reruns/syndication...so, in a real sense, it was ahead of its time.
Oh, and as to Muppets...one word: Yoda (yes I know that is Star Wars but talk about a Muppet that people bought into).
Just watching you guys more and more, makes me feel good about being a human.
As Pooped - you are awesome. Thank you for the kind words
@@ShuttlepodShow If there were a way to magically get my stories told and shown to the world the same way Mr. Gene Roddenberry, Mr. George Lucas and Mr. Terry Matallas did the first place I would go to would be your show just to tell you guys how much you and the rest of the Star Trek family mean to all of us that would be absolutely fantastic. You grow up with star wars so that you can grow old with Star Trek. My name is Anakin Skywalker and I am a proud Star Trek fan.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Where No Man Has Gone Before technically start it all? The Cage was unaired until the late 80s, in fact it was released on VHS before it was shown in it's entirety on network television.
You are not wrong about the airdates, but The Cage was the first Star Trek ever produced. We weren't sure if this was going to work so we thought we'd start with the original pilot as it didn't necessarily work the way they expected. Like Star Trek, we have to re-jigger this a bit to get it right!
My favorite moment is when Pike threatens to test his hypothesis about the phaser on the Caretaker's Skull. Such a bad-ass moment.
Love this! Love everything you do! Review every episode, please!
But do it in a fun way, like in chronological order!!!
@@BigCowProductions chronological as they did or the stupid AIRDATE order that never made sense to me. They only started that with the DVDs as it used to be syndicated in the more logical PRODUCTION ORDER.
So I've been a Star Trek fan pretty much most of my life I've only just discovered this podcast but I love do by age TNG was my jumping on point to Star Trek I've always considered Star Trek Enterprise to be. This is amazing keep this up
I think this is a great lineup. I am looking forward to the next episode!
For me the charm of the show is that it feels like a book club type of thing or like going to your local sci-fi fan club and talking with your old friends and new friends about sci-fi stuff. Nerds are cool.
Loved this episode, great format 👍. Hello Izaak from a fellow Tasmanian🙋🏼♀️. What a coup being on this show 😃. Talking about Kirk being a sexy character, I always have a giggle when they used to give him that soft veiled look in closeups with the eyelashes being front and centre😅😊.
That was wonderful 🙃
Crazy coincidence… I literally just watched the TOS pilot for the first time ever yesterday. I saw all the other TOS episodes in the 80’s but never the pilot!
Hahaha! How perfect.
Hmmmm, I like the concept of reviewing other Star Trek shows and for a first time episode it was truly well done. However I feel that with the 4 of you Erica, Mark, Connor and Dom it would run extremely well especially the way you all do your research especially Dom, maybe every now and then bring on a guest critic just for another perspective. All in all a wonderful show and a great nostalgic trip, also it's great to see the view numbers always increasing. Cheers 🍷🍷Ed from South Australia
This is good. I would very much like to see this continue alongside the interview shows.
I’m looking forward to this.
I started watching recently, and have really enjoyed these podcasts. I have a bit of a crush on Erica. She's smart, beautiful, and asks good questions and adds thoughtful commentary. I don't know how she ended up on this gig, but you guys are lucky to have her on board.
It's me again. In the original series, the trope of all the aliens spoke English was to save money and simplify scripts. It was explained that the communicators they carried automatically translated the languages.
As a kid who grew up in the 1960s--a very forward-looking time with respect to the future of technology, healthcare, and space travel in addition to a time of social turmoil--STAR TREK's primary calling card was as a window into what SPACE EXPLORATION might be like IF YOU WERE THERE. And indeed the series was the audience's way of PARTICIPATING in space exploration via a glimpse of a future era when all the technological development and bugs that we saw NASA still working out slowly over months and years for the Apollo Program would be a thing of the past. The ''character' on the show which most embodied the 'boldly going' aspect of day-to-day, window-on-the-future space exploration for us was the ENTERPRISE herself. The living characters were the human condition aspect of the future but it was that incredible SHIP that took them--and us--there every week. This is the context of the time into which I remember STAR TREK--and "The Cage"--entering during that wonderful decade of burgeoning television.
Switching gears: What I've learned the most vividly from watching THE SHUTTLEPOD SHOW is just how DIFFERENT the experience of TREK actors is from that of their audience. For the actors--and directors, producers, writers, crew, etc.--a show is all about Hollywood, getting/working a job, maintaining representation, negotiating this, that, and everything, hitting a mark, memorizing lines on short deadlines, living in the moment during long production hours, dealing with L.A. traffic and living expenses, trying to catch your big break, and negotiating the whole WORLD of show business and the vagaries of its personalities and internal politics for years on end. For the audience, it's all about BEING TOLD A STORY in a larger anthology of stories-of-the-imagination. Actors and their audience see the same show from very different sides of the mirror. I've frankly been repeatedly surprised that actors in a show haven't always seen all or sometimes any of it! Yet, I understand how the demands of production on their time can easily lead to this.
If I could, I would apologize to every actor who's ever had awkward or even dangerous interactions with any of their fans who, on some subliminal level at least, think that the actors really ARE their characters. We're all too greatly fooled just by the familiarity of faces and voices we've spent storytelling time with, it seems. That fans do to some ongoing degree confuse actors with their characters is a testament to good writing, acting, and production, and to the POWER of visual storytelling to help their audience suspend disbelief. It's also what helps make actors a wanted 'commodity' in their careers. But some of us suspend our disbelief TOO thoroughly because television or film is easily a hypnotic medium which we WANT to believe is real because, as Spock would have said, when it's well done it's just so 'fascinating.'
So: Actors--PLEASE FORGIVE US when some of us who lack experience IN FRONT OF the camera forget that WE are just an audience for believable/escapist ART rather than witnessing reality. That's both the point AND the inherent curse of televisic and filmic art as well, isn't it? Actors--Please also think back to instances when you were in the audience too, before you understood television, film, and theater from the stage perspective, and FORGIVE those of us who only have 'audience seating' as our context for who you actually are and what you do. Interviews help bridge the perception gap for many people, so I thank you for letting us in on the reality of yourselves too.
SHUTTLEPOD SHOW GANG: Another wonderful episode! Thanks, y'all!
One of my favorite eps is Vox Sola, because it tries to imagine what it might be like to actually try to communicate with a truly alien lifeform (other than your actor-of-the-week-with-something-glued-to-his-forehead)
Totally agree! Nice shout out, Claudia!
Re: The new episode review and discussion format--I APPLAUD the idea! I've always wondered what it would be like to sit down and watch an episode of TREK with someone who participated in making that episode, and this is about as close as someone could hope to come, I think. Even though y'all were doing the TOS pilot episode rather than an ENTERPRISE episode here, the format is STILL enjoyable because your comments are informed by the knowledge of the production process and by acting insight stemming from trainingand experience. There are ways that actors watch television which differ from the general audience, and I enjoy hearing actors' insights on fellow actors' performances and what specifics they notice and appreciate. I'm guessing this new format will 'find its legs' the more times you come back to it, but again for me the most interesting aspect of the discussion is that people who know production well become audience members for a change and it's fun to witness that shift in role and perspective.
Mark!-Mark!-Mark!-Mark! - is quickly becoming a meme in my house. 53:50 - 'Wagon Train to the Stars'. According to William Shatner - "Evidently Jeffs wife hated the first pilot, and as a result she began to frequently storm into Gene's office, loudly making demands like "from now on, my Jeff must only be shot from certain angles," and apparently it became "Jeff wants this" and "Jeff demands that." Gene later told me that he'd much rather be dealing with Jeff and his agent, or even Jeff and a gorilla, than Jeff and his wife. He continued that there were so many tantrums, restrictions and ultimatums being laid out on the table that he finally thought, "Well, I can't possibly do an entire series like this. They'll drive me nuts."
STAR TREK SCHOOL! Boom! Nice! Also, hahaha re: Mark Mark Mark... that's funny.
Don't get people complaining about Joe. It's fantastic to see Trek reviewed as a stand alone piece of art rather than just as the show we love
Thanks! I agree!
Someone may have already mentioned this, but there's a TNG episode where a woman is taken aback when she's flirting with Picard and he calls her a "handsome woman." I think it was "Tapestry," when Picard has a near-death experience and Q shows up to do "It's a Wonderful Life" with him.
There’s a misconception that budgets for the first pilot or TOS were meager. Untrue. It’s a matter of allocation of resources. How much are you willing to spend on alien landscapes? “…best estimates for the pilot originally placed its production cost as more than US$500,000 represented a considerable gamble for Desilu, which was a small, ill-equipped studio at the time.” (The Making of Star Trek, p. 41)
I can’t wait for the review of The Emissary!
Love the concept team…
Would love you to take a poll from either your YT or Patreon subs for specific episodes…
My vote: In the Pale Moonlight! (A clear 10/10)
Only problem when you get into DS9 or Enterprise, is standalone eps don’t cut it. Both shows have so much character development that you lose so much reviewing individual episodes rather than watching the whole series
Great introduction Erica! ❤👏👏👌
Im going to enjoy watching these with you..
Honestly I would love to watch you guys review all episodes of Trek in order.
THIS!!
Hahaha. Fun.
If they did one a week they might finish in about 10 years
@@Jerook That is called content!
@@Jerook Oh, jeez... I think it's actually a lot longer than that. I'm game!
I enjoyed that. Please do more of these. 🙂
Personally I sit anywhere between love and really love across all the Trek eras of storytelling but even I felt that after TNG came along, the classic series was not the Trek series to get friends on board with accepting how entertaining the Trekverse is; it's telly from an entirely different era, its production (shoestring at that) reflects its time, which is jarring when you've been spoilt by the glossiness of modern production.
My Dad got me into Star Trek by introducing me to the classic series (his favourite Trek show) when I was about 9... 10 years old in 1987. As a child I think I had very little in the way of expectations of a sci-fi show (there certainly wasn't any sci-fi airing in the UK at the time) so I was able to take what was then a 20 year old TV show for what it was; sure as an eighthies kid I can't deny that all that sixties production took some getting used to but with enough exposure you do actually get use to it and as Dom sort of implied, at 9 years old all the higher brow discussion points you might draw out of an episode went right over my head. By the time I became a teenager (and after many laps of the show) I had built up this affection for the classic show to the point of obsession but by then I also had a bit more about me where I could identify the social messages, the metaphors, the values; as my comprehension matured I discovered that the show maintained its rewatchability value. Now, 30-something years later, whenever I lap the show (ran through it all again late last year!) it's probably more about nostalgia than anything else.
It's TNG though; when that series fell into my orbit I migrated from somebody obssessed over a television show to sombody who was properly rabid. I love so so much about that show, including those first two seasons! That's the series I suggest the unitiated start with.
Thank you! We are doing many many more!
awesome, good work
Just found your channel last week, loving it - and the interviews.
I've been hearing rumors that Avery Brooks has health issues and was wondering if there's any chance he'll be on your podcast ?
I love that man.
I actually prefer the 2nd rendering of The Cage as the later 2-part episode, "The Menagerie"
Oh this was ace. I can't wait for you to review Best of Both Worlds or even better, Wrath of Khan :)
Keep in mind, The Cage was originally an unaired pilot during the run of the series. None of it was seen until after the series was cancelled. The closest the viewing audience got was when parts were incorporated into the episode The Menagerie, in the second season. It was made in order to save money.
In the pilot, Spock was not established to the degree we recognize him today. He wasn't emotionally restricted at that time. Number One was the emotionless one. The reason that Jeffrey Hunter didn't end up starring in the series is because his wife convinced him he was better than television and should be a movie star. The actual first episode aired, on September 8th 1966, was Man Trap, which was the 5th episode shot. The network wanted a "monster episode" to start off the series. Fun fact, the episode Where No Man Has Gone Before, was the second pilot that was shot when The Cage failed to convince the network to do the show. Of The Cage, the network was quoted as saying the the episode was too "cerebral" for a television audience.
I hate being that guy who corrects ppl but The Manergerie was first season. Everything else you stated is spot on. Good job with your research.
Thanks team wonderful idea going through all the ST pilots! Also would be interesting to see you all review how eventually use of The Cage pilots footage into the 2 parter in Season 1 The Menagerie was it good, did it work better .. interesting to hear thanks all🎉
Gene Roddenberry is making a powerful statement by portraying a woman as second in command. The uncomfortable dialogue is intentionally provocative of the mid-1960s television audience: How does women’s equality make you feel? Get used to it because it’s the future. Pike reflects American culture coming to terms with this reality. Acceptance. Gene would continue this messaging with the diversity/inclusiveness of the TOS bridge; and much later in the wonderful ensemble cast of TNG.
Exactly. Nailed it. STAR TREK
SCHOOL! Excellent. Star Trek has helped change the world for the better. That’s the reason we are doing this. Thank you for watching and for contributing!
You missed the scene they sigle out. When he first calls her #1 isn't the exact dehumanizing they are speaking of. Magellan Barrett is a strikingly beautiful woman, and his 2nd in command on purpose. Gene marries Magel.
@@carolhenry7495 and that's putting it lightly.
@@carolhenry7495 The “uncomfortable dialogue” I reference: the sexist comments by Pike (and others) are a reflection of late 1960s American attitudes toward women in the workplace. I’ve seen TOS hundreds of times in my lifetime: know it by heart 💜
I’m so excited for this new series
Thank you! Us too!
I love this concept, and could watch Conner, Dominic, Erica and Mark discuss ST for hours.
Trip would have loved the John Ford western film reference.
I am a longtime fan of Shuttlepod Show and a lifelong Star Trek fan. Call me a fanboy, but I love all things Trek! I have been a Trekker since I was 5. Please excuse me for a long comment, but I appreciate this Episode Episodes episode so much, I thought I'd share some thoughts. I've always had a deep love and appreciation for The Cage--this is where it all began! Some things I appreciate about it is that: 1. This is where Gene Roddeberry's first ideas of the show came to fruition. Star Trek, as a whole did for televised sci fi what 2001: A Space Odyssey did for cinematic sci fi. Sure, it has it's cringey shortcomings, but great art is reflective of it's time, however, it also served as the statement by a great genius about how far we can go in the future and how wonderful our technology can be. 2. It also said, "Yes, humanity does have a future where we can all live, work and grow together." 3. Sure, some of the sets, makeup and effects do seem quaint, but, believe it or not, this was state of the art for television at that time. According to the book Inside Star Trek by Herb Solow and Robert Justman, the differences between the production budgets of TV shows and movies were huge. Back then, MGM could finance millions of dollars for movies like Forbidden Planet or 2001; in 1964, when The Cage was produced (I can't recall the specific number), it had a budget of about $325,000, which was unheard of back then. Nobody spent that much on a TV show--dare I say, Lost In Space was produced for maybe a quarter of the cost. And Star Trek was most definitely a cut above the typical sci fi shows of the time (i.e. Lost In Space, Captain Video, Tom Corbett Space Cadet, etc.) which were largely deemed "cheap kids stuff". All of these things, along with the amazing concepts and grand adventure are what make Star Trek my favorite show. I have watched, and continue to watch Trek in all it's various forms and I can share it with my son, too! Also, to answer your question re: Jeffrey Hunter: this once again is according to Solow and Justman's book, as they were reconfiguring the show apropos to make the second pilot, the production team (Solow-Justman-Roddenberry) claimed to have received a call from Hunter's wife, stating that her husband had no interest in committing to a television show because he was a movie star. And if I may end with another fun fact: when in the process of developing the character of Spock, Leonard Nimoy felt that to emphasize his alien nature, it seemed appropriate to make it sound as if he could be a character who learned to speak English from a computer, hence Spock's quasi-mechanical vocal delivery! Love you guys!
Something to keep in mind when criticizing production design of a show created in the 1960s (foam boulders, SFx, as well as garish colors): The majority of TVs were around 21," and color TVs accounted for only 9.7% of households in 1966. The image was 360i on rounded tubes. Fine details and subtle color variations would be invisible under the best of conditions, then throw in the crummy reception many households had. So I think we can cut them a little slack.
Exactly...l often wish l had an old tv to watch all my favourite old shows on...they were never meant to be seen in HD.
@@TF80s Yeah. It's hard for me to go back, though. I have a complete VHS transfer copy of WKRP so I can have all the episodes with the original music, but man, the picture quality on a modern 55" monitor is rough to look at. Fortunately as I get older, my eyesight is getting worse so pretty soon it won't matter. :)