Episode 66: The Dark Father & Noddism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2021
- If you’re new in town or just new to this whole podcast thing, you’re tuning into ‘Lore by Night’, the podcast that discusses all things vampiric, with no fear of breaching The Masquerade. In this episode, we shall be discussing Caine, the man considered to be the first and most powerful vampire in the World of Darkness. We shall discuss his origins, motives, and the cultures of those who dub the title of Noddist.
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Can’t wait for Beckett to make a three hour dissection of this video. Kindred TH-cam drama let’s go!!!
Remember - wherever we go, it is the blood of Caine which makes our fate. Farewell, vampire ...
I like how the Path of Cain is all about discipline, self reflection coupled with a pursuit of self acceptance and finding redemption for one's sins from within
Not really something you'd expect from the Father of Murder
According to Kindred interpretations of Abramatic Traditions, Lilith was cursed either because she refused to be Adam's submissive property, fled from God's Garden when Adam attacked her, decided to split from the entity known as Adam Kadmon and create both her and the physical man Adam Ha-Risham or that she was really the snake that gave Eve the Apple; but in all of these stories Lilith's curse was that anyone she ever loved would forever spurn and never truly love her back. While this can be seen in varying levels of Pettiness on God's part depending on whatever is true, including the story Lilith actually had carnal relations with God and Lucifer before the curse; if such a curse is even possible which makes every Lilin child and Dark Mother Worshiper some sort of sick joke/reality warping contradiction, within the Context of Noddism this is nothing more than Toreador Lies meant to dress up Caine's brutish demeanor and horrible personality towards a powerful Fully Ascended Mage that not only seemingly freely taught him Blood Sorcery and DIDN'T try to blood bond him like the Crone - but probably put up with many attempts at having her soul be fully consumed by Dark Deadbeat while still feeding him her potent blood. And seeing what he did without any sort of check or boundaries on his ambitions, can you blame Lilith for wishing to limit the destructive nonsense Caine got up to?
But then again, the bigger issue within Noddism is that it is structured around and manipulating Abramatic Faiths - specifically Christianity and yet many of our oldest stories, realms and supernaturals predate Judaism, let alone Christianity by millennia. And coinciding with this fact is the knowledge that Vampires love to lie. Many Elders take the names of Gods and set up Pantheons around themselves with the billions of blood cults that have existed since Humanity and Kindred came about. The Lasombra manipulated the Catholic Church, the Ashirra and their Banu Haquim puppeteers take advantage of Islam; Setiets, Toreador, Ventrue, Salubri, Tremere, Tzimisce and Brujah have cannibalized Philosophies and Cultures. It is EXTREMELY simple to imagine a powerful Vampire heard the Story of Caine and started calling himself this.
Dark Deadbeat is such a fitting name for the father of Vampire, I'll make sure to use it at least once a three times to my oblivious mage players lol.
Starting with a quote form the book of nod nice
I'm a simple man: I read "Caine", I give a like!
This is a useful and well-spoken retelling of the story of Caine, the progenitor of all Kindred, and his rise to power as well as the philosophies that came after him. If there's one thing I can take away from this episode, it's that knowing yourself from inside out and facing adversity is the key to redemption.
You caught me off-guard when you said "a fair amount of discussions at Noddist dinner parties involves who has the biggest penis, I mean, library and official sources". Not only did it make me giggle, but it also made me wonder why Kindred would consider such sizes a big deal after death.
Remember kids, Caine was a Caitiff with the starting disciplines; Celerity, Potence, and Fortitude and who then power game and learn all the others. ;)
Which is why we call VtM power gamers Caine Bros...
Caine..”where to?”
Me... ummm yeah I’ll walk thank you...
Peace Through Power
Peace Th... Wait, Wrong Caine.
The ending quote from the game vtm bloodlines not gonna lie perfect
Troika sure had a knack for that
I wander did you read demon the fallen yet
It's on the bucket list! I have it on my bookshelf
@@LoreByNightVtM then i won't spoil you but I can say this prepare to feel sympathy and to feel a little disgusted with the arrogance lol
This not only helped me understand the Book of Nod but also the Sabbat much better. Thank you!!
Glad it helped! 💙
Even though I'm admittedly religious, I definitely remember being interested in this series' take on the mark of Cain ever since I first played the Bloodlines video game. Somehow fitting, in a way, as well as the idea of The Antediluvians...these videos have definitely helped me understand VTM more, so thanks. 👍
Thank you Lore! I have been looking for some inspiration for making a Noddist! I am gonna be working on this in my chronicle!
Doesn't the fable of Kayyin and Abel look like a fable designed to validate Hunter-Herdsman tribes in pillaging but not murdering more sedentary river valley agricultural-tribes?
IN THE NAME OF KANE!
wait, wrong nod.
I have come to admire Cain, despite the cruel act of murder that he committed against his brother, Able, and his refusal to act on the merciful path that God had tried to bless him with.
I wonder when I will encounter him on the streets, in a club, or perhaps in a random dark alley when the Dark Father can claim me, using me as he pleases.
Well, one can dream, and dreams can be anything that you desire or need. 🙂
Beckett explored Kaymakli (the IRL biggest known underground city in the Cappadocia Mountains in modern Armenia/Turkey.) There Beckett found the " neonate "" Kapaneus, who wreaked havok in Los Angeles. The Methuselah Helena also posed as a neonate after she awakened from her slumber, which our mutual host tonight may or may not have mentioned to you...
Lazar of Stygia's take on the mysteries of Cain's origin is that he was cursed by his own father Adam and not the one on high, the god of abrahamic faith. It's an interesting divergence from widely held Noddist beliefs, and poetic in its own way in my opinion Adam was banished from Eden and he in turn forsakes his own son. Lazar poses that Adam, the first man and Neymar of all things in Eden had the power to bestow this church much like the power of the four archangels later like mechanic from the world of darkness game mummy.
One of the things I love about WOD is how flexible the lore is designed to be.
Caine certainly existed but Kindred pile heaps of mythology and kine theocratic influence upon that fact. Is Beckett correct and Caine was a human who was made the first vampire on the turn of human civilization from hunter gatherer to agricultural? Why do we assume his affliction was bestowed by the Abrhamic god when several bloodlines come from cultures that pre-date those very faiths? How could any of this work under the influence of the other WOD cosmologies?
Questions like this allow each Storyteller to have the necessary wiggle room to really flex those personal narratives that make Vampire such an enthralling game.
Beckett confirmed historical materialist
First came the darkness embodied as Set known to some as Ba'al and it was Set who sired Lilith whom brought undeath to Caine.
I like this kindred origin story
Yeah, pity it's Setite propaganda
@@LoreByNightVtM The great thing about perspective is that each can have one and not contend. A great clip.
As they say in 40K
Everything is truth, not all is cannon
@@truesalubriseraphiel8227 heresy you cainites are blind to the truth that is set
Ghoul:hey mr Beckett?
Beckett:hm? Yes?
Ghoul:i...uh. you should see this *shows*
Beckett:...*eye visibly twiching* ...ah. ashburn. Figures.
Ghoul:you know each other or...?
Beckett:in passing. ...that being said he was also the one who had that neonate prank me while i was in the area.
Ghoul:...oh.
Beckett:for what its worth the neonate did apologize. ...although. he seems...familar weirdly? Kind of reminds me of that fledgling who riped lacroix a new one strangely.
Ghoul:for serious? ...you dont think that poor bastards still alive is he?
Beckett:perhaps.
The thumbs down is from Lilith.
So petty. She gets her episode next week. So inpatient...
@@LoreByNightVtM Seems like that "dislike" has been reconsidered. Perhaps the true queen of the night is willing to give the get of Caine more time. The Tories and Nossies at least.
The rest? We'll see, won't we?
As the neonate came in,he knocked.
"Hey uh,mr ashburn? Im here for todays session."
The ancient nosferatu stepped from shadow carrying a leatherbound book.
"Ah neonate your just in time actually i was finishing on some errands. So what will we l-... something troubling you?" Malcolm said inquisitively.
"Well...i dont know if your gonna believe me... remember when you tought me about the salubri and golconda?"
"Yes i remember,why?"
"Well after i went home one evening...i met a salubri i think. We talked,and he seemed to have sound like he met you before. Then when the sun rose,he...walked into the sun light.
The book that was in malcolms arm dropped as he was silent.
"...what did he look like?"
"Er...well he was about probably my height,maybe slightly taller,he looked pretty lean and fit and he seemed to dress pretty plainly despite looking like he never lived on the street in his life. ...was that a elder salubri or...?"
"I...hm. likely,yes. The more modern salubris i do not know if some have achieved golconda,but an elder or Methuselah...thats a different story. Perhaps i will...keep a eye out for this mystery kindred. Anyways,where were we?"
"Well,weve spent so much time learning about other kindred. What about you?"
Malcolm chuckled at the neonates naivete as he heard the words.
"Well neonate...sit down. Perhaps i might...give you a taste of my story perhaps,one day...who knows." The ancient nosferatu smiled as he spoke.
To be continued...
That was a very cool bit of fiction, thank you for sharing!🥰
@@LoreByNightVtM as for who that salubri the idiot of a neonate just met
Well thats up to interpretation but lets just say
One does not simply kill nor diablerize a kindred, especially one who has powers from eastern lands. What you believe,up to you
@@LoreByNightVtM as for the sequel...give me a second
Hours passed after malcolm...gave some amount of his past,the neonate nodded and accepted. It was then time was up and the neonate.
"Well,i better get going before the sun comes up,same time next week?"
"Of course but before you go...tell me something,why do you even care about these meetings in the 1st place knowing that learning of our kind and what you will become is nothing short of dammnation for most."
The neonate shrugged.
"Is it? The way i see it is that many kindred seem to lose themselves in trying to remain who they were or become as much of a monster as they became. Sure some of this gehenna weirdness has merit,but in the end all of us,hell even caine are at our core,human. Changed. But still. ...a friend of mine once told me this. Its not the decent toward darkness nor the rise to the light that makes us what we are. Its our endless struggle between what we are and our nature. And for kindred,maybe instead of denying or trying to hold on,maybe theres merit in both ways of thinking. I wont lie,sure were monsters,but it sure as hell doesnt mean we should act like it."
Malcolm was surprised. ...thats a new one.
"I... ...thats a beautiful and thoughtful way of thinking,neonate. Who was this friend,might i ask?"
"Hell if i know,we sort of met briefly. She seemed nice,if a bit...unstable somewhat. ...well i should get going. See you malcolm. Maybe one day i wont be a neonate yeah,hell maybe you learn to be less isolated,wouldn't that be something."
The sun rose in earnest. The naive neonate,went outside,and dawn rose. The fool walked on. As malcolm tried to hold back a laugh as he stared down at the book
"Ha...on that perspective neonate...its interesting..."
The ancient nosferatu adjusted the picture frame that had himself and a woman in it so it would stay.
"Even after all this god forsaken time...somehow you find a way to annoy me even beyond the grave..."
Very interesting
He is also bald, fights GDI and loves Tiberium... wait, wrong franchise...
So that's what "Noddism" really means. 😅
In the name of kane
Kane lives in death
Oops wrong caine
The technology of peace
Peace through power
Didnt even think of that, and I play Teberiun Sun Multiplayer every week 🤣
Paying lip service to camarilla in order to milk that cow and still proceed with your agenda? Masterful conclusion that many here do as well ahahaha
Great work and wow, with each video your dedication to your work shows in amazing ways, so many details that are amazingly placed and delivered! Stay healthy and safe! Remember that you'll always have a tower or two for shelter and amazing hospitality, just don't mind too much to the screams that come from the basement hahahah
I love listening to your voice
The books that you mentioned towards the end, are these all books for Vampire? If not could I get a list of the ones that are for sale? I'm very new to this RPG. Please and thank you. I did enjoy this episode very much. :)
Revelations of The Dark Mother & Fragments are the only ones you can purchase
@@LoreByNightVtM, thank you!
21:29 damn thats too funny to think a elder nos saying this to some neonate
Any possibility of a video on Golconda?
I would love to do that, but there really isn't a lot of information about it, as it the concept is very personal to the Cainite in question.
Maybe I didnt notice it being mentioned previously but what exactly is the thirst of ages?
Methuselah's Thirst. Can only satiate his thirst with vampire blood
Can a fellow Cainite scholar get a list of those books referenced at the end for study? :p
You can only buy 3 of those. The others are canonical ones
@4:20 wait what I thought Adam cursed him not god
Nah, from what I remember from reading the Bible, God did curse Cain after he murdered Abel.
@Lore By Night I always found it cute how the Vampires think they rule the world from the Shadows and the Darkness of Night when in Reality they're only Supernatural Deviants of Reality missed the boat on that one didn't they?
Just a tad 😜
@@LoreByNightVtM There's always a bigger fish. ;)
@@nightstryke I don't know this lore... Nosferatu Elder, please enlighten me some more
@@dhost3911 the thing about reality deviants?
@@anyoneatall3488 yes
Go back to what you were saying about Christ being a Cain?
17:50 why would wypipo say this and to disregard so heavily?? Hmm
Cause many believe the Cainite Heresy is bogus
hmm interesting, well, if the linen robes fit... @@LoreByNightVtM
I wonder if Caine may possibly be the first Thin-blooded?
More the first Caitiff than thin blood. Both are wrong, but he is more vampire than mortal
@@LoreByNightVtM It was a theory that I thought of after reading V5 and if I am correct there was a page or footnote that reads a Thin-blooded can grow stronger with age. Though I will admit it's more of a speculation than a theory.
There are plenty of TB rumours, all created to give them hope.
Caine is the fist kindred. he doesnt fall in any category. caitiff and thin-bloods didnt exist yet.