What took out the '70 Pontiac LeMans? Transmission Failure? Converter? Is the 455 hurt? Updates!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2022
- As you hopefully saw in the previous episode the '70 Pontiac LeMans had a pretty dramatic failure a few months back and had to be brought back to the shop on a flatbed. What happened? Well in short whenever you put the car in Drive or Reverse it would immediately stall the engine down. Upon initial inspection the fluid looked absolutely terrible, nearly completely silver instead of what it should have been as blood red. So, what happened?
Well we've torn the entire freshly built transmission down to a bare case, cleaned and inspected everything, and are ready to reassemble it. Keep in mind this transmission has less than 500 miles on it since it was rebuilt and upgraded. Unfortunately with the torque converter we can't inspect much, so that unit Boss Hog converter has been sent back to ACC Performance Products to be taken apart and inspected for damage or failure. In the meantime we have a brand new Outlaw Stage 1 converter from them in hand, just 2 days after we ordered it! Huge thanks to those folks for getting one built and shipped to us so quickly!
So, new converter, freshly cleaned and reassembled TH350 transmission, and complete system flush of the lines and twin trans fluid coolers. Stab it back into place and with all new Type F fluid and let's see what happens! Huge thanks to the folks at Jegs as well for getting this order pushed through so quickly and all the constant support they give us! - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
So, on to the NEXT weakest link in the chain? What decides it wants attention next with this project? 🤔
Being as I'm running a very similar spec in my 65 gto im curious myself.
I've been told to never use a magnet to pick up check balls, it magnetizes them and then they pick up wear material after reassembly. Glad to see her back on the road!
Hmmmm interesting point, hadn't thought of that!
@@LucoreAuto Richard, with the very well known TH-cam channel and owner/operator of Precision Transmission down in Texas has videos of hundreds of his transmission tear downs and he’s used a magnet bout every video I I’ve seen to pull the check balls out so it evidently can’t do much harm cause he stands behind his work and it sounds like he’s one of the best shops for hundreds of miles.
I don’t have transmission experience so I can only go by what I see but I really don’t think you will magnetize the balls by picking them up for 3 seconds, but I’ve been wrong before. This would be a Richard question. He’s been building them for like 40 years
Great video guys , ole car got a banging cam in it .
Thank you for your time and hard work 👍
Thanks for watching and supporting us, we very much appreciate it! The cam and exhaust note out of this thing is... glorious. Glad everyone likes that drum beat as much as I do 😉
It sure sounds great running at the end of the video,glad ya got it fixed.
Absolutely in love with how this thing sounds, perfect amount of rumble and rasp. When it's not 12 degrees outside we'll certainly give you all some better revs 😉
@@LucoreAuto Awesome,can`t wait.
I hope they cut open the torque converter, take a pic/video of it, and send you the info so you can share it with us.
The promised to and we should know soon, it arrived in Alabama earlier today. As soon as we know what's up we'll let all of YOU know
I’m stealing that garden sprayer idea 👍
Lol Rich always has GREAT bad ideas!
@@LucoreAuto I have an 03 Passat you guys know but anyone reading this look up how to put trans fluid in a VW a yeah ....!
That sounds great. Takes me back to my 66 GTO.
Absolutely LOVE the sounds this thing makes!
That car sounds so good
Thank you! Definitely happy with how that sound turned out. Flowtech headers through Pypes Violator exhaust system with X pipe.... I LOVE IT
Im really enjoying this series. I sold my 70 lemans and picked up a 71 stock GTO that had been sitting since the 90s for 5k. Family wasnt into cars and just wanted it gone. Got it home and it fired right up. Needs some interior work but it was a steal!
Whoa! That's one heck of a find! Kudos for you, get that thing back on the road and enjoy it! Glad you are enjoying this series, it's been a whole lot of ups and downs for sure but I THINK at this point we're ending on a high note. Or, well a deep rumble note 😀
Thanks again guys for sharing with us 👍 from Alabama 👍 watching 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Welcome Bobby thanks for bring here! Hope the weather isn't too bad for y'all down there!
Love that car. Pure Pontiac baby!!
Thanks Tim, love it too just wish she would stop taking money out of my pocket and be down for some long cruises!
Sounds awesome, love the tips.
Thank you! I absolutely LOVE the Trans Am style tips on this! It's wrong but SO right!
Wow exhaust is sooo Lumpy! I love it!!! It's funny you can see the difference in a Chevy turbo 350 and a bop turbo 350. The bop doesn't need any washers between converter and flywheel. Enjoy it and ride it hard! Lol
It's certainly got a BIT of that "I'm not stock" sound to it 😉 We're quite happy with how that exhaust turned out. On the trans... yeah it's another one of those "the previous owner did this so let's work with it" kind of situations 🙄
@@LucoreAuto lol I understand! If you want to go to a 200r4 I have a brand new one with a 2500stall TC and trust me it's less than half what you put in the 350
@@davidjohnson8474 hmmmmm tell us more! That IS a conversion we have been considering! If it can handle the powwa!
@@LucoreAuto my dad and I bought it to put in our 71 LeMans sport 455. But Dad got sick and things got put on back burner and then he passed away. Yes it will take the power! Hardened input shaft,kevlar clutches,shift kit and 2500stall TC. It's sitting in my garage in a tool box
Sounds great 👍
Thank you! Beyond stoked with how well the exhaust turned out on this thing, and it actually MOVES again which is... nice 😀
Sounds good guys
Sounds good again, and moving under it's own power again which is even better!
Sounds awesome I have a 79 transam 4 speed
What's under the hood of your bird?
It's a 400 pontiac motor
@@timothyheller2580 yessir! Good to hear! #keepthepontiacspontiac
Hey, that's cool I was a GM trans tech for a while too. Saw many 4l60, 80 and others. One thing tho, is I used to replace the trans cooler, when it was full of metal. Keep the vids going love the content Subscribed
Great video....process of elimination... that old Pontiac sounds amazing!!!!!
Good to see the car up and moving again , what trans case is that , just wondering , it doesn't have that usual bop bell housing pattern , thanks
Huge sigh of relief when it roared to life and moved under it's own power. It's a B&M TH350, Chevy pattern so there's an adapter plate to switch over to BOP
Love the old really 2s... and white letter tires
HELL YEA
Love the Pontiac
Thank you! Hopefully it decides to play nice and stop demanding money for a bit!
@@LucoreAuto oh she wants it all. My brother owned a Transmission Shop for 26 years. He opened in 84. So that's where I fell in love with all those old cars.
from the looks of the material in the pan and fluid converter and hey you only need 1 ck ball and thats the closest to the modulator Peace
What motor are you running?? She sounds really good?? I have a 1970 ram air III 400 on the engine stand that I'm goin to build, just wondering what cam and what heads your running??? Are the heads stock??? I have a 68 Pontiac 350 with stock num 17 heads, 068 cam, Edelbrock performer intake, 3/4 carb spacer, 625 street demon carb, HEI ignition, headman headers, 2.5" exhaust into 10" flowmonster single chamber mufflers, backed by a 2004r trans, ps not happy with the trans needs mods to be what I would want and don't wanna throw tons of money at it, so switching to a TCI street fighter turbo 350 I picked up, anyway just looking for build ideas for my 400
Did i miss the converter spec? Stock or loosened up a bit?.
The Converter is a Boss Hog Outlaw 1, don't have the specs on me at the moment unfortunately but you can find it on the ACC Performance site if you are curious
I subscribed watch old videos over an over so you can get a new trans vickers or Hughes
Lol thank you, very much appreciated! Keep watching start to finish, we'll call Vickers tomorrow and start getting pricing figured out 😉
What cam are you running in that thing anyway?!
Lol have posted the cam card a time or two before, you like?
Niiice...
Fortunately so far, we may have dodged a massive bullet!
I'm wondering why the 2 washers between the torque converter and the flex plate? Do all need that?
the arp flexplate bolts are taller than the stock hardware. I used 2 washers to make sure the bolt heads dont get pressed into the front of the torque converter. Also.... there is an adapter plate that allows the Chevy pattern bellhousing to fit to the BOP engine. the washers also help push the Torque converter back to its more natural depth in the bell housing. That way the pump drive, stator and input shaft are fully engauged.
Do you like those cooper cobra tires? Thinking about a set for my 70 Tempest. What size you running on back?
Absolutely love them, switched over to these on basically all our classics. This one is running a 235 front and a 275 rear. Have 245 front 275 rear on the '68
@@LucoreAuto Were you tempted to try and stuff a 295 in the back as I am? lol they are 1.07' wider at section width and 2.10" wider at the tread compared to the 275......don't think it will fit but damn they look meaty!
I told you people with the torque converter
That's what we initially thought as well it was just an entirely odd situation. Hopefully nothing else was hurt, as you can see from the fluid there was a LOT of material in circulation!
By the way cam sounds vicious 👹
Thank ya! It certainly says, I'm here to party 🥳
I could use a muncie if you have one lying around
I have a saginaw 4 speed I am getting ready to swap out of the 65 c10 for a T5. pretty sure I have a Sag 3 speed as well
boss hog convertor? don't beat on it.
Yeah this is the first one we've ever had a problem with and honestly surprised. We'll see what they report back though after they cut open the old one
@@LucoreAuto their rep is somewhat ok,but those convertors are not meant for hard use.you should blow the tires off if that convertor is working right.
👍🏽🇺🇸👍🏽
How'd you bolt a Chevy tranny to a Pontiac motor cause as is only 2 bolts line up?🤔
There's an adapter plate between the block and bellhousing. We never showed that in any of the videos though I don't think
@@LucoreAuto Sure didn't cause l believe l watch all the videos and didn't remember seeing that part anyway hats off sir bad ass build
Hate to say I told you so😁
Lol hey if ALL it was turns out to be a bad converter, that's a good thing!
It's your right foot's fault.
I promise I was behaving! Only ever did 2 burnouts with it 😞
@@LucoreAuto yeah and it's dark outside right now. Lol.
Likes help right?
Yes indeed, as do comments! 😀
@@LucoreAuto yes! Lol
Definitely converter, stator came apart.
That's our current working theory, super odd failure situation but even the best can have a bad one every now and then. We'll know the details soon!
@This Is Your Captain Speaking' @Lucore Auto and LucoreRacing;
Your assessment like Rich's, are correct that the issue, problem and failure is within the stater.
However, the failure is a not uncommon aspect within the stater - the stater bearing.
If You see my comments on the previous video with links which describe, detail, and show how torque converters work, each internal component and the resultant failure that caused the issue such the engine stalled when placed into gear, both drive [normal, forward] and reverse.
There must be slippage within the torque converter from the connection through the transmission, drive train to the wheels. This is the same as with a manual transmission, when the clutch is gradually engaged, allowing gradual connection from the engine, flywheel through the transmission, drive train to the wheels.
Basic mechanics, information, knowledge and sometimes experience, certainly expertise which includes full, proper information, knowledge of the entire power and drive train leads to this correct assessment, evaluation, discernment, analysis, determination and conclusions.
This simple replacement method of the torque converter along with the necessary proper cleaning of all portions, components of the transmission, to remove all of the old fluid sludge, soot, dirt, etc., which should have been done previously [and is clear, obvious and certain it was not - perhaps the transmission coolers along with the actual transmission]. As stated in my comments, previously also, this sludge, soot, dirt, etc.is most likely the cause of the failure within the stater bearing, and may also still be just blocked, since there has not been very extensive use, only 400 miles, with some more extreme use on the track, but not extensive. If the converter parts were also old, inferior, or the bearing was starved, lacking fluid for sufficiently long time, use period, then the bearing could be damaged and either way perhaps not fixable, or worth fixing or the company which put this converter together basically assembles given, ordered, selected parts, but does not have their own manufacturing of them. Those that actually manufacture the stater can repair, replace or fix it, along with the bearing.
If You or anyone [which includes Rich, Austin and any of the Lucore Mechanics or any others too 🤔] desires to have the basic, correct, clear information, knowledge about torque converters, my suggestion is to view the videos in the link in my comments upon the previous video [Episode 1] 😏
All The Best and Much Success in Your Quest, Health and Well Being..😊
Sincerely☺
P..S.: Note: My personal view is that Rich has the given abilities, capabilities to achieve the level required to become an even better mechanic with more extensive expertise. [which is often subdued, limited, restricted within 'dealership' type work and such environments, since they usually have very separated, segregated, divided, divisional, 'slotted', etc. work along with other aspects too] 😄
my background includes being a mechanic, technician, assembler, involved in maintenance, repair, fixing, modifications, etc., along with given 'natural' abilities, capabilities, thinking, etc. which include methodical, visual, conceptual, inquisitive, experimental, discovery, etc., also very mathematical, desiring to know the function, cause, mechanisms, [how things work, interact, interconnect, intertwine, exist, etc.] then developed further into advanced mathematics, science [physics, chemistry, and related], engineering, design, development, troubleshooting, repair, etc.
Thus, these ideas, concepts, principles are rather simple and easy for me to comprehend too.
The problem, issue and cause was also relatively easy, simple, clear, obvious and certain from the described, shown issue, and more so with showing the removal, conditions, etc. of the transmission, torque converter. The additional details of operation, function, and components of the stater confirms with certainty where the problem, issue and failure exist. 🤓
This situation among many others, exemplifies how more detailed information, knowledge, especially the basic operation details, function, mechanisms, mechanics, and in addition the basic ideas, concepts, principles are extremely helpful, useful and beneficial within assembly, disassembly, troubleshooting, repair, fixing, modifications, performance, etc. The mechanic does not need to be an engineer that has the level of knowledge to properly design, but with the more proper base, basic level of information, knowledge of operation, function, mechanisms, mechanics, etc.and more so the ideas, concepts and principles involved, then the mechanic is more developed and far superior.🤓
@@newtonfirefly3584 Agreed, could be the stator bearing failed, causing the stator to be shredded.
I've noticed a huge tendency for replacement "new" torque converter failures and my belief is it's a quality issue.
This is also where I'll add that a fluid/filter change should take place soon after replacement for several reasons, not the least of which is a clogged filter lowers clutch apply pressure.
I was happy Lucore didn't just switch to 4L80E and all that entails, the TH350 is my favorite automatic.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 You have good ideas 😏 and are clearly thinking. 🤔.
However, several noticeable conditions indicate differently than Your assessment, evaluation and suggestions. 🤓
🙄
Firstly, the clear, obvious, noticeable sludge, soot, dirt, etc. is a certain indication of long term use, not short term or possibly some from extreme use, which includes extreme overheating, use, perhaps other severe conditions which place high stress, shearing, etc., which would result in the severe breakdown of the ATF, [also very poor quality ATF]. 🤓
However for just 400 miles use within 3 years, this seems quite unexpected or highly close to not possible, even including the more severe, but occasional drag racing use. 🤨
Though You clearly agree with the issue inside the torque converter is with the stater, You state again [repeat] that the stater failure is of or with the basic structure and thus using the term 'shredded' in this reply. 🙄
😔
You also claim about the issue of the filter being clogged, after a new build does not appear to exist 🤨, when viewing the actual information, and condition of the filter shown 🧐, there were no significant metal pieces, nor anything other that the sludge, soot, dirt in the overall transmission which could contribute to the stater issue, malfunction or possible damage. 🤓
It seem to me, that if You will view and comprehend the information, knowledge, function, parts, details, etc. which are clearly, and simply explained within the two video links, this may give You better clarity too. 🤔😏
As per the functional, detail descriptions and presentation, it is clear the failure of the stater is within the bearing which is necessary to allow the slippage, so the load does not cause the engine to stall. As stated in my comments, the comparison with the clutch function for manual transmissions. 🤓
My hope is that the information, knowledge, description, explanations will be clear, useful, helpful, beneficial for You thus comprehended, increase You knowledge base, ideas, concepts and principles too.🤓
😏
All The Best. 😊
Sincerely ☺
@@newtonfirefly3584 A torque convertor with an inferior or damaged (cracked, for example) stator might work fine for thousands of miles until it fails by breaking into pieces and gets shredded.
In the case of this Pontiac, I feel this wouldn't have happened if the original converter had been reused, a 2nd fluid/filter change shortly afterward would've been advisable.
I feel a contaminated system didn't occur until after the converter failed, thus won't get into the filter type that was installed except to point out it differed from the original type.
I like the way she talks, SEXY!! 🚗💞💨
She's certainly got some attitude and swagger!