Pastor & Wife: MOST SHOCKING LDS Beliefs for Evangelicals
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- We get asked all the time: what is the most shocking Latter-day Saint belief to mainstream Christians. Pastor Jeff & his wife Joy discuss!
Support this effort: www.HelloCreat...
Get exclusive access to bonus content on Patreon: / hellosaints
Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between mainstream Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons Christians? What do Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this conversation, you might enjoy a video Pastor Jeff with his wife attending Latter-day Saint church in Utah for the first time: • Our FIRST TIME at a La...
#LatterDaySaints #Mormon #LDS
What shocks you most about Protestant beliefs and what do you respect?
😔 how mean and judgmental you can be towards us, i know its not from everyone but the very basics of Jesus teachings are thrown out to attack a faith when we just try to unite
Protestants think God believes in the family units just does not believe in them enough to last after death
There are aspects in the Protestant belief that I did not notice that we shared. Grace is a term that hear a lot from my Protestant friends and I love conversations that I have heard between Latter Day Saints members and Jeff on that topic and through some understanding of our beliefs amongst each other have gained a profound respect between our faith groups on this manner. I know feel more educated to talk to my Evangelical friends and share our differences but also our commonalities as well. Love these discussions.
Many Protestants believe that they worship a different Jesus than their LDS friends and neighbors. I've never understood this. Where does this concept of multiple Jesus's come from?
My biggest shock was the Garden of Eden beliefs- I adore Eve. I am so thankful to her and for her. I can’t imagine feeling let down by her sacrifice. She is our first mother. To me it makes sense that her children were her top priority even to transgressing before God.
But I think I can learn from Protestant understanding, devotion to and study of the Bible. It’s awesome. So much to learn! Especially from the New Testament after the gospels. I also love the moms groups, preschools, sports leagues, Bible studies, counseling centers, etc in the Christian churches in Midwest where we live. We also could use playgrounds on our church properties!
Christians seem willing to share their faith and bring up Christ. I love that. Their churches have open doors policies and are inclusive and I love that! That feels like visiting my own church. It’s great.
I saw this video of a family that made sweatshirts in memory of their beloved grandma. The grandma’s arms and hands were painted and she hugged each of them while they were wearing the sweatshirt. They were each left with a visual of grandma’s arms hugging around them. This is a good analogy of LDS temple garments to me. I love my garments!!! I was so excited to start wearing them 24 years ago and I am so thankful for the daily remembering they bring. My garments are my daily reminder. My physical sign of comfort. A sign that I am covenanted with Christ. I am His disciple. It doesn’t matter if others don’t get that or disagree. They are a gift.
What a great analogy. 🫂
I completely agree with you! Garments are sacred and they always remind me of my covenants with God. 😊
Considering Mormonism, the only one who can be an elder or pastor in a church is one who has one wife and is above reproach in every way. The Bible books of Timothy and Titus explain the requirements for a pastor. Joseph Smith nor Birmingham Young met these godly requirements set by God Almighty. Joseph Smith had 40 wives and Bingham Young had 55 wives and could never be pastors or church leaders and some of Smith’s wives were already married. They even took married women to be their wives and young girls.
They believe men can call as many women as they desire from the grave to rule planets alongside of them. They believe they will be more mighty than God in rulership of planets. An honest Mormon will have no problem stating this. I knew a lady years ago, whereby, a male Mormon friend told her he was going to call her from the grave to be one of his wives. Though this teaching is all a lie and no where found in the Bible which cannot be added to or subtracted from.
I knew a gal who was visiting in a Mormon home and she was shocked when the husband/father asked will a woman come and turn off the television.
Christ was not married and is not. Mormons state, Christ had wives on the earth and now, in heaven. This is a total lie. Plus, there are no female angels and no wives in heaven. Christ is undefiled, holy, innocent, pure, set apart from sinners and exalted above the heavens; Hebrews 7:26. Mormons are all about preaching a false christ and many false christs will come in the last days as foretold by God Almighty.
Mormons state they believe the Bible. If they believed the Bible they would not follow one word these adulterers’ preached. Adulterers are not allowed into heaven. And there is no marriage in heaven. Mormons will lie and state marriage is in heaven. Sinful men love to hear they can have more than one wife as their sinful flesh desires this. This is why these lies appealed to so many when Smith and Young preached and they knew it and ran with it to make adulterous sinners feel righteous.
I once was teaching the Bible to children outside in an apartment complex and a mormon missionary started making fun of me when I taught the children, saying the Bible is not true and on and on in mockery of me.
I was lied to on a Mormon tour in Salt Lake. I was told Mormons were allowed to have more than one wife for the purpose of populating Utah. This is a deliberate lie as plural wives was instituted by Joseph Smith who never knew of Utah. Moving Mormons to Utah all arose under Bingham Young. It was in upstate New York that this occultic religion originated.
My husband once worked with Mormons and they had no problems being unfaithful to their wives; and why would they when adultery is the foundation of this occultic belief system? Plus, they are not born again by the Holy Spirit of the Bible. They are unsaved fleshly men. And I will add, many Mormons have no problem swearing.
A Christian man is to view women, outside of their wife, as sisters in all purity through the power of the Holy Spirit’s indwelling.
Plus, adulterers are not allowed in the true church. Anyone who commits this sin must repent or be put out of the church. One example is found in 1 Corinthians 5 and chapter 6 is important too regarding sin. It must be remembered: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” Heaven is reserved for those who believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible alone and have been wash clean through His blood. Though no Christian is perfect and when they sin they must ask forgiveness through God’s love for them. God is compassionate and understands our weaknesses. A true Christian is deeply convicted of sin that they might repent.
Jesus Christ stated there is no marriage in heaven. Please read the inerrant, holy Bible, Matthew chapter 22. True Christians will rule no planets and have no wives. They will be servants to the living God with whom lies no sin. It will completely encompass the LORD God and worshipping Him alone. Only through one’s surrender to Jesus Christ can would be delivered from sinful temptation. No garment with markings can do this! Such garments are obvious idols. Romans 10:9-10 from the Bible: “That if you confess with your mouth the LORD Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”
Mormon men owning many wives has caused grief amongst many Mormon women with their incestuous ways. I knew a lady who was secretary to a local counselor and he did not know what to do as all these Mormon women were coming to him for help. One local Christian counselor would ask Mormon women, when they were sexually abused by their fathers, not when, because he understood Mormonism and rightly assumed all who came to him had been abused.
No false prophets are allowed in the church. If one prophesies wrongly one time, it reveals their prophecy came from satan, not from God who never lies.
Brigham Young taught that Adam is actually god and Adam impregnated Mary, etc. Some of Mormonism blasphemes Almighty God and teaches that God the Father impregnated Mary. It is all satanically insane.
There are also no secrets in the Bible and within Mormonism you can get to certain levels to obtain special revelation. This is satanic doctrine. There are no levels of gaining special hidden truths when it comes to God’s and His holy Word.
And no white under garments will special markings will usher one into heaven. Nor are they holy. They are stitched by sinful men and women and mean nothing; nor are they different from any other garment. And this is not commanded in Scripture. No works can get anyone to heaven.
According to the LDS Church, “The temple garments serve a number of purposes. First, the garment provides the member ‘a constant reminder’ of the covenants they made in the temple. Second, the garment ‘when properly worn ... provides protection against temptation and evil.’ “
I will also add, all the original leaders of Mormonism were Freemasons and Joseph Smith and his gang obviously stole the ritual ideas from this satanic cult group.
“LDS Church temple worship shares an extensive commonality of symbols, signs, vocabulary and clothing with Freemasonry, including robes, aprons, handshakes, ritualistic raising of the arms, etc.[4] The interpretation of many of these symbols has been adapted to the Mormon narrative from their original meanings in Freemasonry. For example, whereas Masons exchange secret handshakes to identify fellow Freemasons, Mormonism teaches that these handshakes must be given to sentinel angels so that Mormons may be admitted into the highest kingdom of heaven. LDS temple garments also bear the Masonic symbols of the Square and Compass, although the LDS Church has imbued these symbols with religious meaning that exceeds the meaning of the symbols as intended by Freemasonry.”
“Tuesday, [March] 15. - I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Freemasonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office. History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Deseret Book, 1978, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.550-1.)”
All God’s truths are laid out perfectly in the Bible which cannot be added to or subtracted from.
@@Skyesoceaneyes Yeah ir made sense to me too. It’s a hug, encouragement, reinforcement and comforting.
@@Sissi1830 absolutely
What Pastor Jeff and Joy embody is “Love thy neighbor as thy self.” That is what God calls us all to do, at all times. That means do not slander or gossip about anyone, be charitable at all times, that means our Faith and Good Works go hand in hand, that also means to be respectful and kind! Honor each other, and love others into God’s Heavenly Kingdom! Do no harm and have sincere compassion, pray for one another. Love the Lord with your heart, body, mind and soul. Sin will wither away like a dead leaf blown away by the wind. I am a devout Catholic Christian who loves my Latter Day Saints Friends and Neighbors!
Missionary: "Ye have robbed God". Me: "Wherein have I robbed God?" Missionary: "In tithes and offerings." Me: "Is this required for baptism?" Missionary "Yes." Me: "What if I can't afford to tithe?" Missionary: "Take it from something else in your budget."
The way my husband looks at it, I learned this in the first year of our marriage. He said, "do you think we would have what we have if we didn't pay tithing?". That was after I said something about what we could do if we weren't paying X for tithing. I know we have been blessed in many ways over the years from paying an honest tithe.
@@brghtii I also had to say Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon was true, abstain from coffee and tea, fast on the first Sunday of the month, give the money I would have spent on that to charity, wear a white shirt with blue or gray pants to keep from sticking out like a sore thumb, obey the Law of Chastity even though I live alone. Anything else? Oh yeah, say the current president of the church is a prophet too. Get a Temple recommend to go to the Temple, whether I pay tithing or not. Something about volunteering to help clean the church about once a week.
As a result of watching all the "Hello, saints" videos I've decided to join the Mormon church and will be taking my first lesson next week from the missionaries!
@@adamfrye246
Jesus Christ hated the money changers as well. He overturned their tables twice in three years. Imagine people trying to make a profit off of people just trying to worship God?
Do you recall Jesus Christ requiring 10% of anyone's income? The blind men, the lame, the lepers, those raised from the dead, the woman at the well, the demon possessed man, the thief on the cross.......?
Jesus Christ knew that no one could ever measure up to his standard of perfection. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect.
So, Jesus Christ offers forgiveness of sins, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation for free if you are interested. That is how much God loves you. ❤️
Like the thief on the cross, all anyone needs to do is repent of their sins and put their faith in what Christ has already done for them on the cross. 🕊 ✝️ 🕊
“The Saints can testify whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a ‘Mormon.’ I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination”
- Joseph Smith
Joseph Smith was great! Our leaders have lost his Power and point of view. we go Dumb!!
After 12 years away from the church as a defector, and recently returning to the church , I had the opportunity to do baptisms for the dead again for the first time in 20 years, the other day. I also had the wonderful privilege of acting as baptizer and confirmer for the very first time, and I got to baptize/confirm my mother for some of our ancestors. It was a profound and beautiful experience.
I never feel closer to my Savior than when I'm in one of his holy temples, and I'm looking forward to receiving my endowment soon. 🙂
@@jacekiser5876 Have you considered, or is it discussed, what if the dear souls would not want to be baptized into the LDS church? Our Jewish brethren have made it known they do not wish their relatives and ancestors to be baptized. As a RC, I would not want to be baptized into the LDS church at a future time, despite your best intentions. My faith is as important to me as yours is to you.
@@valentinat3250nobody is forced to join the Church by our proxy ordinances. They can choose to accept them, or not.
@@valentinat3250one thing that is an important part of our belief in baptism for the dead (and other proxy work) is that the person gets to decide to accept or not accept the ordinances done on their behalf. Agency to choose is an essential part of our belief system.
@@megansantini Have you considered that view may not be satisfactory to those of other faiths? With respect, would you care to be baptized by a RC priest after your passing? Just a thought…we actually don’t do that. Peace.
@@valentinat3250As a latter day saint, I would love if every religion would be willing to baptize me into their faith. Again, after I die, I can choose to accept or reject those offerings after I die. That wouldn't hurt me in any way.
Weather pastor Jeff and his darling wife agree with our beliefs, I admire them getting to know from the LDS SAINTS themselves what we believe rather than the internet or hearsay.
You two are so Christlike and such a darling, sweet Christian couple!!!
"Weather pastor" or its more modern "Climate Change pastor" (sorry for the dad joke at you're (sic) expense).
Vibrant, beautiful spirits, learning and advancing up Jacob's Ladder!
We're so used to being treated as 2nd class Christians (or just not Christian at all) it's nice to be respected for once. We love you both!
Why do you believe that the LDS haven't been recognized as Christian?
It was Joseph Smith who said that it was revealed to him that all the creeds of Christianity were an abomination. Christians were deceived by Satan, anti Christ, all wrong, and had the spirit of the devil in them.
John Taylor said that Christianity was a perfect pack of nonsense.
Because Latter-day Saints kept such careful records of everything it is hard to get away from the original teachings.
@Elizabeth-rk3do that still doesn't negate our belief in Jesus christ therefore being Christians, but I can see your point that our leaders have also pointed out differences in the past. But we don't discount your Christianity even if we believe some parts of it aren't based on God's authority. So why can't this be reciprocal?
@@logankearl8115
Christianity is vastly different than the teachings of the LDS church. In order for me to become a Latter-day Saint, I would need to change the God that I worship.
As a Christian, I do not worship the LDS Heavenly Father. I had already read the entire Bible many times before I had heard of the LDS Heavenly Father. (I had always assumed that we worshiped the same God.)
"As man is now, God once was. As God is now, man may become."
*****
The true and living God of the Bible is invisible and a spirit.
I Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory forever ....
Colossians 1:15
Hebrews 11:27
God is not a man.
I Samuel 15:29
Numbers 23:19
Hosea 11:9
A created being cannot speak a universe into existence from nothing, create a human being out of the dust of the ground, and raise the dead.
@@tkc3742-because we hear it all the time. When people ask what church I belong to and I tell them LDS, I am often told that I’m not a real Christian. That my Jesus and God are not the same.
When I put my garments on I am reminded of my promises to follow Jesus Christ and if worn properly I am always modestly dressed. I am a convert. I was blessed in an evangelical church. About 6 I was standing by my grandmother as she was praying at the alter. Everyone was praying out loud and I thought how can God hear all these people? A thought came to me that I would be taught more at a latter time. Another time I wasn't feeling well and I thought why am I here, where am I going? About age 10 our family started going to the Methodist church. Jesus was in temple at 12 so I thought I should be baptized at 12 so my Dad and I were baptized in a river. Then at age 14 we came in contact with The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. I read everything on the church I could find. I went to my bedroom and asked God if this was all true. I cannot explain my experience except I felt engulfed in love. I knew it was true. The Lord told me at age 6 years old he would teach me. I am in my 70s and have been exposed to many religions and wonderful people. I have also been persecuted for my belief. I have learned and continue to be taught. I bear testimony of Jesus and I know that this is the restoration. I don't wonder why I am here, or where I cam from. I am a spirit child of Heavenly parents and look forward to seeing them again. I love being baptized for those who were not baptized by authority while they were upon the earth. I love being a proxy for that person that they have the opportunity to receive all those abrahamic covenant if they accept my service for them. All may return home because this work will be done for every individual. It is all in the scriptures if you look with your heart. It is true I testify in the name of Jesus Christ Amen 🙏
@bannahhanover9673 That made my heart swell and my eyes flow! That is a beautiful testimony!!!
Very similar to my experience, as a former Methodist. I honor the faith of my righteous Baptist and Methodist cousins. However, discovering the Restoration has added an amazing and wholly positive dimension to my life. Things could have turned out very differently for me otherwise.
Amen. Beautifully said. I was raised Baptist, converted to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints at 19. Will be 66 next week.
When you know it's true, you just know it.
"By the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things".
That's how Latter Day Saints have a testimony of things that seem difficult to apply logic to.
I served my mission in Alabama. Left my family in Southern California it was a big culture shock, I served among some of the most religious people on earth and I love those people to this day. I did however experience a high number of Pastors and zealous members that would confront us at the door, some very angry telling us we were going to hell etc. However most folks were very kind but didn't have time for us which I understood. I remember one Pastor in particular that was so kind to us and treated us as brothers, it meant so much to me that I will never forget his kindness as he exemplified the love of God and Christ. I think we have more in common than not. I listen to talk radio and Christian music ( Generally not LDS) most of the day when I'm driving for work and enjoy feeling the love of God and the Holy Spirit through it. I love what you are doing here, it brings us all much hope and understanding of each other in so many ways. God bless you and your family and keep up the great work.
I lived in South part of my life and experienced both kindness and anger. In NC one protestant church gave Anti-"Mormon' seminars. My LDS friends and I went to one and it was bizarre for us. Terribly inaccurate. It was in late 1970s.
@@karylmorgan7320 oh yeah, they also have specific anti Mormon churches in Salt Lake City. Lol
@@CynthiaNylander ???
It sounds like the LDS perspective of the garden of Eden is less shocking and more revealing. It provides increased purpose to the Atonement since man can now learn from their mistakes rather than being condemned by them.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgressions.
We are not living in Gods plan B, because he was taken by surprise by Satan
@@claudiawieckenberg-og9vs I love that!
@@claudiawieckenberg-og9vs You’re correct, we aren’t living plan B, we’re living plan A. God’s questioning of Satan is much as when He was questioning Adam and Eve after they ate the fruit. It isn’t because God didn’t know the answer. If an all-knowing God hadn’t wanted the Fall to occur at some point all He would have had to do is _place the Tree somewhere they couldn’t reach._ Simple, logical, utterly preventable. Saying he didn’t want the Fall makes God either extremely irresponsible or supremely stupid. Neither is a God I can worship.The Fall was a necessary step in mankind gaining true free will because if you can’t see a difference between good and evil then your choices are morally random, good only by chance, evil only by chance. Ignorance ≠ goodness or badness, it’s just ignorance. And if we could not truly choose between the good and the bad, that also means we could not truly choose _Him._
@@onedadinplaid159 If it matters, Evangelical Christians believe we deserve to be punished for our own sins as well. We've all sinned.
Thank you both for being fair when it comes to religion. I am a convert to the LDS church and have been for 55 yrs. My Father was a Pentecostal Holiness preacher in the Bible Belt of Oklahoma. I never was "saved" or joined that church. I love my LDS faith and Jesus Christ. He is my Savior and Redeemer. I can look back and see how far I have come spiritually since my conversion. It has made a huge difference in my life.
Thank you again for a wonderful, respectful, and thoughtful video!
I absolutely adore you both!
Something I have always loved about the mainstream Christian culture is that it is so easy for you to openly pray for others with them, in the very moment you see their need. Also the ease and lack of timidity in which you share your beliefs. I believe you are truly doing good in sharing in the moment and not worrying about what others might think of you if you do. LDS could learn a lot from this.
I love watching your videos and feel at peace as I do, knowing that you are helping to bridge the gap between all of God's children no matter their beliefs.
Thank you again!
I agree completely! It’s awesome.
That's something I (LDS) do myself, and learned to do it on my mission. It does still feel weird sometimes, not knowing how certain people will take it, it's not really part of our culture. I think we could learn from Evangelicals there.
@@joaop.barata6062 That is awesome! I agree completely.
Latter Day Saint here. As someone who’s participated in proxy work for the dead and therapy for myself, I loved Joy’s analogy on therapy and baptism for the dead. I’ve never thought of it that way before, but it’s so true, the two are very analogous.
+
@@THEREFORMIST Think of the degrees of sin? Some ppl murder, some lie a little bit. Some are maybe just rude and yell at their families. All of these are sins but completely NOT similar.
@@THEREFORMIST I disagree with your reading of this verse and the others that contextualize it. Thanks for the reference though!
Yes that was a good discussion. We are connected to the generations through temple and family history work.
Yes. +1
Hi. When I met with the missionaries in 1983 and they told me of the vision of God and his son Jesus appearing to Joseph Smith. I thought to myself that it is either or a big fat lie and most importantly, this could be the most important event that took place in my lifetime. I was 19 yrs old. It felt in my heart good so I took on the challenge to ask of God himself if was true. I received my answer until my third prayer request because I asked from my heart and was willing to leave aside my thoughts and opinions about the message. The day that my father in heaven answered my prayer was absolute, personal so much so that my heart swelled to the point that it felt as if it was going to burst with confidence and Joy. Never before had God communicated with me so directly. I knew and know until today that he answered my sincere prayer. So no matter what people question or say about the church and the gospel, I know deep in my heart that it's true. Read Moroni chp 10 with the spirit and you will know the truth of the book of Mormon. love from South Africa. Sorry for many typing errors. I tried to correct them. God bless ❤
Thanks for sharing. What does the Bible teach us about how to ascertain the truth claims of a prophet?
Thank you for your testimony, love it!
@@tkc3742I don’t know of any direct instruction about receiving an answer to prayer in the Old Testament. Amos does say that god will not do anything except that he revealeth his secrets through his prophets. In the New Testament James says, if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith nothing wavering.
I'm a former Mormon myself. Please do not believe the burning in the bosom test the missionaries tell you to try. Why? Because....
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jer 17:9
You should test all truth claims against what the Bible says.
Joseph Smith claimed that there are millions of gods and that the god the LDS worship was a perfected man who became god. He also claimed that people can become gods too. They call it the Law of Eternal Progression. Do an internet search on the "King Follett discourse" and you will see that the god of Mormonism is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob of the Bible. They believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. They also believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are 3 separate gods. This is their trinity in that they are separate gods but one in purpose.
"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Deut 13:1-3
"The LDS church stands or falls on Joseph Smith's testimony of the First Vision. If the First Vision didn't happen, then our church is a fraud." Gordon B. Hinckley. The problem is that there are 9 differing accounts of Joseph's First Vision each with contradictions over the others. The church's official First Vision isn't even the one written in Joseph Smith's own handwriting. The church uses the 1838 version which shows god as having a body of flesh and bone. Joseph Smith didn't ever mention a word about his "vision" until well over 10 years after the fact. Don't take my word on any of this. Do your own research and you will find the truth out for yourself.
@@tkc3742 By their fruits, ye shall know them
What’s “shocking” to LDS members is that Evangelicals think that God did not know beforehand that Adam and Eve would partake of the fruit. If God is all knowing then what happened in the Garden was part of the plan
They were created as free thinking
God, being all knowing and existing outside time and space, did know what was to happen in the garden.
It doesn't logically follow that because God knew what was to happen, that he wanted it to happen. After all God explicitly commanded the first couple not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so if he really wanted them to eat of the tree while commanding them not to, he would be guilty of the sin of duplicity. God is not duplicitous like we are (Num 23:19)
The eating of the fruit wasn't part of God's intended plan, but because He is all powerful and loving he can redeem our mistakes and has done so through Jesus Christ.
Yup… he knew we would fall and already had a plan to rescue us.
“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-”
Ephesians 1:4-5 NIV
I have never met an Evangelical who thinks that.
The key thing to consider, that begins to unlock the mystery of the Garden, is found in 2 Nephi Chapter 2 verses 22-23. This is where we find out that if Adam and Eve had not transgressed by eating the fruit, then “they would have had no children” and thus would not have been able to keep the commandment to multiply and replenish the Earth. They had to transgress one commandment to keep the other commandment. This one lost, but now restored, piece of the puzzle changes everything.
A+ report. You guys are wonderful… I’m a LDS convert that lives in the heart of the Bible Belt. We love our mainstream Christian brothers and sisters and are grateful to both of you for you work helping to bring incredible truth and understanding with your work to promote kindness, understanding , compassion, and love.
And as always when you teach together, you are the BEST. We love you both so much and pray that our Heavenly Father will continue to bless you in your noble work.
I was raised as a southern Baptist but after some 30 years away from them I recently joined the LDS church and I’ve never been happier. I do believe that God new that Adam and Eve would defy him as well as he new Jesus Christ would die for our sins. The LDS does have several guidelines to follow to be worthy of the temple endowment which is fine with me, because I do better in a structured environment where rules exist for us to follow. I am ex-military and I need a structured environment to keep myself on the path of righteousness that Jesus and the LDS church has laid before me. So yes, I love the LDS church and I wouldn’t trade it for another.
I am a former Southern Baptist Convention church member. I then joined the LDS church.
The 10 Commandments were pretty structured if you ask me. One of the many problems I have with the LDS church is the works requirement needed to achieve exaltation. In other words, Christ death and resurrection were not sufficient to pay for all your sins to allow you to return to God. You must do all the works of the temple continually in addition to believing in the Jesus of Mormonism. Do you believe that you can become a God? If so, then how do you account for Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. the Bible which says there were no gods before me nor will there be any after."
@@charleswyatt52 "One of the many problems I have with the LDS church is the works requirement needed to achieve exaltation. In other words, Christ death and resurrection were not sufficient to pay for all your sins to allow you to return to God."
The problem is: that's not what we believe, in the slightest. This is a huge misconceptions other Christians have about us, and admitely is partly because we have often failed to explain it properly. I'll do my best here:
Jesus taught that to those who believe in Him, and love Him, He will grant eternal life. I think we can agree there, right?
Jesus also taught: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
We believe that the "works" you're talking about, are commandments to be kept.
We cannot separate the works from salvation, because keeping His commandments is a requirement of love to Him, and love for Him is a requirement of salvation.
That does not mean we are doing our part, and Jesus is doing His part, and then somehow we add it all up to see if we got enough points to get into "Heaven". The reason that I can be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, repent and be a better man, and keep all the commandments, is Him - He's the reason. Because He was lifted up for me, I can do all those things which he asks of me.
We also take Christ's teaching to Nicodemus literally: He that is not born of water and of the Spirit, cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
As for Isaiah 43:10, it's all in the interpretation of the word "God". Simply put, we do not believe we can ever become GOD. We believe we can be like unto Christ, who Himself is like unto God, and co-heirs with Him.
I haven't read anything in scripture that says Adam and Eve defied God. Disobeying isn't necessariyly defiance. Defiance to me seems more like rebellion and though I can see how any disobedience may qualify, I also believe intent has a lot to do with judging something like this.
@@stephtimms1776 It was not rebellion, but a transgression.
This was a fun video. I think the most shocking thing about Protestants is how shocked they are at our religion.
What do you believe motivates the shock that Biblical Christians have about your religion?
uhm yeah… because of the culty elements at the temple and for believing so many crazy things - translating a record by putting stones in a hat, Garden Eden in Missouri, believing that green tea is bad for you, believing in the Three Nephites, believing that polygamy was called of God, believing that people all have the same 40a or so names in heaven, believing that singles can only become serving angels in heaven, Kolob,…
That is because of how different theology is in Mormonism to mainline Christianity. If you were born in the covenant, it seems normal to you.
@@tkc3742Worship: The literal meaning of the word "cult" is "worship". So, I guses if someone goes to church on Sunday they are "culty". Yes, we also like to care for the sick and the needy. We dedicate our lives to caring for others. Does that make us more "culty"? Everyone's religion looks weird when you are looking at it from the outside in.
@@ctcsadboc22 That's been a gripe of mine is the mindless dispersion of the term "cult", and when you look it up in a dictionary, it's very much oriented towards religious devotion.
Thank you for calling out people who insult us for wearing temple garments.
Infuriates me.
@@HelloSaints Thank you for that!
Yes, thank you, Pastor Jeff. If people used the Golden Rule, then they'd know asking and commenting at all, especially in disrespectful ways, on underwear is really not appropriate. I don't mind if it's done privately and sincerely in trying to understand though.
Yes thank you. That was so touching and refreshing to have you defend us
Catholics wear brown scapulars
We just moved to a little town in the mid-west. As Latter Day Saints - we love interfaith service and collaboration. In our town is a wonderful little store where people can donate used goods to help those who are struggling. 5 Christian churches work and help make it run. We were excited to donate and be a part, but found out that they won't let us help or donate because we they consider us as non-christian. Our church even raised a considerable amount of money for them and they wouldn't accept it. I wish they could be more like you and not so scared of us.
We really could do wonderful things together!
This was something we experienced in the Midwest as well. We moved from AZ, and it was interesting seeing what other churches who had had less interaction with members of the church thought of us! I grew up going to different church activities of friends with different faiths. We all just got along and didn't mind our differences, so it was definitely a shock to me!
Personally it's sad they wouldn't work with you to help others however this is an opportunity to just help people yourself and when they realise they actually need what your offering then this should change. I am ex mormon however I will help mormons in ways if needed .. I sometimes see lds missionarys and organise a time to meet them and go for food as for me they deserve respect and love
At 7:10. Temple recommends serve another function than just temple work. They are symbolic of your faithfulness and keeping covenants you keep with God. Even during COVID when temples were closed, faithful members kept their recommends up to date. They knew temple work would resume in time but also wanted to symbolically show their relationship to God was still intact even with the turmoil the world had to offer in 2020-2021.
God looks at the heart but the Mormon leaders look at paper or temple recommend. our leaders need to do a better job with all of this.
If we keep them in our purses, briefcases, backpacks -- Temple recommends identify us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, that knowledge which helps us to get the proper care, and alerts police and emergency personnel to seek out other worthy members who can give us Priesthood blessings, if needed, for possible survival, and helps them to find our family members, through church apps, and if deceased through accidents and etc., to have our mortal bodies taken care of in accordance with our church beliefs, by the morticians where our bodies are taken, while waiting to be claimed by family or relatives.
If we look at them often enough, whether attending the temple, or not, they remind us of our special first day in the temple, when we attended it for to make covenants (our promises to the Lord) to always strive to be very obedient to God and to Christ Jesus (as the Apostle Paul calls our beloved Christ in the New Testament) throughout all of our lives, lifetime, and beyond through all eternity. This is done ("narrow is the way", Christ said) 'in our temples', through the blessings of his holy Higher Priesthood, or the Melchizedek Priesthood (which is named after the very faithful holy prophet of God, Melchizedek, told to us of, in one of the the Bible's books, or the Old Testament.
:-)
@@99blackbirds That's a ridiculous notion.
@99blackbirds this is utterly ridiculous and wrong.
@@alisarichardsramirezmusic2233 The greatest thing the LDS leaders did was change the questions of the temple recommend with "Do you OBEY the law of....." to "Do you STRIVE to obey the law of....." Finally they acknowledge we are not PERFECT but we try!!!! They are learning!!!
I'm not LDS, but I'm not a coffee or tea drinker. Both taste terrible, tbh. I barely drink soda either. Caffeine is bad for your blood pressure.
MANY studies have shown coffee to be healthy. What is bad for blood pressure is Lisinopril, which is made from snake venom. I lost weight, walk several miles, several days a week & threw away the Lisinopril after taking it over 10 years as well as FOUR other scripts!
You are wiser than 99% of God's children 😊
I wish I could get to a point I barely drink soda. I drink way too much and my weight is suffering. From both that and fast food.
I'm LDS and do not drink coffee, tea with caffeine (herbal teas, yes), any soda, alcohol and have found much health and control and staying away from addiction forming habits, drinks or substances. THE word of Wisdom is inspired! I will say coming up in fall and winter you could serve hot cocoa or cider! We love that!
Maybe one reason the church insulated itself in Utah, which was outside the US then, was because protestant America had an extermination order against them and did kill their leaders. The Church got away and regrouped till they could eventually begin to fulfill their original mission to reach out to all peoples of the earth, ie. their extensive missionary work. Just a thought.
Absolutely. My grandparents on both sides always had good friends of various faiths and they were born between 1915-1930 so I don’t know why Pastor Jeff thinks the LDS members were closed off until the last 10-20 years? 😂
@@amynazza correct… We have the largest missionary program of any church in the world. I’m not sure how much more we could reach out if we tried.
Perhaps also, Joseph Smith told his followers to destroy a printing press (among many other crimes) as well as abusing his religious and political power and that’s why people wanted them gone? Perhaps they wanted to isolate themselves in Utah to continue polygamy and pedophilia? Mormon history is not innocent in the way they try to paint it. Towns and states don’t just push entire groups out because they don’t like them - Mormons threw the first stone.
Could it possibly be that they burned so many bridges due to Joseph Smith abusing his political and religious powers, practicing polygamy in secret, and ordering the destruction of a printing press (among other crimes) that finally told people in the Midwest that they had enough of the Mormons and THAT caused them to flee to Utah? Are we really expected to believe that mormons showed up and did NOTHING wrong? Their history is not innocent in the way they tell it.
Could it possibly be that they burned so many bridges due to Joseph Smith abusing his political and religious powers, practicing polygamy in secret, and ordering the destruction of a printing press (among other crimes) that finally told people in the Midwest that they had enough of the Mormons and THAT caused them to flee to Utah? Are we really expected to believe that mormons showed up and did NOTHING wrong? Their history is not innocent in the way they tell it.
As an Evangelical, it is my sincere belief that the LDS Church does "church" better than any other. I think they apply the principles and precepts of their faith in a much more effective way than most other Protestant or Catholic traditions.
They also implement the great commission in a more effective and respectful way.
Thank you. That was kind of you, Because the truth is we don’t get much of that from the rest of Christianity.
As LDS, I sometimes have the same thought about you guys.
Sometimes we can get too caught up in all the "Church" things, and forget the essence of it all. Sometimes I appreciate the more simplistic nature of evangelical workship. Not to say that one is better over the other, and to LDS members who understand the central purpose of all the Church things we do, and keep it at the core of their hearts, they are extremely meaningful. But they also become extremely meaningless when the central purpose is lost from our hearts.
@@joaop.barata6062the Mormon church is a man-made Pagan organization started by a white man named Joseph Smith, has absolutely nothing to do with the Jesus of the Bible because Joseph Smith Never restored nothing because the Mormons don't even know what the gospel is and I can ask you as a Mormon when did Jesus start his church according to the Bible Joseph Smith couldn't even answer that question
Being offered a coffee is always a warm gesture. It's a normal thing whether we drink it or not
When, I worked for AT&T (the Mobile Phone company) for 22 years, I had a worker (I was the manager) that would tell me at company gatherings or at our retail store gatherings (dinners, parties, etc.) that he would get me to drink a beer. He knew I was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I would always tell him, if it's not attached to a root, as in root beer, I'm not having it. We'd always laugh about it. In fact, I love root beer, LOL.
LOL (warm gesture), rim shot!
I was raised LDS, haven't been to church in twenty years, but doing baptisms for the dead is one of my most treasured memories. If anything, honoring those who came before us. It also represents the love of Christ better than the "eternal hell" that many Evangelicals threatened me with during my youth.
@@Laguero ♥️
PLEASE, think about coming back to the Church.
And may the Lord Jesus Christ grant that their prayers may be answered according to their faith; and may God the Father remember the covenant which he hath made with the house of Israel; and may he bless them forever, through faith on the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
@@holidayrap Amen. Thank you for sharing your hope and faith.
@@WitnessJesustheChrist You're welcome. And God bless you.
I don't wear garments and pay tithing"in order to" go to the Temple as much as I do those things because it helps strengthen my relationship with Jesus and binds me to Him and His atonement, among many other reasons.
Thanks for another amazing video! I love hearing your honest perspectives.
"Adam fell that men might be, men are that they might have joy". If Adam had never fallen, there would be no sin, no need for a Redeemer, no learning good from evil, no wisdom and learning from our choices, etc. "There must needs be opposition in all things." Without sorrow, we would never know joy. Without strife, we would never know peace.
Do you believe that there will be sinless perfection and happiness in heaven (Celestial Kingdom) even without sinful opposition? If so, you are beginning to understand the Biblical position on what was intended for mankind in the garden before sin corrupted our relationship with God.
@kathealey, yes, I think Pastor Jeff would agree that he might not have Joy... had Adam never fallen. ;)
Seriously though, in a sense, I can agree with those quotes. God already knew Adam would fall, and purposely set up the conditions to allow it... as you are reminding us. One of the points to be made in the Creation account in the Garden is to prove to us the following -
Once God gave agency to His Creatures (Adam and Eve), even the most pure and innocent are not capable of keeping His Commandments (even just one) perfectly. In addition, it proves to us that God saves His People from their sins... even without them needing to earn it by working for it. The wisdom (knowledge rightly applied) we ultimately learn is to put our faith in what God has done, and is doing, for each of us fallen sinners.
And none of us would be here because they would have had no children.
@@wteg4356Adam was a black man him and Eve, but God called them both Adam
@@wteg4356Can you show me in the Bible where it says that Adam and Eve were unable to procreate before the Fall?
The atonement is an example of proxy and vicarious means.
To accept the doctrine of the atonement of Jesus Christ is to accept the doctrine and principle of vicarious proxy.
@@nathanshaw6303 amen, any proxy work is an extension of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to those who did not have the opportunity in the flesh.
Amen, all proxy work is an extension of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
The ultimate example... in fact.
Water is always a good choice of drink.
In the hot summers where live, beer was a staple to cut the heat. It works as well as water, maybe due to the hops, barley, and wheat. When I became a Latter-day Saint that was a hard thing to live without mainly in summers. I always saw coffee and tea as unhealthy substances, and had given up smoking years before.
@@user-og2wt3le4jThere's always lemonade, y'know.
Water tastes good in areas of Utah because it comes right from the mountains. In California, that is true the closer you live to the Sierras and Cascades, but as you get closer to the big cities, the water has peed on up river multiple times
In big lake Texas, nope, water is not a good option, it is horrible. Everyone makes kool-aid or use tea spices just to handle it. It tastes like metallic mud.
As an alternative to coffee or tea, you could offer lemonade, orange juice (any fruit juice really), V8, basically any soda, herbal tea, milk or chocolate milk (my fave), liquor (wait, not that), flavored water, hot chocolate, or gatorade/power adequate.
Wow. This was so uplifting. Thank you so much for not slandering our faith and especially of your words about being respectful of our garments. You are a breath of fresh air and an embodiment of a true disciple of Jesus Christ.
I served an LDS mission to the South (Georgia and Alabama). I loved so much about the protestants and evangelicals that I came into contact with daily. They were not afraid to talk about Jesus. They loved him. And he was their friend.
When they pray it does not seem rehearsed. But it seems more like a prayer or a conversation to a friend who they trust will help them. Speak in conversations about Jesus freely, without fear of giving offense. When they sing, they actually seem to be praising their Lord and Savior.
As an LDS people, we have so much to learn from these good Christians! When we sing, we should praise! When we speak of him, we should praise! And we should do so freely and often! When we pray, we should pray to him as a friend. When we trust, we should trust in him and his redemptive power!
I appreciate so much what you are doing To bring the LDS people and the protestant people together!
You learn something new everyday. Add this to your shocked list Jeff. I was told growing up that protestants relied on rehearsed prayers, and latter-day saints turned it into a conversation. So perhaps sometimes it's the opposite?
I must admit I love your video. I’m a lifelong member of the Church, born and raised in Dallas. Pastors and people from all manner of evangelical beliefs rarely dive in and learn the core basics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, to the point where they can explain it without a twinge of cringe. Thank you for this thoughtful approach to understanding the religion. You guys seem awesome, ‘nice and respectful.’ Thank you.
Great job Pastor. Thank you. Addressing the church as the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints helps me feel comfortable listening to “Hello Saints.”
Adam and Eve eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Then God says, “And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.” And, as John taught, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” So, becoming like Father is the goal, and the fall was necessary to get us on that path.
Despite being raised Roman Catholic, I am often surprised that more Christians don’t believe in a pre mortal life. Regarding the volunteerism, I believe that this drives (at least partially) out of the covenants that we make in the temple. As others have remarked, your respectful treatment of things sacred to us is very much appreciated.
Absolutely. I remember seeing a bible on display in the British Library that had illustrations from hundreds of years ago depicting the war in Heaven before God created the earth. It was a testament to me that truth and knowledge has been lost over time.
Always enjoy your videos. I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints and it's very interesting to hear what you have to say because I came from your world into this world. That's always joyful to have joy involved
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
How dare you bring up Paul.... lol
I would have loved to hear their discussion of the biblical roots of baptisms for the dead, but they didn’t mention it. The discussions are always respectful but lacking in “the why” of why we believe certain doctrines.
Death seals a man's fate
Mosiah 2:36-39;
Alma 34:32-35
Heathen Saved Without Baptism
Moroni 8:22-23;
2 Nephi 9:25-26
Mosiah 15:24-27
"It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment."
********************
I Cor. 15 Pagans were baptizing for the dead. Notice the word THEY
The idea that we cease sinning after death is not taught in the Bible. Are those who go to hell suddenly sinless and perfect? No. Those who go into eternity without Christ will be confirmed in their wickedness. The hard-hearted will be eternally hard-hearted. There will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” in hell (Matthew 25:30), but no repentance.
Sinners in hell will be given over to their own nature; they will be sin-infected, evil, immoral, and depraved beings for all of eternity, forever unredeemed and unregenerate. The lake of fire will be a place of eternal rebellion against God-even as that rebellion is judged (Revelation 20:14-15; cf. Revelation 16:9, 11). Unsaved people do not only sin for 70, 80, 90, or 100 years. They sin for eternity.
What it comes down to is this-if a person wants to be separated from God for eternity, God will grant that desire. Believers are those who say to God, “Your will be done.” Unbelievers are those to whom God says, “Your will be done.” The will of the unsaved is to reject salvation through Jesus Christ and remain in sin; God will honor that decision, and its consequences, for eternity.
@@Anti-Dentite907 Now if there is no resurrection, what will THEY do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are THEY baptized for them?
If baptism saved people, then there would have been no need for Jesus to be immolated on a cross.
I Cor. 15 is speaking of the surety of the resurrection. Even non-Christians knew that they would be resurrected and give an account to God. Hence, they were baptizing for the dead.
salvation is a personal matter-it cannot be conferred upon anyone based on the faith of someone else.
Baptism is not a requirement for salvation in the first place (see Ephesians 2:8; Romans 3:28; 4:3; 6:3-4).
The Mormon practice of baptism for the dead is unscriptural and traces back to Marcionism, a heresy of the mid-second century AD.
The rite of baptism is a way for the living to proclaim their faith and commitment to Jesus Christ. It is not to merit grace or confer the hope of salvation upon the dead.
As an evangelical, my perspective of this verse is that I notice the pronouns. "they" baptize the dead. Not "we". The point of the chapter is that there will be a resurrection of the dead. There are no commands or instructions on how to do it. It's like me saying, "We should believe in the resurrection . Even LDS believe in the resurrection, otherwise why would they baptize the dead". It's also noteworthy to me that Paul hardly baptized anyone (1 Corinthians 1:14). If it's so important, why didn't he?
The two of you are so respectful and KIND about our beliefs. It is so refreshing. Thank you!
After serving my mission in Georgia and Alabama I really gained a great appreciation and a bit of holy envy for the Protestant focus on grace. At the time I was serving, our culture seemed to be afraid of talking about Jesus' grace, maybe due to thinking people would get the wrong idea and just adopt an attitude of, "I can do whatever I want and repent later". What I discovered while reading the Book of Mormon while surrounded by the great faith and love of the Savior that protestants have, is that the Book of Mormon very clearly teaches that we can do absolutely nothing that warrants our own salvation (Mosiah 2-3). Christ paid the price fully and wholly. The things we are asked to do does not earn us a spot in Heaven but rather sanctifies ourselves so that we'll want to be there. When we are offered the sacrament, there is always enough for us to partake, our choices and actions determine whether we feel comfortable taking what we are offered.
Thank you, Joy and Pastor Jeff. Our joy in the Fall of Adam and Eve is Heavenly Father sending Jesus Christ to redeem us from our sins. He allows us agency to choose for ourselves, but loves us enough to send His Son to rescue us when we make mistakes. Because of Christ we are saved. I know you believe we are saved by Jesus, as well. Thanks again, for your respectful honesty!
But don't you believe that you are saved only partly through Jesus and partly through your own efforts? As the 3rd Article of Faith states "We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Jesus' work on the cross is insufficient for the LDS, they must add their works to His to qualify for salvation. By contrast, the Bible teaches that we are saved not by our own works, but through his mercy and grace. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7, Romans 3:28) Works come after salvation as evidence of the work Jesus has done in saving us (Ephesians 2:10)
@tkc3742 Christ is the Savior. The only way to the Father is through him. However, simply believing in Christ is not salvation. Faith is belief in action. Having faith in Christ requires us to act "Christ-like." Jesus said,"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect." The second greatest commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves can only be done by behaving as Jesus did. That doesn't take away his grace. it validates it. I can be saved if I repent, am baptized, and strive to live a Christ like life. James said, "Faith without works is dead." I show faith in Christ by doing things, living the Gospel, loving my brother, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked.
@@tkc3742 Jesus Christ is the Savior
@@onedadinplaid159 Then you are contradicting Romans 10:9: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." If you are truly saved, then your works will naturally follow. We do not do good works to be saved, we do good works because we are.
Now compare that to the LDS requirements of temple work in order to achieve exaltation thru the Law of Eternal Progression.
@@tkc3742Roman's ch.5 explains how we are justified through the blood of Christ and Roman's Ch. 6 explains clearly that if we are made new in Christ through repentance and baptism, that grace may abound... we shall not continue in sin. By His grace we are saved, being made free from sin, (v.18) becoming the servants of righteousness! The ransom was paid for our sins by the grace of Christ but it does require our obedience to His commandments and putting forth fruits of holiness. That requires our 'works' to be pure and holy, that we may become servants of God and become like Christ. He was sent to save us FROM our sins, not IN our sins. We must turn our hearts to Him and become like Him. It's an important nuance of understanding that is often misinterpreted about our faith.
Christ did not isolate His teachings in separate scriptures but taught in parables and stories. We often have to read and study many scriptures to have a deeper understanding of the context and meaning of one scripture. Taken out of context, it would be easy to assume that we have no part in our own salvation, when in fact we must be partnered with Christ for His grace to be sufficient. There is NOTHING we can do of ourselves to be saved. But we must follow Christ and repent in order for His grace to cover us.
I hope that didn't sound like I was talking in circles. Just trying to explain it from different angles, yo help clarify our belief.
Wouldn’t God needing to mount a “rescue mission” after the fall of Adam and Eve insinuate that it was an unexpected or an unknown event to God? If God is all knowing and timeless (which I believe as well) wouldn’t that be impossible? The Plan of Salvation essentially states that God knew Adam and Eve would fall so He had a pre-existing plan in place. To me, it seems more logical. I could be misunderstanding what people mean when they say God mounted a “rescue mission” but it just seems that the Plan of Salvation is more consistent with the being of God
The pre mortal life also explains the question of evil so much clearer and cleaner. If God is all powerful and created us out of nothing, why were Adam and Eve even capable of sinning? Surely God could create people like himself in which case they too would be incapable of sinning. It also helps understand the need for an atonement. If God can create from nothing, then he should be able to change imperfect to perfect without the need for an atonement and likewise, why can’t he change those going to hell to a perfect state and save everyone? Without the premortal state, so many beliefs make no sense to me.
@@brainhunter1000 I 100% agree
Glad I saw you posted it first, because I was about to make the same point.... God is not reactive, He is proactive
@@feen-xmusic1137 I like that phrase. If God were reactive, he wouldn’t be in control. At some future point how do we know something else God didn’t intend happens? Like can we fall from heaven? What happens if we enter heaven and realize it isn’t what we thought and decide to take of our own fruit and be kicked out of heaven?. Could that happen?
Yup… he knew we would fall and already had a plan to rescue us.
“For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-”
Ephesians 1:4-5 NIV
Jeff and Joy - thank you so much for this video. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I really appreciate your willingness to have these types of open, respectful, courteous and open minded conversations. It matters.
I was a Protestant Christian for most of my life before I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints: in my mid 40’s. I truly love what Pastor Jeff is doing to create conversation and understanding.❤
I remember clearly debating with my pastor that I would not go to hell because I still believed in Jesus Christ… But he would not hear me. So I particularly love the dialogue.
So much respect for any person no matter what faith who really believes and follows...it is always inspiring talking to Christians, Muslims Amish and LDS Saints who really believe and live it! GOD IS ONE and we should love everyone esp as Christian's we are truly cousins although we practice and interprets the scriptures differently.
Great summaries of our teachings. Thanks for taking the time to learn and present them accurately.
What I admire most about the LDS church as a non-member, is they are a tight knit group, with hundreds of billions of dollars in cash, owning farmland, etc. and in the case of a global collapse their church would be in a strong position.
Thank you so much for making a positive comment about the Church’s financial position. While others have ridiculed us for it. I have been happy to pay many thousands of dollars in tithing over the years because I know that the tithing of faithful Latter-day Saints is considered sacred by the Church and not spent on extravagant living by the hierarchy as it is in some other Churches. You rightly assume that those resources will be used to help Church members and nonmembers alike in the event of calamities. The Church is already doing that.
Yes and people that mocked us before will probably then crawl toward us saying “help us!”….and the church would, because they are forgiving and willing to help everyone, even those who would be our enemies.
And even though we do have all that money, we don’t just hoard it all and make our prophets rich. They do get a modest amount just to help provide their basic needs. But nothing fancy. And we use a lot of money for humanitarian projects like going to areas with disasters and providing things they need, helping people through school, providing places like Deseret Industries that teaches people how to work and trains them for jobs. It does a lot of good with its money, while also having reserves for a “rainy day”
@@JonathanDaniels-z4t yes while I’m not a Mormon, I’m a Catholic, I do appreciate the structure of the LDS church. Good leaders doing good things. I simply don’t believe a lot of the doctrines, but the LDS religion seems to live out the religion that Christ called us to. I personally believe the Protestant “cult” for lack of a better term really screwed up Christianity and brought in all kinds of false teachings that makes them hate Mormons. I think a lot of it is jealousy.
I’m so very grateful to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I feel protected by the covenants I have made. I feel clothed properly by wearing the temple garments. I feel powerful after doing temple work. Having been a member for 42 years now I have seen the wonderful consistency of doctrine, leadership and teaching which have shown me that our Heavenly Father’s plan is perfect.
In Sunday School this morning part of our discussion centered on "Honor thy father and thy mother". The question arose "what if my relationship with my parents, or a parent, was an abusive one?" Good discussion - which seemed to center on: the idea of honor is more a question of what I do with my life than what the parents may have, or have not, done with theirs. That, regardless, if i choose to do and be good - to make righteous choices - that rebounds as honor for the parent - whether or not they are perceived as worthy of that honor.
I grew up in the Catholic church and was very active in my worship. I will always be thankful for those days, and for the beautiful way in which my spirit developed and was ‘prepared’ for me to embrace the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Recently a couple of ladies from the Jehovah Witness faith have spent time in my home. We respectfully discuss doctrine and look for more common beliefs than differences. We acknowledge our differences and discuss them with dignity.
Last time they came they thanked me for being kind to them - they said not everyone is. They too are enjoying learning about LDS doctrine. We share with each other to learn and understand - not to convert. I like to think I have two new friends in town.
Thank you so much for this.... Sadly most of the Jehovah Witnesses I meet around here (in Nigeria) usually avoid conversations once they hear we're from the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.... I'll try to inculcate your habit of trying to be more welcoming tho. Thank you again
When I first read the famous novel ‘The Brothers Karamazov’ by Dostoevsky, I couldn’t really understand what Ivan’s issue was that was making him lose faith in God. He said it was the problem of evil and the suffering of the innocents. However what I didn’t realize is that I was looking at it from the point of view of someone raised as a Latter Day Saint. I took it for granted that we are eternal beings and lived as spirits prior to this mortal existence and chose to come to earth to gain experience and knowledge. I saw from this perspective that evil and suffering existed to provide opposition and give us a chance to choose God. Suffering has an essential purpose in this world view.
So when I learned and thought about the traditional perspective of a Christian that God would create us into suffering and limit the prospects of salvation it made much more sense what Ivan’s concern was. Why would God create any one of us if we were destined to suffer and be condemned? I can understand why in this worldview the garden of Eden would be so awful to a traditional Christian. So I’d say the interesting thing is that when I ponder the Protestant view of our existence and what happened at the garden of Eden I have the exact reaction that you do to our view.
That's interesting. A topic that would be worth exploring is what it's like for an LDS person, particularly if raised in the Intermountain West to interact with Western culture generally. I'm not talking about the secular things, but how traditional Christian beliefs are woven into it, even among non-Christians. Few would have trouble understanding the dilemma in the book you mentioned - a good number may have wrestled with it themselves. But many other key pieces of literature from Western history are steeped in traditional Christianity as well.
Thoughts?
Dostoevsky was such an amazing writer.
I was born in Utah then moved to Texas when I was 10 so I was exposed to a lot of evangelical beliefs. I’m pretty sure I would be atheist if I hadn’t been taught the LDS faith. So many things that don’t make sense otherwise.
I’m always impressed with how consistently respectful you are towards the Church and its members. I’m learning the benefits as a recipient of your approach of being curious, and it motivates me to be curious towards other faiths and, more broadly, other people.
I’m curious if through this journey you think the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is closer or further from evangelical theology than you originally thought. For me personally, I think we’re closer in related doctrines than I first thought (e.g. salvation). There are unique doctrines between the two, but the common ones are more common than not (with perhaps the obvious exception being the perspective of the Garden).
Thank you for the stalwart example. Keep up the great work!
I've recently noted an uptick in Channels where somebody makes a big deal about reading the Book of Mormon, attracts a Latterday Saint Audience, and the subsequently makes some pushback, and then starts talking about what Church people should check out, and they always seem to be engaged with "Curiousity" then suddenly do a 180, and it becomes an All Evangelical Channel, but the funny thing is some of the language they used was super Evangelical. There has even been people in my local Community networking with people who coordinate with people the Missionaries meet with, and try to Engage "With Curiousity" and use tropes to try, and indoctrinate the Missionaries by demoralizing them, and they especially don't like me because I was an Evangelical, and from experience I haven't really changed all that Much, and I know about things that don't exist within their Homogenous Script that they don't have answers for, and in some ways undermines fundamental teachings such as Sola Scriptura because I know there is more then one Bible which exists today, and probably more which did exist outside of the Orthodox/Catholic East, and West. And entire Scriptures which were destroyed, or Lost that we did not have a record of until the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I distinctly remember going to see the Dead Sea Scrolls at the Pacific Science Center as a Child, and talked to someone about how it Proves that the Bible is True, and this Young Girl about my age turns around smiling, and joyfully proclaims. "AND THE BOOK OF MORMON!" It would be another few Decades before I gained a witness of that Book, and God's Plan of Salvation, but shes right...No Sola Scriptura....No excuse to point to a book and call it The Living Word. When Jesus Christ is the Living Word.
My Mom used to force me to speak in Tongues and put my Hand on The Living Word, and hold up the Bible like it actually had significant Power to an uneducated and Ignorant Mind.
At that point it doesn't matter what the words are contained therein it just becomes a Bludgeon.
Our Prophets, and Twelve Apostles, in these Latter Days, have taught, especially recently in 2023-24, that our own Salvation comes to us through Christ as we make Covenants (promises) to him, when we attend, in one of His temples, (for), OUR first time ! It is a very sacred experience which, if we are faithful, do everything right (like, in obeying his Commandments, and striving to live a Christlike life -- having his kind of charity for all), then there is a good chance we will be able to live in the highest or Celestial kingdom !
The Prophet and Twelve Apostles have taught that if we want to obtain the highest glory in the Celestial Kingdom, we need to be married, not just 'for time' (only during life on Earth) like as in Evangelical church weddings, BUT, for all Eternity through the 'Sealing Ordinance' in one of Christ's holy temples, after we have FIRST obtained the ordinances for our own Salvation, first, in one of the temples, previously -- we must continue to live Christlike attributes to be continually loved by God, and Christ, and our Eternal companion loving them forever faithfully, and no other, while they are alive.
Is it 'Theology' (as in other Evangelical churches), or 'Principles of the Gospel' in our Savior, Jesus Christ's church ! ! (?)
I believe it is the latter 'four words' that Jesus Christ, our Savior, prefers it to be called, in his church, by our baptized church members. :-)
"We believe that the first four Principles and Ordinances are : First, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ; 2nd, Repentence ; 3rd, Bsptism by Immersion (by proper authority of the Aaronic Priesthood which John the Baptist held when he baptized Jesus Christ, or by the Melchzidek Priesthood which Jesus Christ was given by God the Father's hands, believed, laid on Christ's, his son's head, and covered by doves, with which Melchizedek Priesthood authority Christ went about doing God's will and purposes obediently on Earth until Crucified by the Jews) ; and, 4th, the 'Laying on of Hands' by those in authority of the Priesthood of God (which Christ received by the Melchizedek Priesthood of God, and passed on through Christ's original Twelve Apostles, down to the Latter-Day Prophets of today).
Amen
Consider the video "wolf in sheep's clothing" on the Missionary Discussions channel on TH-cam. How you say something can obscure quite a lot of what you're saying.
Thank you so much for your intelligent and respectful commentary! As a lifelong Latter Day Saint with generations of faithful members in my family, I very much enjoyed hearing and considering your insights. Bravo !!
Jeff and Joy, I have had the privilege to watch you through this journey of discovery and understanding. I love your videos and your genuine desire to connect with our faith and understand The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I grew up in a small town in Washington and there were only 45 members in our branch. So, I had friends of other faiths and beliefs and learned that it was okay. I moved to Utah 35 years ago as a young teen and experienced a culture shock. I am grateful for your insight and respect. Keep up the amazing work and may God continue to bless you and your family.
As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is so wonderful to have someone actually explore our Church with an open mind and heart. Thank you! Your videos are inspiring and insightful and I look forward to more.
An LDS guy listening to you speak. You and your wife would be WONDERFUL as a Bishop and wife in an LDS Congregation. Your respect and careful expression of beliefs you don't share is also very impressive. Your sincerity and obvious good will are inspirational and comforting in a world where constant denigration of others is the norm.
When l first joined the church l was a coffee addict and l thought l was gonna continue l mean God would understand but l just stopped and l never touched it again that was 14 years ago.
I need that same power to quit soda!
Many people wear symbols to represent their faith and commitment to it. Weather it's the different levels of Jewish faith (especially Orthodox), Sikhs, some Buddhist, hindus, and even Christians wearing a cross. In some faith traditions only the leaders such as preachers, priests, nuns, monks, rabbis, popes, etc wear symbols of faith such as a priest wearing a special collar. Some only wear symbols or sacred clothing only when they are performing the role or ceremony. Why are we treated differently? Like a evangelical wearing a cross or jew wearing a yamika, we also wear symbols of our commitment and promises to God.
You are an incredible for reaching out to learn about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints❤ Thank you for making these videos to share. You and your wife are great examples of Christlike people❤ I have enjoyed everything you share!!! Thank you❤
Love these videos and the openness and respect you guys give to not only the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but our doctrines and practices as well. I love learning about your beliefs and what it is like for you to live in Utah. We welcome you!!
I like that you paired the things that “shock” you with things you really admire about Latter-day Saints. Way to end on a positive note!
Pastor Jeff, it’s so great to have you be able to understand lds theology. You are growing in wisdom and stature
Jesus Christ is the Lord.
He will return to Earth soon.
He will reign as King of Kings!!!
Pastor Jeff, I am so glad I found your channel. I am a member of a non-denominational Christian church, but I have fallen in love with, and am engaged to be married to a beautiful woman from the Philippines who happens to be a member of the LDS church. Out of a respect for and a desire to understand her beliefs I have been attending Sunday sacrament services at the local LDS branch, as well as studying with missionaries and reading the book of Mormon. I have to say that the more I study and learn, the more certain I am that God wants me to "grow where I'm planted", and I feel no urge or desire to join the LDS faith, but the love and respect that she and I feel for one another allows us to accept each other as we are. She knows that she will never be able to be sealed with me in the temple, but I believe through my own personal faith walk that God knows the fulness of my feelings for her in my heart, and that He can choose to grant my fervent prayer that I desire to be her husband for all of eternity. I know most Christians don't believe in eternal marriage, but I do, and I don't believe it is within the sole purview of one denomination or that eternal marriage can only take place in an LDS temple. (Where two or more are gathered in My name, I am with them). Only God will answer that for us in the next life.
Thank you again for your insightful, respectful videos exploring the differences and similarities between our faiths.
This was so beautifully done. Thank you for the respect and kindness given towards us LDS members. It’s not very often a podcast goes this direction when talking about the “Mormons” thank you thank you.
I just have such deep respect for you both. Both of you have taken the time to learn all about the church and our beliefs. It is amazing to me how deep of a knowledge you have in such a short time. I think you are beautiful people. You are doing such a great work.
Protestant here living in Utah Valley..it can feel overwhelming here, but GOD IS GOOD!
Why does it feel overwhelming to live in Utah? Asking not to be obnoxious but out of genuine curiosity.
It was when I lived in Idaho as well. Whenever someone asked if I were a "member of THE church", I knew which church they were speaking of.
@@Longe Why would that be overwhelming? Still curious. Did that make you angry? Did you feel as if you were being attacked or felt that you had to explain your beliefs? Did you not like being asked if you were a member of the LDS church especially when you were (are) living in a community where that is the dominant religion? I’m curious to know your thoughts.
God is good and He is also love. He loves all of His children, no matter what religion we choose to embrace. Jesus commanded us to love one another as He loves us. So don’t feel overwhelmed brother, feel welcomed and loved. Because if we are following our Savior, we love you.
@@LongeWhen did Jesus start his church according to the Bible?? And what happened to GOD'S church According to the Bible
I love this show! I love learning about other faiths, but I’ve also learned things about my faith from your show. I appreciate the way you are so respectful of others beliefs, and hope that you find that in return.
Pastor Jeff -
As a Latter-day Saint, I so appreciated your kind, thoughtful presentation on “shocking beliefs” of the Saints. My husband of over 40 years is not LDS (Baptist and Calvary Chapel background). As you can imagine, this has led to some very interesting (and sometimes intense) discussions over the years, which ultimately have increased our understanding of each other’s beliefs in spite of some seemingly significant differences. As you were discussing the various unique LDS doctrines, you mentioned several times that they were not a part of “Biblical Christianity”. I wanted to share with you just a few biblical scriptures that I believe tend to lend credence to those beliefs. In the interest of time and space, I won’t quote each scripture but will just list the scripture references which you can look up if you wish. KJV (our preferred version).
Pre-mortality: 1 John 3:2; Hebrews 12:9; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Job 38:2-7; Jeremiah 1:4,5; Ephesians 1:3-5; Acts 17:26; Acts 17:27-29
Satan/Lucifer: Isaiah 14:12-15; Revelation 12:7-9; Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4
Fatherhood of God: Hebrews 12:9; Acts 17:27-29
Garden of Eden: 1 Peter 1:19,20 (Christ foreordained before the foundation of the world - his sacrifice was part of the plan) 1 Timothy 2:14 (Adam was not deceived-had understanding)
Post mortal salvation/Baptism for the dead: John 5: 25, 28; 1 Peter 3:18-20; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 Timothy 2: 3-4; 1 Corinthians 15:29
Trinity: John 1:38; John 17:3-5; Hebrews 1:1-3
I’ve had many good Evangelical friends through the years, and it’s always been interesting to me that in spite of some different interpretations and understanding of scripture, the differences we seem to have do not wipe out the similarities, which is why I believe that we often tend to be drawn to one another. God bless you on your continued genuine search for understanding and knowledge. I look forward to following your ongoing journey!
What lovely people you are and what nice things you have to say about our church! I'm glad you are having a good time in Utah and are open and respectful to us. I hope that we can always be that way to others. Let's all go forward and not look back.
I would love to see a video about your experience at Welfare Square. I think that many Latter-day Saints would be surprised by the magnitude of the humanitarian effort that originates there.
What percentage of the church's liquid assets do you think the work done at Welfare square represents?
@@tkc3742not a lot, but by comparison much more than others.
Being LDS, I have had some interactions and connections with Protestants but many times that attempt was shut down due to misunderstandings. Then my best friend went from LDS to Protestant and our friendship accommodated this shift. I LOVE the deep focus on the relationship with Jesus among many Protestants. We have Bible study together, and have found delight in finding both common ground and in differences. I respect and love having open and non threatening dialogue that helps me understand the different views and perspectives. I have grown to really love all Christians.
I love Joy's thoughts on therapy and baptisms, and the way she related them. Super insightful. It's something I'm going to have to process, but the spirit confirmed there was truth in what she shared. Thanks
My grandmother said she believed she would be singing praises and worshiping God for eternity and that’s it after this life. My brain couldn’t wrap around that. I believe we will worship of course but we will be learning, progressing and building on our relationships with each other.
The other shocking thing was learning that we are not viewed as Christian. I love Jesus Christ. How could I not be Christian?! I watched one of your videos that explained this. Our understanding is very different. I find comfort that Christians, Jews and Muslims all pray to the God of Abraham. It’s beautiful that while our understanding differs, our prayers are directed to the God of Abraham.
The other shocking idea I have heard is that people believe those who did not know of Jesus and have the opportunity to accept Him go to hell. I believe everyone will have the opportunity.
Okay, one more thing.. The belief that the Bible is all God has to say and that we can’t have a modern prophet. (That’s two more things. 😂) The Bible is a history of sacred Word, compiled into one. Who is to say there isn’t more? Who decided that is all God has to say?
I loved that you brought up healing multigenerational trauma. It’s beautiful that we live in a time where this is becoming more understood and being addressed. Yay for changing what is passed on to the next generations!
I think for the missionaries to say there are things about their own beliefs that they themselves "haven't been told yet" sounds like gnosticism, and that is very disturbing when combine with their sense of priesthood authority. Because what kind of authority do you have when you don't know something about it with regard to the gospel? There isn't anything secret about the gospel, or held back from certain members of the church or from the people in general. So this is a red flag if ever there was one! Also, why would a missionary say that to an outsider about something internal in the church unless they felt vunerable themselves about a lack of transparency.
With watching alot of these videos I have learned to have a genuine openness and understanding of Mormon persons as a non denominational Christian person. I just hope to one day have a good conversation with persons of Mormon faith and share with them the reason I have faith and maybe it would help to show not all Christians are hateful and spiteful of other religions. The commonality is love at the end of the story. It's showing Jesus love to the world. I hope to reflect the same in my faith journey like this pastor does.
Maybe my favorite video to date. Great insights and very constructive. I would add 3 other admirable things that I don't see done as well in other faiths. 1) The church educational system (Seminary & Institute) which focuses on scriptural learning far beyond typical Sunday School and weekly youth group meetings. Most active LDS kids attend a 1-hour religious class 5 days a week in the school year. In essence, this gives 9-12 graders an intensive theological education far beyond the simple catechism of other Christian youth. 180 days X 4 years explains why our YM & YW are pretty well prepared to serve missions all over the world right out of HS. 2) The missionary training centers and our huge missionary force of proselyting and service missionaries is unparalleled as an unpaid voluntary service that teaches our people, especially in their key formative age, service & sacrifice. 3) The concept of a non-professional congregation is a secret weapon because though it relies on "amateurs" to take responsible callings, it also builds the members to be "disciples-in-action", instead of relying on a few who grow as having the pastoral "career". This means intentionally "tweaking" dynamic congregations by splitting active, successful Wards and Stakes. This immediately doubles the "workload" for the new congregations which REQUIRES a level of devotion and individual responsibility that assures the members become stronger as "participators" instead of "spectators". Keeping wards smaller also builds a tighter sense of community and fellowship almost impossible in Mega Evangelical churches. The LDS church would never dream of having a Mega congregation because personal membership engagement works better with small, close-knit families rowing their own boat to shore than riding in a yacht maintained by a professional crew.
Those 3 secrets have made the LDS church strong, even when smaller 1)--Solid "seminary" training of all youth to prepare theological and confident new generations. 2.) Missionary experience of millions of members in true altruistic service for years during formative years. 3) Constantly forcing the members themselves to do the work with no purpose other than discipleship.
I agree, I'm upvoting this video for sure. However I do disagree with the whole we've got an effective missionary program thing. They only have small mission groups cooperating with a handful of full-time ministers in all of protestantism ministering to developing countries--completely dwarfed by JW and latter-day saints, but I crunched the numbers, and shockingly protestants grow better than anyone in developing countries. It's extremely effective. Now they may not be able to keep these planted churches orthodox, but people come home feeling heard and understood and successful. I'm not dinging on the Lord and his chosen servants for the missionary program. I'm just saying the church goes all hands-on-deck when they return because so many want to leave the church after being controlled and not heard. Stakes confiscate temple recommends they have to renew quickly, assign people to minister to them, hand out callings, make them take My Plan therapy classes, make them give a positive only talk, and now all of them get scholarships at church schools. So many of them are buttered up, you did the right thing, it's for the best, you're more righteous for it, that they, to the leaders surprise, swear off marrying anyone but a returned missionary, making more people tearfully feel like they have to go. They parade them around like a hero, making people insist on making the same sacrifices when they go to clean animal cages on service missions so people like them too--it's sad because they'd bring more people to Christ for a lifetime just dating and marrying earlier which some are allowed to do instead of taking a personal vow of celibacy for sweeping the floors in a thrift store, because what baby is worth sacrificing for that? It is insane. I'm so scared for my own child. That doesn't mean it's not inspired, but the purpose of it isn't to keep you in, it's to test you to see if you should continue being a member, that and being completely abandoned as a mom (that's the female equivilent) with no support programs. Once again, I believe Christ directs this church, but I'd be careful about saying that the missionary program works better than anyone else's, that's like saying stoning was the most effective way of getting people in ancient times to love God--that's not why Christ instituted it. Please don't misunderstand, I really don't want to cause anyone to doubt, I just want more people to know what a mission will be like so they WON'T leave the church when they realize they were fed a propaganda version by their friends. So many missions are dead and don't baptize very much and it hurt my husband intensely. That's why it bugged me so much when Jeff was all oh these early missions keep them strong--nah, we're strong in spite of them. This is why everyone is all PRAY FOR the missionaries, it's not the converts they're worried about. Now if I could only get people to regularly pray for all the pregnant moms as much as they pray for the missionaries, then I'd know for sure the church has overcome any sexism.
Thank you for being so respectful. It's really refreshing to see people who are willing to learn about the beliefs of others with a sincere desire to understand. Even better, it's clear that you have a spirit of love in spite of differences.
I got to admit as an LDS person the evangelical understanding of the garden of Eden was shocking to me.
When I first learned that I was like “wait this wasn’t God’s plan all along? So we can mess up God’s plan”
It was very confusing to me.
The other thing that confused me was the trinity. However you have explained it better in other videos than anyone else I have ever heard. Thanks for helping me understand your views better.
I think it great that you can talk about these differences so openly and respectfully.
The trinity makes great sense but you have to ponder it for a long time.
@@jessicaloveridge2759 Actually, the first edition of the Book of Mormon portrayed more a Trinitarian view of God.
In his first First Vision account, Joseph Smith said that “the Lord” appeared to him. There was no mention of God Father and Jesus Christ.
It wasn’t until later that the Church started teaching that the Godhead was made up of 3 separate beings.
I watched your first videos, and I find you much more open and understanding as in the beginning. Thank you very much for your respekt, Pastor Jeff. You are a great exemple.
Joy & Jeff are so nice, so thoughtful. Greatly enjoyed their comments.
Thanks for respecting and defending out temple garments!!!
Since I started watching your videos, I have always appreciated your kindness and reverence when talking about the difference topics pertaining to the LDS faith. Thank you
I’m so impressed of how well Pastor Jeff was able to explain my faith as a Latter-Day-Saint! Whenever people ask me about my faith I struggle to explain it plainly, so this goes to show how deep Pastor Jeff has delved into the faith, this shows great respect! Thank you both so very much! ❤
Thank you for defending the temple garment
It is interesting to note that there are as many Latter Day Saints(17,255.394)in the world as there are Jews(15.7 million).
And our congregational reach is just as global, if not significantly more so.
As a latter day saint, I absolutely love your videos! Thank you so much for these discussions! Your wife is beautiful!
We so appreciate your kind and respectful approach to better understanding LDS beliefs.
Many thanks for making this video. Found it so interesting and respectful. God bless you both and all your loved ones 😊🙏🏻❤️
Great lists from both of you! Has Joy read the Book of Mormon? Does she have any interest? If so, I would be interested in her take on its contents.
Totally. We heard what Pastor Jeff had to say. It would be fun to hear from her point of view ❤
Garments are weird? No way. I come from the Amish. We have the LDS beat on covenant garments. No way could we ladies sneak in a bar for sure.
Latter-day Saints also believe that immediately after the Fall of Adam and Eve, Heavenly Father started what you called a "rescue mission." He immediately provided a Savior, Jesus Christ, to bring Adam and Eve, and later all of us, back into the presence of God. This would not be possible without Jesus Christ. Actually, Heavenly Father knew that Adam and Eve would fall, and Jesus Christ had already agreed to save us before the Garden even existed. We are sent here to earth to learn, grow, make mistakes, repent, and ultimately return back to our Father in Heaven as a perfected person. Adam and Eve needed to bring sin into the world so that we could experience a fallen world and have this essential testing period in our eternal progression.
You were never in presence of GOD so stop lying
@@jameswines6589 how do you know that we were not in His presence before we came to earth? Why do so many people think of heaven as home? Why would it be home if we had never lived there before? Many people have also had experiences seeing their unborn children before they came to earth. Again, I ask, how do you know that we didn't live with God before we came to earth? The fact is, you don't know that.
@@LMGH7 because Jesus would know, John 3:13,
@@LMGH7 take the prophet Moses he was the only man ever to get really close to God when he died why didn't God take him to heaven because God was the one that buried Moses learn your Bible
@@jameswines6589 based on your comments, it's clear to me that you are most likely a Jehovah's Witness, and therefore, you interpret the Bible differently than most Christians. You don't believe that very many people are going to heaven; rather, most good people will live on the earth that will become a paradise some time after they die. You believe that when people die they have no consciousness for a time until they meet their final destination later on (earth for most; heaven for 144,000). That is not what I believe. We can Bible bash back and forth, but in the end, you will not listen to me and I will not listen to you. A big reason I won't listen to you is because you insulted me. Here's a hint for you: if you want people to be willing to listen to you long enough that you might be able to convert them, you shouldn't mock them first. You insulted me twice: first, by telling me that I was lying, and second, that I didn't know my Bible. I am, in fact, much more well-versed in the Bible than most people, and I make it a point to never lie. Here are some Bible verses that teach about people going to heaven after death, but since you see heaven differently, you will probably not interpret them the same way I do: 2 Cor 12:2-4; Luke 23:43; John 14:2-3. The best way to find truth when there is a disagreement or confusion is to ask God and He will reveal it to you in His own way and time. Unlike you, I choose to think you are a good person with good intentions. Have a good rest of your life.
I love how respectful you always are towards my faith, you and your wife are true Christians!
You are doing a great job of being fair in explaining our beliefs and being respectful of things we hold sacred. I also appreciate you referring to the church by our correct name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and not mormons, etc. Thank you very much and we love you both.
Coming from someone who is a bit spiritually homeless right now but who has personal experience in both evangelical and LDS belief systems:
Things that shock me about Protestant evangelical beliefs/practices:
-literal and eternal hell for the vast majority of people across all time
-lack of reverence (specifically thinking about how some church services look more like concerts than acts of worship)
-the Trinity being an essential doctrine while simultaneously most Christians couldn't explain it without some trinitarian heresy (modalism, tritheism, Arianism, etc)
-hypostatic union (Jesus was fully god and fully man)
-how the Reformation did not so much reform the Catholic Church as much as it created many many new ones; do Protestant evangelicals think that the many different denominations we have today was God's intention for his church?
Things that shock me about Latter-day Saint beliefs/practices:
-God the Father has a physical body of flesh and bone
-rejection of the Trinity and belief in three distinct beings with deity, while simultaneously claiming monotheism
-pre-mortal existence, including belief that we are literal spirit children of a Heavenly Mother and Heavenly Father
-the garden of Eden being in Jackson County in Missouri
-that prophet succession is now done by seniority (whoever has served on the Quorum of the Twelve the longest)
-strong preference and universal usage of King James Bible even though more accurate/complete translations now exist; similarly, use of King James style English (Early Modern English) in prayer, claiming it is more reverent despite 'you' being formal and 'thou' being familiar in Early Modern English
-celestial marriage being essential for exaltation
Things that shock me about Christianity in general:
-nature of God. I see reasonable explanations both for and against the Trinity. I would think if God thought his identity so important he would make it explicit in the scriptures he gave to us (I know both "sides" will say there are explicit examples, but each have counters)
-exceptional physical miracles in scriptural times not being witnessed/recorded today (e.g. rod transforming to serpent, parting of Red Sea, talking donkey, surviving in the belly of a whale for 3 days, water turning to wine, dead being raised, etc.)
-how much family is valued and how little attention or value seems to be given to singleness when Paul himself commended it
-how divorce and remarriage is treated given what the scriptures say about it; how the energy that is given to rejecting gay marriage is not given to discouraging divorce/remarriage (unless within scriptural bounds)
So about about the Garden of Eden, please explain to me as a LDS... Do evangelicals then believe that Adam and Eve had children while in the garden of Eden before partaking of the fruit? Because I don't think we believe that because they were "innocent" or "like children". In other words, do evangelicals believe we would have all existed happily and perfectly in the garden if they hadn't partaken of the fruit? Or else, do you believe that we now exist, negatively, because of that horrible sin they committed??
We don't believe they had children before taking the fruit, but there was no reason they could not have. Having sex doesn't mean they wouldn't be innocent. God commanded them to have sex. I don't see in the Bible that they were like children. Creation is cursed because they sinned and ate the fruit. Revelation describes a new earth and the saved will be able to walk with Father God again. It looks to me like it is the Garden of Eden restored. Does that help explain our view?
@@mikematney3439 yeah it does, thank you. Pretty similar in the scriptural evidence (pretty interesting about the garden being humanities eventual heaven 🤔). I just wish the Bible was more clear on it, but that's all we've got to mingle with so far. After this life, a creation/fall timeline would be great to learn from 😅.
Even with our church believing in "on going revelation", there hasn't been much more that has been elaborated on. It seems that if it was clear that they had kids in the garden, it would seem a lot more clear to argue that what they did really prevented us from living a better life... However, we do believe it was a sin they committed, but it just seems like evangelicals believe it was almost a kink in God's plan for us, as opposed to being part of it so we could know the good from the bad, being given the opportunity to choose..
@@bandosz3218 I do think us evangelicals end up presenting it like it was a kink in God's plan. I guess I can't speak for all evangelicals, but my understanding is God is outside of time, knows everything, knew what would happen and had a plan before it all began. It's just that we always have had the opportunity to choose. Not sinning is always the best choice for us and Adam and Eve chose the bad option. They didn't have to choose to eat the fruit though and it could have been paradise forever. It's kind of a hard thing for me to understand, because if God knows what I will choose, do I have a choice kind of thing.
@@mikematney3439 yeah, such a great topic that can get very complicated... From our perspective, it's basically like God said "tongue and cheek" don't eat that fruit over there, Him knowing we would have to eat the fruit in order to progress to this life and then need a Christ and then go to heaven. Super crazy, but I love that these conversations are happening now though and in good light too. We need to realize we're all on the same team when you boil it all down and we'll just see after this life or the second coming who was right or if we were all wrong to begin with 🤷
@@mikematney3439 This makes sense, I'm surprised other latter-day saints don't know this about mainstream Christianity--it's in lots of pop culture and the chronicles of Narnia. I mean that's what I thought when I read kid's bibles from Christian bookstores. I'm cringing at bandoz's last-reply assumption that God said something "tongue and cheek"--just giving you a heads up that we don't all think God is sarcastic like that. So we see it this way: for us we are here to be tested. We could follow God as spirits in his presence but could we follow it with a body and no memory of our past life? A body in the garden was meaningless because no one was suffering. But God didn't want to be mean--so he made sure it was our choice. After the flood the languages were changed--but he waited until it was our choice to not be so mean (but in reality it's for the best to prevent there from being a worldwide dictatorship so in the end God is benevolent). When the children of Israel no longer heard God except through Moses, he waited until it was their choice (probably for the best once again because it was a bit scary and just made them more in trouble because--hey you should know better, I'm here--but even Christ knows faith is better, he said that to Doubting Thomas). I see that pattern a lot in the scriptures. Would it be nice to all speak the same language and hear God directly and live in a garden too, absolutely too, but Christ is wise waiting until the world is cleaned up at his coming to reinstate all that. I think the positive of the fall is that those who live with God again will work with God wisely because they've been tested. Without it life seems meaningless and people who go to live with God could just take the power and rebel like Balaam or Lucifer if they disagree with Him and that's not good in the long run, that's my take. I'm not worried about mainstream Christian interpretation, I don't think it's horrible to believe that, it can be a perfectly logical conclusion too.
At 7:32. I wish everyone could experience a dedicated temple on the inside and feel the Holy Ghost. It is maybe the one place in the world where you can check worldly thoughts at the door and focus on accomplishing the Lord's work. There are no temptations inside and the quiet atmosphere is welcome. I have had more spirituality experience inside the temple than outside, and it is educational. We learn more about God, Christ, ourselves, and our place as eternal beings on earth.
I have the Holy Ghost living inside of me. I was sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment I was born again.
Eph. 1:13-14
I Cor. 6
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
I think you guys are amazing. I am a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and I grew up outside Utah and have had the opportunity to experience many religions, but I know that is not always the case for other.i love how you are always so respectful, and I feel from you that you sincerely want to learn and I love that you share what you believe so others can learn as well and we can all be better, and more respectful of others and their beliefs.
You two are so kind and a great example of Christlike love. I always enjoy watching your videos and your perspective of things. Thanks for bringing your positive influence to this space!
One thought I had as you discussed the different perspectives on the premortal life and the fall in the garden is that from our perspective, God was not surprised by the actions of Adam and Eve, needing to come up some new plan in response. The plan had been discussed and decided upon long before, and it makes me love Christ all the more because in that premortal life He volunteered to perform this sacrifice for all of us, His brothers and sisters. The idea of a war in heaven also shows how Satan's ideas might have been enticing, such as they took the third of the host of heaven. It helps me know that I chose to be here, with some degree of understanding that there would be trials, but that they were and are a big part of why we come to Earth, to gain knowledge and experience that we could not in that premortal life. And this ties to why the garden which was provided as a paradise demonstrating Gods love, and God might have wanted to let us live there forever, but He also knew that we needed to learn in a fallen world, and chose Him and His plan again, without knowledge/remembering our experiences with Him from before. And rather than just putting us in a world like that, He allowed it to be a consequence of a choice.
I feel like that got a little rambly, but to me I love how it all fits together, each piece complimenting the others, and demonstrating Gods knowledge, understanding, Christ's love, and our own participation in the plan, that was from before the foundations of the world