On the one hand they did him dirty, on the other he died before he was part of any of the awful BFA/SL stories, so it's not all bad. (Yes I know he was a minor part in that whole Bwonsamdi thing but I chosse to ignore it.)
Legion definitely had one of the better endings. Felt like an end to an era. While I have issues with Legion, it certainly had some good moments and seeing Sargeras for the first time + Velen's sigh? Pure chills.
Problem with the Legionending is that it would spell a doom over the planet that would begin what we would call an atomic winter and all life that didn't perish after Sargeras stabing the planet would face a suffecating death
Let's face it, all of Legion was just one massive Good Ending. It truly felt like a love letter to what made Warcraft what it is. And hearing Velen's relieved little sigh made me tear up a bit, not gonna lie
Yeah, that sigh said so very much. I can't imagine being hunted for as long as they were and the burdens Velen carried trying to do his best for his people.
That’s the sigh of someone who’s fear and anxiety was finally put to rest. As the titans said “The Burning Crusade is over”. After thousands of years, and countless deaths, the Draenai do not have to run anymore.
@@MikeEsportSweden Because dragonflight is actually good both in terms of storytelling and gameplay 💀 Sure, it's not perfect, but it's really fine piece of entertainment worth of my time.
Vanilla is like a lot of world building. You have no big overall bad but lots of smaller big bads that are either a bit leftover or have some connection to WC. Like the Old Gods, the Black Dragons, KT and so on. It was kinda nice to just read some quests in Classic and see most of these threats being built up by questing over some zones. Like the whole Hakkar egg quest that leads to ZG, the C'Thun bugs that were all over Kalimdor, the remnant Scourge in the north of EK for the Naxx build up. Very nice IMO.
Basically the player characters were adventurers going around being introduced to the world and performing mercenary work or general aiding in other's affairs that they required a helping hand in performing. But afterwards the player characters became messiahs.
@@AlexanderKuznetsovAKASergei Well tbf...like yes it kinda checks out, we go kill Rag with 40 people which is a decent army because someone told me there's shiny loot to have. IMO though, by the point we kill C'Thun and then KT I think we're not just "adventurers" anymore. We're not champions yet but definitely heroes. Killing these guys is surely beyond just being a mercenary I would say.
@@Random25145 Ye i'd figure they'd be heroes on par with footmen units in Warcraft 3 partaking in memorable battles so i assume they'd be designated as heroes as well. Figure WotLK is when "champion" becomes a moniker for the player characters giving them a specific identity within the story considering the raid against the Lich King's Ice Crown Citadel was designed in lore to have the peeps coming after em to be prepared for it so as to minimalize casualties as opposed to throwing random waves of armies at em which would result in the inconvenience of fighting your resurrected brethren, and the Lich King planning to turn said raid party into his servants in undeath would have further cemented the player characters as set further apart from the average mercenary. Thinking back to Tyrion (or was it Terenas's ghost?) resurrecting the fallen player characters, wonder why a similar thing couldn't be done with the corpses of the many past paladins and priests in Light's Hope Chapel when it was being attacked instead of waiting for the undead to get their hands on them. Why not just beat them to it. Guess it's against the religious beliefs of the Light?
It’s also very in line with how a lot of MMORPGs used to be like when it came out, having story yes but not a huge focus on a single large narrative that would then be concluded
I hated what they did to sylvanas. I loved when she yelled “for the horde” as if for once she finally cared about more than the forsaken and herself. It felt shitty that that warcry was a lie and meant nothing
God, yeah. There was even an interview around that time where a dev said that Sylvanas was "just trying to defend her people," and like... tell me, what was it? Did you change your mind halfway through, or did you outright lie for cheap shock value?
I think the very moment BFA jumped the shark is the sequence of us finding out how this war between the Alliance and Horde started, up to the burning of Teldrassil. Many players speculated who did it, because Sylvanas, while the obvious choice, would have been seen as too obvious. Horde being agressors once again, Sylvanas becoming Garrosh 2.0... surely Blizzard wouldn't do something that stupid? And yet, they did. The Saurfang storyline carried the expansion at least, but when it ended with his death the whole expansion came crashing down as they crammed in N'Zoth.
I was naive I tried to believe they had a plan that sylvanas did this for a reason to really free as that she didn't trusted the jailer that she had a plan... and that she was right.. oh boy was I wrong..
Honestly the ending of one expansion shouldn't be judged based on what subsequent expansions did with its premise imo. Mists of Pandaria had a fantastic ending. Vol'jin becoming warchief paid off his whole arc, and Varian showing might as well as wisdom paid off his arc that's been going on since Wrath of the Lich King. Later expansions barely using Vol'jin or having the Horde go through the exact same war crimes story don't make Mists of Pandaria's ending any worse on its own merits.
I love when Nobbel does these kinds of videos. While i do enjoy the lore stuff, i like the change of pace where he just sits down and ranks things or talks about stuff like this.
I still can't believe they ended an expansion about the faction conflict with defeating N'zoth, the old god known for being a master manipulator... and said old god known for being a master manipulator had NOTHING to do with the faction war itself, it was actually this other guy, but no, that guy had an even bigger baddie we've never heard of behind him. What a damn waste.
IMO for Cata, their great purpose was fulfilled in the sense of safe guarding the world, until the people of Azeroth could do so themselves. The fact they could take down a dragon aspect, an empowered one at that, proved that they can now take care of themselves.
HOLY SHIT 18:32 THE ERROR SOUND, THAT'S THE EXACT VIDEO I USED TO PLAY ON REPEAT BACK WHEN THIS CINEMATIC JUST CAME OUT. Nobbel you have no idea the amount of nostalgia you just pumped through my veins.
This became available just as I was about to go to sleep, and honestly, I’ve just watched it start to finish. Superb work. I was genuinely in tears laughing at how dryly you said, ‘yoink out a ukelele and make an apology video for the rest of her life.’ Absolutely golden. Love that you’re a fellow MoP fan, and Illidan’s arc in Legion is just 👌🏻 Great vid!
I don't think Blizz put much thought into Warlords of Draenor. Like okay, Garrosh convinces the orcs to not drink demon blood. Cool cool cool. But the orcs immediately turn into murderous genocide monsters anyways. All that does is confirm that orcs are inherently, intrinsically evil monsters. Probably not what Blizzard intended.
Blizzard seems kinda dead set on convincing everyone the races of the horde are quite the evil monsters, garrosh, the iron horde, sylvanas, the blood elf dude, I mean shit the only chill ones are Tauren, troll and vulpera, even the nightborn are kinda whack yk 💀
15:21 Perhaps one good reason for putting Garrosh on trial was that he's still alive. Both Arthas and Deathwing fought to the death but Garrosh was "only" knocked down and depowered.
You see Sargeras before Antorus, during the Demon Hunters order hall campaign. He's in a big vortex in space using the burning crusade Kil'jaeden model which is really weird and low quality for something done during Legion, but it was pretty cool and I'm 90% sure it's the biggest NPC in the game... maybe I'm misremembering and he wasn't bigger than heroic Rag or Al'Aqir idk
Wait... You mean when you basically go out on the balcony and /rasp at him, denying his offer to join the Burning Legion? I'm pretty sure that was Kil'jaeden. He's used projections where he's huge before.
Like when confronting Illidan just after he took the Black Temple in W3 - despite being shown to be "only" roughly twice or thrice his height both before and after.
I still love the idea that Zovaal is not actually the Jailer, but it is the Primus who is the real Jailer and that Zovaal was dominated by him the entire time. The Primus was the one who was an expert tactician gained by bargaining with the infinite dragonflight, The Primus was the one who created the domination magic, and we dont see the Primus in the ending cinematic, just his shadow.
We go back to Azeroth periodically in Dragonflight, but the scourge is not running wild, which they should be doing since Sylvanas destroyed the helm that controlled them and Bolvar has left the throne. How do you think Blizzard is going to reconcile this?
I don't entirely hate them retiring the role of the lich king in such a way they did but atleast show us more of a reason why a untamed Scourge is bad.
What if I told you... they don't even know that happened? Do you really think it still matters...*gestures around us* in this place? You think that's a cohesive plot, you're playing now? ... *Amused humpf*
I feel like BFA's and Shadowland's endings are SUPPOSED to all drive home the next "Legion" level threat that makes for a great story. But to end an expansion "Early", only to sprinkle in a new problem that wont pay off for 10 years is.... something that should be done in a RTS that can ignore the timeline problem. WC4 could be Black Empire vs Titans Lore. How filthy are the Titan's hands? Cosmic Conflicts across space and time, with their Date locked in according to the "True Timeline". Does Life and Death have a pact? Void attacked Death. Shadow and Order fought. How did the Black Empire start? What was life on Azeroth like BEFORE even the Black Empire? Could even do Old Gods vs each other. The sheer potential of stories that can build the 'Final Conflict' without messing with the Expansion hook is huge. An RTS with 6 races could yield so many DLCs that I'm surprised Activision/Bobby didn't salivate at the potential profits.
Legion's ending and finally seeing Sargeras ingame was such an event for me. I've been waiting for that for the better part of my life (since I was 8). All my childhood, teenage years, and adulthood up to that point. It was AWESOME. It was the event of the decade for me. Great ending to a great expansion. I still feel like we were robbed of fighting him but I just know we'll see him again.
i think it makes sense not to fight him. He could one shot a planet with his sword so i find trapping him through a loophole to be much more satisfying. Fighting a world soul is also pretty cool!
I appreciate the time and effort you put into this video. It inspired me to pick up where i left off in classic wow LK over a year ago. Back at it for awhile.
„arthas, my son“ theme never fails to get me in my feels. can somewhat relate to his lore. (yea i’m edgy like that) nah fr tho i was like 12 when wotlk came out and had been playing since classic. reviewing arthas lore playing warcraft etc when i was older fucked hard.
To me the real ending of BfA was the CGI one before the gates of Ogrimmar, the final resolution of the entire war. N’Zoth was really only just a subplot of the final patch.
This video is amazing and seeing arthas’ cut scene makes me cry to this day he was my favorite character in wc3 and seeing his final moments like that was beautiful
I always took the end of Cata as the aspects fulfilling their purpose of safeguarding Azeroth until more beings could rise up to defend her, not killing deathwing.
I think when it comes to Garrosh at the end of MOP, the reason why the Pandaran's can claim he did the worst to them is that their land pretty much was peaceful, and would'a stayed that way, if the Horde hadn't shown up. Even if the Alliance had just crashed their ships into the island, Anduin could'a kept things chill, but throw the Horde into the mix and then you had the violence that brought out the Sha. Meanwhile we all knew Garrosh was crazy, vindictive, murderous, etc and while bombing Theramore was a WTF moment, it wasn't exactly out of character for him, IMO. Overall, Garrosh did more to 'screw up' Pandaria than he did anywhere else. ETA: I think when it comes to WoD, I agree that the Saurfang/Sylvanas fight should have been the end. What they instead put at the end was better off, at most, one of those side story endings/patch endings. It's like they screwed up the order of how it was supposed to go.
Watching this from start to finish just makes me miss burning crusade, wrath and even cata time frames for the game of WOW itself. Guilds who were family and who strove to conquer what was put in front of us together.
I agree with most of this, personally would've put wrath in S below Legion and mists in A. Its always so frustrating to see how dirty they did my boy Vol'Jin
It is a bit of unfair imo to donwgrade the WotLK ending because of what they did in Shadowlands :P Anyway I agree almost entirely with your takes on the cinematic and lore. I hope they didn't just remove Murozond from the scene because Chromie is just better than anyone. That tragic ending gave a lot of character to Nozdormu and seeing what would actually make him turn into it can be awesome (I still hope that it's not him just going mad but recognizing that he HAS to do it in order to let us defeat him and, by doing so, preserve a timeline where we have a chance ala Dr. Strange).
One thing to note about Naxxramas in vanilla that is often overlooked due to how Warcraft as a franchise has evolved, Naxxramas was the first raid that had you fighting lore characters from the RTS games (though faction leaders were killable, killing them in-game was non-canon and not intended progression), specifically Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad. Prior to that characters from the RTS games only appeared as quest givers. All the raids prior the bosses and their stories were created for WoW, so it was kind of special in the context of 2006. These days seeing lore characters is par for the course, especially since Cata, mostly since the story continues in WoW now, back then that wasn't the case and there was an expectation that if one of the characters from the RTS games appeared in WoW they _had_ to be raid boss tier. That's why in Wrath when Anub'arak was made the boss of a 5-man there was massive outrage up until Blizzard added him as a boss in ToC.
Shadowlands was good in terms of anything not having to do with the Jailer and Sylvanas like that quest where you go into Uther's memeories and relive him becoming a paladin was awesome and so much fun to see played in game. The story of the different zones of the shadowlands was awesome and all the side stories not having to do with the Jailer Or Sylvanas were so fun, meeting up with Vol'Jin, The story with Bwomzamdi i loved all that! but i do agree the story of the Jailer and Sylvanas was tarnished and now Sylvanas is tainted and she is my favorite character and still is regardless of everything that happened and I wish she could come back but now she can't because everyone hates her :( Legion is my favorite ending too and favorite expansion too
#1 You pretty much hit my issue with the Wrath ending, especially when you consider what happened to places like felwood and Western Plaguelands in Cataclysm. Just seemed like we stuck the helmet on his head for nothing to happen, good or bad. #2 Much as I love MoP, fact that the trial doesn't appear in game and is barely mentioned is the biggest middle finger to the player lorewise from blizzard (that b.s. about the twisting nether being the same in all timelines is stupid close though). Such an important moment for a game, that takes place entirely outside of it. #3 The one thing that weirds me out about the ending of legion you can clearly see where Sargeras' hand touches the planet. Surely, that would of caused just as much damage as the sword. A fel-corrupted titan's hand, planted on the planet and nothing? Not even a tidal wave? A huge crater?! Nothing?! And why did he spend so much time pillar humping the planet? Was he just monologuing the entire time? #4 Shadowlands...
The thing about the "there must always be a lich king" felt fine to me back then and now due to a sort of "geanie out of the bottle" situation. Like by this point the scourge has been and continues to ramp under the lich king (and given direction for said "ramping"), but take him away and all that power spills out everywhere unchecked. Like (and this is a bad example) shake up a can of coke, the tab is keeping it in check, no tab and the coke shoots everywhere. Coupled with how the scourge operates, and almost seems to find leaders when one is vacant rather than having a power struggle like the works, the ending makes sense to me but I understand peoples dislike of it.
Nobble. In a short story Blizzard added that the Aspects purpose was to Prevent the Hour of Twilight. Not specifically death wing. But the return of of the Old Gods.
OMG, First MatPat and now Nobbel making a Colleen Balinger reference with the ukulele apology! ^_^ As much as the internet is cursed, it is also blessed.
I agree, BFA should've ended there. Then the next expac hunting Sylvanas and ending things there. No Shadowlands at all. But I think part of the problem is that BFA was affected by Metzen leaving at the end of Legion, the assorted quiet layoffs to head off the SA case then the wild fires followed by the pandemic for SL.
I stopped playing bfa after that so for me that was the ending 💀 glad I skipped out on the nzoth stuff, grinding that damn azurite burned me out at the right moment, that and the SA and harrassment shit also made me skip shadowlands so double win for me I guess 😂 I really liked bfa story wise tho up until nzoth and ashara stuff, they could have kept the old god story line with knifu in bfa and made a whole xpack for nzoth instead
@@AliciaOnlineGameplay For some reason I had no problem with the AP grind in Legion and BFA. It was in SL that it became just too much. I absolutely agree that we should have had a N'zoth xpac instead of SL. In fact, they should never have touched the realm of death and taken away that mystique. They had plenty of setup for Sylvanas's bullshit to be his release. Would have made far more sense.
the sword, I believe, will play a larger role in the future in that, when Sergaras implanted his sword into Silithus, it was because, after so many millennia searching for the Sleeping Titan, he had finally found it, and after being snatched away from it, implanted his sword as a kind of tracker to find it again.. especially after knowing that the Sargerite Keystone can bring him back to her.. .. and his yelling "NO!!" was out of despair as it was being snatched from his grasp.. so yeah, his sword will act as his anchorpoint back to Azeroth..
Good lord Vol’Jin deserved better I really liked the low of kings story line but shadow lands made it forgettable because the one cool thing about shadowlands is overshadowed by sylvanas garbage
Reading the books, there were the few expansions that in-between them filled in those gaps. War Crimes and Before the Storm, more specifically, comes to mind. If haven't read those (like a few of my friends), you were like WTF is going on? It wasn't bad, but having story (not necessarily lore) done like that makes for a confusing story. Same goes for only having story after needing to do Mythic raids to get it. I am just glad that there are videos to pick up on those pieces.
Nobbel, have you ever thought abput covering the whole controversial topic of "it's WARcraft!" Where a lot of people had been complaining how devs have watered down the action and storytelling since the end of BFA to a disney movie degrees of good vs bad?
I haven't played BFA, only having played on a private server and even that was back when i was 7 to 10 years old, instead opting to follow along with the lore via cinematics and lore vids. And i genuinely thought that that cinematic with almost Siege of Ogrimmar 2.0 was the actual ending to BFA.
With sylvanus, I guess you could justify her initial words by assuming she is talking about the living and the dead (undead, forsaken, jailors death army, etc.). By not being united in death, azeroth continues to suffer. Something along those lines.
For the end of cataclysm, i don't think Ale refer specific to dethawing, but the fact that they protected the planet. It was a coincidence that Cataclysm was made by Deathwing...and using the soul stone, the powers disappear and it had nothing to do with the their scope. It was just un unespected event that end up with them having to give their powers to save the world, not to defeat deathwing
35:46 you can explain this QUITE easily away. In order to open a gateway or any kind of portal in WOW (and any other story ever that uses this device) you HAVE TO KNOW WHERE you wanna go or be from that place, in order to be able to get there via a portal. Sargaeras didn’t (and still doesn’t for that matter) know WHERE the planet of Azeroth is inside the WOW universe, whereas Illidan knew. Hence why he couldn’t open a portal
@@Nobbel87 did he though? Wasn’t Medivh contacted by Guldan, and then Medivh just summoned Sarg without Sarg actually being actively involved in that? I don’t quite remember (embarrassed). Plus, at that point maybe he didn’t have the keystone yet.
@@iriswaldenburger2315 Sargerite keystone was way at the beginning. Soul/Medivh bit = Demons summon his avatar onto the world - Avatar infects Aegwynn - From Aegwynn into Medivh - Does the dark portal/Horde bit. So that's a clear moment in which Sargeras was on azeroth, but he's been near her before, going back all the way to War of the Ancients portal
35:00 The keystone is a gateway to Legion's conquered planets. He never conquered Azeroth so he couldn't link it to it. The keystone was use from Azeroth so it could open a gateway to Argus, but not the other way around. Legion : Legendary system ? This is what i loved the most, cause i don't raid, i could get Legendary drop.
I think my favorite part of the end of Mists is that most of it is Chris Metzen talking to himself. Wrath is still my favorite, though that may just be because I came into the WarCraft universe with the release of WarCraft III.
I honestly agree with your list, Nobbel. To be blunt, BfA should have been about Azshara and the South Seas, with Zandalar and Kul Tiras as faction capitals, with no pointless faction war to tear the WoW playerbase apart. They could still have worked in the allied races, but in a way that would have satisfied the Alliance players too, meaning actual Alliance high elves rather than the void elves they made up purely as an attempt at a compromise. The Horde got the nightborne, so Blizz could have given the Alliance too something they actually wanted. Rather than the failed Azerite gear, they could have given us pirate ship garrisons to travel between islands. The following expansion would have been about N'zoth, with Ny'alotha as a new continent with different Old God- themed zones. It would have been the expansion N'zoth deserved, as Deathwing, Azshara, and Xavius' mastermind. Shadowlands should not even have been an expansion, just a quest where we briefly visit it, just like how death knights did in Wrath. Heck, it should have been the story they teased for Sylvanas in Legion, in which she had to choose between her people and her soul.
I personally think Cata's ending made sense. Especially now that Dragonflight has "revealed" more. The Aspects were charged with defending Azeroth by Tyr's request. Many of the keepers disagreed, but ultimately it was allowed and the aspects were created. If the ultimate goal was to protect Azeroth, but only Tyr truly believed in them, well, after Tyr's death, nobody else would be there to vouch for the dragons. However, they were still charged with protecting Azeroth. Little did they know, that some of them had become the danger to Azeroth themselves, those being, Neltharion, Malygos, and Nozdormu. So I always assumed that the remaining keepers (Mainly Odyn) had already decided to be rid of the aspects once Tyr's request was considered fulfilled, and Odyn had sufficient proof (Because he's a raging narc) that the idea of the aspects was a bad idea. In Wrath, we took care of Malygos as he was posing a threat to the world. In Cata, we put an end to Murozond's life and therefore dealt with Nozdormu's threat. And then we put down Neltharion at the end of Cata, and thus the threats to the world were quelled in the keepers eyes. Because surely the keepers prisons for the old gods would absolutely never fail, right? So, the Titans and keepers recalled the aspects powers. Which would also be why we need to bring Tyr back to regain the aspects powers, and why the oathstones couldn't be restored by the dragons themselves. Their oaths were broken. The aspectral powers were a two way agreement between the dragons and the titans/keepers. With no keepers to back them up, why would they continue to have their powers?
@@Dantarn Except they never once mentioned the void lords. The only time the void was mentioned was during Bastion and the Kyrians dismissed it as nothing.
The MOP- ending: They did hold the trial out of many reasons. On the one hand, they just wanted to avoid another big fight between alliance and horde. After all, neither Varian nor Thrall wanted to back down from their claim to kill Garrosh. So a trial, held by a neutral party, was the compromise. On the other hand you had (and have) a lot of people, both players and npcs, who supported Garrosh and his actions. So just killing him without trial but with the help of the alliance could have caused endless unrest among the faction of the horde. Instead they wanted to show everyone the worst of his crimes and that he only had his own interests in mind. To defeat the idea of him. It backfired, but there were reasons to do the trial outside of the next expansion.
I sort of agree with you on the "there must always be a lich king" line. Except I think they missed the perfect time to wrap up that line with Legion. Bolvar should have used the scourge as the tip of the spear to invade Argus! How poetic it would have been to turn the legions own weapon against them to throw the full might of the scourge king menithil mentioned to clear the way for the living to make a foothold and by the end of the invasion the might of the scourge is expended and Bolvar no longer needs to hold them in check. It would have been so bad ass, I had it all planned out in my head. We would have seen heads of undead moving to key locations ignoring all living things as they marched to their unknown purpose for Tirion to lead us back to the Frozen throne and find that Bolvar has awakened and he's planning to lead the charge against the legion and we get a kick ass cinematic with death knights leading scourge forces through a bunch of portals demons vs zombies.
When it comes to the Cataclysm ending: I agree, that defeating Deathwing was not their big purpose, INSTEAD they had to give up their powers (a big part of it) in order to defeat him. They used up their gift of the Titans, just like the nightelfs gave up their immortality. They know, that they no longer have the might, to protect Azeroth. So they crown the mortals as the new defenders of this now shattered world. After all, that is what the mortal races, or at least some of them, have been doing for some time now. Just like them. Furthermore a lot of the worlds problems - everything Deathwing and his flight influenced, Malygos and his Nexus war, the corruption of the emerald nightmare within the waking world and so much more - are caused by the aspects or are the result of their failure. 2 dragon aspects down, 1 flight almost eradicated and another cut down so much, that only around now in the current expansion, they start to slowly rebuild.... it is understandable, that they want to share their burden.
Still mad that the Lich King required the entire world's strongest champions to band together and form an army to take him down, yet goth princess was able to singlehandedly walk into icecrown citadel and basically manhandle the Lich King into submission alone. Let's not forget the retconned "there must always be a Lich King" aspect that was cast aside like trash.
As far as "There must always be a Lich King" goes, yes. There was likely no member of the Scourge left who could stand against us after we defeated the Lich King (And only through divine intervention. Arthas honestly had us dead to rights). But our group can only be so many places at once. And the Scourge, even beaten back, was vast and spread out across large chunks of two continents. From the moment Bolvar put the Helm of Domination on, it was clear it was not doing anything good to the man. The best he could do, at least from what we saw in Catacylsm (And I'm ignoring anything Shadowlands here and basing this all on what we see basically up through Legion), was put the weakest of the Scourge into passive mode and let the Argents, Ebon Blade and other factions start Scourge cleanup. We saw in expansions to come that stronger members of the Scourge were able to start building their own armies and were almost assuredly not on Bolvar's payroll. Bolvar or anyone else using the Helm to actively dump all the scattered Scourge into a pit to be disposed of probably would have just accelerated the corruption we saw some signs of in him during Legion.
i 100% agree with Nobbel on where BFA should have ended, the whole Azshara story line and Nzoth really felt like it came out of no where- it honestly could have been done in shadowlands somehow and probably would have made shadowlands much better.
As for alextrasza saying they have completed their purpose, I've always interpreted it as since they have expended their power, they can no longer fulfill their purpose and so hands it over to the mortals - therefore completing their purpose.
Legion was my all-time fav expansion. I didn't think they could beat WotLK but they did. Legion was the culmination, the build-up of nearly everything lore-wise and character-wise since Warcraft III: and Legion is where WoW should have ENDED. And then? They should have done Warcraft 4 - maybe not exactly an RTS but if you look at WC3 and see what they pulled out of the game and made expansions from. . . .and then they could have created WoW 2 with an improved, innovative, and superior engine. I mean, that's just my take on it all. I don't even play anymore. lol. But I will forever love the lore.
In the same vein of, “there must always be a lich king” there must always be order in the universe. A balance, so to say, and Sargeras is part of that. In his pursuit to undo or, in his mind, protect the order of the Titans he also provides balance to the universe. The Titans want to order creation, and save us all from the void. Sargeras wants to divide the universe and give the old gods of the void nothing worth conquering. Something ultimately controlled, finite and definitive. As opposed to the boundless and mostly undefinable future the Titans would have us pursue. And something else about the jailer and all that. 😂🙏🏽
Just want to say, if you say you played since classic, it doesnt really mean original games anymore, it means the "classic" version of WoW people play now. Its best to refer to the original days as vanilla.
The sargerite keystone is a key to all legion worlds, or so it was explained in game. I think they did a poor job of explaining that Illidan likely attuned the keystone to Azeroth and that's how he opened it, as it's not a legion world. But it was never explained in game so.
you can see it over and over most cases endings how games become even though there is "grey" areas, they default to black and white, most cases Alliance are good, and horde tend to be evil or push for evil things.
To this day I still do not understand why at the beginning of warlords why they just didn't kill guldan instead of freeing him from the spot powering the portal just kill him and all of this could have been avoided I feel like that's a major oversight/plothole
The probability of "There being a different story behind Shadowlands" is realistic, considering that we had a spoil from the book that showed what the REAL Jailor looked like, and he was nothing like Dr. Manhattan-Wanebee, he looked more like Primus, which reflected the TRAILER of Shadowlands. Not to mention the whole "realms of death are fighting one another" being an absolute lie.
the whole point of the Mists ending is actually quite Political. cos' you see if the Horde or the Alliance carried out the creed or Punishment, one side would feel like they were denied something. However if a Third Nation like Pandaria that was most recently ravaged by the Villain, and holds no loyalty to either side carries out the thing. Neither side can use it as an excuse to spark more fires.
In my opinion they should've put the nzoth part before the sylvanas one. Storywise you could have put it like "OK, now that we got the bigger problem done with the old kraken, we can deal with little miss edgy and her simp friend", do one more raid the size of TotC(WOTLK 3.2) with some of Sylvanas' servants & Nathanos as end boss and the Mak'gora as the ending cinematic and do the perfect transition into Shadowlands. It sounds good, at least to me... but I guess, we'll never know. 🤷🏻♂️😄
Battle for Azeroth... Look, as far as BfA goes, as far as I'm concerned, the final patch was a mini-expansion. Battle for Azeroth, or at least every thematic and faction war story thread they were trying to tell from the War of Thorns onward culminated at Siege of Orgrimmar 2: Electric Boogaloo. N'zoth was essentially it's own short, unsatisfying expansion that we thankfully weren't charged a box price for.
The Shadowlands cinematic was actually pretty good. It's always been clear from day 1 that the Jailer was trying to force everything under one banner to fight the Void Lords but the ending spelled it out for those that didn't pick up on that which is nice.
@Nobbel87 One (big?) reason for "There must always be a lichking" was Deathknights. Without a Lichking there couldn't be new ones. So erasing the new implemented prestige-class
In regards to the WotLK ending, my interpretation is that as long as beings are dying, there will always be the potential for an undead scourge. It takes a Lich King to reel them in to keep them from aimlessly wreaking havoc on the world. Does that makes sense, or does the scourge ONLY exist because the Lich King spawns them from corpses?
just started watching the video...can't wait for the shadowlands ranking.... edit 1 ) WOTLK cinematic blown me away....again.... edit 2 )i rather had a new lich king story with sylvanas as lk instead of shadowlands...
I loved Legion for sure, but I thought the ending was so weirdly rushed. I know that Argus was originally meant to be an expansion that they decided to use as the end of the Legion expansion, but the transition from defeating the World Soul of Argus (which was an amazing fight btw) then literally Sargeras is just... done. Like literally he is (was) the biggest bad in all of warcraft and he is just defeated like that? No build up, no at least trying to fight him ourselves, just the Titans capture him and thats it.
Why is nobody talking about the sword of sergeras being so tiny in game? Sure it’s big, but in the cinematic the sword should be visible from half way across the world by how big it is. And the physics are so whacky too. Such an object with that amount of mass entering the atmosphere and hitting the ground at that speed would be worse than the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs?
![The Story of Guardians of the Dream - Part 1 [Warcraft Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JB6XueWbjEU/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Guardians of the Dream - Part 1 [Warcraft Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of The Paladin Order Hall Campaign [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6ESWk22K3Kc/mqdefault.jpg)
Seeing Vol'jin always gives me goosebumps. Such a bummer they did him dirty.
100%!!!
On the one hand they did him dirty, on the other he died before he was part of any of the awful BFA/SL stories, so it's not all bad. (Yes I know he was a minor part in that whole Bwonsamdi thing but I chosse to ignore it.)
@@thejulinks Lol totally!
Sylvanas best and only warchief, Vol'jins just a troll.
@@Treyvon.Simp. I loved sylvanas as the dark lady, leader of the Forsaken.
Wow story team absolutely BUTCHERED her
Legion definitely had one of the better endings. Felt like an end to an era. While I have issues with Legion, it certainly had some good moments and seeing Sargeras for the first time + Velen's sigh? Pure chills.
Problem with the Legionending is that it would spell a doom over the planet that would begin what we would call an atomic winter and all life that didn't perish after Sargeras stabing the planet would face a suffecating death
@@theblackgoatofthewoods I would not add that kind of realism to Warcraft for your own sanity. It's a fantasy for a reason.
@@Skollshorties But it would make BFA more dire, like a race against time for the survivers
Let's face it, all of Legion was just one massive Good Ending. It truly felt like a love letter to what made Warcraft what it is.
And hearing Velen's relieved little sigh made me tear up a bit, not gonna lie
Yeah, that sigh said so very much. I can't imagine being hunted for as long as they were and the burdens Velen carried trying to do his best for his people.
That’s the sigh of someone who’s fear and anxiety was finally put to rest.
As the titans said “The Burning Crusade is over”.
After thousands of years, and countless deaths, the Draenai do not have to run anymore.
For me legion was the ending of wow, now it's just being milked. I don't understand what ppl see in dragonflight it's so terrible 😢
@MikeEsportSweden I'm enjoying Dragonflight, but I think almost anything would have felt like an improvement after Shadowlands lol
@@MikeEsportSweden Because dragonflight is actually good both in terms of storytelling and gameplay 💀
Sure, it's not perfect, but it's really fine piece of entertainment worth of my time.
Vanilla is like a lot of world building. You have no big overall bad but lots of smaller big bads that are either a bit leftover or have some connection to WC. Like the Old Gods, the Black Dragons, KT and so on. It was kinda nice to just read some quests in Classic and see most of these threats being built up by questing over some zones. Like the whole Hakkar egg quest that leads to ZG, the C'Thun bugs that were all over Kalimdor, the remnant Scourge in the north of EK for the Naxx build up. Very nice IMO.
Basically the player characters were adventurers going around being introduced to the world and performing mercenary work or general aiding in other's affairs that they required a helping hand in performing. But afterwards the player characters became messiahs.
@@AlexanderKuznetsovAKASergei Well tbf...like yes it kinda checks out, we go kill Rag with 40 people which is a decent army because someone told me there's shiny loot to have. IMO though, by the point we kill C'Thun and then KT I think we're not just "adventurers" anymore. We're not champions yet but definitely heroes. Killing these guys is surely beyond just being a mercenary I would say.
@@Random25145 Ye i'd figure they'd be heroes on par with footmen units in Warcraft 3 partaking in memorable battles so i assume they'd be designated as heroes as well. Figure WotLK is when "champion" becomes a moniker for the player characters giving them a specific identity within the story considering the raid against the Lich King's Ice Crown Citadel was designed in lore to have the peeps coming after em to be prepared for it so as to minimalize casualties as opposed to throwing random waves of armies at em which would result in the inconvenience of fighting your resurrected brethren, and the Lich King planning to turn said raid party into his servants in undeath would have further cemented the player characters as set further apart from the average mercenary. Thinking back to Tyrion (or was it Terenas's ghost?) resurrecting the fallen player characters, wonder why a similar thing couldn't be done with the corpses of the many past paladins and priests in Light's Hope Chapel when it was being attacked instead of waiting for the undead to get their hands on them. Why not just beat them to it. Guess it's against the religious beliefs of the Light?
It’s also very in line with how a lot of MMORPGs used to be like when it came out, having story yes but not a huge focus on a single large narrative that would then be concluded
I don't know about you but C'Thun is a big fucking bad and his an old God 😂😂😂😂
I hated what they did to sylvanas. I loved when she yelled “for the horde” as if for once she finally cared about more than the forsaken and herself. It felt shitty that that warcry was a lie and meant nothing
God, yeah. There was even an interview around that time where a dev said that Sylvanas was "just trying to defend her people," and like... tell me, what was it? Did you change your mind halfway through, or did you outright lie for cheap shock value?
I think the very moment BFA jumped the shark is the sequence of us finding out how this war between the Alliance and Horde started, up to the burning of Teldrassil.
Many players speculated who did it, because Sylvanas, while the obvious choice, would have been seen as too obvious.
Horde being agressors once again, Sylvanas becoming Garrosh 2.0... surely Blizzard wouldn't do something that stupid?
And yet, they did. The Saurfang storyline carried the expansion at least, but when it ended with his death the whole expansion came crashing down as they crammed in N'Zoth.
I was naive I tried to believe they had a plan that sylvanas did this for a reason to really free as that she didn't trusted the jailer that she had a plan... and that she was right.. oh boy was I wrong..
its just such a scizophrenic story
The music from Wrath ending cinematic still gives me the chills!
Honestly the ending of one expansion shouldn't be judged based on what subsequent expansions did with its premise imo. Mists of Pandaria had a fantastic ending. Vol'jin becoming warchief paid off his whole arc, and Varian showing might as well as wisdom paid off his arc that's been going on since Wrath of the Lich King. Later expansions barely using Vol'jin or having the Horde go through the exact same war crimes story don't make Mists of Pandaria's ending any worse on its own merits.
I love when Nobbel does these kinds of videos. While i do enjoy the lore stuff, i like the change of pace where he just sits down and ranks things or talks about stuff like this.
I still can't believe they ended an expansion about the faction conflict with defeating N'zoth, the old god known for being a master manipulator... and said old god known for being a master manipulator had NOTHING to do with the faction war itself, it was actually this other guy, but no, that guy had an even bigger baddie we've never heard of behind him. What a damn waste.
IMO for Cata, their great purpose was fulfilled in the sense of safe guarding the world, until the people of Azeroth could do so themselves. The fact they could take down a dragon aspect, an empowered one at that, proved that they can now take care of themselves.
Well, TBF we also killed malygos before too
HOLY SHIT 18:32 THE ERROR SOUND, THAT'S THE EXACT VIDEO I USED TO PLAY ON REPEAT BACK WHEN THIS CINEMATIC JUST CAME OUT. Nobbel you have no idea the amount of nostalgia you just pumped through my veins.
This became available just as I was about to go to sleep, and honestly, I’ve just watched it start to finish. Superb work. I was genuinely in tears laughing at how dryly you said, ‘yoink out a ukelele and make an apology video for the rest of her life.’
Absolutely golden.
Love that you’re a fellow MoP fan, and Illidan’s arc in Legion is just 👌🏻
Great vid!
I like that ppl shit less on panda land now than what they did during the xpack, I loved it then and now
@@AliciaOnlineGameplayMoP is brilliant, always loved it. And the soundtrack? Get outta here - so good.
I don't think Blizz put much thought into Warlords of Draenor. Like okay, Garrosh convinces the orcs to not drink demon blood. Cool cool cool. But the orcs immediately turn into murderous genocide monsters anyways. All that does is confirm that orcs are inherently, intrinsically evil monsters. Probably not what Blizzard intended.
Blizzard seems kinda dead set on convincing everyone the races of the horde are quite the evil monsters, garrosh, the iron horde, sylvanas, the blood elf dude, I mean shit the only chill ones are Tauren, troll and vulpera, even the nightborn are kinda whack yk 💀
No I think THAT was the point
15:21 Perhaps one good reason for putting Garrosh on trial was that he's still alive. Both Arthas and Deathwing fought to the death but Garrosh was "only" knocked down and depowered.
You see Sargeras before Antorus, during the Demon Hunters order hall campaign. He's in a big vortex in space using the burning crusade Kil'jaeden model which is really weird and low quality for something done during Legion, but it was pretty cool and I'm 90% sure it's the biggest NPC in the game... maybe I'm misremembering and he wasn't bigger than heroic Rag or Al'Aqir idk
Wait... You mean when you basically go out on the balcony and /rasp at him, denying his offer to join the Burning Legion? I'm pretty sure that was Kil'jaeden. He's used projections where he's huge before.
Like when confronting Illidan just after he took the Black Temple in W3 - despite being shown to be "only" roughly twice or thrice his height both before and after.
I still love the idea that Zovaal is not actually the Jailer, but it is the Primus who is the real Jailer and that Zovaal was dominated by him the entire time. The Primus was the one who was an expert tactician gained by bargaining with the infinite dragonflight, The Primus was the one who created the domination magic, and we dont see the Primus in the ending cinematic, just his shadow.
We go back to Azeroth periodically in Dragonflight, but the scourge is not running wild, which they should be doing since Sylvanas destroyed the helm that controlled them and Bolvar has left the throne. How do you think Blizzard is going to reconcile this?
It’s simple…. They won’t
I don't entirely hate them retiring the role of the lich king in such a way they did but atleast show us more of a reason why a untamed Scourge is bad.
What if I told you... they don't even know that happened?
Do you really think it still matters...*gestures around us* in this place?
You think that's a cohesive plot, you're playing now?
...
*Amused humpf*
I feel like BFA's and Shadowland's endings are SUPPOSED to all drive home the next "Legion" level threat that makes for a great story.
But to end an expansion "Early", only to sprinkle in a new problem that wont pay off for 10 years is.... something that should be done in a RTS that can ignore the timeline problem.
WC4 could be Black Empire vs Titans Lore. How filthy are the Titan's hands?
Cosmic Conflicts across space and time, with their Date locked in according to the "True Timeline".
Does Life and Death have a pact? Void attacked Death. Shadow and Order fought.
How did the Black Empire start? What was life on Azeroth like BEFORE even the Black Empire? Could even do Old Gods vs each other.
The sheer potential of stories that can build the 'Final Conflict' without messing with the Expansion hook is huge.
An RTS with 6 races could yield so many DLCs that I'm surprised Activision/Bobby didn't salivate at the potential profits.
Legion's ending and finally seeing Sargeras ingame was such an event for me. I've been waiting for that for the better part of my life (since I was 8). All my childhood, teenage years, and adulthood up to that point. It was AWESOME. It was the event of the decade for me. Great ending to a great expansion. I still feel like we were robbed of fighting him but I just know we'll see him again.
i think it makes sense not to fight him. He could one shot a planet with his sword so i find trapping him through a loophole to be much more satisfying. Fighting a world soul is also pretty cool!
I appreciate the time and effort you put into this video. It inspired me to pick up where i left off in classic wow LK over a year ago. Back at it for awhile.
„arthas, my son“ theme never fails to get me in my feels.
can somewhat relate to his lore. (yea i’m edgy like that)
nah fr tho i was like 12 when wotlk came out and had been playing since classic.
reviewing arthas lore playing warcraft etc when i was older fucked hard.
I remember when Belular said in a video BFA cannot possibly be worse than Legion since Legion would be sort of a base line for it... Well
To me the real ending of BfA was the CGI one before the gates of Ogrimmar, the final resolution of the entire war. N’Zoth was really only just a subplot of the final patch.
This video is amazing and seeing arthas’ cut scene makes me cry to this day he was my favorite character in wc3 and seeing his final moments like that was beautiful
I always took the end of Cata as the aspects fulfilling their purpose of safeguarding Azeroth until more beings could rise up to defend her, not killing deathwing.
I think when it comes to Garrosh at the end of MOP, the reason why the Pandaran's can claim he did the worst to them is that their land pretty much was peaceful, and would'a stayed that way, if the Horde hadn't shown up. Even if the Alliance had just crashed their ships into the island, Anduin could'a kept things chill, but throw the Horde into the mix and then you had the violence that brought out the Sha.
Meanwhile we all knew Garrosh was crazy, vindictive, murderous, etc and while bombing Theramore was a WTF moment, it wasn't exactly out of character for him, IMO. Overall, Garrosh did more to 'screw up' Pandaria than he did anywhere else.
ETA: I think when it comes to WoD, I agree that the Saurfang/Sylvanas fight should have been the end. What they instead put at the end was better off, at most, one of those side story endings/patch endings. It's like they screwed up the order of how it was supposed to go.
Watching this from start to finish just makes me miss burning crusade, wrath and even cata time frames for the game of WOW itself. Guilds who were family and who strove to conquer what was put in front of us together.
Now you conquer Discord server cliques :)
I agree with most of this, personally would've put wrath in S below Legion and mists in A. Its always so frustrating to see how dirty they did my boy Vol'Jin
I love you Nobbel!
Bolvar couldnt send the scourge into a pit because he couldnt control them all at first and then he was too far gone yo relinquish the power.
44:00 "Yank out a Ukulele and play an apology for the rest of the Horde"
Holy shit I wasnt ready for that line
Damnn you!! I spilled my drink when you said Sylvanas took out an ukulele. Jesus, that was unexpectedly funny. Cheers!
Can you imagine Blizzcon where they just announce the next expansion, but first say : "Shadowlands never happened!"
It is a bit of unfair imo to donwgrade the WotLK ending because of what they did in Shadowlands :P
Anyway I agree almost entirely with your takes on the cinematic and lore. I hope they didn't just remove Murozond from the scene because Chromie is just better than anyone. That tragic ending gave a lot of character to Nozdormu and seeing what would actually make him turn into it can be awesome (I still hope that it's not him just going mad but recognizing that he HAS to do it in order to let us defeat him and, by doing so, preserve a timeline where we have a chance ala Dr. Strange).
19:38 "But know this" in the middle of the cutscene made me cackle so hard
I don't know why Durotan couldn't have done the Draenor is free scream tbh?
Both Yrel and Durotan lost siblings to the Iron Horde...Jesus H Christ
One thing to note about Naxxramas in vanilla that is often overlooked due to how Warcraft as a franchise has evolved, Naxxramas was the first raid that had you fighting lore characters from the RTS games (though faction leaders were killable, killing them in-game was non-canon and not intended progression), specifically Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad. Prior to that characters from the RTS games only appeared as quest givers. All the raids prior the bosses and their stories were created for WoW, so it was kind of special in the context of 2006.
These days seeing lore characters is par for the course, especially since Cata, mostly since the story continues in WoW now, back then that wasn't the case and there was an expectation that if one of the characters from the RTS games appeared in WoW they _had_ to be raid boss tier. That's why in Wrath when Anub'arak was made the boss of a 5-man there was massive outrage up until Blizzard added him as a boss in ToC.
Shadowlands was good in terms of anything not having to do with the Jailer and Sylvanas like that quest where you go into Uther's memeories and relive him becoming a paladin was awesome and so much fun to see played in game. The story of the different zones of the shadowlands was awesome and all the side stories not having to do with the Jailer Or Sylvanas were so fun, meeting up with Vol'Jin, The story with Bwomzamdi i loved all that! but i do agree the story of the Jailer and Sylvanas was tarnished and now Sylvanas is tainted and she is my favorite character and still is regardless of everything that happened and I wish she could come back but now she can't because everyone hates her :( Legion is my favorite ending too and favorite expansion too
P.S Night Warrior story was also tarnished
And how Bolvar was wasted and reduced to a pinbag of Sylvanas and simping for his daughter.
Legion was a combination of classic, tbc and lich king - hence why basically everyone loves it.
nah they had the best setup with Aferlives-Bastion for Uther and Devos and then they wasted their potential. Only Denathrius was cool in SL
Just want to shout out that Magni voice of yours is spot on, Nobbel!
#1 You pretty much hit my issue with the Wrath ending, especially when you consider what happened to places like felwood and Western Plaguelands in Cataclysm. Just seemed like we stuck the helmet on his head for nothing to happen, good or bad.
#2 Much as I love MoP, fact that the trial doesn't appear in game and is barely mentioned is the biggest middle finger to the player lorewise from blizzard (that b.s. about the twisting nether being the same in all timelines is stupid close though). Such an important moment for a game, that takes place entirely outside of it.
#3 The one thing that weirds me out about the ending of legion you can clearly see where Sargeras' hand touches the planet. Surely, that would of caused just as much damage as the sword. A fel-corrupted titan's hand, planted on the planet and nothing? Not even a tidal wave? A huge crater?! Nothing?! And why did he spend so much time pillar humping the planet? Was he just monologuing the entire time?
#4 Shadowlands...
The thing about the "there must always be a lich king" felt fine to me back then and now due to a sort of "geanie out of the bottle" situation. Like by this point the scourge has been and continues to ramp under the lich king (and given direction for said "ramping"), but take him away and all that power spills out everywhere unchecked. Like (and this is a bad example) shake up a can of coke, the tab is keeping it in check, no tab and the coke shoots everywhere. Coupled with how the scourge operates, and almost seems to find leaders when one is vacant rather than having a power struggle like the works, the ending makes sense to me but I understand peoples dislike of it.
There must always be a Lich King except for now when there isn't one.
Nobble.
In a short story Blizzard added that the Aspects purpose was to Prevent the Hour of Twilight.
Not specifically death wing.
But the return of of the Old Gods.
Lmao Anduin looks like a sims 2 character during the mists cutscene
He's so goofy
OMG, First MatPat and now Nobbel making a Colleen Balinger reference with the ukulele apology! ^_^ As much as the internet is cursed, it is also blessed.
To me, BFA's ending is Saurfang's ending, and it was perfect
I agree, BFA should've ended there. Then the next expac hunting Sylvanas and ending things there. No Shadowlands at all. But I think part of the problem is that BFA was affected by Metzen leaving at the end of Legion, the assorted quiet layoffs to head off the SA case then the wild fires followed by the pandemic for SL.
I stopped playing bfa after that so for me that was the ending 💀 glad I skipped out on the nzoth stuff, grinding that damn azurite burned me out at the right moment, that and the SA and harrassment shit also made me skip shadowlands so double win for me I guess 😂
I really liked bfa story wise tho up until nzoth and ashara stuff, they could have kept the old god story line with knifu in bfa and made a whole xpack for nzoth instead
@@AliciaOnlineGameplay For some reason I had no problem with the AP grind in Legion and BFA. It was in SL that it became just too much.
I absolutely agree that we should have had a N'zoth xpac instead of SL. In fact, they should never have touched the realm of death and taken away that mystique.
They had plenty of setup for Sylvanas's bullshit to be his release. Would have made far more sense.
Every time I see Vol’jin becoming new war chief I almost tear up. Stop it! 😂
the sword, I believe, will play a larger role in the future in that, when Sergaras implanted his sword into Silithus, it was because, after so many millennia searching for the Sleeping Titan, he had finally found it, and after being snatched away from it, implanted his sword as a kind of tracker to find it again.. especially after knowing that the Sargerite Keystone can bring him back to her..
.. and his yelling "NO!!" was out of despair as it was being snatched from his grasp..
so yeah, his sword will act as his anchorpoint back to Azeroth..
Master of Lore, heed my summoning!
*nobbel uploads*
It worked!
Good lord Vol’Jin deserved better I really liked the low of kings story line but shadow lands made it forgettable because the one cool thing about shadowlands is overshadowed by sylvanas garbage
Reading the books, there were the few expansions that in-between them filled in those gaps. War Crimes and Before the Storm, more specifically, comes to mind. If haven't read those (like a few of my friends), you were like WTF is going on? It wasn't bad, but having story (not necessarily lore) done like that makes for a confusing story. Same goes for only having story after needing to do Mythic raids to get it. I am just glad that there are videos to pick up on those pieces.
Nobbel, have you ever thought abput covering the whole controversial topic of "it's WARcraft!" Where a lot of people had been complaining how devs have watered down the action and storytelling since the end of BFA to a disney movie degrees of good vs bad?
I love how you throw casual shade in between certain clips. The attitude is amusing lmao.
I do hope Legion's ending will pay off soon, with Iridikron hinting at the Titans coming back.
I haven't played BFA, only having played on a private server and even that was back when i was 7 to 10 years old, instead opting to follow along with the lore via cinematics and lore vids. And i genuinely thought that that cinematic with almost Siege of Ogrimmar 2.0 was the actual ending to BFA.
With sylvanus, I guess you could justify her initial words by assuming she is talking about the living and the dead (undead, forsaken, jailors death army, etc.). By not being united in death, azeroth continues to suffer. Something along those lines.
For the end of cataclysm, i don't think Ale refer specific to dethawing, but the fact that they protected the planet. It was a coincidence that Cataclysm was made by Deathwing...and using the soul stone, the powers disappear and it had nothing to do with the their scope. It was just un unespected event that end up with them having to give their powers to save the world, not to defeat deathwing
Love this type of content!
35:46 you can explain this QUITE easily away. In order to open a gateway or any kind of portal in WOW (and any other story ever that uses this device) you HAVE TO KNOW WHERE you wanna go or be from that place, in order to be able to get there via a portal. Sargaeras didn’t (and still doesn’t for that matter) know WHERE the planet of Azeroth is inside the WOW universe, whereas Illidan knew. Hence why he couldn’t open a portal
But Sargeras did, at the very least by the time he managed to get his avatar on the planet/infect Medivh
@@Nobbel87 did he though? Wasn’t Medivh contacted by Guldan, and then Medivh just summoned Sarg without Sarg actually being actively involved in that? I don’t quite remember (embarrassed). Plus, at that point maybe he didn’t have the keystone yet.
@@iriswaldenburger2315 Sargerite keystone was way at the beginning.
Soul/Medivh bit = Demons summon his avatar onto the world - Avatar infects Aegwynn - From Aegwynn into Medivh - Does the dark portal/Horde bit.
So that's a clear moment in which Sargeras was on azeroth, but he's been near her before, going back all the way to War of the Ancients portal
@@Nobbel87 hah I forgot about that :) shame the writers apparently did as well
35:00 The keystone is a gateway to Legion's conquered planets.
He never conquered Azeroth so he couldn't link it to it.
The keystone was use from Azeroth so it could open a gateway to Argus, but not the other way around.
Legion : Legendary system ? This is what i loved the most, cause i don't raid, i could get Legendary drop.
I think my favorite part of the end of Mists is that most of it is Chris Metzen talking to himself. Wrath is still my favorite, though that may just be because I came into the WarCraft universe with the release of WarCraft III.
The music from Arthas cinematic still brings a tear to my eye.....
I honestly agree with your list, Nobbel.
To be blunt, BfA should have been about Azshara and the South Seas, with Zandalar and Kul Tiras as faction capitals, with no pointless faction war to tear the WoW playerbase apart. They could still have worked in the allied races, but in a way that would have satisfied the Alliance players too, meaning actual Alliance high elves rather than the void elves they made up purely as an attempt at a compromise. The Horde got the nightborne, so Blizz could have given the Alliance too something they actually wanted. Rather than the failed Azerite gear, they could have given us pirate ship garrisons to travel between islands.
The following expansion would have been about N'zoth, with Ny'alotha as a new continent with different Old God- themed zones. It would have been the expansion N'zoth deserved, as Deathwing, Azshara, and Xavius' mastermind.
Shadowlands should not even have been an expansion, just a quest where we briefly visit it, just like how death knights did in Wrath. Heck, it should have been the story they teased for Sylvanas in Legion, in which she had to choose between her people and her soul.
N'zoth is kind of like the twilight dragon in wotlk.
Is more like a bonus raid.
while the Reckoning is the end for the Battle of Sylvanas.
I personally think Cata's ending made sense. Especially now that Dragonflight has "revealed" more.
The Aspects were charged with defending Azeroth by Tyr's request. Many of the keepers disagreed, but ultimately it was allowed and the aspects were created. If the ultimate goal was to protect Azeroth, but only Tyr truly believed in them, well, after Tyr's death, nobody else would be there to vouch for the dragons. However, they were still charged with protecting Azeroth. Little did they know, that some of them had become the danger to Azeroth themselves, those being, Neltharion, Malygos, and Nozdormu. So I always assumed that the remaining keepers (Mainly Odyn) had already decided to be rid of the aspects once Tyr's request was considered fulfilled, and Odyn had sufficient proof (Because he's a raging narc) that the idea of the aspects was a bad idea.
In Wrath, we took care of Malygos as he was posing a threat to the world.
In Cata, we put an end to Murozond's life and therefore dealt with Nozdormu's threat.
And then we put down Neltharion at the end of Cata, and thus the threats to the world were quelled in the keepers eyes. Because surely the keepers prisons for the old gods would absolutely never fail, right? So, the Titans and keepers recalled the aspects powers. Which would also be why we need to bring Tyr back to regain the aspects powers, and why the oathstones couldn't be restored by the dragons themselves. Their oaths were broken. The aspectral powers were a two way agreement between the dragons and the titans/keepers. With no keepers to back them up, why would they continue to have their powers?
Shadowlands Ending was best, why? Because to this day no one understands it.
Shadowlands Ending was best because... well, it ended!
The Jailor wanted to imprison everyone under one banner to fight the Void Lords and no one else was having it
@@Dantarn Except they never once mentioned the void lords. The only time the void was mentioned was during Bastion and the Kyrians dismissed it as nothing.
The MOP- ending: They did hold the trial out of many reasons. On the one hand, they just wanted to avoid another big fight between alliance and horde. After all, neither Varian nor Thrall wanted to back down from their claim to kill Garrosh. So a trial, held by a neutral party, was the compromise. On the other hand you had (and have) a lot of people, both players and npcs, who supported Garrosh and his actions. So just killing him without trial but with the help of the alliance could have caused endless unrest among the faction of the horde. Instead they wanted to show everyone the worst of his crimes and that he only had his own interests in mind. To defeat the idea of him.
It backfired, but there were reasons to do the trial outside of the next expansion.
I sort of agree with you on the "there must always be a lich king" line. Except I think they missed the perfect time to wrap up that line with Legion. Bolvar should have used the scourge as the tip of the spear to invade Argus!
How poetic it would have been to turn the legions own weapon against them to throw the full might of the scourge king menithil mentioned to clear the way for the living to make a foothold and by the end of the invasion the might of the scourge is expended and Bolvar no longer needs to hold them in check. It would have been so bad ass, I had it all planned out in my head. We would have seen heads of undead moving to key locations ignoring all living things as they marched to their unknown purpose for Tirion to lead us back to the Frozen throne and find that Bolvar has awakened and he's planning to lead the charge against the legion and we get a kick ass cinematic with death knights leading scourge forces through a bunch of portals demons vs zombies.
Wotlk - MoP - Legion. My fav expacs in that order :D Good times!
Draenor is FREEEEEEE!
WE WILL NEVER BE SLAVES! BUT WE WILL BE CONQUERORS!
When it comes to the Cataclysm ending: I agree, that defeating Deathwing was not their big purpose, INSTEAD they had to give up their powers (a big part of it) in order to defeat him. They used up their gift of the Titans, just like the nightelfs gave up their immortality. They know, that they no longer have the might, to protect Azeroth. So they crown the mortals as the new defenders of this now shattered world. After all, that is what the mortal races, or at least some of them, have been doing for some time now. Just like them.
Furthermore a lot of the worlds problems - everything Deathwing and his flight influenced, Malygos and his Nexus war, the corruption of the emerald nightmare within the waking world and so much more - are caused by the aspects or are the result of their failure.
2 dragon aspects down, 1 flight almost eradicated and another cut down so much, that only around now in the current expansion, they start to slowly rebuild.... it is understandable, that they want to share their burden.
I think the only times when the playerbase is begging Blizzard to retcon something are The Defeat of N'zoth and the entire expansion of Shadowlands
I swear Michael McConnohie voices so many big characters at this point it's like he's arguing with himself 😂
Laughing so much at "sylvanas would whip out her ukulele and issue an apology video" plsssss
Still mad that the Lich King required the entire world's strongest champions to band together and form an army to take him down, yet goth princess was able to singlehandedly walk into icecrown citadel and basically manhandle the Lich King into submission alone. Let's not forget the retconned "there must always be a Lich King" aspect that was cast aside like trash.
These last expansions are trying to recreate nostalgia
Legion=BC
BFA=Vanilla
Shadowlands=Wolk
Dragonflight=Cataclysm
As far as "There must always be a Lich King" goes, yes. There was likely no member of the Scourge left who could stand against us after we defeated the Lich King (And only through divine intervention. Arthas honestly had us dead to rights). But our group can only be so many places at once. And the Scourge, even beaten back, was vast and spread out across large chunks of two continents.
From the moment Bolvar put the Helm of Domination on, it was clear it was not doing anything good to the man. The best he could do, at least from what we saw in Catacylsm (And I'm ignoring anything Shadowlands here and basing this all on what we see basically up through Legion), was put the weakest of the Scourge into passive mode and let the Argents, Ebon Blade and other factions start Scourge cleanup. We saw in expansions to come that stronger members of the Scourge were able to start building their own armies and were almost assuredly not on Bolvar's payroll.
Bolvar or anyone else using the Helm to actively dump all the scattered Scourge into a pit to be disposed of probably would have just accelerated the corruption we saw some signs of in him during Legion.
i 100% agree with Nobbel on where BFA should have ended, the whole Azshara story line and Nzoth really felt like it came out of no where- it honestly could have been done in shadowlands somehow and probably would have made shadowlands much better.
As for alextrasza saying they have completed their purpose, I've always interpreted it as since they have expended their power, they can no longer fulfill their purpose and so hands it over to the mortals - therefore completing their purpose.
Legion was my all-time fav expansion. I didn't think they could beat WotLK but they did. Legion was the culmination, the build-up of nearly everything lore-wise and character-wise since Warcraft III: and Legion is where WoW should have ENDED. And then? They should have done Warcraft 4 - maybe not exactly an RTS but if you look at WC3 and see what they pulled out of the game and made expansions from. . . .and then they could have created WoW 2 with an improved, innovative, and superior engine. I mean, that's just my take on it all. I don't even play anymore. lol. But I will forever love the lore.
In the same vein of, “there must always be a lich king” there must always be order in the universe. A balance, so to say, and Sargeras is part of that. In his pursuit to undo or, in his mind, protect the order of the Titans he also provides balance to the universe. The Titans want to order creation, and save us all from the void. Sargeras wants to divide the universe and give the old gods of the void nothing worth conquering. Something ultimately controlled, finite and definitive. As opposed to the boundless and mostly undefinable future the Titans would have us pursue. And something else about the jailer and all that. 😂🙏🏽
WOTLK..... only ending that matters. Just ignore anything after "No king can rule for ever..."
the Jailer was warning us about Med'An lol
Just want to say, if you say you played since classic, it doesnt really mean original games anymore, it means the "classic" version of WoW people play now. Its best to refer to the original days as vanilla.
The sargerite keystone is a key to all legion worlds, or so it was explained in game. I think they did a poor job of explaining that Illidan likely attuned the keystone to Azeroth and that's how he opened it, as it's not a legion world.
But it was never explained in game so.
you can see it over and over most cases endings how games become even though there is "grey" areas, they default to black and white, most cases Alliance are good, and horde tend to be evil or push for evil things.
To this day I still do not understand why at the beginning of warlords why they just didn't kill guldan instead of freeing him from the spot powering the portal just kill him and all of this could have been avoided I feel like that's a major oversight/plothole
All they had to do was have us try to kill him and in the process he managed to run away before we could finish the job.
@@ReikaLady or just be like "if we kill him, it might backfire" or we're not strong enough to kill him for some arbitrary reason
What a long Strange trip it's been.
I think you are overlooking the speech velen gave at the end of bc, if this was in a later expansion it would have been an amazing cutscene.
The probability of "There being a different story behind Shadowlands" is realistic, considering that we had a spoil from the book that showed what the REAL Jailor looked like, and he was nothing like Dr. Manhattan-Wanebee, he looked more like Primus, which reflected the TRAILER of Shadowlands.
Not to mention the whole "realms of death are fighting one another" being an absolute lie.
the whole point of the Mists ending is actually quite Political.
cos' you see if the Horde or the Alliance carried out the creed or Punishment, one side would feel like they were denied something.
However if a Third Nation like Pandaria that was most recently ravaged by the Villain, and holds no loyalty to either side carries out the thing.
Neither side can use it as an excuse to spark more fires.
In my opinion they should've put the nzoth part before the sylvanas one. Storywise you could have put it like "OK, now that we got the bigger problem done with the old kraken, we can deal with little miss edgy and her simp friend", do one more raid the size of TotC(WOTLK 3.2) with some of Sylvanas' servants & Nathanos as end boss and the Mak'gora as the ending cinematic and do the perfect transition into Shadowlands. It sounds good, at least to me... but I guess, we'll never know. 🤷🏻♂️😄
Battle for Azeroth... Look, as far as BfA goes, as far as I'm concerned, the final patch was a mini-expansion. Battle for Azeroth, or at least every thematic and faction war story thread they were trying to tell from the War of Thorns onward culminated at Siege of Orgrimmar 2: Electric Boogaloo. N'zoth was essentially it's own short, unsatisfying expansion that we thankfully weren't charged a box price for.
The Shadowlands cinematic was actually pretty good. It's always been clear from day 1 that the Jailer was trying to force everything under one banner to fight the Void Lords but the ending spelled it out for those that didn't pick up on that which is nice.
@Nobbel87 One (big?) reason for "There must always be a lichking" was Deathknights. Without a Lichking there couldn't be new ones. So erasing the new implemented prestige-class
In regards to the WotLK ending, my interpretation is that as long as beings are dying, there will always be the potential for an undead scourge. It takes a Lich King to reel them in to keep them from aimlessly wreaking havoc on the world. Does that makes sense, or does the scourge ONLY exist because the Lich King spawns them from corpses?
just started watching the video...can't wait for the shadowlands ranking....
edit 1 ) WOTLK cinematic blown me away....again....
edit 2 )i rather had a new lich king story with sylvanas as lk instead of shadowlands...
I loved Legion for sure, but I thought the ending was so weirdly rushed. I know that Argus was originally meant to be an expansion that they decided to use as the end of the Legion expansion, but the transition from defeating the World Soul of Argus (which was an amazing fight btw) then literally Sargeras is just... done. Like literally he is (was) the biggest bad in all of warcraft and he is just defeated like that? No build up, no at least trying to fight him ourselves, just the Titans capture him and thats it.
I thought the end cutscene for BFA was Saurfang dieing to Sylvanas as it happened after we fought N'zoth?
Why is nobody talking about the sword of sergeras being so tiny in game? Sure it’s big, but in the cinematic the sword should be visible from half way across the world by how big it is. And the physics are so whacky too. Such an object with that amount of mass entering the atmosphere and hitting the ground at that speed would be worse than the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs?