I will now proceed to metaphorically relate all of the different Nocturne endings to plumbing. Scenario: You have a single leak in a pipe in your basement. Demon Ending: You don't fix the leak. Your basement floods. Nice job, dickbutt. Freedom ending: You patch the leak. The patch will break, eventually, but it buys you some time to get a better repair done. Reason Endings: You get the pipe replaced… unfortunately, the replacement pipe has an even bigger leak in it. True Demon Ending: You look at the leaky pipe, think to yourself "fuck this", rip out your house's entire plumbing system, and start building an outhouse.
It does the being alone thing better than many horror games, because it lets you feel it on a deepy conceptual and philosophical level. Even during most of the endings you wind up being alone, despite potentially picking them to support one of your friends... Musubi: Isamu is dead, he did not have the strength left to carry on, as he mentioned in the message he left you. Furthermore with Musubi you have just condemned the entire universe (within Nocturne's timeline / amala network) to be splintered off into individual, isolated worlds governed by every individual that will exist. A place where you alone are god and can do whatever you like, without being challenged or having received any different ideas from anyone else. Everyone else you knew will be spirited away into their own world. If you created people in your own world, they would be your own creation and come entirely from your input, your thoughts, your hopes, your dreams, your experiences - Offering nothing that you wouldn't already know or desire. That is it's own kind loneliness. And it also gives on perspective how lonely it would be to be a god of creation. Imagine creating something or someone, but seeing only yourself reflected in what you have made. Knowing the answer to every question you asked another, because you knew how they would answer, as they were created in your image? You'd be thrilled at first to have a world in all your image, but brooding in your own soup eternally would turn hellish very quickly. Only a true narcist could stomache such an existence longterm. Yosuga: Chiaki is dead. You and her clashed and one had to come out on top. This is how most of your encounters will go in the future. Social Darwinism and battle for survival at the forefront of every encounter. The laws of nature dialed up to eleven. Every word uttered by a strong person is a word meant to dominate and embed their position of power, every speech held by a person of weakness is deceitful as they fear for their lives and will seek to turn the tables. The world of Yosuga is a world of paranoia and betrayal, similiar to life inside a very influental political institution such as a parliament. One moment someone is your friend, the next they will grab whatever opportunity they have to get a leg up over you. Furthermore it's implied that you would be the strongest and thus the creator of this world. The individual who can create and destroy at will. But you will have to defend this position at every opportunity from those who want your position. Sure allies will rally around you. But you will never be sure of whom you can trust. As they say: It's lonely at the top. Normal Demon Ending: The world slowly crumbles around you and dies. No life can be birthed, but what is present can be killed. The world will slowly empty itself around you, all persons and demons harvested for their kagutsuchi for the remaining who live. Eventually it would be only you left behind, would it not? You have the blessing of Lucifer. However, what does that count for when you're stranded on a dead rock, with crumbling architecture and ruins to remind you of what once was? The Freedom Ending, Shijima and True Demon Ending are the only endings where you seemingly get to team up in one way or another with someone. True Demon Ending is also debatable, because you are little more than a pawn to Lucifer. In relations with such one-sided power imbalances you feel left behind very easily. So that's two endings where you don't get to be abandoned or isolated by the outcome of your decisions. It's a great game to pull this conceptualization off.
Can we mention that not only is Dante one of the cheapest demons to recruit if you know about his coin, is already level 85 when he joins you, he can already use most of the moves he does in his boss fights, the level of his last boss fight has no random encounters because he killed or scared every demon in the area, toys with you in all his cutscenes, has all around good balanced states and he is still one of the better demons even though he never uses devil trigger. He is literally here just to flex on everyone and I love it.
Totally overrated and takes away attention from the meaning of the game. In my point of view crossovers are in general a lazytype of fanservice, which are initiated by company higher ups who don't understand the material they work with. Crossovers commonly cheapen a game's plot by breaking immersion. They also lead to story bending in weird ways because you now have to explain how two totally different franchises could be somehow connected. Dante's antics fit into the DMC universe, where everyone is a showoff and cocky oneliners are considered a gesture of politeness. But they feel totally contrasted in Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, where philosophical question matters more. Admittedly not totally the worst crossover I have seen, but still an immersion breaker. Not a good inclusion into the game.
@@Mayhzon I see your point and do see why Dante would muddy a more serious deeper toned game but I like the fan service personally but I am bias as I am a fan of both DMC and Nocturne. That and some of the art designers for Nocturne did the design for Dante’s devil triggers forms and some of the enemies in DMC 3, it explains were he went after DMC 2 when he got stuck in hell and he’s a pretty good enforcer on your team. So I’m glad these two companies worked together in general. Once again I understand your point and how this cocky Devil hunter does throw the lore and themes of the game under the bus but I think it’s all in good fun and it’s dlc so you don’t have to buy him if you don’t want this contrast of tone. I hope I didn’t come off as disrespectful in any manner and my first comment was more so my opinion in this guest appearance and how true it was to his character and how good he is in terms of gameplay.
@@MiguelAngel-go4ck Yea, I haven't played the raidou version but if I am correct, doesn't he play just like Dante but with different animations and such?
Something that I've always found interesting to note with Chiaki is the fact that, in a world not dominated by demons, brains are one and the same with power. The idea of having an intellectual edge in our world is something Chiaki was already adamantly perusing. The idea of gaining an edge through whatever means the world allows is one she's been following since the start of the game and it's a great logical through line for her character to bring it to its next step. Showing that, even back then, intelligence wasn't her goal. Power was.
Yeah, sadly she is just a product of the system, that teaches us that we have to be the best or be left in the dirt, but actually what we are actually being trained to be the best is another cog in the system, not to reach our full potential
The idea of TDE kinda falls apart when you realize that you can’t scrutinize whether anything Lucifer says is true or not. While you think of him as a partner, he uses you as a pawn.
I mean... You can see all endings as you playing the pawn to someone. Reasons ? You fight to create someone else world. TDE ? You fight for lucifer. Neutral ? You fight for the teacher's (forgot her name) world view and nothing prevents God to show up and wreck your shit. Looking at the game under that lens, the only ending where you're no pawn is the normal demon ending and the game overtly mocks you for choosing it. Buuuut... If you look at the bright side of things, the fact that all those factions court the Demi-Fiend is a testament to his importance. That and the fact that the Demi-Fiend decides who is right in the end. He's less a pawn and more of a kingmaker here, nobody can win without him.
@@professionalfangster1510 and considering you can beat lucifer it means if you really want to go against him you could but since you know the real threat is god himself is better having lucifer and all those demons on your side than against you
Disagreed with True Demon Ending being objectively the best -- there is absolutely nothing wrong with commodity. After going through what you do in the Vortex World, most people alive would choose to return to a semblence of what they once knew, in a heartbeat. Very few people would choose to forego it all and be thrusted into a neverending battle that they have no guarantee can even be **fought*, let alone won. That's why it's called True *DEMON** Ending -- because to choose it means that the pursuit of that violence and chaos defines the Demifiend you play as demonic, no longer human or bound by human needs and wants, whereas any of the other endings and the Reasons that gave them life are the few vestiges of humanity left. And there's nothing wrong with choosing humanity instead.
Same here, it is definitely the 'coolest' ending has the most content, but it can't even be canon as wasnt in the original release of the game and doesn't make much sense. In the true demon ending, you are not following your own will, you are following lucifer's and even the other demons and metatron are warning you about that.
@@wowwar2 The amount of people I've seen defend Lucifer is pretty wild to me. I'm not a law shill either, but Lucifer makes it pretty clear that he has been manipulating you and trying to turn you into the perfect pawn from the beginning. He sees that the MC has no Reason and decides that he can use him. He forces the magatama into you without your consent, hires Dante/Raidou to kill you, forces you into a battle royale with the rest of the fiends, and has no qualms killing you if you do not meet his standards. Ultimately you trade one higher power for another. The Freedom ending is my favorite because it rejects the ideologies of both sides and is the equivalent of telling Kagutsuchi and Lucifer to get bent. The MC had no reason because they *enjoyed the life they had and didn't have a particular desire to see any major change in it.* There's nothing wrong with just enjoying every passing day without being a doomer. But the TDE is just *cool.* I feel like people try too hard to justify it. Abandoning humanity to become Lucifer's general after destroying Kagutsuchi and taking the fight to the Great Will is sick
@@ApexGale It's worth noting tough that IIRC if you choose Freedom Lucifer actually respect the decision of the Demi-Fiend, acknowledging that just like Lucifer himself he chooses to stand against the Great Will for his own beliefs, and he just warns him however that he challenge the Great Will and will certainly have to face it again in future and that he should be ready for when that will happen.
@@ApexGalei know this is a year late, but THANK YOU. these are my exact thoughts and im glad im not alone with them. freedom ending is the best ending thematically
All of the reasons in the game are formed under a flawed system, so they're bound to have issues in them as they cannot be unaffected by the system they exist in to begin with. TDE frees everything from this system, but at the cost of everything. I find that to be a pretty good representation of how fixing entire systems is difficult as too many things are already rooted into them, which means that trying to entirely remake one is bound to cause harm to a lot of things, which is why many end up being afraid of change despite wanting things to be better. This can apply to a lot of topics.
@@SpicyRess808 you mean that persona is inward storytelling and focuses on the protagonist while smt is outward focused and mostly focuses on whats going on around the story/world
I don't how much relevance has but i always thought the manikins were also an important part of the game, Because of how cruel their fate was. Manikins were in my opinion the saddest part in the game creature that were created just for the sole purpose of being slaves and when futomimi one of the strongest of his kind tried to rebel against their destiny he failed miserably
Yeah I felt bad for the Manikins and was pretty happy with their progression within the story. Seeing them climb out of the sewers and create their own sanctuary city was inspiring and made me really want to side with them. I was sorely disappointed I couldn’t help Futomimi or save him. While the Manikins were starting to lose sight of their original goal, I felt siding with them would have been my go to decision.
7:13 "you can't hold on one demon" Me at level 67 finally taking the painful choice to fuse Daisojou even if it stopped getting skills and mutations at least 40 levels ago
That where people wrong, if you want to keep one demon, make sure it is the demon with no weakness, have at least 1 absorb/repel , and have to inherit at least 1 dyne outside his initial affinity outside light /dark, and carry buff/debuff before I refuse to fuse daisouju even after hitting the last skill, even i make sure daisouju to inherit fog breath and ma-kaja skill, so when he reach the last skill he pivot from support damage to full support for TDE route
@@impalacrush2439 I mean daisouju is a big exception. He is naturally aimed towards healing and buff/debuff support due to him essentially having infinite MP. And you can do that regardless of level differences. The only issue he ends up getting his low HP which can lead to him being 1 shot way more often than anyone else in your party come late game. You can also always just fuse a new daisouju with a sacficial fusion and give him Life Surge to make up for it in late game.
While the True Demon Ending conflicts with my beliefs, I still think that freedom by destroying the Universe isn’t true freedom. If you wan to live your life in constant fear of it getting destroyed, live life to its fullest. This may be a temporary fix, but like you said this will ultimately cause more problems.
More then that; it contradicts itself. You destroy God. Then what? There is a power vacuum. Who fills it? You/the demons. Now you/the demons dictate how the world is. All you did was take God's place. The cycle of creation and destruction is absolute. It's literally what makes resistance. All you're doing is changing the details so you're in power.
IceQueen975 Also, according to the Bible, Lucifer/Satan has no power to create. So they would destroy the world to stay in limbo since the only person who could create a new world(Demi-Fiend) gave up his reason and the only way to create this freedom. It literally makes 0 sense when you think about it.
@@IceQueen975 I like to think after Demi-Fiend does his thing with the tde when everything is said and done he relinquishes his own power and allows creation to continue without anything above it lording over how it should and shouldn't proceed. This because what would be the point of going through all the trouble of destroying God for true freedom of choice and will just to take his place and commit to the same rules that you rejected?
Glad to see other people talk about Nocturne, but I disagree when you start talking about the story and concepts of the game.
I think that there's a lot of characterization, the game sets it up so that the friends all go to this apocalyptic thing and once you're shown to have visibly changed they are unsure of what to do, and also the world ended. The character is shown through all the interactions and the final battle is showing how focused each character becomes with regards to their ideal world. They lament you not siding with them but the focus isn't your friendship, it's the idea of an ideal world that has a good general idea but brought to an extreme. By the end they aren't even the person you went to the hospital with both literally because of what the demonic sponsor does to them and by the process of the game. I think the characterization is just not overly announced. It's more subtle and realistic like SJ Catherine. I think you're expecting a Persona sort of narrative when this isn't meant to be about that. In this regard their actions are their characterization not you spending time with them. You mention it having not much story but it's story is pretty rich it's just not a straight forward narrative like Persona 4. I also don't think more content being in TDE makes it the better ending. It might make for more interesting gameplay or incentive to replay though. Overall it feels like you aren't really speaking an opinion based on experience, but echoing everything people generally say about the game. I don't think that's what you've done but it's how it feels since there isn't anything in the vid I haven't seen reiterated innumerable times by people approaching the game expecting something like Persona 3-5 or simply not taking the game and story telling style for what it is.
I honestly love Nocturnes approach to character development. as i feel like in any other rpg they would just force flashback scenes (or scenes you arent present for) that break the flow of the story in an attempt to make you understand their development, disrupting the atmosphere and immersion you have into the world, while nocturne instead has you interact with and go through the same things that your friends have experienced, except that you are now part demon, strong enough to hold your own against the demons and their influence, allowing you to understand their change in mindset without having to explicitly say it.
@@alfthetruelord I started replaying it now and in the first three hours you learn a lot about Chiaki and Isamu through their actions and interactions. You even see the dynamics of their friendship and how it's tested I find it irking when people say otherwise when the exposition is there.
@@Larrue i find it really common for people to call the story and characters meh, im prepared for an influx with the remaster idk why people think story and characters need to be extremely obvious to be good. my favorite thing about nocturne is how much it made me think during my first playthrough
Given that the ultimate point of the characters and relationships between them is to provide context for the Reasons presented.. I feel that even if the characters come across as flat, that may have been the point. Needlessly distracting the Player with futile memories of their friends is simply biasing them towards their favorite side characters.. that's why the ones with real Reasons always end up being assholes when they get to the top. Giving the Players ample time to reject them
I think the point of being able to name these characters is that their supposed to be your friends, not Demi-Fiends, but in that same regard, you're supposed to take up the role of Demi-Fiend. This probably works better in Japan where the setting doesn't seem so alien, but in any of these games Tokyo is interchangeable for any city near you, it just always takes place in Tokyo since that is what the developers are most familiar with. The setting is as uniquely Japanese as it is modern. With that in mind, there likely isn't a lot of need for characterization of Chiaki, Isamu, or Ms. Takao from the point of view of your average Japanese player. These are supposed to be people they know. For people wanting to play the canon "Yu Narukami" playthrough, their going to be disappointed when the world lacks the internal characterization they might expect from another title. This, imo, is one of the strengths of main line MegaTen and its greatest asset. Shin Megami Tensei drops you into a brutal world with personalities on every spectrum. Tells you if you want to survive you better convince your enemies to follow you. Forces you into uncomfortable situations and confronts you with a number of ideologies and then puts your response under a microscope. Rather than making you pick between reading a book or folding envelopes, you're deciding the fate of entire schools of thought, groups of individuals (human and otherwise) and even the universe itself. You aren't playing to see what wacky hijinks you and your friends get up to next, but, initially to survive, and then, eventually, to see who will stand between you and your ideal next. Will you give in to the peer pressure of your friends, if only to say you have a friend in this empty world? Or will you strive for an ideal you believe in, no matter the consequences?
Honestly i always assumed the lack of relationship between the characters was part of the characters. In the early game the interaction between chiaki and isamu always felt and read like theyre only close because they dont have anyone but you and youre only hanging out with them bc you dont hang out with others. I think it also reflects their Reasoning, Isamu wants to be left alone and Chiaki looks down on others, and you just support.
Gotta disagree on some points, especially the TDE. Nocturne is unique in that all of the Reasons count as Lawful since you’re going along with this vicious cycle of rebirth. The normal demon ending and the TDE and the Freedom ending all technically count as chaos/neutral endings, but to varying degrees. Everyone and their mom loves the True Demon Ending because you get to “punch God in the face” and end the Amala Labyrinth multiverse forever, but my heart belongs to the Freedom route. It might not end in Demi-fiend going off to kill God like a total badass Antichrist, but it’s about choosing your own path and not being motivated by power or fear of existential consequences. You don’t sacrifice your humanity, you save everyone by undoing the apocalypse, and you’re still powerful enough to punch-out any god that wants to fuck with you. Lucifer even supports your choice to follow your own path, and that’s badass in and of itself. Because you’re not his pawn, you’re his peer. Fun fact: Hijiri comes back to life in the Freedom Ending. If he really is who we all suspect he is, then that means this ending is the first time in a long time he’s been allowed to live truly free.
That's all well and good, but luci also explains that by taking the freedom ending you're putting yourself on God's shit-list. This means that God will punish for all eternity after you die just like what happened with Hijiri. At least with the TDE you have the power to take out God so he can't inevitably punish you.
@@Soooooooooooonicable I doubt TDE Demi-fiend has enough power to beat god, even with the help of Lucifer. If he did beat god, why does he randomly show up in DDS? God is literally the most powerful thing in the universe(excluding the Axiom, but that doesn't even really count). Only, like, four Megaten characters have actually killed god, and I doubt Demi-fiend is one of them.
Personally, I felt that the humans characters being underdeveloped was pretty diegetic : Every scene in the game is seen through Demi-Fiend's POV (except a few of Dante/Lucifer's scenes) so you naturally are not always there to see them be developed and grow, as if they were in your party or something. I still would've liked to see them be fleshed out more (especially Chiaki , best character) but it worked pretty great with the tone and pacing of the game.
@@hahmann Yes, but I think the context being so drastic could realistically incite rapid change in a person, unlike IRL people who don't always have to deal with prolonged and extreme situations. Also, Megatens are always pretty vague about how much time passes in the plot (except Apocalypse lol)
@@hahmann I mean... Yes. Except here the 3 characters who change are: Getting mad with knowledge for the journalists, it's not that surprising and could happen to anyone who discovers what he discovered in a blink of an eye. Chiaki, who got beaten up, had to run away and lost an arm to fucking serial killer in a world full of monsters and traumatic events lurking around every corner, also... She is still quite similar to how she was when you first see her in the game. And Izamu.... Gets beaten up and tortured, go to seek isolation and gets beaten up again, he also absorb a bunch of guys in a place where everyone wishes to be left alone and keep in check with his original self, a cool looking guy trying to keep apparences because he's actually a fucking coward.
@@MrLednard Sums it up nicely. Chiaki acted out of desperation after she got attacked by Sakahagi, Hijiri went mad with the knowledge he obtained, combined with his hatred for Hikawa, and not to mention, Isamu felt like he only would be safe if he isolated himself as much as he could due to what happened to him before
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 Not so much, Chiaki was not desperate, Chiaki was traumatized and came to the conclusion that she was at fault, because in this world, it's the survival of the fittest, which makes a whole lot of sense, since victims tend to blame themselves for stuff that happens. It's not desperation, itns trauma.
I disagree with the assertion that TDE is objectively the best ending. I think that Nocturne's themes are subtle and broad enough that the theme of the game changes based on what ending you get. The events of this game are interpretive, and the perspective you decide to take influences that interpretation. In regards to content, you can do the Labyrinth of Amala without doing TDE. That's what I did. I stopped at Beelzebub, but I still experienced 90% of the additional content. There are also plenty of side quests to do that aren't tied to endings (Mara, The Four Heavenly Kings, the Magatama, the Onis, etc.), so I don't think it's fair to say that more content=better ending. And on the point of the characters, I think they have sufficient development, it's just off screen. We see the results of their development through their mental degradation throughout the game. They react to the Vortex World in believable ways, which as far as SMT tends to go. I understand wanting to feel the impact of the betrayals, but SMT IV proved that this dev team is not very skilled with that. I hope SMT V sticks to the Nocturne format. SMT is about ideology, Persona is about psychology. Mainline games are on a grander scale, so characterization does matter, but isn't the point. Anyway, great video. I enjoyed your interpretation and discussion of the game even if I don't completely agree with it. I'm overjoyed that more people are playing Nocturne, and I hope your viewers follow your lead.
He's pretty fixated on solutions to problems that really have none. Credit my point of view comes from the series as a whole and the plot points found in smt 4 apocalypse, that it's a continuous cycle. Same shit different day. In that respect the only difference between reverting the world and going full demon changes is demifiends status in the cycle. He's still an adversary of the law faction. One outcome is him getting to live his life as it was a little longer before he has to get stuck in.
I did the same so right on! I went as far as Metatron, right when you’re complete the Labyrinth, before turning back. You still get to play the content.
Referring to how some wanted to see characters' reactions to being betrayed, what I find interesting about Nocturne's Reasons is that the creators are set up as not really caring what happens in the end, except for TDE. (Spoilers ahead) This is best exemplified in the neutral ending where Demifiend simply recreates the world as it was in the beginning of the game; when everyone meets up again, they're all still friends and on good terms despite remembering everything from the Vortex World. Since this is pretty much the worst case scenario for everyone trying to recreate the world other than Demon ending (keep the Vortex World as the new world), I don't imagine they would care about the other results either (at least in the ones they could even meet up at all). They were simply beaten by the better fighter in the end, nothing more to it.
I will say that they develop the characters reason and experiences through the demons that you come across, especially the ones that follow the characters or had been in the same arc/area. All of which influence the characters mindset and it shows, yet not having to force any scenes of the characters in a way that might either feel out of place in a game like nocturne. Something i honestly prefer due to how the overall experience is.
I started to develop an interest in psychology after watching videos of Silverquill's. In a sense, knowing the fact that the persona games are built off that same thing interests me. The problems I have is accessibility because I don't have any playstation systems. The only persona game I legit can play is Persona 4 on Steam
Matador is indeed a memorable boss but we have to remember that there was a time where he was not in the game so calling him a necessary boss that teaches you about buffs is just how you have experienced it.
Yeah it's moreso the opposite in that the original Japanese release was actually lacking in the roadblock necessary to truly understand the gameplay's depth, that being Matador The Maniax rerelease simply addressed a part of the original that was missing
I’d just like to point out one other big flaw with musubi, in order for Isamu to create his reason he has to rely on others (aka the Demifiend and the various demons that support him) which contradicts with the core idea behind the reason “a world of isolation” leading me to disagree with him even more.
Except no one who supports him actually helps him. They're pretty much.... Lying on the side of the arena telling him he's the best while he's doing all the work, like Yu-Gi-Oh characters. He's (if you desire) helped by the Demi-Fiend because the Demi-Fiend chose to help him, he did not ask for it, and he ain't rewarding the Demi-Fiend because the Demi-Fiend did nothing but to follow his own free will. He also needs a Demonic Sponsor... Because he HAS to follow the rules of the Vortex World, he can't just make his own reason out of thin air. Because his reason does not exist yet. Creating his reason contradict with his reason because the Vortex is a world where is reason does not and cannot exist, which is why he wants to create his reason, unlike Chiaki who pretty much decided to do Vortex World 2: Electric Boogaloo
@@brotbrotsen1100 Well, you see how sometimes you go in vacation and wish to never come back because the place is so nice ? Well, that's Chiaki in the Vortex. Except she lost an arm and was like "This is fine." You see how the teacher could not recreate the world because she could not formulate a reason ? Well, Chiaki said "Fuck that", and copied the Vortex world, because in retrospective, she rather quite liked it. And it's not hard to understand, the moment she understood the rules and regained her spirit, she adapted and next thing she knows there is nothing that can stand in her way, except for one tattooed asshole wandering the desert in shorts, why would she change the world if she litteraly has the power to rule it ?
From the way the game presents itself, it reminds me of Fallout New Vegas. Seeing characters come with their own reason as to how mankind should operate is very similar to what each faction in New Vegas wants for the world
I recently replayed Nocturne and got the true demon ending, then they announced the HD remaster lol. Definitley one of my favorite games. A great masterpiece
27:21 In the Freedom ending it is not so much putting a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches as you the Protagonist becoming responsible for your original World with the powers you kept from your time in the Vortex World.
The time for the lion has gone, it is time for the child. There is something fitting in Hikawa's lines "I was not the creator' I was the baptist. I was merely sent to prepare the way for you--the new creator." in this Nietzschean game. Just a sense I get.
Isamu's Reason and the world he wants to create is something that, at one point, would have really resonated with me. For years I was convinced that escapism from the inevitable nihilism of life was the correct path. It took a long time and many hard knocks for me to realize that accepting life for what it is ultimately leads to the happiest and most fulfilled outcome. Yes, death is inevitable. As is pain, loss, and hardship. But being consumed and defined by the fear of these things is truly what causes most suffering. Learning how to stay in the present and looking at the brighter side of things is definitely the healthier option.
For me, what's important to living a life you can be content with is finding balance in… everything. We have aspects of one part of life that we need to learn to live with, but we must still understand that as humans, we are bound to be imperfect in the way we attempt to do so. Our ultimate goal as a species is to grow, develop, and achieve, but contrary, there will never be a point at which we reach our limit on how far we can go. We keep making progress, but no matter how many goals we set for ourselves, there will never be an end to it all. That is until we are forced to end it all at some point or another. Our goal as humans… to make the most of what we *can* until the end of all things. We will try our best, and it's up in the air if it pays off or feels worthwhile, but no matter how much or how little we do, eventually, everything stops, and we obtain the result of our efforts, in whichever way it occurs depending on faith. To live the _best_ life is to balance what you can do, what you want to do, what you should do, and what you need to do. I repeat, it won't be a perfect balance, but one aspect will always lead to another and vice versa. For now, what matters is living, maintaining our survival, using the life that we are provided with because of this, and doing… something, literally anything with it, so long as it comes with a reason, be it right or wrong, good or bad. We exist to stay existent for as long as we can be, and by considering the inevitability of the end, we exploit what we have to our heart's content. Thank you for listening to my unnecessarily long… list of words. Why oh why do I put more effort into a TH-cam comment reply related to a 20-year-old PS2 game than my English courses?
just started Nocturn a few days ago and after playing through most of the game I feel like no matter what actions I take, I will still end up working towards the freedom ending knowing that it's just a temporary fix to a grander problem. all the other options are either flawed by their nature or are promoted by people I don't want to work with; including the True Deamon Ending where you embrace liberation through anarchy/rebellion against god. The Freedom ending at least recognizes humanity's capacity for autonomy and acknowledges the hope that humanity can make the world better than when we found it. Hope being the keyword here as all other options operate on a complete lack of hope or trust. To me, it doesn't matter how perfect you think your ideal world is or how better off things will be in it, without hope there's only stagnation and fear, without trust there is only conflict and greed. That's why I'm favoring the freedom ending because it provides hope and where there's hope there's life.
Hey man, your videos on the persona series were great, so I'm really looking forward to this! I've been tempted to get into the largest SMT franchise as a whole, so this is gonna be a great starting point. So thanks for your hard work, and sweet video essays!
Loved this video analysis. Yeah I agree. I feel like Nocturne's difficulty is a little overblown. It is challenging but honestly every boss battle is like a gym leader battle in pokemon. As long as you have the right team you don't necessarily have to grind for 10,000 hours to beat a boss. Nocturne to me is a lot like dark souls where you can't be upset when you "Game Over". Failure comes with knowledge you can analyze to help you out on your next try.
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Only just stumbled across your channel a few weeks ago but loved your videos on P3 and P4. P5 was my first experience with this franchise so these videos are super interesting.
I personally agree with the freedom ending as I think people should decide who they should be and while there will be bad people it’s the polices job to lock em up or people ridicule them for their actions... basically I agree with the freedom ending
The demon ending does nothing. Why pick it? You destroy the whole world just to prove a point. I ain't a law supporter, but the great will is part of the natural order, the natural order must not be changed.
High school boy loses his hoodie and sets out on a journey to find it. He slightly recalls something about demons and the end of the world but lets be honest, he was only half paying attention cause he just wants his damn hoodie. Spoiler: he never finds it
I love Aradia's whole "thing." That weird Silent Hill/Jacob's Ladder twitchiness always makes them seem somehow even more "other" than all of the demons and things running around the Vortex World.
this is my favorite SMT. this games makes me realise that turn based isnt dead. back then after playing persona 4 i think there isnt that much great turn based rpg that enjoyable so i play other genre(online mmorpg). after found this gem. i really like turn based rpg again. the most enjoyable thing for me is self insert to demi fiend and decide to go TDE on hard mode(yes my first SMT is nocturne with hard mode). the ending is really sooooo damn good that makes me want to play other SMT
I’ve always felt that Nocturne is less a traditional JRPG in how it presents its story, but more akin to a religious or philosophical text, sharing a handful of parables with the intent of sharing a theoretical idea or point.
All paths have their pros and cons, for me the real lesson is that there will never be an end to dispute on what is the best ideology one chooses upon themselves.
I really don't get much of the difference apart from SMT touching subjects and questions in relation to irl religions and beliefs with the psychology involved.
Regarding the Freedom Ending: It also seems to indicate that at least some of you have memories from your time in the Vortex World (at the very least, you and your teacher do). With these experiences, it paints a hopeful picture that you and your friends can possibly change the way the world turned out for the better, armed now with stronger wills and bonds because of it; Your teacher even says as much, stating that you've given her hope for the world, which she previously didn't have. That's why I love the Freedom Ending. It definitely has problems, but it comes off as the one good ending where you've taken back the futures of all mankind and given all of humanity a second chance. Even Lucifer seems to approve, as he himself chose the same thing eons ago. I also believe Lucifer warns you because you've destroyed the Kagutsuchi and stopped the cycle in the Freedom Ending. You didn't revert time to before the Conception, but instead recreated the world as it was before. While the True Demon Ending might have content, you can actually complete all of its content on any other ending, so long as you don't go down the elevator after Metatron. Additionally, it's basically the same as the Demon Ending, except you end up Lucifer's Lackey. Essentially, it's just a trumped up Chaos Ending.
@Arsene Lupin The cycle has definitely stopped; you killed Kagutsuchi, the one who enabled it, so that seems to indicate it has been halted, at least for now. There's no indication in the ending that another conception can occur, and Kagutsuchi states that your ideal world is one opposed to rebirth. You are right, that even Lucifer mentions that YHVH will eventually come to punish you for it, and presumably try to reinstate the cycle, but his insistence that you hold onto the strength you've found so you can be ready for him always seemed to indicate, to me, that you can possibly see that path of thorns to the end, and keep the world you chose out of the cycle.
The characters are not being hypocritical tho. They are trying to build a new world respecting what they have come to believe in. They are just adapting to this world they live in in order to make what they think is a better world, it is shown through the few characterization of each character: Hikawa sacrifices your teacher regardless of her will, because in his world, no one as his own will, everyone aims for the same goal. Better even, when you fight Ahriman, he realizes what his world means: he shows a sadistic nature by turning the fight into a game, but mid-fight he realizes that he cannot do that, as it does not follow his own worldview, so the fight becomes a regular boss fight. His actions are cold and calculated and tho his genius is to thank for everything that happens, he shows no unnecessary pride and do what he think must be done to achieve that. Also, he is the worst choice because he is just a communist. Chiaki learned from the world, she encourages the strong to rule, but do not discourage the weak from trying: when she lose an arm to one of the easiest boss in the game, she blames none but herself, she's at fault, she's the weak one here. But she does her best to improve, she comes to seek power and become the strongest, beside you, as shown when you follow the other 2 reasons and she kills Hikawa and Izamu if you follow them. Better, when you actually follow her, unlike the other 2, she actually challenges you, because only the strongest is worthy of making her reason come to life, and if she loses, she dies, but it's of no importance, because her reason will live on, because weither it is you or her, the strongest decided so. Ironically, she is also the easiest of the 3 Reasons and summon 2 guys to fight alongside her. And finally, Izamu is... A special case, you see, his reason is not born from his desire alone, it is the wish of about everyone in the Amala Network, the man who wishes for solitude is the one with lots of faces all around his body, but more importantly, whenever you go in Amala's Network, no Demon will join you, for various reasons, not carring is one, but every ghost you mean wishes to be left alone, like the nurse who tells you "I'll heal you if you get out", and his desires reflect that. But making his reason... He's doing it alone, yes, he have Noah, but because the Vortex World is forcing him to have a sponsor to achieve his reason, yes, there are people following him, but unlike Chiaki or Hikawa, he is not using them and they do not follow his ordees, they are but followers following him to never have to follow anyone ever again. Better, when you follow him, he is the only one not to give you a Demon ally as a reward for helping him, because you are not helping him, you are cooperating with him to follow your own desire of creating his reasons, he have no reasons to reward you because you are doing this for yourself and the birth of his reason is the reward. Izamu is a walking contradiction, but it's because the law of the Vortex World are the complete opposite of what he wishes to create: a world were people need to cooperate.
Honestly being contradictory and hypocritical arguably adds to their characters even more. Them being true to themselves or having a well thought out Reason isn't the point. It's meant to communicate that for all of their flaws, they were able to survive, adapt and eventually thrive even in the extreme conditions of the vortex world, and they did so in huge part by abandoning the morality of the previous world. They're arguably more badass than Demifiend because they didn't get a head start from Lucifer, and were able to come up with their own reason, something that Demi wasn't able to.
@@leonardocarvalho7306 I mean... It's not that the Demi-Fiend is unable to come up with a reason, it's the case for the teacher tho, it's that the Demi-Fiend cannot come up with a reason, because he was "cursed" by Lucifer. Speaking of the teacher, she would be the truly hyprocitical and contradictory one, she got tired of the old world and wanted a better world, brought a worse one and was unable to find a new world to build even though everything was handed to her on a silver plate.
I definitely disagree with them not being hypocritical. Hikawa, for all his talk of a world without emotion or passion, has a lot of both at times. Chiaki never develops her own strength and only borrows/steals from everyone else. Isamu wants a world where no one interferes with your own world, yet is more than happy to have you interact with his plans so long as it benefits him. There’s nothing wrong with their hypocrisy though. It shows that even though they paint a perfect picture of paradise (in their own vision), it is still inherently flawed by being founded on contradictory principles.
@MrLednard Fantastic comment! Though you got a detail wrong: Chiaki does not kill Hikawa when you side with him, in fact, he is the only Reason representative who lives to see the World he envisioned come to fruition. Also, calling Shijima communism is pretty misleading but it's probably just a joke I'm not getting. The whole "Chiaki, Isamu and Hikawa are hypocrites" mentality only really exists because of the new content added in the Maniax rerelease. True demon is the most popular ending, so people go out of their way to make the others look worse.
Beat Nocturnal and got the true demon ending last month. Easily one of the best jrpg games I've played. It's not as hard as people say it is. I literally over leveled for Matador only to completely wash him. Funny that the memes made him seem so scary and I beat him first try lol. Only hard boss that had me worried was Metatron
I've never seen one of your videos before nor have I ever played this game & yet I dropped a like within the first 35 seconds. I could just tell this video essay would be good lol
Good job man, I haven't played Nocturne that much, I've heard a great deal about it. Now it really has my curiosity. If you are ever going to make another smt video, I highly suggest Digital Devil Saga
what are you talking about spongedude? hard is where most fun is at. Money might be the only problem but proper resource management is all you need tbh
Something I never see people bring up about Musubi is that social isolation can drive people insane, it’s how a lot of criminals are born, in fact. At some point I didn’t think Musubi was all that bad of a reason, but after learning about shit like I mentioned before, I realized that there aren’t really any winners with it.
Hmm... it seems like all of the endings are “bad,” but Isamu’s feels the most docile compared to the others.’ Sure no one will learn anything when living in their own personal bubble... but why does that matter? I get that you ever won’t change as a person, but why would you need to at that point? What’s so bad about being happy in solitude? You’re already happy. Who gives a shit anymore?
Even Isamu’s is flawed inherently, because even though it’s the most passive and docile, I don’t personally think it would leave you contempt, life is going through hardships that define who we are. The Matrix actually kinda has a similar plot point, where the first version was a pure paradise, but it failed, and even End of Evangelion has Shinji reject instrumentality for similar reasons, we need other people and that life is meant to be with both pain and joy together. And as people we need to have a sense of choice, or at least the illusion. So while Isamu has the best intentions, he’s essentially taking a way a core part of humanity.
@@TigoODonnell That’s fine and all, but I’d rather take that than fearing for my life every day, vanishing into The Void, or sacrificing all life to allow the Prince of Evil to wage his dumbass war. Unless we wanna take the ending where it’s: “Eh, let it be someone else’s problem,” route. Point is: I never said Isamu’s ending was “good,” so I don’t know why y’all are telling me it’s flaws; I already know the flaws. Y’all don’t need to tell me that the negatives define the positives in life. Y’all don’t need to tell me if he’s right or wrong. Y’all don’t need to tell me how living a life of solitude is a hollow life. We all know... but this game doesn’t allow a “happy ending.” Isamu’s is just the one with the least blood on his hands.
@@Deoxys_Used_Mimic Best Ending is when you tell everyone to fuck off and doom the world, because fuck God, fuck Lucifer, fuck your teacher, fuck Izamu, fuck Chiaki, fuck the journalists, fuck the big glowy Moon in the sky. This message was brought to you by the Manikins gang.
does destroying the universe prove that God isn't necessary, though? from what i can tell, the True Demon ending proves the exact opposite-that humans cannot keep creation stable, and if given the chance they would cast aside their humanity and commit horrible acts for the sake of attaining power.
No it does not. Destroying the Universe is an act to show God he has limits. The Demon Ending aims to prove that humans wishes for freedom and are ready to side with those that can help them, casting aside their "humanity" which they already had to do in order to follow the Great Will's will, see how Chiaki and Izamu turned out, or all the shit Hikawa does. Power is not a goal, but a mean, because you need power to obtain what you want, which is why everyone: Hikawa, Izawa, Chiaki, your teacher, the Manikins, the journalist, wants the Demi-Fiend to join them, because he is the one gifted with power.
@@MrLednard it's not a gift. it's a damn curse. and the way you put it makes the TDE even *worse.* you're literally saying that Lucifer and the Demi-Fiend destroyed ALL OF REALITY and EVERYONE IN IT just to prove a goddamn point?! keep in mind that it wasn't God who caused the conception to happen-it was Hikawa. God Himself only ever sends metatron to stop the Demi-Fiend from throwing his soul away, and Kagutsuchi for all intents and purposes isn't truly evil.
@@christopherbravo1813 No. It's a trade. You are gifted the power needed to survive, to choose, but in exchange you cannot create. No, you just understand... I dunno what but something else. They doomed the universe to go against God's Will, because the concept of the Conception in itself is dreadful: just take what happened to every human, all dead, some turned into powerlessel, choiceless Manikins, some turned into ghosts, Some sacrificied, 3 turned into pretty much demons and at least 3 driven mad by their adventures in the Vortex World (I'm counting Hijiri, even though he's a Manikin from the start). And even if it's Hikawa's action that set up the Conception in motion, the Great Will made it a necessary evil, because each world is created with a set amount of power, in other words, it's an infinite cycle which will always end with a Vortex world and humans fighting to get their wishes in an empty world full of demons. That or the world will just go bye-bye. God is responsible for what happens because he created a flawed system which inevitably results in a dog eats dog world. I never said Kagutsuchi was evil, I dunno where you get that from. And Metatron is not send by God, Metatron acted by himself.
@@MrLednard if that's supposed to be a "trade", then it is not a fair one at all. also, trades involve the willingness of BOTH PARTIES. one person can't just give you something and take something else you have without your permission. that's robbery. while it is true that every human dies in the conception, they are all meant to be brought back once the new world is created. Also, most of the information we have regarding the Conception comes from a biased and untrustworthy source. God may not have intended for the Conception to occur in such a way. also, the reason why I mentioned Kagutsuchi is because Kagutsuchi is an avatar of the Great Will (God). and where is it stated that Metatron was acting on his own?
I was debating waiting for the remaster, but considering we don't have a concrete date for the localized version, I decided to just stick with the one I'm used to.
Yosuga for life. Was the first ending I went for and I don't regret it. Aslo it's NOT hypocrisy. She was strong of BELIEF. And though that inner strength she gained physical strength. So there
I treat Yosuga as a reshuffle, I didn’t like the reasons given to me but Yosuga’s constant conflict and turbulence meant that it was most likely to result in a second conception where new reasons would be made
One of the things I like about Nocturne is, there isn't a good ending. Hear me out, the Reason endings aren't particularly great, outside of *maybe* Isamu's. The demon ending just leaves you stranded in a wasteland. Now your probably thinking 'what about the Freedom ending?' That sounds like a good ending on paper, but is it really? Sure, you returned everything back to normal, reviving your friends in the process, but there's a major flaw with it. That flaws name just so happens to be *record scratch*. He is *not* happy that you rejected Conception. Even worse, Conception can and will happen again. And that leaves the True Demon ending. While ending the cycle sounds all great and stuff, do you know what you do in the process? You prevent the creation of any new world, ever again. You just wiped out a whole universe, and everything that was in it, save demons, of course. But by then it doesn't really matter does it? You're a full blown demon now after all. All that's left is to march on Heaven's gate, to end this once and for all.
I’ve seen so many people over the years focus too much on the solitude aspect of Musubi, to the point that they disregard the creation aspect completely and as a result misinterpret the Reason entirely. So I’m glad he got it right. Speaking of Musubi from a purely selfish standpoint the ending is great. Even in our own reality the opportunity to create a personal utopia closed off from outside interference would be far too tempting to pass up for most people I imagine. But Therein lies the problem with Musubi, it is inherently selfish, a dream world for the individual but only the individual. If you want the best ending for yourself it doesn’t get much better than Musubi in terms of potential. But if you want the best ending for humanity as a whole, it can’t be Musubi.
@@johnryu2317 Kind of a late reply here, but the main aspect I feel makes the ending even better is the fact that we don't know what happens in the end.
I look at the Freedom ending like this, Demi-fiend and his friends were unfairly f*cked up by the entire SMT3 situation. It turned friends into enemies and ruined everyone's lives. I choose the ending which gives Demi-fiend back the life he had, with his friends. Screw the reason crap, seek friendship.
Is it possible that all of the Aradia incarnations flee from universes destroyed via TDE, if so, is Aradia symbolic of a cancer within the Amala universe that subsequently consumes everything? Moreso, what is the nature of time and causality across Amala?.. if by defining TDE as true canon, is the players perspective of it the first TDE, but because Amala lacks a strictly direct or one-dimensional flow of time, is it possible that 'future' TDE evens effect past actions? Does Aleph ever actually talk?
The differences between Nocturne and the Persona series are deliberate. Nocturne is all about making a CHOICE, while the Persona series is about dealing with the results of the choices thrust upon you. Also, each SMT game has an individual identity. Nocturne: Choosing your reality P2: How perceptions alter reality P3: Death P4: Growing into Adulthood P5: Truth versus "Reality" Digital Devil Saga: Free will Digital Devil Saga 2: The ends never justify the means & sacrifice Devil Summoner 2: Passage from one Generation to the next. DemiKids: Balance. SMT games are intellectually deep games when you peer beneath their surface. Always involving philosophically and religiously deep concepts while making them fun
@Aria Khalaji I honestly can't see how. It isn't Dostoevsky or Shakespeare, but the story has an engaging plot. While it may not be the best of SMT's work, it is also certainly much more thought out than the majority of cookie cutter games that are mass produced by a lot of mainstream, or even indie, game makers.
I'm baffled by some of the self-contradictory statements being made here. You say the difficulty of the dungeons has been overstated ... because the only challenge comes from the puzzles and combat encounters ... which are part of the dungeon difficulty? You say that the characterization is weak so that you don't feel anything before fighting them ... even tho every character's Reason exposes their own inner hypocrisies and failures, and the fact that you have to bear witness to each of your friends' slow decline into madness before you put them down like rabid dogs? You say that the True Demon Ending is the best ending ... because you have to do the most content to get it? It's not necessarily a bad video, but I think you need to examine what you're trying to say before rambling off a script. As it is, the vid seems to just echo a lot of opinions about Nocturne that you can already find echoing through the internet, but treats them as if these takes are somehow new and different. Also, please keep in mind that the original writers for Nocturne did not, in fact, work on the Maniax version, which makes a lot of the story revelations in the Amara Labyrinth a bit more ... suspect. I mean, key point here, everyone parrots the notion that Aradia is a "false god" ... because that's what the Lady in Black said, right? The Lady in Black ... who works for Lucifer ... who wants the Demi-fiend to descend to the lowest level of the Labyrinth ... as though he has some sort of ulterior motive ... to perhaps not be completely truthful with him. Food for thought.
I said Nocturne's difficulty OVERALL has been overstated, I did not specify dungeons. Even so, just because I say that the main source of difficulty comes from a certain aspect, that doesn't mean I contradict the point I made about the game not being as hard as people say it is. I can say "The main challenge of Persona 2 innocent sin is in it's combat" but that doesn't mean that the game itself is hard. That just means that the hardest part of that game is the combat system. But that's not me explicitly saying it's difficult. I even say in the video that I think Nocturne's dungeons are relatively straight forward, I never said they were difficult. That's not a contradiction. I also don't understand what's so confusing about me saying that the True Demon Ending is the best ending because it offers a lot of quality content. It's a very straightforward point. This route offers the best content in the game in my eyes while answering a lot of questions about the world itself. So I like it because of its exclusive content and how it expands on the story. Not a contradiction. I don't understand how the game having new writers for the new content makes it "Suspect" it's still SMT Nocturne, so why should I be suspicious of any information? Everyone says Aradia is a false god because that's the information that's provided by the game. Lucifer actually never lies to the player at all and actually tells you what will happen if you reach the bottom of the Amala Labyrinth when you finish the 4th Kalpa. He's very open about his plan at that point and it's up to the player to chose to finish the dungeon or not. I don't need to have a "Hot take" to make a video on something that I like. People share the same opinion that I do? Well, that's cool, it doesn't matter to me. I wanted to talk about Nocturne because my subscribers wanted me to talk about mainline SMT. So I said how I feel about this game. I don't treat my opinions as if they're different. I just say what I honestly feel. And all it takes is one look at this comment section to see that there are people who disagree with what I say.
I think the most frustrating part of the dificulty would be that because you have to be careful with your skills and party, not having the option if choosing skills when fusing demons just feels time consuming and not really tactical
SMTV Mini Spoiler.... I like to think that with the end of True Demon Ending from Nocturne, with the will to kill God, connects with the premise of SMTV, that God now is dead, and the power is there for someone to take it.
I think the lack of personality comes from before and after thier transformation. They talk with you a lot more before, but after they become more Demon like, not half demon like you but more distant. It could be even you are different to them, none of them stay with you and instead move through the demon filled vortex world without you. the powerless humans stay away from the half-demon and friend who could protect them.
19:16 what I find interesting is that the angels sided with Chiaki. When you think about it, it could be that they wish to use her Reason to ensure nobody can ever surpass or defeat YHVH. That thing that happened last time with some asshole just... shooting and slashing him to death.
I agree, Nocturne is a very hard game (as in being challenging to play and progress). However, that being said, I also enjoy taking the time to explore the weird and wonderful world that is created in the game, relish the challenge of finding and recruiting new demons, have fun discovering the combinations needed to create or gain access to new demons. Exploring, Finding, Crafting; all 3 in one game! That's why I enjoy games like Dark Cloud (both 1 & 2) with its crafting system and the literal world building mechanics, many of the Final Fantasy games (in particular, 7 with the finding and combining Materias, 8 with the drawing of both magic and Summons AND junctioning both to develop more powerful characters, 10 with the sphere grid and its attendant process for character development, 10.2 in which finding spheres and the use of the Garment Grid is vital for advancing the characters' potential, and 12 in which the choice of equipment and skills (called in the game licenses) has direct effect on the characters' development). And then there's Fallout 4 where ye can buuld LOTS of things from equipment to entire settlements! Oh there's so many other games that offers similar challenges! In any of these games, I could easily spend weeks or even months exploring and building! Hell, in Fallout 4, after literally over a year of playing, I haven't even killed Kellogg yet and thus cued the arrival of the BoS because I was having so much fun just exploring the Commonwealth and finding/building/populating settlements. Heck, altho I have ALL the DLCs, I haven't yet even did much more than a quick sampling of Nuka-World or Far Harbor before going back to Boston, altho I know I will have many more months of exploring and building in those areas! ...After I'm done with the Commonwealth! EDIT: I've forgotten to include Atlus' other games like Persona 3 & 4, the Demon Summoner games, Digital Devil Sagas and others. They each have different variations of the explore, find and build mechanics, and in the case of the Persona games, have excellent stories to experience too! I have the DS and DDS games but haven't played them yet, because I'm not done with Persona 3 or the second playthru of P4 yet. Heck, I'm still playing Nocturne (yes I knew heading in that watching this vid could spoil the plot, BUT have already chosen the Freedom path, BUT I am not in the rush to complete the game ...so much fun in the three elements: exploring, finding and crafting. Not to mention, like in the Persona games, as an enthusiast in mythologies and legendry, I find it fascinating to look up the names of the demons/personas used in the games and learn their IRL historical backgrounds!
For those who are just diving into Nocturne when the remaster is coming out for the first time, do some research on the demons as some of them can evolve into other, much stronger demons when lvl up. Most of those demons will be a BIG help as you play the game. (looks at Momunofu/Arahabaki)
For me the TDE is also the most logical choice. Defeating the cycle is more important than playing into it. Also this is my favorite game of all time. I will never forget when I battled Lucifer alone in the dark at 3 am and I literally had to step away for a second and ask, girl what the hell is wrong with you. lol
Came to watch this because I'm almost done playing Shin Megami Tensei V Vengance and while it's an amazing game, in fact its become one of my favorite RPG's of all time, I didn't feel the need to want to play the predecessor. Thank you for the story insight!
I think the battle system in nocturne is one of the best battle systems in the entire megami tensei series. Persona 5 Royal is the only one I love more so far.
I never played the game, but I find Freedom Ending more meaningful, because it f*ck against that central theme of the price of creation. We seen how those who formed Reasons sacrificed their own humanity and becoming the worst version of themselves to create their world. Can you really accept doing the same thing as them by cast aside who you are, destroying the cycle of rebirth and everyone in it, just to kill a higher god? The Freedom Ending shows the opstimistic side of the former world worth living in and how Conception has worsen the survivors, so how can you accept such screw-up reality. Since it's the more conclusive ending in the original version, this may be the intended ending and theme for Nocturne before True Demon ending.
I will now proceed to metaphorically relate all of the different Nocturne endings to plumbing.
Scenario: You have a single leak in a pipe in your basement.
Demon Ending: You don't fix the leak. Your basement floods. Nice job, dickbutt.
Freedom ending: You patch the leak. The patch will break, eventually, but it buys you some time to get a better repair done.
Reason Endings: You get the pipe replaced… unfortunately, the replacement pipe has an even bigger leak in it.
True Demon Ending: You look at the leaky pipe, think to yourself "fuck this", rip out your house's entire plumbing system, and start building an outhouse.
This is surprisingly accurate
What a cool comment. You actually summarized it rather well.
True Demon ending is the only way things could end. This is mah swamp.
More like blow up the fucking house and go live in the woods
and this is why I pick freedom (I patch it up and call a plumber to fix it)
Loved your review you did a fantastic job
Oh my gah!
O my god the man himself
The man, the myth, the legend
@@ilovepersona5persona5isthe19 Persona 5 is so mid
@@lucabaker5563 Revelation 21:8. Every idle word.
"Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne would never take advantage of our innate gullibility."
little did grandpa know how lucifer would manipulate us.
We were so, SO naive, if only we knew............
Thank you, Shin Megami Tensei, Noctourne!
Where the hell was Kingdom Hearts 2 during Hurricane Katrina?!
Some lad wanders around a desert while his friends go insane.
You really feel alone and insignificant most of the game
It does the being alone thing better than many horror games, because it lets you feel it on a deepy conceptual and philosophical level.
Even during most of the endings you wind up being alone, despite potentially picking them to support one of your friends...
Musubi: Isamu is dead, he did not have the strength left to carry on, as he mentioned in the message he left you. Furthermore with Musubi you have just condemned the entire universe (within Nocturne's timeline / amala network) to be splintered off into individual, isolated worlds governed by every individual that will exist. A place where you alone are god and can do whatever you like, without being challenged or having received any different ideas from anyone else. Everyone else you knew will be spirited away into their own world. If you created people in your own world, they would be your own creation and come entirely from your input, your thoughts, your hopes, your dreams, your experiences - Offering nothing that you wouldn't already know or desire. That is it's own kind loneliness. And it also gives on perspective how lonely it would be to be a god of creation.
Imagine creating something or someone, but seeing only yourself reflected in what you have made. Knowing the answer to every question you asked another, because you knew how they would answer, as they were created in your image? You'd be thrilled at first to have a world in all your image, but brooding in your own soup eternally would turn hellish very quickly. Only a true narcist could stomache such an existence longterm.
Yosuga: Chiaki is dead. You and her clashed and one had to come out on top. This is how most of your encounters will go in the future. Social Darwinism and battle for survival at the forefront of every encounter. The laws of nature dialed up to eleven. Every word uttered by a strong person is a word meant to dominate and embed their position of power, every speech held by a person of weakness is deceitful as they fear for their lives and will seek to turn the tables. The world of Yosuga is a world of paranoia and betrayal, similiar to life inside a very influental political institution such as a parliament. One moment someone is your friend, the next they will grab whatever opportunity they have to get a leg up over you.
Furthermore it's implied that you would be the strongest and thus the creator of this world. The individual who can create and destroy at will. But you will have to defend this position at every opportunity from those who want your position. Sure allies will rally around you. But you will never be sure of whom you can trust.
As they say: It's lonely at the top.
Normal Demon Ending: The world slowly crumbles around you and dies. No life can be birthed, but what is present can be killed. The world will slowly empty itself around you, all persons and demons harvested for their kagutsuchi for the remaining who live. Eventually it would be only you left behind, would it not?
You have the blessing of Lucifer. However, what does that count for when you're stranded on a dead rock, with crumbling architecture and ruins to remind you of what once was?
The Freedom Ending, Shijima and True Demon Ending are the only endings where you seemingly get to team up in one way or another with someone. True Demon Ending is also debatable, because you are little more than a pawn to Lucifer. In relations with such one-sided power imbalances you feel left behind very easily.
So that's two endings where you don't get to be abandoned or isolated by the outcome of your decisions.
It's a great game to pull this conceptualization off.
Can we mention that not only is Dante one of the cheapest demons to recruit if you know about his coin, is already level 85 when he joins you, he can already use most of the moves he does in his boss fights, the level of his last boss fight has no random encounters because he killed or scared every demon in the area, toys with you in all his cutscenes, has all around good balanced states and he is still one of the better demons even though he never uses devil trigger. He is literally here just to flex on everyone and I love it.
Totally overrated and takes away attention from the meaning of the game. In my point of view crossovers are in general a lazytype of fanservice, which are initiated by company higher ups who don't understand the material they work with. Crossovers commonly cheapen a game's plot by breaking immersion. They also lead to story bending in weird ways because you now have to explain how two totally different franchises could be somehow connected.
Dante's antics fit into the DMC universe, where everyone is a showoff and cocky oneliners are considered a gesture of politeness. But they feel totally contrasted in Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, where philosophical question matters more.
Admittedly not totally the worst crossover I have seen, but still an immersion breaker.
Not a good inclusion into the game.
@@Mayhzon I see your point and do see why Dante would muddy a more serious deeper toned game but I like the fan service personally but I am bias as I am a fan of both DMC and Nocturne. That and some of the art designers for Nocturne did the design for Dante’s devil triggers forms and some of the enemies in DMC 3, it explains were he went after DMC 2 when he got stuck in hell and he’s a pretty good enforcer on your team. So I’m glad these two companies worked together in general. Once again I understand your point and how this cocky Devil hunter does throw the lore and themes of the game under the bus but I think it’s all in good fun and it’s dlc so you don’t have to buy him if you don’t want this contrast of tone. I hope I didn’t come off as disrespectful in any manner and my first comment was more so my opinion in this guest appearance and how true it was to his character and how good he is in terms of gameplay.
@@Mayhzon i respect your opinion but still you could play the version with raidou
@@MiguelAngel-go4ck Yea, I haven't played the raidou version but if I am correct, doesn't he play just like Dante but with different animations and such?
@@ubermaster1 yes except he has a better version of one attack everything else is the same
Something that I've always found interesting to note with Chiaki is the fact that, in a world not dominated by demons, brains are one and the same with power. The idea of having an intellectual edge in our world is something Chiaki was already adamantly perusing. The idea of gaining an edge through whatever means the world allows is one she's been following since the start of the game and it's a great logical through line for her character to bring it to its next step. Showing that, even back then, intelligence wasn't her goal. Power was.
+
Yeah, sadly she is just a product of the system, that teaches us that we have to be the best or be left in the dirt, but actually what we are actually being trained to be the best is another cog in the system, not to reach our full potential
This interpretation kinda ignores all the smart kids who get bullied by stronger kids in school.
@@embargovenom9948 what? No it doesn’t
@@owlflame Even without demons, many people rule by strength, not intelligence.
Isamu's Ideology: Mugen Tsukuyomi
Chiaki's Ideology: Every Anime/Movie Villains ever
Hikawa's Ideology: Amakusa Shirou Fate/Apocrypha's ideals
Teacher's Ideology: Kiritsugu Emiya's Goals for the grail
Lucifer's Ideology: Fuck all this shit Im going!
Bad examples
This is the first ever REAL SHIN MEGOOMI TENSEI Game ft Dante from dmc series
I mean... i still kind of like the tone and atmosphere of the first one better
@@amimm7776 Personally, I would love a remake of the first and second game with the Nocturne gameplay, or at least the Strange Journey Redux gameplay.
@@rickyrns1059 common Redux L
I’m glad you’re starting to branch out into SMT analysis cause I’ve really enjoyed your Persona videos. Keep up the great work!
The idea of TDE kinda falls apart when you realize that you can’t scrutinize whether anything Lucifer says is true or not.
While you think of him as a partner, he uses you as a pawn.
Thats why u gotta slam dunk him later
I mean... You can see all endings as you playing the pawn to someone. Reasons ? You fight to create someone else world. TDE ? You fight for lucifer. Neutral ? You fight for the teacher's (forgot her name) world view and nothing prevents God to show up and wreck your shit.
Looking at the game under that lens, the only ending where you're no pawn is the normal demon ending and the game overtly mocks you for choosing it.
Buuuut... If you look at the bright side of things, the fact that all those factions court the Demi-Fiend is a testament to his importance. That and the fact that the Demi-Fiend decides who is right in the end. He's less a pawn and more of a kingmaker here, nobody can win without him.
You fight as Lucifer's general. I would say you're less of a pawn and more of an assistant, or like a military comander.
@@professionalfangster1510 and considering you can beat lucifer it means if you really want to go against him you could but since you know the real threat is god himself is better having lucifer and all those demons on your side than against you
That depends on you. The way I see it, I use him as my pawn. For now our goals align but once that goal is met, well then it's free game right?
Disagreed with True Demon Ending being objectively the best -- there is absolutely nothing wrong with commodity. After going through what you do in the Vortex World, most people alive would choose to return to a semblence of what they once knew, in a heartbeat. Very few people would choose to forego it all and be thrusted into a neverending battle that they have no guarantee can even be **fought*, let alone won. That's why it's called True *DEMON** Ending -- because to choose it means that the pursuit of that violence and chaos defines the Demifiend you play as demonic, no longer human or bound by human needs and wants, whereas any of the other endings and the Reasons that gave them life are the few vestiges of humanity left. And there's nothing wrong with choosing humanity instead.
Same here, it is definitely the 'coolest' ending has the most content, but it can't even be canon as wasnt in the original release of the game and doesn't make much sense. In the true demon ending, you are not following your own will, you are following lucifer's and even the other demons and metatron are warning you about that.
@@wowwar2 The amount of people I've seen defend Lucifer is pretty wild to me. I'm not a law shill either, but Lucifer makes it pretty clear that he has been manipulating you and trying to turn you into the perfect pawn from the beginning. He sees that the MC has no Reason and decides that he can use him. He forces the magatama into you without your consent, hires Dante/Raidou to kill you, forces you into a battle royale with the rest of the fiends, and has no qualms killing you if you do not meet his standards. Ultimately you trade one higher power for another. The Freedom ending is my favorite because it rejects the ideologies of both sides and is the equivalent of telling Kagutsuchi and Lucifer to get bent. The MC had no reason because they *enjoyed the life they had and didn't have a particular desire to see any major change in it.* There's nothing wrong with just enjoying every passing day without being a doomer.
But the TDE is just *cool.* I feel like people try too hard to justify it. Abandoning humanity to become Lucifer's general after destroying Kagutsuchi and taking the fight to the Great Will is sick
@@ApexGale It's worth noting tough that IIRC if you choose Freedom Lucifer actually respect the decision of the Demi-Fiend, acknowledging that just like Lucifer himself he chooses to stand against the Great Will for his own beliefs, and he just warns him however that he challenge the Great Will and will certainly have to face it again in future and that he should be ready for when that will happen.
Make videos!
@@ApexGalei know this is a year late, but THANK YOU. these are my exact thoughts and im glad im not alone with them. freedom ending is the best ending thematically
All of the reasons in the game are formed under a flawed system, so they're bound to have issues in them as they cannot be unaffected by the system they exist in to begin with. TDE frees everything from this system, but at the cost of everything. I find that to be a pretty good representation of how fixing entire systems is difficult as too many things are already rooted into them, which means that trying to entirely remake one is bound to cause harm to a lot of things, which is why many end up being afraid of change despite wanting things to be better. This can apply to a lot of topics.
like.. politics 🤔
Bruh TDE is just demi fiend saying "Fuck all reasons,im going to be with lucifer"
TDE is Demifiend becoming the puppet Lucifer was manipulating him into becoming. It's divorcing his humanity and removing all choice completely.
M.omom
Ml.l.olmllm.o
the biggest difference between smt and persona are
smt is about the world and ideals
persona is more about the persons
Thats why SMT is greatly better imo. Persona feels very self absorbed and self importance driven
@@SpicyRess808 you mean that persona is inward storytelling and focuses on the protagonist while smt is outward focused and mostly focuses on whats going on around the story/world
@@SpicyRess808 Trying to say one is better than the other is objectively incorrect because they're so different at their very core
@@bubalackgaming8892 imo = in my opinion
Hikawa plan's is litteraly the "Human Instrumentality project" from Evangelion
True
Interesting. I came up with the same idea when I played it
@@sergiosalazar8702same
I don't how much relevance has but i always thought the manikins were also an important part of the game, Because of how cruel their fate was. Manikins were in my opinion the saddest part in the game creature that were created just for the sole purpose of being slaves and when futomimi one of the strongest of his kind tried to rebel against their destiny he failed miserably
Yeah I felt bad for the Manikins and was pretty happy with their progression within the story. Seeing them climb out of the sewers and create their own sanctuary city was inspiring and made me really want to side with them.
I was sorely disappointed I couldn’t help Futomimi or save him. While the Manikins were starting to lose sight of their original goal, I felt siding with them would have been my go to decision.
7:13 "you can't hold on one demon"
Me at level 67 finally taking the painful choice to fuse Daisojou even if it stopped getting skills and mutations at least 40 levels ago
That where people wrong, if you want to keep one demon, make sure it is the demon with no weakness, have at least 1 absorb/repel , and have to inherit at least 1 dyne outside his initial affinity outside light /dark, and carry buff/debuff before
I refuse to fuse daisouju even after hitting the last skill, even i make sure daisouju to inherit fog breath and ma-kaja skill, so when he reach the last skill he pivot from support damage to full support for TDE route
@@impalacrush2439 I mean daisouju is a big exception. He is naturally aimed towards healing and buff/debuff support due to him essentially having infinite MP. And you can do that regardless of level differences. The only issue he ends up getting his low HP which can lead to him being 1 shot way more often than anyone else in your party come late game.
You can also always just fuse a new daisouju with a sacficial fusion and give him Life Surge to make up for it in late game.
While the True Demon Ending conflicts with my beliefs, I still think that freedom by destroying the Universe isn’t true freedom. If you wan to live your life in constant fear of it getting destroyed, live life to its fullest. This may be a temporary fix, but like you said this will ultimately cause more problems.
It's a nihilistic ending.
i agree
More then that; it contradicts itself. You destroy God. Then what? There is a power vacuum. Who fills it? You/the demons. Now you/the demons dictate how the world is. All you did was take God's place. The cycle of creation and destruction is absolute. It's literally what makes resistance. All you're doing is changing the details so you're in power.
IceQueen975 Also, according to the Bible, Lucifer/Satan has no power to create. So they would destroy the world to stay in limbo since the only person who could create a new world(Demi-Fiend) gave up his reason and the only way to create this freedom. It literally makes 0 sense when you think about it.
@@IceQueen975 I like to think after Demi-Fiend does his thing with the tde when everything is said and done he relinquishes his own power and allows creation to continue without anything above it lording over how it should and shouldn't proceed. This because what would be the point of going through all the trouble of destroying God for true freedom of choice and will just to take his place and commit to the same rules that you rejected?
Glad to see other people talk about Nocturne, but I disagree when you start talking about the story and concepts of the game.
I think that there's a lot of characterization, the game sets it up so that the friends all go to this apocalyptic thing and once you're shown to have visibly changed they are unsure of what to do, and also the world ended. The character is shown through all the interactions and the final battle is showing how focused each character becomes with regards to their ideal world. They lament you not siding with them but the focus isn't your friendship, it's the idea of an ideal world that has a good general idea but brought to an extreme. By the end they aren't even the person you went to the hospital with both literally because of what the demonic sponsor does to them and by the process of the game. I think the characterization is just not overly announced. It's more subtle and realistic like SJ Catherine. I think you're expecting a Persona sort of narrative when this isn't meant to be about that. In this regard their actions are their characterization not you spending time with them.
You mention it having not much story but it's story is pretty rich it's just not a straight forward narrative like Persona 4.
I also don't think more content being in TDE makes it the better ending. It might make for more interesting gameplay or incentive to replay though. Overall it feels like you aren't really speaking an opinion based on experience, but echoing everything people generally say about the game. I don't think that's what you've done but it's how it feels since there isn't anything in the vid I haven't seen reiterated innumerable times by people approaching the game expecting something like Persona 3-5 or simply not taking the game and story telling style for what it is.
I honestly love Nocturnes approach to character development. as i feel like in any other rpg they would just force flashback scenes (or scenes you arent present for) that break the flow of the story in an attempt to make you understand their development, disrupting the atmosphere and immersion you have into the world, while nocturne instead has you interact with and go through the same things that your friends have experienced, except that you are now part demon, strong enough to hold your own against the demons and their influence, allowing you to understand their change in mindset without having to explicitly say it.
@@alfthetruelord I started replaying it now and in the first three hours you learn a lot about Chiaki and Isamu through their actions and interactions. You even see the dynamics of their friendship and how it's tested I find it irking when people say otherwise when the exposition is there.
@@Larrue i find it really common for people to call the story and characters meh, im prepared for an influx with the remaster
idk why people think story and characters need to be extremely obvious to be good.
my favorite thing about nocturne is how much it made me think during my first playthrough
Given that the ultimate point of the characters and relationships between them is to provide context for the Reasons presented.. I feel that even if the characters come across as flat, that may have been the point.
Needlessly distracting the Player with futile memories of their friends is simply biasing them towards their favorite side characters..
that's why the ones with real Reasons always end up being assholes when they get to the top. Giving the Players ample time to reject them
I think the point of being able to name these characters is that their supposed to be your friends, not Demi-Fiends, but in that same regard, you're supposed to take up the role of Demi-Fiend. This probably works better in Japan where the setting doesn't seem so alien, but in any of these games Tokyo is interchangeable for any city near you, it just always takes place in Tokyo since that is what the developers are most familiar with. The setting is as uniquely Japanese as it is modern.
With that in mind, there likely isn't a lot of need for characterization of Chiaki, Isamu, or Ms. Takao from the point of view of your average Japanese player. These are supposed to be people they know. For people wanting to play the canon "Yu Narukami" playthrough, their going to be disappointed when the world lacks the internal characterization they might expect from another title.
This, imo, is one of the strengths of main line MegaTen and its greatest asset.
Shin Megami Tensei drops you into a brutal world with personalities on every spectrum. Tells you if you want to survive you better convince your enemies to follow you. Forces you into uncomfortable situations and confronts you with a number of ideologies and then puts your response under a microscope. Rather than making you pick between reading a book or folding envelopes, you're deciding the fate of entire schools of thought, groups of individuals (human and otherwise) and even the universe itself. You aren't playing to see what wacky hijinks you and your friends get up to next, but, initially to survive, and then, eventually, to see who will stand between you and your ideal next. Will you give in to the peer pressure of your friends, if only to say you have a friend in this empty world? Or will you strive for an ideal you believe in, no matter the consequences?
Honestly i always assumed the lack of relationship between the characters was part of the characters. In the early game the interaction between chiaki and isamu always felt and read like theyre only close because they dont have anyone but you and youre only hanging out with them bc you dont hang out with others. I think it also reflects their Reasoning, Isamu wants to be left alone and Chiaki looks down on others, and you just support.
Gotta disagree on some points, especially the TDE. Nocturne is unique in that all of the Reasons count as Lawful since you’re going along with this vicious cycle of rebirth. The normal demon ending and the TDE and the Freedom ending all technically count as chaos/neutral endings, but to varying degrees.
Everyone and their mom loves the True Demon Ending because you get to “punch God in the face” and end the Amala Labyrinth multiverse forever, but my heart belongs to the Freedom route. It might not end in Demi-fiend going off to kill God like a total badass Antichrist, but it’s about choosing your own path and not being motivated by power or fear of existential consequences. You don’t sacrifice your humanity, you save everyone by undoing the apocalypse, and you’re still powerful enough to punch-out any god that wants to fuck with you.
Lucifer even supports your choice to follow your own path, and that’s badass in and of itself. Because you’re not his pawn, you’re his peer.
Fun fact: Hijiri comes back to life in the Freedom Ending. If he really is who we all suspect he is, then that means this ending is the first time in a long time he’s been allowed to live truly free.
Wow dude you commented the same thing here as in the 4th snake video
IIRC, Kagatsuchi even _specifically_ notes that you're making the same choice ol' Louis would in the Freedom ending
That's all well and good, but luci also explains that by taking the freedom ending you're putting yourself on God's shit-list. This means that God will punish for all eternity after you die just like what happened with Hijiri. At least with the TDE you have the power to take out God so he can't inevitably punish you.
@@Soooooooooooonicable except you still have your demifiend powers so not much different from tde other than you kept your humanity
@@Soooooooooooonicable I doubt TDE Demi-fiend has enough power to beat god, even with the help of Lucifer. If he did beat god, why does he randomly show up in DDS? God is literally the most powerful thing in the universe(excluding the Axiom, but that doesn't even really count). Only, like, four Megaten characters have actually killed god, and I doubt Demi-fiend is one of them.
Personally, I felt that the humans characters being underdeveloped was pretty diegetic : Every scene in the game is seen through Demi-Fiend's POV (except a few of Dante/Lucifer's scenes) so you naturally are not always there to see them be developed and grow, as if they were in your party or something. I still would've liked to see them be fleshed out more (especially Chiaki , best character) but it worked pretty great with the tone and pacing of the game.
@@hahmann Yes, but I think the context being so drastic could realistically incite rapid change in a person, unlike IRL people who don't always have to deal with prolonged and extreme situations.
Also, Megatens are always pretty vague about how much time passes in the plot (except Apocalypse lol)
@@hahmann I mean... Yes. Except here the 3 characters who change are:
Getting mad with knowledge for the journalists, it's not that surprising and could happen to anyone who discovers what he discovered in a blink of an eye.
Chiaki, who got beaten up, had to run away and lost an arm to fucking serial killer in a world full of monsters and traumatic events lurking around every corner, also... She is still quite similar to how she was when you first see her in the game.
And Izamu.... Gets beaten up and tortured, go to seek isolation and gets beaten up again, he also absorb a bunch of guys in a place where everyone wishes to be left alone and keep in check with his original self, a cool looking guy trying to keep apparences because he's actually a fucking coward.
@@MrLednard Sums it up nicely. Chiaki acted out of desperation after she got attacked by Sakahagi, Hijiri went mad with the knowledge he obtained, combined with his hatred for Hikawa, and not to mention, Isamu felt like he only would be safe if he isolated himself as much as he could due to what happened to him before
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 Not so much, Chiaki was not desperate, Chiaki was traumatized and came to the conclusion that she was at fault, because in this world, it's the survival of the fittest, which makes a whole lot of sense, since victims tend to blame themselves for stuff that happens. It's not desperation, itns trauma.
I disagree with the assertion that TDE is objectively the best ending. I think that Nocturne's themes are subtle and broad enough that the theme of the game changes based on what ending you get. The events of this game are interpretive, and the perspective you decide to take influences that interpretation. In regards to content, you can do the Labyrinth of Amala without doing TDE. That's what I did. I stopped at Beelzebub, but I still experienced 90% of the additional content. There are also plenty of side quests to do that aren't tied to endings (Mara, The Four Heavenly Kings, the Magatama, the Onis, etc.), so I don't think it's fair to say that more content=better ending.
And on the point of the characters, I think they have sufficient development, it's just off screen. We see the results of their development through their mental degradation throughout the game. They react to the Vortex World in believable ways, which as far as SMT tends to go. I understand wanting to feel the impact of the betrayals, but SMT IV proved that this dev team is not very skilled with that. I hope SMT V sticks to the Nocturne format. SMT is about ideology, Persona is about psychology. Mainline games are on a grander scale, so characterization does matter, but isn't the point.
Anyway, great video. I enjoyed your interpretation and discussion of the game even if I don't completely agree with it. I'm overjoyed that more people are playing Nocturne, and I hope your viewers follow your lead.
He's pretty fixated on solutions to problems that really have none. Credit my point of view comes from the series as a whole and the plot points found in smt 4 apocalypse, that it's a continuous cycle. Same shit different day. In that respect the only difference between reverting the world and going full demon changes is demifiends status in the cycle. He's still an adversary of the law faction. One outcome is him getting to live his life as it was a little longer before he has to get stuck in.
I did the same so right on! I went as far as Metatron, right when you’re complete the Labyrinth, before turning back. You still get to play the content.
Referring to how some wanted to see characters' reactions to being betrayed, what I find interesting about Nocturne's Reasons is that the creators are set up as not really caring what happens in the end, except for TDE. (Spoilers ahead)
This is best exemplified in the neutral ending where Demifiend simply recreates the world as it was in the beginning of the game; when everyone meets up again, they're all still friends and on good terms despite remembering everything from the Vortex World. Since this is pretty much the worst case scenario for everyone trying to recreate the world other than Demon ending (keep the Vortex World as the new world), I don't imagine they would care about the other results either (at least in the ones they could even meet up at all). They were simply beaten by the better fighter in the end, nothing more to it.
I will say that they develop the characters reason and experiences through the demons that you come across, especially the ones that follow the characters or had been in the same arc/area. All of which influence the characters mindset and it shows, yet not having to force any scenes of the characters in a way that might either feel out of place in a game like nocturne. Something i honestly prefer due to how the overall experience is.
I started to develop an interest in psychology after watching videos of Silverquill's. In a sense, knowing the fact that the persona games are built off that same thing interests me. The problems I have is accessibility because I don't have any playstation systems. The only persona game I legit can play is Persona 4 on Steam
These videos are my crack.
Same
Matador is indeed a memorable boss but we have to remember that there was a time where he was not in the game so calling him a necessary boss that teaches you about buffs is just how you have experienced it.
Yes. But he was put here as a mandatory boss and has the gameplay he has for a reason tho.
Yeah it's moreso the opposite in that the original Japanese release was actually lacking in the roadblock necessary to truly understand the gameplay's depth, that being Matador
The Maniax rerelease simply addressed a part of the original that was missing
I love having smt content to watch in my free time. We need more creators like you
Heh, "creators"
..do you think this video just came out of nowhere?
@@jaidens.g.1920 I just made a pun with the title of the video, chill XD. You know, "the price of creation", "creators". Just a little joke
I’d just like to point out one other big flaw with musubi, in order for Isamu to create his reason he has to rely on others (aka the Demifiend and the various demons that support him) which contradicts with the core idea behind the reason “a world of isolation” leading me to disagree with him even more.
In order to be alive he needs to relie on others. No baby can survive alone
Except no one who supports him actually helps him. They're pretty much.... Lying on the side of the arena telling him he's the best while he's doing all the work, like Yu-Gi-Oh characters.
He's (if you desire) helped by the Demi-Fiend because the Demi-Fiend chose to help him, he did not ask for it, and he ain't rewarding the Demi-Fiend because the Demi-Fiend did nothing but to follow his own free will.
He also needs a Demonic Sponsor... Because he HAS to follow the rules of the Vortex World, he can't just make his own reason out of thin air. Because his reason does not exist yet.
Creating his reason contradict with his reason because the Vortex is a world where is reason does not and cannot exist, which is why he wants to create his reason, unlike Chiaki who pretty much decided to do Vortex World 2: Electric Boogaloo
@@MrLednard Yeah that's something i still don't really get, what is the difference between chiakis ideal world and the vortex world at all?
@@brotbrotsen1100 Well, you see how sometimes you go in vacation and wish to never come back because the place is so nice ? Well, that's Chiaki in the Vortex. Except she lost an arm and was like "This is fine."
You see how the teacher could not recreate the world because she could not formulate a reason ? Well, Chiaki said "Fuck that", and copied the Vortex world, because in retrospective, she rather quite liked it. And it's not hard to understand, the moment she understood the rules and regained her spirit, she adapted and next thing she knows there is nothing that can stand in her way, except for one tattooed asshole wandering the desert in shorts, why would she change the world if she litteraly has the power to rule it ?
@@brotbrotsen1100 well, if she cuts the actual demons out of it it'll just be a slight variation of our world.
From the way the game presents itself, it reminds me of Fallout New Vegas. Seeing characters come with their own reason as to how mankind should operate is very similar to what each faction in New Vegas wants for the world
Mr house gang for life
I recently replayed Nocturne and got the true demon ending, then they announced the HD remaster lol. Definitley one of my favorite games. A great masterpiece
27:21 In the Freedom ending it is not so much putting a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches as you the Protagonist becoming responsible for your original World with the powers you kept from your time in the Vortex World.
The time for the lion has gone, it is time for the child.
There is something fitting in Hikawa's lines "I was not the creator' I was the baptist. I was merely sent to prepare the way for you--the new creator." in this Nietzschean game. Just a sense I get.
Reminds me *heavily* of Jesus and John the Baptist.
Isamu's Reason and the world he wants to create is something that, at one point, would have really resonated with me. For years I was convinced that escapism from the inevitable nihilism of life was the correct path. It took a long time and many hard knocks for me to realize that accepting life for what it is ultimately leads to the happiest and most fulfilled outcome.
Yes, death is inevitable. As is pain, loss, and hardship. But being consumed and defined by the fear of these things is truly what causes most suffering. Learning how to stay in the present and looking at the brighter side of things is definitely the healthier option.
For me, what's important to living a life you can be content with is finding balance in… everything. We have aspects of one part of life that we need to learn to live with, but we must still understand that as humans, we are bound to be imperfect in the way we attempt to do so. Our ultimate goal as a species is to grow, develop, and achieve, but contrary, there will never be a point at which we reach our limit on how far we can go. We keep making progress, but no matter how many goals we set for ourselves, there will never be an end to it all. That is until we are forced to end it all at some point or another. Our goal as humans… to make the most of what we *can* until the end of all things. We will try our best, and it's up in the air if it pays off or feels worthwhile, but no matter how much or how little we do, eventually, everything stops, and we obtain the result of our efforts, in whichever way it occurs depending on faith. To live the _best_ life is to balance what you can do, what you want to do, what you should do, and what you need to do. I repeat, it won't be a perfect balance, but one aspect will always lead to another and vice versa. For now, what matters is living, maintaining our survival, using the life that we are provided with because of this, and doing… something, literally anything with it, so long as it comes with a reason, be it right or wrong, good or bad.
We exist to stay existent for as long as we can be, and by considering the inevitability of the end, we exploit what we have to our heart's content.
Thank you for listening to my unnecessarily long… list of words.
Why oh why do I put more effort into a TH-cam comment reply related to a 20-year-old PS2 game than my English courses?
just started Nocturn a few days ago and after playing through most of the game I feel like no matter what actions I take, I will still end up working towards the freedom ending knowing that it's just a temporary fix to a grander problem. all the other options are either flawed by their nature or are promoted by people I don't want to work with; including the True Deamon Ending where you embrace liberation through anarchy/rebellion against god. The Freedom ending at least recognizes humanity's capacity for autonomy and acknowledges the hope that humanity can make the world better than when we found it. Hope being the keyword here as all other options operate on a complete lack of hope or trust. To me, it doesn't matter how perfect you think your ideal world is or how better off things will be in it, without hope there's only stagnation and fear, without trust there is only conflict and greed. That's why I'm favoring the freedom ending because it provides hope and where there's hope there's life.
agree 100%, also as a Christian it kinda feels weird working with satan
why did you spoil the game before actually playing it. wtf
Hey man, your videos on the persona series were great, so I'm really looking forward to this! I've been tempted to get into the largest SMT franchise as a whole, so this is gonna be a great starting point.
So thanks for your hard work, and sweet video essays!
Loved this video analysis. Yeah I agree. I feel like Nocturne's difficulty is a little overblown. It is challenging but honestly every boss battle is like a gym leader battle in pokemon. As long as you have the right team you don't necessarily have to grind for 10,000 hours to beat a boss. Nocturne to me is a lot like dark souls where you can't be upset when you "Game Over". Failure comes with knowledge you can analyze to help you out on your next try.
Would you consider SMT Devil Survivor for the 3DS? Those were fun and choice heavy
Quicker than I expected. Nyarly’s no buff/debuff run made me like the game even tho I haven’t played it lol.
Gotta get that hd remaster then ✊
@@louvi5893 yessir
Me to
As a person who was beat it, hope you have fun when you pick it up!
@@tonyfrostedflakes9042 👌
Thanks!
Great video, always fun seeing people tackle Matador. Good discussion on the endings as well! Be prepared for routine request for further smt reviews!
Thanks for watching! These videos take a long time to make, so if you'd like to show some support. Please consider checking out my Patreon!
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Only just stumbled across your channel a few weeks ago but loved your videos on P3 and P4. P5 was my first experience with this franchise so these videos are super interesting.
I personally agree with the freedom ending as I think people should decide who they should be and while there will be bad people it’s the polices job to lock em up or people ridicule them for their actions... basically I agree with the freedom ending
The demon ending does nothing. Why pick it? You destroy the whole world just to prove a point. I ain't a law supporter, but the great will is part of the natural order, the natural order must not be changed.
Best persona yutubers that change my life and help develop love forbpersona games
You should review the .hack//series
Great analysis! Well done. You can tell it's one of my favorite games of all time since I've been using Hito as my avatar for 15 years. :)
32:15
This game is simply the best for the fact that EVERYTHING you do doesn’t exactly feel right but it doesn’t feel wrong either.
In the begin of the game just with a few dialogues and attitude you already can see the type of personality of the characters.
I don’t think that’s enough tho
High school boy loses his hoodie and sets out on a journey to find it. He slightly recalls something about demons and the end of the world but lets be honest, he was only half paying attention cause he just wants his damn hoodie.
Spoiler: he never finds it
Hey! It's that game with Dante!!
From Devil May Cry series'
I love Aradia's whole "thing." That weird Silent Hill/Jacob's Ladder twitchiness always makes them seem somehow even more "other" than all of the demons and things running around the Vortex World.
I'm glad I found this channel.
This was a really cool analysis/review
this is my favorite SMT. this games makes me realise that turn based isnt dead. back then after playing persona 4 i think there isnt that much great turn based rpg that enjoyable so i play other genre(online mmorpg). after found this gem. i really like turn based rpg again.
the most enjoyable thing for me is self insert to demi fiend and decide to go TDE on hard mode(yes my first SMT is nocturne with hard mode). the ending is really sooooo damn good that makes me want to play other SMT
I’ve always felt that Nocturne is less a traditional JRPG in how it presents its story, but more akin to a religious or philosophical text, sharing a handful of parables with the intent of sharing a theoretical idea or point.
Hey man loved this video. Been loving all your megaten content and can’t wait to see more.
I've heard friends call the Freedom ending the "Reincarnation" ending.
All paths have their pros and cons, for me the real lesson is that there will never be an end to dispute on what is the best ideology one chooses upon themselves.
Reuben Langdon came in to voice Dante in the remaster. The DLC was totally worth it.
Damn, another video, not that Im complaining though. Great videos as always, getting me even more excited to try it on rerelease.
0:47 What do you mean unlike most games? It’s SMT! The apocalypse is just Tuesday.
I really don't get much of the difference apart from SMT touching subjects and questions in relation to irl religions and beliefs with the psychology involved.
@@ciphymasterofmedia9104 Difference from what? The apocalypse?
ths is certainly the msot extreme apocalypse in the series though
@@sarafontanini7051 arguably, the White ending in IV is more definitive of an apocalypse
Regarding the Freedom Ending: It also seems to indicate that at least some of you have memories from your time in the Vortex World (at the very least, you and your teacher do). With these experiences, it paints a hopeful picture that you and your friends can possibly change the way the world turned out for the better, armed now with stronger wills and bonds because of it; Your teacher even says as much, stating that you've given her hope for the world, which she previously didn't have.
That's why I love the Freedom Ending. It definitely has problems, but it comes off as the one good ending where you've taken back the futures of all mankind and given all of humanity a second chance. Even Lucifer seems to approve, as he himself chose the same thing eons ago.
I also believe Lucifer warns you because you've destroyed the Kagutsuchi and stopped the cycle in the Freedom Ending. You didn't revert time to before the Conception, but instead recreated the world as it was before.
While the True Demon Ending might have content, you can actually complete all of its content on any other ending, so long as you don't go down the elevator after Metatron. Additionally, it's basically the same as the Demon Ending, except you end up Lucifer's Lackey. Essentially, it's just a trumped up Chaos Ending.
The cycle doesn't actually stop with the freedom ending as God still has eyes on the reborn world. It's as it said a temporary fix
@Arsene Lupin The cycle has definitely stopped; you killed Kagutsuchi, the one who enabled it, so that seems to indicate it has been halted, at least for now. There's no indication in the ending that another conception can occur, and Kagutsuchi states that your ideal world is one opposed to rebirth.
You are right, that even Lucifer mentions that YHVH will eventually come to punish you for it, and presumably try to reinstate the cycle, but his insistence that you hold onto the strength you've found so you can be ready for him always seemed to indicate, to me, that you can possibly see that path of thorns to the end, and keep the world you chose out of the cycle.
The characters are not being hypocritical tho.
They are trying to build a new world respecting what they have come to believe in. They are just adapting to this world they live in in order to make what they think is a better world, it is shown through the few characterization of each character:
Hikawa sacrifices your teacher regardless of her will, because in his world, no one as his own will, everyone aims for the same goal. Better even, when you fight Ahriman, he realizes what his world means: he shows a sadistic nature by turning the fight into a game, but mid-fight he realizes that he cannot do that, as it does not follow his own worldview, so the fight becomes a regular boss fight. His actions are cold and calculated and tho his genius is to thank for everything that happens, he shows no unnecessary pride and do what he think must be done to achieve that. Also, he is the worst choice because he is just a communist.
Chiaki learned from the world, she encourages the strong to rule, but do not discourage the weak from trying: when she lose an arm to one of the easiest boss in the game, she blames none but herself, she's at fault, she's the weak one here. But she does her best to improve, she comes to seek power and become the strongest, beside you, as shown when you follow the other 2 reasons and she kills Hikawa and Izamu if you follow them. Better, when you actually follow her, unlike the other 2, she actually challenges you, because only the strongest is worthy of making her reason come to life, and if she loses, she dies, but it's of no importance, because her reason will live on, because weither it is you or her, the strongest decided so. Ironically, she is also the easiest of the 3 Reasons and summon 2 guys to fight alongside her.
And finally, Izamu is... A special case, you see, his reason is not born from his desire alone, it is the wish of about everyone in the Amala Network, the man who wishes for solitude is the one with lots of faces all around his body, but more importantly, whenever you go in Amala's Network, no Demon will join you, for various reasons, not carring is one, but every ghost you mean wishes to be left alone, like the nurse who tells you "I'll heal you if you get out", and his desires reflect that. But making his reason... He's doing it alone, yes, he have Noah, but because the Vortex World is forcing him to have a sponsor to achieve his reason, yes, there are people following him, but unlike Chiaki or Hikawa, he is not using them and they do not follow his ordees, they are but followers following him to never have to follow anyone ever again. Better, when you follow him, he is the only one not to give you a Demon ally as a reward for helping him, because you are not helping him, you are cooperating with him to follow your own desire of creating his reasons, he have no reasons to reward you because you are doing this for yourself and the birth of his reason is the reward. Izamu is a walking contradiction, but it's because the law of the Vortex World are the complete opposite of what he wishes to create: a world were people need to cooperate.
Honestly being contradictory and hypocritical arguably adds to their characters even more. Them being true to themselves or having a well thought out Reason isn't the point. It's meant to communicate that for all of their flaws, they were able to survive, adapt and eventually thrive even in the extreme conditions of the vortex world, and they did so in huge part by abandoning the morality of the previous world. They're arguably more badass than Demifiend because they didn't get a head start from Lucifer, and were able to come up with their own reason, something that Demi wasn't able to.
@@leonardocarvalho7306 I mean... It's not that the Demi-Fiend is unable to come up with a reason, it's the case for the teacher tho, it's that the Demi-Fiend cannot come up with a reason, because he was "cursed" by Lucifer.
Speaking of the teacher, she would be the truly hyprocitical and contradictory one, she got tired of the old world and wanted a better world, brought a worse one and was unable to find a new world to build even though everything was handed to her on a silver plate.
I definitely disagree with them not being hypocritical.
Hikawa, for all his talk of a world without emotion or passion, has a lot of both at times.
Chiaki never develops her own strength and only borrows/steals from everyone else.
Isamu wants a world where no one interferes with your own world, yet is more than happy to have you interact with his plans so long as it benefits him.
There’s nothing wrong with their hypocrisy though. It shows that even though they paint a perfect picture of paradise (in their own vision), it is still inherently flawed by being founded on contradictory principles.
@MrLednard Fantastic comment! Though you got a detail wrong: Chiaki does not kill Hikawa when you side with him, in fact, he is the only Reason representative who lives to see the World he envisioned come to fruition. Also, calling Shijima communism is pretty misleading but it's probably just a joke I'm not getting. The whole "Chiaki, Isamu and Hikawa are hypocrites" mentality only really exists because of the new content added in the Maniax rerelease. True demon is the most popular ending, so people go out of their way to make the others look worse.
this video sold Nocturne for me. thank you man!
Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry Series
Beat Nocturnal and got the true demon ending last month. Easily one of the best jrpg games I've played. It's not as hard as people say it is. I literally over leveled for Matador only to completely wash him. Funny that the memes made him seem so scary and I beat him first try lol. Only hard boss that had me worried was Metatron
It is not the combat, it is the dungeons. They are a pain in the ass.
There are two kinds of people in the world people who love Dante and liars
I've never seen one of your videos before nor have I ever played this game & yet I dropped a like within the first 35 seconds. I could just tell this video essay would be good lol
Good video Nam, I like it a lot.
Good job man, I haven't played Nocturne that much, I've heard a great deal about it. Now it really has my curiosity.
If you are ever going to make another smt video, I highly suggest Digital Devil Saga
It's great, one of the best Megami tensei games. Just don't play hard mode, it sucks.
what are you talking about spongedude? hard is where most fun is at. Money might be the only problem but proper resource management is all you need tbh
Something I never see people bring up about Musubi is that social isolation can drive people insane, it’s how a lot of criminals are born, in fact. At some point I didn’t think Musubi was all that bad of a reason, but after learning about shit like I mentioned before, I realized that there aren’t really any winners with it.
Thanks for the video, enjoyed it a lot as a long time fan of the series!
Hmm... it seems like all of the endings are “bad,” but Isamu’s feels the most docile compared to the others.’
Sure no one will learn anything when living in their own personal bubble... but why does that matter?
I get that you ever won’t change as a person, but why would you need to at that point?
What’s so bad about being happy in solitude?
You’re already happy. Who gives a shit anymore?
Well what does being happy mean if there is never any hardships
Even Isamu’s is flawed inherently, because even though it’s the most passive and docile, I don’t personally think it would leave you contempt, life is going through hardships that define who we are. The Matrix actually kinda has a similar plot point, where the first version was a pure paradise, but it failed, and even End of Evangelion has Shinji reject instrumentality for similar reasons, we need other people and that life is meant to be with both pain and joy together. And as people we need to have a sense of choice, or at least the illusion. So while Isamu has the best intentions, he’s essentially taking a way a core part of humanity.
@@TigoODonnell
That’s fine and all, but I’d rather take that than fearing for my life every day, vanishing into The Void, or sacrificing all life to allow the Prince of Evil to wage his dumbass war.
Unless we wanna take the ending where it’s: “Eh, let it be someone else’s problem,” route.
Point is: I never said Isamu’s ending was “good,”
so I don’t know why y’all are telling me it’s flaws; I already know the flaws.
Y’all don’t need to tell me that the negatives define the positives in life.
Y’all don’t need to tell me if he’s right or wrong.
Y’all don’t need to tell me how living a life of solitude is a hollow life.
We all know... but this game doesn’t allow a “happy ending.”
Isamu’s is just the one with the least blood on his hands.
@@Deoxys_Used_Mimic Best Ending is when you tell everyone to fuck off and doom the world, because fuck God, fuck Lucifer, fuck your teacher, fuck Izamu, fuck Chiaki, fuck the journalists, fuck the big glowy Moon in the sky.
This message was brought to you by the Manikins gang.
God I love your content it's very thought provoking and informative but it has humour too haha keep it up
14:10 10/10 Editing!!! Other TH-camrs take notes 📝 at this
Your videos are good, man. Ty
does destroying the universe prove that God isn't necessary, though? from what i can tell, the True Demon ending proves the exact opposite-that humans cannot keep creation stable, and if given the chance they would cast aside their humanity and commit horrible acts for the sake of attaining power.
No it does not.
Destroying the Universe is an act to show God he has limits.
The Demon Ending aims to prove that humans wishes for freedom and are ready to side with those that can help them, casting aside their "humanity" which they already had to do in order to follow the Great Will's will, see how Chiaki and Izamu turned out, or all the shit Hikawa does.
Power is not a goal, but a mean, because you need power to obtain what you want, which is why everyone: Hikawa, Izawa, Chiaki, your teacher, the Manikins, the journalist, wants the Demi-Fiend to join them, because he is the one gifted with power.
@@MrLednard it's not a gift. it's a damn curse. and the way you put it makes the TDE even *worse.* you're literally saying that Lucifer and the Demi-Fiend destroyed ALL OF REALITY and EVERYONE IN IT just to prove a goddamn point?! keep in mind that it wasn't God who caused the conception to happen-it was Hikawa. God Himself only ever sends metatron to stop the Demi-Fiend from throwing his soul away, and Kagutsuchi for all intents and purposes isn't truly evil.
@@christopherbravo1813 No. It's a trade. You are gifted the power needed to survive, to choose, but in exchange you cannot create.
No, you just understand... I dunno what but something else. They doomed the universe to go against God's Will, because the concept of the Conception in itself is dreadful: just take what happened to every human, all dead, some turned into powerlessel, choiceless Manikins, some turned into ghosts, Some sacrificied, 3 turned into pretty much demons and at least 3 driven mad by their adventures in the Vortex World (I'm counting Hijiri, even though he's a Manikin from the start). And even if it's Hikawa's action that set up the Conception in motion, the Great Will made it a necessary evil, because each world is created with a set amount of power, in other words, it's an infinite cycle which will always end with a Vortex world and humans fighting to get their wishes in an empty world full of demons. That or the world will just go bye-bye. God is responsible for what happens because he created a flawed system which inevitably results in a dog eats dog world.
I never said Kagutsuchi was evil, I dunno where you get that from.
And Metatron is not send by God, Metatron acted by himself.
@@MrLednard if that's supposed to be a "trade", then it is not a fair one at all. also, trades involve the willingness of BOTH PARTIES. one person can't just give you something and take something else you have without your permission. that's robbery.
while it is true that every human dies in the conception, they are all meant to be brought back once the new world is created. Also, most of the information we have regarding the Conception comes from a biased and untrustworthy source. God may not have intended for the Conception to occur in such a way.
also, the reason why I mentioned Kagutsuchi is because Kagutsuchi is an avatar of the Great Will (God). and where is it stated that Metatron was acting on his own?
12:47 No, I think the Mature rating is because of Pretta's dangling bits
Yay although I thought you would wait until the remake
I was debating waiting for the remaster, but considering we don't have a concrete date for the localized version, I decided to just stick with the one I'm used to.
@RPG Games It's labelled under remaster.
Now featuring the wacky woohoo pizza man from Devil May Cry
Yosuga for life. Was the first ending I went for and I don't regret it. Aslo it's NOT hypocrisy. She was strong of BELIEF. And though that inner strength she gained physical strength. So there
Didn't she only get that strength because Gozu Tennoh gave it to her?
@@wooshmeifugay8719 he gave her his strength because of her strength of will
I treat Yosuga as a reshuffle, I didn’t like the reasons given to me but Yosuga’s constant conflict and turbulence meant that it was most likely to result in a second conception where new reasons would be made
Nocturne is my favorite game and it was really cool to see someone do an analysis on it.
I recently finished watching a playthrough of P5R, and seeing post-apocalypse Shibuya was a real shock
For the best ending, change the word back before the whole shebang happens!
Snooze button ending
One of the things I like about Nocturne is, there isn't a good ending.
Hear me out, the Reason endings aren't particularly great, outside of *maybe* Isamu's. The demon ending just leaves you stranded in a wasteland.
Now your probably thinking 'what about the Freedom ending?' That sounds like a good ending on paper, but is it really? Sure, you returned everything back to normal, reviving your friends in the process, but there's a major flaw with it. That flaws name just so happens to be *record scratch*. He is *not* happy that you rejected Conception. Even worse, Conception can and will happen again.
And that leaves the True Demon ending. While ending the cycle sounds all great and stuff, do you know what you do in the process? You prevent the creation of any new world, ever again. You just wiped out a whole universe, and everything that was in it, save demons, of course.
But by then it doesn't really matter does it? You're a full blown demon now after all. All that's left is to march on Heaven's gate, to end this once and for all.
I’ve seen so many people over the years focus too much on the solitude aspect of Musubi, to the point that they disregard the creation aspect completely and as a result misinterpret the Reason entirely. So I’m glad he got it right.
Speaking of Musubi from a purely selfish standpoint the ending is great. Even in our own reality the opportunity to create a personal utopia closed off from outside interference would be far too tempting to pass up for most people I imagine.
But Therein lies the problem with Musubi, it is inherently selfish, a dream world for the individual but only the individual.
If you want the best ending for yourself it doesn’t get much better than Musubi in terms of potential.
But if you want the best ending for humanity as a whole, it can’t be Musubi.
One thing to know is that the true Demon ending is that they went off to try to kill god...key word TRY. There was no word of a success or fail.
@@johnryu2317
Kind of a late reply here, but the main aspect I feel makes the ending even better is the fact that we don't know what happens in the end.
I look at the Freedom ending like this, Demi-fiend and his friends were unfairly f*cked up by the entire SMT3 situation. It turned friends into enemies and ruined everyone's lives. I choose the ending which gives Demi-fiend back the life he had, with his friends. Screw the reason crap, seek friendship.
Is it possible that all of the Aradia incarnations flee from universes destroyed via TDE,
if so, is Aradia symbolic of a cancer within the Amala universe that subsequently consumes everything?
Moreso, what is the nature of time and causality across Amala?..
if by defining TDE as true canon, is the players perspective of it the first TDE, but because Amala lacks a strictly direct or one-dimensional flow of time, is it possible that 'future' TDE evens effect past actions?
Does Aleph ever actually talk?
The differences between Nocturne and the Persona series are deliberate. Nocturne is all about making a CHOICE, while the Persona series is about dealing with the results of the choices thrust upon you. Also, each SMT game has an individual identity.
Nocturne: Choosing your reality
P2: How perceptions alter reality
P3: Death
P4: Growing into Adulthood
P5: Truth versus "Reality"
Digital Devil Saga: Free will
Digital Devil Saga 2: The ends never justify the means & sacrifice
Devil Summoner 2: Passage from one Generation to the next.
DemiKids: Balance.
SMT games are intellectually deep games when you peer beneath their surface. Always involving philosophically and religiously deep concepts while making them fun
@Aria Khalaji I honestly can't see how. It isn't Dostoevsky or Shakespeare, but the story has an engaging plot. While it may not be the best of SMT's work, it is also certainly much more thought out than the majority of cookie cutter games that are mass produced by a lot of mainstream, or even indie, game makers.
And then there’s Altus’s other series, Etrian Odyssey, which is 100% all about the dungeon crawling
I'm baffled by some of the self-contradictory statements being made here. You say the difficulty of the dungeons has been overstated ... because the only challenge comes from the puzzles and combat encounters ... which are part of the dungeon difficulty? You say that the characterization is weak so that you don't feel anything before fighting them ... even tho every character's Reason exposes their own inner hypocrisies and failures, and the fact that you have to bear witness to each of your friends' slow decline into madness before you put them down like rabid dogs? You say that the True Demon Ending is the best ending ... because you have to do the most content to get it? It's not necessarily a bad video, but I think you need to examine what you're trying to say before rambling off a script. As it is, the vid seems to just echo a lot of opinions about Nocturne that you can already find echoing through the internet, but treats them as if these takes are somehow new and different.
Also, please keep in mind that the original writers for Nocturne did not, in fact, work on the Maniax version, which makes a lot of the story revelations in the Amara Labyrinth a bit more ... suspect. I mean, key point here, everyone parrots the notion that Aradia is a "false god" ... because that's what the Lady in Black said, right? The Lady in Black ... who works for Lucifer ... who wants the Demi-fiend to descend to the lowest level of the Labyrinth ... as though he has some sort of ulterior motive ... to perhaps not be completely truthful with him.
Food for thought.
I said Nocturne's difficulty OVERALL has been overstated, I did not specify dungeons. Even so, just because I say that the main source of difficulty comes from a certain aspect, that doesn't mean I contradict the point I made about the game not being as hard as people say it is. I can say "The main challenge of Persona 2 innocent sin is in it's combat" but that doesn't mean that the game itself is hard. That just means that the hardest part of that game is the combat system. But that's not me explicitly saying it's difficult. I even say in the video that I think Nocturne's dungeons are relatively straight forward, I never said they were difficult. That's not a contradiction.
I also don't understand what's so confusing about me saying that the True Demon Ending is the best ending because it offers a lot of quality content. It's a very straightforward point. This route offers the best content in the game in my eyes while answering a lot of questions about the world itself. So I like it because of its exclusive content and how it expands on the story. Not a contradiction.
I don't understand how the game having new writers for the new content makes it "Suspect" it's still SMT Nocturne, so why should I be suspicious of any information? Everyone says Aradia is a false god because that's the information that's provided by the game. Lucifer actually never lies to the player at all and actually tells you what will happen if you reach the bottom of the Amala Labyrinth when you finish the 4th Kalpa. He's very open about his plan at that point and it's up to the player to chose to finish the dungeon or not.
I don't need to have a "Hot take" to make a video on something that I like. People share the same opinion that I do? Well, that's cool, it doesn't matter to me. I wanted to talk about Nocturne because my subscribers wanted me to talk about mainline SMT. So I said how I feel about this game. I don't treat my opinions as if they're different. I just say what I honestly feel. And all it takes is one look at this comment section to see that there are people who disagree with what I say.
I think the most frustrating part of the dificulty would be that because you have to be careful with your skills and party, not having the option if choosing skills when fusing demons just feels time consuming and not really tactical
SMTV Mini Spoiler....
I like to think that with the end of True Demon Ending from Nocturne, with the will to kill God, connects with the premise of SMTV, that God now is dead, and the power is there for someone to take it.
I think the lack of personality comes from before and after thier transformation. They talk with you a lot more before, but after they become more Demon like, not half demon like you but more distant.
It could be even you are different to them, none of them stay with you and instead move through the demon filled vortex world without you. the powerless humans stay away from the half-demon and friend who could protect them.
19:16 what I find interesting is that the angels sided with Chiaki. When you think about it, it could be that they wish to use her Reason to ensure nobody can ever surpass or defeat YHVH. That thing that happened last time with some asshole just... shooting and slashing him to death.
Yeah. It's the most chaotic of the three reasons, but all reasons are technically lawful and fall within YHVH's plan
I agree, Nocturne is a very hard game (as in being challenging to play and progress). However, that being said, I also enjoy taking the time to explore the weird and wonderful world that is created in the game, relish the challenge of finding and recruiting new demons, have fun discovering the combinations needed to create or gain access to new demons. Exploring, Finding, Crafting; all 3 in one game!
That's why I enjoy games like Dark Cloud (both 1 & 2) with its crafting system and the literal world building mechanics, many of the Final Fantasy games (in particular, 7 with the finding and combining Materias, 8 with the drawing of both magic and Summons AND junctioning both to develop more powerful characters, 10 with the sphere grid and its attendant process for character development, 10.2 in which finding spheres and the use of the Garment Grid is vital for advancing the characters' potential, and 12 in which the choice of equipment and skills (called in the game licenses) has direct effect on the characters' development).
And then there's Fallout 4 where ye can buuld LOTS of things from equipment to entire settlements! Oh there's so many other games that offers similar challenges! In any of these games, I could easily spend weeks or even months exploring and building!
Hell, in Fallout 4, after literally over a year of playing, I haven't even killed Kellogg yet and thus cued the arrival of the BoS because I was having so much fun just exploring the Commonwealth and finding/building/populating settlements. Heck, altho I have ALL the DLCs, I haven't yet even did much more than a quick sampling of Nuka-World or Far Harbor before going back to Boston, altho I know I will have many more months of exploring and building in those areas! ...After I'm done with the Commonwealth!
EDIT: I've forgotten to include Atlus' other games like Persona 3 & 4, the Demon Summoner games, Digital Devil Sagas and others. They each have different variations of the explore, find and build mechanics, and in the case of the Persona games, have excellent stories to experience too! I have the DS and DDS games but haven't played them yet, because I'm not done with Persona 3 or the second playthru of P4 yet. Heck, I'm still playing Nocturne (yes I knew heading in that watching this vid could spoil the plot, BUT have already chosen the Freedom path, BUT I am not in the rush to complete the game ...so much fun in the three elements: exploring, finding and crafting. Not to mention, like in the Persona games, as an enthusiast in mythologies and legendry, I find it fascinating to look up the names of the demons/personas used in the games and learn their IRL historical backgrounds!
it looks like the creators of the game had some really unique visual ideas, haven't seen a t-shirt made of ghosts before
The freedom ending explains how Dante escaped hell from DMC2 and continue to DMC4
Can’t wait to get all the endings i never got in the remaster
Puzzle boy is the best part of the game
Excellent analysis about the story's themes and philosophy
Great vid, great game keep it up 👍
For those who are just diving into Nocturne when the remaster is coming out for the first time, do some research on the demons as some of them can evolve into other, much stronger demons when lvl up. Most of those demons will be a BIG help as you play the game. (looks at Momunofu/Arahabaki)
There's also the pixie thing...
I fused away pixie before it became high pixie 😔 but I’ve kept it’s genealogy, it’s currently a parvati
when i play smt3 i name the two friends after my irl friends and fill in the back story blanks from their lives
For me the TDE is also the most logical choice. Defeating the cycle is more important than playing into it.
Also this is my favorite game of all time. I will never forget when I battled Lucifer alone in the dark at 3 am and I literally had to step away for a second and ask, girl what the hell is wrong with you. lol
Came to watch this because I'm almost done playing Shin Megami Tensei V Vengance and while it's an amazing game, in fact its become one of my favorite RPG's of all time, I didn't feel the need to want to play the predecessor. Thank you for the story insight!
I think the battle system in nocturne is one of the best battle systems in the entire megami tensei series. Persona 5 Royal is the only one I love more so far.
Aight, you got me. I think I’m gonna pick this up for switch
Same
I never played the game, but I find Freedom Ending more meaningful, because it f*ck against that central theme of the price of creation. We seen how those who formed Reasons sacrificed their own humanity and becoming the worst version of themselves to create their world. Can you really accept doing the same thing as them by cast aside who you are, destroying the cycle of rebirth and everyone in it, just to kill a higher god? The Freedom Ending shows the opstimistic side of the former world worth living in and how Conception has worsen the survivors, so how can you accept such screw-up reality. Since it's the more conclusive ending in the original version, this may be the intended ending and theme for Nocturne before True Demon ending.