What Arrows to Choose - Which Shaft is Right for You? Comparing the Nock ON AXIS, FMJ & SONIC KE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ส.ค. 2023
- Everyday we are asked "What arrow type should I use and WHY?" This videos give you the rundown of three different arrows and what the pro and cons are to each. These arrow options offer a wide range of options for the archer/ bowhunter. I take an arrow in my length 29.25" and show you how the math plays out and what you can expect from each of the arrows.Its also valuable to visit our website and look at the arrow chart to select the spine that's right for you. Throughout all my years testing arrows, these 3 have continued to stand the test of time. The details of the simplicity, component fit, consistency and time in the field and on the range are the reason these are the shafts we offer at Nock On Archery.
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Thanks for the Tru- Flite shout-out, John. I really enjoyed working with you "back in the day".
Good way to kick off my Saturday! 🤘🏼
I’m still a standard diameter .246 guy. Been shooting the 6.5 eastons with .003 straightness and happy with weight and performance.
i started with standard diameter arrows, but i do really think the 5mm .204 is the best all around arrow. all i use now are axis 5mm. i would love to try some lighter weight victory RIP TKO, but up here in Canada they are very hard to find and very expensive
Been shooting the Sonic KEs the last few months and loving them! Hopefully put one in a whitetail or 2 soon! Thanks for the videos🤘🏼🤘🏼
Great informative video! Truly a wide range of usage for each application. When you say a good midrange arrow, what is the distance you that you are referring to? 40yds and in or what?? 🎯
I've used a 300 spine at 80bs on the latest bows with a 15% FOC and it will kill anything on planet earth unless dinosaurs come back
For hunting this year I got the 4mm match grade axis long range, 250 spine, 5gr out front with 100grn trifecta , and zinger fletches
I have the knock-on bitzenburger set up ... 4 fletch and I've never looked back. These videos are like going to class in 10min
Professor Black Belt of Archery 🏹 skill’s unmatched 🤘
What arrow length do you suggest based on draw length? For example, I'm 27.5" draw and shooting 72#
I'm still confused about the arrow diameter! For outdoor target archery like World Archery tournaments, what is the most suitable arrow diameter? is the thicker one better or thin arrow is more accurate. How to choose
The FMJ are absolutely the best arrows I have shot. All it took was one shot with a friends arrow. Sold
Love my FMJs, but at 54# with 28” DL, pin gap is huge (5 pin Spot Hog). I have a box of ACCs 3-28, shot them for many years.
Hey, John! Love your videos! What's your favorite color?
Question ! Would you be willing to suggest a total weight arrow for my situation ? 26 in draw length , 40 pounds max . Fixed blade broad head , maximum range 25 yards . Whitetail deer . Thank you for your time .
Hi hot melting glue can be used on axis brass hit inserts?
John, What weight are you shooting?
I seen your video yesterday and someone had a question about an arrow you was shooting being 300 spine and you explained the arrow charts, question you know more than I but I've been thinking about the high let off bows have now days back when charts were made the were 50% let at best 65% wouldn't you kinda have to take in consideration of let off my opinion and I've heard you kinda of explain heavier arrows and higher let off. But my thinking is higher let off is way more easier on the spine it's kinda of like I have heard you compare bows with cars trucks with clutches my thinking is high letoff is like easing into the take off and low let off is more like dumping the clutch and spilling everybody's drinks sorry about the long comment but am I sort of on the right track you can get away with less spine and more weight up front than people think because of letoff and of course cam configuration. With all of that said I shoot 60lb bow old 2018 Elite high letoff and the arrow is 27" long draw length 28" I've shot 300 spine and everything in between the only arrow that I can get a bullet hole with is the 400 and I'm kinda going down the rabbit hole but I never let the bullet hole make me not shoot was always on my mind but I'd go shoot groups and have to shoot at different spots or buy more arrows, and that is what it all comes down to I'd rather shoot arrows than not.
I switched from Axis to the 340 spine KE with 50gr of brass and 100gr tips. I am loving them!
@nockonarchery any idea when the 340 spine will be back in stock? I wanted to order another 6 arrows but they are out of stock right now.
What hot melt do you use?
I love the axis great info on Sonic
I'm 27.5 DL so I don't like a heavy arrow. Still look for weight, but apply it where needed. Switched from GT hunters with 125 heads at 440 to GT black label quantums with the Easton 75gn hit and 100gn heads. 445gn with 190 up front. Bit overkill on foc but group tight, hit hard and still fly fast
I’ve been an FMJ hunter for over 10yrs. I moved to the Sonic KEs with the 75gr for this year just to experiment with a cheaper option.
They group every bit as well as my FMJs. I shoot about 4 days a week. So far the durability has been there as well.
If these perform on deer like I expect they will, I feel like I hit the jackpot with these. Super affordable high performing arrows!
I have a I’m going to be getting a torrex xt plan to shot at 60 pounds 25.5 inch draw will be hunting and target shooting with it what would be best shaft lenght and spine for me to cover both ?
Where can you get one of those arrow holders you have in your shop? Can you buy those, or are they dealer displays?
How do you determine cut length of your arrow? And do you consider how cut length effects spine? Does changing point weight and nock weight have that much effect on spine dynamics? I know this is probably a minor detail but just curious!! I have an inkling I'm on the short side of things. (Insert joke here)
Bareshaft that rig and see ! If i tune a recurve arrow via bareshafting at 20, to a pefect spine, perfect mirror image bare and fletched shafts shot at same spot, then add a 15 grain wrap, that arrow will be stiff again, granted not alot ,tail right bout inch, but i can see movement in a 15 grain or more weight change on EITHER end , and i can see 1/4 inch changes in shaft length, if its pefect tune, and i cut 1/4 inch off of it, is bout same as adding the wrap, it will go stiff a hair, tail right bout inch at 20, no impact point change but can definately see the changes
Went to order some the other day and you were out of stock on the 340 Sonic KE. Hopefully they’re back in stock soon. I want to order a half dozen to try out.
We're getting more here soon! You can sign up for email notifications on the product page on our website
Is there a difference between Sonic 6.0 and Sonic KE?
I definitely think I’m underspined with my arrows. At 6’2” and a 29 1/2 draw I somehow ended up with 400 FMJ’s. Really think I should be between 340’s and 300’s at a 65lb draw weight. It seems so late to be trying to change arrows before the season when I’ve been shooting these all summer. What would you suggest John? My local bow shop is not what I would consider a pro shop since this is what they sold me to begin with. Nothing around KC that I would consider a pro shop that I am aware of.
I am 6' 6" with a 30" draw
I shoot 340 or 300
I am also 6’2” 29 1/2 draw. And i got set up with 300s from my pro shop in NM. My friend got set up with 400s and is smaller than me. I asked them why the difference and they said all because of the draw length. Hope it helps
I've been using the Axis 5mm 260 shaft for a few years. How can I get a better FOC? I have a longer 32" draw length so my arrows are 31.8" with a nockturnal lighted nock and standard HIT insert with a 100 grain head with 3 AAE max stealth vanes. That comes out to a 538 grain arrow weight but only a 6% FOC.
Can only get more FOC adding more weight our front or decreasing weight out back.
I think i'm on the right track. Hate asking questions on here but, I am 27.5 inch draw and only shooting 58lbs! I use a Axis 5mm 340 spine, with 25 gr half out. 100 gr points and broadheads.420 gr total unless i put a lighted nock on. Just under 435 gr total with the lighted nock. So, what I'm thinking is that I am right in there with my specs as to the person that has longer draw and more poundage shooting 500 or 550 grains. I am only deer hunting. Mostly from treestands. Any comments, I would love to hear! Thanks John for another great one!
Maybe you're over spined, aka too stiff. My thought would be a 400 spine for your setup.
@@5jjt Nah, right on the cusp. Better to be a little over then under spined. Actually started with 400's and went up to 64lbs, switched to 340's and started turning it down until my groups really tightened up. Shooting touching 3 arrow groups at 40yrds. I'm getting old and the shoulders started screaming at me! Much more comfortable pulling from a seated position in a tree stand. Who knows maybe I will turn it up a bit for the season, then I will be right in there with the "specs". Thanks for your feed back. Hope you have great shooting this season!
@@5jjt Justin, It might be that I am just more steady with the lower poundage also, that's why my groups tightened up. Just thinking. thanks again
I like the axis 4mm long range for hunting, 250 spine . Skinny fast, good pass through ls
I like the sonic and axis arrows but switched to victory rip XV and rip TKO because they spine align them from the factory and the nano coating makes them so much easier to pull from targets. Not dogging the easton sonic or axis I just grew to prefer victory over more refinement. Ive also found victory arrows spin very true regardless of being v6, v3, or v1. I wont get into the fmj..., archery moved from aluminum shafts to carbon because carbon doesn't bend so having an aluminum wrapped arrow that can bend is a step back. If you want a heavy hitter the victory rip SS would be my choice over an fmj. .
That spine alignment is not accurate but I also love and shoot the rips tkos
@@greekmaster1001 I don't trust the spine alignment myself but its a nice addition and of the 12 victory arrows I've fletched so far only one of them I had to rotate the knock and it was a rip XV v3. Long story but I had custom arrows made and didn't like them so I bought a bitz and started fletching my own. This led to playing with 4 different fletching's and 3 vs 4 fletching for my fixed blades....always a process
Facts. Easton Axis/FMJ arrows have been a very solid option in my selection of arrows for 15+ years.
P.S. - Dont listen to the asshole below calling everyone nobody's, as no matter how much light you get there is always a "nobody" out there that knows more and is better than the next guy!
With all the green he should have some centerpoint crossbows laying around
I wanna get an arrow lighter then fmjs but only thing I trust after putting carbon arrow through my hand
John, I have a problem with your assessment of .001 straightness. I have spent good money many times for both Axis and Hexx/Sonic shafts and even after cutting both ends your lucky to get 3 to 4 straight shafts. Why is this??
That is why I buy victory vap tko
your wasting money on .001's
You probably don’t have your saw blade set to the proper depth
It’s always a good practice to square both ends after cutting it 👍
Are you putting the arrows in a spin jig and testing with a dial indicator? How are testing straightness?
I think you should do a video on why you don't like FOC in detail. Not a claim from authority, but to show the data. Show the groups opening up at distance and explain why.
To be clear, we agree FOC is good. But what is the problem with running a Victory RIP XV in a stiffer spine with a much higher FOC? Why is it a good or bad idea to run 18% or more but still keeping a reasonable speed?
He has hashed that out many times. John along with the rest of the high end target shooters run 150 to 200 up front on the range and in the field, in some cases more. That is not anti FOC. They are all shooting high FOC, 14-18%. Extreme FOC is 19-30%. Anything over that is defined as ultra extreme. In John's mind if an arrow won't group at 90 meeters it is a bad build. The heavy arrow crowd that knows what it's doing doesn't care about that. They hunt inside of 30yds and take the shots they are given.
@@cjr4497 Maybe I gave a bad prompt. Most of the arguments I've heard him say involve not sacrificing too much speed, or "perfect arrow flight", whatever that actually means. He recently brought up a chart showing group sizes at different distances, and made a comment to the effect of "FOC ruins groups at extended ranges".
He runs 175 up front a lot, but in an FMJ that's barely anything for FOC. I know what the numbers are for high and extreme FOC, but I think those numbers are arbitrary and should be scaled down as arrow mass increases (my opinion). He has rallied against arrow builds where the point leads the way, but that's how ALL statically stable projectiles work, even with low FOC. FWIW, I'm in Kansas and every arrow hits the target sideways, no matter the FOC or distance just because of the wind. FOC is a priority for me in order to preserve energy where it matters.
The contradictory bits are the problem, and he only provides the summary of his findings and not the details. He shows the results of his spine testing and how he isolates the ideal spine for his arrows, but doesn't really show it for other ideas.
Finally, his philosophy on trauma versus penetration doesn't make sense to me. And I think that's why he doesn't support FOC as much, since he doesn't try to put two holes into something as much as one ragged hole. If there's a better argument against "the point leading the way" other than "it doesn't look as pretty" or "my mechanicals work just fine without it", then I really want to know.
I don't know I run victory rip tko's elites cut to 26" with a 50 grain titanium insert, and 125 point, 2 fletch max hunter with nock total at 436grain with an 18% foc shooting 281fps lol, I have no issues with my grouping opening up at distance untill I'm shooting 60yrds with a fixed blade (practice and tuning purposes only at 60 btw)
8 don't think it's the foc but more the added weight, im lucky because foc is very very easy for me to get without adding a bunch of weight of front like some people same setup with but to their arrow length it might be 14-15 or less I'm not sure but ahortee arrows like 26" is easy and don't effect my grouping.
70#s, 26.5" draw weight, Mathews phase 4, but there's a reason I don't use lighted nocks or wraps it drops foc drastically
Just ordered some fmj’s 250 spine, I’ve got to find out if they are as good as he says they are.
What's the deliver time for other countries? Namely Australia.
Just depends on the service honestly. We have a couple different ones to choose from in the checkout process
If there's anyone in the comments or the host I shoot a Mathews v327 with the 70lb mods how light is to light with my arrow
Instead of listening and learning from John Dudleys years of experience, you have nobody’s babbling on about him proving his recommendations 🤦♂️
Yeah the sad part is dud obviously dedicates himself to making a living in the archery business and helping people improve in that process!
Sure, he makes a living off of it, but he’s not pushing things he doesn’t really believe in himself. That’s just the M.O. of a good businessman!
I personally appreciate his quality that attracts people to him and makes him successful and full of energy.
Why be a bitter troll if you don’t get it? Unless… I guess their bitterness from being unsuccessful drives them.
Exactly,dudley is doing a good job.
He has proved them just go back watch his videos of shooting and hunting
Didn’t you know, arm chair QB’s know way more then the GOAT’s….😂😂😂
This dude has helped me more then anybody with shooting my bow. He has spent so much time making instructional videos and getting the people unreal knowledge. This kind of coaching would cost a fortune in real life and not all of us have somebody in their life that can teach them this kind of stuff. I bought an Evo NTN when it came time to buy a new bow because 1. It's sick and 2. I wanted to support Dud for all he's done.
It’s difficult for me to find 32” 250spine arrows without spending a ton of money on custom arrows
Soo heavy
You would think Ironwill would of locked the BH contract lol
Gotta remember he’s shooting 70+#’s at 29” I believe. If you’re drawing 60#’s these weights he’s talking about may be too heavy? for a decently flat trajectory. Just thinking I would need to be at 425-435 for keeping in the 265-275 fps. ?
30.5” DL
Why don’t you guys offer different colors?
Wouldn't really be on brand if it wasn't nock on green
6:50
16:44
that collar is killing me...
Axis and fmj to high gpi for me.
Fix your collar
Aye aye first sgt!
Please stop saying fletchings steer arrows…..they don’t.
Fletchings are designed to steer and stabilize the arrow after its shot out of a bow and correct any slight errors that would otherwise influence the arrow's flight. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
So.. you just use bare shafts?? Vanes steer my 🏹 what steers yours?
😂 my Axis arrows don’t have steering wheel. But do fly straight.
Wut
@@JamesBond-oc4gmumm, no…..get a dictionary and look up what “steer” actually means. Fletchings stabilize arrows and mitigate affects (to a degree) of bad arrow flight caused by several factors……they in no way steer your arrow.
Your not a very good salesman,I’ll stick with my gold tips from fleet farm great arrows and cheap.
Thanks John I definitely learned a lot! Just picked up some new arrows. Decided to go with a total grain of 437 16.24% foc or 454 13.78% foc with nocturnals.
@timmermanoutdoors