$2000 tone for $300??? Marshall JCM800 vs VS100 | The Q Show ep. 21
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Howdy y'all! Today we're going to compare a client's JCM800 with my very own VS100. Are they really that different? The price certainly can be!
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1:07 2:44
Yooo I never updated this one! I'll be adding time cues one of these days, thanks for the reminder
I have an ancient Valvestate that is absolutely incredible for Metal. It's every bit as capable at it as my Triaxis is, possibly more so. The crunch is just deliciously ferocious.
Im 46 damn 47 in a few weeks that sucks, anyway… Back in my hard gigging days.. Nobody had tubes. NOBODY! And Peavey ruled the local music scene, as well as metal heads they wanted Crate because they chugged.. But nobody and I mean nobody was using tube amps, not in bars clubs under 21 clubs punk scene to our grunge scene, to country and bar band mix of everything scene. Nobody played tubes, nobody wanted that old outdated stuff.
I dont know what your partnof the country was like late 80’s to the late 90’s into early 200’s but the whole tube amp thing was a resurgence. Because back in Indy/Anderson/Muncie/Marion/Ft Wayne scene.. All of central Indiana.. Local musicians did not play tube amps. If they had one. It stayed at home and they played a solid state Peavey most likely. And as a bass player in many bands I can honestly say nobody had tube bass amps, and I prefer solid state for bass anyway.
BTW shout out to my Madison county OG’s still out there getting it! 🤟🏻✌🏻
My question though, is did anybody play tubes?
@@supernothing77 😆😆 smart ass lol
I'm a little older than you and yes you are correct. Most people used solid state. I had one of these JCM 800 heads with a 2 x12 Marshall cab and a 4x10 Ampeg cab. It was my first rig. It was a monster. I downsized to a peavy stereo chorus 212.
I have right now both the VS100R and the 8100 head with it's 4x12cab, I've been tempted to get a JCM 800 but its just too expensive and to be honest you can do A LOT with the valvestates, I love the way they sound. Greetings from Colombia man, new subscriber BTW
Hey I appreciate the sub, ty so much!
I agree entirely. To me, if the amp is something like... a low wattage small tube amp with leaking capacitors, the charm can be harder to duplicate. However with high wattage amps that are generally a bit cleaner in how they operate (a brand new jcm800, Mesa, 5150) to me it is a much closer contest. Pair it with a good cabinet and you might even prefer it!
I had to fix mine, if it ever starts squealing look first to the phase inverter tube inside
ive got the vs100 head and its one of my fav. amps ever ...I have an evh5150 and a orange tiny terror, but this is my main amp
shouldn’t long speak between test because is very dificult remain the sounds
I’ve definitely learned since this one! I’ll be updating the description with some time markers, which one commenter was kind enough to provide for me.
Ty for watching and the pointed feedback!
VS100 head owner here… and I love it. I found it at GC a few years ago for $150! I would love an A/B shoot out with the VS100 and the 8100… nothing on TH-cam?! *I’d love that JCM 800 but for a basement rockstar like me, it’s overkill.
Taylor Danley did a shootout
I have the Valvestate80V and it's a great versatile amp. Real spring reverb tank, effects loop, and searing boost Marshall tones that I can use for a gig or at home due to the master channel. It still uses the original tube. Easy to transport. The clean tones can sound a bit thin but thicken up after the tubes warms up. I use a booster pedal with EQ to thicken it up further and the tone is as clean as you want it. Strange phenomena of clean channel actually going louder than boost channel (probably due to compression on the boost channel).
I run my vs100 in od1 with the gain turned down, it has a clean voice that you'd be hard pressed to get out of either an all-tube or purely solid state amp, definitely one for the "tone chasers"
I have the 8100 and it is great. I have the bbe sonic stomp running through the fx loop on it and it really made it sound fatter.
JTMs/Plexis actually have some nice clean tones! JCM800 can do some nice sort of 90s style clean breakup tones too, the sort you have before you kick on a Rat or Shredmaster into it
I ❤️ my VS100R
VS100 original owner and recall paying $650 for it in 1998, with inflation that would be over $1200 in 2024.
The Amp has travelled to many places in the last 26 years…
I have experimented with different preamp tubes and have found little difference in the overall sound, my experience with different pickups had more of a positive gain.
I had to replace all the pots once, and the main volume pot twice…poor quality replacement maybe?
It’s missing a foot, has a tear of the finish on one side, otherwise it looks and sounds great, especially through a half stack.
👍 overall, I recommend the Valvestate VS100 for ones repertoire of amplification boxes 😊
A blind test would have been a bit more intresting. Ive had 2 Marshall JCM 100watt combos. I now have a Valvestate 80V Marshall as its not as heavy to lug around the single speaker combo but its got everything i wanted out of an amp. And no more expensive sets of tubes. Marshall also did a JCM 600 full tube amp so ive just recently learned.
Hey I've got a jcm600 head unit and an AVT50 combo 12 inch speaker and they both sound really good but I just can't side with overdrive channel on the jcm600 head, maybe because the diode in that channel but I really love the Marshall AVT50 for both channels even though there's only 1 pre amp tube in the AVT50 combo 🤷♀️ they are both great amps for their reverb and 2 channel but honestly I think my Peavey 5150 or my Peavey valveking mk1 50 watt combo is a better all around tones just not as flexible but what ever you have just plug your favorite guitar in and rock out !
Valvestates kick ass, the VS100/8100 heads usually kick the shit out of most all tube high gain heads. Some of the best solid states ever made (well they have a pre amp tube but still).
That’s what I’m talking about! I only wish I had the head, no need for another cab in the house 😅
While I did have to replace the tube in this one to fix it, it only serves as a phase inverter. It’s basically contributing nothing to the tone here so to me it’s fully solid state ✨🤘🏼✨. Thanks for watching!
Edit: Oops, it's totally a gain stage running into a cathode-follower. A little different but based on the design I'm of the same opinion on its influence sonically.
@@TheQShow
Hey!
Great video!
Great amp(s)!
I have the VS100 combo too . . . Two part question:
My amp still has the same Marshall-labeled tube in it from the 90s should I replace it?
(I thought of replacing it with a JJ, Any thoughts?)
Also, Can you elaborate more on "phase inverting" that the tube is doing?
Thank You!
@@BrandonKJohnson Hey! I'd be happy to break this down a little for you.
If it has the same tube that the amp I repaired (this one) had, it's considered pretty desirable, depending on how much use the amp got however, it may be a good idea to do it preventatively. I used a long-plate JJ 12ax7 (ECC803) as a replacement as the original was also long-plate. My understanding is they have a little more headroom, I am realizing that the tube in questions isn't a phase splitter, but a gain stage running into a cathode-follower. I'll explain both tho!
Phase-splitter: Every time a signal passes through a tube, it flips the signal's phase on its head, for a class A/B amp to work, you need to have the signal presented both twice. With one was flipped 180 degrees, to get the amp to push-pull, so as to make the speaker move. This is done by splitting the signal at a tube from the anode and cathode (inverted on top and as it was received on the bottom) The tube could be overdriven at this stage as well, but generally it's designed to run at unity gain (to say, cleanly), and not shaped to distort in a musical way. However, this is not what's present in the Valvestate as far as I can tell.
Thanks for asking, I'd have never noticed this. Uncle Doug has a fantastic video called "Phase-Splitters for the Common Man" that explains this way better than I currently just did if you want to dig a little deeper.
Cathode-Follower: This is a tube that takes current in but isn't designed to raise the gain (without any splitting business), usually used when trying to be transparent (think a tube recovery stage in a reverb tank or something, you don't really wanna make it drive like a preamp tube designed to saturate). So even though the tube, being half gain stage half cathode-follower, is in a place to potentially say something tonally, it's a little late in the chain to say much about the heavy distorted tones in the video.
The Main Volume knob on both channels is placed before the tube (I imagine to simulate some sort of tube response at higher volumes) but, generally speaking I just noticed the tone get a little flabbier, and found there was a sweet spot well before the tube started making itself known. This is why many suggest the tube here is more a gimmick than truly necessary to its design.
Thank's again for watching and the fantastic ask! I'm off to edit some responses...
@@BrandonKJohnson Actually, going through this small journey I'd have to recommend another tube than what I used. Since it does get the final tonal say I'd probably replace mine with something a little brighter, like a EH 12ax7 such as the 6922 (I personally also have great experiences with the old Matsushita tubes, but this is more anecdotal and I'm reluctant to firmly endorse spending extra when those EH tubes are $15 each). However, I am more partial to a brighter tone than some, so I suppose that's worth considering ;)
@@TheQShow wow!!! What some great info and education!!
Geeze I wish I could wrap my head around electronics and circuitry more!
I had thought about the following tubes:
JJ
Genalex
Mullard
Sovtek
Tung-Sol
Electro harmonix
Based on sound comparisons I had heard on TH-cam and based on "tone charts" online
Any thoughts?
Here's a link from somebody else. And I added time stamps in a comment so I could compare better
th-cam.com/video/PZ_G0PGCoQM/w-d-xo.html
I picked up a Valvestate S80 2x12 combo a while back. Other than the chorus, is it the same circuit as this 100?
The Demo on the VS100 on OD1 was a great tone , but was still a fairly High gain 80s hair metal tone ( Ozzy,Ratt etc)
Can in do 70s Marshall tones? Zeppelin, AC/DC , Purple, Lizzy etc.. ie the Golden Era of Marshall , or is it useless for that?
I have a marshall jcm2000 tube amp and a valvestate2000. Both great..tube snobs...you lose. Noone in the club cares if it's an all tube amp.
I actually think that the VS100 sounds better.
Tbh, same. I think the valvestate line is super unappreciated outside of some meal scenes
@@TheQShow This especially goes for the VS100 and VS65. Having owned an 8080 and a VS100+VS65, I liked the latter ones a lot better, as they have that high-mid, warm Marshall-tone going for them a lot more than the 8080 (which felt comparatively stiff and a bit cold to me). However, the 8080/8100 somehow have a far better reputation.
@@alexanderschubert9975 totally with you there!
I’d guess it’s because Chuck Schuldiner used one from that era. IMO the VS line was a step forward in sound; and you can still get all those classic tones if you want ;)
the VS100 sounds kind of brighter and less ''bassy'' sound. This exceed of bass REALLY makes difference, specially when you use a parametric or other kind of EQ. Try it, it'sa nice idea to another video, for ex, trying to sound closer to Dimebag tone, as your Marshalls are able to. Nice video!
Just got my 8100 vs100 back from the shop, new switch, tube socket. Also have the AVT50H...shoot-out time !
Hell yea! When I got the vs100 it was sold as is for parts. It needed a tube, reverb tank, and some broken solder joints patched up. They’re lovely amps tho. How did they compare???
SICK! I love my VS100 head... a Guitar Center find for a whopping $150 several years ago. I would still love that JCM 800 though!
Same! The 800s are legendary for a reason, this modded one was totally “that sound” form all those 80s tracks I love. A lot of ways to get that tone, but to have the original for a moment was nice :)
Thanks for watching!
Not me getting a marshall for amazing clean tones.... :( I feel attacked HAHAHAHAHA
My JCM 900 has great clean tones. I just got a VS100 last weekend and played it on the clean channel mostly until my footswitch arrived yesterday. Marshall has some awesome cleans. Just saying.
Miss my VS100 so much. Recently got a Lead 100 Mosfet & love it also.
I hope people keep hating them so they stay cheap! ✌️🤘
i prefer the vs100 go figure
I bought the VS102R last year. I haven't really had a chance put it through it paces. Any advice for Zakk sort of tones?
Hey thanks for watching!
A big part of his iconic era sounds is slamming those power tubes. That doesn’t mean you can’t do that with an amp like this.
I’d probably slap a limiter in the fx loop to get a bit closer to that sound (as this is a big part of what hitting power tubes/phase inverter tube offers), and run some od/dist into the first overdrive channel to get a bit more compression on my sound. Lastly I’d consider some sorta para eq before the limiter in the fx loop but I don’t think you’d need it tbh
Valvestate sounds lot like Friedman be od pedal
This is interesting! I did a little dig and while they aren't really identical they are employing a lot of similar techniques to the same end. It makes sense to me they'd sound similar ultimately. I'll have to try the pedal out sometime.. 🤔
i have mine since 25 years ago, seems i was not wrong after all, eat it elitist gear snobs!!
You bet! Solid state will never be tube; but, it doesn’t have to be, it sounds amazing as it is 🤩
Is that your #1 amp, or do you have another favorite?
@@TheQShow i have a national head(arg vintage elect custom shop) , 10 valves, its based on the dual rect, 25/50/100w selector , thats the heavy artillery , i call it sharp knives and lion roar , sounds like a sovtek to me, although i am having trouble capturing the valve goodness in the mic , to me solid state amps are easy to grab the tone in the mic than valves, giving its a ore compressed and cut signal.
@@TheQShow here is a demo th-cam.com/video/vEBh6UwAaH8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Andr%C3%A9sGarrido
bought it used for 200 bucks
I mean if the Valvestates were good enough for Death can you really complain?
That's true but before the valvestate Chuck used the JCM800 and IMO the tone on the earlier albums was much better.
Your intro is brilliant!!! I could just watch it all day long. Great job!
I love your intro dude
Yo I appreciate that! Thanks for watching ✨🙏🏼✨
That was kinda fruity but hey ...
Nothing compares to valve amps...NOTHING! Period. Everything else is an emulator
Just curious, do you use pedals to make your tube amp sound better?…..solid state pedals?
I get a really nice clean out of my VS100............... really nice.... *shrugs*
I love my Valvestate VS 100 but it’s a very bright amp. It’s hard to use live because it’s hard to dial out the brightness. Maybe an EQ pedal up front and some tweaking would work.
I prefer my DSL 40C for live and can use the Valvestate at home for recording.
Put an EQ in the loop! The amp also becomes a monster when doing so
Yep. Eq in the loop. I have a boss ge 21 sitting on top of my amp at all times.
Well at least you don't have to crank the Valvestate for power amp distortion.
What speaker did you use with the JCM800? is it the same with the Valvestate?
I always use a load into a speaker sim. I feel this gives the most representative result for my space.
I did in this case use the same speaker sim for both amps, at the same impedance.
Which did you like more?
@@TheQShow Good idea - I hate how many gear demos insist on micing up just for a pedal demo or whatever and it's just a muffled mess. There's no point introducing more variables where you can avoid it.
AVT 50, 100 & 150 are made in 🇬🇧 👍
i picked up a 2006 AVT 50 head, and whilst searching for a 2x12 cab, found a 1999 VS102r.. The 102r sounds awesome on its own, but the newer AVT sounds wicked thru the 102's speakers!, and it looks like a small half-stack!. I did the reverb tank "mod", which is simply unplugging the rca wire from the board of the AVT.(a few mins to remove the screws on the back, and a second or two to unplug the wire harness. EASY) The reverb adjust knob now, amazingly, acts as a sort of a "presence" type thing. My main kinda home recording setup rig is a Marshall JMD:1 thru a 1x12.The JMD models a ton of "classic" marshalls, but IS all tube power section. I love it, but i gotta say the one sound it CANT replicate, is that Valvestate vibe lol 🤘
This is really cool stuff, ty for sharing about the mod. I'll have to look into why that works on the AVT line. If you told anyone at Marshall the JMP needs a Valvestate mode I'm sure the entirely room would've erupted in laughter! 😅 Thanks for watching :)
As much as some comment of this amp having high low ends, that compare to my Crate amps. All I can say about those is, if your bassist can't make it to the show, you won't need him/her.
I try to play clean sometimes I really do, but I can't seem to be inspired , At all, It is my curse, guitar to me should always be played through a Marshall with DISTORTION. I done want no boogie, fender, or any boutique overpriced made by this guy or that guy. My favorite guitarist growing up all played Marshall and it's the sound I want to here. And I love the SS as well as the tubes. SPEAKERS on the other hand make alotta difference, Love your video!!!
I bought and returned a mini jubilee, dsl20, and jcm800 20, they all sounded damn near the same to the VS30R I bought for $50. Put a tube screamer in the mix and youl have all the marshall youl ever need
WTF is this channel lol
i want mopre Q show
2:38 That was just a beautiful, pure and deep metal burp. And I had AVT50 2000 series combo. There was a lot of hype and hate that Valvestate 2000 series sucks and VS series was the only one real legend. But my former schoolmate was Chuck Schuldiner and Death's fanboy so everything else "sucked" but that one particular "holy grail" model.
VS100 sounds pretty cool tho! Sadly, in my AVT50 there was only 1 OD channel and it defo lacked high gain aside from heavy metal style so it was never enough for my and 12T75 Celestion speaker had that mud I found about many years later so I wasn't quite aware what causes my tone being muddy. Thought it was V-Amp Pro (partially yes cause when I started playing guitar I don't think I knew or remembered I could always bypass cab sims).
I appreciate it 😅
I’d definitely reccomend hunting one down if you’ve gotta scratch that VS Marshall itch, it’s a really solid amp, even the clean tone is nice :)
The vs switch adds a sorta pseudo impedance curve to give it tube cabinet vibes. It’s at the cost of efficiency but imo the best tones it had to offer were with that on into a nice cabinet.
I just let mine go but.. I’ll be finding the head version soon enough I’m sure :)
Thanks for watching! ✨🙏🏼✨
@@TheQShow Yeah it's been pleasure! I heard head amps, no matter what, always have some more extra gain comparing to a combo version, unless it's just cabs and better speakers magic (various manufacture tend to use worse speakers in combos rather than in a 4x12 cab for instance) or a placebo effect
The answer is if you are playing in a band and in a club, yes. If you are playing in your room the non power tube amp is better because the big marshall won't do what it does at a reasonable volume
Very cool video buddy, I love the VS Marshall amps because I can’t afford a real one 🤦♂️🤣
I have 3, VS100 head, VS100 combo and a VS150 head 🤙🎸
They are definitely Real amps.
just nabbed a vs102r cheap.....booyah!
Excelente i love my vs100!!!
Same! Its nice to see these finally get the recognition they deserved, maybe Marshall will move back in this direction again (as opposed to the MG with the BJT transistor preamp)
@@TheQShow I very much doubt it. Now everyone is focused on impulse responses. only old guys like me (40 years old) are carrying around analog setups and heavy amps. I'm still dreaming of a JMP1. Haha
Is it good with pedals?
@@dienandvanderheide7695 yes I use drives and modulations in send return.
if switched the tubes you might lose the texture anyway.
I'll start with the caveat that obviously tone is subjective in terms of what sounds good to you, sounds good to you, so ultimately that's your thing to decide! I have to say though I found this vid searching for VS100R clips as it was my first amp and wondered how it would sound to me after 20 odd years of having played one. I'm no tube cork sniffer, but for me at least there is no contest between the 800 and this VS100, based on this I'm on the 800 all day long by some margin! To attempt to qualify it; the VS100R sounds super compressed and quite narrow and tinny to me, it seems to lack the fullness of its older brother. I get though that it is also 'a sound' in and of itself so if that's your bag then great, you've saved yourself from the headache of tube amp maintenance! Give me clunky, heavy, old, unnecessarily loud tube amps any day though! Great vid to see though, thanks!
Hey! I appreciate the input. To be fair, the 800 surely sounds warmer here even with the busted tubes. The 800 for many is an iconic Marshall sound people strive for! I know I certainly do sometimes, I would’ve kept the amp if I had the chance 😅
For me, probably because my first real amp was a musicman HD130, I’ve got different biases in tone. I’m often chasing that percussive tightness more than the big open tones. But.. here’s my real reason I love the VS
You’re totally right, the 800 does have an open fullness the VS has a bit less of. However… with an opto compressor and para eq in the FX loop (I didn’t do this out of honesty) I’d be very much within spitting distance of nailing the 800 tone imo (the compression of the poweramp is a big part of that tube tone).
Also with fresh twos I’m sure the 800 would’ve sounded absolutely monstrous especially with the mods they had in this one.
Another big one is the speaker it comes with, the vs100 stock speaker is… very articulate to out it nicely. It’s all simulated here but if you ever get the chance try one with the speakers an 800 is traditionally paired with.
Ultimately though, all of this does not to me I’m out to an amp that is worth 10x as much sometimes. But I’d also never say a solid state amp sounds the same, just nice in its own way
Thank you so much for watching and leaving the thoughtful comment; this made my day :)
I gotta chime in here. A couple years ago I was buying up all the VS amps that showed up on Craigslist. I scored 3 VS100's, an 8100, an 8200 and a VS232 (which, shockingly, has NO preamp tube even though it's a "Valvestate" - 100% solid state). I also have a Soldano Hot Rod 50, a Mesa Single Rectifier Solo 50 and a Peavey 6505+. I'd get together with a guitar player buddy of mine and we'd just jam. He always wanted to play one of the tube amps and I'd play the VS amp. I would also record these sessions. When I'd play them back there was NO mistaking the tube amp from the VS. If I'd play the VS by myself it always sounded fat, thick and awesome. But when it was played along side an all tube amp it sounded... hate to say it... but it sounded kinda wimpy and anemic. And 2 of those tube amps were 50 watts versus the 100 watt VS. So, take it for what it's worth, but I hear ya on the "narrow and tinny" description. It doesn't change my opinion of the VS amps, they're AWESOME for metal and I love them. Just don't play one along side a tube amp, you'll be drowned out. And turning up doesn't work, that just makes it sound harsh with no bottom end.
@@MrBownze tube amps definitely take to being pushed better than most solid states. If someone had a 100w tube pushed full tilt I’d want at least 200w. That usually mean using some sort of powerblock like Van Halen did in the 80s, basically turning his Marshall into a giant preamp
Tbh, the tube phase inverter is such a small part of the sound I’d say the 232 wasn’t being too deceptive. Curious they kept the name tho..
I gotta make a case for my beloved VS tho!
If you don’t mind answering, what speakers did the valvestate have? I found that the stock one in my combo is extremely articulate (a.k.a. a little harsher and brighter) than the speakers typically paired with a tube amp used for rock. To me this is probably the single biggest reason people associate solid state amps with harsh tones.
I appreciate your input tho, it’s giving me something to think about. I’d love to redo this video a bit more empirically, maybe one day I’ll get another Marshall in to do a comparison, with both amps having fresh tubes and capacitors 🤩
@@TheQShow All amps I mentioned are head versions except for the 232, that one is a combo with Celestion G12's. I typically run through a Jet City 4x12 loaded with Eminence speakers, don't remember the model. I like Eminence, they're "dark", never harsh or brittle. The day my buddy and I were jamming he was using the Soldano HR-50 with the JC cab, and I was through the VS100 with a Marshall 4x12 with G12's. Sorry, I don't know the letter suffix on the G12's. It's whatever Marshall used "back in the day". Not Chinese made though, genuine British G12's.
@@MrBownze I've had my 8100 since 96' and it's the amp i play most as it's the most versitile and i absolutley love it, however in a live enviroment next to a DSL50 or TSL60 the 8100 just won't cut through like the other 2 however the other only do loud or very loud, which is useless in the house. I recently bought a VS265 as it has a headphone socket, it has more gain and a different tone and not quite as precise as the 8100. I'm going to source a VS100r soon, while they are still cheap. But the 8100 is still top dog in my book.
Solidatates are good for metal though
I struggled with the valvestate I don't think it likes the EMG 81 pickups I use. It seems to really like the passive pickups you have in that guitar though. IMO the Valvestate has a very stiff feel to it, and the JCM800 can be one of the best feeling and sounding amps with the right pickups and boost pedals.
My EMGs sound awesome on mine so idk if it's the pickups
Some things to note in retrospect. I make a comment about the 800 getting “sound from diodes”; that’s definitely not the case it’s entirely a tube amp!
I also realized in retrospect this amp had the very popular extra gain stage mod done to it. Imo this just added a bit of saturation and did not color the tone much.
In this, I feel the comparison is still relevant for those curious to see how good examples of each amp type stack up. Thanks for watching!
NO !
The valvestate still has a 12AX7. Pre amp tune