Watching A Furnace Run With A Cracked Heat Exchanger
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video we are checking a 2004 Trane furnace. I will show you how to tell your heat exchanger is cracked just by looking at the burners. Hope you enjoy! Please like and subscribe!
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I understand the customer's apprehension. I had an HVAC company tell me (with pictures, too) that my heat exchanger was cracked. He said he "red tagged" the unit and disabled it. I didn't touch a thing as it was in my attic. Called two other companies out and didn't tell them a thing. Both companies said the unit was fine with no crack in the exchanger and the unit hadn't even been disabled! I showed them the pictures and they told me the pictures weren't even from my furnace. I'm sure you're very honest but there are a ton of companies out there who aren't honest and are just trying to scare their customers into getting a new system. Either way... I appreciate this video as it helps me understand one of the things to look for.
Same thing happened to me. Bogus photo and all. Thank God for the honest HVAC people out there.
How do you know the pictures were fake? Maybe the "honest" companies were just trying to win you over.
Finding a "cracked" heat exchanger turns a slow day to a busy day. A lot of people don't care who they hurt as long as things go good for them.
I had the same thing happen to me
Gas 3 Student here, this helped me better understand how to troubleshoot the heat exchanger 👍
Hello from Ontario 🇨🇦. My wife decided to call a technician to have a look at our furnace just to have an idea of the maintenance stage(We just bought the house 4 months ago). The technician came and said to us that it's a 21 years old furnace that never in it's life had seen a maintenance before, he told us that surprisingly the Burner still working fine, But his internal Camera found only 1 crack inside one Cells(circular hole) inside the heat exchange. He emited exactly this document that you said, he notified the gás company that we have a small leak and he shut down the gas of the heater. IT REALLY FELLS LIKE A SCAM until we done a lot of research on the internet(this video included) to find out that is better to emergency Spend 4 to 7 thousand than to have gás leaking inside your house that could kill you!!!
Thank you very much for this informative video Brother!!!!
Not a problem. That's definitely the best and safest way. You just have to make sure the tech is being honest. There are plenty of techs that use this as a selling technique and do scam people. Always ask for several pictures or even ask the tech to use the camera and let you watch as he shows you. Unfortunately, 60%-70% of guys abuse this method to their own advantage. I'm glad you guys had the inspection and are now safe.
the picture they showed you was probably not your furnace. They show the same picture to everyone
I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge, you should think about how many people’s health and lives you have saved with posting your video.
I used to be a auto tech before I had Lyme, I loved 🥰 actually showing people stuff like bad wheel brgs.
It saved families.
Co the silent killer your simple test , no arguments the heat exchanger is done. Thank you!
Thanks for this video. My heat wasn't working this morning so I investigated & discovered the rollout switch was bad. I bypassed it. Wrong mistake Don't do this on any safety switch especially on dealing with gas. I didn't realize the heat ex-changer was in very bad condition nor did i take the time to inspect. I was very blessed that a friend with more knowledge came by & looked more thoroughly & discovered that the heat-ex changer was very bad & advised me to not run it with the rollout switch bypassed. I'm very thankful that i listened because I could've killed everyone in my family & myself.
Great video. Would of been interesting to see the combustion analyzer data with this cracked heat exchanger as well. Thanks for vid
I’d suspect quite a bit of excess air
Now i fully understand why i spend so much with my hvac. My life and my families life rely on it during this cold winter nights. Thanks for the info.
Good job. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge
Thank you for showing me this. I had 2 inspections in the last few weeks. One showed(with a camera) a possible start of a crack in the heat exchanger. ALong with other repairs
Second one- they did not use a camera, told me about the same repairs as the first with the exception of the cracked heat exchanger. No camera was used UNTIL I showed the pic of the heat exchanger from first inspection. At that point, they got their camera and checked BUT the area they checked looked nothing like the first inspection pic. This one had a foil looking thing, the service manger told the tech that was insulation tape that had curled up, thus it is dangerous. I have an appointment for an estimate for replacement. I am not opposed to replacing if necessary but the 2 inspections told a different story. It is over $100 a pop for inspections so having another done may be futile.
I work in hvac. I am an installer and you would be surprised how many furnaces i replace have cracked heat exchangers. The threat is there and can go unnoticed for a long time. This can cause serious problems with your health and possibly can, given the rite amount of carbon monoxide through the cracks orcrack will kill you eventually. Great video!!!!
@John Voelker....I agree....I am a service tech, and those failures DO go unnoticed, even moreover, ignored.... I have gone to look at many units where the pvc vent pipe is black and flue gas smells real 'sour'. This is when immediate repairs or unit replacement has to happen....
We, as techs, get all the rapport then as being crooked or just trying to score work or a big sale, even after showing them the issue.
So, we cannot be so hard on ourselves when many of us are going out of our way to keep people safe, when it's the cheap 'poor' farmer in rural America who refuses to maintain his system.
@@toddberner9198 wow that's racist
My opinion - the average home owner at least needs to have a CO detector - most houses I'm in now do (not an installer, just a resident). But with the advent of declining prices for measuring tools, I'm getting a CO hand held detector so that I can monitor levels, even if they're not setting off the CO detector close to the vent.
@@toddberner9198 You're right but there are HVAC companies out there that are corrupt and will take advantage of people. My son worked at one of the biggest HVAC tech companies in this area for maybe 5 or 6 months and he would tell us some awful things he witnessed. He finally quit working there because he didn't want his name associated with them.
It’s a good idea to video document it with the date and time and showing a copy of your paperwork if you can in the video. This way it covers yourself should anything happen with them and they try to go to their insurance and blame you for some reason. customers can be ignorant and they just don’t wanna hear the truth of it. You can always tell a problem customer when you’re the third plumber to come there for the same problem and then they badmouth the plumber before them. I’ve ran into lots of customers like that.
Dead nuts correct. That brand has a clam shell heat exchanger and expands when the welds are rusted and cracked. It swells up, opens up and will blow the flames out usually. I had one still under warranty and that company wouldn’t send me one in January 2 years ago. The slogan is you cant stop a ????? I stopped the bastard and got another brand and will never recommend that company again. This dude is honest to the bone!!!
That’s a surprise for that brand. Those Trane’s usually hold their lifespan. Could’ve been due to a poor install as well possibly?
Excellent, been doing hvac for 40 years and found this a good tip.
Recently completed the heat exchanger experts class on brand specific failure point. What a great class and even better booklet that will lead you straight to where it's most likely to Crack based on what style heat exchanger it is
That would be extremely helpful
Great video! Perfectly executed, man. Great advice on what you should do first if you suspect a bad heat exchanger or even before you perform any maintenance on it; that's what I used to do. On the ignorance of customers, I totally get it. Don't you know what happened here, you ruined that all important bathroom or kitchen remodel that they wanted to do to impress their neighbors, friends and relatives with. They would rather take a chance and die of CO poisoning than give up that remodel. Shame on you for trying to save their lives. They either already had called someone else that told them the same thing or they're gonna call someone else that's gonna let them die so they can do that remodel. Don't you know that these are the idiots that the news channels interview(if they're lucky enough to be alive) that you're supposed to feel sorry for because they nearly got gassed, but they'll never, ever say that they were told to replace their furnace waaaay before this. I did HVAC for 25 years as my own company and I found the priority list for homeowners is something like this:
1) Kids secondary education
2) The dream vacation
3) Remodel kitchen
4) Remodel bathroom
5) Build-on to the home or put a deck on or pour a patio, then put a deck on(and they'll usually have an ignorant carpenter build it
over their AC or they'll do it themselves, then complain that "our damn AC is blowing hot air on us when we sit on the deck, can
you move it for $100?")
6) New car
7) New toy(jet ski, speed boat, Harley Davidson or other motorcycle, Classic car rebuild, fun-mobile, camper, etc)
8) Man cave
...
100) Replace furnace and AC? Huh? What? Why the hell would we want to keep or asses warm in the winter and cool in the
summer, we've got better things to spend our money on, don't you know that?
This is exactly what I was talking about when I posted in your 'Wrong Piston Size' concerning my HVAC experiences with respect to customers.
Now YOU'RE the bad guy!
The point is they'd rather spend their money on anything other than replacing the furnace and AC, and that's a fact, brother. Oh, and these are the same customers that will call you when it's freezing-ass cold because their furnace isn't working, just before you and the family are headed out the door to go on YOUR dream vacation; and you'll say to your wife: "Well honey, gonna have to cancel, maybe next year". OH MAN, I could go on and on about why you should look for another job, but you probably don't want to hear it! So, goodbye and good luck.
Here's hoping you can hold onto your sanity!
My 17 year old Goodman just starting doing this, thanks for confirming what the tech said.
Thank You, Sir! Be Blessed!
Josh, you did the right thing. I would've shut 'em down as well.
Like you said, it's not about money; it's about safety.
Saving lives.
When he sees that cracked heat exchanger while it's being removed and replaced, and Googles the severe consequences that a cracked heat exchanger can have when left unchecked, he'll be thanking you afterwards.
Until then, thank YOU for posting this video.
Hopefully, a lot of people will watch it, and become more consciously aware of what's going on inside the privacy of their own home.
Thank you for doing the right thing for these people. They’ll learn that you were being honest soon enough. Hopefully, they’ll contact you to share their gratitude.
I agree it’s best to do your due diligence, there’s only so much you can do for the customers sake if they don’t take it into consideration. Regardless very informative video thank you!
the dancing flame live and in person. I feel way smarter than I really am watching this. thanks for the education !
Great advice. It was an unsafe piece of equipment and you were totally in the right to disable it
Learned recently that if you see the flame turn orange and whip around a bit when the blower kicks on, turn down the gas pressure a bit, turn the system off, and shop vac the the burners and surrounding area. I had one where the blower kicking on would vibrate loose dust and rattle the burner making it look like a bad heat exchanger. I pulled the blower out and didn't see any problems with the heat exchanger.
Why “turn in the gas pressure down” why not jus shut the gas off completely while you do this maintenance you speak of friend?
@@MathCuriousity I honestly don't understand this comment I made years ago. If the flame is whipping around when the blower kicks on it is either because there is a crack in the heat exchanger or there are particles vibrating into the flame.
I had a tech come out and perform a "Combustion Test". He was in and out in under 15m with my furnace red flagged and a team ready to come quote a new one. Had another guy come out and do a combustion test also and as he performed it he was telling me what he is looking for and sure enough my furnace was fine. Turned out to be a crayon that fell in the vents and landed on top of the exchanger that was creating an oder which was the original reason for the call.. It sucks these dishonest techs make you honest guys jobs so much harder!
I always do a combustion test also and it print out the results to give to the customer and I keep a copy. In a lot of cases the heat exchanger is cracked and the whole House fan does not change the flame signature on the burners. Need to be careful turning off a circuit breaker to the furnace as somewhere in that line somebody could have piggybacked on it to run something else in the home like a sump pump! Keep up the good work.
How does a sump pump work? What do they do relative to furnace system?
Can you still run the system and install carbon monoxide detectors near it and elsewhere? Since ive heard you can run it sometimes if the cracks are minor and that there is a built-in shut-off if it detects carbon monoxide? Obviously, if they go off, shut the system down, but one hvac guy told me my system had a built-in shut off in case of that.
I usually just disconnect the W wire, and disconnect the flame sensor/draft, as well as shut off gas to prevent the unit from running. Thanks for the content, CO kills silently, always a good idea to lock these deadly systems out!
What is a “W” switch and a “flame sensor” ?
Does the flame sensor allow the valve for gas to open? And what’s the “W” switch?
Thaks for showing me how it looks like big help for me.
We literally had this exact scenario at my company yesterday. The lady did not want to believe it. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. She did not want to believe us either. We had pictures and showed her as well.
Had to condemn a Goodman 3 weeks ago. Went to a cleaning and turned it on... flame rolled out when the blower turned on for a sec so I went to a vent and it was pumping out co.
Great job. Great illustration. Thank you
Good catch on a pm most likely avoided catastrophic incident especially if co alarms we're not in operating order.😔✌️😊🤙
Absolutely disable furnace gas off / pressure switch hose removed / remove & cap W wire many ways to disable one & red tag it..then write up disclaimers on invoice explaining why its been red tagged & disabled ..Great Job Thanks for sharing
What’s a “pressure switch hose”? You mean just turn the gas valve off?! And what’s a “W” switch?
Honestly i cant blame the folks for not trusting companies. There are a lot of bad folks out there in the game purely for the money and its sometimes impossible to figure out whose trying to screw you. . The fixes on these furnaces and condenser units are ridiculously expensive and most average folks dont have 6000 plus laying around and never will. I make decent money and i couldnt afford one of these at the drop of a hat and i dont believe in financing anything but a house and or vehicle. Good thing it dossnt get to cold in southern nevada. Appreciate thd vids on how this stuff works incase i need to shadow a repairman ond day to see if he is bullshitting md or not.
Yeah, I appreciate the safety aspect, but I’d immediately think “ scam.” And it’s a shame that the industry has allowed bad players to scam the shit out of folks. It be nice if the utility company could have a way of sending a more official examiner out to agree with the finding, so someone would know for sure. Don’t be stupid and end up in a bad way but watch your back to.
Thanks for the information. Appreciate what you do!
Wonderful explanation. Clear and concise.
I have to go look at my mom's furnace tomorrow I will check it the same way you did. thanks for the info. It's an exchanger hard to replace I am a mechanic and I autobody Teck? I would think I could pull it off.
Nice first cracked exchanger I had thu the roll out consistently about every 2days took me a bit but it finally dawned on me.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge 🙏 😊
Good find! 👍
Sniped that ankh on your hand. Nice work brother
I Red Tag the furnace, turn off gas at appliance and place the tag over the shutoff ( followed up by a certified letter ) by policy every time and note that on my electronic work order. I work for a natural gas utility. If I get any indication that Joe homeowner is going to try to turn it back on himself, I lock the meter and it's only going back on when the contractor is standing there with me.
Great policy.
What’s a “W” wire and pressure switch? Some are saying disable those too?
Great video...This is all I needed to see to know that' what' wrong with mine, just sucks I have to buy a new furnace now...
Yea like 2k
..excellent! Thank you for the education.
Thank you! This should be made into a Public Service Announcement. I’m sure people don’t realize this potential hazard a) we don’t watch our flames from the furnace & probably wouldn’t know if there was something “odd” about them and b) probably lots of us aren’t faithful with having HVAC systems checked routinely. Question: I have a carbon monoxide detector upstairs but should I put one in the basement as well? Not sure how CO travels but wondering if it’s initiating from the furnace, maybe a detector downstairs could alert us faster??🤷🏻♀️ Thank you again for your insight!
As long as it is by a vent in the home. The C0 would be traveling through the ductwork and into the home.
@@HVACTechTips Makes total sense now that you’ve said it 🙄. Mine is not near a vent. Will move it tomorrow. Thanks for your help!
I was thinking the same thing, so I installed our detector on an outlet that is just next to our furnace. I did that right after I replaced our heat exchanger. I guess I did a good job, it's been at least 3 years and no alarms so far!
This one of my reasons why that it should be illegal to install gas furnaces in attic space or for that matter in crawl spaces. How can the average homeowner monitor, to the best of their ability, the operation of the furnace. This is why I installed a Mitsubishi VFR heat pump system. No gas, no flames, no exhaust.
Evidence? Maybe they think the evidence is fake... thanks for the good tip!
Great video thanks for the tip.
Great advise towards the end of the video
I’d do the same thing you just did Josh. Sometimes you got to save people from themselves if you can. Carbon monoxide poisoning is nothing to mess with. Deadly Deadly.
I do hvac work on the side and in a situation like that I would have done the same thing with something like that the people in a resident can go to sleep and never wake up thangs like that does happen I have seen it when I was in the fire and rescue squad if the first hvac repair technician tells the heat exchanger is cracked don't mess with it if you don't feel comfortable with what the first technician tells you then get a second opinion you and your family's life matters it's very serious and nothing to mess with.
see but i absolutely get both sides. your essentially trying to save their lives by disabling the heater till its replaced. but thats alot of money. im in a similar situation and i probably have to move 😂 i own a house and dont have the money to replace the heater and winters comming. so i can understand wanting a way to repair it. thats how i found your video.
spent all night trouble shooting it myself and mines either clogged or cracked. and i say clogged cause we had rodents this summer as the heat was off.
im somewhat suspicious a mouse or some got in to the heater. which i dont even know if that would be enough to cause blowback.
alls i know is i cant afford a new heater lol. can maybe afford little space ones till winter but when its 30 below out thats not gonna cut it.
Thanks for posting this. We have one like it and seems to have some flame roll back. The flu vent is clear, How would i check for cracks? Thanks again
Great camera work. Keep it up.
That furnace is gonna take that whole family out damn
Great video & right on point.
Wow. Thanks for showing this!!
Excellent video! Thank you!
Excellent, thanks for the info.
Excellent for checking for a bad heat exchanger on a gas furance.11/5/2021
Great video nice work an good info!!!
Newbie question here: This is a propane furnace in the video, yes? I have an oil furnace (so I assume it's different), and when the furnace guy came and fired it up, smoke rolled out of the top. Tech said it was the heat exchanger, and we needed a new furnace ($7,700). According to his boss, the heat exchanger is no longer available to purchase. Would you recommend trying to: A) fix the heat exchanger (find the hole(s), maybe patch with JB Weld? (Again, newbie here so keep that in mind), B) finding a used non-functioning furnace and swapping out the heat exchanger, (after testing it for leaks) or c) Just junking this one and trying to find another used furnace. I'm just trying not to freeze this winter up here in the woods of Maine. Thank you!
Do not jb weld it, you’ll have more in labor to even attempt
To swap the heat exchanger from a used one. Which is probably in the same state as your current one.
Yeah it sucks and it’s expensive. But stay alive, have a brand new unit installed but a qualified installer.
Any of those ideas you posted can possible kill you or your family from CO.
@@wperro81 Thank you.
...also could just be dirty/blocked turbinators in the secondary heat exchanger... can also verify with a gas meter to detect any CO2 if it's bad enough.
There was no secondary. This is a 80% furnace. But yes, a blocked secondary would cause the same symptoms.
What’s a “turbinator” and why what’s an “80” percent furnace,?
@@MathCuriousity they are the long, bent pieces of metal that slide into the tubes in the secondary heat exchanger. They help with movement of air. 80% would be 80% efficiency.
You look like a douche
How does one first identify that there s a problem with the boiler?
Does the cracked heat exchanger give some signs there's a problem before even having to check it out?
Thanks for sharing!
At my company we have a waiver that they sign if we find a comprised heat exchanger. Assuming they want to continue running it.
Otherwise if they refuse we turn off the gas to the furnace, turn off power, disconnect the igniter, and take at least one hose off the pressure switch, and call the county to let them know this home has a faulty furnace running and the home owner has decided to not sign a waiver and could possibly try to run the furnace. Which we then cover our bases with the county to waive responsibility at that point as well.
Thank you!
Great Video! right to the point
as a non-furnace guy, I hope the outside burners suck most of that back in and send it out of the flue.
Sitting here next to a 1983 sears 80% furnace that's in a house I got 16 years ago. Home inspector said "it will need replacing immediately". It has never needed any service in 16 years, but will be on the outs this year because the A/C that goes with it is unaffordable charge wise and gives me double the electric bills I got two years ago in need of R12 or 22 or whatever it is.
at any rate, my HVAC company, who checks out the unit every three years or so is chomping at the bit to replace it, but even they admit the furnace is in really good shape.
I use a aiming flame with the blower motor running it will push the flame back or turn it off.
I have been smelling small amounts of exhaust but it's a clean burn with no CO alerting the alarms. I turned the furnace off and turned the blower on, when I put my hand over the exhaust vent it sucks air in. I put a 3 gallon plastic bag over it and it sucked it shut in about 40 seconds. Just had furnace repair guys here for inspection told them about it but they never checked the heat exchange do you think this could be the cause? When he was done with the inspection and I showed him the suction he said I don't know give us a call back if you think you need a repair.
Nice video! What tape can I use to hold heat exchanger insulation?
Great Tip!
I guess people dont care about their lives. Good on you for disabling
a cracked heat exchanger kept blowing my pilot light out....can jb weld be used as a fix?
Isn't it enough to shut off the utility and fuel source and tagging appliance?
My flame shoots out the front big ball fire comes out but dose the same in the video u show I only shut the gas off on it do I need to pull an do what u all did
Hey, my furnace was shutdown for a bad heat exchanger and leaking gas values. Is this fixable or is a new furnace justified? A tech said it’s not fixable.
Awesome thank you
Thanks buddy
is this an XR80?
whats the symptom of this or do u never know until its checked?
Great video thank you for the info
Wonder how it wasn’t triggering the pressure switch in as a error code. Usually a fault saying (Open).
if your furnace has a crack and Carbin monoxide is going into the house, wouldn't the Co Alarm go off?
Great video. Is this same with high efficiency? How to tell if its primary or secondary exchanger? Just with camera?
Without having to do a visual inspection just watch the burners first 🧐 🙈🔥
What kind of maintaince these furnaces required?
I have 4 carbon monoxide detectors in my house would all carbon monoxide detectors go off ?
I have 4 smoke detectors in my house.
Awesome video brother 💯💯💯💯💯
I appreciate it
Wont a combustion test tell if its a bad heat exchanger?
heh we said "wow" at same time. my roll out trips after several days of use. I don't think I have this problem, maybe, but something is wrong according to my nose.
Another reason I am happy to have a heat pump.
Hi homeowner here. Worried I may have a crack in my heat exchanger. Can I just turn my furnace off till my hvac person gets here to prevent carbon monoxide?
Love it 😊
What’s in mean if the burners go out?
I had the same problem with my furnace(heat exchanger).but furnace still working fine for now, should I keep using it for now? any problems?pls let me know. Thanks.
Get a carbon monoxide detector we ran ours for a month that's how long it took to get the replacement heat exchanger under warranty. Ours was cracked and leaking water.
Would this cause a rumbling sound?
The way they form heat exchangers work hardens some areas of the heat exchanger and will crack..
Carry April air monoxide detector and sell them one with instructions on placement.... People just can't afford new equipment. Every few years.
Roll outs can be caused by long exhaust runs and must be double coached by cycling unit sever times .
Good job
Shouldn't the roll back sensor shut off the furnace with that much roll back?
You’d think
@@Kiddro22 that would be awful to have a double failure the heat exchanger and the roll back sensor and get gassed.