Krista was a great guest. Quite insightful. This show is really needed in the esports industry, no one does it better than you guys. Thank you. Keep exposing them.
@@horstschlemmer9578 True, but atleast they give it a proper spotlight so people can see how fcked is that some1 suicided because of harrasment and bad treatment.
I am struggling with a situation like this at my workplace.. :( thank you Monte, Thorin, Richard, and Krista. My supervisor/superior engages with some of my coworkers and I don’t know what to do.. :(
@@guapteezy Thank you, I have reported him to my manager. of course there is “no rule” when it comes to the executive chef dating a server.. So he is kind of getting off on a technicality.. its a shame because he doesn’t realize the power dynamic. Also he doesn’t realize the lack of an example he is setting.. :/ my manager has said that I could get a transfer to another site. but wtf how is he just going to keep getting away with this? :/ ugh
@@joshahyu it's rough in food service, cause a lot of times there aren't explicit protections against stuff like that unless the business owner puts it in writing. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this!
This episode really opened my eyes on the many issues plaguing even some of my old work environments. I hope all the women get the justice they deserve at activision blizzard
@@ginkamikaze2 You were so close to an important realization but you had to blow it in the end. The more logical conclusion you should draw from this is that "Wokeness" is an aesthetic that corporations adopt because it makes them look good which makes them money. This should tell you that corporations are soulless processes of revenue acquisition that don't stand for anything, not whatever nonsensical outdated take about "wokeness" you want to bring into this.
@@ZlatkoTheGod I do think that there is some correlation in the fact that those who consider themselves the wokest often end up being guilty of exactly what they are attacking others about. They become ultra aggressive at accusing others of the most heinous things, because they themselves are guilty of doing the things they are accusing others of so it is easier to assume that the sins they commit are also being done by others (politicians do this all the time as well). This happens a lot with men who tout themselves as a "women's activist" when in reality they use their good deeds as an excuse to shut up women who they are harrassing bc "if you rat on me, you are ruining all the good that is being done for x all over the world." Look up Ravi Zacharias (a prominent preacher), he would often convince the women that the abuse harrassment needed to be hidden bc he was doing so much good for his religion. Absolutely despicable but its something people need to be aware of so they can report these things and catch them early then to wait to find out the sad truth later down the line.
@@ZlatkoTheGod i mean enterprises' objective are always the same, which is literally *making money* . Why people assume (or even worse, _expect_ ) otherwise is beyond my understanding. Corporations are soulless? no fucking shit, rocks are too.
Thank God for you guys. It's crazy the amount of gaslighting going on with "media" and "journalists" overall in America. People are so comfortable with throwing morals, principals, and ethics out the window to get that next exclusive. On top of that you have these idiots and children on social media that just eat it up and regurgitate corporate talking points like it's a 5head take. The amount of arrogance behind their ignorance is unreal.
legal talk has always been the most interesting "esports related" topic for me, even more than the business side ( although often related). thankfully it rarely comes up
Well I'm a bit late but I had to say that this is simply the best show you have. I like summoning insight as much as the best guy but this show always just hits right. Hope to see it back soon!
I think this issue goes deeper than company culture. It is a direct reflection of who these executives and managers are as people. We all know the typical gamer stereotype of the guy that’s socially inept, awkward with women, and a coward. That’s who these people are. The weirdos that prey upon these women are also the same people that can’t hold a conversation with a woman outside of the manager/employee setting. Truly sad people.
It's a shame that utter lunacy in the esports industry is what is required to summon the horseman. Love you guys and the depth and scope of discussion you guys bring to all the topics that summon you.
Adding to Richard's point about HR - they are extremely rarely there 'to support you' in your workplace. That department is like a magnet for interfering weirdos and terminally jobsworth-minded Company People. Their responsibility is FAR more to the company than to the individual employees and it would traditionally have been your union rep that you'd approach where your HR was found lacking.
It’s crazy how often horrible things like this occur within the esports/gaming industry. it’s becoming unsurprising when new scandals arise. sad state of affairs.
Is anyone really surprised that this is so frequent in the gaming industry...let's make no mistake about it, up until a decade ago gamers, gaming, being a game developer, want to work on games was seen by the opposite sex as something only losers would be into...we can safely assume most of them were socially awkward nerds in high school, probably virgins well into their 20s, and now they're using their minimal authority to harass women in their companies... Riot, Blizzard, Activision, and every other gaming company is just full of frustrated incels Sick rant from Richard from 52:00 btw
Be more specific and say that gamers who felt guilty of only being able to play video games as a mean of social interaction are doing this now. I have been a gamer for 30 years and i like playing alone. I never gamed to interact with people. I gamed to escape from them. Also look at who plays video games know and who are these games catered to. Everyone is a gamer nowadays for some reason and these gaming companies made gaming a social interaction tool and player behavior modifier tool. Not like i did not make friends while gaming, but that happened because of our mutual love and respect for gaming. Not because we were craving for it. Every AAA games are a disgrace now and these so called gamers hail them as a the greatest game ever made. They empower these incompetent so called gamers to make shitty games and get away with it.
On the point of not sharing when you know. I’ve had women confide in me about sexual harassment and ask me not to say anything. And I’ve kept that secret for them until they were ready to share it and then once they did I supported them and backed them. However, the people doing it for clout on social media likely are scumbags. In my case I was doing it to protect the women until they were ready to pursue it and make it public.
with every situation like this, the answer is clearer and clearer. the employees need to unionize. the union can protect you against retaliation and give an outlet to stories like this and protect employees in situations where they would be powerless alone
Hell no. That's just out of the fire into a frying pan, no thank you. Unions are largely responsible for scumbag employees escaping punishment for their harmful behaviour, whether it's teachers, police, construction, etc. A game dev union would just add another layer of difficulty and middleman graft to resolving anything.
@@ohwnosrepeht Americans talking about unions is so fucking funny to me. Unions being misused by institutions like the police is an entirely different case.
As an European who worked in an American company implanted in Europe (that was making medical equipment), I can tell that the "cult" thing and the toxic mentality is not limited to the gaming industry at all, it is very much widespread across most giant American companies. After working with many European companies (good and bad ones), this was a very different experience to work in an American company and I was very surprised about how different the culture was and how sexism and predatory behaviors were so much more common there. Eventually I had to quit because I couldn't handle it anymore. The weird thing is that the people working there were mostly European. But the company's culture was very much promoting this kind of toxic work environment and it seemed to influence them in an insidious way. And the company was far from being a videogame company.
My girlfriend is American and so much of the garbage that was outlined in this video I have heard from her about her company too. Every big corporate job is obviously so rotten to the core in America
Thank you for the heavy conversation of issues in our culture, may our actions lead us to a brighter future where people can feel safe to pursue their dreams ^__^;; sexuality should be expressed, not forced :] Good luck and I hope to see you again!
I strongly recommend anyone keeping up with this issue to watch Hoeg Law's video on the subject (as well) where hes goes over the whole document in pretty heavy detail. If accusing Blizzard of intentionally and maliciously going after women with the intent harm and harass them isn't punching below the belt, then I'm not sure what is. It's one very bad thing for that to happen to people at a company, it's a whole different thing to then accuse that company of actively, maliciously and intentionally going after said people. What is and has been happening there is awful and the people responsible for it should be held to account for their actions, but I'm not convinced it rises to the level that the state of California suggests. edit: added the (as well) line. Apologies to Thooorin, Monty, Richard, and Krista. It was not my intent to take anything away from this video, just another video i thought was well done on the topic. Love what all you guys do, don't stop for anyone or anything!
Unionising in earnest is something all employee's in these circumstances should explore. I know how fiercely these companies go about union-busting, but union membership/collective bargaining for better working conditions is essential. They're your employers, not your family. Not your friends. Don't take anything for granted and don't proceed on faith. Declining union membership has had a huge knock-on effect on employee freedoms and satisfaction.
i feel like they tried harder to include her than with some of the user guests, so that's something, I guess... But I think they had to cut her off a couple times because she kept revolving around the same few bullet points and got a little rambly when talking for longer stretches. Not bashing Krista here - I'd do much worse in her position for sure.
Loved the episode and appreciate the different takes & experiences. As someone that might enter the industry as a starting designer, do you have advice on how to reliably steer clear of scummy companies like that?
I think i could go 20 lifetimes before hearing a dude make a joke about a carpet looking like a celebrities clothing, let alone make it an event within a friend group.
It's so hilarious seeing Thorin and Richard Lewis, two gamergaters who spent years downplaying sexism in the gaming industry, now all of a sudden pretending like they care about sexual harassment in the gaming industry. Piss off.
Around the 1 hour mark... (Tbf, I live in Europe, but I don't think the country really matters) Everywhere I've worked so far there's been either an in-building cantina or one very close by where the company made some deal for cheaper meals for the employees etc., AND a room with microwave ovens and some tables. People gotta eat and don't necessarily have the desire, time or money to go out for lunch every day. It's not at all surprising that a company as big as Blizzard would have an on-campus cantina/cafeteria, lmfao. Nor is it cult-like for employees to not leave during work hours. In fact, everywhere I've worked so far, people only went just outside the building to get some fresh air & sun or to smoke during breaks. Where the fuck does Monte expect people to go while at work? wtf The only reason these things would impact your social life is if you either have none from the get go or work so many hours that you can't have one. Both likely in the gaming industry, but those aspects (cafeteria & not leaving during work hours) are completely normal. I've never worked anywhere where the women were with guys from the company. That's been very rare. (and no, I've never worked in the gaming industry or software development in general)
krista was great as a guest. also this topic itself being discussed is great as blizzard has gotten away with so much of their bullshit over the past years it's ridiculous
The real question that all this really makes me think about though, is at what point can we say that we like the game, we like the product, but we don't want to support the company behind it when their culture is like this? Is there just nothing at all any of us can do to do...anything? Where are my esports for games without such rampant bullshit in every skeleton-filled closet?
why do you, as a consumer, have to do shit when the workers that witness it do nothing? like, literally i'd expect any company that behaves like this to suffer massive employee exodus, yet it's the first time something is done about it.
Even if the case is won by the employees, its not really solving anything. Like you said: who would be dumb enough to put it im writing. That "culture" of people in positions of power abusing their power is a part of human nature and as such, pervasive in any society. So that's the real question, where in our society is it not taught that its not ok to use position and power to treat our fellow man as a lesser being? Until we can address that and fix our society, it will just keep happening and keep getting harder to prosecute as the lessons are learned by those who would abuse others.
very interesting and shocking. Luckily from my short personal experience working in a young mobile game company I can't say I have seen any such behaviour there and I hope it didn't happen
Where I live we're so far removed from any of this making news and being talked/written about for more than one day. These people are narcissists whose disorder is key to filling the positions they are in. They see interactions they initiate (with women) as an exercise in power and a rite of passage in terms of company culture. Business as usual. Perks of climbing the ladder. On a tangent, historical/cultural premise of marriage as a primarly transactional relationship is ingrained in fundaments of every society.
@Lucas Schult Please tell dozens of my female coworkers over the years how society is functioning on the backs of them trying to raise children mostly on their own while having a full time job and a husband incapable/unwilling of doing any housework. I'm sure they will feel better for it. Sure, it's slowly changing for the better but certainly not for the sake of upholding the traditional values.
@@Agaryunaer so you're saying men are "incapable/unwilling of doing any housework" because of marriage. How do you explain that men that are capable/willing to do such housework exist then?
I was blown away when she said she's 35, i could have sworn should could pass for a college student. Great show with very important topics that needed to addressed. Big companies think they can pull off frat house behaviour because they made it, sickening that this shit gets swept under the rug until the State itself gets involved. The year is 2021 and sexism and racism are still at full force, mind blowing.
This episode is such a fucking downer in the best possible way. Like, going over all the legal aspects like Hoeg Law does is one thing and has a certain level of mental distance to it, but a few industry veterans just laying the whole game out on the table is extremely eye-opening
the journalists they are talking about are not investigative journalists anymore they are just another advertising avenues for company's at this point?
To add to the Cosby photo. No one around me knew about the allegations about Cosby until 2014 when it blew up. I can totally believe what Monty is saying and I think Richard is just being a little too over zealous about that one specific incident.
It was not mainstream, but it was still known. I’d compare it to the tiger woods situation… people knew he was a party animal/sex addict. It just took that one event to get it mainstream.
Wait so they spend an hour and a half talking shit about people for not going public about sexual harassment and then monte tells a story he’s never gone public before?? Typical hypocrite
I don't know which middle management he is referring to as mediocre. If it's a dev middle management, i can assure you they are far far away from being mediocre. The programmers at Riot are very high level, probably the level of Google. And i really don't agree with the power dynamic here. If you are a programmer female or not, you have dozens of companies to chose from that all pay 200-300k + stock options + bonus + other benefits. You are not stuck at Riot by any means.
loved every episode so far. had to pause 2 hours 12 min though where Monty is telling people to grow the fuck up and date people from outside the indsutry? excuuuuuuuse me (Sam Davis shout out) That was some super hypocritical shit there Monty.
bruh, you completely miss the point. these people have NEVER dated in their adult life outside the industry because they CAN'T. monte is incredibly worldly if you werent aware, no criticism but hes literally spent large amounts of time in south america, korea, etc strictly to expand his worldview. he ended up finding someone in the industry by chance, not because they were in the industry if that makes sense
its a bit weird that the lawyer was brought on but not much legal thoughts were heard, its kinda obvious that the view of "what they are signing up for" differs between male and female participants and thorin and monte seem to be victim to that mentality as well, i dont think the social ineptitude is wholly on the male side but the female side appear socially inept as well raising to such situations coz the wrong message is communicated, but the responsibility definitely falls on the male since they are in authority and have the power dynamics in their favour.
@@m8s96 nah its that women need to learn how to protect themselves and be informed of these possible situations instead of being ignorant of them and walking into them coz their parents and seniors didnt bother explaining it or kept them in the dark
I know you guys lean towards cynicism and don't hide your true feelings, which I enjoy, but this Richard Lewis dude really added a vitriolic air to this episode that I really didn't like and I wasn't sure how Krista felt about it. The general atmosphere from him was one of aggression and over the top negativity and I wouldn't be surprised if she was uncomfortable with his tirades at times. His lack of self awareness when talking about how the kids today don't have the street smarts nowadays compared to when he was in his youth is a classic old duffer cliche and his tales of white knighting behaviour came across a bit too much like he was trying too hard. On top of this the 'humanity is fucked' comment re China just smacks of someone who seems incredibly bitter.
You made up a fan fiction about people you don't know. Maybe you're not the one to be making judgments about people's personalities since as you're a delusional weirdo.
They can be sued for defamation/libel if they don’t go through the proper legal channels etc. Even if it is toothless these companies can financially drain an individual person by throwing lawsuits at them
They were literally blacklisted by these companies. Stupid fucking kids just won't listen because either daddy riot and blizzard is releasing a new wow expansion and a new skin or they are too busy checking in if they are blocked by either thorin or RL.
How can you watch a video on this topic, and come away thinking something like this? Mentalities like this is a huge part of the issue discussed. Like come on...
Krista was a great guest. Quite insightful. This show is really needed in the esports industry, no one does it better than you guys. Thank you. Keep exposing them.
Krista was great, you should have her on again if the topic warrants it.
With a better mic setup please (or better audio production)
4 horsemen you are the best. Spitting truth after truth, fact after fact. Keep it up. This industry NEEDS you guys.
These days its always banger episode after banger episode
@@ivoprinc In a way kinda sad as well. Because this kind of fcked up shit has to happen for these episodes.
@@horstschlemmer9578 True, but atleast they give it a proper spotlight so people can see how fcked is that some1 suicided because of harrasment and bad treatment.
Am I the only one that thought 'TSM' when she asked 'what idiot would write that down?'
And afterwards the fans will blame the keyboard provider XD "how dare you give them keyboards"
@@TheKoifisch must have been lenovo keyboards smh TSM just cant catch a break, truly
The definitive esports podcast.
I am struggling with a situation like this at my workplace.. :( thank you Monte, Thorin, Richard, and Krista. My supervisor/superior engages with some of my coworkers and I don’t know what to do.. :(
Brother, you should report him first if possible and otherwise document and record anything you can and talk to a labor board
@@guapteezy Thank you, I have reported him to my manager. of course there is “no rule” when it comes to the executive chef dating a server.. So he is kind of getting off on a technicality.. its a shame because he doesn’t realize the power dynamic. Also he doesn’t realize the lack of an example he is setting.. :/ my manager has said that I could get a transfer to another site. but wtf how is he just going to keep getting away with this? :/ ugh
@@joshahyu it's rough in food service, cause a lot of times there aren't explicit protections against stuff like that unless the business owner puts it in writing. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this!
Yeah, I knew this was bringing out The Horsemen
I was waiting for it!
The cavalry has arrived.
Thorin immediately calling out Riot Employees for using their position made me so happy.
This episode really opened my eyes on the many issues plaguing even some of my old work environments. I hope all the women get the justice they deserve at activision blizzard
funny how the wokest companies are the most egregious cases... you can almost infer that being woke is akin to a mental illness...
@@ginkamikaze2 You were so close to an important realization but you had to blow it in the end.
The more logical conclusion you should draw from this is that "Wokeness" is an aesthetic that corporations adopt because it makes them look good which makes them money. This should tell you that corporations are soulless processes of revenue acquisition that don't stand for anything, not whatever nonsensical outdated take about "wokeness" you want to bring into this.
@@ZlatkoTheGod I do think that there is some correlation in the fact that those who consider themselves the wokest often end up being guilty of exactly what they are attacking others about. They become ultra aggressive at accusing others of the most heinous things, because they themselves are guilty of doing the things they are accusing others of so it is easier to assume that the sins they commit are also being done by others (politicians do this all the time as well). This happens a lot with men who tout themselves as a "women's activist" when in reality they use their good deeds as an excuse to shut up women who they are harrassing bc "if you rat on me, you are ruining all the good that is being done for x all over the world." Look up Ravi Zacharias (a prominent preacher), he would often convince the women that the abuse harrassment needed to be hidden bc he was doing so much good for his religion. Absolutely despicable but its something people need to be aware of so they can report these things and catch them early then to wait to find out the sad truth later down the line.
@@ZlatkoTheGod i mean enterprises' objective are always the same, which is literally *making money* . Why people assume (or even worse, _expect_ ) otherwise is beyond my understanding. Corporations are soulless? no fucking shit, rocks are too.
Thank God for you guys. It's crazy the amount of gaslighting going on with "media" and "journalists" overall in America.
People are so comfortable with throwing morals, principals, and ethics out the window to get that next exclusive. On top of that you have these idiots and children on social media that just eat it up and regurgitate corporate talking points like it's a 5head take. The amount of arrogance behind their ignorance is unreal.
Best guest so far, really knowledgeable on the topic good shit
lol
Finally some educated takes on the matter
Thanks for the hugely important work you guys do. Krista was great as a guest
HR works for the company, not for you. I've never had an experience with HR where they actually supported me over senior management or CEO level.
I mean you just gotta ask who's paying them?
Pretty sure Gross Gore called out that 'league of honeys' bullshit and got pretty much shut out of the league community for it.
Gross Gore is also a rather vile person too, how ironic.
legal talk has always been the most interesting "esports related" topic for me, even more than the business side ( although often related). thankfully it rarely comes up
Well I'm a bit late but I had to say that this is simply the best show you have. I like summoning insight as much as the best guy but this show always just hits right. Hope to see it back soon!
I think this issue goes deeper than company culture. It is a direct reflection of who these executives and managers are as people. We all know the typical gamer stereotype of the guy that’s socially inept, awkward with women, and a coward. That’s who these people are. The weirdos that prey upon these women are also the same people that can’t hold a conversation with a woman outside of the manager/employee setting. Truly sad people.
It's a shame that utter lunacy in the esports industry is what is required to summon the horseman. Love you guys and the depth and scope of discussion you guys bring to all the topics that summon you.
Why have i never heard of this podcast? Glad i found it. Keep doing the good work.
Ricardo Lui. Looking great.
Adding to Richard's point about HR - they are extremely rarely there 'to support you' in your workplace. That department is like a magnet for interfering weirdos and terminally jobsworth-minded Company People. Their responsibility is FAR more to the company than to the individual employees and it would traditionally have been your union rep that you'd approach where your HR was found lacking.
It’s crazy how often horrible things like this occur within the esports/gaming industry. it’s becoming unsurprising when new scandals arise. sad state of affairs.
I’m so sick of hearing about this shit because it is so saturated…. But I’m definitely listening to this one.
She is incredible. Please have more of her.
It would be nice if they never had to have her on The Four Horsemen again too. Win/Win?
Is anyone really surprised that this is so frequent in the gaming industry...let's make no mistake about it, up until a decade ago gamers, gaming, being a game developer, want to work on games was seen by the opposite sex as something only losers would be into...we can safely assume most of them were socially awkward nerds in high school, probably virgins well into their 20s, and now they're using their minimal authority to harass women in their companies...
Riot, Blizzard, Activision, and every other gaming company is just full of frustrated incels
Sick rant from Richard from 52:00 btw
Be more specific and say that gamers who felt guilty of only being able to play video games as a mean of social interaction are doing this now. I have been a gamer for 30 years and i like playing alone. I never gamed to interact with people. I gamed to escape from them. Also look at who plays video games know and who are these games catered to. Everyone is a gamer nowadays for some reason and these gaming companies made gaming a social interaction tool and player behavior modifier tool. Not like i did not make friends while gaming, but that happened because of our mutual love and respect for gaming. Not because we were craving for it. Every AAA games are a disgrace now and these so called gamers hail them as a the greatest game ever made. They empower these incompetent so called gamers to make shitty games and get away with it.
On the point of not sharing when you know. I’ve had women confide in me about sexual harassment and ask me not to say anything. And I’ve kept that secret for them until they were ready to share it and then once they did I supported them and backed them. However, the people doing it for clout on social media likely are scumbags. In my case I was doing it to protect the women until they were ready to pursue it and make it public.
with every situation like this, the answer is clearer and clearer. the employees need to unionize. the union can protect you against retaliation and give an outlet to stories like this and protect employees in situations where they would be powerless alone
Hell no. That's just out of the fire into a frying pan, no thank you. Unions are largely responsible for scumbag employees escaping punishment for their harmful behaviour, whether it's teachers, police, construction, etc. A game dev union would just add another layer of difficulty and middleman graft to resolving anything.
@@ohwnosrepeht Americans talking about unions is so fucking funny to me. Unions being misused by institutions like the police is an entirely different case.
Great guest! Very articulate and knowledgeable.
Amazing episode. You guys are doing great and much needed work for e-sports
As an European who worked in an American company implanted in Europe (that was making medical equipment), I can tell that the "cult" thing and the toxic mentality is not limited to the gaming industry at all, it is very much widespread across most giant American companies. After working with many European companies (good and bad ones), this was a very different experience to work in an American company and I was very surprised about how different the culture was and how sexism and predatory behaviors were so much more common there. Eventually I had to quit because I couldn't handle it anymore. The weird thing is that the people working there were mostly European. But the company's culture was very much promoting this kind of toxic work environment and it seemed to influence them in an insidious way. And the company was far from being a videogame company.
My girlfriend is American and so much of the garbage that was outlined in this video I have heard from her about her company too. Every big corporate job is obviously so rotten to the core in America
Thank you for the heavy conversation of issues in our culture, may our actions lead us to a brighter future where people can feel safe to pursue their dreams ^__^;; sexuality should be expressed, not forced :] Good luck and I hope to see you again!
I strongly recommend anyone keeping up with this issue to watch Hoeg Law's video on the subject (as well) where hes goes over the whole document in pretty heavy detail. If accusing Blizzard of intentionally and maliciously going after women with the intent harm and harass them isn't punching below the belt, then I'm not sure what is. It's one very bad thing for that to happen to people at a company, it's a whole different thing to then accuse that company of actively, maliciously and intentionally going after said people. What is and has been happening there is awful and the people responsible for it should be held to account for their actions, but I'm not convinced it rises to the level that the state of California suggests.
edit: added the (as well) line. Apologies to Thooorin, Monty, Richard, and Krista. It was not my intent to take anything away from this video, just another video i thought was well done on the topic. Love what all you guys do, don't stop for anyone or anything!
It's great that Thorin is the only one that can't stop riffing and yukking it up about even this topic.
Who the fuck wants to listen to this heavy ass topic for 2 1/2 hours without comedic relief?
Unionising in earnest is something all employee's in these circumstances should explore. I know how fiercely these companies go about union-busting, but union membership/collective bargaining for better working conditions is essential. They're your employers, not your family. Not your friends. Don't take anything for granted and don't proceed on faith. Declining union membership has had a huge knock-on effect on employee freedoms and satisfaction.
I really wish they gave Krista more time to talk. She did an amazing job
i feel like they tried harder to include her than with some of the user guests, so that's something, I guess...
But I think they had to cut her off a couple times because she kept revolving around the same few bullet points and got a little rambly when talking for longer stretches. Not bashing Krista here - I'd do much worse in her position for sure.
Such a good talk, all 4 of them have based opinions on this subject matter
Loved the episode and appreciate the different takes & experiences. As someone that might enter the industry as a starting designer, do you have advice on how to reliably steer clear of scummy companies like that?
It's things like this that stopped me buying RP last year. Never again will I give them money.
Always look forward to these
Great episode lads
An amazing and very important episode!
I think i could go 20 lifetimes before hearing a dude make a joke about a carpet looking like a celebrities clothing, let alone make it an event within a friend group.
Straight fire 🔥
It's so hilarious seeing Thorin and Richard Lewis, two gamergaters who spent years downplaying sexism in the gaming industry, now all of a sudden pretending like they care about sexual harassment in the gaming industry. Piss off.
I get that it's close to a 3 hour video, and that it's very heavy and dark content, but it's a crime how few views this video has.
26k views + the people watching live just shows how many people actually care.
Around the 1 hour mark...
(Tbf, I live in Europe, but I don't think the country really matters) Everywhere I've worked so far there's been either an in-building cantina or one very close by where the company made some deal for cheaper meals for the employees etc., AND a room with microwave ovens and some tables. People gotta eat and don't necessarily have the desire, time or money to go out for lunch every day. It's not at all surprising that a company as big as Blizzard would have an on-campus cantina/cafeteria, lmfao.
Nor is it cult-like for employees to not leave during work hours. In fact, everywhere I've worked so far, people only went just outside the building to get some fresh air & sun or to smoke during breaks. Where the fuck does Monte expect people to go while at work? wtf
The only reason these things would impact your social life is if you either have none from the get go or work so many hours that you can't have one. Both likely in the gaming industry, but those aspects (cafeteria & not leaving during work hours) are completely normal. I've never worked anywhere where the women were with guys from the company. That's been very rare.
(and no, I've never worked in the gaming industry or software development in general)
krista was great as a guest. also this topic itself being discussed is great as blizzard has gotten away with so much of their bullshit over the past years it's ridiculous
I do not want the apocalypse, yet I can’t wait for my ascension. This is the conundrum of The 4 Horsemen.
The real question that all this really makes me think about though, is at what point can we say that we like the game, we like the product, but we don't want to support the company behind it when their culture is like this?
Is there just nothing at all any of us can do to do...anything?
Where are my esports for games without such rampant bullshit in every skeleton-filled closet?
why do you, as a consumer, have to do shit when the workers that witness it do nothing? like, literally i'd expect any company that behaves like this to suffer massive employee exodus, yet it's the first time something is done about it.
Such a great show
Great podcast
Even if the case is won by the employees, its not really solving anything. Like you said: who would be dumb enough to put it im writing. That "culture" of people in positions of power abusing their power is a part of human nature and as such, pervasive in any society. So that's the real question, where in our society is it not taught that its not ok to use position and power to treat our fellow man as a lesser being? Until we can address that and fix our society, it will just keep happening and keep getting harder to prosecute as the lessons are learned by those who would abuse others.
Appreciate this content
if their CEO didnt fart in the employees' faces, they can get in line in the waiting list of esports issues to resolve
Based guest
very interesting and shocking. Luckily from my short personal experience working in a young mobile game company I can't say I have seen any such behaviour there and I hope it didn't happen
This gonna be good
You're all welcome up to my Weinstein room. Don't worry, it's named after Brett, not the other guy.
Krista's great
Where I live we're so far removed from any of this making news and being talked/written about for more than one day. These people are narcissists whose disorder is key to filling the positions they are in. They see interactions they initiate (with women) as an exercise in power and a rite of passage in terms of company culture. Business as usual. Perks of climbing the ladder. On a tangent, historical/cultural premise of marriage as a primarly transactional relationship is ingrained in fundaments of every society.
@Lucas Schult Please tell dozens of my female coworkers over the years how society is functioning on the backs of them trying to raise children mostly on their own while having a full time job and a husband incapable/unwilling of doing any housework. I'm sure they will feel better for it. Sure, it's slowly changing for the better but certainly not for the sake of upholding the traditional values.
@Lucas Schultz alright Jordan Peterson go back to bed
@@Agaryunaer so you're saying men are "incapable/unwilling of doing any housework" because of marriage. How do you explain that men that are capable/willing to do such housework exist then?
krista fit into this talk so well ngl
What a great guest
I was blown away when she said she's 35, i could have sworn should could pass for a college student.
Great show with very important topics that needed to addressed. Big companies think they can pull off frat house behaviour because they made it, sickening that this shit gets swept under the rug until the State itself gets involved.
The year is 2021 and sexism and racism are still at full force, mind blowing.
P
This episode is such a fucking downer in the best possible way.
Like, going over all the legal aspects like Hoeg Law does is one thing and has a certain level of mental distance to it, but a few industry veterans just laying the whole game out on the table is extremely eye-opening
Stolen Valor is no longer a crime I believe.
1:15:33 If Greg did this now Riot would definitely fire him lol. Can't have a snitch in the cult.
They can do it anonymously.
I really don’t understand why these people that make so much money (tv hosts, lawyers, judges, congressman, etc.) can’t afford a 30 buck mic.
the journalists they are talking about are not investigative journalists anymore they are just another advertising avenues for company's at this point?
le obligatory wild algorithm comment
We know most are from Blizzard andctve worst are from WoW
To add to the Cosby photo. No one around me knew about the allegations about Cosby until 2014 when it blew up. I can totally believe what Monty is saying and I think Richard is just being a little too over zealous about that one specific incident.
It was not mainstream, but it was still known. I’d compare it to the tiger woods situation… people knew he was a party animal/sex addict. It just took that one event to get it mainstream.
Wait so they spend an hour and a half talking shit about people for not going public about sexual harassment and then monte tells a story he’s never gone public before?? Typical hypocrite
RL has better subliminal disses than most rappers.
banger
Richard Lewis has lost a lot of weight.
I usually enjoy your content but i feel like you guys were way too emotional and apart from Krista's insight I got very little else.
OH SHIT its time.
Later than I thought though
I don't know which middle management he is referring to as mediocre.
If it's a dev middle management, i can assure you they are far far away from being mediocre.
The programmers at Riot are very high level, probably the level of Google.
And i really don't agree with the power dynamic here.
If you are a programmer female or not, you have dozens of companies to chose from that all pay 200-300k + stock options + bonus + other benefits. You are not stuck at Riot by any means.
loved every episode so far. had to pause 2 hours 12 min though where Monty is telling people to grow the fuck up and date people from outside the indsutry? excuuuuuuuse me (Sam Davis shout out) That was some super hypocritical shit there Monty.
bruh, you completely miss the point. these people have NEVER dated in their adult life outside the industry because they CAN'T. monte is incredibly worldly if you werent aware, no criticism but hes literally spent large amounts of time in south america, korea, etc strictly to expand his worldview. he ended up finding someone in the industry by chance, not because they were in the industry if that makes sense
The problem is that most men don't talk about their sex life to their friends. I have never talked about and none of my friends have talk about
They don't talk about it honestly and emotionally anyway. If it's talked about it's in the framework of fucking competition. It's so childish.
holy fk whats going on
The cold pen typically bow because lobster comparatively part apud a trite beach. flimsy, statuesque plane
its a bit weird that the lawyer was brought on but not much legal thoughts were heard,
its kinda obvious that the view of "what they are signing up for" differs between male and female participants and thorin and monte seem to be victim to that mentality as well,
i dont think the social ineptitude is wholly on the male side but the female side appear socially inept as well raising to such situations coz the wrong message is communicated, but the responsibility definitely falls on the male since they are in authority and have the power dynamics in their favour.
You wrote so much and I honestly have no idea what you're even talking about
@@eoghan375 I think it is man bad but still women bad?
@@m8s96 nah its that women need to learn how to protect themselves and be informed of these possible situations instead of being ignorant of them and walking into them coz their parents and seniors didnt bother explaining it or kept them in the dark
How should they "protect themselves" then?
@@ph43draaa dont get into those situations in the 1st place, its like going to some 3rd world country unaccompanied and expecting not to get mugged
gross…
I know you guys lean towards cynicism and don't hide your true feelings, which I enjoy, but this Richard Lewis dude really added a vitriolic air to this episode that I really didn't like and I wasn't sure how Krista felt about it. The general atmosphere from him was one of aggression and over the top negativity and I wouldn't be surprised if she was uncomfortable with his tirades at times. His lack of self awareness when talking about how the kids today don't have the street smarts nowadays compared to when he was in his youth is a classic old duffer cliche and his tales of white knighting behaviour came across a bit too much like he was trying too hard. On top of this the 'humanity is fucked' comment re China just smacks of someone who seems incredibly bitter.
You made up a fan fiction about people you don't know. Maybe you're not the one to be making judgments about people's personalities since as you're a delusional weirdo.
@@RLewisReports How can anyone look at the youth today and not see some kinda of diminishing sense of social awareness/street smarts…
@@acceleration4443 read books from 2000 years ago,older people always complain about youth ,nothing has changed :D
For as much as you rag on other people for not speaking out, you guys apparently knew about a lot of this and didn't speak out either, just saying
They can be sued for defamation/libel if they don’t go through the proper legal channels etc. Even if it is toothless these companies can financially drain an individual person by throwing lawsuits at them
are you daft? if these 3 dudes havent been outspoken about riot, blizzard and the rampant issues in the games industry then who fucking has?
They were literally blacklisted by these companies. Stupid fucking kids just won't listen because either daddy riot and blizzard is releasing a new wow expansion and a new skin or they are too busy checking in if they are blocked by either thorin or RL.
they have talked about these issues so many times man, what are you even on about
is it too creepy to say that this is one gorgeous redhead lawyer ?
Yes.
@@ShadowsSurroundUs aww :(
A little tonedeaf mate.
@@shoePatty how so?
@@shev9127 Did you listen to the episode...
oh baby that redhead would be perfect for thorin. gonna make some fanfic for the discord boys
How can you watch a video on this topic, and come away thinking something like this? Mentalities like this is a huge part of the issue discussed. Like come on...
@@Elena-gj6ow What? It's obviously a joke calm down LOL