@@Huhbroski The Lannisters had already lost. Tyrion killing Tywin just means that Tywin isn't the captain when their ship hits and iceberg, but at that point, Tywin had already steered them into the fatal current and the iceberg is unavoidable. Tywin set the family up for failure by raising his kids to be arrogant, aristocratic snobs with no empathy and a superiority complex that let them think they could do whatever they wanted, because Lannister. This resulted in Cersei having Jaime's babies, leaving them wide open to accusation of treason. Then, when Tyrion was arrested, Tywin really screwed his family over by starting a war with the Tullys, knowing that it would bring in the Starks as well. His daughter managed to persuade the king to order Tyrion's release, but Robert also commanded "no more fighting" so when Tywin's role in Gregor's raiding comes out, he is going to be in trouble with the king. When Ned sends men under the royal banner to arrest Gregor, he is basically daring Tywin to attack them, because this will mean declaring war on the king, and bringing all of Westeros down on Tywin's head. And Tywin is stupid enough to take the bait. Again, his daughter bails him out by killing Robert but Tywin had no idea she was doing this, so from his point of view, he was directly declaring war on the Baratheons, after having already declared war on the Tullys, which means you're also at war with the Starks, and should be at war with the Arryns. Again, he has no idea that Petyr is keeping the Arryn forces out of the war, so that's another stroke of good luck on Tywin's part, otherwise, he'd have been swamped by overwhelming odds. As it is, he gets his ass kicked across the continent and back by a teenager fighting in his first war, and Edmure freaking Tully. With two whole armies destroyed by Robb Stark and another badly bloodied by a battle Roose Bolton was not even trying to win, and another battle that Edmure should not have even fought, but still beat Tywin soundly, Tywin is basically at the end of his rope. The only reason why he didn't die then and there was that his children made an alliance of desperation with the Tyrells, who had plenty of manpower and food. Because he needed the Tyrells so badly, Tywin is more or less forced to give them everything they want, even while they are plotting to murder his grandson so that Joffrey's more pliable younger brother can be king. By the end of book 5, the Lannisters are only clinging to power because the Tyrells don't have Tywin's extreme ego problem and understand the value of using the Lannisters to preserve their own image. Basically, a Lannister is still regent because it suits the Tyrells' purposes. And they can't really do anything about it, because Tywin's idiotic picking of impossible fights has left them so depleted they can't even muster enough troops to besiege a single castle. While the Lannisters provide only 1/3 of the soldiers besieging Riverrun, they need River lords who have been forced back into allegiance to the Iron Throne and the Freys to provide the other 2/3, the Tyrells & their vassals are taking Brightwater Keep from the Florents, besieging Storm's End, using a naval force to besiege Dragonstone, and occupying the eastern Riverlands, based at Maidenpool. They are NOT winning the game of thrones, they are going to do all the brutal dirty work to secure the realm for Tommen, who will grow up doing everything that his wife Margaery and his in-laws suggest, and Margaery's second son will inherit Casterly Rock, and his sigil will be a golden lion & golden rose on a green field, while the royal sigil is a stag and rose and the Lannister lion will diminish in the annals of Westeros. Except Aegon is coming back to fuck all that up. Even if there was some ridiculously contrived way for the Lannisters to pull out a win over the Tyrells and for Tywin to reclaim the reins, even if he somehow manages to overcome the Riverlands uprising when his sister & brother-in-law are massacred in Riverrun at his cousin Daven's wedding, even if he somehow comes up with a plan to reclaim the North from an ascendant Stannis, or the Vale from Littlefinger, Sansa & their tool, Harold Hardyng, Euron is going trash Oldtown with his planned sorcerous rite and Aegon is coming to reclaim the throne for the Targaryens, and the Faith will leap to embrace him over the man who sacked Kings Landing and whose brutal policies in the Riverlands have created the refugees who have started the sparrow movement. There is no good end for House Lannister and especially not Tywin. Their best hope was back at the beginning, doing what Tyrion wanted to do about his arrest - go to Robert, complain and demand a fair trial. This would prove Tyrion's innocence in the assassination attempt on Bran, embarrass the Starks and head off their inquiries into the Lannisters' conspiracy. Unfortunately for the Lannisters, even if Petyr is killed resisting arrest for his lie about the ownership of the dagger used by the assassin, there are too many people who know the truth about the twincest, and it will come out, even if Ned Stark slinks home in disgrace after falsely indicting the queen's brother. Tywin lost the game of thrones when he let his elder children reach maturity without a proper moral upbringing and decent education in reality.
@@Huhbroski This is just epically wrong. You keep citing 90,000 men from somewhere, but the point is, they are mostly Tyrell men, and they are not going to do Tywin's dirty work without a lot more in the way of rewards. You offer no proof of anything nor any reasoning behind your assertions. You somehow think that citing Edmure's efficient and prudent tactics and preparations for battle somehow disprove his victory, you completely misunderstand military operations and victory conditions, you seem to think battle is like a ball game, where win only counts when you play under strictly even conditions, except for numbers, of course. Tywin being born into the family with a larger population base and income, allowing him to field a larger army than most, somehow makes him superior, but Robb attacking the Lannisters' vulnerabilities and out-maneuvering Tywin to achieve his military objectives with the least loss of life on his side (which any professional soldier would say is absolutely the measure of a superior commander) proves he can't beat Tywin one on one. You assert that Tywin would not make Cersei's mistakes, but Cersei is raised by Tywin, with Tywin's attitudes and her guiding light is "What would Tywin do?" Even if her methods are bad, she is dealing with problems created by Tywin, and Tywin himself argues against the best solutions. He does not understand finance, so he is as blind to the problem of the crown's debts as Cersei is, which means the Iron Bank is going to be financing his foes, just like they do with her. Tywin refuses to use Lannister money to pay off those debts, he refuses to forgive the debt the crown owes House Lannister and he even refuses to pay for the royal wedding. He is NOT going to have a constructive solution the money the crown owes the banks or the Faith, instead, they are going to see him draining the treasury to pay off his own debts and move against him. You can't see how Aegon is going to beat Tywin, but you are completely forgetting who is the sine qua non of removing all the smart people from the Lannister regime, and who also is sponsoring Aegon? Remember Varys? Varys who guided Tywin's murderer to the bedroom where he was alone and vulnerable? Varys who murdered Pycelle and Kevan? Who hid for months in the secret passages of the Red Keep while the best efforts of Jaime & co failed to find him? Tywin is going to live as long as Varys wants him to and not a moment longer. Tywin is not going to be able to stop the uprisings in the Riverlands, he is not going to be able to quell the North or the Vale. The Vale might not have the numbers, but the Lannisters are not going to be able to force the passes of the Mountains of the Moon, and Mace Tyrell won't make the effort without more rewards. He was willing to write off the whole North to the Greyjoys. He is not going to be able to reconquer the North, because his plan was for the Boltons to do all the dirty work before Tyrion comes in with Sansa and their child to claim it from them. And no, he will not be able to find a red-haired girl to substitute. PETYR had Jeyne Poole, Tywin can't be bothered with little details like that, and Jeyne only worked because she grew up in Winterfell and had much the same knowledge of the castle and the North and the Stark family that outsiders would be able to check in a daughter of Ned. There are no red-haired girls who know what Sansa or Arya or Jeyne does and any fake Tywin offered would not be accepted without proof. Your solution to all these problems is "90,000" men, but they are mostly Tyrell men. The Lannisters can only scare up 1/3 of the troops needed to besiege a single castle, and they need troops from the Freys or their former enemies to hold what few castles they do take, such as at Darry, Harrenhal and Seaguard. Randyll Tarly and his Reacher men hold Maidenpool, and Brienne's Lannister warrant barely gets her any credit with him, and meanwhile, he is marrying the daughter of the Mootons to his son to gain an inheritance claim. That is the price for using an ally's men to achieve your goals, you have to share the prize. Tywin is not keeping the Tyrells subject to him by force of will, he is buying their cooperation with most of the rewards of the victory at the Blackwater, important offices in the regime, a lordship for his son, lands, castles, heirs and tax breaks for his friends, and he has to run anything important past Mace. His children note that he is spending all his time with Mace trying to appease him. He never once tells them "no" and they murder his grandson to replace him with a more pliable and younger child, and make Tywin reward them by giving Tyrion's office & council seat to Mace's uncle. And no, Joffrey dying is not remotely a win for Tywin, nor does Tywin hate Joffrey. He is upset because one of his offspring is balking him so badly, when in his mind, they are all his puppets and extensions of his will. He would NEVER kill Joffrey or admit there was anything wrong with him, because he is the embodiment of Tywin's lifelong dream. Mace does not consider the Lannisters family, he talks up the union because it is convenient and he is leveraging their marital relationship to get more concessions and rewards out of them. He shows no consideration to his Lannister family, unless they can demonstrate that what they are asking of him benefits the Tyrells as well.
@@Huhbroski And regarding the non-Tywin bits your incoherent screed, Catelyn was not taking Tyrion to be tried at her sister's house, she actually objected to the whole procedure. The point was taking Tyrion as a hostage and information source. The smart play for the Lannisters was to have Robert take over the whole thing and hear the case against Tyrion himself, because they would win. Tywin chose to react in a way that saw Jaime placed in prison, Tyrion endangered in a battle and Cersei and her children exposed at court with few troops to protect them, because Tywin had already become entangled in a war with the Starks and Tullys. If Tywin is not already in the middle of a war he can use those troops to secure the throne, but he reacted badly to the Stark threat. As for the twincest thing being none of Tywin's doing, again, that is a failure on his part. And it is absolutely Ned's business, and the business of every subject of the Iron Throne, and he is NOT a hypocrite, because he is not trying to obtain an inheritance for Jon that Jon has no right to. Furthermore, the Baratheons WERE the rightful rulers. The whole point of kingship in a feudal aristocracy is a compact between the king and the lords, where both sides have to uphold their end, and the king has to respect their rights. Aerys broke that compact and Rhaegar did his own damage and then sided with Aerys. For this reason, the lords of the realm rejected them as rulers and acclaimed Robert. They acclaimed Robert because he had the closest blood claim to the throne, over Jon, who led the Rebellion and Ned, who was the Lord most wronged by the Targaryens. Aerys & Rhaegar forfeited the right to pass on their positions by inheritance because when you violate the feudal compact, you lose your rights. A lord who betrays his king is attained, and his children cannot inherit his lands or castle, and likewise, a king who betrays his vassals loses the right to pass on his throne to his own heirs. After the attainted line of Aerys, Robert was next in line by inheritance. Not even the Targaryens would contest that, though they would argue Aerys & Rhaegar's disinheritance was illegitimate. But EVERYONE agreed the succession went Aerys, Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Robert. Aegon & Viserys were removed from the line because of their fathers' crimes. If you can claim the throne because your father took it, you can lose the throne for his failures as well.
Stop apologising for the length of the video lol. I think we all want longer and more detailed ones. This was great and I’d like to see more of the same
It's ironic. Tywin spent so long hoping for his house to last through the ages, yet was completely incapable of recognising that his terrible parenting was the very thing that would keep that from happening ^^;
@Huhbroski A bit of both really. Tywin was a terrible parent. And his kids were terrible people who got in their own way to much. Cersei easily was the worst one with how destructive and short-sighted she is.
In other words, Tywin forgot the second half of that famous Machiavelli quote: "Don't be hated." Dorne, the Riverlands and the North all hate his guts, not to mention Daenerys.
Basically. It was all salvageable until he did the Red wedding. But on some level, he thinks the starks are wiped out. Arya is the only unknown, and they presume bran/rickon are dead and they have Sansa (until Littlefinger does his thing). It's also short sighted of tywin to believe that the Boltons would rule the north for long, and knowing they are literal back stabbers is a huge red flag lol. In his desperate attempt to end the war and protect the family, the relations with half the country are irreparable, which isn't peace. It's only peace as long as you're alive and as long as you have control/power. Even if tywin didn't die and lived for another 5 years, Lannisters grip on the throne would slowly fade, as I can definitely see Dorne/iron born/the vale backing Daenerys
It's impossible not to be hated by your enemies, I can name multiple people that hate the Starks. That quote only applies to vassels, I'm sure. Machiavelli also states that if you do something bad to someone, you must cripple them somehow so they do not come back for vengeance, and that's exactly what Tywin did to all his enemies
@M.L.official Tywin didn't plan for the Boltons to rule the North his plan was for Tyrion to rule the North. That's why he married him to Sansa. The Boltons were just scapegoats for the red wedding. He even predicts Stark loyalists will fight the Boltons, and when Tyrion son by Sansa arrives, "the last living Stark," he will declare him lord of Winterfell.
@ChildOfTheFlower No, it was littlefinger, but he told Tyrion the scheme impressed him, implying he'd probably make a fake Sansa after the Barlish Sansa plot. And even if Sansa is the older Stark daughter and is higher in the line of succession.
Lord of the Stormlands: Tommen Baratheon Tommen's Regent: Ser Barristan Selmy Had Selmy not been dismissed from the Kingsguard (a minor contrivance to offset Cersei,'s stupidity), he would have been the prime choice to rule the Stormlands in Tommen's name. He lacks personal ambition and would see serving as regent for Prince Tommen as his duty as a Kingsguard Knight. As a Stormlander, he would not be seen by the Baratheon bannermen as an outsider. As a legendary knight, no vassal in the Stormlands would consider rebelling or continue supporting Stannis.
@@tsaralexis9459 He wouldn't own land. Tommen would own the land, and Selmy would rule in his stead, Cersei also held no lands as queen-regent to Joffrey for example. Sending a member of the royal family, i.e. Tommen to the Stormlands also requires a kingsguard member to protect him, since they have a duty to protect all of the royal family. This idea could work out, but Selmy is the lord commander, which makes things a bit more complicated since you would essentially leave the KG leaderless in King's Landing itself
@@vincentlepera4054 I still doubt selmy would accept this, he would still probably consider it a violation of his vows, although I guess it is possible
@@tsaralexis9459 Yeah Selmy is kind of a perfect candidate, but Tommen does need to rule the Stormlands, someone just needs to be his regent tbh. The Lannisters just need the strength of the Stormlands for the future, so giving it someone like Tarly will come back to bite you in the ass sooner or later.
I implore you, kind sirs, cease not with these videos. These scratch a SPECIAL ITCH on what's there to love about the worldbuilding and characters of ASOIAF.
@@timothylong3110 Impossible. I am the proud husband to a refined highborn lady, and frequent only the finest of Baelish's establishments in the Street of Silk.
@19:53 "We've had vicious kings, and we're had idiot kings, but I don't' know that we'v'e ever been cursed with a vicious idiot king!" Although the show-only quote is excellent, Tyrion's book assessment of Joffrey is even more spot-on: "no he's not Robert II, he's Aerys III". There HAS been a vicious idiot king before Joffrey, and that king's rule ended with half the continent rising in rebellion and 300 years of Targaryen rule coming crashing down
The show does not seem to be aware that was the issue in the Rebellion, they think it's all about Lyanna. They say this more than once, at one point saying that the Rebellion was based on a lie, in response to the discovery of the Rhaegar & Lyanna's romance, and another time, that everything that happened was the result of Robert loving a woman who did not love him back. As far as the show is concerned, any king who appoints Tywin Hand can't be that much of an idiot.
@@georgeprchal3924 More like the creepy, handsy, physically violent stepdad, who blew through the family savings and spent them on his personal vanity projects, but okay, sure.
@Huhbroski Tywin deserved it. He treated Tyrion like crap all his life and tried to have him executed and then sent to the wall for a crime he didn't commit, and Tywin knew it. And then he slept with Shae as one final act of pettiness. Tywin's downfall is no one's fault but his own.
@leeashley1902 Man Tywin has been trying to mold Tyrion into a pragmatic political player like him all his life. Tyrion got himself into that trial by antagonizing Cersei and Joffrey unprovoked when he was hand. Treating and belittling Cersei when he first arrived, poisoning her for no reason, sending her guards away, leaving her vulnerable, physically assaulting Joffrey multiple times and threatening to grape Tommon and ruin Cerseis life. Tyrion got himself in that position, and still Tywin made sure he wouldn't be executed and would probably relieve him off his vows because he needed him to be lord of Winterfell to control the north.
@Huhbroski Okay, One: Tywin has belittled Tyrion his whole life regardless of what he did for him. Two: Cersei and Joffrey wouldn't have been insulted by Tyrion if they didn't keep fucking things up. Cersei dismissed Ser Barristan, let Joffrey get out of control, let Joffrey abuse Sansa, they're ONLY hostage and kept trying to sabatoge Tyrion when he was trying to clean up her fuck ups. Joffrey, do I even need to go into details when it comes to him? Three: Tyrion poisoned Cersei because she kept getting in his way to save her Dumbass of a son and herself. Four: As for Tommen. We both know Tyrion wouldn't have done that. Cersei was the one threatening Tyrion all the time. It was fair, and as for sending her guards away, you seriously believe CERSEI should be trusted with guards? She would cause all kinds of trouble with them. Tywin not executing Tyrion is only common sense because Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey. There shouldn't even have been a trial in the first place, but Tywin let it happen because of his irrational hatred of Tyrion. Tywin deserved his fate, and I won't apologize for believing so.
@14:54 Plus don't forget: in the books, the nominal overlord of the Riverlands is Emmon Frey, who is married to Genna Lannister, Tywin's sister. And there is NO ONE who thinks Emmon is the one wearing the pants in that relationship. The Freys may be in charge in name, but for the immediate future, Genna is calling the shots, and she is also the one grooming Emmon's heir, Tywin Frey, to one day rule, meaning that even after rule passes to Tywin, he will likely be more of a Lannister than a Frey, regardless of what his last name is. Having House Frey of Riverrun be the Lords Paramount of the Riverlands basically turns the Riverlands into an extension of the Westerlands
Actually, no. When Emmon says something about being a good overlord and be strict but fair with his father, Jaime corrects him that he is only lord of Riverrun and Petyr Baelish is the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, as Lord of Harrenhal. He was given those titles at the end of Book 2, as a reward for his efforts in negotiating the marriage alliance with the Tyrells.
He was an amazing leader based on fear but that’s the only reason he had the loyalty. But rob showed his weak spots and people realised he wasn’t invincible but his greatest skill from using others to do his dirty work promising them the world.
@ that he’s beatable Tywins power lies in fear and the tales of houses he has destroyed. Rob showed he can be beaten and that scared him that’s why he got the Bolton and the frays to turn.
@Tardycripple Robb didn't beat him though matterfact him avoiding Tywin and going for less competent lannisters like Jaime and Steffod is what lead to his many victories. Robb avoided him in the greenfork and in Harrenhall, when he tried to face him in the West Stannis attacked Kingslanding. The lannisters and Tyrell army was like 90 000 he could of defeated the Starks martially but he wanted Tyrion to inherit Winterfell.
@ he was the leader of the Lanaster forces rob showed they could be beaten even if it wasn’t in the open field all time and he needed the Tyrrells to beat stan the man he wasn’t as good as he wanted everyone to believe.
The one real problem I see that will probably kill house lannister in the long run is how utterly dispised they are by pretty much everyone else. With the red wedding the chance of house lannister ever ruling peacfully has been destroyed and the chance that they get red weddinged themselves is enormous.
I don’t think you should have Tywin (be rumoured to) kill Joffrey because of the taboo of kinslaying which is a line even Tywin admitted he wouldn’t cross.
Except for Tyrion. Everything (initially) worked out perfectly for Tywin in the books/show. Tyrion gets accused, Tywin can get rid of Tyrion. Jaime offers to leave the Kingsguard to save Tyrion, Tywin immediately accepts. Had Shae not provoked Tyrion to go off-script and demand a Trial by Combat, Tywin would have gotten Tyrion sent to the Wall and Jaime restored as his heir.
@LordBloodraven- Even if people thought Tywin set Tyrion up to be falsely prosecuted, he could just say there was a trial by combat and the gods decided. Which makes it difficult to call him a kinslayer.
How you deal with the Tyrion/Oberyn/Varys triple threat: 1) Tywin may want Tyrion dead, but neither of them are stupid. He has to know that Tyrion wouldn’t kill Joffrey with something everyone saw him and to him. If Tyrion wanted to kill Joffrey, he had plenty of time and a battle to do it, but he didn’t. Just find Tyrion not guilty or insist that, as I believe is the law, the crown’s champion must be on the kings guard. You’ve made the deal with Jaime already, so the obvious choice is Boros Blount. Bronn will fight for Tyrion in this scenario, as the price to kill Blount will be lower than that to kill Gregor, which he was still willing to do. Unlike Tyrion, Tywin has the ability to arrange a castle for Bronn. Either way, Tyrion lives, and Jaime takes his place as your heir. Threat 1 is avoided. 2) Oberyn’s plot to poison Tywin gets foiled by doing something that should have been obvious to Tywin: using a food taster. The king’s just been murdered. You still have Stannis and Balon at war with you. Your hold on the North is tenuous. And then there’s Dorne: a historical pain in the neck, whose ruling house hates you personally, and who can claim the throne and start another succession war because of equal primogeniture laws if Myrcella’s marriage happens. The poison expert who wants you dead most is constantly with you. Just having a good taster, which should be an obvious reaction to the scenario. likely staves off his plan. 3) Keeping guards around you is likely the best way to avoid Varys’ attempt, but it likely will succeed. Varys doesn’t make a move until he’s certain he won’t die for it, so he’ll have to get you alone like he did with Kevan. Keeping guards with you presents a risk he won’t take.
Killing Dany is easy considering Tywin got the money, and if by some chance he knows about the Faceless Men in Braavos. Send a envoy with Carts full of gold, and pay them to take her out. I'm sure a handful of Faceless men sent towards her would be enough.
balon swann could be a great regent for the stormlands hes incredibly loyal and notably his father didn't send any troops to fight since his other son was for stannis while balon was for joffrey so he does have a small army in the stormlands to call on possibly and he is one of their own.
young griff never goes to westeros without dany if tyrion stays with the lannisters he convinced the boy king to go and accomplish something to win her hand and he convinces the golden company to join him plus jon con never gets greyscale from saving him so they may join forces with dany and break her out of trouble if they can
Would Dany accept Young Griff though? "Sup. I'm your brother's son. Don't ask why the Golden Company is supporting me. hehehe. So I know you have the first Dragons since Aegon V's time, but like. I should be king. Mary me maybe?"
@@TommoBoyyo I think she would be much more willing to accept him if he brought ten thousand golden company men and broke the slaver siege currently engulfing her and a bonus if she gets another dragon rider that she’s looking for and she may be willing to marry him if hizdar happens to contract a fatal case of sword through bowels
@@thepunisher6674 You don't think she'd immediately arch her eyebrows and ask the same question everyone does - Why is the Golden Company fighting for the Red Dragon? Isn't one of her formative memories her brother inviting them to a feast where he proposed they join forces and they all just rolled over laughing at him? Wouldn't she question the sudden loyalty? Or do you think there would just be an unspoken awareness that the Red and Black Dragons were teaming up and all future Targaryens would be both Black and Red and nobody asks too many questions about why Young Griff suddenly has Blackfyre? Now. Here's the other question though - Which one of them 'sits the throne'? Do you think Young Griff, and more importantly his supporters, is willing to play the Consort's part? Is Daenerys? The one who brings the fire breathing dragons? Early in her story she may well have if Young Griff had offered her 'A house in Kings Landing with a red door and a lemon tree outside the window'; but by that point in the story, she may be too far gone to simply be content.
@ She would probably think that illyrio gave a bunch of money too them so they would fight he was a beggar when he met with the golden company and she still thinks of illyrio as a staunch ally And dany grew up a beggar as well so she would probably have no idea about the complex history of the blackfyres and the Targaryens since she never got those lesson and her only education is viserys stories, and if she did hear anything about the blackfyres it would be barristan selmy slaying the last one alive official the blackfyres are dead And they would marry and both be important in the same way jeahaerys the first and queen Alisane were and dany might just support young griff off the jump if she new about him she was trying to support viserys until he died even after years off abuse I’m sure she would be willing to support someone who isn’t completely insane
If Tyrion didn't kill Tywin, Oberyn would have, after a few days. One of my favorite theories is that before his final duel with the Mountain, he poisoned Tywin's drink with Widows Blood (which was stolen from Pycelle's stock, as said at Tyrion's trial). That poison is basically supposed to be death by constipation, which explains why Tywin was out of the room for long enough for Tyrion to murder Shae, and his bowels didn't finally "let go" until after Tyrion shot him. It also explains why his professionally embalmed body was still rotting (and at an extreme rate, described as "as if it is full of toxins") at his funeral.
His body almost certainly underwent sepsis as his bowels were perforated. It's one of my big reasons for not buying into the poisoned theory. A body left for hours and hours after being shot through the shit tubess smelled bad, and an old man was constipated.
These are the best kind of franchise celebrations out there. Highly detailed speculations and discussions about different aspects of our favorite fictional worlds and their what if scenarios. Please go on with these. I'd like to suggest a what if video / videos about the different religions uprising in Westeros. We saw The Seven uprising in the show, but what about The Old Gods, Drowned God, or The Lord of Light. What would their faith militant look like, and how would they try to overthrow the government.
@16:38 "The Mannis is the correct answer in all things" Who is the most beautiful woman in Westeros? The Mannis Who will be the next Sword of the Morning? The Mannis Who put the bop in the bop-a-bop-a-bop, who put the ram in the ramma-lamma-ding-dong? Thats's right: The Mannis
My pic for the storm land region would be the Crakhall Lord, he’s from the west like Taiwan so he has loyalty, but most importantly they are a house based on warfare. None of their commanders are any bright spots when it comes to a top 10 commanders list, but they’re strong nature would provide a firm hand that is needed, but the fact that there are smaller house in the west would ensure that no one on any side would get any ideas of them actually taking over completely.
The Dany question gets completely bypassed if Joffrey doesn’t dismiss Barristan because he doesn’t get to stop the assassin. Additionally, at least in the books, Jaime is Warden of the East. That goes a long way if not countered by Baelish/Lysa.
21:24 Maybe they could blow up Joffrey and Cersei with wildfire and then frame the Ironborn for it, that way you can deny responcibility and use it as a reason to level the Iron island if they want to.
It's possible A Stannis/Robb Alliance would work ONLY if Ned goes to the wall. If he goes against his sentence, Stannis may have an "oathbreaker" issue, either by his own morals or in the eyes of the lords.
But you don’t make your oath until after you get to the wall all that would happen if he didn’t got to the wall would be that Ned would be considered an outlaw/ traitor in the south And considering that the king who deems this is illegitimate I personally don’t think Stan is would hold that against him
@shaymurphy4951 Fair. I was indeed referring to Ned running away from the sentence rather than the sentence itself. And while it's true that Stannis may show *some* leniency because of legitimacy and all that, remember that Davos also helped him but had to pay a price, so I'm wondering if that comes in to play.
@@jthecaffeinatedcrow6456 but you gotta consider wether or not Stannis believes Ned did anything wrong cause all he did was try and give Stannis (the true heir to the throne) the iron throne Joffrey takes it as being a traitor Stannis probably sees it as the right thing to do
@@shaymurphy4951 I don't doubt that after the war, Stannis will pardon Ned, but it's during the war that may present an issue. There are some that may want to say no to Stannis if he allies with a "traitor", maybe thinking "Oh, how convenient that Stannis is supporting the guy who says HE is the rightful king". But if that traitor goes to the wall, and Stannis allies himself with his son (admittedly, the son of a traitor), there may be more willingness to join, or at least less apprehension. Afterwards, Stannis can say "I'm removing Ned Stark's sentence since it was bs".
You should do a hotd edition of how houses could have won, how the blacks could have won or how the greens could have won or even how house velaryon could have won.
Well worth the wait for this epic remake! It's always made me laugh how even in the book, the Stomrlands are just sat to one side, twiddling their thumbs wondering how Stannis is getting on! Great work as always and big props to Thom for editing this Wun Wun of a video!
A Beast of a Video! The amount of puns and jokes was just about perfect. Can't find a loophole in your guys' logic for now, seems all accurate. And as we always should: "Vote for the Stannis Baratheon Political party!"
What about Barristan Selmy? If Tywin prevents his dismissal, he'd be a good figurehead to send with or instead of Randyll Tarly and denies Dany a solid ally.
Please do a top 5 duelist vid for the star wars original trilogy (even though wr all know Vader is number 1 as hes basically zombie Greggor with an extra large lighsaber and actually has armour while also being as innately skilled as Jamie Lanister and as experienced as Bariston the Bold. I like the star wars videos as much as the thrones ones Great video as usual.
Other than perhaps Stannis the Mannis, Tywin may have been the best leader for the peace and prosperity of Westeros. He was extraordinarily capable, practical, and willing to do what is necessary to run a empire (seven kingdoms makes it an empire). He was not immoral or cruel in of itself, he was willing to be exactly how “evil” he needed to succeed but would not go further and didn’t act that way out of malice, but necessity. Seeing the threats that faces Westeros and the world at large, you would need someone like him to lead that is willing to make the hard decisions. He was also seen as honorable to the point that he would keep his word and follow through all deals, which is necessary for the stability of a realm. He put his family and house first, but who doesn’t? Both highborn and peasant, it is a rare man indeed that puts duty before all. Both in self interest and his belief in how the world should be run and men should act, Tywin would have lead the realms to peace, stability, and prosperity (once his enemies are disposed of that is). There were few men as capable as Tywin in any regard, never mind all the aspects Tywin is great in. If he hadn’t had bastards like Joffrey ruin everything for Westeros, Tywin would likely have united the Seven Kingdoms once again, defeated Daenerys, and been prepared for the White Walker threat and been able to save the living from the dead. Good times would follow for all in the Seven Kingdoms, so long as you don’t make yourself Tywin’s enemy, people would do very well.
26:31, I actually have a rhetort here. If you reread Tyrions POV chapter where he kills Tywin, Tywin instantly thinks this is all Varys' doing. This indicates to me that Tywin is at least partially aware that Varys is not to be trusted and may be plotting against him; and is secretly waiting for the right time to strike. So, what if we just have Tywin find a way to rid Varys sooner? say he frames Tyrion and Varys for co-conspiring Jeoffrey's death and have them executed after a Kangaroo court? I know, easier said than done but its clear as good of player Varys is, it's clear Tywin has some sense of it and feels in the realm of possibility that Tywin can take him out before he's an issue.
Sadly, Varys was a skilled mummer, playing the loyal servant long enough to see his plots (in the books) come to fruition. Tywin likely intended to eventually eliminate Varys if his services were no longer required or he continuously failed to inform the Small Council of developing plots.
@@LordBloodraven I mean sure, but from the few times we hear Tywin talk of Varys, it's clear he had some suspicions about Varys...is it really that far out to think that Tywin would just find some trumped up charge and have varys killed before he could do anything? Granted that begs the question why didn't he do it in the first place, but this video is about how they COULD have won and its not like they wouldn't have opportunity to make charges against varys and have him killed if the Lannisters really wanted.
Tywin told Tyrion at the meeting when he made him hand to find out who came up with the idea to make Janos Slynt lord (Littlefinger), resign Ser Barristan (Varys) he suspected it was either Varys, Littlefinger or Pycelle and told Tyrion execute who was behind these blunders, "heads, spikes, walls" and Tyrion does find out from Cersei Varys told Joffrey to fire Barristan and Janos Slynt is Littlefingers man but Tyrion is nowhere near as pragmatic as he thinks he is and doesn't follow his father's order instead choosing to make Cersei an enemy and treat Varys as a friend because of Shay a whore who Tywin told Tyrion not to bring to kingslanding. If Tyrion followed Tywins orders Varys and Littlefingers heads would be on spikes.
Okay, so WITHOUT contrivances, I THINK we can keep the Lannisters from falling apart. At least in totality. I can see two potential paths. First: IF Tywin is the one who has Joffrey killed and IF he is able to make it where Tyrion isn't implicated and then IF he's able to get rid of Oberyn, then I don't think Varys moves quick enough to ruin them. Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree that Varys would take out Tywin, but I don't think it's before Tywin has educated Tommin and trained him enough to have some backbone. By the time Tywin is taken out, Tommin should be less inclined to rolling over to Margery OR the Faith. That's assuming the Faith still become a thing. They only get power because of Cersei who emboldened them as a means to mitigate the Tyrells. IF Tywin was alive long enough to train Tommen for a while, that may not become necessary. This extra time ALSO gives more time for Jaime to continue his growth as a leader and gets him more entrenched in the pollitics. Something he was working on in the main timeline. Give him an extra few months or even a year without Cersei fucking up the whole thing and I believe that he can help mitigate Cersei. All in all, it's not a perfect position, BUT it IS one I think the Lannisters can use to work from. Two: IF Tywin IS NOT the one that has Joffrey killed and it goes the way it did in the books, there MIGHT be a way to save Tyrion without MUCH contrivance. When Oberyn has his skull smashed in, Tywin, due to his deal with Jaime AND that small piece of Joanna that is inside him, Publicly declares that the Gods have made their will known and it is clear with both warriors down, Tyrion is guilty BUT your fate is to be sent to the Wall to repent and live your life in service to the Realm. This get's rid of Joffrey, Tyrion, and Oberyn while also keeping Jaime content. This brings Jaime closer than any other scenario and Jaime exponetially begins getting involved in politics. From here it's similar to what I said above and even if Varys kills Tywin, I don't think it's before Tommen and Jaime level up their skills enough to mitigate the Tyrells and the Faith.
Justifying sending Tyrion to the wall by saying "both warriors are down, therefore he's guilty but his life must be spared, so say the gods" is actually a brilliant hidden 3rd option. I like that a lot . Every Lannister wins. Cersei gets to be free of him, Tyrion gets to live and kinda likes the Wall a little bit, Jamie is happy his brother is alive and Tyrion gets Jamie to hang up his white cloak and sire Lannister children.
Varys can't kill Tywin though atleast not easily, hiring an assassin is out the way I doubt anyone would allow a contract to kill the richest men it's too risky and Tywin has all types of weapons in the room and guards likely posted up outside the only way to kill him is by finding him on the privy and I doubt Varys has a timetable for that.
@@142doddyYou guys forget he wanted Tyrion to take winterfell and he made it clear he didn't value the nights watch vows I'm pretty sure he'd just relieve Tyrion from his vows when it's time to take the North.
Brilliant video as always. Tom, I know you must be tired but please call off the faceless man. I need these videos like the mannis needs his birthright. Paid for by the Stannis Baratheon party
Stannis would never pay for people to speak the truth. He would simply demand it of them. If they refuse to comply, he'd burn them to the Lord of Light, for the Night is Dark and full of Terrors.
The moment Ned makes his move, it's already too late for the Lannisters. They have already committed to their biggest blunders. By that point, they have gotten extremely lucky, in that Robert died before he could find out and react to A. Tywin sending Gregor to raid the Riverlands in defiance of Robert's ruling that the Starks release Tyrion and the fighting is to end. B. Tywin attacking Beric & Thoros under the royal banner, thus declaring war on the Iron Throne, and demanding a military response and harsh treatment of the offenders. C. Twincest. Robert learning about ANY of those things means instant destruction for House Lannister. His death is an extraordinary stroke of good luck beyond what the Lannisters deserve. From there, we get Tywin getting his ass kicked around the realm by a teenager fighting his first battle and there is not much else he can do, because he has committed to a hopeless strategic situation. Stannis is going for the throne, no matter how things turn out with Ned at court, and so is Renly, with a larger army than Tywin has. Basically any different military move Tywin makes, thanks to advice from an omniscient reader, leaves him vulnerable to a different set of enemies. If, rather than march north up the Kingsroad to meet what he thinks is Robb Stark, but is actually Roose Bolton, he move west, he still can't get back in time to save Jaime, just stare down a combined Stark-Tully army that has liberated Riverrun and now sits athwart his supply lines, with Bolton moving down into his rear, and Kings Landing hideously vulnerable to a Baratheon attack. If he tries to fight Robb, he will be going up against a military prodigy advised by a veteran warrior & leader defending his home turf, and Tywin probably goes down. If Cersei keeps a tighter reign on Joffrey and Varys doesn't let Littlefinger try some other means of killing Ned, it is possible that the Lannisters are able to trade Ned & Sansa for Jaime or another captive, but the fact that they lost Arya in OTL and there does not seem to be a way of changing that without cheating, means that negotiations will probably bog down long enough for a Baratheon to come into Kings Landing and do away with the Lannister claimants to the throne. Tywin could, upon getting the news of Ned's fall, return to court to take over administering the realm, but that leaves Jaime alone in the field and soon to be Robb's captive. Tywin doesn't screw up the prisoner exchange, and he does not have Cersei's motivation to urge Ned into a false confession ASAP, so that will result in Ned being free to then throw his support behind Stannis. Even if he is forced to swear not to make war on the crown, the Lannisters can't stop him from backing up Stannis' claim, which will mean a lot more support. At the least, the riverlands, northmen and much of the Vale will back Stannis, and probably a lot of stormlords will bail on Renly. The Lannisters are so toxic they can't run the realm through the crisis of the Others' invasion. The two latest books in the series could serve as a comparison of the respective legacies of Tywin & Ned. The book that explores Tywin's legacy is called "a feast for crows" because that's what Tywin left behind him. Jaime & Brienne roam around the former warzone and witness the devastation Tywin has caused, the complete breakdown of society. The prizes the Lannisters claim, the castles of Harrenhal & Darry are ruined shells, Lancel gives up his lordship to join the Faith, the result of the emotional, sexual and physical abuses inflicted on him by his Lannister cousin, and Riverrun has a Brotherhood spy already in place when the Lannisters take over. Jaime cannot effect the peaceful turnover of the castle, despite his sincerely intended & generous offered terms because of his and his father's well-earned reputations for treachery, oath-breaking and peace-violations. The extenuating circumstances of Jaime's oath-breaking are not known, because Tywin raised him with the attitude that he should not have to explain himself to lesser beings. The alliances Tywin made are to the Tyrells, who are betraying him & stealing his government out from under him, to the weak, venal and unreliable Freys, whose atrocities have turned every hand against them, and their Lannister patrons, as well as with the Boltons who scoffed in Jaime's face at the notion of Tywin's wrath. The Boltons are no better able to hold the North than Tywin's brother-in-law Emmon Frey can hold Riverrun, and neither Boltons nor Freys can keep the peace in their respective regions.
Love the videos! Your view of Stannis is making you too optimistic of his chances. Even if he does win against the white walkers, his forces will be seriously diminished. Tywin doesn’t need to invade. He just needs to stop food from coming in to the North and send raiders to further devastate their food supply. Stannis invading against a vastly superior foe is highly unlikely to succeed.
It is worth mentioning that without Tyrion being exiled, he never convinces Griff/Jon Con to turn west, meaning that Faegon and Dany will join up and invade Westeros together. Adding the golden Company to Dany's forces would make Tywin's war of attrition even harder
15:12 my brother, what are you talking about? the Stormlands were an active battleground up until the very last chapters of the last book. Storm's End was under Stannis' control through his supporters. Yes, Tomen/Joffrey have a claim to the Stormlands as a whole, but George didnt just "kinda forget" about the whole place, it was heavily disputed by 2, now 3, major forces.
Glad you all included the no co-opt wins because literally everything would have been fine if Cersei’s children were actually fathered by Robert. 10:02 And apparently Joffrey Baratheon is a tactical genius
Well technically house lannister had won the war of the five kings in fact the only problem once taiwan had died the only person who is ruling king's landing is cersei and since jamie was not there in king's landing no one actually can challenge cersei but luckily uncle kevin is the only person who can deficiency cersei but Kevin had died so cersei is basically so ruler of the seven kingdoms and the cersei that made damn decisions for example making an enemy of house tyrant
28:18 I know what the background is obviously rains of Castamere but what version of it is this considering it doesn’t sound like the original is there a version on TH-cam
@Daniel22208 thanks Dan! We're looking into uploading them as stand alone pieces but we like to do this by the book and need to get the correct licensing before we do so.
⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️Dude , they could had just keep Ned in to a prison and not tell his family about it , how could you not bring that up , at keast for a few months
...yhea because that would have hold up against scrutiny and would definitly remain secret. Esspecialy if we consider they would then have to keep the death of Robert couver up to.
What if Tytos Lannister, Tywin's father, had been an effective lord of the Westerlands? A lot of the reason Tywin is such an SOB is because Tytos was a weak leader whose bannermen ran roughshod over him, and Tywin was determined to redeem the Lannister honor by ensuring that no one ever laughed at *him* or his family ever again. Unfortunately, this led to him being a ruthless parent who left all his kids deeply damaged in various ways. If Tywin hadn't had such a huge chip on his shoulder, he probably would have been able to be a better father.
I think Cersei is a much greater liability to Lannister success than Joffrey, as she is just competent enough to be dangerous to anyone she sees as a threat, which includes way too many Lannister confederates. Joffrey on the other hand was a vicious idiot lacking the political acumen to secure the loyalty of anyone not expressly required to obey him, such as the king's guard, and would therefore have been much easier to neutralize without killing than Cersei. Neutralizing Cersei early on would have done wonders for Lannister cohesion. Tywin should have ordered Cersei back to Casterly rock as soon as he made Tyrion acting hand. Without Cersei running interference, Tyrion could've kept Joffrey in line, and possibly even sorted out Varys and Littlefinger, both of whom played more active roles in Tyrion's downfall than Cersei. Littlefinger by hiring the jousting midgets to instigate the altercation between Tyrion and Joffrey that implicated him in Joffrey's murder. Not to mention actually orchestrating Joffrey's murder. And Varys by handing Shae over as a witness against Tyrion. Tyrion might have seen them both coming if he hadn't been preoccupied fending off Cersei's more obvious opposition. Now given the amount of people with good reasons to eliminate them Tywin and Joffrey would probably end up dead in any case. But with Cersei away from Kingslanding, Tyrion would likely end up the de facto leader of team Lannister. As Tywin's legitimate son, not sworn to the King's Guard, and not branded as a kinslayer, Tyrion would inherit Casterly Rock and all its power. While not as ruthless as Tywin, Tyrion is certainly more than clever and pragmatic enough to capitalize on Tywin's previous gains in order to consolidate Lannister power, without making too many new enemies. In fact Tyrion's decency might prove an asset in the wake of Tywin's death, as Tyrion might be willing to make the necessary compromises to forge a truce with Stannis and Daenerys long enough to deal with the White Walkers. And book Tyrion might be just ruthless enough to eliminate Stannis and Daenerys in the process of dealing with the Walkers. Book Tyrion is also one of the more knowledgeable individuals about dragons, knowledge which may include a means of neutralizing Daenerys dragons when the time comes.
I have a slight derivation of the response to Joffrey’s “tragic” demise. Speaking objectively, it was bad enough that the King was poisoned at his own wedding, but another Lannister being held responsible compounds the embarrassment. All Tywin has to do is tell Cersei to chill out for a moment and order the guards to stay their hands. But you’re correct that this merely delays the inevitable. Varys will have Tywin removed from the board, sooner rather than later. Who gets the regency in this situation, though? Does a triumvirate of Tyrion, Jaime, and Kevan forestall her taking control, with perhaps more than a hint of help from the Tyrells?
One potential issue: Ol’ Randy Tarley was a Targaryen loyalist in the baratheon uprising, there’s some chance he would side with Gryff but not very likely as he probably just sided with the targs because the Tyrells did
For step 2, what about Bronn? Ruthless, shown to be a strong leader of the gold cloaks, and loyal to whoever pays him the most, and you cant get a bigger payment than Storms End and all the stormlands. He would also likely remove decent in the Stormlands quietly. Plus the whole theme of him in the show seems to be how similar cut throat sell swords are to lords so, in the fiction, its probably a good choice.
@18:35 Kevan Lannister was my immediate thought. He's both a capable military commander and a good administrator, with a much defter touch than Tywin "fictional version of King Edward I Longshanks AKA the Hammer of the Scots" Lannister
I disagree and think honor on westeros is genuinely important it's like Parlay from pirates of the Caribbean movies. No one likes it but if you break Parlay you lose all rights to claim it
I think there are ways to safe Tywin. As for Varys, Tywin should know him since Aerys II, so might distrust him already. And if Joffrey does get poisoned, and you don't accuse the Imp, the Eunuch will be your next choice. Especially if none of the women have a reason to kill the King. Looking at it from a distance, Jaime even realizes that Varys didn't warn anyone about the riots before Blackwater, despite allegedly knowing everything. For Oberyn, Mace Tyrell already distrusts him, and is especially worried since Margaery could have died as well. So, if you hint at Mace that you suspect Oberyn, if only to play out Martells and Tyrells against each other, it could set some things in motion as well. It might of course not be enough, but worth a thought, I'd say. And about Stannis. I'd imagine, if Tywin learns about him being at the wall, he might send southron forces north. At that time, he still has the son of Lord Manderly as a hostage, and with the Vale back under the Iron Throne,the eastern coast should be secured for now, as well. So, the Manderlys might be cautious to betray the Boltons. Tywin suggested to let the northmen and Ironborn fight each other for now, without sending troops, but the arrival of Stannis in the north might change his priorities.
The Faceless Men charge alot but they don't actively try to beggar their clients. They killed Balon for Euron in exchange for a dragon egg and his hulls stay laden with treasure. They're an option for the Lannisters.
This is just I wanted finally an iceberg video 40 minutes plus with intricate details but what I need is how the Jedi could have beaten palpatine using all reference points like the plagueis audiobook ,darth maul audiobooks ,dooku audiobooks as well as clone wars and the prequels to give an accurate depiction of how they could do it I personally think that’s impossible because the republic was crumbling regardless of palpatine’s machinations and the fact the Jedi are not a autonomous entity they are subservient to the senate doesn’t allow them to do what is necessary to quell the threat because their mandate is dictated not by their own agenda so to me they were doomed from the beginning because palpatine planned for every contingency and was incredibly patient but I would like to hear your thoughts and to see a iceberg video on this topic
On top of this if Tywin survives Tyrion, Oberyn martell, and the spider, the Tyrells would hire an assassin for him next, and if Tywin survives that, he is still on Arias hit list, and if he survived that little finger enjoys causing chaos so he'd definitely try to kill him. The only way the lions can win post Tywin is for Cersei to die... Everyone hates Joffrey he can be barely controlled spare cercsei and everyone is screwed
I think Tywin will take advantage of the North and Jon's desperate need for help, and in addition to demanding Jon to bend the knee, he will force Jon to marry Myrcella, thus fulfilling the failed plan with Sansa and Tyrion. Dorne and the North are the most problematic and difficult regions for the Lannisters to control. And after a failed attempt to pacify Dorne by marrying Trystane and Myrcella, Tywin will try to pacify the North by marrying Jon and Myrcella. It's hard to rebel if your bride is a sister of the king and carrying your child under her heart.
Ser Balon Swann could be a better alternative than Randyll Tarly. He’s known to be loyal and Cersei even used his reputation of being honest as a blow against Tyrion during the trial. Most importantly he is a Kingsguard and a Stormlander.
I love how the Lanisters winning is basically "How can Tywin avoid the consequences of his own actions"
The lannisters win the game of thrones if Tyrion doesn't kill him, simple. He's the one who destroyed his legacy.
@@Huhbroski The Lannisters had already lost. Tyrion killing Tywin just means that Tywin isn't the captain when their ship hits and iceberg, but at that point, Tywin had already steered them into the fatal current and the iceberg is unavoidable.
Tywin set the family up for failure by raising his kids to be arrogant, aristocratic snobs with no empathy and a superiority complex that let them think they could do whatever they wanted, because Lannister. This resulted in Cersei having Jaime's babies, leaving them wide open to accusation of treason. Then, when Tyrion was arrested, Tywin really screwed his family over by starting a war with the Tullys, knowing that it would bring in the Starks as well. His daughter managed to persuade the king to order Tyrion's release, but Robert also commanded "no more fighting" so when Tywin's role in Gregor's raiding comes out, he is going to be in trouble with the king. When Ned sends men under the royal banner to arrest Gregor, he is basically daring Tywin to attack them, because this will mean declaring war on the king, and bringing all of Westeros down on Tywin's head.
And Tywin is stupid enough to take the bait. Again, his daughter bails him out by killing Robert but Tywin had no idea she was doing this, so from his point of view, he was directly declaring war on the Baratheons, after having already declared war on the Tullys, which means you're also at war with the Starks, and should be at war with the Arryns. Again, he has no idea that Petyr is keeping the Arryn forces out of the war, so that's another stroke of good luck on Tywin's part, otherwise, he'd have been swamped by overwhelming odds. As it is, he gets his ass kicked across the continent and back by a teenager fighting in his first war, and Edmure freaking Tully. With two whole armies destroyed by Robb Stark and another badly bloodied by a battle Roose Bolton was not even trying to win, and another battle that Edmure should not have even fought, but still beat Tywin soundly, Tywin is basically at the end of his rope. The only reason why he didn't die then and there was that his children made an alliance of desperation with the Tyrells, who had plenty of manpower and food.
Because he needed the Tyrells so badly, Tywin is more or less forced to give them everything they want, even while they are plotting to murder his grandson so that Joffrey's more pliable younger brother can be king. By the end of book 5, the Lannisters are only clinging to power because the Tyrells don't have Tywin's extreme ego problem and understand the value of using the Lannisters to preserve their own image. Basically, a Lannister is still regent because it suits the Tyrells' purposes. And they can't really do anything about it, because Tywin's idiotic picking of impossible fights has left them so depleted they can't even muster enough troops to besiege a single castle.
While the Lannisters provide only 1/3 of the soldiers besieging Riverrun, they need River lords who have been forced back into allegiance to the Iron Throne and the Freys to provide the other 2/3, the Tyrells & their vassals are taking Brightwater Keep from the Florents, besieging Storm's End, using a naval force to besiege Dragonstone, and occupying the eastern Riverlands, based at Maidenpool. They are NOT winning the game of thrones, they are going to do all the brutal dirty work to secure the realm for Tommen, who will grow up doing everything that his wife Margaery and his in-laws suggest, and Margaery's second son will inherit Casterly Rock, and his sigil will be a golden lion & golden rose on a green field, while the royal sigil is a stag and rose and the Lannister lion will diminish in the annals of Westeros. Except Aegon is coming back to fuck all that up.
Even if there was some ridiculously contrived way for the Lannisters to pull out a win over the Tyrells and for Tywin to reclaim the reins, even if he somehow manages to overcome the Riverlands uprising when his sister & brother-in-law are massacred in Riverrun at his cousin Daven's wedding, even if he somehow comes up with a plan to reclaim the North from an ascendant Stannis, or the Vale from Littlefinger, Sansa & their tool, Harold Hardyng, Euron is going trash Oldtown with his planned sorcerous rite and Aegon is coming to reclaim the throne for the Targaryens, and the Faith will leap to embrace him over the man who sacked Kings Landing and whose brutal policies in the Riverlands have created the refugees who have started the sparrow movement.
There is no good end for House Lannister and especially not Tywin. Their best hope was back at the beginning, doing what Tyrion wanted to do about his arrest - go to Robert, complain and demand a fair trial. This would prove Tyrion's innocence in the assassination attempt on Bran, embarrass the Starks and head off their inquiries into the Lannisters' conspiracy. Unfortunately for the Lannisters, even if Petyr is killed resisting arrest for his lie about the ownership of the dagger used by the assassin, there are too many people who know the truth about the twincest, and it will come out, even if Ned Stark slinks home in disgrace after falsely indicting the queen's brother. Tywin lost the game of thrones when he let his elder children reach maturity without a proper moral upbringing and decent education in reality.
@@Huhbroski All Tywin had to do to not provoke his son to murder is to not be a monster to his son. Tywin’s own death was Tywin’s fault.
@@Huhbroski This is just epically wrong. You keep citing 90,000 men from somewhere, but the point is, they are mostly Tyrell men, and they are not going to do Tywin's dirty work without a lot more in the way of rewards. You offer no proof of anything nor any reasoning behind your assertions. You somehow think that citing Edmure's efficient and prudent tactics and preparations for battle somehow disprove his victory, you completely misunderstand military operations and victory conditions, you seem to think battle is like a ball game, where win only counts when you play under strictly even conditions, except for numbers, of course. Tywin being born into the family with a larger population base and income, allowing him to field a larger army than most, somehow makes him superior, but Robb attacking the Lannisters' vulnerabilities and out-maneuvering Tywin to achieve his military objectives with the least loss of life on his side (which any professional soldier would say is absolutely the measure of a superior commander) proves he can't beat Tywin one on one.
You assert that Tywin would not make Cersei's mistakes, but Cersei is raised by Tywin, with Tywin's attitudes and her guiding light is "What would Tywin do?" Even if her methods are bad, she is dealing with problems created by Tywin, and Tywin himself argues against the best solutions. He does not understand finance, so he is as blind to the problem of the crown's debts as Cersei is, which means the Iron Bank is going to be financing his foes, just like they do with her. Tywin refuses to use Lannister money to pay off those debts, he refuses to forgive the debt the crown owes House Lannister and he even refuses to pay for the royal wedding. He is NOT going to have a constructive solution the money the crown owes the banks or the Faith, instead, they are going to see him draining the treasury to pay off his own debts and move against him.
You can't see how Aegon is going to beat Tywin, but you are completely forgetting who is the sine qua non of removing all the smart people from the Lannister regime, and who also is sponsoring Aegon? Remember Varys? Varys who guided Tywin's murderer to the bedroom where he was alone and vulnerable? Varys who murdered Pycelle and Kevan? Who hid for months in the secret passages of the Red Keep while the best efforts of Jaime & co failed to find him? Tywin is going to live as long as Varys wants him to and not a moment longer.
Tywin is not going to be able to stop the uprisings in the Riverlands, he is not going to be able to quell the North or the Vale. The Vale might not have the numbers, but the Lannisters are not going to be able to force the passes of the Mountains of the Moon, and Mace Tyrell won't make the effort without more rewards. He was willing to write off the whole North to the Greyjoys. He is not going to be able to reconquer the North, because his plan was for the Boltons to do all the dirty work before Tyrion comes in with Sansa and their child to claim it from them. And no, he will not be able to find a red-haired girl to substitute. PETYR had Jeyne Poole, Tywin can't be bothered with little details like that, and Jeyne only worked because she grew up in Winterfell and had much the same knowledge of the castle and the North and the Stark family that outsiders would be able to check in a daughter of Ned. There are no red-haired girls who know what Sansa or Arya or Jeyne does and any fake Tywin offered would not be accepted without proof.
Your solution to all these problems is "90,000" men, but they are mostly Tyrell men. The Lannisters can only scare up 1/3 of the troops needed to besiege a single castle, and they need troops from the Freys or their former enemies to hold what few castles they do take, such as at Darry, Harrenhal and Seaguard. Randyll Tarly and his Reacher men hold Maidenpool, and Brienne's Lannister warrant barely gets her any credit with him, and meanwhile, he is marrying the daughter of the Mootons to his son to gain an inheritance claim. That is the price for using an ally's men to achieve your goals, you have to share the prize.
Tywin is not keeping the Tyrells subject to him by force of will, he is buying their cooperation with most of the rewards of the victory at the Blackwater, important offices in the regime, a lordship for his son, lands, castles, heirs and tax breaks for his friends, and he has to run anything important past Mace. His children note that he is spending all his time with Mace trying to appease him. He never once tells them "no" and they murder his grandson to replace him with a more pliable and younger child, and make Tywin reward them by giving Tyrion's office & council seat to Mace's uncle. And no, Joffrey dying is not remotely a win for Tywin, nor does Tywin hate Joffrey. He is upset because one of his offspring is balking him so badly, when in his mind, they are all his puppets and extensions of his will. He would NEVER kill Joffrey or admit there was anything wrong with him, because he is the embodiment of Tywin's lifelong dream. Mace does not consider the Lannisters family, he talks up the union because it is convenient and he is leveraging their marital relationship to get more concessions and rewards out of them. He shows no consideration to his Lannister family, unless they can demonstrate that what they are asking of him benefits the Tyrells as well.
@@Huhbroski And regarding the non-Tywin bits your incoherent screed, Catelyn was not taking Tyrion to be tried at her sister's house, she actually objected to the whole procedure. The point was taking Tyrion as a hostage and information source. The smart play for the Lannisters was to have Robert take over the whole thing and hear the case against Tyrion himself, because they would win. Tywin chose to react in a way that saw Jaime placed in prison, Tyrion endangered in a battle and Cersei and her children exposed at court with few troops to protect them, because Tywin had already become entangled in a war with the Starks and Tullys. If Tywin is not already in the middle of a war he can use those troops to secure the throne, but he reacted badly to the Stark threat. As for the twincest thing being none of Tywin's doing, again, that is a failure on his part. And it is absolutely Ned's business, and the business of every subject of the Iron Throne, and he is NOT a hypocrite, because he is not trying to obtain an inheritance for Jon that Jon has no right to.
Furthermore, the Baratheons WERE the rightful rulers. The whole point of kingship in a feudal aristocracy is a compact between the king and the lords, where both sides have to uphold their end, and the king has to respect their rights. Aerys broke that compact and Rhaegar did his own damage and then sided with Aerys. For this reason, the lords of the realm rejected them as rulers and acclaimed Robert. They acclaimed Robert because he had the closest blood claim to the throne, over Jon, who led the Rebellion and Ned, who was the Lord most wronged by the Targaryens. Aerys & Rhaegar forfeited the right to pass on their positions by inheritance because when you violate the feudal compact, you lose your rights. A lord who betrays his king is attained, and his children cannot inherit his lands or castle, and likewise, a king who betrays his vassals loses the right to pass on his throne to his own heirs. After the attainted line of Aerys, Robert was next in line by inheritance. Not even the Targaryens would contest that, though they would argue Aerys & Rhaegar's disinheritance was illegitimate. But EVERYONE agreed the succession went Aerys, Rhaegar, Aegon, Viserys, Robert. Aegon & Viserys were removed from the line because of their fathers' crimes. If you can claim the throne because your father took it, you can lose the throne for his failures as well.
Stop apologising for the length of the video lol. I think we all want longer and more detailed ones. This was great and I’d like to see more of the same
Absolutely!
This^
100% i wanna watch a 1 hour vud not a 20 minute teaser lol
Plus let's face it, it's the Lannisters. The details were bound to be plenty.
It's ironic. Tywin spent so long hoping for his house to last through the ages, yet was completely incapable of recognising that his terrible parenting was the very thing that would keep that from happening ^^;
Or maybe his children are just entitled and ignorant to westerosi politics
@Huhbroski A bit of both really.
Tywin was a terrible parent. And his kids were terrible people who got in their own way to much. Cersei easily was the worst one with how destructive and short-sighted she is.
Clicked faster on the video than Lancel went for the breastplate stretcher.
“Maybe you should have one invented”
How long before ‘e figures it out?
@@LordWyatt We are five books in but I think he might be onto it...
😂
@@3esiln on god
In other words, Tywin forgot the second half of that famous Machiavelli quote: "Don't be hated." Dorne, the Riverlands and the North all hate his guts, not to mention Daenerys.
Basically. It was all salvageable until he did the Red wedding. But on some level, he thinks the starks are wiped out. Arya is the only unknown, and they presume bran/rickon are dead and they have Sansa (until Littlefinger does his thing).
It's also short sighted of tywin to believe that the Boltons would rule the north for long, and knowing they are literal back stabbers is a huge red flag lol. In his desperate attempt to end the war and protect the family, the relations with half the country are irreparable, which isn't peace. It's only peace as long as you're alive and as long as you have control/power. Even if tywin didn't die and lived for another 5 years, Lannisters grip on the throne would slowly fade, as I can definitely see Dorne/iron born/the vale backing Daenerys
It's impossible not to be hated by your enemies, I can name multiple people that hate the Starks. That quote only applies to vassels, I'm sure. Machiavelli also states that if you do something bad to someone, you must cripple them somehow so they do not come back for vengeance, and that's exactly what Tywin did to all his enemies
@M.L.official Tywin didn't plan for the Boltons to rule the North his plan was for Tyrion to rule the North. That's why he married him to Sansa. The Boltons were just scapegoats for the red wedding. He even predicts Stark loyalists will fight the Boltons, and when Tyrion son by Sansa arrives, "the last living Stark," he will declare him lord of Winterfell.
@@Huhbroski Didn't Tywin also set up "fake Arya" as a means to help the Boltons in securing the North?
@ChildOfTheFlower No, it was littlefinger, but he told Tyrion the scheme impressed him, implying he'd probably make a fake Sansa after the Barlish Sansa plot. And even if Sansa is the older Stark daughter and is higher in the line of succession.
Lord of the Stormlands: Tommen Baratheon
Tommen's Regent: Ser Barristan Selmy
Had Selmy not been dismissed from the Kingsguard (a minor contrivance to offset Cersei,'s stupidity), he would have been the prime choice to rule the Stormlands in Tommen's name. He lacks personal ambition and would see serving as regent for Prince Tommen as his duty as a Kingsguard Knight. As a Stormlander, he would not be seen by the Baratheon bannermen as an outsider. As a legendary knight, no vassal in the Stormlands would consider rebelling or continue supporting Stannis.
Problem is that kingsguard aren't allowed to own land, and trying to get him to leave his position would just give us the same scenario as normal
Dismiss him from the kings guard and give him the stormlands for service to the kings
@@tsaralexis9459 He wouldn't own land. Tommen would own the land, and Selmy would rule in his stead, Cersei also held no lands as queen-regent to Joffrey for example. Sending a member of the royal family, i.e. Tommen to the Stormlands also requires a kingsguard member to protect him, since they have a duty to protect all of the royal family. This idea could work out, but Selmy is the lord commander, which makes things a bit more complicated since you would essentially leave the KG leaderless in King's Landing itself
@@vincentlepera4054 I still doubt selmy would accept this, he would still probably consider it a violation of his vows, although I guess it is possible
@@tsaralexis9459 Yeah Selmy is kind of a perfect candidate, but Tommen does need to rule the Stormlands, someone just needs to be his regent tbh. The Lannisters just need the strength of the Stormlands for the future, so giving it someone like Tarly will come back to bite you in the ass sooner or later.
I implore you, kind sirs, cease not with these videos. These scratch a SPECIAL ITCH on what's there to love about the worldbuilding and characters of ASOIAF.
@@zheng7636 I could not have worded this any better
That special itch may or may not have come from a house down in flea bottom but eh who’s to say.
@@timothylong3110 Impossible. I am the proud husband to a refined highborn lady, and frequent only the finest of Baelish's establishments in the Street of Silk.
@19:53 "We've had vicious kings, and we're had idiot kings, but I don't' know that we'v'e ever been cursed with a vicious idiot king!" Although the show-only quote is excellent, Tyrion's book assessment of Joffrey is even more spot-on: "no he's not Robert II, he's Aerys III". There HAS been a vicious idiot king before Joffrey, and that king's rule ended with half the continent rising in rebellion and 300 years of Targaryen rule coming crashing down
The show does not seem to be aware that was the issue in the Rebellion, they think it's all about Lyanna. They say this more than once, at one point saying that the Rebellion was based on a lie, in response to the discovery of the Rhaegar & Lyanna's romance, and another time, that everything that happened was the result of Robert loving a woman who did not love him back. As far as the show is concerned, any king who appoints Tywin Hand can't be that much of an idiot.
Tywin Lannister: the stern stepdad Westeros needed during the reigns of Ayres II Targaryen and Ayres III Joffrey.
@@georgeprchal3924 More like the creepy, handsy, physically violent stepdad, who blew through the family savings and spent them on his personal vanity projects, but okay, sure.
For one thing Tywin being less of a prick to his kids especially towards Tyrion.
Why are we excusing Tyrion for making an emotional decision in a political world? He destroyed house lannister and Tywins legacy.
@Huhbroski Tywin deserved it. He treated Tyrion like crap all his life and tried to have him executed and then sent to the wall for a crime he didn't commit, and Tywin knew it. And then he slept with Shae as one final act of pettiness. Tywin's downfall is no one's fault but his own.
@@Huhbroski House Lannister had already betrayed Tyrion by that point. He owed them no more loyalty.
@leeashley1902 Man Tywin has been trying to mold Tyrion into a pragmatic political player like him all his life. Tyrion got himself into that trial by antagonizing Cersei and Joffrey unprovoked when he was hand. Treating and belittling Cersei when he first arrived, poisoning her for no reason, sending her guards away, leaving her vulnerable, physically assaulting Joffrey multiple times and threatening to grape Tommon and ruin Cerseis life. Tyrion got himself in that position, and still Tywin made sure he wouldn't be executed and would probably relieve him off his vows because he needed him to be lord of Winterfell to control the north.
@Huhbroski Okay, One: Tywin has belittled Tyrion his whole life regardless of what he did for him. Two: Cersei and Joffrey wouldn't have been insulted by Tyrion if they didn't keep fucking things up. Cersei dismissed Ser Barristan, let Joffrey get out of control, let Joffrey abuse Sansa, they're ONLY hostage and kept trying to sabatoge Tyrion when he was trying to clean up her fuck ups. Joffrey, do I even need to go into details when it comes to him? Three: Tyrion poisoned Cersei because she kept getting in his way to save her Dumbass of a son and herself. Four: As for Tommen. We both know Tyrion wouldn't have done that. Cersei was the one threatening Tyrion all the time. It was fair, and as for sending her guards away, you seriously believe CERSEI should be trusted with guards? She would cause all kinds of trouble with them. Tywin not executing Tyrion is only common sense because Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey. There shouldn't even have been a trial in the first place, but Tywin let it happen because of his irrational hatred of Tyrion. Tywin deserved his fate, and I won't apologize for believing so.
"We're not here for horses, were here for lions"
Ah so no Tryek then
How many characters have we last seen a-lyin'?
@14:54 Plus don't forget: in the books, the nominal overlord of the Riverlands is Emmon Frey, who is married to Genna Lannister, Tywin's sister. And there is NO ONE who thinks Emmon is the one wearing the pants in that relationship. The Freys may be in charge in name, but for the immediate future, Genna is calling the shots, and she is also the one grooming Emmon's heir, Tywin Frey, to one day rule, meaning that even after rule passes to Tywin, he will likely be more of a Lannister than a Frey, regardless of what his last name is. Having House Frey of Riverrun be the Lords Paramount of the Riverlands basically turns the Riverlands into an extension of the Westerlands
Actually, no. When Emmon says something about being a good overlord and be strict but fair with his father, Jaime corrects him that he is only lord of Riverrun and Petyr Baelish is the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, as Lord of Harrenhal. He was given those titles at the end of Book 2, as a reward for his efforts in negotiating the marriage alliance with the Tyrells.
He was an amazing leader based on fear but that’s the only reason he had the loyalty. But rob showed his weak spots and people realised he wasn’t invincible but his greatest skill from using others to do his dirty work promising them the world.
What did Robb expose? Tywin ruled the 7 kingdom for 20 years, earning loyalty from people like Pycelle mainly because of competence
@ that he’s beatable Tywins power lies in fear and the tales of houses he has destroyed. Rob showed he can be beaten and that scared him that’s why he got the Bolton and the frays to turn.
@Tardycripple Robb didn't beat him though matterfact him avoiding Tywin and going for less competent lannisters like Jaime and Steffod is what lead to his many victories. Robb avoided him in the greenfork and in Harrenhall, when he tried to face him in the West Stannis attacked Kingslanding. The lannisters and Tyrell army was like 90 000 he could of defeated the Starks martially but he wanted Tyrion to inherit Winterfell.
@ he was the leader of the Lanaster forces rob showed they could be beaten even if it wasn’t in the open field all time and he needed the Tyrrells to beat stan the man he wasn’t as good as he wanted everyone to believe.
The one real problem I see that will probably kill house lannister in the long run is how utterly dispised they are by pretty much everyone else.
With the red wedding the chance of house lannister ever ruling peacfully has been destroyed and the chance that they get red weddinged themselves is enormous.
I feel like Arya coming back after being trained by the faceless men might be problematic
She isn't exactly a fan of the Lannisters after all
The Hound (once part of Team Lion) talked her out of killing Cersei pretty easily on the show. One might say unbelievably easily.
@@williamshelton4318 One might say she "kind of forgot about her murder list"
I don’t think you should have Tywin (be rumoured to) kill Joffrey because of the taboo of kinslaying which is a line even Tywin admitted he wouldn’t cross.
Except for Tyrion. Everything (initially) worked out perfectly for Tywin in the books/show. Tyrion gets accused, Tywin can get rid of Tyrion. Jaime offers to leave the Kingsguard to save Tyrion, Tywin immediately accepts. Had Shae not provoked Tyrion to go off-script and demand a Trial by Combat, Tywin would have gotten Tyrion sent to the Wall and Jaime restored as his heir.
@LordBloodraven- Even if people thought Tywin set Tyrion up to be falsely prosecuted, he could just say there was a trial by combat and the gods decided. Which makes it difficult to call him a kinslayer.
Really enjoy these long videos
How you deal with the Tyrion/Oberyn/Varys triple threat:
1) Tywin may want Tyrion dead, but neither of them are stupid. He has to know that Tyrion wouldn’t kill Joffrey with something everyone saw him and to him. If Tyrion wanted to kill Joffrey, he had plenty of time and a battle to do it, but he didn’t. Just find Tyrion not guilty or insist that, as I believe is the law, the crown’s champion must be on the kings guard. You’ve made the deal with Jaime already, so the obvious choice is Boros Blount. Bronn will fight for Tyrion in this scenario, as the price to kill Blount will be lower than that to kill Gregor, which he was still willing to do. Unlike Tyrion, Tywin has the ability to arrange a castle for Bronn. Either way, Tyrion lives, and Jaime takes his place as your heir. Threat 1 is avoided.
2) Oberyn’s plot to poison Tywin gets foiled by doing something that should have been obvious to Tywin: using a food taster. The king’s just been murdered. You still have Stannis and Balon at war with you. Your hold on the North is tenuous. And then there’s Dorne: a historical pain in the neck, whose ruling house hates you personally, and who can claim the throne and start another succession war because of equal primogeniture laws if Myrcella’s marriage happens. The poison expert who wants you dead most is constantly with you. Just having a good taster, which should be an obvious reaction to the scenario. likely staves off his plan.
3) Keeping guards around you is likely the best way to avoid Varys’ attempt, but it likely will succeed. Varys doesn’t make a move until he’s certain he won’t die for it, so he’ll have to get you alone like he did with Kevan. Keeping guards with you presents a risk he won’t take.
This is a reward for our patience thank you been waiting forever for this
They were so close, they just had to kill Varys and Littlefinger after Blackwater, and have Dany assassinated.
Killing Dany is easy considering Tywin got the money, and if by some chance he knows about the Faceless Men in Braavos. Send a envoy with Carts full of gold, and pay them to take her out. I'm sure a handful of Faceless men sent towards her would be enough.
Now the real question how could the wildlings win the game of thrones
No the real question is how could the Boltons win the game of thrones, or even better how could Khal Drogo win the game of thrones
@Psub950 Khal Drogo would need to start by buying his army some proper armour.
balon swann could be a great regent for the stormlands hes incredibly loyal and notably his father didn't send any troops to fight since his other son was for stannis while balon was for joffrey so he does have a small army in the stormlands to call on possibly and he is one of their own.
young griff never goes to westeros without dany if tyrion stays with the lannisters he convinced the boy king to go and accomplish something to win her hand and he convinces the golden company to join him plus jon con never gets greyscale from saving him so they may join forces with dany and break her out of trouble if they can
Would Dany accept Young Griff though? "Sup. I'm your brother's son. Don't ask why the Golden Company is supporting me. hehehe. So I know you have the first Dragons since Aegon V's time, but like. I should be king. Mary me maybe?"
@@TommoBoyyo
I think she would be much more willing to accept him if he brought ten thousand golden company men and broke the slaver siege currently engulfing her and a bonus if she gets another dragon rider that she’s looking for and she may be willing to marry him if hizdar happens to contract a fatal case of sword through bowels
@@thepunisher6674 You don't think she'd immediately arch her eyebrows and ask the same question everyone does - Why is the Golden Company fighting for the Red Dragon?
Isn't one of her formative memories her brother inviting them to a feast where he proposed they join forces and they all just rolled over laughing at him?
Wouldn't she question the sudden loyalty?
Or do you think there would just be an unspoken awareness that the Red and Black Dragons were teaming up and all future Targaryens would be both Black and Red and nobody asks too many questions about why Young Griff suddenly has Blackfyre?
Now. Here's the other question though - Which one of them 'sits the throne'?
Do you think Young Griff, and more importantly his supporters, is willing to play the Consort's part? Is Daenerys? The one who brings the fire breathing dragons? Early in her story she may well have if Young Griff had offered her 'A house in Kings Landing with a red door and a lemon tree outside the window'; but by that point in the story, she may be too far gone to simply be content.
@
She would probably think that illyrio gave a bunch of money too them so they would fight he was a beggar when he met with the golden company and she still thinks of illyrio as a staunch ally
And dany grew up a beggar as well so she would probably have no idea about the complex history of the blackfyres and the Targaryens since she never got those lesson and her only education is viserys stories, and if she did hear anything about the blackfyres it would be barristan selmy slaying the last one alive official the blackfyres are dead
And they would marry and both be important in the same way jeahaerys the first and queen Alisane were and dany might just support young griff off the jump if she new about him she was trying to support viserys until he died even after years off abuse I’m sure she would be willing to support someone who isn’t completely insane
If Tyrion didn't kill Tywin, Oberyn would have, after a few days. One of my favorite theories is that before his final duel with the Mountain, he poisoned Tywin's drink with Widows Blood (which was stolen from Pycelle's stock, as said at Tyrion's trial). That poison is basically supposed to be death by constipation, which explains why Tywin was out of the room for long enough for Tyrion to murder Shae, and his bowels didn't finally "let go" until after Tyrion shot him. It also explains why his professionally embalmed body was still rotting (and at an extreme rate, described as "as if it is full of toxins") at his funeral.
His body almost certainly underwent sepsis as his bowels were perforated. It's one of my big reasons for not buying into the poisoned theory. A body left for hours and hours after being shot through the shit tubess smelled bad, and an old man was constipated.
These are the best kind of franchise celebrations out there. Highly detailed speculations and discussions about different aspects of our favorite fictional worlds and their what if scenarios. Please go on with these.
I'd like to suggest a what if video / videos about the different religions uprising in Westeros. We saw The Seven uprising in the show, but what about The Old Gods, Drowned God, or The Lord of Light. What would their faith militant look like, and how would they try to overthrow the government.
this is actually a super interesting video idea. id love to see how the ironborn would actually bring their religion worldwide if that was their goal
@16:38 "The Mannis is the correct answer in all things"
Who is the most beautiful woman in Westeros? The Mannis
Who will be the next Sword of the Morning? The Mannis
Who put the bop in the bop-a-bop-a-bop, who put the ram in the ramma-lamma-ding-dong? Thats's right: The Mannis
I see no mistakes. All true.
My pic for the storm land region would be the Crakhall Lord, he’s from the west like Taiwan so he has loyalty, but most importantly they are a house based on warfare. None of their commanders are any bright spots when it comes to a top 10 commanders list, but they’re strong nature would provide a firm hand that is needed, but the fact that there are smaller house in the west would ensure that no one on any side would get any ideas of them actually taking over completely.
The Dany question gets completely bypassed if Joffrey doesn’t dismiss Barristan because he doesn’t get to stop the assassin.
Additionally, at least in the books, Jaime is Warden of the East. That goes a long way if not countered by Baelish/Lysa.
21:24 Maybe they could blow up Joffrey and Cersei with wildfire and then frame the Ironborn for it, that way you can deny responcibility and use it as a reason to level the Iron island if they want to.
Another brilliant video we will forgive you, for not making manice the king this time 😂 keep it up guys !!
This is a wonderful thought experiment god i would give anything to be in the room with you guys when you’re discussing this series
It's possible A Stannis/Robb Alliance would work ONLY if Ned goes to the wall. If he goes against his sentence, Stannis may have an "oathbreaker" issue, either by his own morals or in the eyes of the lords.
But you don’t make your oath until after you get to the wall all that would happen if he didn’t got to the wall would be that Ned would be considered an outlaw/ traitor in the south
And considering that the king who deems this is illegitimate I personally don’t think Stan is would hold that against him
@shaymurphy4951 Fair. I was indeed referring to Ned running away from the sentence rather than the sentence itself. And while it's true that Stannis may show *some* leniency because of legitimacy and all that, remember that Davos also helped him but had to pay a price, so I'm wondering if that comes in to play.
@jthecaffeinatedcrow6456 yeah but stannis is also realistic and would realise that the sentence was malicious and unjust in the first place
@@jthecaffeinatedcrow6456 but you gotta consider wether or not Stannis believes Ned did anything wrong cause all he did was try and give Stannis (the true heir to the throne) the iron throne Joffrey takes it as being a traitor Stannis probably sees it as the right thing to do
@@shaymurphy4951 I don't doubt that after the war, Stannis will pardon Ned, but it's during the war that may present an issue. There are some that may want to say no to Stannis if he allies with a "traitor", maybe thinking "Oh, how convenient that Stannis is supporting the guy who says HE is the rightful king". But if that traitor goes to the wall, and Stannis allies himself with his son (admittedly, the son of a traitor), there may be more willingness to join, or at least less apprehension. Afterwards, Stannis can say "I'm removing Ned Stark's sentence since it was bs".
You should do a hotd edition of how houses could have won, how the blacks could have won or how the greens could have won or even how house velaryon could have won.
Love the long videos!
I know the answer to this one! Tywin can win by actually being a father.
Well worth the wait for this epic remake! It's always made me laugh how even in the book, the Stomrlands are just sat to one side, twiddling their thumbs wondering how Stannis is getting on! Great work as always and big props to Thom for editing this Wun Wun of a video!
One whole hour?! Yes!
I appreciated the tiny clip of Jacaerys.
A Beast of a Video!
The amount of puns and jokes was just about perfect.
Can't find a loophole in your guys' logic for now, seems all accurate.
And as we always should: "Vote for the Stannis Baratheon Political party!"
What about Barristan Selmy? If Tywin prevents his dismissal, he'd be a good figurehead to send with or instead of Randyll Tarly and denies Dany a solid ally.
Please do a top 5 duelist vid for the star wars original trilogy (even though wr all know Vader is number 1 as hes basically zombie Greggor with an extra large lighsaber and actually has armour while also being as innately skilled as Jamie Lanister and as experienced as Bariston the Bold. I like the star wars videos as much as the thrones ones
Great video as usual.
Other than perhaps Stannis the Mannis, Tywin may have been the best leader for the peace and prosperity of Westeros. He was extraordinarily capable, practical, and willing to do what is necessary to run a empire (seven kingdoms makes it an empire). He was not immoral or cruel in of itself, he was willing to be exactly how “evil” he needed to succeed but would not go further and didn’t act that way out of malice, but necessity. Seeing the threats that faces Westeros and the world at large, you would need someone like him to lead that is willing to make the hard decisions.
He was also seen as honorable to the point that he would keep his word and follow through all deals, which is necessary for the stability of a realm. He put his family and house first, but who doesn’t? Both highborn and peasant, it is a rare man indeed that puts duty before all. Both in self interest and his belief in how the world should be run and men should act, Tywin would have lead the realms to peace, stability, and prosperity (once his enemies are disposed of that is).
There were few men as capable as Tywin in any regard, never mind all the aspects Tywin is great in. If he hadn’t had bastards like Joffrey ruin everything for Westeros, Tywin would likely have united the Seven Kingdoms once again, defeated Daenerys, and been prepared for the White Walker threat and been able to save the living from the dead. Good times would follow for all in the Seven Kingdoms, so long as you don’t make yourself Tywin’s enemy, people would do very well.
The true kings have returned! I’m happy to see this series continue
Been waiting on this for so long. Happy to see it guys.
Been waiting for this video for too long, so happy that it's here!
26:31, I actually have a rhetort here. If you reread Tyrions POV chapter where he kills Tywin, Tywin instantly thinks this is all Varys' doing. This indicates to me that Tywin is at least partially aware that Varys is not to be trusted and may be plotting against him; and is secretly waiting for the right time to strike. So, what if we just have Tywin find a way to rid Varys sooner? say he frames Tyrion and Varys for co-conspiring Jeoffrey's death and have them executed after a Kangaroo court? I know, easier said than done but its clear as good of player Varys is, it's clear Tywin has some sense of it and feels in the realm of possibility that Tywin can take him out before he's an issue.
Sadly, Varys was a skilled mummer, playing the loyal servant long enough to see his plots (in the books) come to fruition. Tywin likely intended to eventually eliminate Varys if his services were no longer required or he continuously failed to inform the Small Council of developing plots.
@@LordBloodraven I mean sure, but from the few times we hear Tywin talk of Varys, it's clear he had some suspicions about Varys...is it really that far out to think that Tywin would just find some trumped up charge and have varys killed before he could do anything? Granted that begs the question why didn't he do it in the first place, but this video is about how they COULD have won and its not like they wouldn't have opportunity to make charges against varys and have him killed if the Lannisters really wanted.
Tywin told Tyrion at the meeting when he made him hand to find out who came up with the idea to make Janos Slynt lord (Littlefinger), resign Ser Barristan (Varys) he suspected it was either Varys, Littlefinger or Pycelle and told Tyrion execute who was behind these blunders, "heads, spikes, walls" and Tyrion does find out from Cersei Varys told Joffrey to fire Barristan and Janos Slynt is Littlefingers man but Tyrion is nowhere near as pragmatic as he thinks he is and doesn't follow his father's order instead choosing to make Cersei an enemy and treat Varys as a friend because of Shay a whore who Tywin told Tyrion not to bring to kingslanding. If Tyrion followed Tywins orders Varys and Littlefingers heads would be on spikes.
So happy you finally did the lannister's, thank you.
Okay, so WITHOUT contrivances, I THINK we can keep the Lannisters from falling apart. At least in totality.
I can see two potential paths.
First: IF Tywin is the one who has Joffrey killed and IF he is able to make it where Tyrion isn't implicated and then IF he's able to get rid of Oberyn, then I don't think Varys moves quick enough to ruin them.
Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree that Varys would take out Tywin, but I don't think it's before Tywin has educated Tommin and trained him enough to have some backbone. By the time Tywin is taken out, Tommin should be less inclined to rolling over to Margery OR the Faith. That's assuming the Faith still become a thing. They only get power because of Cersei who emboldened them as a means to mitigate the Tyrells. IF Tywin was alive long enough to train Tommen for a while, that may not become necessary. This extra time ALSO gives more time for Jaime to continue his growth as a leader and gets him more entrenched in the pollitics. Something he was working on in the main timeline. Give him an extra few months or even a year without Cersei fucking up the whole thing and I believe that he can help mitigate Cersei. All in all, it's not a perfect position, BUT it IS one I think the Lannisters can use to work from.
Two: IF Tywin IS NOT the one that has Joffrey killed and it goes the way it did in the books, there MIGHT be a way to save Tyrion without MUCH contrivance. When Oberyn has his skull smashed in, Tywin, due to his deal with Jaime AND that small piece of Joanna that is inside him, Publicly declares that the Gods have made their will known and it is clear with both warriors down, Tyrion is guilty BUT your fate is to be sent to the Wall to repent and live your life in service to the Realm. This get's rid of Joffrey, Tyrion, and Oberyn while also keeping Jaime content. This brings Jaime closer than any other scenario and Jaime exponetially begins getting involved in politics. From here it's similar to what I said above and even if Varys kills Tywin, I don't think it's before Tommen and Jaime level up their skills enough to mitigate the Tyrells and the Faith.
Justifying sending Tyrion to the wall by saying "both warriors are down, therefore he's guilty but his life must be spared, so say the gods" is actually a brilliant hidden 3rd option. I like that a lot
. Every Lannister wins. Cersei gets to be free of him, Tyrion gets to live and kinda likes the Wall a little bit, Jamie is happy his brother is alive and Tyrion gets Jamie to hang up his white cloak and sire Lannister children.
Varys can't kill Tywin though atleast not easily, hiring an assassin is out the way I doubt anyone would allow a contract to kill the richest men it's too risky and Tywin has all types of weapons in the room and guards likely posted up outside the only way to kill him is by finding him on the privy and I doubt Varys has a timetable for that.
@@142doddyYou guys forget he wanted Tyrion to take winterfell and he made it clear he didn't value the nights watch vows I'm pretty sure he'd just relieve Tyrion from his vows when it's time to take the North.
Make Tywin shit more gold.
Like many others, i enjoy the longer style derailed breakdown. Really enjoy your work 😊
Love it! More! Take all the time you need! Thanks Tom!
2:09 Hey the one thing we can give D and D is this, they managed to finish the TV series without spoiling the books.
Brilliant video as always. Tom, I know you must be tired but please call off the faceless man. I need these videos like the mannis needs his birthright.
Paid for by the Stannis Baratheon party
Stannis would never pay for people to speak the truth. He would simply demand it of them. If they refuse to comply, he'd burn them to the Lord of Light, for the Night is Dark and full of Terrors.
as a loyal bannerman of house fanfyre, have my like and susbcribe as tribute for the algorithm
IMO: Once Tywin was dead and Cersei in power, it was gameover for the Lannisters.
The moment Ned makes his move, it's already too late for the Lannisters. They have already committed to their biggest blunders. By that point, they have gotten extremely lucky, in that Robert died before he could find out and react to
A. Tywin sending Gregor to raid the Riverlands in defiance of Robert's ruling that the Starks release Tyrion and the fighting is to end.
B. Tywin attacking Beric & Thoros under the royal banner, thus declaring war on the Iron Throne, and demanding a military response and harsh treatment of the offenders.
C. Twincest.
Robert learning about ANY of those things means instant destruction for House Lannister. His death is an extraordinary stroke of good luck beyond what the Lannisters deserve. From there, we get Tywin getting his ass kicked around the realm by a teenager fighting his first battle and there is not much else he can do, because he has committed to a hopeless strategic situation. Stannis is going for the throne, no matter how things turn out with Ned at court, and so is Renly, with a larger army than Tywin has. Basically any different military move Tywin makes, thanks to advice from an omniscient reader, leaves him vulnerable to a different set of enemies. If, rather than march north up the Kingsroad to meet what he thinks is Robb Stark, but is actually Roose Bolton, he move west, he still can't get back in time to save Jaime, just stare down a combined Stark-Tully army that has liberated Riverrun and now sits athwart his supply lines, with Bolton moving down into his rear, and Kings Landing hideously vulnerable to a Baratheon attack. If he tries to fight Robb, he will be going up against a military prodigy advised by a veteran warrior & leader defending his home turf, and Tywin probably goes down. If Cersei keeps a tighter reign on Joffrey and Varys doesn't let Littlefinger try some other means of killing Ned, it is possible that the Lannisters are able to trade Ned & Sansa for Jaime or another captive, but the fact that they lost Arya in OTL and there does not seem to be a way of changing that without cheating, means that negotiations will probably bog down long enough for a Baratheon to come into Kings Landing and do away with the Lannister claimants to the throne.
Tywin could, upon getting the news of Ned's fall, return to court to take over administering the realm, but that leaves Jaime alone in the field and soon to be Robb's captive. Tywin doesn't screw up the prisoner exchange, and he does not have Cersei's motivation to urge Ned into a false confession ASAP, so that will result in Ned being free to then throw his support behind Stannis. Even if he is forced to swear not to make war on the crown, the Lannisters can't stop him from backing up Stannis' claim, which will mean a lot more support. At the least, the riverlands, northmen and much of the Vale will back Stannis, and probably a lot of stormlords will bail on Renly.
The Lannisters are so toxic they can't run the realm through the crisis of the Others' invasion. The two latest books in the series could serve as a comparison of the respective legacies of Tywin & Ned. The book that explores Tywin's legacy is called "a feast for crows" because that's what Tywin left behind him. Jaime & Brienne roam around the former warzone and witness the devastation Tywin has caused, the complete breakdown of society. The prizes the Lannisters claim, the castles of Harrenhal & Darry are ruined shells, Lancel gives up his lordship to join the Faith, the result of the emotional, sexual and physical abuses inflicted on him by his Lannister cousin, and Riverrun has a Brotherhood spy already in place when the Lannisters take over. Jaime cannot effect the peaceful turnover of the castle, despite his sincerely intended & generous offered terms because of his and his father's well-earned reputations for treachery, oath-breaking and peace-violations. The extenuating circumstances of Jaime's oath-breaking are not known, because Tywin raised him with the attitude that he should not have to explain himself to lesser beings. The alliances Tywin made are to the Tyrells, who are betraying him & stealing his government out from under him, to the weak, venal and unreliable Freys, whose atrocities have turned every hand against them, and their Lannister patrons, as well as with the Boltons who scoffed in Jaime's face at the notion of Tywin's wrath. The Boltons are no better able to hold the North than Tywin's brother-in-law Emmon Frey can hold Riverrun, and neither Boltons nor Freys can keep the peace in their respective regions.
What if Arthur Dayne lived and sir Barristan died how would that change things?
Love the videos! Your view of Stannis is making you too optimistic of his chances. Even if he does win against the white walkers, his forces will be seriously diminished.
Tywin doesn’t need to invade. He just needs to stop food from coming in to the North and send raiders to further devastate their food supply. Stannis invading against a vastly superior foe is highly unlikely to succeed.
Since this video is only 52 minutes long, I'm going to have to watch it twice.
It is worth mentioning that without Tyrion being exiled, he never convinces Griff/Jon Con to turn west, meaning that Faegon and Dany will join up and invade Westeros together. Adding the golden Company to Dany's forces would make Tywin's war of attrition even harder
By Christ this took a while to come out 😂 thank you sirs
15:12 my brother, what are you talking about? the Stormlands were an active battleground up until the very last chapters of the last book. Storm's End was under Stannis' control through his supporters. Yes, Tomen/Joffrey have a claim to the Stormlands as a whole, but George didnt just "kinda forget" about the whole place, it was heavily disputed by 2, now 3, major forces.
Glad you all included the no co-opt wins because literally everything would have been fine if Cersei’s children were actually fathered by Robert.
10:02 And apparently Joffrey Baratheon is a tactical genius
Excellent, I wanted a more in-depth version of the Lannister video. Early christmas to me.
Khal drogo vs the north would just be dothroki freeze to death right?
Correct me if I'm wrong.
We need a how bronn wins the game of thrones next
He already did
The Fandomists always pay their debts.
Tywin should've married Catelyn after Ned's execution, or at least someone after Joanna.
LETS GO!
Noice as always guys!
Love the “hoity toity” british accent mate😂
“When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground” - Cersei Lannister
Well technically house lannister had won the war of the five kings in fact the only problem once taiwan had died the only person who is ruling king's landing is cersei and since jamie was not there in king's landing no one actually can challenge cersei but luckily uncle kevin is the only person who can deficiency cersei but Kevin had died so cersei is basically so ruler of the seven kingdoms and the cersei that made damn decisions for example making an enemy of house tyrant
Count Dooku: “I’ve been looking forward to this” 😁
Been looking forward to this
this whole entire Game of Thrones it feels like it’s nothing more than an king arthur fanfiction
I can totally see the Mannis or Zombie Jon Snow agreeing to marry a White Walker before entering into negotiations for Cersei's hand.
Welcome back! Was missing you lot, I hope everything is ok with you both xx
Tywin truly uses turion as his ring hand man and heir
28:18 I know what the background is obviously rains of Castamere but what version of it is this considering it doesn’t sound like the original is there a version on TH-cam
It's our own version buddy. Any music you hear in the back ground has been made in house by us!
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverse ah well the version sounds good
@Daniel22208 thanks Dan! We're looking into uploading them as stand alone pieces but we like to do this by the book and need to get the correct licensing before we do so.
this video is probably my fav cause it's an hour of praising the old lion hahaha
⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️Dude , they could had just keep Ned in to a prison and not tell his family about it , how could you not bring that up , at keast for a few months
...yhea because that would have hold up against scrutiny and would definitly remain secret.
Esspecialy if we consider they would then have to keep the death of Robert couver up to.
What if Tytos Lannister, Tywin's father, had been an effective lord of the Westerlands? A lot of the reason Tywin is such an SOB is because Tytos was a weak leader whose bannermen ran roughshod over him, and Tywin was determined to redeem the Lannister honor by ensuring that no one ever laughed at *him* or his family ever again.
Unfortunately, this led to him being a ruthless parent who left all his kids deeply damaged in various ways. If Tywin hadn't had such a huge chip on his shoulder, he probably would have been able to be a better father.
YES AT LAST WE HAVE IT!
I think Cersei is a much greater liability to Lannister success than Joffrey, as she is just competent enough to be dangerous to anyone she sees as a threat, which includes way too many Lannister confederates.
Joffrey on the other hand was a vicious idiot lacking the political acumen to secure the loyalty of anyone not expressly required to obey him, such as the king's guard, and would therefore have been much easier to neutralize without killing than Cersei.
Neutralizing Cersei early on would have done wonders for Lannister cohesion.
Tywin should have ordered Cersei back to Casterly rock as soon as he made Tyrion acting hand.
Without Cersei running interference, Tyrion could've kept Joffrey in line, and possibly even sorted out Varys and Littlefinger, both of whom played more active roles in Tyrion's downfall than Cersei.
Littlefinger by hiring the jousting midgets to instigate the altercation between Tyrion and Joffrey that implicated him in Joffrey's murder. Not to mention actually orchestrating Joffrey's murder.
And Varys by handing Shae over as a witness against Tyrion.
Tyrion might have seen them both coming if he hadn't been preoccupied fending off Cersei's more obvious opposition.
Now given the amount of people with good reasons to eliminate them Tywin and Joffrey would probably end up dead in any case. But with Cersei away from Kingslanding, Tyrion would likely end up the de facto leader of team Lannister.
As Tywin's legitimate son, not sworn to the King's Guard, and not branded as a kinslayer, Tyrion would inherit Casterly Rock and all its power.
While not as ruthless as Tywin, Tyrion is certainly more than clever and pragmatic enough to capitalize on Tywin's previous gains in order to consolidate Lannister power, without making too many new enemies.
In fact Tyrion's decency might prove an asset in the wake of Tywin's death, as Tyrion might be willing to make the necessary compromises to forge a truce with Stannis and Daenerys long enough to deal with the White Walkers.
And book Tyrion might be just ruthless enough to eliminate Stannis and Daenerys in the process of dealing with the Walkers. Book Tyrion is also one of the more knowledgeable individuals about dragons, knowledge which may include a means of neutralizing Daenerys dragons when the time comes.
I have a slight derivation of the response to Joffrey’s “tragic” demise. Speaking objectively, it was bad enough that the King was poisoned at his own wedding, but another Lannister being held responsible compounds the embarrassment. All Tywin has to do is tell Cersei to chill out for a moment and order the guards to stay their hands.
But you’re correct that this merely delays the inevitable. Varys will have Tywin removed from the board, sooner rather than later.
Who gets the regency in this situation, though? Does a triumvirate of Tyrion, Jaime, and Kevan forestall her taking control, with perhaps more than a hint of help from the Tyrells?
22:45 Just step on Tyrion. That's how you keep Tywin alive.
One potential issue: Ol’ Randy Tarley was a Targaryen loyalist in the baratheon uprising, there’s some chance he would side with Gryff but not very likely as he probably just sided with the targs because the Tyrells did
For step 2, what about Bronn? Ruthless, shown to be a strong leader of the gold cloaks, and loyal to whoever pays him the most, and you cant get a bigger payment than Storms End and all the stormlands. He would also likely remove decent in the Stormlands quietly. Plus the whole theme of him in the show seems to be how similar cut throat sell swords are to lords so, in the fiction, its probably a good choice.
@18:35 Kevan Lannister was my immediate thought. He's both a capable military commander and a good administrator, with a much defter touch than Tywin "fictional version of King Edward I Longshanks AKA the Hammer of the Scots" Lannister
I disagree and think honor on westeros is genuinely important it's like Parlay from pirates of the Caribbean movies. No one likes it but if you break Parlay you lose all rights to claim it
I think there are ways to safe Tywin.
As for Varys, Tywin should know him since Aerys II, so might distrust him already. And if Joffrey does get poisoned, and you don't accuse the Imp, the Eunuch will be your next choice. Especially if none of the women have a reason to kill the King. Looking at it from a distance, Jaime even realizes that Varys didn't warn anyone about the riots before Blackwater, despite allegedly knowing everything.
For Oberyn, Mace Tyrell already distrusts him, and is especially worried since Margaery could have died as well. So, if you hint at Mace that you suspect Oberyn, if only to play out Martells and Tyrells against each other, it could set some things in motion as well. It might of course not be enough, but worth a thought, I'd say.
And about Stannis.
I'd imagine, if Tywin learns about him being at the wall, he might send southron forces north. At that time, he still has the son of Lord Manderly as a hostage, and with the Vale back under the Iron Throne,the eastern coast should be secured for now, as well. So, the Manderlys might be cautious to betray the Boltons.
Tywin suggested to let the northmen and Ironborn fight each other for now, without sending troops, but the arrival of Stannis in the north might change his priorities.
The Faceless Men charge alot but they don't actively try to beggar their clients. They killed Balon for Euron in exchange for a dragon egg and his hulls stay laden with treasure. They're an option for the Lannisters.
@3:38 The hill tribes not knowing what that means: HALF-MEASURE HALF-MEASURE HALF-MEASURE HALF-MEASURE!!!
This is just I wanted finally an iceberg video 40 minutes plus with intricate details but what I need is how the Jedi could have beaten palpatine using all reference points like the plagueis audiobook ,darth maul audiobooks ,dooku audiobooks as well as clone wars and the prequels to give an accurate depiction of how they could do it I personally think that’s impossible because the republic was crumbling regardless of palpatine’s machinations and the fact the Jedi are not a autonomous entity they are subservient to the senate doesn’t allow them to do what is necessary to quell the threat because their mandate is dictated not by their own agenda so to me they were doomed from the beginning because palpatine planned for every contingency and was incredibly patient but I would like to hear your thoughts and to see a iceberg video on this topic
HEAR ME ROAR
We got here eventually
On top of this if Tywin survives Tyrion, Oberyn martell, and the spider, the Tyrells would hire an assassin for him next, and if Tywin survives that, he is still on Arias hit list, and if he survived that little finger enjoys causing chaos so he'd definitely try to kill him. The only way the lions can win post Tywin is for Cersei to die... Everyone hates Joffrey he can be barely controlled spare cercsei and everyone is screwed
I think Tywin will take advantage of the North and Jon's desperate need for help, and in addition to demanding Jon to bend the knee, he will force Jon to marry Myrcella, thus fulfilling the failed plan with Sansa and Tyrion.
Dorne and the North are the most problematic and difficult regions for the Lannisters to control. And after a failed attempt to pacify Dorne by marrying Trystane and Myrcella, Tywin will try to pacify the North by marrying Jon and Myrcella. It's hard to rebel if your bride is a sister of the king and carrying your child under her heart.
Just send Cercei to the Wall of always Wall.
Ser Balon Swann could be a better alternative than Randyll Tarly. He’s known to be loyal and Cersei even used his reputation of being honest as a blow against Tyrion during the trial. Most importantly he is a Kingsguard and a Stormlander.