this dude created thjs whole incident to make a controversial video for views. his videos werent even hitting 10 k views before this fake panerai video. its stupid to believe a well informed watch guy gets fooled so easily.
brother, I'm so sorry to hear this. Much like a relationship, buying watches is such an emotional choice. Logic rarely plays any part in it, but its this exact situation that reminds us all to make conscious choices, especially when others will try to take advantage of us, disrespect us either intentionally or inadvertently. Sounds like relationships, but i guess it's true. I hope you recovered from this bro, I know how much the heart would break when finding out something you were not expecting, and something that comes out of nowhere. Again, sounds like a relationship. Another great video, with great story telling and wonderful b roll brother. Love you man
this dude created this whole incident to make a controversial video for views. his videos werent even hitting 10 k views before this fake panerai video. its stupid to believe a well informed watch guy gets fooled so easily.
@@Sht855 No need to pay more than $100 for a wrist watch that will look good & keep good time. I view with suspicion any big brand name watch and it's wearer as being a fake.
@@dustyfarmer sorry, but that’s stupid! What difference does it make if someone wears a fake or not? There’s a ton of watches out there that look really nice, but can’t be afforded by a lot of people, so that’s why they buy fakes or homages because they love the design, but that doesn’t make them a fake person. Of course if it’s a fucking annoying poser with a small dick and a massive inferiority complex the watch is most likely fake, but the watch doesn’t make a difference when it comes to his personality. Having said that, I’ve made nothing but bad experiences with fakes. They usually all fall apart after a few months or they get so banged up that you can’t wear them anymore. But there’s enough genuine watches out there for 100 to 300 bucks that are quite nice and will do the trick just nicely! And over time depending on how much money you spend on your fakes and how long they’ll last you’ll be better of buying something genuine, at least that was the case in my case. I bought some fakes in Thailand while I was living there for around 30 bucks a piece. One by one they all died after a couple of months. After 2 years of that I bought a Seiko SKX 007 for 175 bucks back in 2009 and it’s been my daily beater ever since, still running perfectly and it looks almost like new. I’ve replaced the bezel insert with a ceramic one and I’ve switched to a sapphire crystal about a year ago. The hardlex crystal it came with had two small scratches that were also still invisible and I’ve put that watch through hell. Best investment ever in terms of bang for the buck.
@@dustyfarmer not always for the materials used on some watches like 904 steel or 316 steel plus superluminova and sapphire cristal they actually use roughly about $400-700 worth of materials. So thats submariner costs around that to make. Again most of Rolex cost is advertising. But I think Grand Seiko is a much better brand than Rolex in Quality. Also you cannot fake a Grand Seiko Automatic Movement. A good fake rolex is around $500 and its extremely hard to tell unless you open it up.
i bought this fake panerai for $3600.. i even took the watch to a watch maker/repairer to make sure i am not buying fake watch.. my watch repair guy told me its not a fake watch. ive been wearing this fake watch for about 5month and stopped working. i took the watch to a repair shop and they told me its a fake watch..... some watch repair shop is telling me its real and some other repair shop is telling me its a fake.. now i dont even know my watch is a fake or real..
I've been collecting for a long time I me . Decades . I was fortunate to have started in this journey before there were "super clones " flooding the market so had already learned a lot and over many years , had developed a kind of system , or a set of rules for myself that so far , hasn't let me down . I also have lived long enough to know that there's a first time for everything so I try to be very , very careful when I'm dealing with someone that I don't know . Thanx so much for sharing your experience and paying that forward to the rest of out community. That's huge , and I'm grateful for it .
Great vid Max, I'm really glad you've taken it on the chin and not gotten disillusioned plus got some compensation from the seller. I have heard in the past of people getting fake Panerai's serviced by Panerai because they are so easy to clone although after your watch guy took that fake apart so easily it's probably one of those many apocryphal watch tales. They make the best dials in the world and I am thinking of having wrist implants so I can wear that Specchio Blu, that watch is obscenely beautiful.
Morgan, always making me Google words 😆. That blue dial is memorizing! Yes, gotta just roll with the punches right? Not every step has to be forward, sometimes we shuffle a bit
Panerai used ETA movements which are quite common, and as the patents expired many years ago they are carbon copied in China by several companies. This means when a watchmaker opens a Panerai he sees what s/he expects to see - an ETA looking movement. Pretty well the only differentiator between the real thing and a fake is the dial, and if the profit is in thousands, then the faker can spend a lot of money getting it right.
Hi. This is probably the 1st vid i saw a fellow watchnut bought a fake/replica. I really feel for you. I totally respect your honesty and willingness to share the experience to forewarn other people.
Serious bummer, sorry to hear this for you, but it's a great warning to the community. A recent visit to my local watch place, they were telling me all about "super fakes" - that could fool even seasoned watch repair folks. Ugh!
I love my Panerai, it was the first proper big boy watch I went for after so much thinking....I still love it but if I bought the Rolex submariner or GMT which at the time were in the same price bracket they would be worth 3 times the price paid by now, instead my Panerai lost 20%. Only reason why I am sharing this is because I think that if you like them you should get them, they are great enjoyable watches, but get a used one! Should you buy a fake? Not worth it, you will always know it’s a fake and that would bother me.
Dang, sorry you went through this. That’s unfortunately why I haven’t bought a used watch yet. I really have wanted to but the used market scares me, even if they are genuine. Have they been serviced? Why are they selling it? Is it damaged? I also have huge wrists so the vintage watches and obtainability of links to bracelets keeps me away too. I hope it wasn’t too big of a financial bummer.
Its really one of the reasons i only buy from a dealer. With box and papers. Also a lot of the cheaper 3 day eta based panerai are quite easy to copy in regards to movement on show via caseback and operation. The 8 or 10 day complications with accurate power reserve are impossible to copy properly as their in house movements are so complex. Good video sorry you got burned but don't let it put you off just take more precautions next time. Your dialogue was very good and you put some effort into it. Best from Ireland .
Great video and very informative! Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I’m really surprised that the seller actually gave you any sort of a refund because most of these scam artist disappear after they get the money and the transaction is over. The fact that the seller even replied to your request for a refund after you told him that he sold a fake surprises me. What did you say or how did manage to get him/her to do that? Did you threaten with a lawsuit or sending over a few thugs to “say hello”? And what ever happened to the watch? Do you still have and wear it?
Exactly! I feel lucky he was willing to work with me. Though he did drag it out over days... I did end up having to resort to threats before he refunded me most of the money. The watch is in a drawer somewhere, doesn't feel right wearing a fake for me.
Really glad it all worked out for you in the end and you didn’t spend thousands of dollars on a replica, even if it was a pretty good one. This is a perfect example that good things happen to good people. It’s great that you produced this video to share your experience. Hopefully it helps and prevents others from getting scammed. You’re one of the lucky ones!
The seller should have given you a full refund. Not partial. He knowingly sold you a fake. That’s why he took your first low ball offer. And that’s why he agreed to giving you a partial refund 6 months later. It’s a crime to sell a fake watch and he knows it. That’s why you always use PayPal. They will always take your side.
I have 5 FAKE pan... all in good working condition ..latest is a white ceramic pan with power reserve.. only $98.00.... very happy...compliments from bars, supermarkets, cinemas... farmers' mkts...lol
Hei Max, I'm sorry to hear about the fake but I like what you are doing, don't stop 😉 Maybe a video on the top best vintage Tissot next? It’s a great brand that watch channels kind of overlook.
If I'm buying a high-end watch I go to the fake watch forums. I was buying an IWC big pilot and the info I received from these guys taught me what to look for on the fakes.
Hi There's an old adage that says "If it's too good to be true it usually is" I have owned a number of Panerai's over the last twenty years, they started with other peoples movements and then made their own in house calibres. What hasn't changed
Good for you man! Whenever I am thinking of buying an expensive watch I buy a relatively cheap fake built to spec and wear it for at least a month. I’m terrified of buying something like a a Panerai and hating it! Some of them are great!
The high end Panerai replica looks even better than the real one. It is so real that the AD won’t even buy back the second hand watch anymore in my area.
Thanks for sharing. I newly discovered your channel and I love it. Keep up the good work man and I'm sure this channel is going places! Regards from Sweden
@Jerry Rice we get it you are gay. Thats fine. I just dont want to be like a dad who was killed because his Rolex he didnt want to give up. All for £11,000.00 watch. And its happening more and more. And will continue to happen.
Nice movie bro. I agree with most comments, you made somethings nice out of something bad. So afterall the experience enriched you. Next time only buy a watch if you have all proper documents with it. Anyone who buys a high quality watch will keep those documents as safe as the watch itself anyway so there's no story to tell "hey I lost the documents". This is the key for knowing something is wrong here. Good luck on your watch journey anyway. Greetings from Kuala Lumpur.
Hey Max happy to hear you got a partial refund. In your shoes, I would have been happy to get anything back as I would have expected the seller to have vanished after closing the transaction. Did he take the watch back too?
partial refund???? that is messed up!!!! i feel bad for you and everyone else that has been duped, do you think the paperwork should of been included? do you think avoid getting scam and just go to the main watch retailer instead?
I think that this is a chinese UNITAS (lepine) 'panerised'. I bought some months ago a 'MARINA MILITARE' chinese (lepine as well, but I presume not in this case UNITAS, automatic, power reserve, date) and the results obtained are optimal.
I once bought a Tag Heuer Grand Carrera Caliber 36. I can visually tell if a watch is real or fake by looking at the movement through the sapphire case back. The watch I bought was indeed authentic. BUT when I got home I realize there was no serial number on the case back compared to stock photos online. I called the seller back. He mentioned the watch case has been replaced by authorized Tag dealer, the previous one was damaged. Tag replacement cases do not come with serial numbers they come blank. I really wanted to keep the watch, but Tag Heuer would not service the watch without serial numbers. Luckily the seller agreed to give me my money back. The watch was real just not serviceable. My take away from this experience, when buying a watch from a 3rd party, its best to meet them at an authorized dealer to get the watch checked out by a professional for authenticity. Especially for Rolex and other top brands. It will save you the headache later.
Just recently discovered your channel and am enjoying it. FYI, during WW II the Italian Navy had undersea commandos, like many other countries, but the term "frogmen is generic" and can be used for pretty much any nation's scuba-equipped troops. The famed Italian version was called the Decima MAS (Decima Mezzi d’Assalto or 10th Assault Flotilla) and was notoriously effective.
Useful video. Just a little correction: there was not a Royal Italian Navy. It was the Italian Navy. When the former set of territories in the peninsular territory became Italy, it became a Republic, not a Monarchy.
Glad it worked out-ish in the end. But don't let the movement be the only tell... Some Panerai movements are notoriously undecorated and look like crap, but the brand charges a premium. Plus, just a side note... while companies like Patek and JLC decorate both sides of every plate and gear, panerai only decorates the parts of the movements visible thru the display back, and typically solid casebooks are very undecorated or the very minimum. Great brand but as you say, buy the seller, not the watch.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial no, they still don't decorate movement parts that aren't visible thru the casebook. Also they recently launched a very expensive model claiming it has an in-house movement when you can clearly see it's NOT in-house. They're losing credibility with nonsense like this.
I bought a cheap Panerai (well it was $200)...but I knew it was a fake....I was in Las Vegas and had the chance to look at a genuine identical model in one store and I know that I couldn't tell the difference just from appearance. Since then, although it still works timewise, it's a chronograph that never had any of the small dials working properly so I opened up the back and Wow, it sure wasn't even close like yours was....mine was a much smaller movement made to fit in the large case with a plastic frame. I didn't try to mess with it too much to try and fix the chronograph functioning even though the levers seemed to make connections within the mechanism. I just closed it up again and am glad that the watch/date works and I can live with that since I know what I paid and it looks so close to a real one on the outside at least.
I’ve watched a couple vids about fake PAMs and another thing I noticed is the way the cam on the crown release lever is executed. That little “dot” in the crown guard doesn’t seem as flush and clean as the real ones.
Interesting story. You’ve just strengthened my belief in only buying from authorized dealers. I’ll never purchase used or from the gray market. Happy to hear that you did get a portion of your money back.
@@nikkimiddlekillsday5161 if that’s what you’re ok with. I prefer the real thing. In my humble opinion why wear a fake of replica. You can fool other people but you can’t fool yourself.
@@bertrammccray8847 I do somewhat agree with what you're saying, but if I can get a "fake" that's just as well made with a movement as good and dial and casing that's beautifully done I could live with that especially since I'm an average guy that works in repairs and NOT a guy that has money lol
@@bertrammccray8847 I've been collecting watches since I was a kid, my uncle and father are jewelers and another uncle is a watch maker. So when I buy a watch I want a good quality movement and a case and dial that I enjoy, names aren't too much of a concern for me
I bought a fake 0111 from a friend who had put it together from parts sourced from a low cost outlet. It looks very nice on it`s shark tooth bracelet, and keeps wonderful time with the ST 3600 movement, right at +10 seconds per week. He said the movement was dry, so he had his watch guy oil and regulate it. He just wore it for a few months, and offered to me for $150, so now it`s mine to stay.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial They were a great shop, and I'm sure he'll be enjoying his retirement. I've never used Nesbits before, but they impressed me in the video with their knowledge.
Good vid thanks for this! I have my first Panerai coming in this week, a Base Logo PAM773 44mm. As you say I "bought the seller" and have no qualms, he even said he'll take it back if I don't like it (my wrist is 6.75" so I have my doubts but Panerai can fit better than the oversize specs suggest, time will tell). Cheers
I’m an amateur watch collector, one thing I learned through the years is there are so many high quality replica out there, some even have genuine parts. It’s very difficult to tell if the piece is authentic or not just by pictures (I’m talking about the high quality rep, not the crappy ones), that’s why I rather pay a little more at a reputable dealers.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial yea man, I was very intrigued of how “good” those replica are couple of years ago, I did a deep dive researching those what they called the super clones. There are watch enthusiasts who takes a super clone (mostly Rolex), and put authentic dial, hands, and etc on them, and I think they called it the Frankenstein. The details on those Frankenstein are almost flawless, a regular person most likely can’t tell if they are clones or authentic, and for professionals, they probably would have to open the casing to verify authenticity.
It was a negotiation with the seller because he suggested I take some responsibility for not doing better research. He's not completely wrong... I got the majority of the money back
@@WatchCrunchOfficial What?! He sold the watch as genuine! Of course you should’ve taken it immediately to get it verified as real, but he was the one who sold you a fake, therefore he should’ve refunded you completely! I would’ve been at the cops to press charges so quickly! What an asshole!
I don't believe this. Unless I missed something, there is no way you bought a Panarai with no box, no paper, no authentic guarantee, no feedback, or no escrow. You are not that...forget it. Or are you?
The price difference between the genuine and replica is 20 to 30 times, yet the fact that the replicas are made to be almost indistinguishable from the genuine ones is quite impressive.
The funny thing is if you look up panerai Brooklyn bridge limited edition is that they took a unmodified of the shelf ETA movement and put it in the watches. The movement didn’t as much say Panerai on it. So yeh panerai have made fakes of their own watches lol
@@WatchCrunchOfficial Franken watches in my eyes are a bigger problem due to all the auction drama with frankens recently, it's never been a more dangerous time to be a watch collector
Yesterday I went inside some small antiques shop and they were selling a Panerai like that one, looked beautiful. They guy at the store told me that I can check out for the code on the back of the watch to see if it´s original. He was asking $1200 which is pretty cheap.....so it makes me think it´s not real..
I’ve allllllways wanted this watch, I totally cannot afford a real one. I liked the design and luminor marina before I knew what status Panerai had…if you don’t want this fake, can I buy it?
I'm sorry this happened to you. Hopefully this experience hasn't soured you on the brand. To me the clasp was a dead giveaway. There are dedicated forums out there where members can help you spot a fake by pics. It's not a guarantee but in this case, I'm almost sure someone would've noted the clasp if they saw it. And as you said, buy the seller, not the watch. There are also trusted sellers on the Rolex forums which is where I got both of mine.
Yes I just admit I didn't know much about panerai at the time and thought this was my gateway drug, lesson learned. I'm still intrigued and hope to play with more in the future. 👍
hey man, i've been searching about panerai since many said mine is fake and some gave a link to compare between the authentic and fake, but as i was researching, mine looks like has the same as the original & fake which was the biggest flaw they said bcs mine doesn't has a plate.
So, he gave you a partial refund? Did you get to keep the fake or did you return it because if he kept the watch AND half your money, then you just gave him £1500 for nothing!
Hmmmmmmm to determine that the watch is fake you need to have a real one to compare it to and also and you need a jeweler with a strong magnification glass and he needs to carefully study at the watch with his face 6 inches away from it. If you would have kept the watch you would have gone your whole life never bothered by the thought that it wasn't an official Panerai.
Panerai is very strange, although I do like them. They do nothing to prevent copies -- like Rolex does with its various laser-engraved details. I have a Panerai PAM177 (44mm brushed titanium Luminor Marina style, w/sandwich dial & transparent back). I got concerned about traveling with it, so I purchased a $350 fake that I now take on trips. Got an OEM Panerai strap for it. It's very very hard to discern the difference between the real and the fake even when they are right next to each other, at least until you turn it over ... the movements are a little different. Surprisingly, they're both about equally accurate and the lume is pretty much identical. I don't believe the fake is all that water resistant; I've had no problem taking it in the shower or doing some mild snorkeling but I realize that's probably not a good idea. At any rate, the replicas are very very very close to the real thing, and Panerai doesn't build in any "Easter eggs" making it harder to copy, other than the movement itself. Even the movement doesn't look _all_ that different; if the watches aren't side by side, most people wouldn't be able to tell..
I collect Soviet watches and I have always wanted a 1940s kirova type 1. I found one on ebay from a seller who had 97% positive feedback and thousands of sales it was 114 dollars so I bought it he said that it had been serviced but it was 10 minutes fast per hour and the crown was broken it cost me 225 dollars to fix
You took a bad situation and made a video to show the entire world how irresponsible and foolish you were to believe someone "on a forum". Well done and thank you.
Aaaaand that's exactly why I don't buy expensive watches, because I just can't tell the difference. I'm just not the type who notices miniscule details. And if I can't see the difference, what's they point paying for it? I did buy a couple of expensive watches in the past because I expected.... I don't even know what it was that I expected to be honest, but when the watch arrived it just wasn't there.
How can anyone blame you, many Panerai models have been on the NWBG (not worth of buying gen) list of replicas watches for a long time as only very minor details give away their non authenticity. The only person to blame is the one that originally got it for 400$ and scammed someone else for 4000$
If you want to buy a watch that’s pre-loved, try Crown and Calibre. I’ve never had a bad experience with them. Take a look at their website. Talk with one of their customer service reps. My last purchase from them was an Omega Speedmaster automatic. There wasn’t a mark, or scuff, anywhere on that watch. Plus, it’s one of the most accurate watches I’ve ever owned. I was amazed. I have no vested interest in the company, and I’m sure you’ll be pleased with them. By the way, I once purchased a Rolex replica (fake) from a “friend”. Needless to say, I got a refund.
I got a tourbillon Panerai 1950 8days GTM I thought it was a fake because I didn’t see others on sale but I just barley find out that mines is only 1 of 100 pieces!!!!
I had to negotiate with the seller because he suggested I take some responsibility for not doing better research. He's not completely wrong... I got the majority of the money back though.
You can’t fault a guy who owns up to having bought a fake and making the best of a bad situation. Your sincerity makes you stand out.
Thank you for the thoughtful message Earle 👍
this dude created thjs whole incident to make a controversial video for views. his videos werent even hitting 10 k views before this fake panerai video.
its stupid to believe a well informed watch guy gets fooled so easily.
brother, I'm so sorry to hear this. Much like a relationship, buying watches is such an emotional choice. Logic rarely plays any part in it, but its this exact situation that reminds us all to make conscious choices, especially when others will try to take advantage of us, disrespect us either intentionally or inadvertently. Sounds like relationships, but i guess it's true. I hope you recovered from this bro, I know how much the heart would break when finding out something you were not expecting, and something that comes out of nowhere. Again, sounds like a relationship. Another great video, with great story telling and wonderful b roll brother. Love you man
Great analogy! Too often the initial excitement gives way to disappoint as reality sets in. Reality is a B 😉
You took a bad situation and made it a positive educational experience for us all. Well done and thank you.
Thanks for the comment! It was a bitter pill to swallow, but all is well at the end 👍
this dude created this whole incident to make a controversial video for views. his videos werent even hitting 10 k views before this fake panerai video.
its stupid to believe a well informed watch guy gets fooled so easily.
I only buy fake watches...That way I know what I'm getting.
Smart man right here. And if you get a gen its a win.
@@Sht855 No need to pay more than $100 for a wrist watch that will look good & keep good time. I view with suspicion any big brand name watch and it's wearer as being a fake.
@@dustyfarmer they are all fake.
@@dustyfarmer sorry, but that’s stupid! What difference does it make if someone wears a fake or not? There’s a ton of watches out there that look really nice, but can’t be afforded by a lot of people, so that’s why they buy fakes or homages because they love the design, but that doesn’t make them a fake person. Of course if it’s a fucking annoying poser with a small dick and a massive inferiority complex the watch is most likely fake, but the watch doesn’t make a difference when it comes to his personality.
Having said that, I’ve made nothing but bad experiences with fakes. They usually all fall apart after a few months or they get so banged up that you can’t wear them anymore. But there’s enough genuine watches out there for 100 to 300 bucks that are quite nice and will do the trick just nicely! And over time depending on how much money you spend on your fakes and how long they’ll last you’ll be better of buying something genuine, at least that was the case in my case. I bought some fakes in Thailand while I was living there for around 30 bucks a piece. One by one they all died after a couple of months. After 2 years of that I bought a Seiko SKX 007 for 175 bucks back in 2009 and it’s been my daily beater ever since, still running perfectly and it looks almost like new. I’ve replaced the bezel insert with a ceramic one and I’ve switched to a sapphire crystal about a year ago. The hardlex crystal it came with had two small scratches that were also still invisible and I’ve put that watch through hell. Best investment ever in terms of bang for the buck.
@@dustyfarmer not always for the materials used on some watches like 904 steel or 316 steel plus superluminova and sapphire cristal they actually use roughly about $400-700 worth of materials. So thats submariner costs around that to make. Again most of Rolex cost is advertising. But I think Grand Seiko is a much better brand than Rolex in Quality. Also you cannot fake a Grand Seiko Automatic Movement. A good fake rolex is around $500 and its extremely hard to tell unless you open it up.
i bought this fake panerai for $3600.. i even took the watch to a watch maker/repairer to make sure i am not buying fake watch..
my watch repair guy told me its not a fake watch. ive been wearing this fake watch for about 5month and stopped working.
i took the watch to a repair shop and they told me its a fake watch..... some watch repair shop is telling me its real and some other repair shop is telling me its a fake..
now i dont even know my watch is a fake or real..
I've been collecting for a long time I me . Decades . I was fortunate to have started in this journey before there were "super clones " flooding the market so had already learned a lot and over many years , had developed a kind of system , or a set of rules for myself that so far , hasn't let me down . I also have lived long enough to know that there's a first time for everything so I try to be very , very careful when I'm dealing with someone that I don't know . Thanx so much for sharing your experience and paying that forward to the rest of out community. That's huge , and I'm grateful for it .
You're welcome Tim, I need to nail your list of watch buying rules to my wall 😁
I never like to hear of these incidents but am glad you recovered at least half. Great channel and much better karma going forward.
Great vid Max, I'm really glad you've taken it on the chin and not gotten disillusioned plus got some compensation from the seller. I have heard in the past of people getting fake Panerai's serviced by Panerai because they are so easy to clone although after your watch guy took that fake apart so easily it's probably one of those many apocryphal watch tales. They make the best dials in the world and I am thinking of having wrist implants so I can wear that Specchio Blu, that watch is obscenely beautiful.
Morgan, always making me Google words 😆. That blue dial is memorizing! Yes, gotta just roll with the punches right? Not every step has to be forward, sometimes we shuffle a bit
@@WatchCrunchOfficial 😂 Great attitude Max
Panerai used ETA movements which are quite common, and as the patents expired many years ago they are carbon copied in China by several companies.
This means when a watchmaker opens a Panerai he sees what s/he expects to see - an ETA looking movement.
Pretty well the only differentiator between the real thing and a fake is the dial, and if the profit is in thousands, then the faker can spend a lot of money getting it right.
Owning a real version of that watch from Rome in early 2000....that replica looks pretty real at first glance...dang these guys are getting good.
Yeah, not even a little. The Marina has a sandwich dial and this one does not.
Says a lot about Panerai, they were never that popular and suddenly tonsif fakes turned up...tells us they are easy to copy.
@@dagnutPanerai was never popular? Wrong. Panerai was a watch for REAL collectors.
Hi. This is probably the 1st vid i saw a fellow watchnut bought a fake/replica. I really feel for you. I totally respect your honesty and willingness to share the experience to forewarn other people.
Thanks! It was definitely lesson learned so I wanted to pass it on and hopefully save someone the heartache 😊
Serious bummer, sorry to hear this for you, but it's a great warning to the community. A recent visit to my local watch place, they were telling me all about "super fakes" - that could fool even seasoned watch repair folks. Ugh!
Yeah Brian it's scary out there! Buy the seller 👍
I love my Panerai, it was the first proper big boy watch I went for after so much thinking....I still love it but if I bought the Rolex submariner or GMT which at the time were in the same price bracket they would be worth 3 times the price paid by now, instead my Panerai lost 20%. Only reason why I am sharing this is because I think that if you like them you should get them, they are great enjoyable watches, but get a used one! Should you buy a fake? Not worth it, you will always know it’s a fake and that would bother me.
Yeah, Rolexes are great investments, but hey, if you don't sell your Panerai, then you haven't lost the money right ;)
Dang, sorry you went through this. That’s unfortunately why I haven’t bought a used watch yet. I really have wanted to but the used market scares me, even if they are genuine. Have they been serviced? Why are they selling it? Is it damaged? I also have huge wrists so the vintage watches and obtainability of links to bracelets keeps me away too. I hope it wasn’t too big of a financial bummer.
I would never buy from a private seller. They might not even be aware themselves they have a fake.
I suspect this guy was in that exact situation.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial or he did find out and wanted to get rid of it
Exactly
Its really one of the reasons i only buy from a dealer. With box and papers. Also a lot of the cheaper 3 day eta based panerai are quite easy to copy in regards to movement on show via caseback and operation. The 8 or 10 day complications with accurate power reserve are impossible to copy properly as their in house movements are so complex. Good video sorry you got burned but don't let it put you off just take more precautions next time. Your dialogue was very good and you put some effort into it. Best from Ireland .
Thanks for the feedback! Yes definitely learned my lesson on this one
Great video and very informative! Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
I’m really surprised that the seller actually gave you any sort of a refund because most of these scam artist disappear after they get the money and the transaction is over. The fact that the seller even replied to your request for a refund after you told him that he sold a fake surprises me. What did you say or how did manage to get him/her to do that? Did you threaten with a lawsuit or sending over a few thugs to “say hello”? And what ever happened to the watch? Do you still have and wear it?
Exactly! I feel lucky he was willing to work with me. Though he did drag it out over days... I did end up having to resort to threats before he refunded me most of the money. The watch is in a drawer somewhere, doesn't feel right wearing a fake for me.
Really glad it all worked out for you in the end and you didn’t spend thousands of dollars on a replica, even if it was a pretty good one. This is a perfect example that good things happen to good people. It’s great that you produced this video to share your experience. Hopefully it helps and prevents others from getting scammed. You’re one of the lucky ones!
The seller should have given you a full refund. Not partial. He knowingly sold you a fake. That’s why he took your first low ball offer. And that’s why he agreed to giving you a partial refund 6 months later. It’s a crime to sell a fake watch and he knows it. That’s why you always use PayPal. They will always take your side.
Your videos are very well produced!!! Greetings from Switzerland 🇨🇭.. new subscriber David
Thank you David, and welcome to the channel 🙌
Thanks for sharing. This highlights the fact that all of us can make a decision from the heart, rather the head and the heart.
That's always the struggle isn't it!
partial refund? it called paypal...
Thank you for sharing, im getting a Pam88 next week. Been saving up for 2 years for this.
I have 5 FAKE pan... all in good working condition ..latest is a white ceramic pan with power reserve.. only $98.00.... very happy...compliments from bars, supermarkets, cinemas... farmers' mkts...lol
HAHA thats sick dude. i just ordered my first rep. will be here in a week. im stoked.
Where would one find these online? I just purchased one in Dubai
@@JTDoubleO8How much did it cost you?
The honesty earned you a sub!
Haha, pouring my heart out 😅. Welcome to the channel
Max - sorry you had to go thru this, but thanks for sharing a lesson with us!
Thanks ED, I learned the hard way, hoping others don't go through the same pain 😁
Hei Max, I'm sorry to hear about the fake but I like what you are doing, don't stop 😉 Maybe a video on the top best vintage Tissot next? It’s a great brand that watch channels kind of overlook.
Thanks Razvãn! Can't stop won't stop. That's a great idea 👍. My first mechanical watch was a visodate
Great reveiw , the honesty in your ordeal will help many folks from getting to hasty , sorry about it happening to you. Thanx.P.S.Tx.
Thanks Pete, hope people can learn vicariously through my mistake
People knew that radium was radioactive but they did not know about the dangers of radioactivity
If I'm buying a high-end watch I go to the fake watch forums. I was buying an IWC big pilot and the info I received from these guys taught me what to look for on the fakes.
Great idea Gavin, go into the lion's den ;)
Nesbits.. in Seattle? Those guys are great!
Hi
There's an old adage that says "If it's too good to be true it usually is"
I have owned a number of Panerai's over the last twenty years, they started with other peoples movements and then made their own in house calibres. What hasn't changed
Good for you man! Whenever I am thinking of buying an expensive watch I buy a relatively cheap fake built to spec and wear it for at least a month. I’m terrified of buying something like a a Panerai and hating it! Some of them are great!
The high end Panerai replica looks even better than the real one. It is so real that the AD won’t even buy back the second hand watch anymore in my area.
Scary stuff. I learned the hard way
This video essentially has no subject. You just throw out 3k and you are cool. This is called something else man
Sorry this happened to you.
Thanks for sharing it with your watch family.
Hey man first vid I've seen of yours and you're good lol keep it up 💪
Thanks dude! Appreciate it, more good stuff coming
Thanks for sharing. I newly discovered your channel and I love it. Keep up the good work man and I'm sure this channel is going places! Regards from Sweden
Thanks Petter! Welcome to the channel 👍
After watching this, I have learned to save 4k and buy a fake for 139.00...
Id buy one lol just don't know where
A good one is about $250 range to $350
@Jerry Rice we get it you are gay. Thats fine. I just dont want to be like a dad who was killed because his Rolex he didnt want to give up. All for £11,000.00 watch. And its happening more and more. And will continue to happen.
Incredible story and video Max. You need more subs for sure! Hope we can have you on our podcast at some point!
Miguel
Thanks Miguel! Keep up the good work down in Socal!
@@WatchCrunchOfficial Thank you brother!
You bought it on Chrono24 and got a fake? I thought they had escrow and authenticity guarantee?
No, I only used chrono 24 to compare prices. It was from the forums
@@WatchCrunchOfficial oh that makes sense. Thanks!
Hey Max, how safe is a 2nd hand vendor like Chrono24 with regards to ensuring you aren’t getting a dud?
hey so when you bought it, did it come with the full box and papers?
Negative, came in a shitty box 👎
@@WatchCrunchOfficial thank you. so sorry man I hope the guy lose all his money if he did it intentionally
Nice movie bro. I agree with most comments, you made somethings nice out of something bad. So afterall the experience enriched you. Next time only buy a watch if you have all proper documents with it. Anyone who buys a high quality watch will keep those documents as safe as the watch itself anyway so there's no story to tell "hey I lost the documents". This is the key for knowing something is wrong here. Good luck on your watch journey anyway. Greetings from Kuala Lumpur.
Hey Max happy to hear you got a partial refund. In your shoes, I would have been happy to get anything back as I would have expected the seller to have vanished after closing the transaction. Did he take the watch back too?
Yes, definitely lucked out. Seems that he was duped himself. I kept the watch, so I can make this video
partial refund???? that is messed up!!!! i feel bad for you and everyone else that has been duped, do you think the paperwork should of been included? do you think avoid getting scam and just go to the main watch retailer instead?
Did you buy it on Chrono?
I think that this is a chinese UNITAS (lepine) 'panerised'.
I bought some months ago a 'MARINA MILITARE' chinese (lepine as well, but I presume not in this case UNITAS, automatic, power reserve, date) and the results obtained are optimal.
Good info. Thanks!
I once bought a Tag Heuer Grand Carrera Caliber 36. I can visually tell if a watch is real or fake by looking at the movement through the sapphire case back. The watch I bought was indeed authentic. BUT when I got home I realize there was no serial number on the case back compared to stock photos online. I called the seller back. He mentioned the watch case has been replaced by authorized Tag dealer, the previous one was damaged. Tag replacement cases do not come with serial numbers they come blank. I really wanted to keep the watch, but Tag Heuer would not service the watch without serial numbers. Luckily the seller agreed to give me my money back. The watch was real just not serviceable. My take away from this experience, when buying a watch from a 3rd party, its best to meet them at an authorized dealer to get the watch checked out by a professional for authenticity. Especially for Rolex and other top brands. It will save you the headache later.
Interesting. So many nuiances with these high end pieces. Good recommendation to meet at the AD if the watch is local! Thanks
Is there a panerai with a see through back…would be cool to see the movement undermeath
Panerai is a tought watch to buy without papers or not from a reputable dealer. Did you get most of your money back?,
I did manange to get most of my money back after a long conversation with the seller.
Just recently discovered your channel and am enjoying it. FYI, during WW II the Italian Navy had undersea commandos, like many other countries, but the term "frogmen is generic" and can be used for pretty much any nation's scuba-equipped troops. The famed Italian version was called the Decima MAS (Decima Mezzi d’Assalto or 10th Assault Flotilla) and was notoriously effective.
Hi max, just wondering how you sell your watches
Mostly on Reddit watchexchange 👍
@@WatchCrunchOfficial thanks!
Useful video. Just a little correction: there was not a Royal Italian Navy. It was the Italian Navy.
When the former set of territories in the peninsular territory became Italy, it became a Republic, not a Monarchy.
When you need to service or repair, how are you doing ?
Glad it worked out-ish in the end. But don't let the movement be the only tell... Some Panerai movements are notoriously undecorated and look like crap, but the brand charges a premium. Plus, just a side note... while companies like Patek and JLC decorate both sides of every plate and gear, panerai only decorates the parts of the movements visible thru the display back, and typically solid casebooks are very undecorated or the very minimum. Great brand but as you say, buy the seller, not the watch.
Right, panerai really didn't empathize their movements until recently 👍
@@WatchCrunchOfficial no, they still don't decorate movement parts that aren't visible thru the casebook. Also they recently launched a very expensive model claiming it has an in-house movement when you can clearly see it's NOT in-house. They're losing credibility with nonsense like this.
It was the wrong regulator system 🤷♂️
I bought a cheap Panerai (well it was $200)...but I knew it was a fake....I was in Las Vegas and had the chance to look at a genuine identical model in one store and I know that I couldn't tell the difference just from appearance. Since then, although it still works timewise, it's a chronograph that never had any of the small dials working properly so I opened up the back and Wow, it sure wasn't even close like yours was....mine was a much smaller movement made to fit in the large case with a plastic frame. I didn't try to mess with it too much to try and fix the chronograph functioning even though the levers seemed to make connections within the mechanism. I just closed it up again and am glad that the watch/date works and I can live with that since I know what I paid and it looks so close to a real one on the outside at least.
To each their own. I personally would hate the thought of supporting counterfeiters.
“I tried to sell a fake Panerai and I told everyone this story the moment I got caught”
Just kidding, great video 😃👌🏾🇳🇱
Haha, you had me for a sec 😮
I’ve watched a couple vids about fake PAMs and another thing I noticed is the way the cam on the crown release lever is executed. That little “dot” in the crown guard doesn’t seem as flush and clean as the real ones.
I think you are right Mike, that mechanism must be hard to duplicate. The real one closes with much more confidence
Interesting story. You’ve just strengthened my belief in only buying from authorized dealers. I’ll never purchase used or from the gray market. Happy to hear that you did get a portion of your money back.
Yeah I was lucky, the price I paid for education😅
There ARE some pretty well made and high end movement fakes, if it serves you well then that's what matters
@@nikkimiddlekillsday5161 if that’s what you’re ok with. I prefer the real thing. In my humble opinion why wear a fake of replica. You can fool other people but you can’t fool yourself.
@@bertrammccray8847 I do somewhat agree with what you're saying, but if I can get a "fake" that's just as well made with a movement as good and dial and casing that's beautifully done I could live with that especially since I'm an average guy that works in repairs and NOT a guy that has money lol
@@bertrammccray8847 I've been collecting watches since I was a kid, my uncle and father are jewelers and another uncle is a watch maker. So when I buy a watch I want a good quality movement and a case and dial that I enjoy, names aren't too much of a concern for me
I bought a fake 0111 from a friend who had put it together from parts sourced from a low cost outlet. It looks very nice on it`s shark tooth bracelet, and keeps wonderful time with the ST 3600 movement, right at +10 seconds per week. He said the movement was dry, so he had his watch guy oil and regulate it. He just wore it for a few months, and offered to me for $150, so now it`s mine to stay.
Is Bill at Roanoke still retired? I haven't seen them since pre-pandemic.
I think he's done, the shop closed unfortunate
@@WatchCrunchOfficial They were a great shop, and I'm sure he'll be enjoying his retirement. I've never used Nesbits before, but they impressed me in the video with their knowledge.
Good vid thanks for this! I have my first Panerai coming in this week, a Base Logo PAM773 44mm. As you say I "bought the seller" and have no qualms, he even said he'll take it back if I don't like it (my wrist is 6.75" so I have my doubts but Panerai can fit better than the oversize specs suggest, time will tell). Cheers
Congrats Andrew! I think you'll be surprised how well it fits!
Why did you get a partial and not a full refund ?
I’m an amateur watch collector, one thing I learned through the years is there are so many high quality replica out there, some even have genuine parts. It’s very difficult to tell if the piece is authentic or not just by pictures (I’m talking about the high quality rep, not the crappy ones), that’s why I rather pay a little more at a reputable dealers.
Yes good call, at that stage, I had no idea the replicas were so damn close 🤦♂️
@@WatchCrunchOfficial yea man, I was very intrigued of how “good” those replica are couple of years ago, I did a deep dive researching those what they called the super clones. There are watch enthusiasts who takes a super clone (mostly Rolex), and put authentic dial, hands, and etc on them, and I think they called it the Frankenstein. The details on those Frankenstein are almost flawless, a regular person most likely can’t tell if they are clones or authentic, and for professionals, they probably would have to open the casing to verify authenticity.
You should have gotten a full 100% refund. That seller knowingly or unknowingly committed fraud and could have been prosecuted.
They have too many models and numbers. Love the look of them and their uniqueness and have been really interested in some used/authenticated ones.
Did you sell the fake watch? If not, how much are you selling it for?
Why only a partial refund?!
It was a negotiation with the seller because he suggested I take some responsibility for not doing better research. He's not completely wrong... I got the majority of the money back
@@WatchCrunchOfficial What?! He sold the watch as genuine! Of course you should’ve taken it immediately to get it verified as real, but he was the one who sold you a fake, therefore he should’ve refunded you completely! I would’ve been at the cops to press charges so quickly! What an asshole!
I disagree. He promised one thing and didn’t deliver. Some might call that illegal. You may have been scammed twice.
@@mrjasonrowland exactly!
Loved the video
Thanks Dave 😁
I don't believe this. Unless I missed something, there is no way you bought a Panarai with no box, no paper, no authentic guarantee, no feedback, or no escrow. You are not that...forget it. Or are you?
The crown looks awfully thin too. San Martin and rinse have some nice homage cases that actually look good and "beefy"
Shouldve given him to check the fakes without the original
The price difference between the genuine and replica is 20 to 30 times, yet the fact that the replicas are made to be almost indistinguishable from the genuine ones is quite impressive.
The funny thing is if you look up panerai Brooklyn bridge limited edition is that they took a unmodified of the shelf ETA movement and put it in the watches. The movement didn’t as much say Panerai on it. So yeh panerai have made fakes of their own watches lol
Did you contact the seller and challenge him for a legal confrontation? Why not full refund?
Your fake Panerai is better quality than the real one coming out of the Panerai factory right now, I would hang on to it if I were you 😂
With fakes this good we are doomed. I don't collect very expensive watches, and mostly vintage, hopefully I woun't get scammed
Yeah it's a whole other set of concerns with vintage: Franken watches
@@WatchCrunchOfficial Franken watches in my eyes are a bigger problem due to all the auction drama with frankens recently, it's never been a more dangerous time to be a watch collector
Yesterday I went inside some small antiques shop and they were selling a Panerai like that one, looked beautiful. They guy at the store told me that I can check out for the code on the back of the watch to see if it´s original. He was asking $1200 which is pretty cheap.....so it makes me think it´s not real..
I’ve allllllways wanted this watch, I totally cannot afford a real one. I liked the design and luminor marina before I knew what status Panerai had…if you don’t want this fake, can I buy it?
Hello sir ihave luminor marina automatic i dont know its real or fake
I'm sorry this happened to you. Hopefully this experience hasn't soured you on the brand. To me the clasp was a dead giveaway. There are dedicated forums out there where members can help you spot a fake by pics. It's not a guarantee but in this case, I'm almost sure someone would've noted the clasp if they saw it. And as you said, buy the seller, not the watch. There are also trusted sellers on the Rolex forums which is where I got both of mine.
Yes I just admit I didn't know much about panerai at the time and thought this was my gateway drug, lesson learned. I'm still intrigued and hope to play with more in the future. 👍
I'm beyond shocked that you even received a partial refund. I would have thought the guy would have ran
hey man, i've been searching about panerai since many said mine is fake and some gave a link to compare between the authentic and fake, but as i was researching, mine looks like has the same as the original & fake which was the biggest flaw they said bcs mine doesn't has a plate.
Sorry to hear that. Not sure what you mean by "doesn't have a plate"
Great video.
Thank you!
So, he gave you a partial refund? Did you get to keep the fake or did you return it because if he kept the watch AND half your money, then you just gave him £1500 for nothing!
He gave me most of my money back, and I kept the fake so I can make this video.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial cool 👌
Butterfly clip strip is a warning ⚠️ sign, it was not yet develop at that time when this model released.
Hmmmmmmm to determine that the watch is fake you need to have a real one to compare it to and also and you need a jeweler with a strong magnification glass and he needs to carefully study at the watch with his face 6 inches away from it. If you would have kept the watch you would have gone your whole life never bothered by the thought that it wasn't an official Panerai.
great content. subscribed.
Cheers Martin! Welcome 😊
My only criticism is that you are comparing an automatic to a hand wind. But you did show the differences in quality.
It's what I had on hand...but yes, very poor movement on the fake.
The lesson is don't buy from an Ebay seller who has no feedback!
Lesson learned...
Panerai is very strange, although I do like them. They do nothing to prevent copies -- like Rolex does with its various laser-engraved details.
I have a Panerai PAM177 (44mm brushed titanium Luminor Marina style, w/sandwich dial & transparent back). I got concerned about traveling with it, so I purchased a $350 fake that I now take on trips. Got an OEM Panerai strap for it. It's very very hard to discern the difference between the real and the fake even when they are right next to each other, at least until you turn it over ... the movements are a little different. Surprisingly, they're both about equally accurate and the lume is pretty much identical. I don't believe the fake is all that water resistant; I've had no problem taking it in the shower or doing some mild snorkeling but I realize that's probably not a good idea.
At any rate, the replicas are very very very close to the real thing, and Panerai doesn't build in any "Easter eggs" making it harder to copy, other than the movement itself. Even the movement doesn't look _all_ that different; if the watches aren't side by side, most people wouldn't be able to tell..
I collect Soviet watches and I have always wanted a 1940s kirova type 1. I found one on ebay from a seller who had 97% positive feedback and thousands of sales it was 114 dollars so I bought it he said that it had been serviced but it was 10 minutes fast per hour and the crown was broken it cost me 225 dollars to fix
You took a bad situation and made a video to show the entire world how irresponsible and foolish you were to believe someone "on a forum". Well done and thank you.
Aaaaand that's exactly why I don't buy expensive watches, because I just can't tell the difference. I'm just not the type who notices miniscule details. And if I can't see the difference, what's they point paying for it? I did buy a couple of expensive watches in the past because I expected.... I don't even know what it was that I expected to be honest, but when the watch arrived it just wasn't there.
Hi, is it possible to find a real Panerai let day Pam 104 at about $3,000 or that is definitely fake!!!
How can anyone blame you, many Panerai models have been on the NWBG (not worth of buying gen) list of replicas watches for a long time as only very minor details give away their non authenticity. The only person to blame is the one that originally got it for 400$ and scammed someone else for 4000$
Yeah, I definitely learned to be a lot more careful and really only trusting sellers with a good history.
I looked at eBay for a breitling avenger 2 seawolf. Comparing it to photos from breitling it was obvious fakes are being sold on ebay.
Geez, I wish sites like Ebay and Chrono24 only sold verfied watches, but of course that's not their business model.
@@WatchCrunchOfficial e bay guarantees the watches
If you want to buy a watch that’s pre-loved, try Crown and Calibre. I’ve never had a bad experience with them. Take a look at their website. Talk with one of their customer service reps. My last purchase from them was an Omega Speedmaster automatic. There wasn’t a mark, or scuff, anywhere on that watch. Plus, it’s one of the most accurate watches I’ve ever owned. I was amazed. I have no vested interest in the company, and I’m sure you’ll be pleased with them. By the way, I once purchased a Rolex replica (fake) from a “friend”. Needless to say, I got a refund.
Yeah, I've had good experiences with C&C as well. I imagine Bob's watches is another reputable reseller.
Dude's voice is a good Keanu Reeves impression.
I got a tourbillon Panerai 1950 8days GTM I thought it was a fake because I didn’t see others on sale but I just barley find out that mines is only 1 of 100 pieces!!!!
Why a partial refund?
I had to negotiate with the seller because he suggested I take some responsibility for not doing better research. He's not completely wrong... I got the majority of the money back though.