Should be tagline for Pepe's or Taco Bell. But yes, I totally agree , you might as well get a super clone or homage. Why spend $ on garbage? It's an upgrade to their bottom line, I suppose labor costs too much? Sad.
A friend of mine bought a Pan Lumi and wore it for a full year before admitting that it was a fake... Heres the odd part, I'm no Panerai expert, but his watch was sized accurate, had a sapphire crystal, a beautifully soft leather band, AND an ETA movement!?! It still cost him about US $550, but it looked and felt and ran like an 8k version. The only thing about it was that the movement was undecorated, but I had to look that up, and now Panerai are no longer decorating their movements either? So what is the actual difference here...? Besides the thousands of dollars...
I once had a PAM111 and a modified replica of the same watch to wear to shows, long boarding, and while traveling. I literally had to check the serial numbers to tell the difference if I wasn’t continually wearing them.
As a certified watchmaker I don’t get why people telling having a hacking system is more premium than a non hacking system. I know a lot of reasons why I wouldn’t want a hacking system and following your arguments a Patek would be considered as a not premium brand? I don’t think so….
Great video Have a 2005 PAM 210 And absolutely love it. Great finishing. Gorgeous watch. Imo, if you’re going to buy Panerai, the early 2000 models are where it’s at.
I have a PAM183 from 2011. Superb case finishing and the movement seen through the crystal case back is exquisite and beautiful. The new in-house movements are NOT lookers are they? Give me the old ones all day long.
Most successful brand are imitated, give me one swiss watch with no immitation : 1) Ming 2) Squale ; you buy these 2 watches and you will not encounter counterfeit problem. But if you buy Rolex Nautilus AP Panerai... then you need papers, service history etc as the fake can be as good as the real one at a glance or if you overlook in instagram.
Counterfeits have to be better built because they don't want to see them back. The manufacturer can crank out garbage and make you feel good by honoring a warranty
"Wow how do they expect luxury watch owners not to get pissed about this?", I'm thinking. Then I realize most people buying these watches won't even notice cause their buying a name and probably don't know much about watches. In the short run I doubt this will hurt them. In the long run though the bad mouth from this is going to build and its going to hurt their brand. Nevermind what counterfeiting is going to do which will probably be much worse. If you buy a closed case back watch I could care less if its decorated myself but to remove hacking? Why? How much money do they really save from that vs the expensive decorative machining? The brand really has lost its way.
I just bought one after thinking for years about it. I absolutely love it....time will tell if I made a mistake. I can't hack it, but now that I began to play with the straps, I love it even more.
And I am in line (saving) to buy mine. People should see other videos in TH-cam showing Panerai's manufacturing facility. All the critics I see recently come from the same article... same one that say that a Panerai production cost is $350, which BSh... for anyone with basic knowledge about industrial production. Just look at the machine, swiss salaries, R&D investment... the guy who wrote that article clearly has bad intention behind it.
As an owner of one of the first generations of the PAM01312 this is so sad to hear. I loved it for the fact I could see the movement (my first luxury watch), and while it got talked shit on for being poorly decorated back then I liked the more industrial aesthetic of the brushing. I Jess this explains why they have been moving more and more to solid casebacks in their more recent releases. I like Panera I and love mine, I get it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but this sucks. Now if this was done bring down prices (I.E. bring the price of their entry level pieces closer to the $6000 USD mark which is where I think they should be; then I’d be all about it, but to purely just increase profits like this is a real shame.
Agree and I myself own the 312 and the newest Panerai 44mm Sub and am super happy with both and will continue to hv a Panerai as long as i can!!people who dont want to spend come up with all the reasons anyway!!
$6000 USD for a watch from this what has become a crap brand with recently? With this ETA (which they are trying to sell as an in-house mech and and cutting corners all over they don't deserve to be even amongst Tissot, Certina, Longines and Alpina already... Especially Alpina
I guess Panerai understands that the people who spend literally thousands for a wristwatch aren't the brightest stars in the universe. It's all about name and the prestige factor for them at this point.
@@31hallite most people first consider the name. They wouldn't give it a chance to begin with if it wasn't for the name... otherwise just buy a cheap copy of this watch that is probably the same quality.
If folk like showing off their oversized wrist watches that fall off whilst in the loo of a pub & you find it n hand it in but it's never claimed then i get to keep it , this happens twice a wk & everyday at Xmas. No not robbed just stats i looked up for my area 😅. I have a spare one it needs fixing who wants it ?
Oscar Wilde said: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness. But since no other watchmaking company tries to imitate Panerai design language, doesn't it prove that Panerai just isn't worth the price of admission? Food for thoughts.
Has more to do with intellectual property as the design is protected. Of course, the 911 comes to my mind, which is a pure icon of a sports car with an unmistakably design, yet nobody can copy it without getting sued.
This seems to be a Richemont “pulling the strings” issue, not just with Panerai, but IWC as well. I was in the market for a Mark XVIII and saw that the finishing was reduced to a blasted finish not only on the movement but the clasp as well, where it used to be perlage…very similar to what Panerai is doing. To add insult to injury, they just raised the price by hundreds. No thanks!!
Yep, gone are the days of good ole decorated 2892 based movements in Mark series. Their newer Sellita based undecorated movement in $5k Mark XVIII is absolutely no no
@@cubex68 absolutely. Richemont are pushing Panerai and IWC down the new materials route to be seen as innovators but they are cost cutting in other areas to compensate for this. Too many models in too many sizes. Back to basics is what's needed in my opinion but sales probably don't agree with me
When you're spending this money, the ONLY thing you're getting in this day and age is a pretty movement. If they can't do the basics like hacking, AND they can't make the movement pretty, then they're not bringing anything to the table.
thank god somebody finally addressed this, thank you. and btw I agree with you not selling your Panerai you have, like you said, that'll be the last GOOD Panerai you might ever see if this scam brand keeps going on like this that being said I still adore Luminor design so I'm buying homage shits from Ali
I don't know very much about Panerai, but t his is obviously not the move of a company that is doing well. My guess is they're against the wall financially and making a desperate play to cut short term costs in order to meet short term obligations, and they're doing it at the expense of their long term reputation. This is the sort of thing you see in the final days of a failing business. They're not thinking about next year, they're thinking about next week.
Richemont is putting the screws on Panerai to generate maximum profits as it is one of their biggest cashcows along with Cartier. The difference is that Cartier doesn't have to cut corners with their watches because they have very high margins jewellery to prop up their bottom line, something that Panerai obviously doesn't have.
Hello TT, I don’t own a Panerai but as far as I know, update means any change “good” or “bad”, while upgrade means any change to the better. It looks like P has done some cost cutting and has updated their particular watch. BTW, keep your videos coming, I really enjoy them. Thanks.
Up-date means bringing an older product (like software) to a newer standard (and thus almost always better) while up-grade means there is no old and new version but one worse and one better current option (like seats on a plane).
I have a TAG F1 quartz and when I took the cashback off I was amazed by the fact that the inside of the caseback was milled out with finishing similar to the perlage on the Rolex. On a $1000 quartz!. Impressed but seemed a false choice when the lumed dial needed more lume.
I am a small private watch collector and I have owned many Rolex in my time. For the first time in my life I am so over hearing about Rolex and as such, I have actually sold off my Rolex’s. I still own Panerai and Omega and other brands and happy to do so. Rolex, no. You go on about Panerai being faked yet you can get a Rolex so close to original too. The hype on Rolex ruined it for me.
These guys have really lost the plot . Some of the stuff they have been up to is just plain bizarre. The same guys who thought it would be a great idea to bring a new take on the dive watch give it 30 meter water resist and charge 7k . The cost cutting that’s happening is mind blowing .. How can you trust them. ? he company have been on the slide for many years but it seems they are hell bent on digging their own grave .
I do like the Panerai designs but on several occasions both in Harrods London and in the London Panerai Boutique , having tried on the watches the price point and lack of quality really hits home so I walked away and haven’t ever really listed after one since
A $30,000 Vacheron Constantine Overseas doesn't hack either, that's why I didn't buy one, no really, it wasn't the $30,000 price tag, it was the NO HACKING movement, no really, I wouldn't lie about this.
Notwithstanding what Panerai is doing, Rolex has permanently lost my business. Artificial scarcity and deliberately moving new stock to grey markets to laughably raise prices as ADs share those profits just doesn’t work for me. You can’t walk into an AD and buy ANY steel model. Rolex has become a joke of a brand.
I just bought my first Panerai, PAM01270 and I love it. But yeah I understand the problems with Panerai. Still tough it's a beautiful watch with a rich history and I wanted it.
I sold my Patek and get 3 PAM, and I did not regret my decision. I wore my PAM in an elevator with one lady on my way for a meeting, she glance at my wrist as I press the floor button , she recognise my PAM ...she said "Nice Panerai..." and I said..."You seem to know about Panerai" and I started long conversation with her and lead me to a new business. Patek..yes it amazes the coffee shop owner, knowing you are loaded, that's it. Rolex it attracts strangers at a distance to look at you and makes him start thinking, how can he get one? So I decided sell my Patek; keep my Rolex in safe deposit box and got another 3 PAM to do the work and get me more deals. I have a friend that own a bank in Singapore, he wears AP, and his CEO that does the business for him wears PAM.
I was dreaming of a Submersible fromthe time I put on a 00305 ages ago. Get out of school and scrape my coins together, BOOM, decontented product. I think I have to scratch my itch with the Speedmaster 57 with the sandwich dial instead. After reading that article (it popped up as a suggestion), I've been questioning if the way to go for me wouldn't be a Radiomir base logo to play with some straps and call it a day. At least at that pricepoint there are some competitors that don't offer display backs. Bell & Ross comes to mind. This video was therapeutic for me coping with the disappointment of what was for a time my dream watch.
Panerai has many of the ingredients needed to be great - a cool/interesting history, a unique design language you can instantly spot across the room, name recognition etc. how do they keep finding ways to shoot themselves in the foot?
Trying to please too many people at the same time with complete over saturation. They now sell models that are 38mm, 40mm, 42mm, 44mm, 45mm, 47mm and 48mm. Movements range from garbage to beautiful micro rotors in constantly new case materials. It's too much, they need to get back to basics
I have to disagree on the decoration. With Panerai i want an undecorated movement, i want the raw feeling of a military timepiece. But it should also go into the pricing..
Just got myself BLK Panerai Luminor BiTempo last month with see through movement and in love with it. I didn't know about these evolution movement, I just don't like buying close-up case.
Panerai is the only brand where I don't fault someone for owning a clone. As T3 stated, Panerai has even posted pirated watches instead of their own product. I'll happily buy one of any number of companies using similar designs, often with better quality movements (that hack!).
Honestly it’s kinda a joke how easy it is to fake a lot of simple Panerai’s. I got a friend who exclusively wears top tier fake watches and his fake Panerai is hilariously accurate to mine. Which is shame because it’a piss easy to tell the difference between my real glashutte original and his fake one.
A variation on Louis Rossman's, "you will own nothing and like it" except Panerai says, "you will accept less and like it". Wait, Apple and Tesla already does that. Doh!
What Panerai becoming an Invicta? Bead blasted flame fusioned NH35 version For 6 value pays and a puppy on the dial. Suddenly Richard Mille doesn't seem that bad.
I accept your point of view and your criticism but did you take the time to get intouch with Panerai themselves to ask them about the changes?You go onto a site to look at what another critic is saying but you did not call the company itself.Not saying what you said is wrong but at least it gives Panerai a chance to put their reasons across to you.
Panerai - profit interests over watch community interests. Especially by putting less effort in their production processes. In the long run I want a METAS Omega!
Update does not have to be an upgrade every time. Technically they did an update but in a wrong direction 🤣, so downgrade. I will not buy panerai watch, definitely. Good episode TTT!
coming from a rolex and Panny owner. I could care less about "hacking" I buy watches mostly for aesthetics. My Pannys have the older ETA movement. and like you said, may not be the most sophisticated. But they do look very nice in the open case back. If a new panny has a look I like. I will still buy it. regardless of lack of hacking.
Somewhere in the deep dark woods a third-class drunken blacksmith fires up his forge , beats the shit out of some old horseshoes and voila … there is a new Panarai movement.
@@xx1j the problem is that they build and marketed the P9010 movement originally as hacking seconds but Panerai bait and switched to a downgraded version (while keeping the same movement designation) without telling anyone until it blew up in their faces.
Even the Zenith El primero movement's don't hack only the new El primero movement hacks that comes in the new Chronmaster hacks but on a chronograph a no hacking seconds doesn't bother me but on 3 hander watches I do like hacking seconds
I heard about the cost cutting measures. The entry level Luminor model - starting at £4600, £400 extra if you want a small seconds - does not have a sandwich dial, no domed sapphire crystal, of course no exhibition case back, and is 100m water resistant instead of 300m. The vintage Unitas/ETA movement was even COSC certified. They should do it like Rolex and really save on the box etc and put all the money into the watch.
I've never been a Panerai fan. First wear what you want. If you like Invicta, Micheal Koles, or Richard Milles, wear them. Who cares what other people think. For me, Panerai are so ugly and they all look the same. The shape of their case is too large and ugly. Numbers are too big. They have zero class to them. Like Omega, Rolex, Tudor, Seiko, Longines sport watches will look good while wearing a button down shirt. I dont see it with Panerai. Now apparently their quality sucks and they also posting counterfeit of their own watches on their social media. They are clearly badly run. They lied about in house movements. No hacking for multi thousand dollar watch. If you like Panerai, more power to you though.
I just watched your video and I really enjoyed it! Your video was well-made, informative, and entertaining. I especially liked the way you explained the topic in a clear and concise way. I also appreciate the way you included relevant details in your video. Overall, I thought your video was excellent! I would definitely recommend it to others who are interested in learning more about the topic. Thanks for creating such a great video! Sincerely. PS: I outsourced this feedback to AI
The one Panerai I was interested in was the Panerai Luminor chronograph with the Zenith El primero movement from the early 2000s which doesn't hack only the new chronomaster El primero movement hacks which doesn't bother me on a chronograph but on a 3 hander I would like hacking mainly because I gotten used to it. I prefer solid case backs
@@johnhatton730 Yes its definitely a hidden gem 💎. Panerai didn't make alot them but they do pop up. Yeah Zenith is 1 of my favorite watchmakers a Zenith tipo cp2 43mm black dial pilot watch might be my next watch. The Zenith El primero has such a great history 👏
He does not mix the terms, he explains both of them. However, he correctly says that in respect to a product, especially a luxury one, you think of an update as a better version. When Mercedes updates the C-class, you expect a better car than the previous one. If you upgrade from a C-class, you get an E-class.
The compagny is in search of high margin. Of course they are interested only by money and not watch making. But it is the same for swatch group, a lot of people buy this kind of watch to show their social status, they are not watch enthusiast and don't even know how mechanical watch works. If you really love the mechanical watch a good Seiko or even better an Orient already fill the gap. Ok if people with money and real watch fan buy a premium watch because they love the watch and not to show off or to make a speculative invest, I respect that.
I don't know if AP changed their movements, but I remember handling one that didn't hack about 5 years ago... I agree that the finishing is a downgrade but there's no function attached to that. The hacking doesn't really bother me but I guess there's no excuse for that other than cost-cutting. Continuously moving seconds does make it easier to change the time on the fly without having to reset the second hand... but I'm reaching there.
Totally agree regarding the ridiculous Duo and its 30m water resistance. Wtf were they thinking about when they signed this off for production? The new in-house movements are not good looking at all and not befitting of a display back imo. Totally unlike the highly modified and decorated ETAs which are gorgeous and mimic the original Rolex movements of the early 20th Century. I love my now discontinued PAM183 Radiomir. It is a real classic and will never sell it, but most of the current lineup leaves me cold. Come on Panerai, please get your act together.
When counterfeit watches looks better than the real one, to the point that the manufacturer post pictures of fakes rather than their own on Instagram, you know you have a major problem. 🤣
My PAM111 is a fake that was made by a friend. It has a Seagull 3600 movement and over the last several days is a +/- 0 seconds a day. How can you find fault in that?
I love Panerai, well… old Panerai. It’s a little bit sad to see them trying to swim upmarket but… in the wrong ways. I wouldn’t have a problem with them charging JLC Money if they offered a JCL tier product. But they don’t - unfortunately.
.....I'm sure somewhere in the Orient, there's a warehouse full of old, unused 7S26's. Perhaps the folks at Panerai could tap into this for more, "updates". Also, I never thought I'd never hear, "explosive diarrhea" discussed in a watch review. Much thanks for working that in!
I love the Panerai watch design. Please help me. I cannot afford more than $2K on a watch. Are there quality watches that come close to Panerai looks, that's not a fake?
i think hacking is overrated, want syncro precision use your phone, or get a quartz, even the best cosc watches would be runing +2-2 by the night. the decor has no excuse
The Perezscope stuff is brilliantly researched but has anyone asked why he has such an agenda against one brand? I purchased a Panerai timeline print off him a while back and since then he has made a number of claims about Panerai. If you look at his older articles, he has written one about his own Panerai, a PAM127 and he loves that watch (so do I). Have you seen the movement in that watch? Its a modified ETA movement adjusted to look like an old Rolex movement and Jose hailed this. What has changed his opinion since then? Is it possible that there is an access issue with Richemont and that Jose no longer has access to the brand which has P'd him off? I have to be honest, it has P'd me off that he has taken my money for a timeline and is now saying that Panerai were basically just Rolex watches, completely changing the story of the timeline that he has made money producing. He has written articles on panerai using Valfleurier movements and at the very bottom of an article, he mentioned that IWC and Cartier also use these base calibres. Why so much focus on one brand when it's clearly a Richemont cost cutting and parts supply thing. I purchased a Luminor in 2018 for 500usd more expensive than breitling charge for a plastic, quartz watch. Why is there no Perezcope focus on Breitlings blatant rip off? How about Cartier, why are there no questions of a Quartz tank that requiring daylight to charge its battery despite costing thousands? Panerai have not covered themselves in glory and I am not a fan of modern Panerai pricing for what they are but there is an agenda here that I bet will come out soon. In the meantime, I will admire my now questionable timeline!
I was recently on the fence of buying a Panerai but with all this nonsense going on I have really gotten turned off from the brand and not to mention the horrible bezel wiggling on the submersible see your terrific video I was in shock.
Upgrade is to make better but update can easily be confused as an upgrade but in truth, update is to update to the here and now policy/procedure or this is whats happening now. Example would be a news channel "update" a hurricane news story from a category level 4 to a 3. The hurricane has been downgraded to a level 3 but the news "update" is to tell you about the downgrade. Manufacturing uses this as a play on words. They make you think you're getting and upgrade but really only getting an update to their procedures.
I am a habitual impulse buyer and last year on a lunch break from New York Comic-Con, I almost burned my Rolex fund on a white dial Panerai Luminor Submersible 42mm at retail price. I am very glad I did not pull the trigger. The display model had the bezel wobble and rattle on the z-axis and when I pointed it out to the salesperson, she denied there was any issue. There was an audible click of the bezel hitting the case when I tapped it. It is still a beautiful watch but that experience soured me on the brand.
most people would be genuinely shocked at how little Paneristi care about this. As someone that owns 2, it doesn't bug me much but the models I own hack and I'm not interested in any of the new offerings
Even the Patek Philippe Nautilus doesn't hack only the current Nautilus even of PP chronographs don't hack it really doesn't bother me on a chronograph but on 3 hand watches I do like hacking. Probably because I got used to it
Thanks for the heads up, I was interested in one as a daily. Didn't realize they had "ETA" movements. Also, why do you use that siren in the background? Each time I thought my car alarm was going off lol
At this point a non hacking movement is probably harder for the replica manufacturers to source than a hacking one. Maybe they are trying to do something about the fakes?
These watches are sadly no longer aimed at the watch enthusiast rather just a person who wants to buy something because it’s expensive, the average buyer doesn’t even know what “hacking” is. We watch geeks need to stick to the older real Panerais!
“…updated myself with explosive diarrhoea”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s comment of the day! You win the internet!
Should be tagline for Pepe's or Taco Bell. But yes, I totally agree , you might as well get a super clone or homage. Why spend $ on garbage? It's an upgrade to their bottom line, I suppose labor costs too much? Sad.
Can say the same about all the other watches out there then
I'm watching this on the toilet 🤣
I love my PAM 88 I purchased in 2008. Kind of sad to see the brand diminish a bit but the beauty of the watch is still there for me.
Imo Panerai has some really cool watches but honestly theres no way I would buy one after all of these controversies and ridiculous bs.
A friend of mine bought a Pan Lumi and wore it for a full year before admitting that it was a fake... Heres the odd part, I'm no Panerai expert, but his watch was sized accurate, had a sapphire crystal, a beautifully soft leather band, AND an ETA movement!?! It still cost him about US $550, but it looked and felt and ran like an 8k version. The only thing about it was that the movement was undecorated, but I had to look that up, and now Panerai are no longer decorating their movements either? So what is the actual difference here...? Besides the thousands of dollars...
I once had a PAM111 and a modified replica of the same watch to wear to shows, long boarding, and while traveling. I literally had to check the serial numbers to tell the difference if I wasn’t continually wearing them.
same shid different azz
Wow that new Panerai finishing looks a lot like the finishing on an NH35 or powermatic 80.
Agree. Skip to Panerai , just get a Seiko or a Tissot. And do not look back.
At least NH35 has a hacking second and can be easily adjusted ;)
Even my NH35 powered watch looks better than that.
As a certified watchmaker I don’t get why people telling having a hacking system is more premium than a non hacking system. I know a lot of reasons why I wouldn’t want a hacking system and following your arguments a Patek would be considered as a not premium brand? I don’t think so….
I never understood the prices of Panerais. Still don't. NEVER EVER will...
Great video Have a 2005 PAM 210
And absolutely love it. Great finishing. Gorgeous watch. Imo, if you’re going to buy Panerai, the early 2000 models are where it’s at.
I have a PAM183 from 2011. Superb case finishing and the movement seen through the crystal case back is exquisite and beautiful.
The new in-house movements are NOT lookers are they? Give me the old ones all day long.
Could it be that a counterfeit Panerai might be better than a real one some day? :-D
Throw in the hacking feature and they should do well..
Most successful brand are imitated, give me one swiss watch with no immitation : 1) Ming 2) Squale ; you buy these 2 watches and you will not encounter counterfeit problem. But if you buy Rolex Nautilus AP Panerai... then you need papers, service history etc as the fake can be as good as the real one at a glance or if you overlook in instagram.
I'd honestly rather take the counterfeits over these new ones.
The counterfeiters put more effort into their watches and they even hack.
Counterfeits have to be better built because they don't want to see them back. The manufacturer can crank out garbage and make you feel good by honoring a warranty
I think we're at that point, at least for this model
This makes me sad - sadness has befallen me. I have been updated to sad status. OH HEY KITTY PICTURE! Happy (late) birthday to Link 🥳
"Wow how do they expect luxury watch owners not to get pissed about this?", I'm thinking. Then I realize most people buying these watches won't even notice cause their buying a name and probably don't know much about watches. In the short run I doubt this will hurt them. In the long run though the bad mouth from this is going to build and its going to hurt their brand. Nevermind what counterfeiting is going to do which will probably be much worse.
If you buy a closed case back watch I could care less if its decorated myself but to remove hacking? Why? How much money do they really save from that vs the expensive decorative machining? The brand really has lost its way.
Considering most cheap mechanicals hack that is unnacceptable.
I just bought one after thinking for years about it. I absolutely love it....time will tell if I made a mistake. I can't hack it, but now that I began to play with the straps, I love it even more.
Same man. Love it
And I am in line (saving) to buy mine. People should see other videos in TH-cam showing Panerai's manufacturing facility. All the critics I see recently come from the same article... same one that say that a Panerai production cost is $350, which BSh... for anyone with basic knowledge about industrial production. Just look at the machine, swiss salaries, R&D investment... the guy who wrote that article clearly has bad intention behind it.
As an owner of one of the first generations of the PAM01312 this is so sad to hear. I loved it for the fact I could see the movement (my first luxury watch), and while it got talked shit on for being poorly decorated back then I liked the more industrial aesthetic of the brushing. I Jess this explains why they have been moving more and more to solid casebacks in their more recent releases. I like Panera I and love mine, I get it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but this sucks. Now if this was done bring down prices (I.E. bring the price of their entry level pieces closer to the $6000 USD mark which is where I think they should be; then I’d be all about it, but to purely just increase profits like this is a real shame.
Agree and I myself own the 312 and the newest Panerai 44mm Sub and am super happy with both and will continue to hv a Panerai as long as i can!!people who dont want to spend come up with all the reasons anyway!!
$6000 USD for a watch from this what has become a crap brand with recently? With this ETA (which they are trying to sell as an in-house mech and and cutting corners all over they don't deserve to be even amongst Tissot, Certina, Longines and Alpina already... Especially Alpina
I guess Panerai understands that the people who spend literally thousands for a wristwatch aren't the brightest stars in the universe. It's all about name and the prestige factor for them at this point.
Exactly!
It's not just about name it's if you like it.
@@31hallite most people first consider the name. They wouldn't give it a chance to begin with if it wasn't for the name... otherwise just buy a cheap copy of this watch that is probably the same quality.
Yes, those people are not the brightest, yes they can afford something you (and me?) can't afford. Contradiction?
If folk like showing off their oversized wrist watches that fall off whilst in the loo of a pub & you find it n hand it in but it's never claimed then i get to keep it , this happens twice a wk & everyday at Xmas. No not robbed just stats i looked up for my area 😅. I have a spare one it needs fixing who wants it ?
You are right with every word! I sold my PAM 372 a year ago and never regret it!
Oscar Wilde said: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness. But since no other watchmaking company tries to imitate Panerai design language, doesn't it prove that Panerai just isn't worth the price of admission? Food for thoughts.
Has more to do with intellectual property as the design is protected. Of course, the 911 comes to my mind, which is a pure icon of a sports car with an unmistakably design, yet nobody can copy it without getting sued.
@@PorscheCayenneS Thank you for this reply. You're on spot.
Errm... tons of watches have pincushion cases and big numerals. Magrette comes to mind as one that almost exclusively does it.
This seems to be a Richemont “pulling the strings” issue, not just with Panerai, but IWC as well. I was in the market for a Mark XVIII and saw that the finishing was reduced to a blasted finish not only on the movement but the clasp as well, where it used to be perlage…very similar to what Panerai is doing. To add insult to injury, they just raised the price by hundreds. No thanks!!
Yep, gone are the days of good ole decorated 2892 based movements in Mark series. Their newer Sellita based undecorated movement in $5k Mark XVIII is absolutely no no
@@cubex68 I can’t agree more!
@@cubex68 absolutely. Richemont are pushing Panerai and IWC down the new materials route to be seen as innovators but they are cost cutting in other areas to compensate for this. Too many models in too many sizes. Back to basics is what's needed in my opinion but sales probably don't agree with me
After this I'll feel very hesitant about buying watches from any of the Richemont brands except JLC. (I can't afford A. Lange & Söhne anyway =)
When you're spending this money, the ONLY thing you're getting in this day and age is a pretty movement. If they can't do the basics like hacking, AND they can't make the movement pretty, then they're not bringing anything to the table.
thank god somebody finally addressed this, thank you. and btw I agree with you not selling your Panerai you have, like you said, that'll be the last GOOD Panerai you might ever see if this scam brand keeps going on like this that being said I still adore Luminor design so I'm buying homage shits from Ali
I don't know very much about Panerai, but t his is obviously not the move of a company that is doing well. My guess is they're against the wall financially and making a desperate play to cut short term costs in order to meet short term obligations, and they're doing it at the expense of their long term reputation. This is the sort of thing you see in the final days of a failing business. They're not thinking about next year, they're thinking about next week.
Richemont is putting the screws on Panerai to generate maximum profits as it is one of their biggest cashcows along with Cartier. The difference is that Cartier doesn't have to cut corners with their watches because they have very high margins jewellery to prop up their bottom line, something that Panerai obviously doesn't have.
I agree
How to spot a PAM fake….it will hack and have a better decorated movement. The guys at Panarai are genius - it’s the ultimate double bluff!!!
😆 😆 😆
Hello TT, I don’t own a Panerai but as far as I know, update means any change “good” or “bad”, while upgrade means any change to the better. It looks like P has done some cost cutting and has updated their particular watch. BTW, keep your videos coming, I really enjoy them. Thanks.
Up-date means bringing an older product (like software) to a newer standard (and thus almost always better) while up-grade means there is no old and new version but one worse and one better current option (like seats on a plane).
I have a TAG F1 quartz and when I took the cashback off I was amazed by the fact that the inside of the caseback was milled out with finishing similar to the perlage on the Rolex. On a $1000 quartz!. Impressed but seemed a false choice when the lumed dial needed more lume.
I am a small private watch collector and I have owned many Rolex in my time. For the first time in my life I am so over hearing about Rolex and as such, I have actually sold off my Rolex’s. I still own Panerai and Omega and other brands and happy to do so. Rolex, no. You go on about Panerai being faked yet you can get a Rolex so close to original too. The hype on Rolex ruined it for me.
No, real will always be real.
Happy Birthday Link. Chuff chuff
These guys have really lost the plot . Some of the stuff they have been up to is just plain bizarre. The same guys who thought it would be a great idea to bring a new take on the dive watch give it 30 meter water resist and charge 7k . The cost cutting that’s happening is mind blowing .. How can you trust them. ? he company have been on the slide for many years but it seems they are hell bent on digging their own grave .
Modern Panerai has always been a fashion watch, backed by savvy marketing.
What is the distinction? As long as they're putting some effort into the movement, I don't think they deserve to be called fashion watch.
@@xpusostomos his comment is spot on. Definitely a fashion watch that has fooled the masses. Panerai is not proper watchmaking.
@@whereRbearsTeeth ok.... Why,?
So is Breitling.
You just described Rolex 😂
Happy Birthday Link!🎉🙈🙉🙊😺
I do like the Panerai designs but on several occasions both in Harrods London and in the London Panerai Boutique , having tried on the watches the price point and lack of quality really hits home so I walked away and haven’t ever really listed after one since
A $30,000 Vacheron Constantine Overseas doesn't hack either, that's why I didn't buy one, no really, it wasn't the $30,000 price tag, it was the NO HACKING movement, no really, I wouldn't lie about this.
I wouldn’t buy a watch that doesn’t hack……ever.
Notwithstanding what Panerai is doing, Rolex has permanently lost my business. Artificial scarcity and deliberately moving new stock to grey markets to laughably raise prices as ADs share those profits just doesn’t work for me. You can’t walk into an AD and buy ANY steel model. Rolex has become a joke of a brand.
Rolex told me they dont care about your business.
I just bought my first Panerai, PAM01270 and I love it. But yeah I understand the problems with Panerai. Still tough it's a beautiful watch with a rich history and I wanted it.
I sold my Patek and get 3 PAM, and I did not regret my decision. I wore my PAM in an elevator with one lady on my way for a meeting, she glance at my wrist as I press the floor button , she recognise my PAM ...she said "Nice Panerai..." and I said..."You seem to know about Panerai" and I started long conversation with her and lead me to a new business. Patek..yes it amazes the coffee shop owner, knowing you are loaded, that's it. Rolex it attracts strangers at a distance to look at you and makes him start thinking, how can he get one? So I decided sell my Patek; keep my Rolex in safe deposit box and got another 3 PAM to do the work and get me more deals.
I have a friend that own a bank in Singapore, he wears AP, and his CEO that does the business for him wears PAM.
I was dreaming of a Submersible fromthe time I put on a 00305 ages ago. Get out of school and scrape my coins together, BOOM, decontented product. I think I have to scratch my itch with the Speedmaster 57 with the sandwich dial instead. After reading that article (it popped up as a suggestion), I've been questioning if the way to go for me wouldn't be a Radiomir base logo to play with some straps and call it a day. At least at that pricepoint there are some competitors that don't offer display backs. Bell & Ross comes to mind. This video was therapeutic for me coping with the disappointment of what was for a time my dream watch.
Grat examples Jory. Lol. I'm glad to see that my SKX has the same stats as that $8000.00 Panerai. Lol
Stats??
To be fair, the 5711 is also a non-hacking movement. But it is supremely decorated. Panerai/Richemont are just being silly now.
Panerai has many of the ingredients needed to be great - a cool/interesting history, a unique design language you can instantly spot across the room, name recognition etc. how do they keep finding ways to shoot themselves in the foot?
Trying to please too many people at the same time with complete over saturation. They now sell models that are 38mm, 40mm, 42mm, 44mm, 45mm, 47mm and 48mm. Movements range from garbage to beautiful micro rotors in constantly new case materials. It's too much, they need to get back to basics
I have to disagree on the decoration. With Panerai i want an undecorated movement, i want the raw feeling of a military timepiece.
But it should also go into the pricing..
then it should be a priced more like a Longine, less like a Rolex.
Next quarter headline.. Fake Panerai’s are now authentic Panerai’s
Love my PAM574, but this is an eye opener about the direction and state of the brand/house.
As soon as perez is mentioned, you know he is spitting the absolute truth.
Just got myself BLK Panerai Luminor BiTempo last month with see through movement and in love with it. I didn't know about these evolution movement, I just don't like buying close-up case.
Panerai is the only brand where I don't fault someone for owning a clone. As T3 stated, Panerai has even posted pirated watches instead of their own product. I'll happily buy one of any number of companies using similar designs, often with better quality movements (that hack!).
Honestly it’s kinda a joke how easy it is to fake a lot of simple Panerai’s.
I got a friend who exclusively wears top tier fake watches and his fake Panerai is hilariously accurate to mine.
Which is shame because it’a piss easy to tell the difference between my real glashutte original and his fake one.
A variation on Louis Rossman's, "you will own nothing and like it" except Panerai says, "you will accept less and like it".
Wait, Apple and Tesla already does that. Doh!
What Panerai becoming an Invicta?
Bead blasted flame fusioned NH35 version
For 6 value pays and a puppy on the dial.
Suddenly Richard Mille doesn't seem that bad.
I accept your point of view and your criticism but did you take the time to get intouch with Panerai themselves to ask them about the changes?You go onto a site to look at what another critic is saying but you did not call the company itself.Not saying what you said is wrong but at least it gives Panerai a chance to put their reasons across to you.
Panerai - profit interests over watch community interests. Especially by putting less effort in their production processes. In the long run I want a METAS Omega!
Update does not have to be an upgrade every time.
Technically they did an update but in a wrong direction 🤣, so downgrade.
I will not buy panerai watch, definitely.
Good episode TTT!
Yeah,
I bought a GS White Birch Spring drive... in the EvOlUtIoN 9 series. Maybe the evolution means something different in Italian...
coming from a rolex and Panny owner. I could care less about "hacking"
I buy watches mostly for aesthetics. My Pannys have the older ETA movement.
and like you said, may not be the most sophisticated. But they do look very nice in the open case back.
If a new panny has a look I like. I will still buy it. regardless of lack of hacking.
I don’t lust after Rolexes but their watches work and they continuously improve their products
bbbrrrooooo......my dresskx has hacking AND brushed finishing on the movement
Well... Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 was technically also an UPdate 💪😅🤣
Somewhere in the deep dark woods a third-class drunken blacksmith fires up his forge , beats the shit out of some old horseshoes and voila … there is a new Panarai movement.
If I want a thick and non refined watch I buy a Casio/G Shock. With the money I save I can pay plenty of stuff. Call me crazy...
Crazy you are not, Brett. That would have to be the most sane, level-headed comment I have read so far.
It's been backdated instead of updated
previous model PAM seems to be better than the newer updated model. But if you own the previous model, then you are safe.
A non-hacking movement would be a total deal breaker for me. Not just in an expensive watch, but any watch. wTF Panerai
Agree.
Rip Pateks and Vacherons for you
@@xx1j the problem is that they build and marketed the P9010 movement originally as hacking seconds but Panerai bait and switched to a downgraded version (while keeping the same movement designation) without telling anyone until it blew up in their faces.
Even the Zenith El primero movement's don't hack only the new El primero movement hacks that comes in the new Chronmaster hacks but on a chronograph a no hacking seconds doesn't bother me but on 3 hander watches I do like hacking seconds
Speed master
I heard about the cost cutting measures. The entry level Luminor model - starting at £4600, £400 extra if you want a small seconds - does not have a sandwich dial, no domed sapphire crystal, of course no exhibition case back, and is 100m water resistant instead of 300m.
The vintage Unitas/ETA movement was even COSC certified. They should do it like Rolex and really save on the box etc and put all the money into the watch.
I watched a video yesterday where the CEO was interviewed and suggested the next watches may have a Rolex movement.
I've never been a Panerai fan. First wear what you want. If you like Invicta, Micheal Koles, or Richard Milles, wear them. Who cares what other people think. For me, Panerai are so ugly and they all look the same. The shape of their case is too large and ugly. Numbers are too big. They have zero class to them. Like Omega, Rolex, Tudor, Seiko, Longines sport watches will look good while wearing a button down shirt. I dont see it with Panerai. Now apparently their quality sucks and they also posting counterfeit of their own watches on their social media. They are clearly badly run. They lied about in house movements. No hacking for multi thousand dollar watch. If you like Panerai, more power to you though.
Not to mention they're not as water resistant as they look.
I will keep my 2006 PAM 253 Flyback Regatta, favorite watch in my collection 👌🏼
Beltin’ watch that buddy and from a good era of PAMs imv 👍
This is very disappointing by them. Good on you for pointing these things out.
I just watched your video and I really enjoyed it! Your video was well-made, informative, and entertaining. I especially liked the way you explained the topic in a clear and concise way. I also appreciate the way you included relevant details in your video.
Overall, I thought your video was excellent! I would definitely recommend it to others who are interested in learning more about the topic.
Thanks for creating such a great video!
Sincerely.
PS: I outsourced this feedback to AI
The one Panerai I was interested in was the Panerai Luminor chronograph with the Zenith El primero movement from the early 2000s which doesn't hack only the new chronomaster El primero movement hacks which doesn't bother me on a chronograph but on a 3 hander I would like hacking mainly because I gotten used to it. I prefer solid case backs
i wasnt aware this watch existed, zenith is awesome
@@johnhatton730 Yes its definitely a hidden gem 💎. Panerai didn't make alot them but they do pop up. Yeah Zenith is 1 of my favorite watchmakers a Zenith tipo cp2 43mm black dial pilot watch might be my next watch. The Zenith El primero has such a great history 👏
Update means to bring something “to date”. Upgrade, in contrast, means to improve something. Careful with mixing up the meanings. Not the same.
He does not mix the terms, he explains both of them. However, he correctly says that in respect to a product, especially a luxury one, you think of an update as a better version. When Mercedes updates the C-class, you expect a better car than the previous one. If you upgrade from a C-class, you get an E-class.
The compagny is in search of high margin. Of course they are interested only by money and not watch making. But it is the same for swatch group, a lot of people buy this kind of watch to show their social status, they are not watch enthusiast and don't even know how mechanical watch works. If you really love the mechanical watch a good Seiko or even better an Orient already fill the gap. Ok if people with money and real watch fan buy a premium watch because they love the watch and not to show off or to make a speculative invest, I respect that.
I don't know if AP changed their movements, but I remember handling one that didn't hack about 5 years ago... I agree that the finishing is a downgrade but there's no function attached to that. The hacking doesn't really bother me but I guess there's no excuse for that other than cost-cutting. Continuously moving seconds does make it easier to change the time on the fly without having to reset the second hand... but I'm reaching there.
Happy Birthday Link the kittah!
Totally agree regarding the ridiculous Duo and its 30m water resistance. Wtf were they thinking about when they signed this off for production?
The new in-house movements are not good looking at all and not befitting of a display back imo. Totally unlike the highly modified and decorated ETAs which are gorgeous and mimic the original Rolex movements of the early 20th Century.
I love my now discontinued PAM183 Radiomir. It is a real classic and will never sell it, but most of the current lineup leaves me cold.
Come on Panerai, please get your act together.
When counterfeit watches looks better than the real one, to the point that the manufacturer post pictures of fakes rather than their own on Instagram, you know you have a major problem. 🤣
Update. Date = time. Upgrade. Grade is level/quality. Update is correct.
My PAM111 is a fake that was made by a friend. It has a Seagull 3600 movement and over the last several days is a +/- 0 seconds a day. How can you find fault in that?
update, new news on a product, an update. new functions on a product, an upgrade. That's how i see it Time Teller.
I've been contemplating adding a Panerai for some time. This has certainly given me food for thought. Thanks for the great video.
Pam000 all you need
Don’t listen to it. Get them on your wrist, feel, fit, aesthetics history etc that’s what you should base your choice on.
@@SiVispacemparabellum045modern history is part of the history. It’s a sht brand.
I love Panerai, well… old Panerai.
It’s a little bit sad to see them trying to swim upmarket but… in the wrong ways.
I wouldn’t have a problem with them charging JLC Money if they offered a JCL tier product. But they don’t - unfortunately.
I’d be interested to hear what you consider at be good PAMs.
Thanks
Owned a 111 a 000 and a carbotech. Traded them all for a SS Sub and a two tone DJ. Panerais only watch worth buying is the bronzo
.....I'm sure somewhere in the Orient, there's a warehouse full of old, unused 7S26's. Perhaps the folks at Panerai could tap into this for more, "updates". Also, I never thought I'd never hear, "explosive diarrhea" discussed in a watch review. Much thanks for working that in!
I love the Panerai watch design. Please help me. I cannot afford more than $2K on a watch.
Are there quality watches that come close to Panerai looks, that's not a fake?
Evolving doesn't imply improvement, only change, which may be subjectively good or bad.
Got excited by the recent Panerai 40mm .... and thanks to your video, I am staying away from Panerai.
i think hacking is overrated, want syncro precision use your phone, or get a quartz, even the best cosc watches would be runing +2-2 by the night.
the decor has no excuse
The Perezscope stuff is brilliantly researched but has anyone asked why he has such an agenda against one brand? I purchased a Panerai timeline print off him a while back and since then he has made a number of claims about Panerai.
If you look at his older articles, he has written one about his own Panerai, a PAM127 and he loves that watch (so do I). Have you seen the movement in that watch? Its a modified ETA movement adjusted to look like an old Rolex movement and Jose hailed this. What has changed his opinion since then? Is it possible that there is an access issue with Richemont and that Jose no longer has access to the brand which has P'd him off? I have to be honest, it has P'd me off that he has taken my money for a timeline and is now saying that Panerai were basically just Rolex watches, completely changing the story of the timeline that he has made money producing.
He has written articles on panerai using Valfleurier movements and at the very bottom of an article, he mentioned that IWC and Cartier also use these base calibres. Why so much focus on one brand when it's clearly a Richemont cost cutting and parts supply thing.
I purchased a Luminor in 2018 for 500usd more expensive than breitling charge for a plastic, quartz watch. Why is there no Perezcope focus on Breitlings blatant rip off? How about Cartier, why are there no questions of a Quartz tank that requiring daylight to charge its battery despite costing thousands?
Panerai have not covered themselves in glory and I am not a fan of modern Panerai pricing for what they are but there is an agenda here that I bet will come out soon. In the meantime, I will admire my now questionable timeline!
Well, if you read his blog, it’s obvious that he is into Panerai in general, so he focuses on what he knows best.
So they updated to the 7s26?
I was recently on the fence of buying a Panerai but with all this nonsense going on I have really gotten turned off from the brand and not to mention the horrible bezel wiggling on the submersible see your terrific video I was in shock.
Thank goodness Panarai sucks because there’s already way too many watches I want to buy…
UPDATE as in bringing something up to date, which should mean going from older to newer functionality. Presumably better since it's newer.
Got four of them and love them
Junk
Great video, thank you. Knew nothing about this. Only knew of removing sandwich dials from lower priced models. That alone turned me off. This? UGH!
It's such a shame. I love the look of the Panerai watches, but there's too many reasons not to buy one. :(
Upgrade is to make better but update can easily be confused as an upgrade but in truth, update is to update to the here and now policy/procedure or this is whats happening now. Example would be a news channel "update" a hurricane news story from a category level 4 to a 3. The hurricane has been downgraded to a level 3 but the news "update" is to tell you about the downgrade. Manufacturing uses this as a play on words. They make you think you're getting and upgrade but really only getting an update to their procedures.
I am a habitual impulse buyer and last year on a lunch break from New York Comic-Con, I almost burned my Rolex fund on a white dial Panerai Luminor Submersible 42mm at retail price. I am very glad I did not pull the trigger. The display model had the bezel wobble and rattle on the z-axis and when I pointed it out to the salesperson, she denied there was any issue. There was an audible click of the bezel hitting the case when I tapped it. It is still a beautiful watch but that experience soured me on the brand.
I was considering buying a new Panerai, because I like the design and now I am in doubt.
I used to love the unique look of Panerai
most people would be genuinely shocked at how little Paneristi care about this. As someone that owns 2, it doesn't bug me much but the models I own hack and I'm not interested in any of the new offerings
A true Paneristi probably has one of the higher end models.
Vacheron Constantin Overseas - no hacking. Do you still care about hacking in Panerai? :)
Even the Patek Philippe Nautilus doesn't hack only the current Nautilus even of PP chronographs don't hack it really doesn't bother me on a chronograph but on 3 hand watches I do like hacking. Probably because I got used to it
Same like Pamela Anderson. Used to be hot. Once overdone, it called Pamerai per person.
Thanks for the heads up, I was interested in one as a daily. Didn't realize they had "ETA" movements. Also, why do you use that siren in the background? Each time I thought my car alarm was going off lol
At this point a non hacking movement is probably harder for the replica manufacturers to source than a hacking one. Maybe they are trying to do something about the fakes?
Give them time and they may even evolve into a Seiko 5.
These watches are sadly no longer aimed at the watch enthusiast rather just a person who wants to buy something because it’s expensive, the average buyer doesn’t even know what “hacking” is. We watch geeks need to stick to the older real Panerais!
Amen to that the Radiomir is a great watch ⌚