My take on Panerai: I am a huge fan of their Mid-Century design and think that their sizes could be explored greatly. I picture the success of the Tudor BB58 (Gilt) and how these classic designs from Panerai could be implemented in the same way... What is your take on Panerai as a brand? Could we see these models make a comeback into fashion again?
I figure it's also worth mentioning that your video here was well thought out, and intrinsically right about things. Though that said, my 8 and a half inch wrists love the 45mm.
Well I loved your render of the 36mm Luminor, but they did make a Luminor Marina 40mm that recently came out. I have to say it fit my 6 1/2" wrist pretty well. I love all of their materials as well....but like you say...the prices do seem rather high compared to what you can get from Omega or Tudor. If they were 5K this would probably solve their "problem". I just don't see this base model being $7200
@@MisterKnightly And Panerai will always cater to the big wristed ;) Thank you so much Phil, especially for taking the time out of your day to watch the clip.
@@michaelfierman3256 There have been so many great suggestions in the comments about things like less decorated movements and fitting them with solid backs (that'll cut their costs a lot) But it looks like they're going in the smaller scale direction slowly! The Due and now these 40mm examples. Also wish they'd halve the prices of these pieces... ultimately selling more and in the long run making a lot more money. Maybe, just maybe there will be hope for us slim wristed enthusiasts one day ;) Thanks as always Michael!
The moment you described the watch as large, a little ugly and old fashioned I realized why I love them so much. Because the same definition can be made of me. On top of which, having a Panerai tends to annoy certain types, and that's a bonus to me.
And in many ways that niche of people that they've always attracted will always love them for that reason. Maybe it's a great thing that they aren't "popular". It allows the enthusiasts to enjoy them even more (and keeps the riffraff out) ;)
I’m a proud Paneristi and I enjoy my 44mm manual wind 8 day power reserve Luminor every time I open my safe and put it on my wrist. I always had a thing for the underdog and I love the way they don’t follow the trends. That being said I prefer the older models over the modern interpretations. Panerai to me should give me a vintage vibe. I don’t know why but often I wake up and just decide it’s not going to be a Rolex or Omega day but a Panerai day. Loved the video and your opinion on the brand.
Thank you for sharing Maarten! Ah, I keep imagining the BB58 Gilt and what Panerai could do to shine them up. I also feel the same way that they need to bring across the "old world" feel of watchmaking. And funny, looking back at the clip, it begins with the archive footage and slowly works its way to the modern pieces with ceramic bezels etc etc. Love the classic look of these pieces...
@@ID-Guy thank you for you informative video. I like that there is no loud music blaring and not screaming (as some watch video commentators seem to feel compelled to do). You also get to the point. Again, some others just drone on. A quick note about Girard-Perregaux and their cushion case watches. 38 mm. What …? GP makes cushion cased watches. They used to. 2001 Was the last time they did. In very limited quantities. Google “Girard-Perregaux ref 2498” 2598, 2499, 9012. The 2598 won watch of the year in japan 1999.
The base models with simple ETA movements need to come down in price. They can even be simplified with less movement finish and a solid caseback. Start offering them in 40mm or 42mm (reduced size) as well and keep the original sizes in low production runs every year. Then start marketing online and events using their military history.
Great point about the finishing and solid backs Chase (no idea why they don't do this to save themselves the hassle) There is so much opportunity here for them to expand on these classic designs and play around with their sizes. Who knows, maybe with enough feedback on a video like this we'll see a change!
I was exited when they came out with 40mm versions, but they have downgrated the movements and even the caseback is snapon but made to look screwed. They are making all the wrong moves.
I love my Radiomir and Luminor 8 day manual wind. The design aesthetic is so iconic, and outside a submariner , one of the watches that you can identify from across the room.
@@ID-Guy agreed. I'm more than happy with my "denim dial" Railmaster, but I'd considered a PAM01314 before that. Richemont really lost people's trust with their shady approaches, sadly. It makes me wonder about the other brands that live under their umbrella.
Why Panerai today sucks: 1) quality of movement, even lack of hacking 2) quality of finishing. It only finishes on places that can be seen. 3) deproving its pieces, lack of WR, lack of hacking 4) not having a modern use aside from being worn by celebs, Rolex/omega always worn for professional use, submersibles are a joke 5) not offering smaller variants before other Brands do it for them
Great stuff. I don’t mind the big look of Paneria, it’s in the DNA, but my wrist simply cannot handle the 44mm standard size. It’s all proportions. A smaller Panerai would still retain the oversized look on my wrist but allow it to be manageable.
Great to see you Rich! I fully agree. It's not about changing anything about the design, keeping everything the same and just tweak the scale. Damn, I just think of a 36mm explorer sized model with crown guards, huge crystal et al. Super elegant and refined but also rugged AND would be on the wrist 24/7 no problem ;) Hope you're well brother!
Love the panerai..the design is wonderfully simple. And let’s be honest, the average watch buyer these days is more interested in a submariner at 2x retail…
Without a doubt Richemont has allowed Panerai to do some profoundly stupid things that have hurt the rep over the past 10 years or so. Almost scandalous. I also wonder why the 44mm Luminors are losing functionality, not hacking any longer. Or why the Due comes in with 30m water resistance. Things that just make very little sense. That said, I love the brand. I have the better part of a dozen Panerai. I definitely do not agree that they should downsize the collection. Add some 42mm and even 40mm, sure. I have no problem with smaller stature folks feeling that watches are more approachable. In fact, just this week I decided to get my girlfriend a 40mm Luminor so I can admire it on her wrist. She would never be able to pull off the standard sizing, just as I would never be able to pull off a 40mm. It should not be a choice for the brand though. There would be very little added cost to make a 40mm and 44mm Luminor or several variation of any size. I often wonder why more brands don't do it. There are a lot of watches not in my collection for no other reason than that they would look comically small on me. I am tall and can find my way to the weight section at the gym, but by no means likely to be mistaken for a bodybuilder. With a larger overall size, and 7.5" wrists, the 44mm Luminor is perfect for me. Also the 45mm Radiomirs. I have 47mm solid lug Luminor and Panerai in the collection. I can physically pull them off, but when deciding to strap them on in the morning, I have to be in the mood for a "big watch day". I love them, but not all the time, and not for just any occasion. As far as dabbling in completely new styles... not so much. Should Panerai come out with an homage to the Genta-inspired sports watches that the likes of AP or Patek make? No way. Should they make a thin dress watch? Another Rolex homage? There are tons of watch companies staking out that space. Panerai should stick to what they are known for and continue to make it well. Some variations within that line would be welcome. Don't they have a minute repeater now in Luminor case? They've done tourbillons in the past. Keep doing what made you great.
i am not sure what you're prattling on about the smaller sizes is. They make several 40mm luminors. I have an old one ... I think it's PAM48. Just a scaled-down version of the bigger ones. But I think I like my regular 44mm one more even if it's a bit oafish.
Couldn't agree more. I love Panerai but they just made too many models, and not to mention I've seen some high end knock offs have better quality than the genuine.
Given Panerai's history with their watches used in World War II I would think they'd market off that history like Omega did (General Omar Bradley visited their factory), but they remain niche, I can't help thinking it's in part what you're saying about the designs, and yes for what they are on paper spec wise, the prices are just insane. Look at what Doxa has done to scale down their models, like the sub 200 that is a nod to the original 11804, predating the Sub 300 with HE valve that Jacques Cousteau and his team wore, but historically important, and wearable as a daily by almost anyone. I like Panerai, but not enough to buy one or even consider saving for one at the price for what it is. It's almost as if they're happy with their static location, position and meaning in the market, which I suppose is fine but it limits their appeal and potential customer base.
Isn't it a crazy thing to think that a large majority who look to these watches and find them appealing cannot justify owning them because they are too large? I just think of a model like the Tudor BB58 (Gilt) and how these OG Submersibles could fit into that niche so nicely as a daily wearer if they were just shrunken down. Maybe it's just me? ;) Thanks as always for sharing AK!
@@mkii2363 Thanks, I did not realize that about Panerai. The same is true of IWC, Stowa and Laco and the Luftwaffe. Those brands have completely different ownership today and now have nothing to do with the Nazis, but yeah they wouldn't acknowledge something so terrible.
From what I see today, many watch brands celebrate their WW2 military history...even Seiko celebrate the Willard in its use during the Vietnam war and didn't Casio also bring out a 'Desert Storm' for the illegal war in Iraq....so to single out Panerai for using their military connection during WW2 is a tad ingenuous don't you think?.On another note I have 3 Panerai models and a medium wrist and yes....I agree with ID Guy they would all be better at 39mm or 40 max
@@mkii2363 .....you did in your initial post to which I replied.But let's face it one could allegedly tie Nazi connections to most of the French fashion houses(Vuitton,Dior etc)..Hugo Boss and his Nazi youth ties,the Dutch with Heineken and the Swedes and Swiss who were supposedly neutral.A lot of people made a lot of money from WW2 and not just Panerai.Have a good day.
Not to mention that a smaller size watch would attract a wider demographic base: Asians, women, including for more dressy occasions. Otherwise the watch as it is, is kind of limited to rugged casual
I own 4 panerai, 2 luminor of 44 and 2 radiomir of 45. the last taken is the 914, wonderful design, 300mt WR, as a modern panerai should be. Panerai has made many mistakes in recent years, but it seems that today it has taken the right path, making the 40mm models, but it should not lose its identity by removing the 44 and 47 models.
@@missakhaladjian the 1312 is one of the best-selling Panerai. but also the radiomir origin or the 992 are to be evaluated. in short, they are to try and feel how they suit you good choice
Agree. I like Panerai, however with my small wrist they are too big for my wrist. Unfortunately, the "ladies" models that still have the crown guard, only has 30 meters of water resistance. What is the point of the crown guard then, apart from Panerai design.
For any of these supposed divers to have 30m WR is pretty hilarious. It's been one of the most controversial things surrounding the smaller cases of these Panerai pieces. And the crown guard is probably all cosmetic and nothing else haha!
Well said!! So much potential to have an appeal to a whole new audience. There’s so much class and 50’s chic with theses watches that if they only reduced the size and increased the WR, the market would beg for these.
But they already make 38mm, 40mm and 42mm models. Lots of options if you don’t want 44mm or 46mm. Just look at their website. When I bought my first Panerai 15 years ago, even then they offered a verity of 40mm versions. I don’t understand this video at all.
Until their watches come down in price, they will never be on my radar no matter what size they offer. I will admit to being a cheap sake but when you can buy two Tudors for one Panerai, it seems to me their pricing needs to come down.
I actually discovered panerai through their ww2 history. I always really wanted the SLC, but theres just no way at all for me to wear a 47mm watch which is such a shame. So unless the impossible happens and panerai decides to scale back their sizes a bit, ill have to stick to admiring it from afar.
That classic stick dial with dots. I was actually admiring them the other night. Love the simplicity and how it works with the wire lugs on the case. But 47mm's... It's like if IWC were still making 55mm Flieger watches for commercial use ;)
You also have to consider the lug to lug distance when assessing how a watch will fit. I've owned the 425, and will be re-acquiring it at some point this year. The wire lugs give it a lug to lug of just over 50mm. That is right around my 43mm Sea Dweller. Yes, you will get more dial real estate, but it won't over hand the wrist.
1997, Florence, Italy on my honeymoon and I see a guy wearing a watch. "Where did you get that!?" I asked. I'd never seen one. Straight over the Pontevecchio bridge I went to the boutique. If I told you what I paid then prior to the takeovers, you'd faint. Hint: Less than 1k US. Call it a wedding present from my wife. I've been offered a lot for it but it's not for sale (not as long as my wife is around, anyway). ;)
Like so many others, my introduction to Panerai came from seeing one on Sly Stallone's wrist. Looking at its trademark cushion case and crown guards I thought, "What the hell are those?" 😄 Unfortunately I've never seen a Panerai up close in the metal; would love to put one on wrist. Design-wise I've grown to like and appreciate their style and function (especially the crown guards), but I'm also put off by their size. I can wear a beefy 43-47 mm watch, no problem. Question is do I WANT to wear a 43-47 mm watch? No. But isn't the draw of a Panerai its size, especially when Hollywood heavyweights (literally speaking) like Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson can be seen sporting one on their massive wrists? If Panerai is pushing their brand to be likened with big-name action stars--to be associated with high status and luxury--then I don't see them producing sub-40 mm models anytime soon. Great vid as always 👍. Hopefully "Expendables 4" will be made and we can see more Panerai onscreen ('cuz you won't see them much in the wild 😅). Cheers 🍺
Your points are always so fresh brother. Absolutely, if some makers like Rolex choose polish, others choose tiff blue and others opt for size to make their watches noticeable / recognisable... It's all about laws of attraction ;)
The 42mm Radiomir that came out a few years ago, which wears fairly small and is dainty by Panerai standards, now sells preowned at a hefty premium. They’re leaving so much money on the table by targeting gorilla wristed dudes
I agree that Panerai’s need to be smaller. But 36mm might be going a bit too far IMO, for a Panerai anyway. My favorite watch size is 38mm. But bringing them down to 40mm would be ideal. But then sub 40mm might work for a separate line at Panerai, as British brand Fears make similar shaped Tonneau cased watches, and at my perfect 38mm diameter too! Yet they look very well proportioned. Panerai’s without their trademark crown guard mechanism (which might be too bulky visually on a sub 40mm watch) could work I think.
I can see why Paneri makes their watches so big. It’s the same reason why Rolex engraves their name on every flat surface. It’s their branding and so the wearer can draw attention to themselves. Sadly, watches have become a fashion accessory and not a tool.
Went to a Panarai Store to look at the Carbotech and my Girlfriend said, "You already have that watch" She was referring to my $100 GA 2100. $15,000+ for a CarboTech or $100 for a Gshock to the General Public they look the same. There quality has also diminished check out the video, "Why I'll (Probably) Never Buy Another Panerai!" by the Time Teller to learn more. I love the Titanium / Steel Panerais and have been very close to buying some of them. The only thing that holds me back is their size... its just not reasonable for daily wear. I love the explorer comparison if they made Panerais comfortable like the explorer they would sell out!!! I would be first in line for a hardcore Panerai in a comfort size.
Always listen to a girlfriends POV on watches. Ladies never sugarcoat it and say it as it is (really refreshing for us) ;) Thank you for sharing Joshua!
Interesting video. I recently got a Luminor Quaranta and I’m extremely happy with my purchase. It wears really well on my 6.5 inch wrist, feels great. I genuinely like the cushion case and how it wears. I’m a bit iffy on the movement though. Having said that I really like it. They are slowly and steadily decreasing the sizes (40=quaranta and they have a Due Piccolo at 38). I don’t really follow trends and mostly just get the stuff I like, so I guess if there are others as blissfully ignorant as me, then congrats! You just bought an amazing watch that I’m sure you’ll enjoy wearing for a long time ahaha. Cheers mate, great video as always 👍🏼
These new Quaranta's and the latest Submersibles are definitely going in the right direction! And thank you for sharing. The movements in these machines (like many) we all seem to be asking for more love and attention put into them but hey! Solid watch, an icon, with an amazing story. And thank you for sharing!
Watches were smaller in the 90's when they use to call these hockey pucks. They were famous for being big and bold. They weren't following the trend. Why should they start now?
36mm does seem small BUT I have a strong feeling for the cushion case they use it'll have massive presence even for that size. It would be great but hey, it's a pipe dream ;)
Are you more of a fan of the classic wire lugs or the thickers lugs that came in later? Love them too Karl and thank you!! Hope you're doing incredibly well sir!
I was of the view that Panerai's were too big. I then attended a Panerai event at the invitation of my AD for the free food. I left that event wearing a 42 mm Submersible PAM00959. The 42 is a great size. Diving into their materials, I then bought a 42 mm Submersible Carbotech PAM00960. I went to another Panerai introduction and my wife fell in love with the 38 mm Luminor Due PAM01280. She loves wearing it. Ok, it's only 3 bar, but she wasn't looking for a dive watch, she was looking for the aesthetic. Panerai offers a wide variety of watches that are smaller than 44mm.
I love these short informative videos like you used to do in the beginning. I have to admit you lost me for a while with those two and three hour conversational videos where you flip through watches on the computer.
Those livestreams will come back better than ever one day (on a new channel) with proper camera setups and all sorts but this page has always been about reviews and discussions first ;) And thank you for taking the time to watch these clips!
It's always been a hard sell for the brand I reckon. How can you keep a near 100 year old design relevant? On one hand it's awesome seeing that they're sticking to it and have made some amazing "greatest hits" models BUT repetition has its price. Well said Victor.
For me, I can’t wear small watches. I have a 8”+ wrist, 6’6 frame at about 285lbs. I recently tried on a panda Daytona and it looked dainty on my wrist. I have a PAM 422 bc I love the aesthetics of the 1950 cushion case, the sandwich dial, the rear power reserve as not to clutter the dial and the iconic second hand (with zero reset no less) at 9 with an in-house Panerai movement. I’ve had it since 2015 and love how I can completely change its look with different straps. I also like it as it goes well in the collection with my DSSD - I love the shared history with Rolex and Panerai too.
I’ve walked through the streets of Aspen, CO and struck up a conversation with other men wearing Panerai and it’s great to be part of the club. The latest Navy Seal watches are amazing. I get complete strangers asking about the watch. The first time I ever viewed the Panerai was during travel back to England from my new home in the U.S. and instantly set my sight on buying one. I now wear Rolex, IWC and Panerai and love them all. It great to see the 44mm submersible 👍👍
I’ve just bought a new 40mm luminor, after ignoring Panerai since 2007. Carbon case, open caseback, 300m WR. It’s the perfect Panerai for current market. They will sell a shitload of these I feel. 40mm now available in both Radiomir and Luminor, and now also with gold and carbon, as well as steel
I have always admired Panerai because of their amazing history and the absolute ruggedness of some of their models but like so many watch brands that started out making tool watches, they seem to have lost their way. Maybe the business model is inevitable to remain successful but it’s always a shame in my eyes when brands like Panerai, Rolex, etc… leave their beginnings and drift towards luxury watches. Sadly, as prices go up, they put themselves out of the reach of so many that appreciate their design and quality. You’re right about Panerai’s potential and yes I want them to succeed more than anything too! Let’s hope for the best. Thanks for another fantastic video. Have a great weekend my friend 🥃
I love my Panerai. That said; I wear my 2001 Omega Seamaster more. And for everyday, nothing is more comfortable than my Tag Heuer Aqua Racer for bumming around town. But going out to dinner… the Panerai is my go to.
Panerai has just begun! Making their own movements and each Panerai is actually tested to 200m they just guarantee it to dictated depth they also crash test them, torture test them before and after casing up. These are the most torture tested mechanical luxury watches in the industry. You should check out the factory tour in 3 parts. You'll probably learn a lot instead of talking 😂out of your arse.
I struggle to understand how the models without timing bezels can be called "dive watches" with a straight face. I get it 90 years ago when the concept was new (and the use case was perhaps more focused on the time one blew something up, than how long youve been down?), but not today and certainly not since Omega, Doxa, Rolex etc. donned the wrist of the likes of Jaques Cousteau and served their purpose -letting one know how long they've been under water. And dont get me wrong Paneristi, i do think many of them are beautiful, they just seem to be mislabelled somehow.
I bought my PAM00736 * BECAUSE * of it's 47mm case, not in spite of it. But I can pull it off with my 8-inch/20cm wrist. If you've got the wrist, it's got the presence!
The watch is too big - Yes The watch is old fashioned - No Panerai with a case size of 36 mm would be amazing. I think that the Longines Legend Diver 36mm and the Seiko Mini Turtle look better than their larger versions. The smaller watches look more elegant and have a huge market potential. The Longines Legend Diver 36mm version is listed as a bestseller on the Longines website. Maybe Panerai can learn something from this.
Not to sound arrogant but the following comment I’m about to make is true surprising and has not been brought up. I lived in New York City for 25 years and anyone who was anyone in terms of having money would wear it on their wrist. Rolex, AP, Panerai, Breitling, IWC, etc. etc. etc. Our society now for whatever reason Wealthy guys don’t care about watches. They just don’t. They could have a Canali suit and wear it with a $400 Apple Watch. That would’ve never happened in 2005 in New York City. It’s a different Arun now. There are a lot of people that can afford an AP Royal Oak, offshore or Rolex steel Daytona, ceramic or even an expensive Panerai. But again in 2023 wealth is more stealth. That’s just the truth. Instead of a G wagon a lot of people are driving, land, cruisers, and Yukon. Crazy but all true. And PS I love the brand and have many watches and enjoy your video contacts and thank you.
A long time back in 2007, when I was a novice person in the watch world, I saw Panerai on the wrist of my colleague in New York City. I was amazed at its simple but rugged military design. While I never bought one because it was "expensive" for me then, I realized that it was a great brand and had a history, which I admired. Several years forward, I heard somewhere that the quality of Panerai watches came down and they are no longer water and shockproof. So ultimately I was put off by the fact that there were quality issues especially because they have a diver's heritage. How can such a watch can have waterproof-related issues? I still admire their design but the size and possible quality issues keep me away from buying them.
I bought a PAM00051 because it was a manageable 40mm case. While Stallone and Schwarzenegger can pull off a large case model, most people don't want an oversized watch.
Terrific video and great comment on one of the great watch brands of our times. You're South African by birth? I owned two Panerai's and had them for many years but in the end I simply grew bored with them and in truth, I am not sure why. The brand lost its appeal and I found myself moving back to the Rolex, Omega watches I had had for longer in my collection and in the end I sold them both to explore new brands that for me, offer far more appeal.
I had a Panerai bought for me a couple of years ago..It was too big so I took it back and got an Omega Railmaster instead..I know they offer an 38mmm model I belive?
Ah, it's never a bad day with an Omega on the wrist ;) And you're right Tomaz, they call it the "Due" but there was a lot to be left desired with the models (like WR etc) I try to imagine a BB58 Gilt and what Panerai could do to match that kind of scale and design. It would be a thing of beauty! ;)
Fair points. I know this is an older video, but they make the Radiomir down to 38, Luminor down to 40, and Submersible down to 42mm. This is all up to taste, but I have a 17cm wrist and am somewhat thin. I tried on the 44mm Submersible and it was too small to be big and too big to be small. Kind of an awkward size for me. I went with the 47mm. It’s huge. But that is part of the design. I like small watches too. Also have a BB54, which I absolutely love because it is small. The design works really well at that size. Both are such cool pieces to me.
I love Panerai brand and design, it is timeless..!!! But the problem starts with the pricing strategy and its reliability/quality and value perception... It is a italian brand that is pround to label itself as swiss made... why? The basic model starts at $8k... It is not a consistent brand and transparency is far away to be one of the values of the brand... This is why it is hard to value to value this brand... except its design...
Had two of them, the 177 and 610. The 177 was almost wearable with my small wrist. Sold the watches but still love them and miss them. Such a great design and fun thing. Just with for a steel Luminor Logo at 40mm with 300m water resistance. I would directly buy one.
It's great to see so many enthusiasts clamouring for the same thing! Maybe, just maybe the more we ask we might be rewarded. And thank you Theo! It's so awesome reading about enthusiasts accounts.
I rode the panerai wave on paneristi, the good and the bad. I'm 6'6" tall, so I have owned 44s, 47s and 42s. I will say imo for day-to-day wear 47mm is too big, even for a guy my size. I like the 44 but I find the 42 sub is the sweetest spot of all, for something wearable and easy to use every day. The 44s have their place, but I sort of agree that a smaller size would be better... 40mm for sure. The biggest complaint I've seen among WIS' is that the watches are too big. If Panerai wants to grow, offering all types of cases at 40-42mm would make them a LOT more cash.
Owned a Luminor Marina manual and a Power Reserve automatic almost 20 years ago sold them to buy an Audi TT…I looked ‘on the other side’ 😁 collecting Rolex for years….Yeaterday I could not resist and went a ahead purchasing a Luminor 1950 GMT 3days with Power Reserve in its back….such a beauty!!! Once you go Panerai …. Sempre ne comprerai !!!
i have a pam 0074 and its a 40mm with a zenith movement. bought it 23 years ago and its still going. Looks great on the wrist & the size makes it stand out
Panerai does more or less EXACTLY what Rolex does. They don't change. The difference is, I guess, just a stigma about the movements they use (and possible QC concerns? Or did I make that up). Even still, many can justify "overpaying" for a fundamentally frivolous material good that appeals to them.
If they keep them in the 40-42mm size, with an occasional 44-45mm, that would work, for me anyway. Their older 40mm version have some appeal to those of us with more slender wrists. Great video as always @IDGuy. ⌚️👍🌲🏔🥃🎸🍷
There's quite a few 40mm Panerai so wheres the problem? They can't all be new models. My issue with them is the price they want for models with an off-the-shelf movement. It's insane.
Ths video is a bit strange. Panerai makes many smaller watches today. On their website right now there are 13 Luminor models that are 42mm wide, and one 40mm. The Radiomir line has four 42mm models and five 40mm. This is far from big for a tool watch. The Luminor Due series has many more. The problem with Panerai is 1) That they are quite distinct in their design, so will not be "evergreens", 2) As you say, they have alienated their customer base with 'silly' fashion watches that are barely waterproof despite being marketed as 'diver style' watches that have 'crown guards' to handle the pressure of the deep, 3) All the stories of poor build quality and deceitful marketing (e.g. claiming ETA movements were 'in house'), and 4) Severely bloated prices for what you get.
I love the simplicity of Panerai. I won a 422. Yes it’s a 47mm and yes it not going to appeal to a broad audience. But I don’t care. Th rose gold hands, the cushion case, the contours of the cushion case, the history & the originality of it. It makes me smile when I wear it. I own a Rolex dive watch too and the intertwined shared history of the two make them extra special. Not an Panerai fanboy, but def appreciate the history and the uniqueness of the piece. Will always have it and never sell it
Are we forgetting they cased an unfinished movement in a special edition watch and got exposed? This was right after U-Boat got caught doing the same with low grade ETA calibers in their watches. It was all over Watchuseek. I have an Omega PO XL and at 6'1 and 220 lbs, I can barely pull it off. I'd need a custom shirt sleeve to get the Panerai to fit and it would still be too big for a suit. I don't wear my PO XL with a dress shirt. I have a few Omega 300 SMPs that fit under a dress shirt sleeve nicely at 41mm.
With respect, I don't think the case size is the real problem. The problem with Panerai is their cost-cutting and greed. They are so profit oriented they don't listen to their customers. Every single watch they produce today misses the DNA mark by at least one feature. It's not rocket science... Just rerelease the PAM 111 in a few sizes, colours and materials with COSC level accuracy (anti magnetism is also important). They must be true to the Panerai DNA: 300m water resistance, sandwich dial (avoid faux patina lume), screwed pin bars, no date and the traditional crown guard. Panerai should also help value retention of their watches by offering an authentication service for used Panerai. Panerai need to sacrifice some profit per unit to increase sales and make more money overall. Panerai is a case study in how cost-cutting your product will kill your brand... Especially in the age of the Internet and the free flow of critical information to potential consumers.
Fully support your views on panerai, being a new owner of one after lusting after one for so many years and being conned via good marketing I find myself a little glum after reading and hearing the shady practices that are going on specifically on the movements in the latest gens. I fear the new ceo, whilst talking wonderful rhetoric and waxing lyrical on new materials, saving the planet et al, he/they seem to be ignoring the loyal base and at the same time refusing to acknowledge or listen to potential new collectors. See how they go in the next few years.
Couldn't agree more. Great brand, and their pursuit of new materials is admirable. But more and more, oversized is not equal to masculinity, and proper ergonomics is not equal to femininity. Get with the programme, Panerai. It's already 2022.
Downsizing to 36mm is too small for the navy and diver style that the brand is all about. 40mm would be a good, solid compromise. Panerai should be looking to also decorate its movements more (i.e. its in-house movement), maintaining a minimum of 100-200M WR for all of its watches, and focusing on the engineering evolution and improvements of its watches.
100% agree...the quadantra are a way forward but the downgraded movements and the case back issue score an old goal. So much potential but a ceo that won't listen to his customer base.
Great video. I have a Rolex Submariner & a Omega 42m Seamaster 300 blue definitely adding a Pam next to my watch collection love the 44m or 47m Panerai look different to other watch brands out there
I used to own a luminor. Its my favorite case design of all time. However, the brand is WAY overpriced given their movements are average at best. I ended up trading it after realizing i care a lot about movement reliability.
The problem is not just with Panerai but Swiss Made watches in general. They are making watches no one needs and no one can afford except for collectors. How many common folk can today buy a Swiss watch? People opt for Seiko, Citizen, G Shock. Other brands.
IMHO, the fixation on the size is rather barking up the wrong tree. If one had been actively collecting watches back in the late 90s and especially during the first decade of the new millennium, one would have known with absolutely certainty that one of the main trends and bragging right of the day during that period was in-house movements. For serious watch collectors and enthusiasts, to be paying the kind of money that Panerai were selling for and still had to settle for ETAs was just unvarnished money grab, regardless of Panerai’s storied past. Another brand that went off the rails during their best decade (or two) at the time was Franck Mueller. On the back of the watchmaker’s very impressive elite complication creations, the man thought he could pimp out with impunity. And pimp out he did, with Salvador Dali pretensions without the substantive content to match (for the non complication models that were rolling off the assembly lines like they were making fertilisers). In both cases, it was sheer greed and disrespect for their paying clients. Franck Mueller in particular deserves to be buried for good and never to be heard of again. For any money one would throw at a Franck Mueller bling, I would take an F.P. Journe anyday.
I think all the panerai advice is nonsense. I spent a week in Vegas watch shopping with a friend lately. I saw more panerai on wrists then anything. We tried every watch on we could from every brand of interests. From jager lacoultre to Cartier to breitling to zenith and ended right back at panerai. After trying on the weird 40mm and subs in 42mm everyone agreed the larger panerai is spot on for its design. It wears incredible at 44mm and the 47 was nice too. This brand is the best thing going currently. Period. The small watch craze is a farce. Watch retailers and manufacturers and their whorde of influencers push it because their major demographic is small Asian men in the east with tiny wrists. Hence they want to use less material, sell at high prices, and market to Asia. Western men like watches in 41mm and up…..period.
I don't understand this weird obsession with wrist size in relation to watches. Are we that vain that we wouldn't buy a watch for fear others might think it's too big. FFS get over it and buy what you like. My Wife is tiny and wears a massive Casio G shock because she likes all of its functions, and guess what. NO ONE CARES.
Good tempo and a frank attitude are very commendable. Liked the video. At the same time, if I may, I might say that maybe (again, maybe, as I not a designer in any shape or form) the very combination of the last century design, a spartan dial and the size, is what makes those watches look masculine. Compress them to a smaller size and the magic would be gone... The watch comes form the military divers, who are the real hardcore warriors, thus making this watch smaller, will "neuter" these watches, and detach them form their history. IMHO. Cheers!
Just manufacture and sell each of the top historic models in multiple sizes: 34mm, 36mm, 40mm, etc...I think they'd find that women, men, literally everyone would be more interested if these watches came in multiple sizes.
They are beautiful...but still I think rather overpriced and based on others who have been duped, ti's tough to justify now paying the price they want. But damn it's so clean but modern and lume...the lume...
i love these huge watches at 44-47mm, keep them large and charming never go small, if things go well i might buy 4 panerai watches at the end of this year
The best watch case they make is one no one ever talks about, the 1940 42mm case in the Pam 512 and 574. They everything you want. Sandwich dial. Sub secs. Manual Wind. 100m water resistance. Thin enough for anyone. After two years of period research I pulled the trigger on a perfect pam512 and just love it.
So damn gorgeous. I love the square shoulder Radiomirs! Huge congratulations for picking it up after all those years of research man... it makes the experience all the sweeter. And now I'm definitely going to be looking at them this evening...
Being part of the Richemont group is certainly a blessing for some watch manufacturers, for others it is a curse. It would have been better for Panerai watches to be independent, such as Rolex. The Richemont Group decides everything that has to do with Panerai. That's why Panerai is just a name, a shadow of something that doesn't exist anymore, nothing more. The great story behind it is only an excuse. That's why Panerai only gives me a stale aftertaste.
Instead of concentrating on exotic materials, they need more dial colors, and finishes. Way too many black dials. Some additional hand set styles. More stainless steel bracelets. More display case backs, and expose more of the movement. The newer style of having large plate sections hiding the gears and other mechanical features hides the beauty of the movement, a step backwards (which is spreading across the industry). And lower price options.
I have seen a few very interesting combinations with a 3 link construction, maybe it's just me but those squared off lugs with bracelets look peculiar. Amazing to think how all those names you've mentioned have nailed bracelets on their models.
My take on Panerai: I am a huge fan of their Mid-Century design and think that their sizes could be explored greatly.
I picture the success of the Tudor BB58 (Gilt) and how these classic designs from Panerai could be implemented in the same way...
What is your take on Panerai as a brand? Could we see these models make a comeback into fashion again?
I figure it's also worth mentioning that your video here was well thought out, and intrinsically right about things.
Though that said, my 8 and a half inch wrists love the 45mm.
Well I loved your render of the 36mm Luminor, but they did make a Luminor Marina 40mm that recently came out. I have to say it fit my 6 1/2" wrist pretty well. I love all of their materials as well....but like you say...the prices do seem rather high compared to what you can get from Omega or Tudor. If they were 5K this would probably solve their "problem". I just don't see this base model being $7200
@@michaelfierman3256 thanks for the heads-up on the 40mm model. I will have a look at them.
@@MisterKnightly And Panerai will always cater to the big wristed ;) Thank you so much Phil, especially for taking the time out of your day to watch the clip.
@@michaelfierman3256 There have been so many great suggestions in the comments about things like less decorated movements and fitting them with solid backs (that'll cut their costs a lot) But it looks like they're going in the smaller scale direction slowly! The Due and now these 40mm examples. Also wish they'd halve the prices of these pieces... ultimately selling more and in the long run making a lot more money. Maybe, just maybe there will be hope for us slim wristed enthusiasts one day ;) Thanks as always Michael!
The moment you described the watch as large, a little ugly and old fashioned I realized why I love them so much. Because the same definition can be made of me. On top of which, having a Panerai tends to annoy certain types, and that's a bonus to me.
And in many ways that niche of people that they've always attracted will always love them for that reason. Maybe it's a great thing that they aren't "popular". It allows the enthusiasts to enjoy them even more (and keeps the riffraff out) ;)
@@ID-Guy Yes sir. I think that's about it. The Punk Rock of watches.
Nails it.
You said it, not me :)
@@davem8836 Hahah. And gladly!
I’m a proud Paneristi and I enjoy my 44mm manual wind 8 day power reserve Luminor every time I open my safe and put it on my wrist. I always had a thing for the underdog and I love the way they don’t follow the trends. That being said I prefer the older models over the modern interpretations. Panerai to me should give me a vintage vibe. I don’t know why but often I wake up and just decide it’s not going to be a Rolex or Omega day but a Panerai day. Loved the video and your opinion on the brand.
Thank you for sharing Maarten! Ah, I keep imagining the BB58 Gilt and what Panerai could do to shine them up. I also feel the same way that they need to bring across the "old world" feel of watchmaking. And funny, looking back at the clip, it begins with the archive footage and slowly works its way to the modern pieces with ceramic bezels etc etc. Love the classic look of these pieces...
@@ID-Guy thank you for you informative video. I like that there is no loud music blaring and not screaming (as some watch video commentators seem to feel compelled to do).
You also get to the point. Again, some others just drone on.
A quick note about Girard-Perregaux and their cushion case watches. 38 mm. What …? GP makes cushion cased watches. They used to. 2001
Was the last time they did. In very limited quantities.
Google “Girard-Perregaux ref 2498” 2598, 2499, 9012.
The 2598 won watch of the year in japan 1999.
The base models with simple ETA movements need to come down in price. They can even be simplified with less movement finish and a solid caseback. Start offering them in 40mm or 42mm (reduced size) as well and keep the original sizes in low production runs every year. Then start marketing online and events using their military history.
Great point about the finishing and solid backs Chase (no idea why they don't do this to save themselves the hassle) There is so much opportunity here for them to expand on these classic designs and play around with their sizes. Who knows, maybe with enough feedback on a video like this we'll see a change!
All of the ETA calibres were phased out 4 years ago. Try to keep up.
@@timsiragusa9096
Isn’t the P9200 a swiss made ETA 2892 with a chronograph module over it?
Reducing the price of their watches would destroy the brand’s credibility and viability.
@@timsiragusa9096 Is Odak correct Tim?
I was exited when they came out with 40mm versions, but they have downgrated the movements and even the caseback is snapon but made to look screwed. They are making all the wrong moves.
That is insanity that they used snap-on backs! Ah Richemont... they can let a brand like Lange thrive and do Panerai dirty...
The more you learn the more it turns people off this brand .😥
I love my Radiomir and Luminor 8 day manual wind. The design aesthetic is so iconic, and outside a submariner , one of the watches that you can identify from across the room.
And why would you want that?
The lack of honessty about the movements' downgrades and lack of finishing are enough to put me off.
It's a huge deal and definitely affects how the brand is perceived today. A real shame what Richemont did...
@@ID-Guy agreed. I'm more than happy with my "denim dial" Railmaster, but I'd considered a PAM01314 before that. Richemont really lost people's trust with their shady approaches, sadly. It makes me wonder about the other brands that live under their umbrella.
Why Panerai today sucks:
1) quality of movement, even lack of hacking
2) quality of finishing. It only finishes on places that can be seen.
3) deproving its pieces, lack of WR, lack of hacking
4) not having a modern use aside from being worn by celebs, Rolex/omega always worn for professional use, submersibles are a joke
5) not offering smaller variants before other Brands do it for them
You have probably described 99.9pc of watch companies.
You can buy 38mm, 40mm, 42mm, 44mm or 46mm Panerai.
I don’t understand the criticism of them all being too big.
Anyway, I have two and love them.
I also have two...and when I bought my first PAM 111 about 15 years ago there were 40mm options is the display case.
Great stuff. I don’t mind the big look of Paneria, it’s in the DNA, but my wrist simply cannot handle the 44mm standard size.
It’s all proportions. A smaller Panerai would still retain the oversized look on my wrist but allow it to be manageable.
Great to see you Rich! I fully agree. It's not about changing anything about the design, keeping everything the same and just tweak the scale. Damn, I just think of a 36mm explorer sized model with crown guards, huge crystal et al. Super elegant and refined but also rugged AND would be on the wrist 24/7 no problem ;) Hope you're well brother!
Love the panerai..the design is wonderfully simple. And let’s be honest, the average watch buyer these days is more interested in a submariner at 2x retail…
Without a doubt Richemont has allowed Panerai to do some profoundly stupid things that have hurt the rep over the past 10 years or so. Almost scandalous. I also wonder why the 44mm Luminors are losing functionality, not hacking any longer. Or why the Due comes in with 30m water resistance. Things that just make very little sense.
That said, I love the brand. I have the better part of a dozen Panerai.
I definitely do not agree that they should downsize the collection. Add some 42mm and even 40mm, sure. I have no problem with smaller stature folks feeling that watches are more approachable.
In fact, just this week I decided to get my girlfriend a 40mm Luminor so I can admire it on her wrist. She would never be able to pull off the standard sizing, just as I would never be able to pull off a 40mm. It should not be a choice for the brand though. There would be very little added cost to make a 40mm and 44mm Luminor or several variation of any size. I often wonder why more brands don't do it. There are a lot of watches not in my collection for no other reason than that they would look comically small on me.
I am tall and can find my way to the weight section at the gym, but by no means likely to be mistaken for a bodybuilder. With a larger overall size, and 7.5" wrists, the 44mm Luminor is perfect for me. Also the 45mm Radiomirs. I have 47mm solid lug Luminor and Panerai in the collection. I can physically pull them off, but when deciding to strap them on in the morning, I have to be in the mood for a "big watch day". I love them, but not all the time, and not for just any occasion.
As far as dabbling in completely new styles... not so much. Should Panerai come out with an homage to the Genta-inspired sports watches that the likes of AP or Patek make? No way. Should they make a thin dress watch? Another Rolex homage? There are tons of watch companies staking out that space. Panerai should stick to what they are known for and continue to make it well. Some variations within that line would be welcome. Don't they have a minute repeater now in Luminor case? They've done tourbillons in the past. Keep doing what made you great.
i am not sure what you're prattling on about the smaller sizes is. They make several 40mm luminors. I have an old one ... I think it's PAM48. Just a scaled-down version of the bigger ones. But I think I like my regular 44mm one more even if it's a bit oafish.
Couldn't agree more. I love Panerai but they just made too many models, and not to mention I've seen some high end knock offs have better quality than the genuine.
Given Panerai's history with their watches used in World War II I would think they'd market off that history like Omega did (General Omar Bradley visited their factory), but they remain niche, I can't help thinking it's in part what you're saying about the designs, and yes for what they are on paper spec wise, the prices are just insane. Look at what Doxa has done to scale down their models, like the sub 200 that is a nod to the original 11804, predating the Sub 300 with HE valve that Jacques Cousteau and his team wore, but historically important, and wearable as a daily by almost anyone. I like Panerai, but not enough to buy one or even consider saving for one at the price for what it is. It's almost as if they're happy with their static location, position and meaning in the market, which I suppose is fine but it limits their appeal and potential customer base.
Isn't it a crazy thing to think that a large majority who look to these watches and find them appealing cannot justify owning them because they are too large? I just think of a model like the Tudor BB58 (Gilt) and how these OG Submersibles could fit into that niche so nicely as a daily wearer if they were just shrunken down. Maybe it's just me? ;) Thanks as always for sharing AK!
@@mkii2363 Thanks, I did not realize that about Panerai. The same is true of IWC, Stowa and Laco and the Luftwaffe. Those brands have completely different ownership today and now have nothing to do with the Nazis, but yeah they wouldn't acknowledge something so terrible.
From what I see today, many watch brands celebrate their WW2 military history...even Seiko celebrate the Willard in its use during the Vietnam war and didn't Casio also bring out a 'Desert Storm' for the illegal war in Iraq....so to single out Panerai for using their military connection during WW2 is a tad ingenuous don't you think?.On another note I have 3 Panerai models and a medium wrist and yes....I agree with ID Guy they would all be better at 39mm or 40 max
@@mkii2363 .....you did in your initial post to which I replied.But let's face it one could allegedly tie Nazi connections to most of the French fashion houses(Vuitton,Dior etc)..Hugo Boss and his Nazi youth ties,the Dutch with Heineken and the Swedes and Swiss who were supposedly neutral.A lot of people made a lot of money from WW2 and not just Panerai.Have a good day.
Not to mention that a smaller size watch would attract a wider demographic base: Asians, women, including for more dressy occasions. Otherwise the watch as it is, is kind of limited to rugged casual
I own 4 panerai, 2 luminor of 44 and 2 radiomir of 45. the last taken is the 914, wonderful design, 300mt WR, as a modern panerai should be.
Panerai has made many mistakes in recent years, but it seems that today it has taken the right path, making the 40mm models, but it should not lose its identity by removing the 44 and 47 models.
Do you recommend me buying the new pam1312? It will be my first lux watch.
@@missakhaladjian the 1312 is one of the best-selling Panerai.
but also the radiomir origin or the 992 are to be evaluated.
in short, they are to try and feel how they suit you
good choice
Only because of its size I didn't buy , I love the brand the design , bit I don't have broad wrist like stallone to wear such a huge watch
Agree. I like Panerai, however with my small wrist they are too big for my wrist. Unfortunately, the "ladies" models that still have the crown guard, only has 30 meters of water resistance. What is the point of the crown guard then, apart from Panerai design.
For any of these supposed divers to have 30m WR is pretty hilarious. It's been one of the most controversial things surrounding the smaller cases of these Panerai pieces. And the crown guard is probably all cosmetic and nothing else haha!
They just introduced the quaranta line (40).. and the luminor due is even smaller. This video seems outdated
They need to make bio-ceramic (plastic) quartz. 5m water resistant. $179. Partner with Swatch.
Well said!! So much potential to have an appeal to a whole new audience. There’s so much class and 50’s chic with theses watches that if they only reduced the size and increased the WR, the market would beg for these.
Imagine the headlines "Panerai Makes a Comeback!" Thank you 9er. Such impressive designs all-round.
But they already make 38mm, 40mm and 42mm models. Lots of options if you don’t want 44mm or 46mm. Just look at their website.
When I bought my first Panerai 15 years ago, even then they offered a verity of 40mm versions. I don’t understand this video at all.
Until their watches come down in price, they will never be on my radar no matter what size they offer. I will admit to being a cheap sake but when you can buy two Tudors for one Panerai, it seems to me their pricing needs to come down.
It's true that their prices are mad when you consider what you're getting, fully agree and thanks for this John!
I actually discovered panerai through their ww2 history. I always really wanted the SLC, but theres just no way at all for me to wear a 47mm watch which is such a shame. So unless the impossible happens and panerai decides to scale back their sizes a bit, ill have to stick to admiring it from afar.
That classic stick dial with dots. I was actually admiring them the other night. Love the simplicity and how it works with the wire lugs on the case. But 47mm's... It's like if IWC were still making 55mm Flieger watches for commercial use ;)
You also have to consider the lug to lug distance when assessing how a watch will fit. I've owned the 425, and will be re-acquiring it at some point this year. The wire lugs give it a lug to lug of just over 50mm. That is right around my 43mm Sea Dweller. Yes, you will get more dial real estate, but it won't over hand the wrist.
Buy what you like folks, ignore the white noise.
Always great advice Angus.
1997, Florence, Italy on my honeymoon and I see a guy wearing a watch. "Where did you get that!?" I asked. I'd never seen one. Straight over the Pontevecchio bridge I went to the boutique. If I told you what I paid then prior to the takeovers, you'd faint. Hint: Less than 1k US. Call it a wedding present from my wife. I've been offered a lot for it but it's not for sale (not as long as my wife is around, anyway). ;)
Like so many others, my introduction to Panerai came from seeing one on Sly Stallone's wrist. Looking at its trademark cushion case and crown guards I thought, "What the hell are those?" 😄
Unfortunately I've never seen a Panerai up close in the metal; would love to put one on wrist. Design-wise I've grown to like and appreciate their style and function (especially the crown guards), but I'm also put off by their size.
I can wear a beefy 43-47 mm watch, no problem. Question is do I WANT to wear a 43-47 mm watch? No.
But isn't the draw of a Panerai its size, especially when Hollywood heavyweights (literally speaking) like Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson can be seen sporting one on their massive wrists? If Panerai is pushing their brand to be likened with big-name action stars--to be associated with high status and luxury--then I don't see them producing sub-40 mm models anytime soon.
Great vid as always 👍. Hopefully "Expendables 4" will be made and we can see more Panerai onscreen ('cuz you won't see them much in the wild 😅). Cheers 🍺
Your points are always so fresh brother. Absolutely, if some makers like Rolex choose polish, others choose tiff blue and others opt for size to make their watches noticeable / recognisable... It's all about laws of attraction ;)
The 42mm Radiomir that came out a few years ago, which wears fairly small and is dainty by Panerai standards, now sells preowned at a hefty premium. They’re leaving so much money on the table by targeting gorilla wristed dudes
They did release the 40mm Quaranta . I got a white face one. Loving it.
White Dial Panerai's don't get the love they deserve! Thanks for sharing HC, I love the aesthetic they chose to go with on this model!
I agree that Panerai’s need to be smaller. But 36mm might be going a bit too far IMO, for a Panerai anyway. My favorite watch size is 38mm. But bringing them down to 40mm would be ideal. But then sub 40mm might work for a separate line at Panerai, as British brand Fears make similar shaped Tonneau cased watches, and at my perfect 38mm diameter too! Yet they look very well proportioned. Panerai’s without their trademark crown guard mechanism (which might be too bulky visually on a sub 40mm watch) could work I think.
I can see why Paneri makes their watches so big. It’s the same reason why Rolex engraves their name on every flat surface. It’s their branding and so the wearer can draw attention to themselves. Sadly, watches have become a fashion accessory and not a tool.
Went to a Panarai Store to look at the Carbotech and my Girlfriend said, "You already have that watch" She was referring to my $100 GA 2100. $15,000+ for a CarboTech or $100 for a Gshock to the General Public they look the same. There quality has also diminished check out the video, "Why I'll (Probably) Never Buy Another Panerai!" by the Time Teller to learn more. I love the Titanium / Steel Panerais and have been very close to buying some of them. The only thing that holds me back is their size... its just not reasonable for daily wear. I love the explorer comparison if they made Panerais comfortable like the explorer they would sell out!!! I would be first in line for a hardcore Panerai in a comfort size.
Always listen to a girlfriends POV on watches. Ladies never sugarcoat it and say it as it is (really refreshing for us) ;) Thank you for sharing Joshua!
Panerai is badass. They do have smaller models now
Interesting video. I recently got a Luminor Quaranta and I’m extremely happy with my purchase. It wears really well on my 6.5 inch wrist, feels great. I genuinely like the cushion case and how it wears. I’m a bit iffy on the movement though. Having said that I really like it. They are slowly and steadily decreasing the sizes (40=quaranta and they have a Due Piccolo at 38). I don’t really follow trends and mostly just get the stuff I like, so I guess if there are others as blissfully ignorant as me, then congrats! You just bought an amazing watch that I’m sure you’ll enjoy wearing for a long time ahaha. Cheers mate, great video as always 👍🏼
These new Quaranta's and the latest Submersibles are definitely going in the right direction! And thank you for sharing. The movements in these machines (like many) we all seem to be asking for more love and attention put into them but hey! Solid watch, an icon, with an amazing story. And thank you for sharing!
So why does Invicta sell so many huge watches? ....People do wear large watches.
Very good point. Has Invicta managed to contaminate the extra large market?
I totally agree with you definitely should make a smaller version and they'll be back in the watch game again
I just keep imagining a BB58 Gilt and how a scaled down Luminor would fit that criteria so nicely... Ah, we can only dream Sixto ;) Thank you brother
Not everybody can pull off a Panerai.
Watches were smaller in the 90's when they use to call these hockey pucks. They were famous for being big and bold. They weren't following the trend. Why should they start now?
39mm perhaps, 36 seems overly small for Panerai. I agree I would be more interested.
36mm does seem small BUT I have a strong feeling for the cushion case they use it'll have massive presence even for that size. It would be great but hey, it's a pipe dream ;)
Agree 100%. Smaller watches please. Love the Radiomir designs.
Are you more of a fan of the classic wire lugs or the thickers lugs that came in later? Love them too Karl and thank you!! Hope you're doing incredibly well sir!
I was of the view that Panerai's were too big. I then attended a Panerai event at the invitation of my AD for the free food. I left that event wearing a 42 mm Submersible PAM00959. The 42 is a great size. Diving into their materials, I then bought a 42 mm Submersible Carbotech PAM00960. I went to another Panerai introduction and my wife fell in love with the 38 mm Luminor Due PAM01280. She loves wearing it. Ok, it's only 3 bar, but she wasn't looking for a dive watch, she was looking for the aesthetic.
Panerai offers a wide variety of watches that are smaller than 44mm.
I love these short informative videos like you used to do in the beginning. I have to admit you lost me for a while with those two and three hour conversational videos where you flip through watches on the computer.
Those livestreams will come back better than ever one day (on a new channel) with proper camera setups and all sorts but this page has always been about reviews and discussions first ;) And thank you for taking the time to watch these clips!
Dear ID guy, that was probably the best short video I have seen about any brand, well done. And now I find myself strangely attracted to a Radiomir.
Whatever you do... don't look at the PAM512 like I am...
Purist mentality is destructive, it's happening to panerai.
It's always been a hard sell for the brand I reckon. How can you keep a near 100 year old design relevant? On one hand it's awesome seeing that they're sticking to it and have made some amazing "greatest hits" models BUT repetition has its price. Well said Victor.
For me, I can’t wear small watches. I have a 8”+ wrist, 6’6 frame at about 285lbs. I recently tried on a panda Daytona and it looked dainty on my wrist. I have a PAM 422 bc I love the aesthetics of the 1950 cushion case, the sandwich dial, the rear power reserve as not to clutter the dial and the iconic second hand (with zero reset no less) at 9 with an in-house Panerai movement. I’ve had it since 2015 and love how I can completely change its look with different straps. I also like it as it goes well in the collection with my DSSD - I love the shared history with Rolex and Panerai too.
I’ve walked through the streets of Aspen, CO and struck up a conversation with other men wearing Panerai and it’s great to be part of the club. The latest Navy Seal watches are amazing. I get complete strangers asking about the watch. The first time I ever viewed the Panerai was during travel back to England from my new home in the U.S. and instantly set my sight on buying one. I now wear Rolex, IWC and Panerai and love them all. It great to see the 44mm submersible 👍👍
I’ve just bought a new 40mm luminor, after ignoring Panerai since 2007. Carbon case, open caseback, 300m WR. It’s the perfect Panerai for current market. They will sell a shitload of these I feel. 40mm now available in both Radiomir and Luminor, and now also with gold and carbon, as well as steel
I have always admired Panerai because of their amazing history and the absolute ruggedness of some of their models but like so many watch brands that started out making tool watches, they seem to have lost their way. Maybe the business model is inevitable to remain successful but it’s always a shame in my eyes when brands like Panerai, Rolex, etc… leave their beginnings and drift towards luxury watches. Sadly, as prices go up, they put themselves out of the reach of so many that appreciate their design and quality. You’re right about Panerai’s potential and yes I want them to succeed more than anything too! Let’s hope for the best. Thanks for another fantastic video. Have a great weekend my friend 🥃
I love my Panerai. That said; I wear my 2001 Omega Seamaster more. And for everyday, nothing is more comfortable than my Tag Heuer Aqua Racer for bumming around town. But going out to dinner… the Panerai is my go to.
Panerai has just begun! Making their own movements and each Panerai is actually tested to 200m they just guarantee it to dictated depth they also crash test them, torture test them before and after casing up. These are the most torture tested mechanical luxury watches in the industry. You should check out the factory tour in 3 parts. You'll probably learn a lot instead of talking 😂out of your arse.
I struggle to understand how the models without timing bezels can be called "dive watches" with a straight face. I get it 90 years ago when the concept was new (and the use case was perhaps more focused on the time one blew something up, than how long youve been down?), but not today and certainly not since Omega, Doxa, Rolex etc. donned the wrist of the likes of Jaques Cousteau and served their purpose -letting one know how long they've been under water. And dont get me wrong Paneristi, i do think many of them are beautiful, they just seem to be mislabelled somehow.
I bought my PAM00736 * BECAUSE * of it's 47mm case, not in spite of it. But I can pull it off with my 8-inch/20cm wrist.
If you've got the wrist, it's got the presence!
The watch is too big - Yes
The watch is old fashioned - No
Panerai with a case size of 36 mm would be amazing.
I think that the Longines Legend Diver 36mm and the Seiko Mini Turtle look better than their larger versions. The smaller watches look more elegant and have a huge market potential.
The Longines Legend Diver 36mm version is listed as a bestseller on the Longines website. Maybe Panerai can learn something from this.
Not to sound arrogant but the following comment I’m about to make is true surprising and has not been brought up. I lived in New York City for 25 years and anyone who was anyone in terms of having money would wear it on their wrist. Rolex, AP, Panerai, Breitling, IWC, etc. etc. etc. Our society now for whatever reason Wealthy guys don’t care about watches. They just don’t. They could have a Canali suit and wear it with a $400 Apple Watch. That would’ve never happened in 2005 in New York City. It’s a different Arun now. There are a lot of people that can afford an AP Royal Oak, offshore or Rolex steel Daytona, ceramic or even an expensive Panerai. But again in 2023 wealth is more stealth. That’s just the truth. Instead of a G wagon a lot of people are driving, land, cruisers, and Yukon. Crazy but all true. And PS I love the brand and have many watches and enjoy your video contacts and thank you.
A long time back in 2007, when I was a novice person in the watch world, I saw Panerai on the wrist of my colleague in New York City. I was amazed at its simple but rugged military design. While I never bought one because it was "expensive" for me then, I realized that it was a great brand and had a history,
which I admired. Several years forward, I heard somewhere that the quality of Panerai watches came down and they are no longer water and shockproof. So ultimately I was put off by the fact that there were quality issues especially because they have a diver's heritage. How can such a watch can have waterproof-related issues? I still admire their design but the size and possible quality issues keep me away from buying them.
I bought a PAM00051 because it was a manageable 40mm case. While Stallone and Schwarzenegger can pull off a large case model, most people don't want an oversized watch.
Terrific video and great comment on one of the great watch brands of our times. You're South African by birth?
I owned two Panerai's and had them for many years but in the end I simply grew bored with them and in truth, I am not sure why. The brand lost its appeal and I found myself moving back to the Rolex, Omega watches I had had for longer in my collection and in the end I sold them both to explore new brands that for me, offer far more appeal.
I had a Panerai bought for me a couple of years ago..It was too big so I took it back and got an Omega Railmaster instead..I know they offer an 38mmm model I belive?
Ah, it's never a bad day with an Omega on the wrist ;) And you're right Tomaz, they call it the "Due" but there was a lot to be left desired with the models (like WR etc) I try to imagine a BB58 Gilt and what Panerai could do to match that kind of scale and design. It would be a thing of beauty! ;)
Fair points. I know this is an older video, but they make the Radiomir down to 38, Luminor down to 40, and Submersible down to 42mm. This is all up to taste, but I have a 17cm wrist and am somewhat thin. I tried on the 44mm Submersible and it was too small to be big and too big to be small. Kind of an awkward size for me. I went with the 47mm. It’s huge. But that is part of the design. I like small watches too. Also have a BB54, which I absolutely love because it is small. The design works really well at that size. Both are such cool pieces to me.
Hope all is well
Thank you John! Hope you're doing well too (and getting some amazing weather where you are)
@@ID-Guy thank you buddy. I'm in Miami Beach sweating my you know what off!!
@@johnbalian874 Envious of you sir! The thought of being in that sea at the moment...
I love Panerai brand and design, it is timeless..!!!
But the problem starts with the pricing strategy and its reliability/quality and value perception...
It is a italian brand that is pround to label itself as swiss made... why? The basic model starts at $8k...
It is not a consistent brand and transparency is far away to be one of the values of the brand...
This is why it is hard to value to value this brand... except its design...
if it was a smaller watch I'd buy one...
You and me both Sam. There are some great options they offer BUT we've gotta see more (hopefully)
Had two of them, the 177 and 610. The 177 was almost wearable with my small wrist. Sold the watches but still love them and miss them. Such a great design and fun thing.
Just with for a steel Luminor Logo at 40mm with 300m water resistance. I would directly buy one.
It's great to see so many enthusiasts clamouring for the same thing! Maybe, just maybe the more we ask we might be rewarded. And thank you Theo! It's so awesome reading about enthusiasts accounts.
Baltany… you’re welcome ☺️
I rode the panerai wave on paneristi, the good and the bad. I'm 6'6" tall, so I have owned 44s, 47s and 42s. I will say imo for day-to-day wear 47mm is too big, even for a guy my size. I like the 44 but I find the 42 sub is the sweetest spot of all, for something wearable and easy to use every day. The 44s have their place, but I sort of agree that a smaller size would be better... 40mm for sure. The biggest complaint I've seen among WIS' is that the watches are too big. If Panerai wants to grow, offering all types of cases at 40-42mm would make them a LOT more cash.
Owned a Luminor Marina manual and a Power Reserve automatic almost 20 years ago sold them to buy an Audi TT…I looked ‘on the other side’ 😁 collecting Rolex for years….Yeaterday I could not resist and went a ahead purchasing a Luminor 1950 GMT 3days with Power Reserve in its back….such a beauty!!! Once you go Panerai …. Sempre ne comprerai !!!
i have a pam 0074 and its a 40mm with a zenith movement. bought it 23 years ago and its still going. Looks great on the wrist & the size makes it stand out
Panerai does more or less EXACTLY what Rolex does. They don't change. The difference is, I guess, just a stigma about the movements they use (and possible QC concerns? Or did I make that up). Even still, many can justify "overpaying" for a fundamentally frivolous material good that appeals to them.
If they keep them in the 40-42mm size, with an occasional 44-45mm, that would work, for me anyway. Their older 40mm version have some appeal to those of us with more slender wrists. Great video as always @IDGuy. ⌚️👍🌲🏔🥃🎸🍷
Thanks as always David and I hope the desert is still absolute paradise!
@@ID-Guy Actually in Montana now. Desert was good, though it is time for another adventure. 🏞🏔🏕🦬🐴🦌🐂🌲
There's quite a few 40mm Panerai so wheres the problem? They can't all be new models. My issue with them is the price they want for models with an off-the-shelf movement. It's insane.
Ths video is a bit strange. Panerai makes many smaller watches today. On their website right now there are 13 Luminor models that are 42mm wide, and one 40mm. The Radiomir line has four 42mm models and five 40mm. This is far from big for a tool watch. The Luminor Due series has many more.
The problem with Panerai is 1) That they are quite distinct in their design, so will not be "evergreens", 2) As you say, they have alienated their customer base with 'silly' fashion watches that are barely waterproof despite being marketed as 'diver style' watches that have 'crown guards' to handle the pressure of the deep, 3) All the stories of poor build quality and deceitful marketing (e.g. claiming ETA movements were 'in house'), and 4) Severely bloated prices for what you get.
I love the simplicity of Panerai. I won a 422. Yes it’s a 47mm and yes it not going to appeal to a broad audience. But I don’t care. Th rose gold hands, the cushion case, the contours of the cushion case, the history & the originality of it. It makes me smile when I wear it. I own a Rolex dive watch too and the intertwined shared history of the two make them extra special. Not an Panerai fanboy, but def appreciate the history and the uniqueness of the piece. Will always have it and never sell it
36mm, crown guard, 100m WR, solid case back, ETA, under 3k. Tudor 1926 does it under 2k there is no reason why Panerai couldnt make it happpen.
Are we forgetting they cased an unfinished movement in a special edition watch and got exposed? This was right after U-Boat got caught doing the same with low grade ETA calibers in their watches. It was all over Watchuseek. I have an Omega PO XL and at 6'1 and 220 lbs, I can barely pull it off. I'd need a custom shirt sleeve to get the Panerai to fit and it would still be too big for a suit. I don't wear my PO XL with a dress shirt. I have a few Omega 300 SMPs that fit under a dress shirt sleeve nicely at 41mm.
With respect, I don't think the case size is the real problem. The problem with Panerai is their cost-cutting and greed. They are so profit oriented they don't listen to their customers. Every single watch they produce today misses the DNA mark by at least one feature. It's not rocket science... Just rerelease the PAM 111 in a few sizes, colours and materials with COSC level accuracy (anti magnetism is also important). They must be true to the Panerai DNA: 300m water resistance, sandwich dial (avoid faux patina lume), screwed pin bars, no date and the traditional crown guard. Panerai should also help value retention of their watches by offering an authentication service for used Panerai. Panerai need to sacrifice some profit per unit to increase sales and make more money overall. Panerai is a case study in how cost-cutting your product will kill your brand... Especially in the age of the Internet and the free flow of critical information to potential consumers.
Panerai Luminor 10day GMT PAM 00986…amazing piece
Such a cool looking piece, super technical but they still manage to make it simple!
Fully support your views on panerai, being a new owner of one after lusting after one for so many years and being conned via good marketing I find myself a little glum after reading and hearing the shady practices that are going on specifically on the movements in the latest gens. I fear the new ceo, whilst talking wonderful rhetoric and waxing lyrical on new materials, saving the planet et al, he/they seem to be ignoring the loyal base and at the same time refusing to acknowledge or listen to potential new collectors. See how they go in the next few years.
Couldn't agree more. Great brand, and their pursuit of new materials is admirable. But more and more, oversized is not equal to masculinity, and proper ergonomics is not equal to femininity. Get with the programme, Panerai. It's already 2022.
Downsizing to 36mm is too small for the navy and diver style that the brand is all about. 40mm would be a good, solid compromise. Panerai should be looking to also decorate its movements more (i.e. its in-house movement), maintaining a minimum of 100-200M WR for all of its watches, and focusing on the engineering evolution and improvements of its watches.
100% agree...the quadantra are a way forward but the downgraded movements and the case back issue score an old goal.
So much potential but a ceo that won't listen to his customer base.
The problem for me is they’re supposed to be a dive watch, that’s the history but when many aren’t even capable of a dip in a pool the appeal is gone.
Great video. I have a Rolex Submariner & a Omega 42m Seamaster 300 blue definitely adding a Pam next to my watch collection love the 44m or 47m Panerai look different to other watch brands out there
I used to own a luminor. Its my favorite case design of all time. However, the brand is WAY overpriced given their movements are average at best. I ended up trading it after realizing i care a lot about movement reliability.
The problem is not just with Panerai but Swiss Made watches in general. They are making watches no one needs and no one can afford except for collectors. How many common folk can today buy a Swiss watch? People opt for Seiko, Citizen, G Shock. Other brands.
IMHO, the fixation on the size is rather barking up the wrong tree. If one had been actively collecting watches back in the late 90s and especially during the first decade of the new millennium, one would have known with absolutely certainty that one of the main trends and bragging right of the day during that period was in-house movements. For serious watch collectors and enthusiasts, to be paying the kind of money that Panerai were selling for and still had to settle for ETAs was just unvarnished money grab, regardless of Panerai’s storied past. Another brand that went off the rails during their best decade (or two) at the time was Franck Mueller. On the back of the watchmaker’s very impressive elite complication creations, the man thought he could pimp out with impunity. And pimp out he did, with Salvador Dali pretensions without the substantive content to match (for the non complication models that were rolling off the assembly lines like they were making fertilisers). In both cases, it was sheer greed and disrespect for their paying clients. Franck Mueller in particular deserves to be buried for good and never to be heard of again. For any money one would throw at a Franck Mueller bling, I would take an F.P. Journe anyday.
I think all the panerai advice is nonsense. I spent a week in Vegas watch shopping with a friend lately. I saw more panerai on wrists then anything. We tried every watch on we could from every brand of interests. From jager lacoultre to Cartier to breitling to zenith and ended right back at panerai. After trying on the weird 40mm and subs in 42mm everyone agreed the larger panerai is spot on for its design. It wears incredible at 44mm and the 47 was nice too. This brand is the best thing going currently. Period. The small watch craze is a farce. Watch retailers and manufacturers and their whorde of influencers push it because their major demographic is small Asian men in the east with tiny wrists. Hence they want to use less material, sell at high prices, and market to Asia. Western men like watches in 41mm and up…..period.
I don't understand this weird obsession with wrist size in relation to watches. Are we that vain that we wouldn't buy a watch for fear others might think it's too big. FFS get over it and buy what you like. My Wife is tiny and wears a massive Casio G shock because she likes all of its functions, and guess what. NO ONE CARES.
Good tempo and a frank attitude are very commendable. Liked the video. At the same time, if I may, I might say that maybe (again, maybe, as I not a designer in any shape or form) the very combination of the last century design, a spartan dial and the size, is what makes those watches look masculine. Compress them to a smaller size and the magic would be gone... The watch comes form the military divers, who are the real hardcore warriors, thus making this watch smaller, will "neuter" these watches, and detach them form their history. IMHO. Cheers!
I just bought a 44mm Submersible white dial and love it. I’ve been a fan since the early 2010s.
Just manufacture and sell each of the top historic models in multiple sizes: 34mm, 36mm, 40mm, etc...I think they'd find that women, men, literally everyone would be more interested if these watches came in multiple sizes.
The side by side of the Rolex Explorer and the smaller Panerai is brilliant! I agree that a smaller size would open up a larger clientele for Panerai!
They are beautiful...but still I think rather overpriced and based on others who have been duped, ti's tough to justify now paying the price they want.
But damn it's so clean but modern and lume...the lume...
I wouldnt buy it if they made them smaller. I have an 8 inch wrist, I would like a luminor in the 48mm range
i love these huge watches at 44-47mm, keep them large and charming never go small, if things go well i might buy 4 panerai watches at the end of this year
The best watch case they make is one no one ever talks about, the 1940 42mm case in the Pam 512 and 574. They everything you want. Sandwich dial. Sub secs. Manual Wind. 100m water resistance. Thin enough for anyone. After two years of period research I pulled the trigger on a perfect pam512 and just love it.
So damn gorgeous. I love the square shoulder Radiomirs! Huge congratulations for picking it up after all those years of research man... it makes the experience all the sweeter. And now I'm definitely going to be looking at them this evening...
Being part of the Richemont group is certainly a blessing for some watch manufacturers, for others it is a curse. It would have been better for Panerai watches to be independent, such as Rolex. The Richemont Group decides everything that has to do with Panerai. That's why Panerai is just a name, a shadow of something that doesn't exist anymore, nothing more. The great story behind it is only an excuse. That's why Panerai only gives me a stale aftertaste.
Instead of concentrating on exotic materials, they need more dial colors, and finishes. Way too many black dials. Some additional hand set styles. More stainless steel bracelets. More display case backs, and expose more of the movement. The newer style of having large plate sections hiding the gears and other mechanical features hides the beauty of the movement, a step backwards (which is spreading across the industry). And lower price options.
Their flaw is they never master a good looking unique metal bracelet design, like Rolex, AP, Patek, breitling, Omega and etc
I have seen a few very interesting combinations with a 3 link construction, maybe it's just me but those squared off lugs with bracelets look peculiar. Amazing to think how all those names you've mentioned have nailed bracelets on their models.
Yes they have.
@@bigmacdaddy1234 good looking? I know they have a metal bracelet for the 1316 but is hideous
@@frankv7068 Nope. It looks good.
The smallest size they should shrink down to is 39 mm. 36 for a Panerai is way too small. I usually agree with you but in this I cannot.
Huge watches are disgusting!!! If they made ALL their watches 38mm - 41mm tops they'd be in a better position!
IDGuy: talks about reducing size of Panerai watches
Me: having the urge to get that rare 60mm Egiziano in the thumbnail
you did not mention a word about the Brooklyn bridge scandal, about caliber P9200 and the high tech 70 k watch with stamped bridge??