Just FYI- this comment has feminists spelled correctly (s at the end for plural), but the title of the video makes it seem like it’s one singular feminist on each side. Add the “s” to make it plural, please! :)
i hate how some muslims put andrew tate on this pedestal and put him as a role model. as muslims we shouldnt be looking at him for anything hes not a role model to us
Saying Andrew Tate probably respects women more because he converted to Islam is a breathtaking level of short sightedness. I just stared at the video speechless on that claim.
22:47 They lost me here. There are almost 8 billion people here. You can not expect all females to be housewives and all men be the breadwinner and masculine. Go find you YOUR person. Stop tryna change everyone. Go find that 1 in 8 billion and leave people alone!!!!! Omg Im so bothered😭please...can we please stop perpetuating this idea that everything is black and white.
You're such a surface level thinker which is why the entire western world is suffering the same problems. Technology has allowed you to believe you don't need men, and men don't need women which causes this masse psychosis where women want to become independent of men. Women's worldview has changed thanks to technology while men's worldview remains similar to men of generations past.
This is unfortunately the age of lost nuance. It's a weird paradox of our time where everything is possible and also not at the same time ? I support you in your statement. My wife and I have complete 'gender role' reversal. I have been taking care of the kids and been cooking her meals for over 13 years straight now. She has a career and brings in the money. Why would that be a problem? The only problem I see is that society doesn't value me and my work on the same level as someone who works. And you can have the proof in the fact that my pension is gonna be lower to non existant even though I took care of all these humans and provided for them in other ways than monetary.
Honestly!! Like there are so many “traditional/masculine” out there. Why are we complaining about the few who choose not to define themselves in that way. Clearly they aren’t for you and thats ok. The fact they were trying to frame the departure of gender roles as what is throwing our society in choas… its just laughable. We’re in chaos specifically bc people don’t know how to mind their business and let others be. This is a prime example. While some of these women are sitting here trying to rigidly police how men and women should interact with one another, others are fighting a bigger battle to let all women (and men) be who they choose. Whether that fits the societal norm or not. The anti feminist side just came across as really self serving and not mindful of how these gender norms have contributed to sterotypes that are commonly used to label and dismiss people who don’t fit them.
Yall should do "online feminists" and content creators vs feminists actually involved in running things like women shelters or hold a significant position in a feminist organization.
Even if Andrew Tate becomes a Muslim, this does not erase his crimes. I am sad to know that there are some Muslims who defend him just because he became a Muslim. As Muslims, we believe that your past as a non-Muslim does not matter as long as your sins are forgiven, and what is more important is your present as a Muslim.
21:30 Did Tia, a Black woman, essentially just say Black people should thank white colonizers for their American citizenship, even if by way of slavery? Please tell me I'm wrong. (ETA: I guess I have to state the obvious: No one's oblivious to how we got here; it's the whiff of appreciation in her statement that alarmed me…)
Also this country was built off the backs of many black ppl after that part, poc in general but it was primarily black ppl of the poc. When did we get child labor laws again?
@@buttcheekclapper technically true in a roundabout way. It was just a HUGE chunk of very uncalled for abuse in between that made her saying that seem a little too grateful.
not her bringing up and defending Andrew Tate JUST because he's muslim now and willfully ignoring the rest of what he has said/done bc she felt being muslim would make him more pro women 💀💀😭😭
@@altaccount9716He can have credit for that. It will never cancel out the fact that hesy said other things, and only taken them back bc of his views though
Pro lifers never seem to understand what pro CHOICE means… it’s not pro abortion it’s pro CHOICE meaning allowing ALL WOMEN to make the choice that works for them whether that means keeping a pregnancy or not and anything in between.
@MoonshineH sure there is. Feminism by definition Is the advocacy of women's rights on the 'basis' of equality of the sexes. However, the definition of feminism and what feminism DOES are two totally different things. And it's been that way since first wave.
The muslim girl doesn't want to "assume stuff" about Andrew Tate being arrested for sex trafficking, but has no problem making assumptions about Trans women being dangerous.
@@johannesg8959 There's a gajillion more cases of men than any trans person world wide. It's contradictory to not want men to be called out in society for the things they regularly do but pin danger all on T people that are a minority in the world.
The expectation of shaving body hair is in fact, stemmed from the patriarchy. It is stemmed from the patriarchy and there has been different beauty standards throughout the years. Men used to wear heels, and that act was socially acceptable. It's all about remaining curious to the standards that are placed, and to create freedom.
22:55 this was such a bad take and should have received more pushback. the "role" women refused to stop filling is that of a servant. men of the past would emotionally and physically abuse their wives. they would have no choice but to submit and blindly follow his orders. up until the 1970s, women couldn't even have their own bank accounts. balancing masculine and feminine energy and understanding that a couple is a BALANCE of it all is where we are shifting as a society. the younger generation is not "confused" they are educated.
But there is an extreme opposite, which is just as bad: encouraging women to break up their families, for little to no reason (boredom, wanting to sleep around etc.). The damage divorce does to children cannot be overstated.
@@fairshareofdrownedsouls It takes two to ruin a marriage. No one is encouraging women to ruin their relationships. People are encouraging women to know their value, that a relationship doesn’t define them. A woman can get depressed and bored by staying in the house the entire time or by being a housewife but a solution to that is either communicate to your partner on how you feel and find a way for you to get back some time for yourself or think what kind of life you want if housewife isn’t it. And yes divorce impacts the children involved but also staying in an unrequited marriage/relationship can have the same impact.
Just wanna make the point, not all feminist think you HAVE to remove it. its about choice. Hijab in iran is oppressive because lack of choice. You should be free to wear what you want, no shame. You should also be able to wear bikinis, legally. Weird, but none of our business
In that case, do you think people should be allowed to walk around naked? Because not allowing it is technically telling someone what to wear. Just trying to play the devils advocate.
@@altaccount9716 yeah, but it is to everyone no matter what the gender is. Telling a woman what to wear in public places is a bit strange if it doesn’t apply to men as well. Why would you force a woman to wear (or not to wear) certain piece of cloth whereas for men, you wouldn’t. That’s where you need to draw the line.
Mostly the pro femenists side though. Especially the red head (Literally). She kept yaping making uneducated arguments that can be disproven by simple statistics. Like women being attacked? Men are statistically more likely to be assaulted lmao
Pretty sure she meant to add a comma in there. Despite still not agreeing with her, I don’t think she meant patriarchy only originated in the west. “…especially in the west, through colonialism” There’s lots of miscommunication even in the comments. Some are meaning the word/concept of patriarchy, others mean a permeating global culture.
Women are inherently agreeable and more likely to be pressured by others and conform to social behaviors. They also tend to prefer dominant / leader male partners. That’s why we associate submission to femininity. But of course not all women are this way.
Its is Feminine to be submissive. If a woman is not submissive, then she most likely isn't feminine, doesn't mean she isn't female. Don't be confused with wordplay. Submissive femboys are feminine, but they're not female. Know the difference.
You have to admit Andrew Tate changed a LOT! Before he used to be a brat and always degrading women and nowadays, he doesn't do that anymore, he praises women and he has a daughter that he loves so much, almost like he completely transformed after coming out of prison!
@@nami20622he want just involved in talking bad about women but also TRAFFICKING WOMEN. Some things can't be forgived and forgotten. Should we all let him go free and stop going after him now that he's a Muslim?
@@ellasabras1699 Why was he released from prison after false allegations if he really trafficked women! Have you not heard of false convictions before?
Actually it kind of is. Women in other countries aren’t shouting patriarchy as much as western women. It’s become a buzzword for white feminist yet can’t explain where they feel oppressed in society. The definition of patriarchy from the dictionary is “a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.” Where are women excluded from holding power? We have a vice president who is a woman….
I had to let out a small scream when she said men don't have to fear being attacked in public and women are way more likely to deal with being attacked. Both are pure misandry and untrue, men are far more likely to be victims of violent attacks and we definitely have to fear that and we do. There's a reason a lot of guys want to take martial arts, own a gun, knife etc. It's very obvious a lot of feminists never have their ideas challenged and have zero men in their life.
Yeah exactly! All of these women look liberal feminists Not a single one was a radical feminist Radical feminists aren't braindead enough to say that men can be women and thus are allowed to step on women's rights
this! my biggest pet peeve is when people assume that feminism only looks ONE (usually extreme) way but feminists have historically argued about feminist topics and have had varying opinions and no one was saying "i'm not a feminist cuz i don't agree with you." Virtually all the comforts women have in modern America is a direct result of the feminist activism in this country. It's so ignorant and privileged.
@@user-ff9mb1ts4u*all of the comforts white women have. Historically feminism has always been about the rights of white women not women in general. Yes there might be different types of feminism but they all are straining from racism due to the historical context of feminism
On the 4:44 minute of the video, Rihan says that the Iranian women are not fighting for freedom and that they just want to be naked. Evereyone is also noding their head without even listening. I realy need to make it clear that it is mostly the Iranian kids rathar than the older generation who is not only fighting but also loosing their life, getting ra*ed and jailed for wanting to wear something similar to what most of the women in this video are wearing. Women are also not allowed to sing or dance in that country but most of the fightings are against the harsh punishments rather than just wanting to "remove their clothes"
@munaosman9952Thank you for your support and understanding. unfortunately Iranian women who are mostly muslim recieve hate from other muslim women which is really strange. They say my body my choice And this muslim woman in this video throw em hate.
Yea I heard from Muslim friends who grew up in Iran or Afghanistan that many of the older women are bad! They are brutal to the younger women. I believe it’s due to bitterness. The mentality of “ I had to suffer so now you do too! Don’t be a baby!” Type of thing. It’s sad. This is the scary part, I hear men in America say all the time “ we no longer need feminism! Women need to just stop complaining” But guess what? Even in third world countries where women literally have barely any rights, you still hear men say the same exact thing! I’ve heard so many say “ women don’t need to go to school! Why? They already have enough rights!” People tend to think “ in those countries men would be more understanding since women don’t have many rights” nope! They’re not. I’ve heard many men complain about their women in countries where American men think women are trad! It’s like it’s never enough for them and that’s scary.
Regardless of whether she truly believes Andrew Tate has changed, her saying "we shouldn't judge people based on their past"? We absolutely can judge people on prior acts behavior and statements, especially as egregious as his. If you've hurt people, you are not owed forgiveness. If you truly change, you should do so because you want to be better, and also recognize that it will be a hard, long road, to regain trust, and potentially be forgiven, but again, forgiveness is not something you are owed for no longer doing harm. The harm done is still there.
Everyone has done bad things in the past, including you. You aren't some all-righteous being who's worthy of judging who deserves forgiveness and who doesn't.
I am a muslim womem myself and In islam we believe that if someone converts hes past sins get removed (unless its sins that involve people) so what this sister said here is true. And the allegations that Andrew hurt women, were proving to have been false but the western media and elite pushed only this narrative because Andrew was going and speaking up against their agenda
This comment rubs me so wrong. People make mistakes. You probably have made so many mistakes in your life, wouldn’t YOU want them to forgive you ? No ones a saint. Forgiveness is usually more so for your inner peace, rather than the said person. You can never be at peace if you judge others so harsh expecting them to treat you nice. This is what makes us human and keeps the society thriving or else the world would’ve ended long ago.
@@takemetomarz I mean, would you say that same thing if he'd been openly gay? Also, he hasn't technically admitted to any wrongdoing and has given no indication that he's remorseful.
22:45 - 27:20 the main problem with the anti-feminist side is that they claim to be pro-women yet if they have a daughter whos career-driven, into sports and being phyeically strong, wouldnt wanna submit to a husband, they wouldnt support her like they would a boy if he wanted those things. Roles should not exist as gender does not define u
They did not get into it, likely because they just didnt have time and it was cut. But the reality is... Sex and thus gender DOES define you. Why are people that need to carry 80-100 lbs in construction nearly all male? Why is it easier to build larger and faster muscles if you are male? Why is it easier to build flexibility if you are female? becasue these are physical things based on our DNA. Mena re not "protectors" because of society... its because they have the HIGHEST chance on average of surviving during that job.
Welcome to your first day on planet earth. The roles exist for a reason. Women will always be more nurturing than men. Men will always be stronger than women. That's why women make better teachers and nurses and men make better miners and police officers.
That’s the thing is a true feminist would support that. That’s the point of feminism. You can do whatever it is that makes you happy. If you want to be a housewife then be one. If you want to be a police officer or a pilot then do it! The anti feminists want men to be the one paying for everything and leading the household. Women 100% have the ability to do those things. A mom will protect her children no matter what. Women are 100% naturally protectors.
We can really try to do a research on this. Get make and female kids, and put them in a closed society and have them choose their roles. Let’s see how it goes. We’ll be able to clarify this argument if it’s true or not
I'm totally in favor of feminism having to become intersectional, but I still don't think it's okay to gaslight problems that we have in privileged countries. Of course, war, rape and the oppression of many women in other countries is a serious problem where everybody should stand up for!! but that doesn't mean that we can't also criticize problems in our more privileged country. I have the feeling people who say that don't understand that we can fight for equality in many different ways.
The problem is anti-feminist will flip it and say for you a Westerner to consider other women of other cultures who aren't allowed to go to school, to read, or do anything without a man's approval as oppressed is why the hate "modern feminism" some might even call you racists. it's a lose lose situation.
If the conversation was about whiteness vs POC they could have got feminists from both regions, the anti feminist group is just conservative women or women with no appreciation for social justice that does not directly fit their expectations lol
Not her saying that the patriarchy gave black women citizenship. Under the patriarchy black women weren’t even considered women they were barely considered female until black people got rights.
The patriarchy was in control when slaves became recognized as citizens. Therefore, yes the patriarchy is responsible for granting black americans equality under the law.
It would've been more appropriate to bring out POC living in said oppressive countries and not ones who see glimpses of that "glamorous and comfortable" lifestyle on social media or when visiting.
What kind of question is that? My comment isn't a dig on this video, it's just a suggestion if Jubilee has the means to fund their travels@@ginihall1234
@@ginihall1234What kind of question is that? My comment isn’t a dig on this video, it’s just a suggestion if Jubilee has the means to fund these travels
the middle east is more patriarchal then America and the fact the muslim girl had the nerve to say its not as bad in the world is funny its way worse in the world then 1st world countries especially America and with her speaking on Gaza they should've told her women there don't even have the proper care for their basic human rights as women but I bet if they did that she would've screamed islamophobia same with muslims way worse.
Some of the anti feminist were giving off "men pleasing" energy to me, especially when one of them tried to defend ANDREW TATE.... also it's super interesting how these conversations always somehow end up turing anti trans...
Yeah and one of them tried to say that there was something wrong with effeminate men or that it’s hard to find a Parthenon because they aren’t as manly as they’ll like.
In her defence she did say she only started watching him after his conversion to Islam, as a Muslim I agree that some of his videos before were vile but you can tell she hasn't seen those or watch him THAT much and she's just going off the newer vidoes where he takes back a majority of the women hating things he said in the past - she didnt know so she shouldnt have even entertained the topic but idk why tf u lot are coming at her in the comments... its not that deep, in the end u could tell she regretted it
Crazy considering misogyny for centuries is the reason for feminism. Of course they don't want to hold men accountable and would rather gaslight women for the way they rightfully feel.
I mean to an extent yea bc I mean male bodies are stronger than female bodies, so there could be like a power dynamic. But also it’s not completely bc of that. It’s more of a pyscho-social thing I feel.
Just INSANE! And some of the feminists politely nodding to not seem closer minded… girl this woman just said women in the gulf are perfectly happy and have total equity! Don’t nod your head! That’s WILD
@@zandikhetwayo7444The feminist movement is hateful, loud, racist. Look at them they’re all white and the conservatives are multi ethnic. It’s obvious to the objective eye
Well, not all of us hate being American and white colonialism is literally why FBA are here and FBA persistence is why every other non white nationality was able to benefit from this country.
Not all black people were descended from slaves. Many are descended from slave dealers. Your viewpoint and lack of historical persepctice makes your opinion, correspondingly, less valuable.
Some of the anti-feminists just glossing over someone sharing their SA experience and prior to that rolling their eyes/sighing when she talked about the fear of being harassed in public really irked me. Very callous.
They lack empathy, that's the only way they're allowed to be anti feminist because it's impossible to see all the things women deal with all the time as another woman and not be spooked by it knowing that it could easily also happen to you or someone you love.
Exactly, I hate the idea that feminism is only white when the poc feminists are fighting ten times harder around the world. They're fighting men and mysogonistic women. Ugh.
This conversation became so scuffed - the fact they had their own individual definitions of patriarchy/feminism etc etc means they are not on the same page at all.
100% agree with all the other chats in here. There needs to be a training on dialogue and how to engage and have some sort of ground rules on basic definitions.
Reminds me of that Beavis and Butthead episode on "male privilege". Where a dude acts so progressive, yet interrupts the women when trying to explain this to the two leads....
The problem with these 'stick to ur roles' is that they want everyone to follow those roles only.. Why is it a problem for u or anybody if someone doesn't want to follow that societal assigned role?
Have you thought for a moment that your current societal worldview was carefully crafted for you to become dysfunctional? Have you ever considered that WWIII was going to be fought with technology and not with guns? There is a reason why many folks dunk on Gen Z you only think surface level.
@@authorjoannawhite The politicians don't want us in these roles, dysfunction is how politicians make money. Why do you think Democrats have been campaigning for student debt relief for over 30 years and STILL haven't done it?
Exactly that’s what I got from their take. They don’t like feminism because they believe we should stick to our roles. I’m a feminist because I believe we get to choose ourselves
Disappointed in the sister making excuses for Tate when there’s a mountain of evidence against him! Yes, he’s Muslim (at least that’s what he claims) but that doesn’t erase his wrongdoings (crimes) against women.
@@AJ-lm5dl I'm not saying anything specific about Tate, but a lot of people commit crimes and don't end up in prison or held guilty in the court of law due to lack of evidence. I'm not saying Tate is guilty of X crimes or not but not everyone who should be in jail or held responsible for a crime will be. That's an unfortunate reality.
17:56 I am a pure local Emarti woman " from the UAE" and I confirm that she is a lier "me myself not happy" I HATE when western muslim women, who lived their lives to the fullest ,which are also capable of making their own decisions and choices, start talking in behalf of us !! like excuse you !!!
Nowhere in the world are all women happy. I've lived in the west and in emirates, there are different problems in both places but I personally was happier in emirates and I plan to return. It is a lot more safe for woman.
Please as a Saudi (father) Bahraini (mother) woman who lived 22yrs between Saudi and Bahrain now living in Germany for 9 years for treatment, I thought I was unhappy in our country until I lived in Germany “the land of the free”. Please, specially living in emarat most ppl are happy don’t lie حبيبتي يمكن انتي بس مو حابه العيشه اهناك بس الباقي لا، الحمدلله بلادنا احسن من بلادهم مليون مره
@@tima2553 facts! I don't know a single woman that's lived in both places that prefers the west. Actually even the western woman I met prefer the Middle East.
Being happy and being free don't necessarily have to be true at the same time. Being limited, structured, and straightforward is appealing to some people.
I'm deeply "traditional in my femininity" feminism allows me to make that choice. The anti-feminists just seem confused about what feminism's goal actually is.
Are there like….actual anti furries!? That’s insane if so. Honestly I don’t “get” furries but I have a ton of weird hobbies that other people don’t “get” so who am I to judge!? Also every furry I’ve ever met irl has been super cool and chill.
the one side rolling their eyes when the woman said that something they don’t have is feeling safe when going outside is BAFFLING TO ME…. how are u going to act like that’s not something a lot of women experience in day to day life. so icky
I feel like they do acknowledge it but they just have this "oh, don't be so sensitive" kind of approach. Like this is just a part of being a woman and we just have to get over it. 😑
The secondhand embarrassment started with her forced model face expression, and went up exponentially with the”middle eastern women know their place, everyone is happy”
She was my least favorite of the cast. I respect any one of any religion but a lot of her talking points came across as very self centered and complicit. Clearly she had her own ideas of what a women should be which is fine, but she wasn’t really open to people who don’t want to live in those gender roles and how current anti-feminist vernacular effects that individual freedom.
@@shaktra1563this is what majority of Muslims believe btw. (Take it from me, I'm from the Middle East and speak Arabic and know what they say) A lot of traditional conservative beliefs that are anti-pc currently. Which is fine but what's annoying is that leftists will side with them but hate Christians for believing the same thing...
sorry but this should have been a poc women only debate, It seems to me the women on the feminist side felt like they needed to hold back bc of their white privilege where every form of criticism could easily be labelled as racism or ignorance by the opposite side
The problem isn't the colour but the ideology you bet some of the antis have conservative values and regressive approach thinking that other women having choice over their bodies takes away their choices 🤦🏻
The hijabi woman is wrong. She has never lived in Iran and she is judging Iranian women. Iranian women said my body my choice. If she cant understand this basic opinion then its not feminists fault at all.
Yes what they are doing in Iran is wrong. It's required in the religion but should not be forced by the people. Iran needs to follow Qatar. I lived in Qatar for 5 years. The safest country in the world, no police car sounds. Ambulance once in a while. In Malaysia and UK police and ambulance sounds are common
I hate it when muslims/middle eastern wemen who never lived here try to talk about us and they be like oh feminism is harming muslim men and blah blah like stfu you're not seeing or living here as a girl who grow up in a muslim arab country and still lives here I agree and support and Im happy that yt feminist like the one in this video exist we need more of them because patriarchy falling appart in first world country in the long term is also benefiting us here
@@Seokjinisbut not every Muslim is like Iran. Not every Muslim decides to follow greed and power instead the teachings of our religion. I totally disagree with irans laws and ruling, however feminism often fails to separate the state from the religion and therefore other Muslim men are called terrible things and us Muslim women are always made out to be opressed and brainwashed, when we are not. So many so called “feminists” try to talk hijabis out of wearing it, because apparently the hijabs is letting men oppress her. So taking more clothes off as others apparently is cool, but putting more clothes on than others is wrong? I don’t know if that is the point what the girl was trying to make, but Iran is definitely a greedy state, instead of an Islamic one.
If I'm not mistaken, once a person accepts Islam, their past sins are forgiven, aren't they? I am not a Tate fan, but if you're a Muslim you can't really hold his past before Islam against him. I've only seen some of his stuff, and I definitely agree that his past rhetoric was disgusting, as well as his actions. That being said, recently he has stood up for the Palestinians, and tends to voice more traditional masculine/feminine gender roles, which is why I can see him being appreciated by more traditional people.
As a mother, hearing another woman say there’s nothing we can do to try and prevent children being assaulted or taken advantage of other than “tell me about it after it happens” is just beyond disgusting and so disheartening. So you’ll advocate and for things like bodily autonomy for women, but just shrug your shoulders at protecting kids?
This! And coming from the woman who works with rape victims... imagine looking them in the face and telling them there's nothing we can do to protect you
That’s not at all what she was saying it might have concluded that way but to respond to the trans conversation she just said a predator doesn’t walk around with a label. And if you have ever experienced assault before you would understand that it can be the very closest people that hurt you. So yes there’s no way to tell but also there can be measures taken at hiring level to weed out potential predators. But the anti feminists were only making it a trans issue which is insanely disrespectful to say the least
@@StriveforJannah2no she literally did say you can’t prevent it which is a LIE. Interviewing someone for a job where you could see their criminal record and do extensive background checks thoroughly and go through their social media is more thorough than just letting anyone into women’s spaces. They just don’t want to admit there is a difference in the 2.
Anytime I hear the phrases “provider and protector”, “masculine/feminine energy”, “western/modern woman” and such I can’t help but internally roll my eyes now because of how much they’ve been abused in this type of discourse.. 😩
They think that social media is real life. Majority of women dont live this way. Especially when women will be 40-50 theyre not gonna be as attractive as when theyre young. Its easy to want that lifestyle when theyre toung
Almost like he wasnt found guilty and all the women that he supposedly trafficked speak highly of him 😂almost like they let walk freely because they found nothing, women think their accusations are always facts
@ammar3094 Almost like he didn't go to Romania where laws are looser and therefore he didn't got charged. Almost like he never spoke about it 🙄 He is open about what he does, and even has courses on how to teach other men who to take advantage of woman.
@@irenakurtic-l8z ah the looser laws that put you in prison for months while they search for evidence 😂yall out of touch, too triggered, it was an OF business, funny how yall would defend all the OF girls part of teams run by men tho 🤡all the women that went there gave their consent; are women children now that cant give consent and be taken seriously or are they adults that can make their own decisions?
@@Sims4T thats not true. Feeling itimidated by men happens that does not mean feminsts dislike men. Feminsts dislike toxic men or men that abuse their power. I think we can All agree on that.
Would they able to have someone impartial tough? I don't remember which episode it was but they had someone that was supposed to be neutral but it wasn't at all.
@@loverdj9091 she's from a western family who chose to wear hijb JFL. She's nothing like the muslims from the actual west asia. Some opinions are less credible and less important than others
Crazy how the woman who rolled her eyes at the idea of men and and women being harassed at different rates IMMEDIATELY had to put on a straight face and nod along when the other brought up she was assaulted in life multiple times.
But what really bothered me was that the Muslim girl didn't bring up "feminism" in regards to islamophobia. But it holds a huge presence especially when people start criticizing Islam and showing outright hatred because they think it's anti-feminist. When it's not.
@@Badjuda I can assure you I’ve read both the hadiths and the Quran. And I would like to add that perhaps you should listen to the proper explanation and interpretation of the Hadiths and Quran rather than make your own assumption on statements you probably misinterpreted and misunderstood
The main thing is that one side supports women being whoever they want to be, whatever that definition is to them VS one side that thinks women are one way and should be one way.
Yeah for the most part I just felt like everyone was arguing their personal opinions instead of what the prompt asked… or arguing how the other side is wrong by their opinions. Crazy how no one knows the definition of patriarchy…
anyone else notice the “anti-feminist” were allowed to interrupt with abandon yet anytime the feminist returned that energy it was reprimanded with “let her finish”? i guess if i were to turn this into a productive critique it’d be that maybe one single person is appropriate to moderate EVERY subject/video.
Why? Feminists have the entirety of society coddling them. Not to forget the insults they hurl on social media towards traditional women, the pendulum needs to swing back.
I want to make a point regarding women being happy in the UAE because they know their gender roles - if you are a female UAE national or expat, you have to ask your husband or fathers permission to work, open a bank account, get a drivers license and leave the country. Women who have reported being sexually assaulted have been imprisoned for extramarital sex and the law requires 4* male witnesses to attest to a rape in order for the perpetrator to be convicted. Domestic violence is also very hard to prosecute, especially if the perpetrator is a UAE local (Emirati). Although some women may be happy despite living under these circumstances, there are many who are not but don’t have a choice in the matter because It's illegal to protest or insult the UAE, and their social media is heavily monitored so it’s difficult for locals and expats to speak out about these experiences while they are there. There are a few tourists (both male and female) who have shared their experiences, otherwise it doesn't seem to be common knowledge that there are major injustices and disparities for women there. * edited to 4 as I mistakenly stated 5 in the original post
exactly 27:00 the anti-feminist said they feel excluded because the feminist movement doesn't encourage them to do what they want which is the conserative role but when she says she wants to go work the anti feminist are not letting her be what she wants to do as awoman
the way she said “we need to teach these kids how to speak out” was legit implying that yes it’s fine if it happens but we need to teach them to speak out. last time I checked we need to prevent anything from happening ….. not once did i hear her mention that we need to just have WOMEN using women bathrooms and MEN using men bathrooms
It's not the conversion that gets them forgiven...it's the remorse. If someone converts just to aim to have their sins removed, obviously that conversion is not genuine and they won't be forgiven just like that. People who truly convert are never confident that they'll be forgiven.
If you want rights and your voice to be heard on any platform as a woman you're not anti feminist, you literally choose to benefit from feminism when you can be living in the olden times.
A feminist is someone who supports gender equality and equal rights for all people, regardless of gender. It’s got nothing to do with calling men toxic, or hating them. It’s acknowledging and living into the value that women have as much value as men. The patriarchy most societies accept makes these conversations confusing and convoluted. Call yourself whatever you want-either you accept women as having equal value, or you don’t. Feminism is equality, period. Calling yourself an anti feminist is basically saying you don’t believe it.
that lady in the blue saying “the ONLY thing we can do is teach children how to tell you when it happens” in response for how to protect children from molesters and rapists is wild… 43:39
I understand why she said that it’s the only thing. But she has to also understand there are ways to protect children rather than just teach them like they’re in another class just for that we just need to come up with a system better than that.
That's exactly what I was thinking because when a child has to "tell you when it happens" it means the damage has already been done, the child has already been scarred, so it's not a way of prevention but just a way to resolve it. But it's always better to prevent than try to cure / resolve.
She’s a councillor for rape victims so her job is literally to respond to victims after they’ve been assaulted. I guess she thinks that way because it’s her job.
@@market_is_closedliterally 🤦🏻♀️ a woman is judged for not wearing a hijab even reverts but Andrew Tate can get away with everything 😒 the religion isn’t sexist but ALOT of Muslim men sure are. We as Muslim women know it better than anyone
the expectation for women to be hairless literally came about because of men and the patriarchy. it’s so ridiculous to act like someone acknowledging that is somehow “blaming everything on the patriarchy.”
That's not because of men and the patriarchy. That's because humans tend to generalize things to extremes. In fact, it's likely something animals in general do. That is, people observe men are generally much hairier than women, so they believe "women should be hairless and men should be hairy". It's caused by faulty reasoning, not "the patriarchy". I know it might come as a shocker to some feminists, but there are much better explanations than "the patriarchy". Sometimes, things happen in spite of a patriarchy, not because of it.
@@virgodemwhy is that then men that are in high fashion or/and modelling are generally not hairy at all and mostly shaved. Same in porno? So what? Do they want to seem more feminine then? And why is that a standard only for women?
@mariaannenkova7954 as much as men may want to impose their will on women and get gratification from it, women have had "woman's body" movement for as long as iv been alive in terms of being the ones that run their bodies, it could be as simple as a social norm for people feeling more attractive due to these norms, to apply this to men being the reason for women shaving is a victim complex. If you disagree with me, argue with me please
"When your a white woman, the only oppression you face in your life is being a woman". What about the other infinite amount of factors that shape the way you experience life? It's sad that people see gender, race and sexuality as the defining factors in someones life, and decide how oppressed or privileged someone is based on which of those categories they fit into.
It's not sad, it's the deliberate consequence of the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act. If you can incite strife in a population through subversive acts, you can get away with a lot. Malcom X went into detail on the |||perpetrators||| of this behavior.
They didn’t critique how other women live though??? They spoke about homosexuality but it was irrelevant (just like those with disabilities etc.) to the argument. A majority of women are straight because we biologically have to be to procreate with men and to continue the human race. Lesbians are a minority of us just like trans men etc.
That’s a reductive mischaracterization of feminism. If you live according to or in support of a system that limits and harms a lot of people-you included, it’s a problem that should be pointed out.
An unreleased prompt + an extended cut of Middle Ground: White Feminists vs POC Anti-Feminists is up on our Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/jubileemedia
Why didn't you ask the "anti-feminists" how they identify? It seems like a really bad choice of word framing. No?
Just FYI- this comment has feminists spelled correctly (s at the end for plural), but the title of the video makes it seem like it’s one singular feminist on each side. Add the “s” to make it plural, please! :)
why are only asians working for your company do you hate white people?
Communism and Mahometanism are both destructive.
Yall will come up with any category to exclude RADICAL FEMINISTS
Jubilee needs to let these videos come out unfiltered and unedited. We don’t mind sitting here for 4 hours
I wanna see them too but that would involve A LOT of scheduling.
Why they cut the video?
@@jasmineward7897 for views and the participants that don't fit into jubilees narrative will get less screen time.
@@Jaykmane that's wicked
Sitting? I listen to these at work
i hate how some muslims put andrew tate on this pedestal and put him as a role model. as muslims we shouldnt be looking at him for anything hes not a role model to us
QUEEN SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PPL AT THE BACK
A thousand percentttt
Yeah . Its so weird that they support him. As a muslim woman im disgusted
She was not supporting him@@nawal6842
@@nawal6842 where do they support him
Saying Andrew Tate probably respects women more because he converted to Islam is a breathtaking level of short sightedness. I just stared at the video speechless on that claim.
Trust me I’m a Muslim women and many of us do not forgive him at all
@c9kw1er8f The biggest names in the Muslim youtube community respects Tate, try again loser.
Chickens for kFC at this point 💀
Beta!
@@Random-sk6hm
Whenever someone doesn't agree with feminism :
The feminist I know as well as myself NEVER STOPED speaking about the women and Iran and Gaza.
well i never seen any rally of feminist for gaza in any country.
Help them yes but to say there’s not issues in our own countries is wrong
stopped*
Thanks. Would be nice if more women (and men) voiced their concerns about the abuses in places like Gaza.
We always have been talking about women in Iran and Gaza (also Afghanistan)
22:47 They lost me here. There are almost 8 billion people here. You can not expect all females to be housewives and all men be the breadwinner and masculine. Go find you YOUR person. Stop tryna change everyone. Go find that 1 in 8 billion and leave people alone!!!!! Omg Im so bothered😭please...can we please stop perpetuating this idea that everything is black and white.
ikr i hate when they say these gender roles are inherently in us
You're such a surface level thinker which is why the entire western world is suffering the same problems. Technology has allowed you to believe you don't need men, and men don't need women which causes this masse psychosis where women want to become independent of men. Women's worldview has changed thanks to technology while men's worldview remains similar to men of generations past.
This is unfortunately the age of lost nuance. It's a weird paradox of our time where everything is possible and also not at the same time ?
I support you in your statement. My wife and I have complete 'gender role' reversal. I have been taking care of the kids and been cooking her meals for over 13 years straight now. She has a career and brings in the money. Why would that be a problem?
The only problem I see is that society doesn't value me and my work on the same level as someone who works. And you can have the proof in the fact that my pension is gonna be lower to non existant even though I took care of all these humans and provided for them in other ways than monetary.
Honestly!! Like there are so many “traditional/masculine” out there. Why are we complaining about the few who choose not to define themselves in that way. Clearly they aren’t for you and thats ok. The fact they were trying to frame the departure of gender roles as what is throwing our society in choas… its just laughable. We’re in chaos specifically bc people don’t know how to mind their business and let others be. This is a prime example. While some of these women are sitting here trying to rigidly police how men and women should interact with one another, others are fighting a bigger battle to let all women (and men) be who they choose. Whether that fits the societal norm or not. The anti feminist side just came across as really self serving and not mindful of how these gender norms have contributed to sterotypes that are commonly used to label and dismiss people who don’t fit them.
Yesss! So many of the “anti-feminist” arguments were binary like two truths can’t exist at once
So glad they added the moderator. Long overdue.
absolutely!
He didn't do a great job. They kept talking over each other. That's a wack debate if I can't hear the other side
Thank you so much 🤝
This guy makes rage bait content online so we really need someone better for this. And it really should've been a woman.
I really wonder how many times people are going to keep pointing this out... (no hate to the commenter, I'm just speaking in general)
Yall should do "online feminists" and content creators vs feminists actually involved in running things like women shelters or hold a significant position in a feminist organization.
I love messy topics like that
YES!!!!!!
That’ll be too difficult to define. Many of the former also do the latter, and vice versa.
Feminists actually in the field work online as well. That wouldn't be easy.
That would be very hard to differentiate.. most cross over, and the ones who don’t probably wouldn’t come on here knowing that they’re performative.
Even if Andrew Tate becomes a Muslim, this does not erase his crimes. I am sad to know that there are some Muslims who defend him just because he became a Muslim. As Muslims, we believe that your past as a non-Muslim does not matter as long as your sins are forgiven, and what is more important is your present as a Muslim.
@@rahidkarim6lmao
21:30 Did Tia, a Black woman, essentially just say Black people should thank white colonizers for their American citizenship, even if by way of slavery? Please tell me I'm wrong. (ETA: I guess I have to state the obvious: No one's oblivious to how we got here; it's the whiff of appreciation in her statement that alarmed me…)
Seee, I know I wasn’t the only one that was like…huh?
Yes disturbing AF!
Also this country was built off the backs of many black ppl after that part, poc in general but it was primarily black ppl of the poc. When did we get child labor laws again?
....where is the lie???? Most African Americans wouldn't be here if their ancestors weren't enslaved and brought here. So technically she is correct.
@@buttcheekclapper technically true in a roundabout way. It was just a HUGE chunk of very uncalled for abuse in between that made her saying that seem a little too grateful.
not her bringing up and defending Andrew Tate JUST because he's muslim now and willfully ignoring the rest of what he has said/done bc she felt being muslim would make him more pro women 💀💀😭😭
I don't like Tate but he has taken back and regrets alot of the things he said and done. So I do belive he deserves some credit for that.
@@altaccount9716Why do his fans always feel the need to lie about being fans? Everyone takes back stuff when they’re facing imprisonment.
She's a muslim woman... not known for their 🧠
and in the same breath say that she didn't watch his videos like huh????
@@altaccount9716He can have credit for that. It will never cancel out the fact that hesy said other things, and only taken them back bc of his views though
Pro lifers never seem to understand what pro CHOICE means… it’s not pro abortion it’s pro CHOICE meaning allowing ALL WOMEN to make the choice that works for them whether that means keeping a pregnancy or not and anything in between.
Exactly! That part drove me wild
No it doesn't. most feminists want no regulation regards to abortion. it needs regulation like everything does in society.
@@zerotoanime3953???
I think they do understand that, they are still saying that it shouldn’t be a choice and a life is a life that shouldn’t be taken no matter what.
Many Pro abortioners are legitimately pro abortion, some of them have literally purposefully gotten pregnant just to abort it
Breaking: anti-feminists still don’t even know what feminism is.
It's embarrassing tbh
These 'anti feminists' were bad examples. I'm an anti feminist, and I know what feminism is just fine.
@@MissKateKatie there are no antifeminists that know ehat feminism is
@MoonshineH sure there is. Feminism by definition Is the advocacy of women's rights on the 'basis' of equality of the sexes.
However, the definition of feminism and what feminism DOES are two totally different things. And it's been that way since first wave.
@@MissKateKatie That’s not what feminism is.
Blaming feminism for misogyny is the same as "I hit her because she makes me angry with her behavior and how she speaks." What a ride this debate was.
Exactly!!!!
SPOT ON
its circular reasoning 101 lmao
Literally no one said that. But to a feminist I bet this is how this debated sounds 🤣
No one said that.
So because andrew tate converted to islam he now respects women? What a joke.
He converted to the religioun famous for child brides, denying women education, and basic rights lmao, perfect for him
Exactly, he converted because Islam uses its religion as an excuse and tool for women's oppression. Very easy.
😭😂
Exactly !!! It’s the opposite actually.
😂😂
Now he’s gonna disrespect them more since he got an excuse
The muslim girl doesn't want to "assume stuff" about Andrew Tate being arrested for sex trafficking, but has no problem making assumptions about Trans women being dangerous.
true lol
Exactly lol
assume? They are litrealy cases of them being dangerous. they don't belong there.
@@johannesg8959 There's a gajillion more cases of men than any trans person world wide. It's contradictory to not want men to be called out in society for the things they regularly do but pin danger all on T people that are a minority in the world.
@@johannesg8959where? Trans people are not a monolith but Andrew rate is a person
The expectation of shaving body hair is in fact, stemmed from the patriarchy. It is stemmed from the patriarchy and there has been different beauty standards throughout the years. Men used to wear heels, and that act was socially acceptable. It's all about remaining curious to the standards that are placed, and to create freedom.
22:55 this was such a bad take and should have received more pushback. the "role" women refused to stop filling is that of a servant. men of the past would emotionally and physically abuse their wives. they would have no choice but to submit and blindly follow his orders. up until the 1970s, women couldn't even have their own bank accounts. balancing masculine and feminine energy and understanding that a couple is a BALANCE of it all is where we are shifting as a society. the younger generation is not "confused" they are educated.
Exactly preach
well said 👏🏻❤
Totally agree
But there is an extreme opposite, which is just as bad: encouraging women to break up their families, for little to no reason (boredom, wanting to sleep around etc.). The damage divorce does to children cannot be overstated.
@@fairshareofdrownedsouls It takes two to ruin a marriage. No one is encouraging women to ruin their relationships. People are encouraging women to know their value, that a relationship doesn’t define them. A woman can get depressed and bored by staying in the house the entire time or by being a housewife but a solution to that is either communicate to your partner on how you feel and find a way for you to get back some time for yourself or think what kind of life you want if housewife isn’t it. And yes divorce impacts the children involved but also staying in an unrequited marriage/relationship can have the same impact.
Just wanna make the point, not all feminist think you HAVE to remove it. its about choice. Hijab in iran is oppressive because lack of choice. You should be free to wear what you want, no shame. You should also be able to wear bikinis, legally. Weird, but none of our business
In that case, do you think people should be allowed to walk around naked? Because not allowing it is technically telling someone what to wear.
Just trying to play the devils advocate.
In the same way its oppressive that France does not allow the choice to wear a hijab.
@@shaharyar4093 yes. I never claimed otherwise
@@altaccount9716 yeah, but it is to everyone no matter what the gender is. Telling a woman what to wear in public places is a bit strange if it doesn’t apply to men as well. Why would you force a woman to wear (or not to wear) certain piece of cloth whereas for men, you wouldn’t. That’s where you need to draw the line.
@@shaharyar4093Research the law. It doesn't allow a hijab at work or school, but it allows them outside. It's a secular law. Made in 1907.
It's disappointing how un-nuanced this conversation was, from both sides. Some of these arguments can be shattered by a teenager!
Mostly the pro femenists side though. Especially the red head (Literally). She kept yaping making uneducated arguments that can be disproven by simple statistics. Like women being attacked? Men are statistically more likely to be assaulted lmao
agreed.
seriously. I couldn't finish the video it was so bad
The anti feminist side didn't make sense at all.
@@orangeslice43seriously felt like I lost braincells just listening to them 😒
As a woman of color, I am surprised how often women of color do not hold men accountable.
they dont wanna bring their men down or some shiiiid.
Because they're solid women, it's not about people of color it's about western vs nonwestern women
@@BigSplenda1885 no they're straight up cowards for that lmao
What does your color have to do with anything
@@BigSplenda1885”solid” women💀🤡
it felt like the feminists were walking on egg shells around the poc anti feminists trying to please them and not offend them lol
I agree, they could’ve been more firm without offending them
They created the culture of egg shells
Typical.
So true, they made me feel like that too. Like it's so disgusting!!!
They were holding their tongue so much, they would not be this civil if it was a white christian stay at home mum from tennessee
I'd like to see a debate between liberal and radical feminists.
Yess
!!!
Yes but not “radical feminists” as in transphobic conservative women… actual radfems that align with radfem theory
Yes! No platforms for TERFS@ashley-wk9ry
@@ashley-wk9ry who often are not ”transphobic” but anti-misogyny
19:22 “patriarchy was created in the west” ok, what about literally every other region on earth.
Pretty sure she meant to add a comma in there. Despite still not agreeing with her, I don’t think she meant patriarchy only originated in the west. “…especially in the west, through colonialism”
There’s lots of miscommunication even in the comments. Some are meaning the word/concept of patriarchy, others mean a permeating global culture.
Personally I blame Queen Victoria Mao Zedong was always known for his feminist activism
They are delusional 😂
I think it came from Ancient Egypt and Babylon...
Im tired of people relating being feminine as being submissive
femininity is inherently submissive
So realllll
Women are inherently agreeable and more likely to be pressured by others and conform to social behaviors. They also tend to prefer dominant / leader male partners.
That’s why we associate submission to femininity. But of course not all women are this way.
@@unapologeticpatriot6504 girlypop some women are lesbians
Its is Feminine to be submissive. If a woman is not submissive, then she most likely isn't feminine, doesn't mean she isn't female. Don't be confused with wordplay. Submissive femboys are feminine, but they're not female. Know the difference.
I don’t identify as a feminist but I agreed with the feminists more in this debate. The girl who defended Andrew Tate completely LOST me
If you want human rights ur a feminist.
And the girl who literally said that she’s thankful for colonizers for bringing her ancestors to the Americas that’s she’s a citizen
The feminists pointing out how men having to play the role of provider is unfair, especially in today's society and economy was refreshing to me.
@@colehughes2679 it's not unfair tho.
@@kindallnight1615tbh if i was black woman i'd rather live as us citizen than in some poor country in africa
homegirl saying she forgives andrew tate just because he converted to islam took me outttt lmao
You have to admit Andrew Tate changed a LOT! Before he used to be a brat and always degrading women and nowadays, he doesn't do that anymore, he praises women and he has a daughter that he loves so much, almost like he completely transformed after coming out of prison!
@@nami20622my guy he no just no a pedophile turn Christian is still a pedophile not calling Andrew that just giving an example.
Clearly you either haven't watched the video or you're a moron.
@@nami20622he want just involved in talking bad about women but also TRAFFICKING WOMEN. Some things can't be forgived and forgotten. Should we all let him go free and stop going after him now that he's a Muslim?
@@ellasabras1699 Why was he released from prison after false allegations if he really trafficked women! Have you not heard of false convictions before?
patriarchy isn't just a western problem, what?
this conversation was mind numbing
😂😂it was indeed
It’s true that it isn’t but it also depends on culture
agreed. from both sides tbh. so american-minded even when talking about the middle east
Actually it kind of is. Women in other countries aren’t shouting patriarchy as much as western women. It’s become a buzzword for white feminist yet can’t explain where they feel oppressed in society. The definition of patriarchy from the dictionary is “a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.” Where are women excluded from holding power? We have a vice president who is a woman….
I had to let out a small scream when she said men don't have to fear being attacked in public and women are way more likely to deal with being attacked. Both are pure misandry and untrue, men are far more likely to be victims of violent attacks and we definitely have to fear that and we do. There's a reason a lot of guys want to take martial arts, own a gun, knife etc. It's very obvious a lot of feminists never have their ideas challenged and have zero men in their life.
i think it's so important to note that there are several types of feminism.
Yeah exactly!
All of these women look liberal feminists
Not a single one was a radical feminist
Radical feminists aren't braindead enough to say that men can be women and thus are allowed to step on women's rights
this! my biggest pet peeve is when people assume that feminism only looks ONE (usually extreme) way but feminists have historically argued about feminist topics and have had varying opinions and no one was saying "i'm not a feminist cuz i don't agree with you." Virtually all the comforts women have in modern America is a direct result of the feminist activism in this country. It's so ignorant and privileged.
I think they are pointing out how women of color are divesting from traditional feminism
@@user-ff9mb1ts4u*all of the comforts white women have. Historically feminism has always been about the rights of white women not women in general. Yes there might be different types of feminism but they all are straining from racism due to the historical context of feminism
This video was just full of feminists
On the 4:44 minute of the video, Rihan says that the Iranian women are not fighting for freedom and that they just want to be naked. Evereyone is also noding their head without even listening.
I realy need to make it clear that it is mostly the Iranian kids rathar than the older generation who is not only fighting but also loosing their life, getting ra*ed and jailed for wanting to wear something similar to what most of the women in this video are wearing.
Women are also not allowed to sing or dance in that country but most of the fightings are against the harsh punishments rather than just wanting to "remove their clothes"
no literally as a muslim woman this video was hard to watch like...
@munaosman9952Thank you for your support and understanding. unfortunately Iranian women who are mostly muslim recieve hate from other muslim women which is really strange. They say my body my choice And this muslim woman in this video throw em hate.
Yea I heard from Muslim friends who grew up in Iran or Afghanistan that many of the older women are bad! They are brutal to the younger women. I believe it’s due to bitterness. The mentality of “ I had to suffer so now you do too! Don’t be a baby!” Type of thing. It’s sad.
This is the scary part, I hear men in America say all the time “ we no longer need feminism! Women need to just stop complaining”
But guess what? Even in third world countries where women literally have barely any rights, you still hear men say the same exact thing! I’ve heard so many say “ women don’t need to go to school! Why? They already have enough rights!”
People tend to think “ in those countries men would be more understanding since women don’t have many rights” nope! They’re not.
I’ve heard many men complain about their women in countries where American men think women are trad! It’s like it’s never enough for them and that’s scary.
Regardless of whether she truly believes Andrew Tate has changed, her saying "we shouldn't judge people based on their past"? We absolutely can judge people on prior acts behavior and statements, especially as egregious as his. If you've hurt people, you are not owed forgiveness. If you truly change, you should do so because you want to be better, and also recognize that it will be a hard, long road, to regain trust, and potentially be forgiven, but again, forgiveness is not something you are owed for no longer doing harm. The harm done is still there.
Also, I'm not so sure she would give him the same benefit of the doubt if he'd been openly gay or anything like that
Everyone has done bad things in the past, including you.
You aren't some all-righteous being who's worthy of judging who deserves forgiveness and who doesn't.
I am a muslim womem myself and In islam we believe that if someone converts hes past sins get removed (unless its sins that involve people) so what this sister said here is true. And the allegations that Andrew hurt women, were proving to have been false but the western media and elite pushed only this narrative because Andrew was going and speaking up against their agenda
This comment rubs me so wrong. People make mistakes. You probably have made so many mistakes in your life, wouldn’t YOU want them to forgive you ? No ones a saint. Forgiveness is usually more so for your inner peace, rather than the said person. You can never be at peace if you judge others so harsh expecting them to treat you nice. This is what makes us human and keeps the society thriving or else the world would’ve ended long ago.
@@takemetomarz
I mean, would you say that same thing if he'd been openly gay? Also, he hasn't technically admitted to any wrongdoing and has given no indication that he's remorseful.
22:45 - 27:20 the main problem with the anti-feminist side is that they claim to be pro-women yet if they have a daughter whos career-driven, into sports and being phyeically strong, wouldnt wanna submit to a husband, they wouldnt support her like they would a boy if he wanted those things. Roles should not exist as gender does not define u
They did not get into it, likely because they just didnt have time and it was cut.
But the reality is... Sex and thus gender DOES define you. Why are people that need to carry 80-100 lbs in construction nearly all male? Why is it easier to build larger and faster muscles if you are male? Why is it easier to build flexibility if you are female?
becasue these are physical things based on our DNA. Mena re not "protectors" because of society... its because they have the HIGHEST chance on average of surviving during that job.
Welcome to your first day on planet earth. The roles exist for a reason. Women will always be more nurturing than men. Men will always be stronger than women. That's why women make better teachers and nurses and men make better miners and police officers.
That’s the thing is a true feminist would support that. That’s the point of feminism. You can do whatever it is that makes you happy. If you want to be a housewife then be one. If you want to be a police officer or a pilot then do it! The anti feminists want men to be the one paying for everything and leading the household. Women 100% have the ability to do those things. A mom will protect her children no matter what. Women are 100% naturally protectors.
yes it does define who you are.
If gender roles didn’t exist then this society wouldnt exist at all humans would have eventually went extinct if it was the other way round
“Those roles are not in our DNA, they were socialized” so true. Who defined what is masculine and what is feminine.
We can really try to do a research on this. Get make and female kids, and put them in a closed society and have them choose their roles. Let’s see how it goes. We’ll be able to clarify this argument if it’s true or not
@@thesower6577lmao that would be interesting but in no ways remotely ethical 😭
No
Testosterone vs estrogen
Ah, yes, the fact that the vast majority of violent criminals are male was just a result of socialization. Do you hear how ridiculous you sound?
I'm totally in favor of feminism having to become intersectional, but I still don't think it's okay to gaslight problems that we have in privileged countries. Of course, war, rape and the oppression of many women in other countries is a serious problem where everybody should stand up for!!
but that doesn't mean that we can't also criticize problems in our more privileged country. I have the feeling people who say that don't understand that we can fight for equality in many different ways.
One hundred percent
Exactly!!!
Yeah it's not a competition
The problem is anti-feminist will flip it and say for you a Westerner to consider other women of other cultures who aren't allowed to go to school, to read, or do anything without a man's approval as oppressed is why the hate "modern feminism" some might even call you racists. it's a lose lose situation.
If the conversation was about whiteness vs POC they could have got feminists from both regions, the anti feminist group is just conservative women or women with no appreciation for social justice that does not directly fit their expectations lol
Not her saying that the patriarchy gave black women citizenship. Under the patriarchy black women weren’t even considered women they were barely considered female until black people got rights.
What we're they considered? Aliens?
The patriarchy was in control when slaves became recognized as citizens. Therefore, yes the patriarchy is responsible for granting black americans equality under the law.
@@censaimwhat patriarchal values and systems specifically allowed for the citizenship of black women
@@Bossmybadprobable masculine because why not.
Yeah, if our ancestors didn’t fight for our rights, we wouldn’t have been “given” anything
It would've been more appropriate to bring out POC living in said oppressive countries and not ones who see glimpses of that "glamorous and comfortable" lifestyle on social media or when visiting.
Would you pay for those women to go to this platform?
What kind of question is that? My comment isn't a dig on this video, it's just a suggestion if Jubilee has the means to fund their travels@@ginihall1234
@@ginihall1234What kind of question is that? My comment isn’t a dig on this video, it’s just a suggestion if Jubilee has the means to fund these travels
these episodes are filmed in LA (i think) where are they going to find people from oppressive countries?
Maybe some who formerly did? I just didn't like the glamorized lifestyles depicted by the Anti-Feminist side @@ieevux
saying patriarchy is a Western thing is wild considering the West is by a long shot the least patriarchal civilisation ever
It's pretty ironic that the west is always the target of feminists when it's the most female-progressive culture in history
the middle east is more patriarchal then America and the fact the muslim girl had the nerve to say its not as bad in the world is funny its way worse in the world then 1st world countries especially America and with her speaking on Gaza they should've told her women there don't even have the proper care for their basic human rights as women but I bet if they did that she would've screamed islamophobia same with muslims way worse.
Western Patriarchy is least male dominated compared to Asian and African societies.
Women in China in the past has always been subordinate in society.
Some of the anti feminist were giving off "men pleasing" energy to me, especially when one of them tried to defend ANDREW TATE.... also it's super interesting how these conversations always somehow end up turing anti trans...
One of them is a Muslim woman, defending Islam... not known for their 🧠
"men pleasing" while you're trying to defend and allow biological males dressing up as women into biological female spaces.
Yeah and one of them tried to say that there was something wrong with effeminate men or that it’s hard to find a Parthenon because they aren’t as manly as they’ll like.
Trans women come into women spaces so no duh trans comes up
A lot of anti feminists have this weird "pick me" mindset and it's honestly so sad to see.
Imagine jumping to defend Andrew tate then saying you haven't really watched his videos 🤦🏽♂️
a simple clip of him saying disgusting baffling stuff about women is enough. what type of "research" do you need? lmfaoo@@natethestrange
@@natethestrange pretty sure they did or else he wouldn't be hated🤦♀️
@@RmonK2000 Nope. Leftists hate whoever they're told to hate.
In her defence she did say she only started watching him after his conversion to Islam, as a Muslim I agree that some of his videos before were vile but you can tell she hasn't seen those or watch him THAT much and she's just going off the newer vidoes where he takes back a majority of the women hating things he said in the past - she didnt know so she shouldnt have even entertained the topic but idk why tf u lot are coming at her in the comments... its not that deep, in the end u could tell she regretted it
I mean muslims believe in a rappist prophet blindly too
Blaming feminism for misogyny is a crazy take
Feminism=misogyny
I mean those red pill ppl do it for that reason
It is and its is confusing😅
Crazy considering misogyny for centuries is the reason for feminism. Of course they don't want to hold men accountable and would rather gaslight women for the way they rightfully feel.
@@ifrahsuge7661 Misogyny is the reason for feminism. Feminism will always be needed.
saying women are getting harrassed at night because its in their biology is such a crazy take.😃
I mean to an extent yea bc I mean male bodies are stronger than female bodies, so there could be like a power dynamic. But also it’s not completely bc of that. It’s more of a pyscho-social thing I feel.
@@tarathoughts13 yeah but the girl was trying to defend the fact that women get harassed at night like girl bffr 💀
I was just going off about this because wth..... Like, how could she say that
why don't you send your children at night? You think biology does not play a role?
I mean yeah that’s true
I have never wanted to participate in a discussion so bad, literally screaming at my screen rn bc some of the claims made in this video were INSANE
Wanted to debunk the Muslim girl so BADD. They were tiptoeing around her😭😭😭
i feel like they always bring people with the most random claims and wildest points
Just INSANE! And some of the feminists politely nodding to not seem closer minded… girl this woman just said women in the gulf are perfectly happy and have total equity! Don’t nod your head! That’s WILD
Yeah those feminist certainly made a lot of false claims
@@zandikhetwayo7444The feminist movement is hateful, loud, racist. Look at them they’re all white and the conservatives are multi ethnic. It’s obvious to the objective eye
33:35 "Andrew Tate learned respect for women when he converted to islam"
Im pretty sure he converted to Islam for the exact opposite reason lol
I don't understand how women can follow a religion that spits in their face😂... Willingly😅
Prolly because of terrible interpretation
Exactly, he converted because Islam uses its religion as an excuse for women's oppression. Very easy.
Exactly, he converted because Islam uses its religion as an excuse and tool for women's oppression. Very easy.
Not really if you go back and watch how he talked about women before conversion and after you would notice a positive difference
now we need woc feminists vs woc anti-feminist !!
Would love to see this! Definitely feel the middle ground that they mention can be unpacked a lot with the inclusion of WOC feminists
Or the far more common woc feminist and yt anti-feminist.
Remember Black men were the most common demographic to vote for abortion rights in Ohio while most white men voted against it.
Yt ppl are the problem, not PoC
@@jasonhaven7170 yeah that would also be an interesting video in addition
thanks for the ohio fact, i didn’t know that (i’m british)
“I’m here in this country because of men” if your talking about slavery babe then yes 100% 😂
So much to unpack there!
Yoooo 😂
Well, not all of us hate being American and white colonialism is literally why FBA are here and FBA persistence is why every other non white nationality was able to benefit from this country.
cringe, seeing a black person and thinking of slavery, shes from west africa
Not all black people were descended from slaves. Many are descended from slave dealers. Your viewpoint and lack of historical persepctice makes your opinion, correspondingly, less valuable.
Some of the anti-feminists just glossing over someone sharing their SA experience and prior to that rolling their eyes/sighing when she talked about the fear of being harassed in public really irked me. Very callous.
It was very strange …
They lack empathy, that's the only way they're allowed to be anti feminist because it's impossible to see all the things women deal with all the time as another woman and not be spooked by it knowing that it could easily also happen to you or someone you love.
Yeah they were very weird
Personal anecdote is not an argument.
@@Lilliathi Personal anecdote? You can pull up the statistics of SA and see how often it happens to women and young girls.
Love the longer episodes. I would love to see an episode where anti-feminist POC go against POC feminist
I would love to see that because I know a couple of black feminists who would bring the heat
Exactly, I hate the idea that feminism is only white when the poc feminists are fighting ten times harder around the world. They're fighting men and mysogonistic women. Ugh.
This conversation became so scuffed - the fact they had their own individual definitions of patriarchy/feminism etc etc means they are not on the same page at all.
Which is why people need to just stop mentioning it. It barely serves a purpose in any conversation these days.
Yeah I think they should have maybe had a different moderator and laid out some basic ground rules beforehand.
@@ajh.4131 no no no but what will they talk about if they can't mention "mUH PAtRIarcHy"
That’s why it is SO important to lay out the information and definition of words before a discussion
100% agree with all the other chats in here. There needs to be a training on dialogue and how to engage and have some sort of ground rules on basic definitions.
a lot of statements of the anti feminists side were just so problematic ..
Oh no not "problematic"😢😢
Nobody wants a trans in women locker or bathrooms, how's that problematic.
having a male moderator is so ironic 😂😂😂
😂😂
EXAAAAAACTLY.
His bias showed.
Why?
Reminds me of that Beavis and Butthead episode on "male privilege". Where a dude acts so progressive, yet interrupts the women when trying to explain this to the two leads....
The problem with these 'stick to ur roles' is that they want everyone to follow those roles only.. Why is it a problem for u or anybody if someone doesn't want to follow that societal assigned role?
Yessss that’s what annoys me so much.
Have you thought for a moment that your current societal worldview was carefully crafted for you to become dysfunctional? Have you ever considered that WWIII was going to be fought with technology and not with guns? There is a reason why many folks dunk on Gen Z you only think surface level.
They're not saying that but they are saying that society today doesn't want anyone in those roles
@@authorjoannawhite The politicians don't want us in these roles, dysfunction is how politicians make money. Why do you think Democrats have been campaigning for student debt relief for over 30 years and STILL haven't done it?
Exactly that’s what I got from their take. They don’t like feminism because they believe we should stick to our roles. I’m a feminist because I believe we get to choose ourselves
Disappointed in the sister making excuses for Tate when there’s a mountain of evidence against him! Yes, he’s Muslim (at least that’s what he claims) but that doesn’t erase his wrongdoings (crimes) against women.
It's cuz she wishes to be trafficked by him . There are a lot of Muslim women pick me online that worship Muslim men . Sad to see
what evidence?
What crimes? Didn´t your censored master commit worse crimes? The numbers 6 and 9 come to my mind.
If that were true, then he would already be in prison.
But, he isn't.
So, just be honest. You want him in prison just because you don't like him.
@@AJ-lm5dl I'm not saying anything specific about Tate, but a lot of people commit crimes and don't end up in prison or held guilty in the court of law due to lack of evidence. I'm not saying Tate is guilty of X crimes or not but not everyone who should be in jail or held responsible for a crime will be. That's an unfortunate reality.
now we need woc feminist vs white anti feminist. dont be shy jubilee 😚
17:56 I am a pure local Emarti woman " from the UAE" and I confirm that she is a lier "me myself not happy" I HATE when western muslim women, who lived their lives to the fullest ,which are also capable of making their own decisions and choices, start talking in behalf of us !! like excuse you !!!
Nowhere in the world are all women happy. I've lived in the west and in emirates, there are different problems in both places but I personally was happier in emirates and I plan to return. It is a lot more safe for woman.
Exactly!!! Privileged women taking about not being privileged enough who talk on our behalf.
Please as a Saudi (father) Bahraini (mother) woman who lived 22yrs between Saudi and Bahrain now living in Germany for 9 years for treatment, I thought I was unhappy in our country until I lived in Germany “the land of the free”. Please, specially living in emarat most ppl are happy don’t lie حبيبتي
يمكن انتي بس مو حابه العيشه اهناك بس الباقي لا، الحمدلله بلادنا احسن من بلادهم مليون مره
@@tima2553 facts! I don't know a single woman that's lived in both places that prefers the west. Actually even the western woman I met prefer the Middle East.
I’m a muslim western woman do you want my 9-5 depressive job ?
"He ran a sex trafficking ring" The faces 😂
timestamp?
He is ACCUSED of it, not as a matter of fact.
nah, he did it @@khazms
@@khazmshe ADMITTED to it
@@RmonK2000 then why isnt he convicted if he did it?
17:59 “saudi women used to be happier” ah yes the time where saudi women weren’t even considered worthy of having their own drivers license
انا امره سعودية وسعيده جدا وافتخر ببلدي
because owning a drivers license has been the pillar of human happiness.
Being happy and being free don't necessarily have to be true at the same time. Being limited, structured, and straightforward is appealing to some people.
It’s always westerners who dictate how other people in different parts of the world feel when in reality they have no clue at all
and yet she's in the US talking about feminsim, she can gladly go back and preach that there
As a muslim woman, the Muslim girl was sooo disappointing. Holding up Saudi and Andrew Tate? Girl bye
I’m a Muslim women too and bro she didn’t say anything wrong
As a Muslim woman I didn't find her wrong
She wasn't disappointing, she said something YOU did not agree with😭...
You just don't know anything about Andrew tate ... And you assume you know that it is your problem not her
@@InayaHassan-u1eexactlyyyyy
I'm deeply "traditional in my femininity" feminism allows me to make that choice. The anti-feminists just seem confused about what feminism's goal actually is.
But in the being they already agreed the the feminism move ment was broken up and could be unclear
What is the goal??
I am also confuse, please teach me, what is their goal?
We're waiting.
You seem confused ab what they said. They know they're in agreement with feminism, they don't agree with a lot of modern feminist rhetoric.
Y'all gotta do Furries vs Anti-Furries that would be hilarious.
Fr
Y mean weir people vs normal people 😂😂😂
Full costumes and gear mandatory.
Are there like….actual anti furries!? That’s insane if so. Honestly I don’t “get” furries but I have a ton of weird hobbies that other people don’t “get” so who am I to judge!? Also every furry I’ve ever met irl has been super cool and chill.
sign me up for being Anti Furries.
The incel to Islam pipeline really needs to be talked about more honestly
THANK YOU!!!!!!! She started wearing a hijab two years ago…… that tells you all!
They not ready for the smoke!
Ehmm.. If u mean tate I think you're a million miles closer to being involuntarily celibate than him 😂
@@Nithinithinithcan you expand in this point more I’m genuinely intrigued
@@Nicolelove90because her and tate are similar in that they're using conservative Islam as an argument to be sexist and get away with crap
the discussion around patriarchy had my jaw on the floor.. like how in the world did you come to that conclusion?
the one side rolling their eyes when the woman said that something they don’t have is feeling safe when going outside is BAFFLING TO ME…. how are u going to act like that’s not something a lot of women experience in day to day life. so icky
Intelligence on the anti-feminist side was low. They were also very aggressive.
I feel like they do acknowledge it but they just have this "oh, don't be so sensitive" kind of approach. Like this is just a part of being a woman and we just have to get over it. 😑
Because it's not a law that discriminates against women. It's a societal issue.
Timestamp please, I didn't notice it.
It was @ 29:42 in the video under the prompt "patriarchy has been beneficial to society.@@GabrielaGonzalez-ic2ow
They need to have an educated feminist and anti feminist discussion.
Educated is a better suggestion. We need far less ums and spouting arguments on the fly.
I doubt you'd find many educated people that do not consider themselves feminists tbh
@@danceforjb Indoctrination centers.
@@danceforjbI beg to differ. A black woman with a decent knowledge of history will want equality. But not be a feminist
@@danceforjbsay that again!
The fact that they defend literally a drug lord and human trafficker…
And blame Trans People for all the world's problems.
Is there proof of that
He did that before he became a Muslim and he was a Christian I'm assuming
Doesn't erase the crimes. If he's true Muslim, let him pay for his crimes. @@khadijahbegum3546
@@khadijahbegum3546still doesn’t change that fact he was doing some shitty things
These women are not traditional women they gave more of pick me energy.
theyre modern women
Bc they r young and don’t dress like a grandma
Ah yes, the standard feminist slur for women who disagree with them. Yet more proof that feminists don't actually care about women.
as a Muslim myself, the Muslim girl really gave me secondhand embarrassment with the Tate comment 🤦🏼♀
Or how about all the happy women in Saudia Arabia?
The secondhand embarrassment started with her forced model face expression, and went up exponentially with the”middle eastern women know their place, everyone is happy”
She was my least favorite of the cast. I respect any one of any religion but a lot of her talking points came across as very self centered and complicit. Clearly she had her own ideas of what a women should be which is fine, but she wasn’t really open to people who don’t want to live in those gender roles and how current anti-feminist vernacular effects that individual freedom.
@@shaktra1563this is what majority of Muslims believe btw. (Take it from me, I'm from the Middle East and speak Arabic and know what they say) A lot of traditional conservative beliefs that are anti-pc currently. Which is fine but what's annoying is that leftists will side with them but hate Christians for believing the same thing...
@@wekurtz72women in saudi are happy, at least a lot happier than feminists in the west.
sorry but this should have been a poc women only debate, It seems to me the women on the feminist side felt like they needed to hold back bc of their white privilege where every form of criticism could easily be labelled as racism or ignorance by the opposite side
That's their problem that they created. Can't feel bad for them.
Agreed. This had too many nuances.
I agree. Or it just could’ve been feminists vs anti-feminists
The problem isn't the colour but the ideology you bet some of the antis have conservative values and regressive approach thinking that other women having choice over their bodies takes away their choices 🤦🏻
So true!!!
The hijabi woman is wrong. She has never lived in Iran and she is judging Iranian women. Iranian women said my body my choice. If she cant understand this basic opinion then its not feminists fault at all.
Yes what they are doing in Iran is wrong. It's required in the religion but should not be forced by the people. Iran needs to follow Qatar. I lived in Qatar for 5 years. The safest country in the world, no police car sounds. Ambulance once in a while. In Malaysia and UK police and ambulance sounds are common
I hate it when muslims/middle eastern wemen who never lived here try to talk about us and they be like oh feminism is harming muslim men and blah blah like stfu you're not seeing or living here as a girl who grow up in a muslim arab country and still lives here I agree and support and Im happy that yt feminist like the one in this video exist we need more of them because patriarchy falling appart in first world country in the long term is also benefiting us here
When did she do that? I must have missed it but I was thinking that the entire time.
I think she mean because of people think all Muslims womans oppressed because Iranian womans, they they generalize and treat as like that
@@Seokjinisbut not every Muslim is like Iran. Not every Muslim decides to follow greed and power instead the teachings of our religion. I totally disagree with irans laws and ruling, however feminism often fails to separate the state from the religion and therefore other Muslim men are called terrible things and us Muslim women are always made out to be opressed and brainwashed, when we are not. So many so called “feminists” try to talk hijabis out of wearing it, because apparently the hijabs is letting men oppress her. So taking more clothes off as others apparently is cool, but putting more clothes on than others is wrong? I don’t know if that is the point what the girl was trying to make, but Iran is definitely a greedy state, instead of an Islamic one.
As a Muslim, I am ashamed of the way Rihan or whatever her name is talk in about Tate
You should be
If I'm not mistaken, once a person accepts Islam, their past sins are forgiven, aren't they? I am not a Tate fan, but if you're a Muslim you can't really hold his past before Islam against him. I've only seen some of his stuff, and I definitely agree that his past rhetoric was disgusting, as well as his actions. That being said, recently he has stood up for the Palestinians, and tends to voice more traditional masculine/feminine gender roles, which is why I can see him being appreciated by more traditional people.
As a mother, hearing another woman say there’s nothing we can do to try and prevent children being assaulted or taken advantage of other than “tell me about it after it happens” is just beyond disgusting and so disheartening. So you’ll advocate and for things like bodily autonomy for women, but just shrug your shoulders at protecting kids?
This! And coming from the woman who works with rape victims... imagine looking them in the face and telling them there's nothing we can do to protect you
Exactly.
That’s not at all what she was saying it might have concluded that way but to respond to the trans conversation she just said a predator doesn’t walk around with a label. And if you have ever experienced assault before you would understand that it can be the very closest people that hurt you. So yes there’s no way to tell but also there can be measures taken at hiring level to weed out potential predators. But the anti feminists were only making it a trans issue which is insanely disrespectful to say the least
And I say this as a mom of 2 girls
@@StriveforJannah2no she literally did say you can’t prevent it which is a LIE. Interviewing someone for a job where you could see their criminal record and do extensive background checks thoroughly and go through their social media is more thorough than just letting anyone into women’s spaces. They just don’t want to admit there is a difference in the 2.
The white women were being too nice to these anti feminists... cause this hurt to watch.
I'd have to agree. While I appreciate their respective approach, I think they could have pushed back a little harder.
@@theunknownloverof lol yes, they definitely should have pushed back.
they were probably afraid to get called racist or islamaphobic
@Nadia-bt5ls yeah, they were playing too safe, I fear
Nah I agree with the „anti-feminists“ yall Are crazyyyyy
Anytime I hear the phrases “provider and protector”, “masculine/feminine energy”, “western/modern woman” and such I can’t help but internally roll my eyes now because of how much they’ve been abused in this type of discourse.. 😩
Same!!😂
They think that social media is real life. Majority of women dont live this way. Especially when women will be 40-50 theyre not gonna be as attractive as when theyre young. Its easy to want that lifestyle when theyre toung
And andrew tate was never a provider. He turned his girlfriends into prostitutes and onlyfan models and they were the ones making HIM money.
It’s so tiring😂😂
It's quintessential red pill rhetoric (*coughs fresh&fit) and it always sounds so corny to me 😂
Blaming feminists for redpill incel guys is just insane.
33:03
"He ran a sex trafficking ring."
"I don't-I don't wanna assume stuff."
There's no conviction though. This nothing but assumed guilty. I don't like the guy but this is so dangerous.
It is not assuming, he openly speaks about it and has even online course about it.
Almost like he wasnt found guilty and all the women that he supposedly trafficked speak highly of him 😂almost like they let walk freely because they found nothing, women think their accusations are always facts
@ammar3094 Almost like he didn't go to Romania where laws are looser and therefore he didn't got charged. Almost like he never spoke about it 🙄 He is open about what he does, and even has courses on how to teach other men who to take advantage of woman.
@@irenakurtic-l8z ah the looser laws that put you in prison for months while they search for evidence 😂yall out of touch, too triggered, it was an OF business, funny how yall would defend all the OF girls part of teams run by men tho 🤡all the women that went there gave their consent; are women children now that cant give consent and be taken seriously or are they adults that can make their own decisions?
I think if the moderator was female it was easier for her to break the interruptions. I feel like he was scared to break it up.
Maybe, buy given half the debaters dislike men, having hik there made him clearly nervous
@@Sims4T thats not true. Feeling itimidated by men happens that does not mean feminsts dislike men. Feminsts dislike toxic men or men that abuse their power. I think we can All agree on that.
@@faysmit4799 And we also hate toxic women
too "feminine" bashed to much male😝😝😝😜😜
Would they able to have someone impartial tough? I don't remember which episode it was but they had someone that was supposed to be neutral but it wasn't at all.
Andrew Tate converted to Islam, so what??? What does that change😭
he changed
He's now part of a religion where hating women is expected, so he gets a free pass now
well he changed as a person ever since
I love how the muslim girl completely ignored what the Iranian women were fighting for. She is a clown. Who invited her?!
Thank you for stating this
she was so disingenuous.
she's rnuslirn lmao. What did you expect. Those people can't think
And? Just beacuse she is iran, dosen't mean she have to listen more to the iran girl, like wtf. The muslim have all my respect
@@loverdj9091 she's from a western family who chose to wear hijb JFL. She's nothing like the muslims from the actual west asia. Some opinions are less credible and less important than others
Crazy how the woman who rolled her eyes at the idea of men and and women being harassed at different rates IMMEDIATELY had to put on a straight face and nod along when the other brought up she was assaulted in life multiple times.
EXACTLYY
time?
So rude
@@nothing_justchilling29:45
@@nothing_justchilling29:42
I love that they put a moderator but I wish he did better with the interuptions.
For Jubilee this is miles better than in the past lmao
He's been better in other ones. You can tell he was hesitant to try to "take control" given the environment and the subject matter.
i find him very annoying
So annoying. He should stop interruptions not add his own bits
I think they should not have him to be honest, not being rude is just like it unfiltered
But what really bothered me was that the Muslim girl didn't bring up "feminism" in regards to islamophobia. But it holds a huge presence especially when people start criticizing Islam and showing outright hatred because they think it's anti-feminist. When it's not.
It is girl. Have u read the Quran?
@@roselynnwood4657 babes I’m Muslim Ofc I’ve read the Quran
@@aishabjorndalenand Hadiths probably not
@@Badjuda I can assure you I’ve read both the hadiths and the Quran. And I would like to add that perhaps you should listen to the proper explanation and interpretation of the Hadiths and Quran rather than make your own assumption on statements you probably misinterpreted and misunderstood
@@aishabjorndalen I know and I did
The main thing is that one side supports women being whoever they want to be, whatever that definition is to them VS one side that thinks women are one way and should be one way.
That could be said for both sides...
@@Skelovanelol you can’t really believe that
Given that feminists publicly put down being stay at home mothers with a loving husband.
Yeah, you really can.
@@Skelovane yeah no lol
@@AniBerrybear watch it again
What a braindead conversation..
I was in physical pain
America will fall because of these conversations. The liberalisation on the world stage in the last 30 years is gonna cause wars.
Yeah for the most part I just felt like everyone was arguing their personal opinions instead of what the prompt asked… or arguing how the other side is wrong by their opinions. Crazy how no one knows the definition of patriarchy…
anyone else notice the “anti-feminist” were allowed to interrupt with abandon yet anytime the feminist returned that energy it was reprimanded with “let her finish”? i guess if i were to turn this into a productive critique it’d be that maybe one single person is appropriate to moderate EVERY subject/video.
Why? Feminists have the entirety of society coddling them. Not to forget the insults they hurl on social media towards traditional women, the pendulum needs to swing back.
I want to make a point regarding women being happy in the UAE because they know their gender roles - if you are a female UAE national or expat, you have to ask your husband or fathers permission to work, open a bank account, get a drivers license and leave the country. Women who have reported being sexually assaulted have been imprisoned for extramarital sex and the law requires 4* male witnesses to attest to a rape in order for the perpetrator to be convicted. Domestic violence is also very hard to prosecute, especially if the perpetrator is a UAE local (Emirati). Although some women may be happy despite living under these circumstances, there are many who are not but don’t have a choice in the matter because It's illegal to protest or insult the UAE, and their social media is heavily monitored so it’s difficult for locals and expats to speak out about these experiences while they are there. There are a few tourists (both male and female) who have shared their experiences, otherwise it doesn't seem to be common knowledge that there are major injustices and disparities for women there.
* edited to 4 as I mistakenly stated 5 in the original post
About the 5 male witnesses that not true , as a uae local and a woman
Not just that but a lot of what you said is wrong
Why do my replies keep getting deleted?
@@OliviaJohnson-zq5ys I don’t really know, anyway don’t talk in behave of someone who didn’t ask you to , not just that but there is some lies too
exactly 27:00 the anti-feminist said they feel excluded because the feminist movement doesn't encourage them to do what they want which is the conserative role but when she says she wants to go work the anti feminist are not letting her be what she wants to do as awoman
@@UncleTom854-bm5lv i time marked it
Omg not this woman defending Andrew Tate 🤦🏻♀️ that's a losing argument
Andrew Tate is actually innocent
Wait how’s this true is there a conviction
@@ibrahimyusuf9368 Go look into the allegations and you will see
@@saej3954wdym he’s in jail rn for s*x trafficking
You watch clips by anti Tate creators and dismiss anyone who likes him.
This wasn’t a productive discussion 🤝
69 likes 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I agree it was all fluff.
Opinions with no valid points.
& when white girl red top said “anyone who identifies as a woman” pretty sure she’s a male. 😅
@@rachaelginders369 You mean brown top?
yeah there is pretty much no middle ground 😭😭people are just sticking their shoes in the dirt and not budging
Agreed
the way she said “we need to teach these kids how to speak out” was legit implying that yes it’s fine if it happens but we need to teach them to speak out. last time I checked we need to prevent anything from happening ….. not once did i hear her mention that we need to just have WOMEN using women bathrooms and MEN using men bathrooms
Imagine someone acting on every inhumane thing u can think of then converting to another religion and being forgiven💀
Grew up Muslim. That whole moment was cringe af.
@@amiraking6688Same. Not a Muslim anymore though
It's not the conversion that gets them forgiven...it's the remorse. If someone converts just to aim to have their sins removed, obviously that conversion is not genuine and they won't be forgiven just like that. People who truly convert are never confident that they'll be forgiven.
😂ikr
True remorse and full repentance is what is needed. You can’t just claim it and be forgiven. You are ignorant lol
If you want rights and your voice to be heard on any platform as a woman you're not anti feminist, you literally choose to benefit from feminism when you can be living in the olden times.
thank you 🙏🏻
The fact that the girl said ''I can work and go to school'' while disregarding that feminism is the reason why...
Feminists didn´t win anything, didn´t overpower men, didn´t gain victories, they were granted those benefits by the will of men.
By the same logic every black person should be a republican or they want to be slaves again
Women had platforms before. Y'all didn't achieve anything. Stop gaslighting us.
The slavery was bad but at least I'm a US citizen take was... wow. What is wrong with her?
Smh I had the same reaction
Yeah... she wylin
I was looking for this comment because that remark was soooo absurd 😳😱🗑️
I know omg
A feminist is someone who supports gender equality and equal rights for all people, regardless of gender. It’s got nothing to do with calling men toxic, or hating them. It’s acknowledging and living into the value that women have as much value as men. The patriarchy most societies accept makes these conversations confusing and convoluted. Call yourself whatever you want-either you accept women as having equal value, or you don’t. Feminism is equality, period. Calling yourself an anti feminist is basically saying you don’t believe it.
that lady in the blue saying “the ONLY thing we can do is teach children how to tell you when it happens” in response for how to protect children from molesters and rapists is wild… 43:39
I understand why she said that it’s the only thing. But she has to also understand there are ways to protect children rather than just teach them like they’re in another class just for that we just need to come up with a system better than that.
That's exactly what I was thinking because when a child has to "tell you when it happens" it means the damage has already been done, the child has already been scarred, so it's not a way of prevention but just a way to resolve it. But it's always better to prevent than try to cure / resolve.
Basically saying "yeah, it's gonna happen eventually and we will have to pick up the pisses to clean the mess."
@@kahp1072 i think you might actually have meant, ¨pick up the *pieces¨....*
She’s a councillor for rape victims so her job is literally to respond to victims after they’ve been assaulted. I guess she thinks that way because it’s her job.
I'd love to see a debate between people who are Pro-euthanasia and Anti-euthanasia
This!!!!!!!!
That would be an interesting on I learned what that was in my family studies class last semester
@@omotayosatuyi252 I'm interested to know what you think
FRRRRRRR
There was something similar to it. It was pro death penalty versus anti -death penalty
As a Muslim woman who wears the hijab, I lost brain cells. This is what she choices to do with her platform?
Depends which country
Muslim women in Denmark, England, Sweden are more free
I don’t understand what she did wrong?
@@market_is_closedur brainwashed Andrew is our Muslim brother now wt^ are you saying he’s changing for the better
*Chooses* to do not chOIcEs
@@market_is_closedliterally 🤦🏻♀️ a woman is judged for not wearing a hijab even reverts but Andrew Tate can get away with everything 😒 the religion isn’t sexist but ALOT of Muslim men sure are. We as Muslim women know it better than anyone
i like reading the subtitles and seeing (speaking over each other) LET THE CHAOS BEGUN!!!
the expectation for women to be hairless literally came about because of men and the patriarchy. it’s so ridiculous to act like someone acknowledging that is somehow “blaming everything on the patriarchy.”
that made me so mad. Shes dense understand the idea of SOCIETAL NORMS
That's not because of men and the patriarchy. That's because humans tend to generalize things to extremes. In fact, it's likely something animals in general do.
That is, people observe men are generally much hairier than women, so they believe "women should be hairless and men should be hairy".
It's caused by faulty reasoning, not "the patriarchy". I know it might come as a shocker to some feminists, but there are much better explanations than "the patriarchy". Sometimes, things happen in spite of a patriarchy, not because of it.
@@virgodemwhy is that then men that are in high fashion or/and modelling are generally not hairy at all and mostly shaved. Same in porno? So what? Do they want to seem more feminine then? And why is that a standard only for women?
No one is forcing you to shave your armpits, 🤦
@mariaannenkova7954 as much as men may want to impose their will on women and get gratification from it, women have had "woman's body" movement for as long as iv been alive in terms of being the ones that run their bodies, it could be as simple as a social norm for people feeling more attractive due to these norms, to apply this to men being the reason for women shaving is a victim complex. If you disagree with me, argue with me please
"When your a white woman, the only oppression you face in your life is being a woman". What about the other infinite amount of factors that shape the way you experience life? It's sad that people see gender, race and sexuality as the defining factors in someones life, and decide how oppressed or privileged someone is based on which of those categories they fit into.
Let me guess: You're White, Straight, Christian, and Male?
Are you white too
@@ethandollarhide7943Shalom. How's your synagogue doing today?
It's not sad, it's the deliberate consequence of the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act.
If you can incite strife in a population through subversive acts, you can get away with a lot.
Malcom X went into detail on the |||perpetrators||| of this behavior.
What other factors?
You can’t be pro-woman and try to push YOUR idea of how a woman should live. It’s doing the same thing you are critiquing.
I've been saying this!!! It literally doesn't make sense.
this is a "All of you are wrong" argument
They didn’t critique how other women live though??? They spoke about homosexuality but it was irrelevant (just like those with disabilities etc.) to the argument. A majority of women are straight because we biologically have to be to procreate with men and to continue the human race. Lesbians are a minority of us just like trans men etc.
That’s a reductive mischaracterization of feminism. If you live according to or in support of a system that limits and harms a lot of people-you included, it’s a problem that should be pointed out.
Absolutely couldn't agree more !
How can anyone ever be against their own rights