The Importance of Doctor Who's Cult of Skaro

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ธ.ค. 2018
  • After the runaway success of the Daleks' return in Series 1, how did RTD keep the ball rolling with their next appearances?
    Part three in a short video essay series exploring how #DoctorWho showrunner Russell T Davies saved the #Daleks after their downfall in near the end of the 20th Century.
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ความคิดเห็น • 227

  • @AtomicHaven
    @AtomicHaven 4 ปีที่แล้ว +275

    “They survive, they always survive, while I lose everything.” Poor doctor

    • @cameron7441
      @cameron7441 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      see it’s sad because the show recognizes it but the daleks are too much of a cash grab for the doctor to actually destroy them all

    • @olived9560
      @olived9560 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@cameron7441 Using the Daleks each year is actually part of an agreement with the Terry Nation estate (Terry Nation being the creator of the Daleks) to keep the rights to the Daleks, so it’s not necessarily a ‘cash grab’ - but I guess it’s a similar concept.

  • @dalekbumps
    @dalekbumps 3 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    The concept of having a small group of individual Dalek 'characters' cannot be understated. The only problem with the Cult of Skaro as far as I'm concerned is that they weren't around for long enough. Nicholas Briggs had a unique personality in mind for each individual member of the Cult and it's a shame that three of them died in the same story and the last one was unrecognisable in his concluding story - they had immense potential as a vessel for storytelling that I think the writers at the time squandered in favour of cheap finale/hype spectacle

  • @nobodyshome4633
    @nobodyshome4633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +243

    It’s interesting that Daleks In Manhattan + Evolution Of The Daleks was originally meant to be a 3 part story. Overall I still love the story❤️

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Really? I didn't know that!

    • @rhyspage2261
      @rhyspage2261 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      As a concept and as a story I love it, I’d love to see a revised concept of the design as a new Kaled, maybe a more human but quintessentially dalek face, in the same manner as the Silurians. Set against the pure dalek faction

    • @robertmcghintheorca49
      @robertmcghintheorca49 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      JAMIE X Honestly, The Daleks In Manhattan and The Evolution Of The Daleks was a great idea, but it sadly didn't quite end up the way they intended.

  • @atomicvinylreviews3420
    @atomicvinylreviews3420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +351

    I always loved these two episodes and was genuinely surprised that they were generally regarded as bad....

    • @robertmcghintheorca49
      @robertmcghintheorca49 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      ATOMIC VINYL REVIEWS Me too.

    • @AtomicHaven
      @AtomicHaven 4 ปีที่แล้ว +48

      Yes me too. Doctor Who fans are picky as fuck. Even though the worst doctor who episodes are miles better than most crappy CW dramas and procedural cop/surgeon/firefighter/ems shows today.

    • @colinmichels
      @colinmichels 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@AtomicHaven that was until the chibnall era

    • @atomicvinylreviews3420
      @atomicvinylreviews3420 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@colinmichels yep :(

    • @drawde_064
      @drawde_064 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Joseph Douek the only picky fans are the OT fanboys. The sequels deserve the criticism.

  • @charlieharcombe7585
    @charlieharcombe7585 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Dalek sec was arguably the smartest dalek. He was smart enough to realise the flaws in the daleks ideals and plans. “If we are supreme why are we not victorious”

    • @GreaterGrievobeast55
      @GreaterGrievobeast55 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Eh, For all their faults, the real reason the daleks are struggling is mostly cause they were all still recovering from the time war and getting into the doctors business while they were still building their numbers back up. If they had picked another relatively time sensitive world to travel to their plans with the genesis arc probably would’ve worked.

    • @charlieharcombe7585
      @charlieharcombe7585 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@GreaterGrievobeast55 In the stolen earth they had regained their power and still lose. Also the Daleks lost in the first place which would also mean that they aren’t victorious and thus aren’t supreme

  • @METEPATAWASHERE
    @METEPATAWASHERE 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I love Dalek Sec. He is my favorite Dalek (Asides from the Dalek, in "Dalek" episode). And just love this quote "if you choose death and destruction, then death and destruction will choose you". It's been so many years since he became my favorite Dalek, and one of my favorites characters. Never understood why so many people hate Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks. :(

    • @chaossmith3864
      @chaossmith3864 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Bit late to the party, but my guess is the differences between Daleks and what Sec became. I think they don't like the idea of a Dalek becoming something more.
      Personally I love it and it's a huge part of why Sec is my favorite too!

  • @bmvthemoviefanatic7282
    @bmvthemoviefanatic7282 4 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    RIGHT! "Daleks In Manhatten" and "Evolution Of The Daleks" I've always thought phenomenally explored what it means to be a Dalek and challenges it in new ways to add more depth to the villains. People shouldn't overlook it cause it not an epic finale or..."Dalek".

    • @hollywark2885
      @hollywark2885 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Exactly this is one of my favourite stories of all time, it made me see the Daleks in a huge new light instead of treating them as generic villains. I loved the setting and the side characters, I didn't realise people even had an issue with it.

  • @mac1991seth
    @mac1991seth 4 ปีที่แล้ว +79

    I actually liked this two-parter. It's not set in the finale, so it doesn't transfer too largely into the next episode, doesn't end on a cliffhanger. It was an interesting twist on the Dalek lore and new conflict for the Doctor to explore. I'd say these two episodes are needlessly underappreciated.

    • @hollywark2885
      @hollywark2885 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Completely agree. This was always my favourite Dalek story because it allowed them to develop and breathe as characters and we saw them at their most vulnerable. Plus David Tennant is always a joy to watch and I love seeing him working with the Daleks.

    • @gremlinwc8996
      @gremlinwc8996 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@hollywark2885 and the soundtrack was some of the best of Murray Gold

    • @hollywark2885
      @hollywark2885 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@gremlinwc8996 Agreed the music is soo good!! The evolution of the daleks song is incredible.

  • @227060
    @227060 4 ปีที่แล้ว +147

    Honestly sans the dodgy accents there is nothing wrong with this story. Certainly not enough to reduce the writer to tears (that really happened)

    • @AtomicHaven
      @AtomicHaven 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      227060 Right? People amount a couple dodgy accents and an ugly mask to a bad story. And that is why I rarely go into Doctor Who groups anymore.

    • @227060
      @227060 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      @@AtomicHaven Honestly Dr. Who and Sonic are the worst fandoms in terms of division. I suppose it's inevitable because you have 13+ versions of the lead and however many showrunners and comanion teams.
      Nevertheless people in the Who fandom I find are weirdly myopic when it comes to analyzing certain stories. I legit heard someone claim Smith was better than Tennant because he was more 'Doctor-ish'...wtf is 'Doctor-ish'? Because Smith sure as shit was nothing like Hartnell who is surely the guy who defines whatever the fuck Doctor-ish is.

    • @AtomicHaven
      @AtomicHaven 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      227060 I don’t get why a lot of Who fans are so picky. Even the worst Doctor Who stories are miles better than most slog on cable now, only a few shows could compete with the scale of greatness. (Breaking Bad, Game of thrones, Sopranos, West Wing, etc.) And that age of television is over

    • @iHuzza
      @iHuzza 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      227060 As much as I agree that the DW fanbase can be complete cancer, the claim that Smith is more “Doctor-ish” than Tennant does kind of make sense. The 10th Doctor was incredibly human and often lacked the eccentricity/otherworldliness that most of the other incarnations possess, which definitely isn’t helped by his era’s emphasis on family & character drama.

    • @erikalieben5476
      @erikalieben5476 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@iHuzza Lol you do remember that Moffat's era had Rory and Amy having baby drama in the Tardis and River Song being revealed as their baby. Hell people were even speculating at the time that the 11th Doctor was the baby daddy. Smith's era is just as if not more obsessed with family drama. Calling the RTD era a soap opera is just a cheap shot when Moffat's era was way more soapy.

  • @EnsoTB
    @EnsoTB 4 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    I have a deep love for Martha’s characterisation and I think she is easily on par with the rest of the companions. I struggled to watch the Eleventh doctors series’ and stopped watching for years, but Amy was an excellent companion. Headstrong, stubborn, kind and clever, I cannot fault her character. I think these are all the traits found in Martha too. She was all of these things but I think being sandwiched between Rose, the companion that set the stage for useful, resourceful female sidekicks: and Donna, played by Catherine Tate, an already well loved U.K. personality and (relatively) fresh comedic/loving/less intelligent but even more stubborn take on the companion, Martha gets lost.

    • @TheRock-dp3vh
      @TheRock-dp3vh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Agreed Martha was very watchable and had great chemistry with anyone she met. Her character was so independent and resourceful but also down to earth and relatable. She's worlds ahead of the insufferable Clara.

    • @frde2190
      @frde2190 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      The only problem with Amy is her treatment of Rory. She was absolutely vile to him and tried to cheat on him multiple times. She also hit him a lot and divorced him after Rory literally guarded her for 2000 years.

  • @themaskedfacade9939
    @themaskedfacade9939 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Something I love about Sec is that even before the hybridization, he questioned the Dalek cause. Gaining human emotions certainly helped, yes, but he acknowledges that Daleks may very well not be the superior race. "If Daleks are superior, then why are we not victorious?"

  • @kiapandora2094
    @kiapandora2094 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    If the Dalek Sec hybrid would have survived,it could have ended all the pain and suffering of the daleks and a stop to all the hate and fighting. I like to think in an alternate universe,Dalek Sec survived and there is a planet full of peaceful hybrids.

    • @rogersstinson4019
      @rogersstinson4019 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I guess Sec was just lucky and the other daleks weren’t.

    • @gremlinwc8996
      @gremlinwc8996 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Or it could've culminated in a second dalek civil war, where the Daleks are fighting for either peace or dalek supremacy

  • @cameroncaws5959
    @cameroncaws5959 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    The Cult of Skaro should've survived as recurring villains. Bringing the Daleks back properly ruined Journey's End. Imagine if every Dalek episode from this point onwards was just those four, keep up this illusion that a full empire Daleks are practically unbeatable.

  • @monorayjak4377
    @monorayjak4377 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Honestly, those episodes are some of my favorite Dalek episodes. Doesnt hurt that i also love the Human-Dalek Hybrid design used for Sec

    • @prestonjones1653
      @prestonjones1653 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I still think that a human-falek hybrid should have looked like the ancient Kaleds, but to each their own.

    • @gremlinwc8996
      @gremlinwc8996 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Same, I honestly don't get why people hate evolution of the daleks. Although Tallulah's accent is kinda goofy, she's a really supportive character of Laszlo and Martha and she really helps the story along. The Pig Slaves and Dalek Sec hybrid are supposed to look a bit mismatched because they are, and honestly they don't even look that bad. Soundtrack is near perfect, the action is really good, it's a really original dalek story that explores them in an interesting way, etc

  • @lukelandis3090
    @lukelandis3090 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    “THIS IS NOT WAR! THIS IS PEST CONTROL!”
    Yes, I did look this up in order to get it right, why do you ask?

    • @aionicthunder
      @aionicthunder 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      “THIS IS NOT WAR! THIS IS CYBERBULLYING!”

    • @lukelandis3090
      @lukelandis3090 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@aionicthunder Huh? I think you're also making a joke, but I don't get it. I'm just quoting a completely different (but related) episode. It's a gag I used to do.

    • @aionicthunder
      @aionicthunder 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Luke Landis Then allow me to show you one of the greatest videos I’ve ever seen: m.th-cam.com/video/VmMxz4cMKuc/w-d-xo.html

    • @melancholymelon5316
      @melancholymelon5316 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@aionicthunder Aha yes the bitch fight of canary wharf
      Cyberman: identify yourself
      Dalek: daleks do not follow orders
      Cyberman: you identify as dalek
      Dalek: bugger that was good
      Cyberman: cybermen are known for their superior intellect
      Dalek: so you are cybermen
      Cyberman: bugger

    • @custommediacreations
      @custommediacreations 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@melancholymelon5316 Don’t forget the “Disco Balls.”

  • @farashahanem
    @farashahanem 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I love the Daley’s In Manhattan two-parter! I swatched it the first time with my daughter years ago and was blown away by the depth of the story.
    I miss good old New Who. 😭💔💔

    • @farashahanem
      @farashahanem 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I just reread this now, and see that Autocorrect strikes again! 😑

    • @farashahanem
      @farashahanem 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Dear Stupid Smartphone,
      It's DALEKS In Manhattan, DALEKS! And CLEARLY you've been hanging out in the beauty community too long if you think I SWATCH television. 😑🙄📱 *KICKS her phone*

    • @puppyendorsement3314
      @puppyendorsement3314 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@farashahanem You know you could just edit it?

    • @faealbahrani8821
      @faealbahrani8821 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I miss good old new how as well especially after the crap I saw In season 11,12 . I miss when doctor who made me laugh and cry my eyes out in the same episode.

    • @hollywark2885
      @hollywark2885 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      This is one of my favourite stories. Setting the story in Hooverville was genius and allows for such brilliant character moments.

  • @olived9560
    @olived9560 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks are actually one of my favourite Dalek stories, precisely because they’re *not* a finale and *not* focused on high stakes and drama, instead giving us space and moments to think about what the Daleks truly are. And I do really like it being set in the past, it makes it much easier for the setting to have a distinguishable atmosphere than stories set in the present day.

  • @critica77y77
    @critica77y77 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I like this two-parter, though I really wish the hybrids had survived.

  • @gamewithadam7235
    @gamewithadam7235 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    Sec should have destroyed the rest of the cult and shown his more destructive dalek side and have him as a companion who's unbridled rage can get the better of him. Also would have loved to have seen his interactions with the supreme dalek and davros.

    • @kiapandora2094
      @kiapandora2094 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I agree 100%. Would have made a hell of a companion.

    • @whistlingstarlight2942
      @whistlingstarlight2942 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Definitely, we haven't had much (if anything) by way of alien companions in the revival series, especially compared to how many were in the classic show. Would've been interesting to see Sec join the TARDIS

  • @flameflamedramonva
    @flameflamedramonva 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Since the Cult of Siarro are trchnically time travelers, we could see them again, Sec is one of my favorite characters

  • @Joey15811
    @Joey15811 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I personally love the series 3 dalek 2 parter. Its different to to the normal dalek stories and sees the cults main task of exploring ways of survival explored.

  • @dmaxwell910901
    @dmaxwell910901 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    6:06 That's not actually true. In Parting of the Ways, there were half a million daleks. In Doomsday there were, as the Doctor said, "millions".

  • @snazzyquizzes2336
    @snazzyquizzes2336 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I think Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks was good. One of the best in its series, actually.

  • @garylouk8776
    @garylouk8776 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I’ve always had a soft spot for this two parter. I love the setting and the daleks were great

  • @andrewbergman1122
    @andrewbergman1122 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    You got a subscribe for #Justice4Martha. Glad I found your channel.

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Martha is my favourite RTD era companion!

    • @puppyendorsement3314
      @puppyendorsement3314 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@HarboWholmes I prefer Rose, Martha was a bit forgetful(maybe it's because I haven't watched the show in about a year) for me, but I'd be open to changing my mind.

  • @harrykelly8003
    @harrykelly8003 5 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    Very well done essays! I really enjoyed watching them. Are you working on a part 4? Either way I'm looking forward to seeing what you create next!

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank you so much! And yes, I'm currently working hard on the final part to be released early next week

  • @lilajean8146
    @lilajean8146 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    8:40 Clara's theme starts playing, and I am like, "Aww, I love Clara!" Then I realized the connection between the Darleks and Clara, and started crying!!! That scene always gets me!!!
    "I AM NOT A DARLEK, I AM HUMAN!!!"

  • @itskashkashi
    @itskashkashi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I dont remember the episode but rusty saying "you are a good dalek" to the doctor really had an impact on me.

  • @barneyborbone4079
    @barneyborbone4079 5 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    I mean there were 400,000 Daleks in the Season one finale, but a million plus four million cyber men. So the stakes were definitely raised.

    • @Lockeedman
      @Lockeedman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Pretty sure it was 5 million cybermen. And the Genesis Ark was said to hold "millions" of daleks. But you could argue the Ark didnt have enough time to eject all of the daleks (despite the fact it isn't flinging anymore out when it gets sucked into the void). Or it wasn't full?

  • @richardbuckley1232
    @richardbuckley1232 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    These episodes are so underrated. I really like them.

    • @erikalieben5476
      @erikalieben5476 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This is my favourite Dalek story. It makes me really angry to hear that Helen Raynor received abuse from the idiot fanboys over this.

    • @richardbuckley1232
      @richardbuckley1232 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@erikalieben5476 I totally agree!

  • @jb888888888
    @jb888888888 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It's too bad that the Daleks never encountered the _real_ Cybermen.

  • @marilynmalone1381
    @marilynmalone1381 5 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    great video, totally agree, underrated story :)

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you! I really wish the episode didn't get all the hate it gets, it deserves more

  • @TereziPyrope413
    @TereziPyrope413 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I watched like 3 videos (including this one) and I loved them all. Keep up the amazing work.

  • @class87fan54
    @class87fan54 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I actually like Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks. True, Tallulah was annoying, but the basic story was fine, certainly better than the rubbish Dalek stories in the Moffatt-era.

  • @standardgrapes
    @standardgrapes 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Daleks in Manhattan is probably my favourite dalek episode in New Who

  • @Hammer_Of_Olympia
    @Hammer_Of_Olympia 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I always find that scene where the Dalek kills two cyber men, they are across the hall but teleport to the Dalek to fall. And I just found this channel but I have to say these videos are well made, keep it up man.

  • @geekyradical4985
    @geekyradical4985 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Dalek Sec's assimilation of a human and change in personality could be seen as a metaphor for Jesus. God in the Old Testament was consistently cold and unforgiving before becoming human and the Hebrews expected that once that happened, they'd get a ruthless strategist to lead them to salvation, but they instead got a merciful pacifist and as a result, turned on him like what the daleks did to Sec. They couldn't have a nice leader either.

    • @ontos8914
      @ontos8914 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It just isnt a metaphor for that tho

    • @TranscendentLion
      @TranscendentLion ปีที่แล้ว

      I think it's a mistake to think of God as unforgiving in the Old Testament. Yes, he makes it clear that he is not someone you want to mess with, but at the same time he is incredibly generous to the Hebrews, taking them back even after they betray him, on numerous occasions. If the relationship between God and his people is like a marriage, some have even interpreted God as akin to an abused partner constantly forgiving the other's errors.

  • @DaraGaming42
    @DaraGaming42 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This Daleks in Manhattan is one of my favorite 2 Parters

  • @melancholymelon5316
    @melancholymelon5316 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I always get goosebumps in rtd era reveals the best being the cult of scaro in army of ghosts and the exterminate audio in stolen earth even when I knew the daleks would be there that moment is brilliant the fear in everyone even jack as the daleks voice echoes across the world it's the best reveal in doctor who history in my opinion

  • @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770
    @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 5 ปีที่แล้ว +182

    Oh yeah, the daleks killed people in the Davies era. People died. None of that everybody lives crap.

    • @Wolfoe-ex2jj
      @Wolfoe-ex2jj 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

      Definitely, that added so much weight when everyone could live. “Just this once, everyone lives!”

    • @s.31.l50
      @s.31.l50 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Wolfoe 3604 oh yes! “Are you my mummy?”

    • @madanotap6492
      @madanotap6492 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I’m not quite sure what you mean? The show is still like that? It never stopped?

  • @colinp2238
    @colinp2238 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Did they have the Doctor in close up shouting, "Daaaaaalek Khaaaaaan!!!!"?

  • @StarWarsomania
    @StarWarsomania 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very nice analysis. You deserve much higher view counts for these and more subs ;)

  • @Jamescushing51
    @Jamescushing51 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I’m gonna be completely honest I’m not ashamed to say it, please respect my opinion
    DALEKS IN MANHATTAN AND EVOLUTION OF THE DALEKS ARE MY THIRD FAVOURITE DOCTOR WHO STORY AND MY SECOND FAVOURITE DALEK STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • @erikalieben5476
      @erikalieben5476 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yes this is definitely my favourite Dalek story and easily one of my favourite stories in the show. The whole look, setting, depth of characters, historical context was amazing and I don't care what anyone says.

  • @marksenior6101
    @marksenior6101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Enjoyed you video thanks. I have always loved these episodes too

  • @mimiHTcat
    @mimiHTcat 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    very well put!

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you! Glad you enjoyed watching

  • @YT-fn2wm
    @YT-fn2wm 5 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    You deserve WAY more subs and views!

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Aw, thank you! I just like to share my thoughts and interpretations, so I'm glad you like it!

  • @LordFindogask734
    @LordFindogask734 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I hope your videos get more views. They are brilliant.

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      That means so much to me, thank you! I'm just going to keep plugging away as long as I enjoy making them :)

  • @Michael-yf6bl
    @Michael-yf6bl 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    5:13 Eh I don't know I mean did you see how many cybermen they killed without losing a single dalek before they opened the ark

  • @davincent98
    @davincent98 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    🎶Spider-Pig, Spider-Pig,
    Does whatever a Spider-Pig does.
    Can he swing
    From a web?
    No he can't,
    He's a pig.
    Look oooouuuuutttttt
    Her comes the Spider-Pig."

  • @John-cl9uq
    @John-cl9uq 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    ok so.....here me out if the cyberman want to be upgraded or something like that what if the cyberman transformed the Daleks into a indestructible being and what if the Doctor got hold of that being like as a guardian or as a sentry for the tardis

    • @Devastator21
      @Devastator21 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      For the master mabey but with the doctor it has to be similar to handles I think for the doctor to ever consider his worst enemies being in his tardis

    • @themostbritishpersonalive868
      @themostbritishpersonalive868 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Devastator21 nah a cyber dalek would just kill the master and then never appear again probably

    • @TranscendentLion
      @TranscendentLion ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Devastator21 In 'Scream of the Shalka' (an animated story from 2003, with Richard E. Grant as the Doctor), the Doctor has an android version of the Master (played by none other than Sir Derek Jacobi) guarding his TARDIS.

  • @samuelbarber4154
    @samuelbarber4154 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I still feel like more could be done with Dalek/Cybermen war. Especially with the advent of a Death Particle.

  • @Alia-bc3rc
    @Alia-bc3rc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The only thing I don't like from the two-parter is because the pace kinda drags. A lot of running around without really moving forward. But Dalek Sec is *awesome*. The theme of race purity is also apt with the setting.

  • @anemictant587
    @anemictant587 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nicely done. You deserve more likes for it...

  • @REFLEXiw
    @REFLEXiw 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    6:48 I remember in The Dalek Tapes documentary from the Genesis DVD, maybe Terrance or someone said it, but after the first Dalek stories all of them featured either companions leaving or dying and I feel like Rusty was echoing that here

  • @samuelbarber4154
    @samuelbarber4154 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Although, the Doctor, in the Time War's case, thought Gallifrey was destroyed and not just in a time pocket or something.

  • @MalcolmMXTaylor
    @MalcolmMXTaylor 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The five doctors in the classic series had daleks and cybermen, so this was not the first time

  • @michaelcarter9395
    @michaelcarter9395 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The main problem with DALEKS TAKE MANHATTAN is that DR.WHO never writes Americans accurately.

    • @JOCoStudio1
      @JOCoStudio1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Oh, as a British viewer I never noticed anything beyond somewhat corny writing. Would be interested to know what bits of American culture were completely misunderstood.

    • @TheLewistownTrainspotter8102
      @TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think it's interesting to think that they originally planned to film this two-parter on location.

  • @britanimations2002
    @britanimations2002 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love Daleks in Manhatten and Evolution of the Daleks and the fact that they were written by a woman is amazing, however I feel its a shame Moffat never penned the stories, it would've been lovely to realise earlier on that Moffat and Dalek stories go just about as well as nails and a chalk board, perhaps some future mistakes, not naming any Asylums I mean names, could've been avoided

  • @christophersheets5452
    @christophersheets5452 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Its like the Star Wars Prequels. On paper, these episodes should be great. Execution was a little wonky. Things could have been done to make these episodes live up to the caliber of the other Dalek episodes but it wasn’t a bad couple of episodes. Maybe this is just what its like when RTD doesn’t write a dalek two parter

  • @10thdoctor15
    @10thdoctor15 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    To say that Daleks in Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks were the weakest Dalek Story in the RTD era probably wouldn't be incorrect, but that doesn't mean they're a poor story, anything but.

  • @presentfuture7563
    @presentfuture7563 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I cannot stop bingewatching this channel now that I've found it, not gonna lie #quarantinelyfe

  • @TheWhovinerd-1963
    @TheWhovinerd-1963 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’ve always believed that Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks is a very underrated story. I highly disagree with the popular opinion that it is a terrible story because it actually isn’t. If you can look past the bad accents, peculiar setting, green screens and campiness it’s actually a very good story once you understand it’s purpose and meaning. The most important character to this story isn’t the Doctor or Martha it’s Dalek Sec and his gradual transformation of humanity. Each scene we see him he becomes more and more human and also the wiser he becomes. Dalek sec is arguably the most intelligent and wisest Dalek to have ever lived, by embracing his emotions and defying the philosophy of his creator he realised that the Daleks were always destined for extinction because of their obsessive need for Purity. He is so desperate to teach his old comrades that they must change their old ways if they hope to survive but The Daleks cannot let go of their purity and Facias ideologies to the point where they even betray their old friend and demoralise him keeping him a reminder of shame. The doctor is even heartbroken and furious at the death of Sec because it was the first time that his greatest enemy became his best ally and the closest he came to saving the Dalek race without killing them. I wish that Sec had stayed as a temporary companion with the doctor finding a new planet 🌎 to inhabit and populate but obviously this didn’t happen. Props to the actor Eric Loren for giving a fantastic performance as both Mr. Diageross and Sec (I at first thought that were two different actors) he does a really good job at conveying a Dalek with emotions. Overall I give the story an 8/10. The final confrontation with Dalek Caan at the end is also beautiful because it shows that the doctor despite all the murder and destruction is willing to save his oldest enemy from extinction because he has seen too much death and destruction over the centuries. I also feel the story is a nice call back to evil of the Daleks while still managing to be it’s own unique story. Ofc ppl will disagree with me and that’s okay to each their own as they say xx

  • @SkyHigh_xx
    @SkyHigh_xx 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    i honestly adored these episodes and saw them as strong and plot heavy episodes

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Your videos are great. I love Doctor Who TH-camrs like you and Samuel Davies. I could do with less Classic Who spoilers tho ;)

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you! And sorry, Classic Who is kinda hard not to spoil. I'll try not to in the future haha!

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@HarboWholmes - no, no, it's always relevant when you use it, but a warning at the beginning or in the description would be awesome. I've just started watching Classic Who. Doctor Who and The Silurians wasn't the best, but Spearhead from Space was great!

    • @leedent7260
      @leedent7260 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nightowl8477 I love that one, classic Auton introduction? And a good intro for Pertwee despite the lower budget Nestene consciousness which was more squid like?

  • @10thdoctor15
    @10thdoctor15 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    There weren't more Daleks in The Parting of the Ways, the Doctor says that 2,000 Daleks on board each of 200 ships is about half a million Daleks, whereas there were millions of Daleks in the Genesis Ark.

  • @autumnmatthews3179
    @autumnmatthews3179 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I so miss those days

  • @iqceo4276
    @iqceo4276 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Every time this guy says: ‘Dalek’ take a shot

  • @Zazabazaa
    @Zazabazaa 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Helen should have been the writer to go on the work on the first female Doctor...

  • @d8ily
    @d8ily 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    10:06 oh boy, just wait until this new season.

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just to note, there were only half a million Daleks in The Parting of The Ways.

  • @GoddessOfWhim2003
    @GoddessOfWhim2003 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i'm rewatching Doctor Who and my next episodes are Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks.

  • @LadyDoomsinger
    @LadyDoomsinger 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would honestly have preferred if Rose Tyler had died, rather than just being stuck in a parallel universe; I love the tragic elements of the Time War and the Doctor (supposedly) being the Last Timelord. It gave a certain gravitas to his character, and in general I just find tragedies greatly underappreciated in modern media; It's not demoralizing at all, to see a beloved character enduring hardships and loss - on the contrary, seeing a fictional character deal with and overcome personal tragedies is incredibly inspiring, as it gives me hope that whatever adversity I face in my life, I too can persevere.

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    The Cult of Skaro were wasted. I've written a Dalek story in the style of a nazi experiment type thing. It's a great idea from Russel.

    • @JoesAnimationHub
      @JoesAnimationHub 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm planning something with the infamous cult for something of my own... a little two part episode in a crossover series (so each episode would be a different crossover in animation, I'm guilty of being indulgent like this... I am an animator though 😅) I want to do as a project... with the Doctor's present being the Cult's past with 10 having to set up his own past for the events of Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks (much like how 7 did in the comic "Emperor of the Daleks").

  • @dustinhatfield8373
    @dustinhatfield8373 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There are so many episodes I didn't realize people hated. Like yeah not every episode is a banger but why do some people even watch the show if they hate so many good ones too lol

    • @erikalieben5476
      @erikalieben5476 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree why do people watch the show just to give good episodes hate. These episodes have always been one of my favourites. The whole point of Doctor Who is take you into different worlds and this episode did that so beautifully. This is a million times better than Chibnall and Moffat's Dalek episodes yet the virgins on Outpost Gallifrey

  • @KM-dk5gn
    @KM-dk5gn 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Personally, I really liked those episodes, I think they were some of the more interesting episodes featuring the Daleks.

  • @dyerdude8490
    @dyerdude8490 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video but a newspaper didn’t really ruin the reveal of the darleks in series 3 considering the episode literally has them in the title so if anything the show ruined the reveal

  • @stacyardus3898
    @stacyardus3898 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    it would be funny if the cult of scaros names were Dalek 1, dalek 2, dalek 3 and dalek 4 ahahah

  • @deadgirldigest5967
    @deadgirldigest5967 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    7:16 perhaps that is why the Doctor has this aloof attitude towards Martha.

  • @tomnorton4277
    @tomnorton4277 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love Dalek Caan. Dalek Sec is great too but his development was mainly a result of him turning into a human hybrid. Caan was still 100% Dalek when he had his change of heart. He's actually the only Dalek apart from Rusty who turned on his race without needing to be part human.

  • @zig131
    @zig131 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The stupid ending ruined it for me with DNA somehow being transferred by electricity WTF? Pig people kinda sucked too.
    But yeh thematically they were good episodes

    • @mjudec
      @mjudec 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It would make more sense if he was somehow an insulator and reduced the amount of dalek DNA that merged, allowing them to retain their humanity. I get the foreshadowing bit, but they didn't need to be part Time Lord. The very humanity which the cult set out to distill is the thing that kills their plan.

  • @garfieldorangbutonyoutube1126
    @garfieldorangbutonyoutube1126 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Youre so underrated

  • @mattlord97
    @mattlord97 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Daleks In Manhattan/Evolution Of The Daleks are far from great but they can't be considered the worst when Victory Of The Daleks and Into The Dalek exist lmao

    • @GreaterGrievobeast55
      @GreaterGrievobeast55 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I like both of those stories more actually. Its asylum of the daleks thats like the worst new who dalek episode. Or maybe the witch’s familiar,

  • @stacyardus3898
    @stacyardus3898 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Daleks are too pure to exist in real world.

  • @danielr3244
    @danielr3244 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Why’d you have to put that damn Doomsday theme in there? Why? Why?

  • @MrProbeNWatch
    @MrProbeNWatch 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is part 2 deleted? Can't find it :(

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Really? That's weird, it's definitely still there for me

    • @MrProbeNWatch
      @MrProbeNWatch 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@HarboWholmes Edit: I'M BLIND ignore mr

  • @thomasgodridge5945
    @thomasgodridge5945 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    In theory, this two parter is brilliant. But I think that the execution was poor.

    • @mjudec
      @mjudec 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Agreed, this 15 minute video discussing it shows the good plot points and the fact the underlying story along with the themes are good. But the execution wasn't. Now, that's more on the director (and RTD for his editing) than the writer, but we see what's shown, not what's intended.

  • @AiRsTrIkExXzZ
    @AiRsTrIkExXzZ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I feel sorry for Dalek sec

  • @thatbowiefan6276
    @thatbowiefan6276 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Take a shot every time he says "Daleks."

  • @averyeverest2980
    @averyeverest2980 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’m gonna be hated for this but I’d rather Steven Moffat wrote the dalek story than write blink. I’d like to see what he would’ve done

  • @pillywilly6794
    @pillywilly6794 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    sick

  • @papslap6495
    @papslap6495 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a smashing video.
    Thanks
    Ant p uk Teacher

  • @krissybaglin9206
    @krissybaglin9206 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The one criticism I have of "Daleks take manhattan" is they should have set it in the 1930 instead of the 1920.

    • @ontos8914
      @ontos8914 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why

    • @matthewnaylor9735
      @matthewnaylor9735 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It was set. In 1930

    • @krissybaglin9206
      @krissybaglin9206 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sorry, got mixed up, 1940's instead of 1930's
      The themes of purity and fascism would have stuck a lot harder, they don't tend to talk about the popularity of eugenics and fascism in the allied countries, but in 1939 the 'german american bund' (the US nazi's) filled madison square garden, and post WW2 america brought in 1000+ nazi scientists and gave them high end jobs and such. The daleks always were a parellel of fascists and eugenicisists, yet bar a minor situation in the revolution of the daleks with an oswald mosley stand in did they ever really come into contact with the human equivilant. Human daleks have been done a few similar ways before with stuff like the emporer's daleks and such, but if the daleks could see themselves in humanity as much as they might with bigots and nazis and such, it'd hit a LOT harder

  • @0joshdude
    @0joshdude 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It crazy im listening to you but seeing them flying over London i can hear the dalek them

  • @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770
    @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ohai Rose again. Ohai Martha. Ohai daleks. Ohai cybermen.

  • @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770
    @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Man, poor Doctor. Loses his entire race. Meets his true love, loses her. Atleast he has a best freind, nope, she’s gone. Well atleast he has... ok he doesn’t have anything. Atleast he still has the TARDIS, and his sonic screwdriver. That’s enough, right? Right? Right?? Atleast he’s still alive, no wait, he’s gone now. He’s regenerated into a worse actor. Poor Doctor.

    • @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770
      @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Really makes you think...

    • @barneyborbone4079
      @barneyborbone4079 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Elijah Ford He’s got his race back, and who is his “true love”. And what’s wrong with the actor?

    • @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770
      @elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I’m only looking at the Davies era. Moffat kind of dropped the sad boy characterization. Bringing back Galifrey was a paticularly stupid idea. Do I even have to say who it was? I think it’s pretty fucking obvious. Matt Smith is a worse actor than David Tennant.

    • @cameroncaws5959
      @cameroncaws5959 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 I'd take Smith and Moffat any day over Chibnall and Whitaker

    • @TranscendentLion
      @TranscendentLion ปีที่แล้ว

      @@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 Be fair: Tennant was a much more experienced actor when he was cast, whereas Smith was younger than a lot of actors are when they get their big breaks. I thought Smith was great, and the only criticism I tend to see of his Doctor seems to boil down to the fact that he isn't David Tennant.

  • @whocrusader5179
    @whocrusader5179 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What was this? 0:11

  • @MotRekrab1347
    @MotRekrab1347 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great vid, definitely earnt a subscriber from me!
    #Justice4Martha

  • @TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat
    @TheRandomGuyTheFarNoGameCat 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Evil of The Daleks is superior to Evolution of The Daleks.

  • @abigailxmary
    @abigailxmary 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    nah why did you have to use the doomsday music though, pure triggering

  • @D50Music
    @D50Music 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    4:00