Doctor Who's Darkest Episode?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 507

  • @tahliagreen2595
    @tahliagreen2595 4 ปีที่แล้ว +831

    I think for me personally, this was one of Marthas best stories, i couldn't imagine being in her position. The anger she had to try and hide alongside the fear she felt is really deeply meaningful to me.

    • @cinziacutelle9942
      @cinziacutelle9942 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Martha loved him...and she was the victim of her own unfortunate love...😣

    • @le0marks
      @le0marks 4 ปีที่แล้ว +46

      tbh martha is such an underrated character

    • @AiRsTrIkExXzZ
      @AiRsTrIkExXzZ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @melcdypond I feel people underrate bill because they don’t know she exists. To me it feels like series 10 was sort of forgotten to most people. Also there wasn’t really anything(in my opinion) that really stood her out against the other companions. There might be something that stands her out and I’m just being an idiot though

    • @gregorde
      @gregorde 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@AiRsTrIkExXzZ world enough and time/doctor falls are great

    • @keyblademasterclark
      @keyblademasterclark ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@AiRsTrIkExXzZ BILL WAS FUCKING AMAZING AND I WILL DIE ON THAT HILL!

  • @yourfriendlycynic654
    @yourfriendlycynic654 4 ปีที่แล้ว +605

    I really enjoy the fact that John Smith isn't just written as a saint, or how you'd imagine The Doctor as human to be, like allowing beatings from other students, having the attitudes of the times, but still showing that he has a good heart when seeing the children shooting the rifles

    • @RileyWritey
      @RileyWritey 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      There's a reason The Doctor and The Master are friends

    • @Shay96
      @Shay96 4 ปีที่แล้ว +66

      While he comes across more human than the rest, he is still a timelord. The main difference between him and the other Timelords is his kindness balancing out his arrogance and the perspective he gleans from the companions he travels with. Whenever his arrogance or coldness starts really affecting him, it's often the reaction of his companions, or other humans around him, that snaps him out of it. Take Adelaide's suicide in Waters of Mars snapping him out of "Timelord Victorious", for example.

    • @xGOKOPx
      @xGOKOPx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@RileyWritey Used to be. And notice that the Master wasn't evil when they were friends as children (probably didn't have that name yet even)

    • @ptolemeeselenion1542
      @ptolemeeselenion1542 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hm.

    • @kylenetherwood8734
      @kylenetherwood8734 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      He is what society considered a good man at the time

  • @cursivebinkie6841
    @cursivebinkie6841 4 ปีที่แล้ว +763

    “My family wanted to live forever. So the Doctor made sure that we did.”

    • @desperatemohammedantheworl5833
      @desperatemohammedantheworl5833 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      Then 13 came along and set the mass-murdering little girl alien free for some reason.

    • @Football_Goals_F.C
      @Football_Goals_F.C 4 ปีที่แล้ว +50

      One of the most underrated lines in doctor who history

    • @ThePoke151
      @ThePoke151 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      I loved this line and whole scene, still gives me the shivers

    • @hermiona1147
      @hermiona1147 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Chilling

    • @cinziacutelle9942
      @cinziacutelle9942 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@ThePoke151 Me too! Because as human the Doctor was a cruel guy ...

  • @iusedtowrite6667
    @iusedtowrite6667 4 ปีที่แล้ว +424

    This two-parter really showcased Martha's growth as a character. And the way they dealt with racism and darker themes in such a good way is amazing.

    • @larsswig912
      @larsswig912 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      And I'm also disappointed Martha's line where she proves to the matron that she really is a real doctor after the matron made a remark at her that was both racist and sexist.

    • @sonnykingcomposer
      @sonnykingcomposer 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@larsswig912 was it?

    • @larsswig912
      @larsswig912 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@sonnykingcomposer yeah
      The matron said something about a woman not being able to be a doctor and "certainly not one of your (Martha's) colour"

    • @sonnykingcomposer
      @sonnykingcomposer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@larsswig912 yeah, that's racist, but only because it's historically accurate. So it isn't racist in any offensive way, it's all about historical context 👍

    • @-haclong2366
      @-haclong2366 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Different writers, different scripts.
      They just got a very good writer here that knew what to do with this show.

  • @meanchoccy7445
    @meanchoccy7445 4 ปีที่แล้ว +290

    John Smith's breakdown and speech always breaks me. About what kind of man doesn't consider falling in love. It's heartbreaking.

    • @Comicbroe405
      @Comicbroe405 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Tennant is way too good man.

    • @TheCagedCorvid
      @TheCagedCorvid 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      To be fair, that man recently fell in love, and got burned badly... I can see why he thought it impossible, or couldn't face the thought of it. It breaks me too, but I think it's for a different reason

  • @aaronconway4435
    @aaronconway4435 4 ปีที่แล้ว +404

    One of my favourite things about this story wasn't even in this 2 parter, but during the Doctor's farewell tour at the finale of The End of Time, when he takes time to visit Joan's great-granddaughter, of all the characters that 10 has interacted with, he didn't visit Sally Sparrow, Lady Christina or any other one-time guest stars, but he did for Joan, which proves how much of an impact this story made on the series

    • @robinbull6348
      @robinbull6348 4 ปีที่แล้ว +72

      According to the eleventh Doctor in the Sarah Jane Adventures, the tenth Doctor visited everyone, even from classic who, to make sure they were okay before he regenerated.

    • @aaronconway4435
      @aaronconway4435 4 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@robinbull6348 but we don't see them on screen

    • @DanielDiaz-um1xd
      @DanielDiaz-um1xd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      You beat me to it, I'm not a fan of end of time or all the farewells but this one was good

    • @aaronconway4435
      @aaronconway4435 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@DanielDiaz-um1xd wasn't the biggest fan of End of Time, but I loved every minute from Wilfred knocking on the glass

    • @chriszone50
      @chriszone50 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@aaronconway4435 We haven't seen many things on screen, doesn't mean it didn't happen idiot. Do you think series 1 takes place right after the 1996 movie.

  • @skateordie280
    @skateordie280 2 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    You forgot to mention one of the best and most tragic lines of Family of Blood. The Doctor asks Joan to come with him, she asks "as what?" He says as his companion and she simply responds "that's not fair."
    That is one of my favourite moments, because it just shows the total disconnect between John Smith and The Doctor. He may have the same face, but their differences are greater than what you think.

  • @jvblhc
    @jvblhc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +194

    Another thought: it struck me just now while watching this outstanding video that the story is not so much about The Doctor/John Smith but really about Martha Jones, who is the only person in the room who knows what is actually happening. I think this episode is Martha's shining moment, and Freema Ayeman's too.

    • @TheCagedCorvid
      @TheCagedCorvid 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes! It cemented her as a top tier companion for me. I liked her from the start, but this really showed me WHY she was so great.

  • @HoodoHoodlumsRevenge
    @HoodoHoodlumsRevenge 4 ปีที่แล้ว +311

    I forgot how much I loved this two-parter. It’s shot so beautifully and written so very well. I very much appreciated this video going back through it. Keep up the fantastic work!

    • @AriOrSomething
      @AriOrSomething 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Oh hey, Dennis. (If I'm allowed to call you that)

    • @bradleyeddie8429
      @bradleyeddie8429 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      instaBlaster...

    • @theguardian1622
      @theguardian1622 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You and strider should review dr who

    • @hubbybubby7867
      @hubbybubby7867 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      i love the shot of Baines’ eye during the ending punishment, that shot for some reason resonated with me

    • @wizardstumpt4467
      @wizardstumpt4467 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I knew you loved doctor who

  • @Venemofthe888
    @Venemofthe888 4 ปีที่แล้ว +89

    from what i noticed that the family of blood doesnt seem to blink when they take over a body. To show they are not human anymore even with a slight touch

    • @TheCagedCorvid
      @TheCagedCorvid 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I might have to rewatch it and look out for that... such a subtle thing, but perfect to drag a performance into the uncanny valley

  • @nicolebee3283
    @nicolebee3283 4 ปีที่แล้ว +238

    Brother of Mine was absolutely phenomenal

    • @MatildyMatilduh666
      @MatildyMatilduh666 4 ปีที่แล้ว +38

      "Just shut up, stop talking, cease and desist, there's a good girl! "

    • @nicolebee3283
      @nicolebee3283 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@MatildyMatilduh666 like that or just the *sniffff*

    • @conzchannel5087
      @conzchannel5087 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      You could tell he was having a blast in this role

    • @dan9590
      @dan9590 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      "Have you enjoyed being human, has it taught you wonderful things, are you better, richer, wiser? Then answer me this, which one of them do you want us to kill, maid or matron, your friend or your lover?
      Your choice."

    • @conzchannel5087
      @conzchannel5087 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@dan9590 what are we waiting for? ATTACK!!!!!!

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +61

    Charles Palmer really needs to be brought back, one of my favourite Doctor Who directors. The final shot of Family of Blood brings me to tears every time.
    The composition of the black-gloved hand holding the watch in the foreground, with the red carpet in the background makes a poppy. So simple, so genius. Even the shot before, as an unaged Martha and 10 stand watching Timothy, we hear "Age will not weary them" at the ceremony. Oooh, there's so much to gush about!
    And the shot after Martha goes through the bones if behind, phenomenal set design!

  • @frazzlesreviews5379
    @frazzlesreviews5379 4 ปีที่แล้ว +141

    This story is one of the best constructed scripts I’ve ever seen of any television programme and I say that as someone who regularly reviews media such as film and television.
    I think it’s especially interesting how many subtle nuances and different readings of every scene that people can have for example I never thought about the scene where the Doctor gives out the punishments being a little bit of John Smith left inside him and I always thought of it as a parallel to the series finale in which he tries everything to keep the Master alive after everything abhorrent he did but here tries everything to make them suffer despite their motives only being that they are trying to stay alive and that this is a deconstruction of the Doctor as a person and how he will even contradict himself and go back on his word if it means he gets what he wants.

  • @Neutral_Tired
    @Neutral_Tired 4 ปีที่แล้ว +173

    I should like to point out, the Doctor wasn't punishing people, he was punishing parasites wearing people's corpses, including 2 children, as skinsuits. This is why I hate that 13th Doctor animatic story, this parasite murdered a child and wore her corpse, it doesn't deserve to be freed from that mirror

    • @Neutral_Tired
      @Neutral_Tired 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @ evidently not, many people were saying it was too far

    • @Ozzy_2014
      @Ozzy_2014 4 ปีที่แล้ว +61

      Very true. Innocent people murdered and replaced with an alien wearing their bodies. Its not only evil its an affront and an insult to the people. Don't forget that Daughter of Mine killed Lucy Cartwright AND her entire family upon returning to the Cartwright house. The body count was very high. Lives ruined. All this because the Doctor was being kind. At the end he was backed into a corner. To be kind to monsters meant the terror and death if good people. That can't be allowed to continue. So he gave them what they wanted. Eternity. Stuck where time will not pass.

    • @scotcheggable
      @scotcheggable 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      They were attempting to fulfill their biological function.
      Something which the doctor could have prevented and chose not to.
      This story is essentially like putting a baby in with a lion and then getting angry that the lion ate the baby and blaming it all on the lion.

    • @lewiskazinsky7334
      @lewiskazinsky7334 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Barbara Zhang Ainley!Master deserved an entire arc. Like Lucifer in Supernatural, his body should’ve been rotting under the strain of a Time Lord consciousness, as he makes increasingly desperate attempts to possess the Doctor. Instead, he hijacked Concords and accidentally shrunk himself down before becoming a furry. Idc if it’s heresy, the Master was completely wasted after Logopolis.

    • @jacobcadd1604
      @jacobcadd1604 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@scotcheggable Not an excuse, they killed innocent people for fun. they deserved what they got.

  • @The_D0C70R
    @The_D0C70R 3 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    The sudden shift in personality when the Doctor catches the watch is brilliantly acted

    • @AllThePiecesMatter_
      @AllThePiecesMatter_ 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Agreed. I'd add that on first broadcast that was a punch-the-air moment.

  • @CineScarborough
    @CineScarborough 4 ปีที่แล้ว +95

    I hated this episode as a kid because I didn't like how the Doctor was replaced with some human equivalent called John Smith, but as an adult I think it's an absolute classic. It's a very powerful episode with some wonderful dramatic beats.

    • @cameroncaws8506
      @cameroncaws8506 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      And then this was followed up by Blink. This series effectively had a run if three back to back Doctor lite episodes, as a kid I hated it and honestly it was a ballsy move.

  • @itzimperiumxvi2620
    @itzimperiumxvi2620 4 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    One of, if not the best two parters ever made in Doctor Who

    • @nady2296
      @nady2296 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree. It's my favorite Doctor Who story

    • @TheCagedCorvid
      @TheCagedCorvid 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I can never choose a favourite, but it's definitely top tier. I didn't realise it was adapted from a book though 🤔 I must track that down

  • @roycebracket
    @roycebracket 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Human Nature/Family of Blood will always be my absolute favourite episode of DW ever. Completely encapsulates who The Doctor is, and asks some hard questions that no other episode never really did

    • @nady2296
      @nady2296 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I agree. I love this episode from the bottom of my heart. The second I finished it I knew it was my favorite. It just touched me in a way no other Doctor Who episode did before

  • @smythejane7345
    @smythejane7345 4 ปีที่แล้ว +46

    Martha is truly amazing. Seriously such an intelligent, strong and adaptable character. I didn’t really like that she had a crush on the doctor but that doesn’t stop her from being a badass.

    • @TheCagedCorvid
      @TheCagedCorvid 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      She's one of my favourite companions, she even knew when to quit... brilliant from start to finish.

  • @ItsMeHarry
    @ItsMeHarry 4 ปีที่แล้ว +46

    The "oh no, I'm becoming an a level media student again" made me laugh too hard

  • @danm3882
    @danm3882 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    Paul Cornell is one of the best writers. Really wish he would return for another episode

    • @willflint46
      @willflint46 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      13th doctor sure could use some good writing!

    • @erikalieben5476
      @erikalieben5476 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Chibnall would never allow it as Paul would show up him and his entire car crash of a writing team.

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Finally, _finally!_ Martha is done justice. I've never thought about it this way, but if it wasn't for this episode, I don't think she'd my favourite companion.
    I consider World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls and The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon to be my two favourite stories, but these two are a very close third. Then The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, I suppose.

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    It's important to give Russell some credit here. I'm always talking about how Russell regrets not taking co-credit for episodes he had a huge hand in the making of, but this was his biggest regret given the awards it won, no doubt.
    He said in The Writer's Tale - if anything - it was more his episode than Paul's in the end, and I can believe it. Particularly the work done with Nurse Refern. Probably my favourite female character in the whole show. "If the Doctor had never visited us, had never chosen this place. On a whim. Would anyone here have died?" Fuck Fury of a Time Lord, _this_ is 10's darkest scene. I've never empathised with a character like I do with Joan. _Jessica Hynes for Doctor 14, Jessica Hynes for Doctor 14._

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Some people really don't realize how messed up that scene is. When I described it as the Dr trying to seduce a woman who's grieving for the love he killed and now looks like, people go "it was more complicated than that, you're being misleading". Protagonist bias really is a strong thing.
      "Jessica Hynes for Doctor 14, Jessica Hynes for Doctor 14." I'd be down for that. If the roman father had an impact on the D's psyche can you imagine the effect she did

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Ben-vf5gk - I hate 10 in that scene, I'd punch David's face if he were sat here with me. Which is good, that's the intended reaction! Just so vile, so arrogant, so sure of himself. You ever see those videos of straight men kissing (consenting) lesbians, clearly thinking they can 'convert' them? That's 10 here. Pure macho arrogance. As though he could just flip a switch on grief with the promise of a romance. No justification, he's doing this for him, not for her or for the memory of John.
      I was so happy when I had a scavenge through Sam's Twitter the other month and saw him saying he'd want an aged Dev Patel as the Doctor. I thought it was just me!! 50s Patel is my number one, then Hynes at any age, they both have such good range. Then Paul Higgins for that cowardly, twitchy incarnation Sam is so keen to see. Or Ben Whishaw. And, no. Not because he's in the Bond films...because he's in A Very English Scandal, and he's very attractive.

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@nightowl8477 Preach brother!
      I'd all any and all of those. One fan casting I've really taken to is Robert Carlyle. I was apprehensive at first cause the first thing I'd seen him in was Hitler in the Rise of Evil. I loved him in Cracker he was the best villain but neither read as Dr material. Then I saw clips of him as Rumplestilskin in Once Upon A Time and now I'd be down for it. He's like a hybrid of McCoy and Eccleston

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Ben-vf5gk - Robert Carlisle??? Didn't see that one coming. I've only seen him in Trainspotting, so that's an immediate yes.

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@nightowl8477 I've not always heard great things about Once Upon A Time but was told he was the best part.

  • @LexiTheLeo
    @LexiTheLeo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    This is my favorite two parter in doctor who. Which is funny cause 9 year old me didn’t like it much. But it’s a masterpiece. What I love in this two parter is Martha’s strength. When she takes over the gun & threatens the family of blood when “John Smith” runs out. Her bravery here is something I haven’t seen in any of the other companions. When you take it Rose at the end of season 1 was trembling having to take charge with the sycorax, yet Martha with less than a series with the doctor shows this bravery. She’ll always be my favourite because of this scene alone. Thank you 💛

  • @Alia-bc3rc
    @Alia-bc3rc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    I love how the story made The Doctor not only dark and grim, but also flawed. His punishments to the Family of Blood is excessive, but totally sensical, coming out of enormous pain and guilt of what he had done to the village, the school, and Joan.
    Paul Cornell wrote a follow-up story where Thirteenth freed Daughter of Mine from the mirror. A _lot_ of fans hate it. But I really don't mind, although her reasoning might be a little naive, but I think it's part of The Doctor's journey to learn.

  • @Logan_Irrelevant
    @Logan_Irrelevant 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The punishments the doctor gave the family at the end is horrifying. Every single one is a fate worse than death, stuck in a scarecrow for eternity, trapped inside every mirror, unbreakable chains in an infinite purgatory, and being sucked into a black hole. The worst post being they are now immortal, and awake, but are trapped in these punishments for eternity.
    The doctor is a god with a code, but this last scene really shows how the wrath of the doctor can be worse than death. It’s chilling, and definitely an incredible scene.

  • @fromthethirdplanet
    @fromthethirdplanet 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    In the start of the episode you can hear the choir sing “follow the master”.

    • @Anonymous-bu5bk
      @Anonymous-bu5bk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Also, Lazlow from Daleks in Manhattan refers to the Daleks as The Masters.

  • @smokewolf4636
    @smokewolf4636 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    One small thing I’ll also add regarding how parts of the doctor slowly bleed into John Smith, John NEVER fires his rifle once (Probably already picked up on but just thought I’d mention anyway)

  • @BradTheThird
    @BradTheThird 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    Funnily enough, as much as I would agree, today, that it is an S tier episode. 13 year old me never gave it a second thought after it aired. I just wanted to see future stuff and sci-fi monsters. Although, I remember still getting excited at the cliffhanger (because I always did).
    But today, I can appreciate this episode for it's artfully crafted execution. I think it missed grabbing the attention of the children who were watching at the time with it's focus on the story over the action.
    But I know for a fact that the next week's episode *was* attention grabbing for the children. Also, the guy that plays the old Billy Shipton in Blink was in a Tom Baker episode called "Planet of Evil".

  • @TheAlexShowroom
    @TheAlexShowroom 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Fantastic analysis of the best two parter in NuWho - covered stuff I never even considered before! It's an incredible story with so much depth that if you didn't go so far into them I'd be more surprised. Great job as always Harbo

  • @legothoron1
    @legothoron1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    The person who played, Brother of mine, always seemed to made me think of Tom Riddle

    • @tardispurple3027
      @tardispurple3027 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Ikr! Their arrogant and creepy character combined with their very similar appearances, I've always thought the same!

    • @rochchan4145
      @rochchan4145 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Isn’t he the same actor who plays the young Tom Riddle in The Chamber of Secrets?

    • @sheadoherty7434
      @sheadoherty7434 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@rochchan4145 no

    • @rochchan4145
      @rochchan4145 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@sheadoherty7434 ah alright my bad

    • @sheadoherty7434
      @sheadoherty7434 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@rochchan4145 no, no bad. You good.

  • @revs7837
    @revs7837 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    The performances in this 2 parter are all magnificent. The actors certainly hold up the story.

    • @brobro9169
      @brobro9169 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The story is written fantastically, the actors are phenomenal, so I wouldn't say they "hold it up"

  • @wvvyd
    @wvvyd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Powerful 2 part episode. Especially the end a glimpse into the Doctor’s darkness. Really encapsulated the Doctor’s vanity, and to a greater extent than prior, as he was able to think he could change himself a human and indulge in his inner ego fantasy about “being human” (also a great show created by Toby Whithouse) 😉 and belonging to something. absolve himself of any responsibility as his consciousness was trapped. This was the Doctor’s Ego Death, and it was well earned. Really great detailed analysis man! I love your videos and just wanna say you’re great 😊 peace x luv

  • @Tulf42
    @Tulf42 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    If there was one thing I could add to this story, it would be the Doctor apologising to Joan and explaining his thoughts when making the decision of changing to a human and not realising the impact it had to those around him, because the family gave little time for the Doctor to think things through carefully.
    It would have strengthened the fact the Doctor is always faced with the lesser of two evils: either by dying and letting the bad guys win, or living to stop them but with unintentional costs...
    I'd also make the additional scene similar to the ending of Spider Man 3, a film which coincidentally debuted around the same time as this Doctor Who story, when Sandman a.k.a. Flint Marko explains the murder of Uncle Ben, with gorgeous music and ending with the line "I'm not asking you to forgive me. I just want you to understand."

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    13:58 to me, his anger is that his one chance to live the human life he's always wanted was stole away. Again, The Tenth Doctor is a Christmas Song.

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      "Well I work up todaaaaaayyyy..."

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ben-vf5gk - AND YOU'RE ON THE OTHERRRRR SIDE

  • @irishlilyxx6106
    @irishlilyxx6106 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I never understood why Jenny and Martha were sat outside in the cold until you said it was because they’re women !

  • @jvblhc
    @jvblhc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    This story (my favorite of all Doctor Who) was kicked around a few days ago on my facebook account. Some people hated it because some characters were insensitive to Martha because of her race and her stature as a servant. After a few attempts at explaining things, I had to leave. It's like they expected fictional characters from 1916 to have 2020 sensibilities. Some people should just not watch Doctor Who. P.S. At the end of the episode, when The Doctor invites Joan to travel with him, I always expect to hear Martha from behind the door: "Son of a b**ch!!! " :-)

    • @loras507
      @loras507 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      honestly i would have actively disliked if they’d pretended that wasnt how she would have been treated in that time. it is obviously very wrong and they dont try to portray it as anything but that, but it would be worse to pretend that this unfair mistreatment never happened.

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@loras507 Exactly trying to pretty up the past and denying involvement in racist practices is just cowardly

  • @turntsnaco824
    @turntsnaco824 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Man, don't apologize for doing this episode justice. It deserves it, and you did well.
    If anything, I think you could have gone into more about Martha's part in the story, but there's so much to cover, it's understandable you didn't.
    And I agree about it being one of the best episodes to show someone who doesn't watch Doctor Who. I've shown it to a couple of friends, and even suggested it to my dad who enjoys sci-fi and historical drama, especially anything to do with real wars.

  • @Fairly-odd-kel
    @Fairly-odd-kel 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Two of the best Doctor Who episodes and my heart breaks for John but also for Martha when she says "You had to fall in love with a human and it wasn't me" okay I'm paraphrasing because it's been awhile but it did make me choke up a little

  • @apanapandottir205
    @apanapandottir205 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    As a GoT fan it's fun to see Jojen and Viserys, but as a Spaced fan it's so cool seeing Jessica Hynes absolutely kill it in a serious role. I haven't seen her in anything in else and it's a pretty big range.

  • @stevebills5716
    @stevebills5716 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Those two scenes near the end between Jessica Hynes and David Tennant, first as John Smith and then as the Doctor, are absolutely stellar.
    These episodes came out when the BBC were releasing DVDs of three episodes at a time ahead of the series box set, and this two parter came out a long with Blink. I genuinely felt obliged to pay money for it. The TV license simply didn't seem sufficient. 🙂

  • @fromthethirdplanet
    @fromthethirdplanet 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    My favourite episodes. Baines was one of the best Villains ever.

  • @danshakulawrence983
    @danshakulawrence983 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    It's kind of... eerie? That the Doctor always believes in humanity, but when he himself was human he showed a much darker nature.

  • @Bsqudge
    @Bsqudge 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Even as a kid this episode stuck with me.
    One of my favourite quotes for a long time was Latimer describing who the Doctor is to John Smith and Joan Redfern.
    "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe. And... he's wonderful."

  • @mrwhatcanido4942
    @mrwhatcanido4942 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Matha jones is just too good.

  • @LCBK
    @LCBK ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why did people think it was out of character, he said in his first episode “no second chances in that sort of a man”

  • @Redboots
    @Redboots 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I love how real this story feels, like the little period pieces like the costumes and so on, it actually feels like 1913. also the headmaster from this reminds me a lot of the headmaster from the wall visually which is neat as hell

  • @lucypreece7581
    @lucypreece7581 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I always loved this two parter. it was only the other week when i realized that in the Davies era for me i always felt the second 2 parters of each of his series were the stronger stories and each of them draw from horror stuff and have the essence of horror but still feel really Doctor Who. they are also all really brilliantly written and acted and paced and constructed. So yeah Human Nature and Family Of Blood deffo a fave.

    • @SmallvillenerdTwo
      @SmallvillenerdTwo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Empty Child, Impossible Planet, Human Nature, Silence in the Library
      Arguably the best stories of their respective seasons.

  • @spugesdu
    @spugesdu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I had absolutely no idea this was an adaptation! Absolute -chef's kiss- of a two-parter, the best of the best of new Who.

  • @joeespin4377
    @joeespin4377 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    this story was a stand out one. it was well written, acted and produced. almost perfect, it's not that the story is flawed, its that nothing earthly is perfect.

  • @SmallvillenerdTwo
    @SmallvillenerdTwo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Writing : Flawless
    Direction: Inspired and creative
    Photography: Loaded with visual flair
    Acting: Brilliant all around. Tennant seamlessly slips into a completely different character and back into the Doctor it gives you chills. Freema probably at her best in this episode having to be the hero that nobody listens to while everything slowly goes down the drain. No other companion could fit into this episode (sorry Benny fans). The guest cast give it their all from the eerie performances of the Family (Brother of Mine is perfectly realized by Harry Lloyd), to the heartbroken and hopelessly romantic Joan and even Latimer is just a great side character played by the legendary Thomas Brodie-Sangster.
    It's a mystery that Paul Cornell never came back to write another episode for the series. If you ask me he's one of Who's best writers amongst both the classic and revival series.

  • @cameroncaws8506
    @cameroncaws8506 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Did the Doctor really have to pick 1913. He really screwed with Martha there.

  • @misticl1244
    @misticl1244 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This has always been my favorite episode of Doctor who, not only is every character amazing but the story is absolutely everything that makes Doctor who great! Not to mention Banes; The actor is phenomenal, I mean imagine if Banes was the master? The man gives me chills

  • @MsJayteeListens
    @MsJayteeListens 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    John Smith is so brave he allowed a child to be beaten, the most cowardly act of any character

  • @robbiesmith8055
    @robbiesmith8055 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Posting this on a bunch of your videos to help metrics:
    Thank you so much for making this series. Doctor Who was my favourite tv show as a kid, and was literally the only interest that every member of my family had in common, so it was very special to us growing up. Watching all your deep dives into each of the NuWho episodes has been a very nostalgic experience for me, so thank you thank you xx

  • @magiclentilsoup2375
    @magiclentilsoup2375 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    This is the best story ngl, it's so well done.

  • @maisj26
    @maisj26 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    1:04 “oh no, I’m becoming an a level media student again” literally me rn -

  • @kategillham2496
    @kategillham2496 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    did anyone else notice the similarities between roses theme and the song that plays during john and nurse redferns first kiss

  • @dr.zoidberg8778
    @dr.zoidberg8778 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is my favourite episode of the revived run, so glad you gave it an S I would've kicked up a fuss if not haha. One thing I noticed on recent watch that you didn't point out was in the scene where the schoolchildren defend the school against the scarecrows, it pans to John Smith several times, but not once does it show him actually shooting, possibly again representing the Doctor's pacifism bleeding through as he looks as if John Smith himself doesn't know why he can't shoot, and it is the Doctor restraining him.

  • @francisvalois4985
    @francisvalois4985 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm so glad you covered this story. It was such a important one for me growing up. Still perhaps my favourite episode(s) of television ever. And I feel it's pretty underrated and under-discussed. Even just watching your video, without the audio from the episode I got choked up at the ending. Nice another dude can admit that too

  • @DaveMan1K
    @DaveMan1K 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Shame Paul Cornell went and ruined this powerful ending by having the 13th Doctor go back and release the girl (a murderer) from the mirror out of the "goodness of her heart".
    And to show more of his unbridled love and support for the Chibnall era, he went and blocked everyone who doesn't during the showing of this episode on social media.

  • @intergalactic92
    @intergalactic92 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    I will disagree with you on the point that the Tenth Doctor being the most human Doctor makes him most suited for this story. I would argue that this makes him the worst Doctor to use because of the lack of contrast. The Seventh Doctor is well suited to the story because he is one of the most alien, and so the contrast will be stronger, and create a better dilemma. Also the punishment of the Family of Blood is classic Seventh Doctor. He is one of the darkest incarnations and was all about grand schemes and diabolical punishments, like when he tricks both Davros and the Cyber Leader into causing their own defeats in Remembrance of the Daleks and Silver Nemesis respectively.

    • @j800r_aswell
      @j800r_aswell 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      and yet they are all the Doctor. They are all the same person (guess I can't say "man" anymore). The doctor has always had that potential for darkness in him.

    • @jennypack217
      @jennypack217 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It was a very jarring episode that came out of right field. We didn't have any indication that it would happen. For that I hated it but it grew on me by the end.
      Sometimes, I try to imagine how the Doctor did the punishments. It's impossible. I think it was wise that it was a cliff note version preserving the mysterious nature of the doctor.
      For the freeing of sister of mine. I haven't seen it but I think it's cool that she gets released. If the doctor's reasoning wasn't good then there is another better reason. Who wants to have an alien staring at them from a mirror? Creepy. Haha.

    • @LuizFelipe508-ty2id
      @LuizFelipe508-ty2id 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      you say that but the tenth doctor has several dark moments, your argument makes no sense

  • @nightowl8477
    @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    12:11 ooh, nice catch! Similar track played when 10 and Sarah Jane depart in School Reunion too, an episode dealing with similar themes of a life that could have been.
    *cough* _The Tenth Doctor is a Christmas Song_ *cough*

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      th-cam.com/video/cBElHFlbwpc/w-d-xo.html

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sounds exactly like the version used in End of Time

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ben-vf5gk - I notice a new element to The End of Time every week, really gone up in my estimation. I used to think it was just another goofy Christmas Special, but when you take out those elements, I'd argue it has one of the strongest emotional threads at its heart.

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nightowl8477 I don't like those elements being applied to the Master, tho it is perfect that 10's last one is at Christmas.
      I agree with Davis, the first part is poor second half is better.
      When 10 is charging that spaceship back at the earth and almost crashes it into the building I was in. Unfortunately, it starts losing me at the "final act of your life" and then completely loses me at "I could do so much more". Still a 7/10 though.

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ben-vf5gk - I was talking about this with Sam recently, actually. Russell talks about a 1 part alternate to The End of Time he was considering in The Writer's Tale. So many good ideas he either dismissed or forgot about. I wrote up the script as one of my three main Lockdown hobbies if you wanna have a read.

  • @declanhugors
    @declanhugors 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I didn't really like how the Doctor tried so hard to hide from the family, but then when he comes back, he just immediately defeats them. But I do like the dark ending this has, considering all the innocent people they killed to become unkillable, and all the Doctor does is shows them what it feels like to live like him. Endlessly

  • @benlawrence309
    @benlawrence309 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Would't it be great if the clone of the tenth doctor went back to Joan after Journey's End.

    • @jameshudson395
      @jameshudson395 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Lol you actually like her...

    • @nicoleowens2318
      @nicoleowens2318 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Actually, I think I would have preferred that lol

    • @-haclong2366
      @-haclong2366 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      To be fair, that clone came from before he met her, it was essentially still the 9th Doctor.

  • @nl7567
    @nl7567 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    John Smith: I don't wanna go

  • @thephoenixking1086
    @thephoenixking1086 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Banes is probably my favourite character in this episode (Or the two episodes), the way he is acted at the start (a Normal person who is a bit of a bully) and then when he changes to the Alien and becomes all strange, the way he is acted here is really cool (the way he moves around in a strange way, the way he stares at people and talks ALL come across as if something is seriously wrong).
    The other characters do not seem to notice this change at all though which to me is a massive let-down, He has clearly changed and something is wrong yet no one seems to notice (or they do not care).
    I wish we could have seen more of this character, maybe he came back in a later series with a new plan and maybe succeeded at his plan in capturing the Doctor.

  • @rosswilson4906
    @rosswilson4906 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Paul Cornell should be new showrunner, both his episodes are incredible

  • @danm3882
    @danm3882 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The cold open to Human Nature is my favourite cold open of New Who

  • @Howch125
    @Howch125 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This was the best era for new Dr Who, Don't Blink is from this series too I think.

  • @Dr3Mc3Ninja
    @Dr3Mc3Ninja 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    12:45 I remember when that aired on TV. They used those clips in the, "In the next episode" preview at the end of the cliff hanger, was horrified at the time.

  • @alexandermclean9281
    @alexandermclean9281 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for this excellent review. I love this story. You have done such a good job of analysing in depth the various elements of the two-parter. I would not necessarily be able to put so well into words quite why the story works so well as it does.

  • @GeorgeMarionerd
    @GeorgeMarionerd 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Stupendous story.
    Also Ferb is there.

  • @shallendor
    @shallendor 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This was the episodes that made Martha my favorite New Who companion!

  • @apanapandottir205
    @apanapandottir205 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the Headmaster guy tbh. He is a hardass and at first you don't like him but later he is willing to die without hesitation to save what he things is a little girl.
    Also, when he says something like "I used my dead mates as sandbags and would go back there tomorrow, for king and country!" says so much about him.

  • @rebeccacalledalice
    @rebeccacalledalice 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I'm going to say this. The entire Whittaker era CANNOT compare to Human Nature/Family of Blood and David Tennant's portrayal of the Doctor. This is why he's my favourite Doctor because he's so down-to-earth, he can be happy at points but can also hold a furious grudge against anyone who does something stupid. I agree with you when you say that the Tenth Doctor is the most human out of all of them.

    • @blobfish5730
      @blobfish5730 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd say that 5 is definitely the most human Doctor

    • @mrdr0161
      @mrdr0161 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Idk what she has to do with anything. But you could say the same as Moffats era. This story is better than all of it

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mrdr0161 No, Heaven Sent is better.

    • @mayotango1317
      @mayotango1317 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@blobfish5730 No, the Fifth Doctor is kinda distant and cold.

  • @greenivy713
    @greenivy713 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is my favorite double-episode in the entirety of New Who. When I first watched it I had a huge crush on the tenth Doctor and wanted him to return as soon as possible. However, after rewatching it it has become so heartbreaking for me to see John Smith struggle and go. Also Joan's grief and Martha's anger and sadness. It's so rewarding to relate to each of them, you can truly feel the conflict. Such a deep, meaningful story. I've always loved episodes set in the past but this is one of the true gems amongst them that really satisfied me.

  • @harrietlyall1991
    @harrietlyall1991 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This particular episode is rather clever in that it incorporates references to other classic films, eg Lindsay Anderson’s “If...” in the siege scene, “Le Ballon Rouge” with the red balloon appearing above the hedge when the little girl is kidnapped, while the pictures of giant butterflies on the walls are referencing art porn classic, “The Duke of Burgundy”, which appeared around the same time as this episode. There is at one point a shot of Martha cycling through the woods, accompanied by some bucolic music, which is a straight lift from a similar scene in “The Duke of Burgundy”.

  • @Ben-vf5gk
    @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I'd like to see a War Master story where the family of blood come for him

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why War specifically?

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@nightowl8477 War Master is just my go to Master these days. Maybe it's cause they were both in S3? Maybe while he was Yana, the family come for him tho that might be contrived. Possibly earlier Yana so after he's fought of the family he goes back to being human cause the time war isn't over yet.

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ben-vf5gk - I think if it were just Daughter of Mine going after the War Master, that would be perfect. If it were late in War's timeline, he would probably have the Chameleon Arch Pocket Watch on him, so maybe she picked up on that?

    • @Ben-vf5gk
      @Ben-vf5gk 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nightowl8477 I honestly wouldn't mind if they bring back all of them with different actors, the family of blood took on different bodies. I just think that would be interesting, maybe father of mine could be the favourite this time

    • @nightowl8477
      @nightowl8477 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ben-vf5gk - maybe, I just don't know what other territory there is to explore with a family unit threat, you know? Already played that card pretty well with the Slitheen anyway.
      I think the gimmick of may flies looking to live forever would still work, but I'd only do it with one of the family. It just makes the most sense for Daughter of Mine to return, out of all of them.

  • @lcmhb7688
    @lcmhb7688 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    After binge watching these videos I’m actually looking forward to media studies this term lmao

  • @engagingathena9965
    @engagingathena9965 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    tbf i think the best bit of thsi episode was martha’s character development it really adds more to her character

  • @mathieuleader8601
    @mathieuleader8601 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    I really don't like how Daughter of Mine has been freed due to a sequel story during Who lockdown

    • @jtyler9130
      @jtyler9130 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      It’s not really canon though so wouldn’t worry...in fact anything 13th Doctor related can be considered non canon

    • @mrdr0161
      @mrdr0161 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why? It was hinted in this story that the Doctor will forgive her one day

    • @SmallvillenerdTwo
      @SmallvillenerdTwo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jtyler9130 Lmao in my headcanon the timeless child arc is just fanfiction

  • @theiking7182
    @theiking7182 ปีที่แล้ว

    I loved the introduction of the chameleon arc. The amount of times I opened a fob watch to see if I’m the doctor as a kid is insane!

  • @graphitepants6522
    @graphitepants6522 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Yesss I always look forward to watching these! Thanks dude

  • @leonardzimmerman1308
    @leonardzimmerman1308 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I truly appreciate how you dug into this and you sharing how much this meant to you. Thank you!

  • @wankle1234
    @wankle1234 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This was undoubtedly my favorite episode when I was a kid

  • @erinella
    @erinella 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As a kid, this double parter was always overshadowed by my intense fear of Blink coming after. I used to perch on the edge of my bed waiting for the instant Human Nature ended to switch the DVD off before the preview for Blink showed up so I never fully appreciated the ending until I was older. Now I can't wait this double parter without choking up. I even choked up a bit watching this review and just thinking about parts of it. So well crafted and emotional.

  • @heebiejeebiesofthehighestorder
    @heebiejeebiesofthehighestorder 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm pretty sure the final scene was filmed in Llandaff, the same setting used for Leadworth in Series 5? I recognise parts of it (I used to live across the road from the cathedral green!)

  • @rodrigobueno8652
    @rodrigobueno8652 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    ‘’People say the punishment was excessive and out of character’’...excessive?: freaking yeah lol
    Out of character?never forget water of mars..or even his first episode: ending the golden age of England and altering history to punish Harriet Jones hahaha People sometimes forget how dark the 10th can be sometimes
    Great video,is the second I see in your channel and in general your videos are top quality and I’m enjoying your analysis a lot, good work!

  • @thatoneguy4452
    @thatoneguy4452 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think the punishments for the Family of Blood make sense because we've seen the extreme lengths the Doctor went through to try and evade them, the act of changing his DNA to human is shown to be incredibly painful and was clearly a desperate last resort. The fact that they continued to pursue him and lives were lost as a result simply pushed him over the edge. It's also clear that the Doctor does remember his time as John Smith and experienced everything he did, so he would've been angry about the life he lost as well, something that never would've happened had the family never chased him to begin with.
    Ultimately, it shows why enemies like the Daleks fear the Doctor and what he's capable of when he's pushed too far.

  • @Докторпарадокс
    @Докторпарадокс 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    interesting thought that was pointed out by many
    If John Smith dreams of Doctor's adventures
    does that mean Doctor dreams about living a normal happy life?

  • @Squicx
    @Squicx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I want Doctor Who to feel like the Doctor is some sort of ghost again. Jodie's doctor needs to go darker. After seeing the drawing of the TARDIS (4:34) It feels like the TARDIS is just watching you even tho it's a drawing. It makes you think back on what actually happened when The doctor stole this machine, This ghost ship. Stuff like that brings mystery and it NEEDS to come back.

  • @SimmoOfficial
    @SimmoOfficial 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    One of the best episodes... Period

  • @bruh949
    @bruh949 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The ending of this 2 parter brought tears to my eyes. Lest shall not forget.

  • @itsthatasian06
    @itsthatasian06 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This channel is criminally underrated

  • @abigailguessis1218
    @abigailguessis1218 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Something I noticed when he was holding the watch there are whispers and one of them say open me little man which shows his desperation to get out

  • @imbeingjudgemental644
    @imbeingjudgemental644 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you want to go full media student. The use of scarecrows as the bulk villains of the story can be seen as symbolism.
    Scarecrows are designed to look human to deter crows from raiding fields and taking the items being grown.
    Similarly John Smith is a kind of scarecrow in this story as he is the doctor but to the family of blood looks human in a way to deter them from gaining immortality from him.
    In the end the bulk villains of the story is the doctor/John Smith

  • @Cossfrack
    @Cossfrack 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I loved the little encore to the story we got in the end of time.

  • @phantomsidious2934
    @phantomsidious2934 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    My Favorite Modern Who Story easily, a great mixture of classic and modern styles

  • @dr.quackenbacker5247
    @dr.quackenbacker5247 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thomas Brodie-Sangster, played off his part so well. He's become such a good character actor, and it's just nuts that Ferb/John Tracy met the Doctor.