Dalek Caan is my favourite of the Cult of Skaro members. Such an interesting character especially in Daleks in Manhattan when he talks about how much mankind still keeps despite times of hardship while the Daleks constantly falter. You can almost hear the anger and jealousy in his voice.
It's interesting that Caan initially seems to be pro-hybridization. He seems to genuinely concede the fact that Humanity are the ultimate survivors of the Doctor Who universe when he's looking over Manhattan with Diagoras, he stays silent during Thay and Jast's protests before Sec fuses with Diagoras, and in the climax of part one he gives an impassioned speech to Martha and the other humans about how the Daleks need to adapt in order to survive. It seems like it's only when Sec starts to talk about making the hybrids even more human that Caan starts to sow seeds of rebellion among the other Cult members, taking advantage of Thay and Jast's pre-existing doubts to turn them against their commander. The ultimate irony is that he evidently realises that Sec was right all along, and tries to make amends for his betrayal by ensuring that the New Dalek Empire is destroyed in Series 4
@@OptimysticPessimyst There is an origin story for Sec, but it's not an audio story. It's a short story called 'Birth of Legend' that was present in the back of a book about the Cult from the mid 2000s as mentioned at the end of the video.
It would be hard for them to get all the actors who voiced the Cult in *Doomsday*, though. I don’t think any of them have ever even done Big Finish before.
I honestly would've liked to see Hybrid Sec as a (even if only temporary) companion to the Doctor. The conversations the two could've had, Sec seeing how the Doctor went about travelling the universe, getting into it himself and being part of saving the day, proving to be an intellectual equal for the Doctor with his genius and Dalek knowledge, probably even providing an interesting encounter with the Master. We've never had a Dalek of any kind become a companion to the Doctor, and Sec, I think, could've been a great candidate for such a role. Granted, you'd probably have to limit his trips out of the Tardis to exclusively alien worlds, as any Earth stories set during times outside of Alien co-habitation might raise some concern among the populous, or give him quite the disguise for that head of his. Maybe they could've kept him exclusively in the Tardis for a while, have it so that he manages to further genetically engineer himself to look more "human" looking so he could venture out, hiding his Dalek nature. (I dunno, I just sorta ran with this train of thought).
(What if he just takes the Doctor's "Walk round like you own the place" advice to Martha to heart?) "SALutaTIONS, FELLOW WHOLE HUMANS! HOW WAS... THE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY? HOW WELL... ARE YOU DIGestiNG yOUR FOOD?" Doctor: Dalek Sec I told you to stay in the Tardis! Sec: I DO NOT take orders FROM the Doctor! Martha: For God's sakes can't you at least put some trousers on?? Sec: The human Dalek race is too advanced for primitive human legwear! Martha: The Doctor will let you borrow his best pair. Doctor: No he won't- Sec: His best two-piece. Martha: Knock yourself out. Doctor: Wait- Sec: Done.
The Time Lords also considered extracting Sec from that timeline just before his death to recruit him for the time war as he had knowledge of Dalek plans and strategy but could also appeal to human emotion
I always saw Jast as the scientist, since he injected Sec with the cromatime solution and he’d stay behind at the lab when Caan and Thay were out. Plus Jast always points out details in things, like how he noticed the Doctor in Doomsday during the Cyber Leader’s transmission. I’ve always seen Thay as the soldier of the group, since he’s often the one who is sent on scouting missions and declared war on both the Cybermen and the Dalek Humans.
Always loved these four daleks when they first apperared on screen with their own uniqueness. Hope one day we'' get more episodes with daleks which are more fleshed out like these four where. Or even they get bought back in precursor episodes before dooms day. Great video as always, keep it up!!!! I might be wrong but I think I remember reading that Dalek Thay was second in command to Sec rather than Caan as he had the identify code with the stripe in the middle and Thay had they stripe at the top.
Thay definitely has a more prominent role in Doomsday than Caan, but Caan is the one who takes over as leader in Evolution of the Daleks, so presumably he's the second-in-command, unless Thay gets demoted between Doomsday and Daleks in Manhattan The ID tags were supposed to be there to let fans visually identify each Dalek, but they really botched it with the filming as the props were constantly being switched around, so it's impossible to tell who is who based on the ID tags. For example, during Dalek Thay's line "neither did we need him alive", there's a cut and Thay's ID tag changes mid-sentence
I hope we get more fan favourite Daleks in Russel's new era Rusty and the Reconnaissance Scout are the only Daleks since his time as showrunner that have felt like proper *characters* - that's two standout Daleks in the past THIRTEEN YEARS (maybe also the Prime Minister but he didn't have enough screentime to make as strong an impression imo)
I'm surprised Big Finish hasn't used them in one of their Time War boxsets yet... I know they ran into Void to escape the Time War but surely they must have done SOMETHING beforehand.
I dunno why but I think Jast is my favorite of the bunch! Used to be sec until he went and pulled a hybridization blegh! Guess I like the more zealoty Daleks. Though the trigger happy ones appeal to me as well.
The last few moments of Army of Ghosts fulfilled decades of dreams of 10y/olds come full grown adults come true... Then, the next 7 days were excruciating to endure pre finale!! As soon as 10 informed us of the existence of the cult, I went straight back to 4 and Davros at the very beginning.... Such a brilliant plot device/ future threat to the universe!!!
The Cult of Skaro had aspects of what the Paradigm Daleks _should've_ been like, in my eyes. Like the Cult, the Paradigm Daleks should've been these recurring Daleks that appear, either alone or two at a time, The Scientist and the Eternal, the Strategist and the Drone, or any combination, furthering a plot to bring the Daleks back in full force. I feel like the next time we see the Daleks, it's too quick of a jump from the Doctor thinking they'd all been wiped out to having an entire empire again. I wish there'd been more build up, after Victory of the Daleks, the Doctor then actively seeks out the Paradigm or even happens upon them more frequently as they enact their plans for the restoration of the Daleks. I dunno, despite the colour scheming, I really liked the idea of the Paradigm Daleks, each having a unique role to play. Would've been interesting to flesh each one out, have each be the villain of their own episodes. Instead the creators caved to the backlash and invested *none* of their own faith into that story thread. I hate seeing wasted potential. Granted, there's no guarantee that such a plot for the Paradigm would work or be good, but _something_ to make the most of their entrance into the series.
I wish they did more with Thay and Jast. Jast especially...he did so little they could probably write in him being shot by the Cybermen and the Daleks go "we need to hurry things up"
I always thought of them as the three Dalek's the Doctor modified in the Evil of the Dalek's. Having their MEMORY wiped, yet retaining what the Doctor did.... The Novel for this is great! It would match up. And who knows, maybe later on after having their memory wiped became as you say. And its worth noting it seems the three the Doctor modified, lived, according to the novel. It would match up.
personally, I think every member of the cult should have had a unique casing. We could have had black, gunmetal, sliver, and chrome for each member, to keep them unique, and make them identifiable from time-war drone daleks beyond the serial tag.
Hmm... how to bring back the Cult of Skaro? Okay ... so from Revolution of the Daleks we know the cloned recon Dalek creatures keep the memories of their predecessor (Or at least one of them did.) So ... maybe the Cult of Skaro has a super secret base somewhere operated by Dalek Rabe (sp? - Dalek Jast's original name) who 'resurrects' the Cult of Skaro whenever they get destroyed or go rogue?
I've always found it fascinating how OFFENDED the Doctor seemed at the Cult of Skaro acting like typical Daleks whenever they did. Like, his hate for Daleks gave way to frustration that these particular Daleks were so, so close to becoming more, only to falter and destroy virtually everything that came of their efforts: the Human-Dalek Sec, the Dalek-Humans, even the cult itself.
I think the other three cult members should have had different casing colourings to distinguish them further from standard bronze Daleks (not black). It would have fit the theme of them being individuals rather than just nameless drones of the collective.
DiM and EotD are set in November 1930, but presumably the Daleks arrived before that - construction of the Empire State began in March of that year, and it likely took them a while to build their laboratory and get started on the pig slaves, so I'm guessing they were there for more than a year, especially when you factor in that they had done several experiments before coming up with the 'Final Experiment'
The Cult of Skaro ruined the Daleks for me. The Daleks having actual personalities and opinions, being actual characters, makes them so much more interesting thab as just emotionless killing machines.
Dalek Caan is my favourite of the Cult of Skaro members. Such an interesting character especially in Daleks in Manhattan when he talks about how much mankind still keeps despite times of hardship while the Daleks constantly falter. You can almost hear the anger and jealousy in his voice.
Always kind of hated him cuz he tried to overthrow sec
It's interesting that Caan initially seems to be pro-hybridization. He seems to genuinely concede the fact that Humanity are the ultimate survivors of the Doctor Who universe when he's looking over Manhattan with Diagoras, he stays silent during Thay and Jast's protests before Sec fuses with Diagoras, and in the climax of part one he gives an impassioned speech to Martha and the other humans about how the Daleks need to adapt in order to survive. It seems like it's only when Sec starts to talk about making the hybrids even more human that Caan starts to sow seeds of rebellion among the other Cult members, taking advantage of Thay and Jast's pre-existing doubts to turn them against their commander. The ultimate irony is that he evidently realises that Sec was right all along, and tries to make amends for his betrayal by ensuring that the New Dalek Empire is destroyed in Series 4
@@darlig.ulv.bakhjerne Makes perfect sense.
I agree with this for no particular reason.
CAAAAAAAAAN!!!
I love there are some Daleks that do have personality’s, it really is something we should see more of on screen
Surprised Big Finish hasn’t done a Series yet on them
I'd kill for one. The cult of Skaro is so interesting!
I’m pretty sure there is an audio story prequel for Sec. I’m sure owned it once upon a time. May be wrong though
@@OptimysticPessimyst Not that I know of, and I’m positive I’d know of it!
@@OptimysticPessimyst There is an origin story for Sec, but it's not an audio story. It's a short story called 'Birth of Legend' that was present in the back of a book about the Cult from the mid 2000s as mentioned at the end of the video.
It would be hard for them to get all the actors who voiced the Cult in *Doomsday*, though. I don’t think any of them have ever even done Big Finish before.
I honestly would've liked to see Hybrid Sec as a (even if only temporary) companion to the Doctor. The conversations the two could've had, Sec seeing how the Doctor went about travelling the universe, getting into it himself and being part of saving the day, proving to be an intellectual equal for the Doctor with his genius and Dalek knowledge, probably even providing an interesting encounter with the Master.
We've never had a Dalek of any kind become a companion to the Doctor, and Sec, I think, could've been a great candidate for such a role. Granted, you'd probably have to limit his trips out of the Tardis to exclusively alien worlds, as any Earth stories set during times outside of Alien co-habitation might raise some concern among the populous, or give him quite the disguise for that head of his.
Maybe they could've kept him exclusively in the Tardis for a while, have it so that he manages to further genetically engineer himself to look more "human" looking so he could venture out, hiding his Dalek nature. (I dunno, I just sorta ran with this train of thought).
(What if he just takes the Doctor's "Walk round like you own the place" advice to Martha to heart?) "SALutaTIONS, FELLOW WHOLE HUMANS! HOW WAS... THE RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY? HOW WELL... ARE YOU DIGestiNG yOUR FOOD?"
Doctor: Dalek Sec I told you to stay in the Tardis!
Sec: I DO NOT take orders FROM the Doctor!
Martha: For God's sakes can't you at least put some trousers on??
Sec: The human Dalek race is too advanced for primitive human legwear!
Martha: The Doctor will let you borrow his best pair.
Doctor: No he won't-
Sec: His best two-piece.
Martha: Knock yourself out.
Doctor: Wait-
Sec: Done.
The Time Lords also considered extracting Sec from that timeline just before his death to recruit him for the time war as he had knowledge of Dalek plans and strategy but could also appeal to human emotion
Wait, what? Source?
@@MoarCrossovers Novel called “Dalek Combat Training Manual from 2021
A very intriguing group of Daleks. Hopefully, RTD will introduce more interesting Daleks.
I’d love it if the Cult of Skaro appear in a few Big Finish audio dramas. It would be amazing to see what they got up to during The Time War.
Very glad that you mentioned the bit of nasalliness to Thay’s voice!! Once a scientist, always a scientist
I always saw Jast as the scientist, since he injected Sec with the cromatime solution and he’d stay behind at the lab when Caan and Thay were out. Plus Jast always points out details in things, like how he noticed the Doctor in Doomsday during the Cyber Leader’s transmission. I’ve always seen Thay as the soldier of the group, since he’s often the one who is sent on scouting missions and declared war on both the Cybermen and the Dalek Humans.
@@supergeorge8603 In their official backstory, Thay was a lead scientist at station Alpha, whereas Jast was an outer rim defensive battalion leader.
Always loved these four daleks when they first apperared on screen with their own uniqueness. Hope one day we'' get more episodes with daleks which are more fleshed out like these four where. Or even they get bought back in precursor episodes before dooms day.
Great video as always, keep it up!!!!
I might be wrong but I think I remember reading that Dalek Thay was second in command to Sec rather than Caan as he had the identify code with the stripe in the middle and Thay had they stripe at the top.
Thay definitely has a more prominent role in Doomsday than Caan, but Caan is the one who takes over as leader in Evolution of the Daleks, so presumably he's the second-in-command, unless Thay gets demoted between Doomsday and Daleks in Manhattan
The ID tags were supposed to be there to let fans visually identify each Dalek, but they really botched it with the filming as the props were constantly being switched around, so it's impossible to tell who is who based on the ID tags. For example, during Dalek Thay's line "neither did we need him alive", there's a cut and Thay's ID tag changes mid-sentence
I hope we get more fan favourite Daleks in Russel's new era
Rusty and the Reconnaissance Scout are the only Daleks since his time as showrunner that have felt like proper *characters* - that's two standout Daleks in the past THIRTEEN YEARS
(maybe also the Prime Minister but he didn't have enough screentime to make as strong an impression imo)
I'm surprised Big Finish hasn't used them in one of their Time War boxsets yet... I know they ran into Void to escape the Time War but surely they must have done SOMETHING beforehand.
I dunno why but I think Jast is my favorite of the bunch! Used to be sec until he went and pulled a hybridization blegh! Guess I like the more zealoty Daleks. Though the trigger happy ones appeal to me as well.
I like jast
In a box in my loft I have 4 sets of Cult of Skaro Daleks 😂 I kept getting them for Christmases. So yeah, Dalek Army🤣
Great lore video
That Last Dalek game soundtrack from 3:26 is so nostalgic
The last few moments of Army of Ghosts fulfilled decades of dreams of 10y/olds come full grown adults come true...
Then, the next 7 days were excruciating to endure pre finale!!
As soon as 10 informed us of the existence of the cult, I went straight back to 4 and Davros at the very beginning....
Such a brilliant plot device/ future threat to the universe!!!
I hope the new RTD era has Dalek characters as best as the Cult of Skaro!
The Cult of Skaro had aspects of what the Paradigm Daleks _should've_ been like, in my eyes. Like the Cult, the Paradigm Daleks should've been these recurring Daleks that appear, either alone or two at a time, The Scientist and the Eternal, the Strategist and the Drone, or any combination, furthering a plot to bring the Daleks back in full force. I feel like the next time we see the Daleks, it's too quick of a jump from the Doctor thinking they'd all been wiped out to having an entire empire again. I wish there'd been more build up, after Victory of the Daleks, the Doctor then actively seeks out the Paradigm or even happens upon them more frequently as they enact their plans for the restoration of the Daleks.
I dunno, despite the colour scheming, I really liked the idea of the Paradigm Daleks, each having a unique role to play. Would've been interesting to flesh each one out, have each be the villain of their own episodes. Instead the creators caved to the backlash and invested *none* of their own faith into that story thread. I hate seeing wasted potential. Granted, there's no guarantee that such a plot for the Paradigm would work or be good, but _something_ to make the most of their entrance into the series.
I wish they did more with Thay and Jast. Jast especially...he did so little they could probably write in him being shot by the Cybermen and the Daleks go "we need to hurry things up"
Didn't Sec appear in the Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar two-parter? Same black shell, same markings.
I always thought of them as the three Dalek's the Doctor modified in the Evil of the Dalek's. Having their MEMORY wiped, yet retaining what the Doctor did....
The Novel for this is great!
It would match up. And who knows, maybe later on after having their memory wiped became as you say. And its worth noting it seems the three the Doctor modified, lived, according to the novel. It would match up.
Dalek Jast is the most relatable to me.
personally, I think every member of the cult should have had a unique casing. We could have had black, gunmetal, sliver, and chrome for each member, to keep them unique, and make them identifiable from time-war drone daleks beyond the serial tag.
Big Finish should do a few audios before they entered the void,,,lee adams made a great 4 parter of dalek caan
I like the Cult of Skaro
I wish Jast, Caan, and Thay had black domes like on the Cult of Skaro's Battles in Time card.
I like theses lore videos but the black dalek is also in TMA and TWF so did darvos rebuild the cult on skaro?
Hmm... how to bring back the Cult of Skaro?
Okay ... so from Revolution of the Daleks we know the cloned recon Dalek creatures keep the memories of their predecessor (Or at least one of them did.) So ... maybe the Cult of Skaro has a super secret base somewhere operated by Dalek Rabe (sp? - Dalek Jast's original name) who 'resurrects' the Cult of Skaro whenever they get destroyed or go rogue?
I've always found it fascinating how OFFENDED the Doctor seemed at the Cult of Skaro acting like typical Daleks whenever they did. Like, his hate for Daleks gave way to frustration that these particular Daleks were so, so close to becoming more, only to falter and destroy virtually everything that came of their efforts: the Human-Dalek Sec, the Dalek-Humans, even the cult itself.
I have the cult of skate dalek set
I think the other three cult members should have had different casing colourings to distinguish them further from standard bronze Daleks (not black). It would have fit the theme of them being individuals rather than just nameless drones of the collective.
It was 1930s not 1920s that the Cult of Skaro arrived after the temporal shift from Doomsday
DiM and EotD are set in November 1930, but presumably the Daleks arrived before that - construction of the Empire State began in March of that year, and it likely took them a while to build their laboratory and get started on the pig slaves, so I'm guessing they were there for more than a year, especially when you factor in that they had done several experiments before coming up with the 'Final Experiment'
@@dalekbumps could of explained that in the vid or just comment it and pin that one.
@@thedestiny326 why? that’s kind of a minor detail and wasn’t even the point of the video
@@minotronic1959 if it is about the cult of skaro it had to be right
@@dalekbumps nice save. I was about to comment the same as OP
Dalek sec ❤
The Cult of Skaro ruined the Daleks for me. The Daleks having actual personalities and opinions, being actual characters, makes them so much more interesting thab as just emotionless killing machines.