Ford did some juggling of numbers here. The 389 and 391 both have the same bore & strike as the FE 390, but I think they fiddled with the engine sizes to differentiate the FT from the FE engines. When I moved from Chicago to Phoenix in 1982, I had a huge U-Haul box truck with a 360 and 4 speed manual. The 2bbl carb had a governor built in (it was a lot like the vacuum secondaries on a Holley 4bbl, but the governor controlled one of the throttle plates in the 2bbl carb. Loaded or unloaded, it got 4.5 mpg. The looooong climb out of Camp Verde toward Phx found me going exactly 17 mph in second gear on the freeway. I could wind it out to 18-19 and shift to third, but it just slowed down. Used a quart of oil every 100 miles. Whatever, it was cheap, and it got me back and forth. Good info on overlooked engines, Jay!
@@What.its.like. To tell if a core in the junkyard is an FE or FT, measure the crankshaft snout with the balancer off. If it measures 1.75 it is an FT and if it measures 1.375 it is an FE. You can measure the stroke too. Pull #1 spark plug, the first plug on the passenger side. And pull. #4 the last plug on the passenger side. With the first cylinder at TDC feel it with a wooden dowel and use the bolt on the snout to rock it back and forth at the top of the piston and when it is atTDC #4 ( last on the passenger side) will be at BDC. So when the 1 is up put a mark on the dowel from a good reference point that you can get to on 4 and put the dowel down 4 and put a mark. Measure between and you have the stroke. 3.5 is a 352 or 360 FE with the 1.375 snout and a 361 FT on a 1.75 snout . Just over 3.75 on 4 is either a 390 with the 1.375 or a 391 FT at 1.75. If it is 4 inches it is a 410 or 428. I hope this helps. And I would ask for a return refund if it is found to be cracked or damaged and unable to be repaired. The 3.79 FT crankshaft with the 1.75 snout can be interchanged with all of others but must have the snout turned down, it is made of 5140 steel and depending on your plans may not be the best choice because it weighs 75 lbs as opposed to the iron 390 / 428 crank being 60 lbs. .
1965 F250 4x4, I had one with a 410 hp 390 I built myself and it made 455 ft Ibs and the way it was geared and being a 4x4 it was unstoppable and ended up pulling everyone out of the mud. It had an NP435 4 speed and a gear driven Dana 24 2 speed transfer case a Dana 60hd and Dana44 hd. It had the closed front knuckles and I just pumped them full of grease gun grease and it drove like power steering. The FE would split an 11 inch 3 finger clutch in half when I revved it to 5500 and sidestepped it. I could wind it to 7000 rpm’s and never got stuck.
I was an employee at a major metro area Ford dealership in the late '70's. I became aware of the many different displacement engines used in fomoco trucks as we had a truck department. What stands out to me after all these years is how robust the inline 6 engine was. I would go to the authorized engine rebuilder to pick up engines. All of them would be under hard use before a failure happened. 6 cylinder engines had gear to gear between the cam and crank. Most sixes were gears with a chain as I recall.
The FT was great to build a 428 out of. The FT heads were junk. But the 361 and 391 were thick and reinforced main bearing structure. Easy to drill for 427 style crossbolt mains.
I'd choose the 1970 Ford F250 and the 1972 Ford F250. When I pumped gas in high school I fell in love with the '70-'73 4X4 F250s that would come to the station.
Well done presentation and great info. As a Ford owner I would take any of them particularly the 67-79's that era trucks was so colorful ,as well as Gm, Dodge and International .and since I owned a 79 F 250 with the 300 six, ran that over 200,000 miles no problem, still ran strong when I sold the truck..
I'm far from knowledgeable about FT's but several folks who should know them told me they're a can of worms for internal parts, with both duty-specific and year-to-year variations. Bad enough there's as many sizes as there are. FT's were never installed in anything less than 3/4 ton trucks except for the 360 which was never used in anything larger than 1/2 ton, but there were plenty of those. That happened so the 351 production would be adequate for cars; there weren't enough being made for both purposes. Not much to go by from the outside to figure out what you've got, and by now lots of these have been swapped so what is supposed to be there may not be and it's hard to tell. And to the non-expert eye they look like FE's. After they ended FT production the smaller (up to one ton) trucks could have SBF 302's and 351W's or the larger 385 series engines which I think were strengthened and called "SD".The SBF's in these years were regular 'car' engines. No preference for the WYR as I'm not a fan of Fords above 1/2 ton.
Totally agree and the information that’s out there is conflicting at best.. I’m sure finding people who know these engines are getting few and far between.. I’d stick to FE personally way easier to get parts google doesn’t know what those engines are especially 389 ford 359 another one..
wyr 1965 F250 wyr 1972 F250 They put a lot of high quality parts in those engines like forged cranks and sodium filled valves. I guess the heads and cam are what limited them and did not give the high performance numbers. I remember trucks with the 360 in it, but I always thought it was a down sized 390 FE , you learn stuff all the time. Thx Jay .
All of the engines you have in this video did not come in any of the trucks in the would you rather with the exception of the 360 which could be found in pickups like the f100 and f250. All of the other engines only came in trucks like the f500 and larger (2 ton size and up). The other important difference between the FT engines and the FE engines is that the FT engines were externally balanced while the FE engines were internally balanced. The 360 found in pickups is internally balanced making it more of an FE motor (really it was just the 361 from the Edsel that was detuned for pickups and not put in cars. Called it the the 360 to differentiate it from the Edsel 361). FT engines don't swap into pickups very well because of the external balancing therefore the accessories that are on pickups won't fit on the FT engine.
So many choices just in engines I think id like the 72 F250 with the 360 4speed in the high boy set up because they are not only beautiful but incredibly capable and indestructible
Hey, great vid. One addition I'd like to offer. I have a 1968 F500 with the 330MD, and the number plate on the truck shows a 164 net HP @ 3,800 RPM rating. This is a Canadian truck, don't know if they had different rating options here. Also, it was a government fleet unit I got from surplus which also may be a factor.
Hi Jay! Thanks for another COOL engine episode! Studying the truck engines digs up some interesting info! Who knew Ford made a 389? My best friend had a pretty nice 1976 Camper Special. He had to sell it a number of years ago. I should have bought it from him, it ran really well, but needed some brake work. WYR's both 1960's models!! LOVE those, although ALL those were some pretty good trucks! My Dad had a 1977 and a 1978 at different times. The '78 had a 302 in it, if I remember right. The '77 was a long bed extra cab and had the 300 SIX! Was a LONG truck!
to what I remember, the main difference between the MD series and the HD series is that the HD series had 3 compression rings instead of 2 on the MD series.
One of my Dad’s customers had a 1976 F100 with a 390 4 barrel carburetor and a C6 transmission. The truck had good power. But customers main complaint was that it drank gas .
@@thestevedoughtyshow27 True. But the truth of the matter is that we needed emissions controls. I never realized how bad the exhaust was in these older vehicles until one came into our dealership and was running inside the building. Even with the doors open, the exhaust was overwhelming compared to the 2000 up vehicles that could run inside the shop with only the exhaust fan running. And even then we ran the exhaust fan only because we KNOW we should. It’s actually possible to forget to turn it on. Not so with even a perfectly running Mid 1970’s vehicle. Thankfully they’ve figured out how to get good power, decent fuel economy, AND clean exhaust today. Not only that. But engines commonly last 200,000 or more today. Back then just over 100,000 was considered normal. The EPA regulations are a pain. But our air needed it.
@dmandman9 You do know the first car company to put a smog control on a car was Ford, that was in 1960. Good running mid 70's car? Turning off the key did nothing. We were in the middle of a fuel crisis, and thanks to the EPA, the cars got very bad fuel mileage. I worked for a dealership back then, too. The Dodge 440 for 1977 made 200 hp, the corvette for that year could be out run by a 1969 Chevy nova with a long six. It was the car company's that came up with computer controlled engines. The EPA HAS cost us trillions.
@@thestevedoughtyshow27 The car companies came up with computer controlled engines because that was the only way they could simultaneously meet the emissions AND fuel economy standards established by the EPA. BY the way, the government required even the early emission controls. That’s why they started using the pcv system in the late 50’s (in California) and early 1960s in the rest of the country. Before that, blow by exited the engine into the atmosphere. Cars had simple downdraft tubes. The smoke from blowby coming from under the vehicle via the downdraft tube was a common sight on those 1950’s era vehicles that were still on the road when I started paying attention to cars as a child in the late 1960’s and early 1970s.
@dmandman9 road draft tube lived for a few more years after the 1960 Ford Falcon, that pcv valve was a first. Then, in 1966 Ford came out with the first smog pump, GM followed in 1967 with A.I.R. Air injection reactor. Nixon gave us the EPA in 1972. The big three are in business to make money. If the buying public thought they made dirty cars and not doing anything to clean them up they would have lose billions. Before the EPA mandates, do you know what you could buy a new car for. My first brand new car was a 1973 Subaru, out the door, 2,750 dollars. Now you were saying old cars did not last more then 100,000 miles. My mom bought a new 1966 Mustang, when I sold it, it had 450,000 miles on it. In 73, when they took the lead out of gas it was falling down. I took the heads off and put hardened valves and seats in it, at 250,000 I rebuilt the transmission. Yes, they did last. Those good running cars from the mid 70's, good luck finding one not in the junk yard. Some of the cleanest cars of that time was the Honda, the EPA had nothing to do with that. EV,s that's the way to go, right? My Mercedes diesel is cleaner and more efficient.
In the 1971 & 1972 F 100-350, the only difference was the grille and switching from gross HP to SAE net HP. The truck you say is a 1972 has a 1971 grille. The 1971 had 2 vertical bars on each side of the center bright vertical bar of the grille. The 1972 has a single vertical bar on each side of the center bright vertical bar of the grille. My father bought a 1971 F250 new. We were surprised that Ford removed 2 bars. Our Ford had front disc brakes, with non-floating multi-piston calipers. They had bushings where the mounting bolts went through. Always a problem, always rattling. Brake pads only lasted 20K miles. They didn't have metallic linings back then for disc brakes. The Ford "F" series was re-designed from the ground up. It was the first Ford "F" series that had an integrated air-conditioning system in the dash for factory air. Fords new seamless full doublewall beds had rounded front corners so a box couldn't be wedged into the front corner. Square foot capacity was noticeably reduced. Normal full size campers couldn't slide in all the way and would have to be modified to fit. The Ford better idea "light bulb" didn't shine on that one. I'd go for the 1971 or 2, with the live front axle. The twin I-beam independent front suspension was just a gimmick and it took Ford decades to figure that one out.
hey hey what can i do led zeppelin
Yeah buddy you got it =)
Well Done 👏👏👏✌️🤠
Ford did some juggling of numbers here. The 389 and 391 both have the same bore & strike as the FE 390, but I think they fiddled with the engine sizes to differentiate the FT from the FE engines. When I moved from Chicago to Phoenix in 1982, I had a huge U-Haul box truck with a 360 and 4 speed manual. The 2bbl carb had a governor built in (it was a lot like the vacuum secondaries on a Holley 4bbl, but the governor controlled one of the throttle plates in the 2bbl carb. Loaded or unloaded, it got 4.5 mpg. The looooong climb out of Camp Verde toward Phx found me going exactly 17 mph in second gear on the freeway. I could wind it out to 18-19 and shift to third, but it just slowed down. Used a quart of oil every 100 miles. Whatever, it was cheap, and it got me back and forth. Good info on overlooked engines, Jay!
Yeah no idea why they made so many different displacements
Great insight and information =)
@@What.its.like. To tell if a core in the junkyard is an FE or FT, measure the crankshaft snout with the balancer off. If it measures 1.75 it is an FT and if it measures 1.375 it is an FE. You can measure the stroke too. Pull #1 spark plug, the first plug on the passenger side. And pull. #4 the last plug on the passenger side. With the first cylinder at TDC feel it with a wooden dowel and use the bolt on the snout to rock it back and forth at the top of the piston and when it is atTDC #4 ( last on the passenger side) will be at BDC. So when the 1 is up put a mark on the dowel from a good reference point that you can get to on 4 and put the dowel down 4 and put a mark. Measure between and you have the stroke.
3.5 is a 352 or 360 FE with the 1.375 snout and a 361 FT on a 1.75 snout . Just over 3.75 on 4 is either a 390 with the 1.375 or a 391 FT at 1.75. If it is 4 inches it is a 410 or 428. I hope this helps. And I would ask for a return refund if it is found to be cracked or damaged and unable to be repaired. The 3.79 FT crankshaft with the 1.75 snout can be interchanged with all of others but must have the snout turned down, it is made of 5140 steel and depending on your plans may not be the best choice because it weighs 75 lbs as opposed to the iron 390 / 428 crank being 60 lbs. .
1965 F250 4x4, I had one with a 410 hp 390 I built myself and it made 455 ft Ibs and the way it was geared and being a 4x4 it was unstoppable and ended up pulling everyone out of the mud. It had an NP435 4 speed and a gear driven Dana 24 2 speed transfer case a Dana 60hd and Dana44 hd. It had the closed front knuckles and I just pumped them full of grease gun grease and it drove like power steering. The FE would split an 11 inch 3 finger clutch in half when I revved it to 5500 and sidestepped it. I could wind it to 7000 rpm’s and never got stuck.
That’s 65, F250 sounds absolutely epic you still have it
I was an employee at a major metro area Ford dealership in the late '70's. I became aware of the many different displacement engines used in fomoco trucks as we had a truck department.
What stands out to me after all these years is how robust the inline 6 engine was.
I would go to the authorized engine rebuilder to pick up engines. All of them would be under hard use before a failure happened. 6 cylinder engines had gear to gear between the cam and crank. Most sixes were gears with a chain as I recall.
The FT was great to build a 428 out of. The FT heads were junk. But the 361 and 391 were thick and reinforced main bearing structure. Easy to drill for 427 style crossbolt mains.
1st scenario: The 65
2nd scenario: The 66
I've always loved the body style of that generation. 👍🏼
=) Sweet choices
I remember the F700 garbage trucks in our town had the 389 FT engines super tough trucks.
You can see with these heavy-duty applications, TORQUE is what is valued, rather than sheer horsepower.
The 330, 361, 391 are heavy duty truck engines with such things as sodium cooled valve stems.
I'd choose the 1970 Ford F250 and the 1972 Ford F250. When I pumped gas in high school I fell in love with the '70-'73 4X4 F250s that would come to the station.
I like them all .
I had a new LTL 800 tandem drive dump truck with a 389 four barrel, 5&4 transmission. Hauled 20 ton. gravel.
Awesome did you like your truck sounds like it was a beast
@@What.its.like. It was a beast. Very good lugger. Out on the road a little shy on power especially if you consider whats available now adays.
I drove a 'Bucket Truck' from '82-'87 for a Sign company. Had a 361 in the 40 ft truck and the 391 in the 2 man 50 footer.
Sorry , but this video is AUFULLLY BORING.
Well done presentation and great info. As a Ford owner I would take any of them particularly the 67-79's that era trucks was so colorful ,as well as Gm, Dodge and International .and since I owned a 79 F 250 with the 300 six, ran that over 200,000 miles no problem, still ran strong when I sold the truck..
1975
1969
Thank you so much fir sharing and digging up that information =)
One of my favorite trucks I had was a 1976 F-100 with the 360 & a 3 speed manual on the column, manual steering, but power brakes.
Never knew about these, I thought they were just standard FE engines! Learn something new every day.
They are generally lumped together with the FE engine family.. information really hard to find
The 1965 Ford f100 250 was the m100 and m250 in Canada for 1964. M for Mercury.
Great information thank you so much for sharing that
I'm far from knowledgeable about FT's but several folks who should know them told me they're a can of worms for internal parts, with both duty-specific and year-to-year variations. Bad enough there's as many sizes as there are. FT's were never installed in anything less than 3/4 ton trucks except for the 360 which was never used in anything larger than 1/2 ton, but there were plenty of those. That happened so the 351 production would be adequate for cars; there weren't enough being made for both purposes.
Not much to go by from the outside to figure out what you've got, and by now lots of these have been swapped so what is supposed to be there may not be and it's hard to tell. And to the non-expert eye they look like FE's. After they ended FT production the smaller (up to one ton) trucks could have SBF 302's and 351W's or the larger 385 series engines which I think were strengthened and called "SD".The SBF's in these years were regular 'car' engines.
No preference for the WYR as I'm not a fan of Fords above 1/2 ton.
Totally agree and the information that’s out there is conflicting at best.. I’m sure finding people who know these engines are getting few and far between.. I’d stick to FE personally way easier to get parts google doesn’t know what those engines are especially 389 ford 359 another one..
361... not 360.
Ft's were used in HD trucks like dump, bucket, and straight trucks
360 was for pickups
70 Ford f250, 72 . My dad had a 69 F100 and then a 71 f100
wyr 1965 F250
wyr 1972 F250
They put a lot of high quality parts in those engines like forged cranks and sodium filled valves. I guess the heads and cam are what limited them and did not give the high performance numbers. I remember trucks with the 360 in it, but I always thought it was a down sized 390 FE , you learn stuff all the time.
Thx Jay .
Great choices =)
This episode has been in the pipeline information super hard to find on these
For WYR, It’s the ‘75, and the ‘72.
Sweet choices
All of the engines you have in this video did not come in any of the trucks in the would you rather with the exception of the 360 which could be found in pickups like the f100 and f250. All of the other engines only came in trucks like the f500 and larger (2 ton size and up). The other important difference between the FT engines and the FE engines is that the FT engines were externally balanced while the FE engines were internally balanced. The 360 found in pickups is internally balanced making it more of an FE motor (really it was just the 361 from the Edsel that was detuned for pickups and not put in cars. Called it the the 360 to differentiate it from the Edsel 361). FT engines don't swap into pickups very well because of the external balancing therefore the accessories that are on pickups won't fit on the FT engine.
.
So many choices just in engines I think id like the 72 F250 with the 360 4speed in the high boy set up because they are not only beautiful but incredibly capable and indestructible
Great information thank you so much for sharing your truck with us
Hey, great vid. One addition I'd like to offer. I have a 1968 F500 with the 330MD, and the number plate on the truck shows a 164 net HP @ 3,800 RPM rating. This is a Canadian truck, don't know if they had different rating options here. Also, it was a government fleet unit I got from surplus which also may be a factor.
Awesome thank you so much for sharing that information
Hi Jay! Thanks for another COOL engine episode! Studying the truck engines digs up some interesting info! Who knew Ford made a 389? My best friend had a pretty nice 1976 Camper Special. He had to sell it a number of years ago. I should have bought it from him, it ran really well, but needed some brake work. WYR's both 1960's models!! LOVE those, although ALL those were some pretty good trucks! My Dad had a 1977 and a 1978 at different times. The '78 had a 302 in it, if I remember right. The '77 was a long bed extra cab and had the 300 SIX! Was a LONG truck!
Great choices this was a hard one to get information for
My '72 F100 Sport Custom had a 391. It got stolen when I lived in Tucson and was never recovered.
Crazy story I didn’t know you lived in Tucson
I didn't know anything about these engines. Thanks for the video
WYR: All of them.
Haha nice =)
The 1965 F-250 only with a fleet side, not the ugly step side.
Another great engine overview, Jay. Thank you.
Thank you glad you enjoyed this episode. It was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever done.
1969 Ford for me 😊
Great Episode
Happy Motoring ✌️🤠
Great episode!!!!
Thank you glad you dig this one
to what I remember, the main difference between the MD series and the HD series is that the HD series had 3 compression rings instead of 2 on the MD series.
Thank you so much fir sharing that information
Ford will design and entire new engine family for any reason.
They made 3 different 351s in the 70s...
I totally agree. Ford and Chrysler have really complicated engine lineages.
@@What.its.like.You can literally take a 1959 Powerglide and bolt it behind a 2007 LS2.
GM is magic sometimes...
That’s the way it should be across the board
One of my Dad’s customers had a 1976 F100 with a 390 4 barrel carburetor and a C6 transmission. The truck had good power. But customers main complaint was that it drank gas .
Thank the EPA for that.
@@thestevedoughtyshow27 True. But the truth of the matter is that we needed emissions controls. I never realized how bad the exhaust was in these older vehicles until one came into our dealership and was running inside the building. Even with the doors open, the exhaust was overwhelming compared to the 2000 up vehicles that could run inside the shop with only the exhaust fan running. And even then we ran the exhaust fan only because we KNOW we should. It’s actually possible to forget to turn it on. Not so with even a perfectly running Mid 1970’s vehicle. Thankfully they’ve figured out how to get good power, decent fuel economy, AND clean exhaust today. Not only that. But engines commonly last 200,000 or more today. Back then just over 100,000 was considered normal. The EPA regulations are a pain. But our air needed it.
@dmandman9 You do know the first car company to put a smog control on a car was Ford, that was in 1960. Good running mid 70's car? Turning off the key did nothing. We were in the middle of a fuel crisis, and thanks to the EPA, the cars got very bad fuel mileage. I worked for a dealership back then, too. The Dodge 440 for 1977 made 200 hp, the corvette for that year could be out run by a 1969 Chevy nova with a long six. It was the car company's that came up with computer controlled engines. The EPA HAS cost us trillions.
@@thestevedoughtyshow27 The car companies came up with computer controlled engines because that was the only way they could simultaneously meet the emissions AND fuel economy standards established by the EPA. BY the way, the government required even the early emission controls. That’s why they started using the pcv system in the late 50’s (in California) and early 1960s in the rest of the country. Before that, blow by exited the engine into the atmosphere. Cars had simple downdraft tubes. The smoke from blowby coming from under the vehicle via the downdraft tube was a common sight on those 1950’s era vehicles that were still on the road when I started paying attention to cars as a child in the late 1960’s and early 1970s.
@dmandman9 road draft tube lived for a few more years after the 1960 Ford Falcon, that pcv valve was a first. Then, in 1966 Ford came out with the first smog pump, GM followed in 1967 with A.I.R. Air injection reactor. Nixon gave us the EPA in 1972. The big three are in business to make money. If the buying public thought they made dirty cars and not doing anything to clean them up they would have lose billions. Before the EPA mandates, do you know what you could buy a new car for. My first brand new car was a 1973 Subaru, out the door, 2,750 dollars. Now you were saying old cars did not last more then 100,000 miles. My mom bought a new 1966 Mustang, when I sold it, it had 450,000 miles on it. In 73, when they took the lead out of gas it was falling down. I took the heads off and put hardened valves and seats in it, at 250,000 I rebuilt the transmission. Yes, they did last. Those good running cars from the mid 70's, good luck finding one not in the junk yard. Some of the cleanest cars of that time was the Honda, the EPA had nothing to do with that. EV,s that's the way to go, right? My Mercedes diesel is cleaner and more efficient.
I had a 71 F-100 with the 360 never cared much for it.
I'll take the F250. Any of them.
B O R I N G ! ! ! !
.
1972, larger cab and fm radio,
75
In the 1971 & 1972 F 100-350, the only difference was the grille and switching from gross HP to SAE net HP. The truck you say is a 1972 has a 1971 grille. The 1971 had 2 vertical bars on each side of the center bright vertical bar of the grille. The 1972 has a single vertical bar on each side of the center bright vertical bar of the grille. My father bought a 1971 F250 new. We were surprised that Ford removed 2 bars.
Our Ford had front disc brakes, with non-floating multi-piston calipers. They had bushings where the mounting bolts went through. Always a problem, always rattling. Brake pads only lasted 20K miles. They didn't have metallic linings back then for disc brakes.
The Ford "F" series was re-designed from the ground up. It was the first Ford "F" series that had an integrated air-conditioning system in the dash for factory air. Fords new seamless full doublewall beds had rounded front corners so a box couldn't be wedged into the front corner. Square foot capacity was noticeably reduced. Normal full size campers couldn't slide in all the way and would have to be modified to fit. The Ford better idea "light bulb" didn't shine on that one.
I'd go for the 1971 or 2, with the live front axle. The twin I-beam independent front suspension was just a gimmick and it took Ford decades to figure that one out.
Thank you so much for sharing all that information
I was going to mention the 1972 pictured has a 1971 grill, Mr. Picky is a little behind on his viewing.
@@user-oj9dq8io7r Already mentioned the incorrect grille. Talking about somebody being behind............
370 ?
.
Wasn’t the 370 later on in the 80s?
led zepp i got a woman ?
70
69
75 F250 72 F250
Sweet choices
Junk
Never lasted .
.