Twin Cam Tear Down Harley Part 1 - INTERVIEW WITH DEFECTIVE M8 OWNER - Kevin Baxter - Pro Twin Perfo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2020
- Twin Cam Tear Down. In this video series, you will see the tear down of a Twin Cam Harley engine and we interview the defective M8 owner! I will inspect and explain every component telling you exactly what to look for. We tear down this Harley Twin Cam 96 or Twin Cam 88 step by step. This is part 1 of a 4 part series. Harley M8 vs Twin Cam. Which is better? Is the Twin Cam Harley better than Milwaukee 8? Or is the Harley Milwaukee 8 better than the Twin Cam?
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Pro Twin Performance and Baxter's Garage
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This is like going to school, but the most interesting class you have.
I'm glad you're doing this. My 2012 Superglide had a BUNCH of metal, aluminum shavings, for the 1st 10K miles. Plugged oil passages, 2 quart oil refill, till I was finally at 2.75 quarts of oil. (At 10K.) Dealer said, don't worry. That said, it now has 106K miles on it with never a wrench to the motor. Blessed. No other explanation. But when it comes time to rebuild her, I'm trailering her back to you boys, from Arizona. Yup! I'm sold on you boys.
Since he complained about it before the factory warranty expired, the factory should be covering the warranty.
Motor Co. has a house full of high priced attorneys to fight Average Joe through the court system.
Kevin did say the Motor Co. is honoring the warranty and through his shop!
@@danielgaskell5490 no, he said the extended warranty was covering it.
Your videos, people like you, will keep the aftermarket world of Harley alive. Budweiser sold out awhile back to some conglomerate outside the states. HD aint gonna last 2 maybe 3 more years. They'll close up or sale out. Im buying them up as I can afford them. They're the next Hemi Cuda, Chevelle, 409 Impala, Gto. I see the writing on the wall. Harley has a prototype of an electric bycicle, petal assist, slated for march or so. Kinda harkins back to the teens. Gonna by one if it comes. I expect 3 grand for it. Manufacturers nowadays just seem to follow the, get it out there, no recalls and let the customer tote the fallout. What happened to us?
Kevin, It was nice to hear your comments about the motor company. It seems that people are quick to criticize the company, and you don't hear positive comments very often. Harley Davidson produces great motorcycles. Sometimes things get through the assembly line and inspections, but that is just the nature of mass production. Even the defective M8 ran well until you figured it out. Thank you for another great video.
A couple have commented that all my videos do is talk about the bad, and none of the good. I look at it like this....the MC already does a nice job of telling people how great their bikes are. As a whole, they are. But...people don't need help when nothing is wrong. They need tech, help, and direction when things aren't so good....and that's what were here for. Also...we are the type of shop that the hard stuff comes to. Be it dealers, other shops, or people from other states and countries that have issues that cant seem to get resolved...that means, we see problems. Every day....collectively. One shop may say "we dont see that" or "we rarely see that". And that can often be because they are a shop that doesn't see the types of complex issues we do or do as many engines or build as many bikes as we do. Therefore, we DO see these problems....and people should know in the event they experience similar issues. If anyone has been a viewer long enough, they will know we don't bash anyone....not even the MC. We present facts as best we know them to be. And if we aren't sure....we will say so. Also...many of the bikes we work on are well outside of warranty...and those owners are less likely to go to a dealership when repairs like these are needed...meaning...at times, a great dealer tech may not be aware, or regularly see, these common long term problems we do. No fault of theirs...it just is what it is. Thank you for a great comment and for watching.
The setup with the camera is better than I thought, it gives a really good view of the fine details. Well done.
My problem isn’t with HD quality control or commitment to quality, it’s the response to a customer concern and failure to address a manufacturing defect in their engine. No ownership or accountability from HD that completely dismissed a customer complaint. Might be a specific dealership but in my experience it is universal among HD.
I had 1 dealer that treated me very well they sold me a bum used fat boy that was punched out to a 95 Cid it would blow oil out of the exhaust id go through a full quart every 100 miles. After tearing the engine apart 3 times they offered me a replacement bike that cost 4k more than the fat boy. Straight up trade and I am really enjoying my streetglide
@@Running-with-skizers That’s great, glad you had a positive experience. Any chance you can share what dealer, I’d love to know. Thanks
@@Squatch_Rider66 it was Z and M in Greensburg Pennsylvania
I tend to blame the dealer and not HD. HD maintains an arm's length from retail customers for a very good reason. They would never have the staff to address all customer concerns directly. That's what the dealers are for. If your dealer does not give you the answer you would expect, go to another dealer.
Delt with 3 dealers in Australia and all were fantastic
I figure that camera is less than comfortable. But I appreciate the bird's eye view. Thank you.
I’ve renewed that warranty twice best investment you will ever make if your gonna ride it.
I’m looking forward to the Evo repair series. I bought a ‘93 Heritage new in ‘93 and rode it through 46 states and 210k miles before rebuilding it. It currently has 23k miles on the rebuild and has been coast to coast twice in Summer 2020.I’ll never part with it and I dig carbureted Evos !
What we need is a stand alone bolt on throttle body that has its computer built in ..like FiTech for cars ..all you do is bolt it on and run a 12vdc cable to it and hook up a 02sencer And it self tunes its self
What we need is a stand alone bolt on throttle body that has its computer built in ..like FiTech for cars ..all you do is bolt it on and run a 12vdc cable to it and hook up a 02sencer And it self tunes its self
Not every Harley dealer is bad. Glad this guy is getting taken care of but in the meantime he should find a new dealer to work with.
I'm sure now with his experiences with dealers,only Kevin will be working on that bike.
Can’t wait for the M8 rebuild series!
My advice to the owner of the m8. I work at a GM dealership, have worked at Ford also. When you have issues like that always keep taking it in and make them write a repair order so there is documentation of the issue so when it is out of warranty they HAVE to still cover it. And if the dealer won't attempt to duplicate it and repair it than find another dealer and contact the manufacturer. Manufacturers don't like to here from consumers that they can't get their product fixed and will do what is necessary to make you happy.
I've had plenty of problem child's like that over the years, one if the simplest ways to duplicate it is ask the customer if I can drive it for a few days back and forth to work and around so I see if I can duplicate the issue. The problem is that when your TRYING to make it happen it usually won't but if you just ride it normal it will but it just takes longer.
I bet if he would have called HD they probably would have sent a new engine and took that one back for teardown and analysis.
I've also been in your shoes, diagnosis and repair something others couldn't or wouldn't fix. I've had GM call me to tell me a customer is coming from another dealer so I could fix the vehicle. Frustrating and really irks me that someone will treat a customer that way!
I now you said everyone makes mistakes but HD Motor Co is not going to like you for showing their mistakes. I think your doing the right thing. Thanks for the video.
TY for sharing your experiences, expertise & time Kevin! Exxxcellent again!!!
Your a great guy Kevin! Thanks so much for your expertise as it’s greatly appreciated. We all know how Harley dealers treat their customers (not bashing Harley) , but we always get the cold shoulder at dealers. I bought my bike knowing from day one I was going to be the mechanic on it and i wouldn’t even think of bringing my bike to the dealer for warranty work let alone any other service except brake fluid changes in order to hopefully (praying) , warranty the abs and brake system. And hopefully they flush the system properly by cycling the abs pump while changing the fluid. I pray for Harley and that they make a big comeback and make the changes they need for future customers.
I had a loud whining noise in my Evo Heritage a few years ago. Called my bikeshop (not an HD dealer or even HD specialist) and they picked up the bike...they checked it on the spot, ofcourse no noise. But still they took me very seriously, they rode it for a few days until it started making the noise. I had just bought the bike from them a few weeks before and they gave me the choice of me getting my old bike and money back, changing the bike for another or having this bike fixed. Seeing that I had to go on a bike holiday two weeks later I opted for another bike (twin cam heritage). Now THAT was service I have never seen before. All other bikes I have bought or had serviced after that has been with this shop. Thats how you keep customers.
I'm learning a lot, Kevin. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us!
Just finished watching and loved every minute of it. this is how you learn from the best and Kevin is right up there with the best. Looking forward to the rest, Thank you Kevin.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you BOB!!!
Good video - glad your there to help the man out. Every now and then you find a decent mechanic at a dealer shop but most of the time it's a joke. Charging big money and taking no care at all for your. They love to excuse the issues. My experience anyway. Luckily, I haven't had any issues like Alan.
Most underrated motorcycle channel on TH-cam. U listen to ur viewers and produce awesome interesting content . Hope u have nothing but success Mr Kevin Baxter ☝️❤🇺🇸
Hell yeah Kev! Im a water plant operator, but im a mechanic by heart, and i love your videos man! Keep up the great work. I cant wait for the next video to drop.
I’m very intrigued with your knowledge of V-Twins and my lack there of lol. I know the basics but as a High School teacher once told me knowledge is never wasted! So glad your taking your time to include us in this journey. Not to mention I have 2017 RGS with the first generation Milwaukee 8 engine. 15K miles on mine so far, and very lucky other then a little oil consumption. I do have HD’s torque cam and tuner high flow x-pipe exhaust and ventilator intake. As to keep my ESP 🤷🏻 don’t shoot the messenger. Thanks again!....
A lot of fun tonight Kevin. Thanks for the plug gap fix. I'll be putting new ones in in the spring.
Peace, and be safe...
Great start to the series Kevin! Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your vast knowledge and experience. Love this type of videos!
This is just great Kevin! Thanks for showing us what you look for.....
You’re the man. Good stuff Kevin. I’m now an Evo man
I'm pumped up for this next series like a premium S&S lifter
man....i like how you did that. LOL. awesome.
Had the similar experience with dealer after cam plate/oil pump upgrade in my 99 RK. They kept telling me lifter noise was normal and could find nothing wrong. Went to different dealer they put in non MOCO lifters problem solved. I was able to get the first dealer to pay for the work done by the second one.
This channel became one of my favourites! Super interesting videos! Greetings from Hungary!
Yes sir!....this series is gonna be an awesome tool for me....thanks man!...2003 cvo road king ann edition. Se103 engine
This is fantastic Kevin, this is relevant to me because I have a 2007 RK with 50,000 + on it. Very interesting to see the same engine being showcased.
Thank you for the great content! Looking forward to everything mentioned for future posts
I was a die hard HD guy for most of my life. I even worked for a short time at an HD dealership just cause I wanted to - not cause I needed to. However, HD is probably the only brand of motorcycles where a full rebuild is done at a paltry 21k miles - and that's totally normal and no one seems to bat an eye at the thought. I have owned and ridden pretty much every major model group of HD over the years, and working my way up to finally buying a brand new '15 CVO Road Glide Ultra. Put 68k miles on it in two years, and it was falling apart towards the end. I took care of it like a baby, but I do ride hard and fast and long stretches across America. The bike spent such a ridiculous amount of time in dealerships across the country getting one electronic module after another replaced. The motor was totally tired and spent after 60k miles. Not what I expected from a $40k motorcycle that had been a dream bike. One day, a good friend of my coerced me into riding his new Goldwing, and I was utterly blown away. Not only was it so much more powerful and faster than my 110 Screamin' Eagle, it was like riding silk. It was a completely different, amazing, pleasant, smooth experience. And it handled as good as a sport bike. I got rid of the CVO, and got a Goldwing. I'm at 70k miles on it, and not one single issue - other than I found I was riding so aggressive now because of how the bike handles, I was tearing up tires like nothing. I went double Darkside on the Goldwing, and shouldn't need to even replace a rear tire until past 100k miles. I'll never go back to HD ever again. If you love to really ride, and ride across the country all the time - then do yourself a favor, and try riding a new Goldwing.
Man what a heartbreaking story. Very happy she got you home Allen. And from what I've seen and learned from Mr Baxter so far, your bike is in the best place it could possibly be. Looking forward to seeing the finished product!
No doubt
Look forward to the series - They'll be an invaluable referential resource. Many Thanks.
Very nicely done video as usual and thank you!! Now, place yourself in the shoes of a CVO owner. They shell out $40000 for a CVO motorcycle and much more for the CVO trike. If it were me , I would not settle for this wear at 21000 miles. CVO's should have blueprinted engines with far higher quality control for what the motorcycle company is getting.
Awesome work, and the "head-cam" views were right on! So COOL to have the "technician's perspective"!! Can't wait to see the rest of the 96 TC Overhaul, as I have a 2010 96 TC and will be doing some upgrades internally as well. I'm experiencing rocker/valve/tappet noise as well and was looking into the rocker shaft tapered bushings to lock down the shafts, but, may have to opt for new shafts and plates to make a proper long term repair. Time will tell!!
The 2 camera setup is awesome
I've been wanting to see this video series since my first notice about it came up but I've had things come up and my wife's youngest son (41) decided he would move up to Maryland with us from southern Virginia and get away from the bad influences and habits so I did stay up tonight and catch this one but it's almost 2:00 am. and I've got to get to bed. I love the head cam. and your pretty damn good with keeping it on spot. So thanks and good night.
I absolutely love the fact that you are building a touring bike with a touring based engine. Makes me wish I had found this before as sold my '07 Ultra
Congrats man! Awesome enjoying your videos🙌🙏
Love the new camera and view. Excellent content. Keep up the good work my friend.
Super interested in the twin cam stuff as I now have two of them in the garage to take care of. Thanks for the details!
Hi Kev yet another great series & as usual wonderful delivery of content . I would gladly give you all my business if only you had a shop here in QLD Australia. I have an issue with my 2014 RK Classic where by if I wipe out the inside of my rear cylinder muffler i always find it sticky with fine oil film. The bike runs well, has been Dyno tuned, is very well maintained but uses oil. Dealership who has always maintained the bike keeps telling me it’s fine. I’ve had them do a compression test as well as a draw down test. Comp test showed over 200psi. Leak down they say is within specification. Stop worrying they always tell me, we know your bike. The oil dip stick was marked at last service and I did a 1000 mile trip the following week and I took it back and showed them the dip stick level after the ride. It needed about 9 1/2 ounces to top it back up. Their Answer was that the oil usage is ok and in spec. To which I replied why is oil film only in one muffler as I assume that’s where I’m blowing oil out. I said maybe I’ve got a valve spring or seating issue. Reply was we’ll take your money if you want us to do that but the bikes ok. When I clean my Heavy breather air filter it shows no oil other than the pink oil filter coating oil. The Intake is also clean. Just don’t know anyone with your skills to get to the bottom of this before it becomes an issue. On a brighter note after watching your oil segment a few months ago I went on the hunt for AMS Oil I’ve just found someone who sells it. I’ve just purchased everything to convert all fluids & will get this done tomorrow. I’m also going to pull the plugs and see if I can get a feel to what’ may be going on inside that rear cylinder.
Merry Xmas to you Kev & all the boys in your shop. I try not to miss anything you put out. Hope you’ve got enough energy to keep it up. Ps what’s happened to the red cup lately?
Kevin, I love your videos. I’m a heavy duty diesel truck mechanic and do all my own Harley work. I have one Twin Cam with a factory sidecar and five Evos. Two Sportsters and three big twins. I would love to see some Evo stuff. Thanks for the great videos.
Thank you sir. Evo build series coming soon!
Wow haha randomly watch some guy in the states mentioned APL performance. I had some work done there in my 2018 fat Bob his only 20km from my home. He is a very nice man. Cheers thanks for the videos
Great info and the new GoPro camera angle is excellent in my opinion. Another interesting video thank you...
Great Job Kevin, You have a new Fan!
I’m excited for the evo build
Thank ya sir for videos like this one. I find them very interesting and entertaining to watch and learn as I drink a morning cup of Joe.
Glad you like them! thank you sir.
So much good information...I do like the POV camera.
I would love to just work and learn all day from you.
Hooah
Intermittent problems are the worst ones to diagnose and repair. As we saw with this bike , it ran great and if you looked in the normal areas you would find nothing unusual. If indeed you heard the noise you would know something was wrong but that's if you heard it.
Love the top. I have work on my bikes by APL (Windsor, NSW, Australia). A good business and great people. Good One.
Right on!
Really enjoyed the video. I’m looking forward to learning more about the twin cam engine as I have a mildly enhanced 2005 fatboy.
The guy that owns the harley with the shavings is my best friend I told him he was being too nice to harley looks like a duck sounds like a duck it must be a duck
I agree. I'm very disappointed with they way i have been treated here in Australia too. Premium price sub standard service i believe.
BTW, I had real clacky lifters too. They said don't worry about that either. It took over 90K miles for those to stop clacking. Blessed again. But won't ever go back to them. But I'm sold on you boys. HD owners love their bikes. When they find someone else that has that same love, or at least same respect, they use them for their doctor--I mean mechanic. :-)
Great videos keep up the good work.
Hi Recent graduate from MMI.
Great video very informative!!
Wanted to give an input of what I've seen in the new coming up mmi is a business, the guality of work/hands on and teaching has been water downed. Were pushed through like another number. And when we get to the dealership seems as thought were still another number and not getting that quality training that is need to maintain engines. But my advice is to find a dealership that has Experienced Techs that do give a damn how these engines are maintained. This is the trouble I'm running into finding a dealership that does have that quality. But unfortunately that is what ill be jumping into since I have little to no experience about engines, and try to build that experience. I'm sorry to hear that the tech didn't listen to the gentleman's problem, Yet glad! to hear there are independent knowledgeable owners like yourself to help people/techs learn more!
Again great video keep doing what your doin!
thank you for your interesting comments here and for your kind words. i wish you well with your career endeavours sir. best of luck
Excellent vid.
I bought a1200 sportster custom in 2008 and took it back to the dealer for valve noise( I am a mechanic)and believe it or not they called me back a few days later and said Harley was replacing the engine which only took about 3 weeks!
Another good series.👍
Thanks 👍
The Stealership just wants to deny warranty claims. They don't get paid as much for warranty claims as they do for regular work.
Thank You! For these videos it's sad some dealers or I should say the service advisors can't or won't take some time with their customers and try to help them after the sale not all are unwilling to listen but too many don't. I guess it's not a bad thing for you and your employees but it hurts the company. I think your disclaimer about your findings was standup the right thing to say a Harley Davidson is a great motorcycle but it's like anything it can wear and wear out parts
Great video keep them coming! Wow 21k miles & all those issues? I have 105,000 miles no issues. Knock on wood! Maybe he doesn't ride it enough?
I just fell asleep ..did I miss anything?.lol...playin..great vidja....took a while to get to raisin Cain..but glad I got there...good job guys
Enjoyed....look forward to next one. Very curious as to what you have found. Darrell knew if we kept riding it, something bad was gonna happen. Didn't burn the biscuits....😁
Well.....Darrell was right. It was a time bomb. You'll be surprised. Have a biscuit for me!
Darrell did...he had three that he admits too...
😏
These tutorial videos are helpful and well done. The only problem I have with them is my wallet starts begging for mercy! I have an 07 twin cam 96 softail standard getting ready to hit 30k. Needless to say I’m a little Leary about opening up the cam chest. $$$$$$$
Good comments on HD... because of them many thousands of $$$$$$$$$ have been made by ships across the world.
And yes things happen when you produce bikes like they do.
Mate ,I'll tell Adam and Julie you said hi love your work cheers from Oz
Thanks Rod! Cheers Mate!
Hey Kevin , excellent vids , have you ever used Rockouts or Rocker lockers ? , i had a top end tick and found the rocker shaft slaping the bolt that holds the rocker assembly on , a defect Harley should have caught in the designe , i used Rockouts and completely eliminated the tick , cheep and simple fix , keep up the great vids ...
Dang it KB now I have to change my TPS....LOL!!! Great video....
LOL. i do it as a precaution but never have issues people complain about related to TPS either.
Interesting I had a 2007 Street Glide, I had several problems with it over the years and the dealership wasn't doing anything about it. The bike would make noise when starting, and at times when shutting it down. Ended being the compensator problem but I had to pay an upcharge to get the SE one installed. They also had to change the clutch basket and ring gear because it was damaged as well. That all happened under the extended warranty period just short of 5 years after I bought it at 48K.
Yes sir...you were one of many. You definitely dont want to miss tonights. We cover all of that.
It seems with Harley the more money you pay the worst of the the bike get
Watching you videos...great job. Would like to see crankcase split....
Kevin, you talked about checking the ohms on the spark plug wires. What numbers do you like to see when checking the wires?
Fasinating story would like to see if the M8 is as strong and lasting as the Evo. This as i been riding HD Evo for 30 years..
I like the head cam so we can see what you are looking at!
sweet. a little jerky, and adds a bunch to editing time but hey...if you guys like it, im all about it.
I fixed both my twin cams I sold both of them and bought a 98 FLSTF Evo. Problem solved.
Thank you for the video, though i wish you would started the tear down video at the beginning when you removed the rocker covers, push rods, etc. I'm still a novice wrench turner, and it would have been helpful.
"Nothing wrong. That noise is normal." Bet I know the dealership.
Me too : “Anywhere H-D, in Everyplace USA”
Thank you for refraining. I have a standing rule in my shop...have for over 20 years, on here, and socially in my day to day. In the shop, I never want to know who may have previously worked on a bike. Its of no concern to me. Second...Noone, not employees or customers, are permitted to speak poorly of other shops. If they choose to tell others of a bad experience somewhere else, thats for them to decide...but not in my place. Also...not here or socially. I would hope if a customer had a concern with us, it would be discussed with me first and handled appropriately. Its a respect thing for me...and to be blunt, i have always preferred to build business and reputation based on abilities and professionalism, not off of bad experiences someone had elsewhere. Hope that makes sense. Respect sir. 🙌
These shop videos are invaluable!! How can we fund you?
"They all do that" is the first thing they teach a would-be Harley tech to say
I am still on the M8. I have a 107 Breakout 2018. It doesn't seem to make any bad noises. I have another year of warranty . Sometimes it doesn't get very good gas mileage. I don't think it gets really hot. I only have 5000 miles on it. Should I do anything or just ride it
My apologies. I'm overly interactive with the videos I choose to enjoy. Comes with having been a millwright, a machinist, a mechanic and obsessive pursuit of customer service, their satisfaction and absolute perfection of a well done job. They used to call that skilled labor.
Love ya videos Kevin. The wear on the lifter roller, is it wear on roller shaft that you noticed.
Cheers
Kevin from OZ🇦🇺
What are the ball park compression numbers you are looking for on a Twin Cam? I realize you want both cylinders to be close to each other but, mine seemed high. I have a new gauge and was thinking it was off.
It's unfortunate that he had a garbage service dept at his dealership. Mine at Redstone Harley in Huntsville, AL is absolutely amazing. The owner is a prior tech and will open early at stay late if he needs to.
question? Since tore down why not replace chain cam tensioner with a chain drive. Isn’t it beneficial in long run . I know is more costly , new cams , pushrods etc
Man thats one tuff engine
Could you, would you consider performing a gas filter inspection/replacement?
I have an FXDC with around 21k miles and it seems to be starting with difficulty.
Getting dealers to listen it's really hard because it'll cost them time and money. I had a Yamaha FJ12 a long time ago. Bought from a dealer with 100 miles on it. When hot that motor was so noisy with horrible gear box. When the motor is cooler it was fine. It went back to Yamaha who listened to it cold, it was fine. They just refused to go further. I had to sell it on in the end.
I have a 2019 Road King with 21,000 miles on it. Should I have a leak down compression test done on it? Before warranty runs out?
When y'all are doing a 88 ci upgrades like you did on this dresser, how much can you go. Or other words have y'all done a 88Ci upgrades lately
Any advice on how to make a 14 sgs 103 hi output bullet proof?
Hi Kev, awesome content. Do you have any Victory related videos in your arsenal?
only a couple...but nothing too technical. we work on em though.
Kevin, you're in love with Harley because they sell a crappy product and keeps you busy fixing their crap. Truth.
I wouldn’t drop this on HD manufacturing so quickly. I suspected shortly into the 1st episode of the tear down series that these shavings weren’t familiar with a self destructing engine. Sabotage seems more believable than cleaning oversight at assembly. I’d also add the dealer to the suspect list.
As a lifelong GM tech ..They should have used a Picko scope to validate any engine noise ... knock sensor if equipment ,would and could be viewed through live data throughout Rpm ranges ...or go old school with stethoscope....second the client should have BEEN Taken seriously especially when they already had a scavenging issue to begin with.....I enjoy your videos nothing beats a gear head brother keep it up 👍🏼 😎👊🏼😈🛠...... My question to you and the client is have you reached out to Harley or there regional offices,tech line, field engineer on this issue being YOU have the evidence in hand /videos was so overwhelming ?? Did they make it right for the client??
I think HD rely on engineers like Kevin! I love my 2004 Heritage, but it's so needy. 25k miles and we're looking at major engine work- cam chain tensioner.... My 2002 ST1300 and I have done close to 0.25 million miles, and apart from a few bulbs, fork seals, and not much else the ruddy thing is just bomb proof. Why, oh why can't HD make a reliable bike?????????