Modifying a Sur Ron to 35kw makes no sense at all. Destroyed by a Starc Varg for less money.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2023
- In my opinion it makes no sense to spend $13,000+ to modify a stock Sur Ron to the point where it can hit 35kw. For less money you can have a Starc Varg which is actually built for it. The video breaks down my case. Now if you disagree feel free to do so but you will need to come at this without emotion and demonstrate with cold hard facts why throwing money at Sur Ron upgrades makes sense if your goal is to ride at these kinds of power.
All the content in this video is transformative in nature, used for informational and educational purposes, and is not an infringement on copyright. This video complies with the US Fair Use Copyright Act of 1976. No copyright infringement is intended, and all materials belong to their respective copyright owners. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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People tend to buy sur Rons because they're small and cops are barely starting to crack down on them.
But yeah upgrading them isn't worth it anymore since the Ultra Bee and Varg are available
They are pretty much shut down in the UK now. Not sure about all of the USA. I think it depends. Where I am there is just so much crown land you can ride on. But you can take anything out on that gas or electric.
I've had the same thought myself & have even asked modded Surron owners why they would even embark upon such a project when the Surron's main appeal is you "only" have to spend $ 4,000 for an emoto.
When you take into consideration your $ 13,000 number doesn't even include numerous "required" parts ( m/c brakes, bars, stem, pegs, primary drive, $ 4,000+ battery, display, bodywork, decals & & &) there are no doubt $ 17,000 Surrons.
What I don't get is even when completed, the result isn't always going to equal the sum of it's parts (ie. a Frankenbike) & you still have a bike better suited to riders under 5" 5". I also wonder how long a frame designed for a $ 4,000 bike with a 5kw motor is going to last with a 25Kw - 35Kw powerplant doing 100' doubles.
The best explaination to why build a Light bee was the excitement of "engineering" their personal dream bike & that when completed it'll be 100lbs. lighter than a Stark. I don't think Surron builders even consider Starks. They aren't racers, their bikes are more "statements". They'd rather build a $ 200,000 GTR instead of buying a GT3RS.
You may well hit something there. More of a status thing. I remember when I was younger people would spend crazy money modifying Ford Escorts. By the end the could have had a BMW. Most people also do it in stages. So not all at once. But some do get it all at once. Like that 15k bike. It's not even got decent fenders. That motor is not that expensive to manufacture either.
You had me until you said swap the shocks with fox 40s. Worst advice ever on bike that powerful. You need more research, but your point is still valid.
I agree. I have WP to fit on mine. I think using bike stuff is thrashing it to its limits but fox stuff has been the go to for a lot of the Sur Ron guys. There needs to be a middle ground of affordable and more durable shocks that are not mtb and not full on motocross either.
@HighVoltageKits they already have options way better than fox. The newest fast ace, the 2024 KKe. The BOSS and EXT ferro. All superior than the Fox. The Talaria factory fork is even way better.
hold on, about Torp, they are based on VESC secretly but don't allow current control throttle, which means they're pure speed control Only
Yeah I heard they were using VESC tech in breach of the open source rules. They are lucky there are still able to sell it.
@@HighVoltageKits btw about Flipsky etc, there also is Makerbase, but afaik most of those things weren't directly designed by them
Makerbase made the HP series, which are actually true phase sensing models with proper naming (i.e. not recommended to go over 84V) and are fully opensource
they're also cheap as hell, picked my 84200HP's up for only €110 a piece and they use INA 241A's (which is the higher voltage version of the INA240, previously commonly used in 60V max phase sensing vescs that did not use the DRV chips, but those are proper current sensors, not the opamp garbage Flipsky and Makerbase pulled off with the 75200's
it also has phase filters, they're sort of based on the 75/300 but with 100V max components, the ina241A's having 110V max common mode bandwidth
that is particularly exciting as you can literally run any motor with genuine silent HFI, which works really, really good, if you have a temperature probe in the motor and tuned well it is actually far more accurate and effective than hall sensors
As someone who modded all sorts of e vehicles to go faster with more power I fully agree about the limits of said vehicle. Surron will be a monster at 10-15kw but past that everything will become a bottleneck. Nobody wants to ride a dirt bike that could break in half on every jump or acceleration.
Yeah. I was happy at 8-9. That's me. Greg did one that pulls 12kw. If they tried to take the Sur Ron around a track that the Varg was handling with ease its not going to last very long.
Only reason I can see as valuable for a 30kw sur ron is if you want to be stealth while riding a very powerful ebike on the streets and be less risky to get caught
The window for people to get away with the Sur Ron is fast closing I think.
Good poits I must admit, but for me as a small rider a surron lightbee is perfect. I can flick it around like a downhill bike.
You are absolutely right, the prices for a high end surron is way over the top.
I will be keeping mine in the 8-10kw range. Good point on the weight. The Varg is a big beast.
I agree.engineers usually know more than me. Building an ebike can become an ebike building competition instead of enjoyment and transport and a case of ever diminishing returns
I made so many mistakes with my build. I'll update it when I get the chance.
@@HighVoltageKitsi need the display you sent me with the asi kit and need one with the same plug to go on the harnness .
15KW is more then enough power for a surron
100%
seen quite a few people dump 5 figures into a surron light bee build only to sell them off at a huge loss. 15 kw is more than enough for sure. and the regulations will slowly creep in. the point of "e-bikes" was not to need insurance payments and registration tags. just get a motorcycle pretty much lol
Yeah. Did you see some of the stuff that were pulling off on the Starc. Impressive as hell.
@@HighVoltageKits I’ve seen that and the storm bee bigger surrons
Keyword “most people”
Fair comment.
It makes my laugh when People build Extreme powered so called E-Bikes or E- motocycles, 30kw on a 40Ah battery, Some builds have even smaller battery at 20 - 25Ah. Good Luck getting any decent range out of it. 😂
Ride around several Blocks, "almost flat" cells are stressed to the max & lifespan significantly shortened, congrats.👏 😆 Well Designed 🥳
A Suron turned into a Drag bike & I would imagine not a very good / reliable one. Might as well throw several thousand dollars into the bin. !
There is nothing anyone can do to make the battery space bigger. So the more power the less range. The Varg will complete a full dirt bike range with 80 horses. Or you turn it down and ride trails all day.
Exactly, battery space is the limiting factor, so why build it ? Ofcourse it's for the views, but the ability to turn down power levels makes it a little more practical in the real world.
My surron is already at Stark Varg money.
But, that was done over 3 years so not $20k up front.
Also, I have ordered a Stark. Years ago. Dealer says no eta and def not this year still
If you order a start today you're easily a year off getting it.
So no, not an immediate solution for most people.
And a KX instead? Hello 😂😂😂
Yeah. Its a rabbit hole to fall into. The Varg is listed at 13k. Its a shame its such a wait. I like my Sur Ron. Its been a huge fun project to do a motor swap. I have tried all sorts of stuff with it. I just think its not a 30kw bike and throwing money to get it there does not make sense.
@@HighVoltageKits again you are not understanding
30kw is not what I would run all the time with that set up. I'd be running 20kw as I do now, but with ZERO overheating
Thats the point of this motor, not necessarily the peak power (though thats a super fun party trick too)
At the end of the day if you like your bike that's great. My point is if you have $15k to spend. Don't buy a Sur Ron. Get a Varg. Even if you only run it around at a quarter the power it will ride better, last longer and go further.
@@HighVoltageKits yes, ypur point is to buy a bike thats currently unavailable..
Well done.
Like I said, I order a Varg when they were announced. Still waiting and dealer suggests at least another 6 months, thats almost a 3yr wait...
So... there's that.
Again, you could just be humble and admit this was not your finest example of being an industry expert / commentator.
But hey, sure, telling people to order a bike they wont see for a few years is super helpful 🤦♂️
@@simoncase6312not too mention the stark varg isnt even the same class of bike. People by surrons for completely different reasons. Imagine trying to get away with riding a stark varg on the bike trail..
You points are valid and it makes no sense to full kit up a Sur Ron like that. But I suspect the main reason why there are so many aftermarket parts is because the Sur Ron probably has the most sales of any electric motorbike, and is a very popular beginner bike. I.e. there are many people looking to upgrade the bike they already own instead of buying another one. And as we (and companies) all know very well, it becomes much easier to forget the price when you get parts one after another spread out over time.
I need to buy the 72v 750c diisplay i bought the asi from you and need the display badly
You are in contact with Greg already I thought?
You are right. It's a rabbit hole. My pount was more if the end goal is a full dirt bike its not worth it. For $1000 you can get a really nice boost and its still a Sur Ron. The company that emailed me sells bikes for $15,000 complete. At that point tho it's not really a Sur Ron anymore.
What's been worse than Surron are Retail "Premium" Ebikes who are over 10k $ delivering 250Watt-700Watt power.
None of my DIY Bikes cost over 2000$.
For 15k you better buy a Motorcycle.
Yeah. The Trek and Specialized stuff with low power motors for that money. Crazy. The best value will always be what you can build yourself.
Yeah im not so sure about 35kW even being safe on such a small frame
Wow i didn't know that people could do those kinds of tricks with ebikes - I want to try it but I would probably die in the process
Its because the Varg is an equivalent of a powerful gas bike. Look up no handed superman jump!
i could easily make a 35kw surron for like half the price of a stark but ok
Calling bullshit there Allan. But if you want to detail the components you would use as well as the prices I am very open to being wrong.
basic surron in australia starts at $6,500 no idea where all these kids are getting the money from but they're getting absolutely pumped with the upgrade market, an upgraded 72v battery is close to the price of the bike itself
I have no idea either. Maybe rich parents?
Everyone I know in aus with one is between 30-60yrs old?
@@zachfpv4493 nah never seen anyone here with a surron over about the age of 19, most look around 16yo's .... people 30-60yo mostly ride MTBs that i've seen, with the odd custom/home retofit setup an no real standouts, people still talk to me with my 2015 built rig over the people with store bought bikes, but my old OG bike hasn't changed alot an parts were few an far between when i built it so it's a bit of an eyesore but i love it
as someone who has been a bike mechanic for over 20 years, the biggest thing it scares me about these even stock before you modify them is there using bicycle componentry there was never design for a bike that heavy and that fast the brakes were never built to hold something even have to wait and the suspension was built for something maybe 50 to 60 pounds at best. I think someone needs to develop a proper braking system for these or we’re going to start seeing a lot of people be extremely injured by failing componentry. Not to mention you better be pretty good at working on these things, because most bicycle shops won’t touch them.
Most people also switch out the brakes to something higher end along with the disc's which I didn't even put on the cost list. I'm replacing the front end with ktm85 forks and brakes. We will see how that goes. It's being taken too far with these 30kw numbers. The stress on the frames must be unbelievable.
Thanks to both of you for pointing this out, I'm singing the same things and I'm thinking... just because you can doesn't mean you should
Mate...
The $3,500 surron you show is a surron S (youth) and not an X at all..
The ebmx motor is capable of running 35kw MAX, but you can run 20kw for example, at full throttle for way WAY longer than with the stock motor.
It's more about rated power than MAX power
Please try and learn a little at least before you teach..
I pulled an image to use in the video. Is that really the only thing you can bring up and find fault with. The X is even more right? Like $4500... What's your point? I am comparing the sense of spending over 15,000USD to mod a bike that is not meant to run that kind of power. That will still have bicycle components (Fox 40's) vs a prebuilt bike that was built to do the kinds of riding that the modified Sur Ron will still not be capable of. You will always be limited in range due to the battery space. Then you realise that the motor on the Varg can dish out 80 horses of power. Thats 60kw!!! This has nothing to do with the stock motor.
@@HighVoltageKits i think ypu meant:
"Oh sorry, yes i used the wrong image AND price (so wrong product entirely)"
The rest of your answer is word salad.
Enjoy
The point is with your model and price point it makes even less sense to do the mod. Also as others have pointed out, the bike is not built even for 20 kw. You're shortening the life span of all your components and spending a lot of money to do so. But hey its your money, enjoy it while it lasts.@@simoncase6312
Yeah. See the problem is. You admitted dumping 20k into a Sur Ron. Therefore you mentally cannot bring yourself to accept that it might not have been the best investment. So you pick on a small mistake I made with an image like it invalidates my point. It's not a word salad it's you lacking reading comprehension lol.
@@HighVoltageKits exactly lol