Haha, yep, when first learning about it my head canon told me that is where they sent all male channelers before a red ajah was an organized entity. These days I now believe it was a forgotten place after the breaking, and like you said they just went full Mad Max. Male channelers are in "control", but when one of really strong ones starts going truly mad and threatens another breaking, they all team up to put him down like a rabid wolf.
I used to play in a wheel of time DND campagin. I once did an adventure where the party went to the land of the madmen. THe premise was that Arthur Hawking also sent an army to the south in addition to seanchen. However as the continent was covered with insane channelers they never got further than the one settlement behind huge walls. Sammeal, being reborn in a new body took over the city and was making an effort trying to capture the insane channelers to create another army for the last battle. The party came in, made some alliences and defeated Sammeal reborn. Making sure the army never arrived at the last battle (just as in the books ^^)
The Westlands, the Aiel Waste and Shara are going to be dealing with the aftereffects of the Last Battle for a long while, I imagine. The Empire of Seanchan will also undergo some instability, but not nearly on the scale of the 'main' continent of the story. If anyone is going to make a play for the southern continent, I suspect the Seanchan will be first on the scene. They're the ones with the most ships, after all. With the Bore sealed and saidin cleansed, the madness of saidin will no longer be a factor after the currently-alive male channelers in the Land of Madmen die off. No doubt some of them gained the spark of channeling shortly before or just after the cleansing of saidin, so that generation will not be subject to the madness. This generation might in due time subdue and/or kill the male channelers currently suffering from saidin sickness, if they recognize it as such (and the ones who touched saidin before the cleansing should realize what they're dealing with). After this time of adjustment, the societies of the continent will have an opportunity to stabilize, but 3500 years of upheaval won't be healed overnight. One thing is almost certain, the people of the Land of Madmen probably have the strongest channeling bloodlines on the planet. That is, if the Aes Sedai theory is correct, and the gentling of male channelers over the millennia has led to a lessening in the overall channeling ability in humans in the Westlands (and presumably Seanchan, the Aiel Waste, and Shara). Because of this, if a stable society ever does develop in the Land of Madmen, and that society ever does have imperial impulses, then the northern continents are likely to have another huge war in their future. This of course could be centuries, if not millennia, after the Last Battle. This conflict could well be an all-out global war, and could even be the epochal struggle that ends the Fourth Age and begets the Fifth Age.
Great response. I was thinking that perhaps the Aes Sedai might try to Travel/Skim over to the Land of Madness, since they must know about it due to the Sea Folk channelers in their ranks. That being said, I imagine if they do pop over within a few decades of the conclusion of the story, they run the risk of passing on the secret of Traveling to the people of the Land of Madness. As you mentioned, the channelers in the LoM are probably stronger, so they might be able to overwhelm the Aes Sedai that visit, and may not even entertain talks of peace if they live in a society based on strength, as is likely in such a situation. So, if they capture the Aes Sedai and learn the secret of Traveling, then there would be a danger of them suddenly popping up in Randland and starting a new conflict.
@@HJRO I think it's less likely that the Aes Sedai will try to Travel to the southern continent, especially as long as they are led by Cadsuane as Amyrlin. The Black Tower, on the other hand, is more likely to poke the hornet's nest. But more likely still is the Seanchan using damane to try to scope out the situation. After all, they already have invaded one continent in hopes of conquest, and I see no reason they would leave the southern continent alone. If any damane know how to Travel or Skim, then it's all but guaranteed that they'll try to conquer the Land of Madmen via reconnaissance using damane.
A note on the channeling strength based on breeding. In Shara the male channelers *are* allowed to live for a while before being executed. They are used as breeding stock with the female channelers of the Ayyad society of channelers. At 16, they put hoods on them and take them to breed with any female channelers who wish to bear children. At 21 or the first sign of channeling, they put a hood on them as if to go breed, but instead execute them. They are treated as little better than animals and their bloodlines are traced like horse stock as well. For this reason, if the Aes Sedai are correct that channeling has a non-random hereditary trait aspect to it, it's likely that the Sharan channelers are actually stronger than the channelers from the Land of the Madmen. The Sharan's actively breed for channeling ability whereas in the Land of the Madmen channelers would have non-channeling parentage and random pairing instead of selective breeding.
@@DAEDALUSesq well, we know next to nothing about the Land of Madmen and what passes for society there. We can't assume that the channelers are not breeding as effectively as they did in Shara. And Shara is currently without the vast majority of its channelers, since all of the ones that Demandred brought with him were killed.
Rands madness was largely expressed as the same symptoms of stress and emotional instability that comes from PTSD, repressed emotions, misunderstood effects of long term stress badly managed, and the reality of his past life as Lews Therin bleeding through. His madness wasn’t really insanity. In this new idea someone posted of Rand helping mad men, I could see him and nyneave bringing a deeper understanding to the conditions, effects and treatments of many of them. This could be a really cool exploration of the types and effects of corruption on the human spirit and psyche. There are so many forms of madness out there. Thought provoking for sure.
I wish there were more books of the wheel of times... Maybe exploring the land of madmen or mat in the seanchan continent helping tuon claim her throne back! Or even the aiel conquering the shara! Dunno I kinda miss the wheel of time
As much as I love all the worldbuilding in WoT, that is one thing that always made me sad, we never got to explore a lot of the lands outside the Westlands, specifically this place. Wonder if Jordan ever intended to do that? Would be a cool fanfic...
@@kingarthur627 While I love the Amazon series (definitely not a bookcloak), I think someone like HBO would have to take this one on. I imagine the Land of Madmen as being a male based channeling culture of extreme violence where might is right and the only thing that prevented another breaking was team work between the female and male channelers when a male would become too mad and powerful, think Mad Max meets red ajah. The concept would be too chauvinistic for Amazon even though every other channeling organization on the globe was feminist. Though they did do a great job with Lan and Logain so there may be hope for them.
I would assume that the first step towards healing would be when Rand cleansed Saidin at the end of book nine. Granted, those already insane would continue to be insane with no healer present to cure them. But no new channelers would go insane. I would assume that the continent, while remaining in clan faction form, would begin to build some form of society. Even if it was technologically centuries behind the Westlands, Seanchan, or even the Aiel.
One mistake some people are making is that the cleansing of Saidin healed the madness, it didn’t. It just meant that Male Channelers who hadn’t yet gone mad and those who began Channeling after the Cleansing didn’t go mad, those who were already mad were still mad afterwards, its also why Nynaeve’s discovery of how to heal their Madness is as important as anything she ever done.
for the Land of Madmen, i think it'd stabalize in 1 to 2 centuries once those men who can channel that are currupted by the Taint die off. however that is if no one goes down there for an adventure.
I had hoped for a spinoff series involving the Two Towers going to Oz and helping them to heal and build. I didn't like the idea of constant volcanoes, as such activity would affect the climate of the whole world.... plus it would assume that modern men of a small population of a dystopian continent would have the same power to shake the earth's crust as an entire planet of powerful/trained men.
Theory: Rand goes over in his new form, to try and heal the madness of the male channelers. In that time he brings the people together to become a thriving place decades later
U say theory.... I say this could be new stories, or a great show.Rand dealing with a bunch or rouge channelers.... But only realy would work if the taint sumhow still exists at least in some small way.
@@kentonfugate8370 Madness would still be in place without the taint. Cleansing the taint only ended the influence of the Dark One's touch from being the direct cause. Those who had already gone mad, would still be. Keep in mind that we saw quite a few insane members of Taim's dreadlords well after the cleansing. Those who were on the verge of going mad may still have succumbed. I do not recall anyone in the books having learned how to cure madness, or at least this kind of madness. But perhaps Rand, having fought his own battles with nearly going mad and possibly even crossing that line just slightly, could help. I could see him wanting to help, if he knew of the situation at all.
@@Unlitedsoul nynaeve has some small success in the later books. Its actually quite a large plot point as its what gives context to the veins of gold chapter.
What happened to the male Aiel channelers and info on the Land of Mad Men were two of the things I was super curious about. We got answers about one, but not the other . I imagine, with Saidin being cleansed, things will gradually become more stable as the mad channelers die out.
With how fractured and underpopulated the Land of the Madmen is, it will be an easy and quick conquest for the Seanchan, and will become a new province that is most likely very mineral and resource rich as it hasn't been exploited beyond basic farming and the like for the past 3.5k years.
It would make sense that the isle would have a smaller population of nomadic tribes, (being able to pick up and leave an area quickly would be important). The tribes would probably be guided and protected by female channelers, who probably would have forgotten how to subdue male channelers, hence why there would be male channelers running wild. The main population would probably be inland while the male channelers would make there way to the shore, hence why it dangerous for the sea folk to go near. But these are just theories.
After Cleansing of Saidin in Book 9 of the Wheel of Time series, the Madmen of the Land would have settled and slowly, through Sea Folk, would have begun integrating themselves with the Randland Major.... Becoming Explorers to New Lands themselves.
In reference to Brad James' comment about a Sanderson spin off... Never going to happen, but it sure would be awesome! And just imagine in this hypothetical if he managed to incorporate it into the Cosmere. That would, in a way, incorporate our world by inference!
Only just finished all the books so been avoiding all these channels (pun not intended) up until now. You'll be my first WoT sub :) I can imagine Land of Madmen eventually stabilising now that the taint has been removed. Mad channelers will die out or be defeated/subdued by new generation of untainted channelers. Can also imagine the local wildlife being corrupted and modified. Maybe the people all ride around on kangaroos 🙂 On side note. Having only read the 14 main books, really enjoyed your vids on the Age of Legends. Until I read the comments, I was thinking "how did I miss all this?". Thanks for the vids 🙂👍
I imagine that by the time The Empress reclaims Seanchanand restores order, the land of the madmen will have settled out of their madness at least a little. That would be an interesting story in itself.. probably with its own Ta'veren.
I probably missed this in the video, and I don’t remember reading this in the series, but where is this information from? It’s funny you ask about what happens after the conclusion of the series because I was wondering during your video. I would think that-assuming there was some sort of continuation of the population-then there would be a renaissance of sorts eventually
Most of the information comes from a companion book title The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time and yes he does say that towards the end of the video.
Can someone explain the so-called "SLOG"? I'm currently on my first read and I'm about half-way through Winter's Heart, which is apparently apart of the SLOG, and I find it not boring or slow at all.
It really depends on what you want from books imo. I never really found them hard to read either, but other readers need more action, faster resolutions, etc. Really depends on how tolerant you are with the writer's style I think. Despite not minding it I still think there are some choices made that kind of stretch the story out a bit, so I get it, I just didn't mind it :p
The effect of The Slog was exaggerated by having to wait 2-3 years between books only then to suffer through emo-Perrin and Salidar politics. I found it much easier on a reread where you could just pick up the next book immediately. Plus you know Knife of Dreams is waiting for you and everything kicks into high gear after that until Tarmon Gaidon.
I always assumed tLoMM was going to have a point in the story when the Big White Book came out but the story evolved. Someone at JordanCon last year ( I think it was Terez) talked about things she found when perusing RJ's notes. One of them was that part of his original plan had Rand getting shipwrecked alone at some point. Maybe here?
Given the complete upheaval throughout the other two continents, it would be quite a while before anyone focuses on exploration. Shara lost both their leaders and Demandred, so are mired in massive internal strife. Seanchan will take some time to pacify and bring back under the Empress' control, followed by the issues inherent in running a two-continent empire. That surprisingly leaves the Aiel and the Westlands in the best shape for the time being. Unfortunately, they don't know how to make ships that are meant to last the trip. Only the Sea Folk and Seanchan have that knowledge. In fact, the Westlands and Aiel are more likely to expand to the newly-available land that used to be in the Blight. Rugged land is preferable to a 5000 mile ocean journey. Likely a century or so after the resealing of the Bore, the Seanchan would send their first forays to explore this unknown continent. Probably by sending raken to scout. Maybe the natives will be more welcoming of people coming by air rather than by sea. Either way, the natives would have had a century to develop without the men going mad, allowing for the beginnings of civilisation to emerge such as city-states along the northern coast due to the warmer climate there. The low population across the continent would make it easier for the Seanchan to settle, but once the natives find the settlement, holding it would take battles worse than Dumai's Wells.
Prosperity and peace. Sai'din is cleansed, meaning the madmen are no longer mad. So within a couple of generations, things will begin to right themselves.
Brad James Not quite, any Male Channelers that were already mad before the cleansing are still mad post cleansing, that is why Nynaeve’s discovery of how to heal that madness is so important.
@@Harldin True. Their madness will get worse at least. One thing is that sane male channelers (and now the women channellers that no longer have to fight for their lives). May become curious about the world beyond. I guess that Sea Folk vessels were noticed by some of the continent's inhabitants.
What was the history of the East Lands? I would love to see a speculation video filling in the gap from the Age of Legends when they would have been an integral part of the global society, to how they handled the breaking and got their mad channelers under control and closed off contact with the West.
I forgot about that place. Yeah, there will not be any more mad channelers once Rand clensed the tain on Saidin. Once the last one dies anyway. I guess not even Demandred though of getting channelers from there eh? ;-) I wonder if someone from the "main" land will think of visiting there someday. Maybe the sea folk will visit once more. Now that Travelling has been rediscovered getting there will be easy, do someone need to skim there first though? No wait, they need to know the place of origin well, not the destination, sorry. :-P That will be quite far into the future I suppose, the Last Battle took a toll on everyone. Re-settling Malkier, rebuilding Caemlyn, talking Tuon into freeing all the damane... I wonder which one of those three will be more difficult... ;-D Thnaks for the reminder Nae'blis. You are indeed the top fors... chosen. :-P
The thing is, the Sea Folk only ever saw the shore. Given the size of The Land of Madmen, that is a pretty small sample off of which to base any conclusions. Even if all the humans have reverted to stone age tribes... for all we know, there could be a thriving civilization of ogier based in their steddings. Not only protected from the OP, but said protection allowing them to remain far more advanced then the humans. Which when coupled with their size and strength, would allow them to spread out, and turn the Land of Madmen in the the one place on WoT earth where ogier are the dominate race. Rather then the humans.
Rand took Avienda to a cold place to make whoopy. Could it possibly have been there and not the blight? If so maybe it's not so full of madmen as implied.
Who would love for Brandon Sanderson to write a spin-off series of books? The Dragon's Peace doesn't apply there - or Shara and the Blight - after all...
Interesting. How would he and Min adapt to Seanchan life? How will Seanchan cope now that all their highest would have been addressed by Artur Hawkwing (who probably knows now that his war on the Aes Sedai and sending his children on exhibitions were all plans of Ishamael - their culture and empire is based on a lie). Then there is the fact that Moghedien is now a Damane. For a character like Moghedien, this could be the perfect place to thrive and sew some seeds of chaos.
I would also like to see Logain pull the Black Tower in a new direction. As well as something that shows Flinn and Nynaeve developing a whole world of healing.
Haven't read the companions so now I have more questions. How did these guys survive? Are they breeding since the breaking of the world and still end up being madmen?
I think that now that the male channelers are no longer going insane, it will begin to slow down and heal, obviously those already broken, well will simply slowly die off. It will take centuries, but, eventually, it will heal. I agree the Seanchan are the most likely to force that, but I think they'll need to deal with their homeland first.
If the people of the LoM are actually anything like Australians they'll eventually settle down and be happy enough with a cold beer and some cricket or footy to watch and be all like "ahh we invade the world later, the new season of masterchef is just starting and I don't wanna miss that shit"
Big news confirmed today 24/25 june, the Al’Vere family are actually descended from refugees from the Land of the Madmen with the news that Bran Al’vere is to be played by Michael Tuahine who like Madeleine is Australian.🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
The Seanchan probably have a shattered empire at this point with such a large part of their armed forces in the East and the head of their government obliterated by a forsaken. If they did get things under control It would probably be faster for them to travel west by sea to reach the Land of Madmen, by the map in the video it looks to be about 2-3K miles shorter distance if they head West rather than East
I think there is nothing about strong male/female channeler in this land. It seems to me only Sea Folk leaves their male channelers to the Land of Madmen. As you all know Sea Folk was secretive nation. They didn't tell this reality in the books. Imagine if there is really strong channeler culture why not dark One and forsaken didn't not take this opportunity? They already have enormous compulsion skills and domination bands etc which subjugate this people easily to Dark one. I think strong channeler culture is impossible here. Especially in 3rd Age, maybe it was happened in after breaking the world short time.
If the volcanoes kept erupting due to male channelers going crazy with the Taint, such eruptions should stop as the Taint has been clensed (or at least after those channelers who were already mad die)
A generation or two of male channelers not going invariably mad, and civilisation could begin to stabilise, trade routes could form, and towns could start to become cities, etc. However, before all that, sea folk might catch on to the stability, set up ports, other lands would hear or it, colonies would be established, locals probably displaced, and so on. The culture of the locals would probably be a deep distrust of outsiders and anyone who can channel, unless there was a mass influx of channellers in the colonists from other lands, and even then, it'd take generations of benevalent channeling peoples in positions of power to shift that perception.
This is on a rewatch but just thought of this. After saiden is cleansed the land of madmen would be the best source of new channelers of both sexes. They never hunted the men there so channeling is still theoretically just as common as it was in the age of legends since it was never "bred" out of the humans there as it was basically everywhere else
The Land of Madmen would be a power grab, a place where the most powerful male channelers still exist so there will definitely be an "arms" race between Shara / Seanchan and The Two Towers / Sea Folk (the Aiel society will crumble for the most part and will split between Shara or The Two Towers after the truth of their origins is eventually widely known). A campaign on the Land of Madmen to gain factions and start proxy wars to skirt the rules of the peace treaty will ensue and make for a very good story if someone can give the inhabitants of the LoM a great deal of depth, kind of like how shows like Britannia and movies like Dances with Wolves give depth to powerful native populations. Give them a powerful shaman culture based on extreme violence.
Late to this party by years but with Saidin clean, they will probably be less mad. I know duh statement. This could be a jumping off point for the story to continue past the 4th age.
Now that Rand has cleansed Saidin of the taint all male channellers from here on out would be sane. It stands to reason that free of it's awful influence the land would eventually progress to some to degree of normalcy.
What if it’s a colossal misdirection and the inhabitants of the LoM are perfectly sane and are the last vestige of civilization from before the Breaking of the World. To the Sea Folk perhaps that would be insanity enough.
well after rand and nyeave cured the taint in 2 or 3 generations it would become a power in the world. unlike the rest the didn't cull the male power. so you would have a land of channelers.
So Australia really did become the Land of Mad Max. Well played RJ
Exactly what I was thinking. You are awesome.
I was going to say those poor Aussie’s always get stick lol
Twenty years ago or so, that's how it was explained to me
Haha, yep, when first learning about it my head canon told me that is where they sent all male channelers before a red ajah was an organized entity. These days I now believe it was a forgotten place after the breaking, and like you said they just went full Mad Max. Male channelers are in "control", but when one of really strong ones starts going truly mad and threatens another breaking, they all team up to put him down like a rabid wolf.
Straya!!
I used to play in a wheel of time DND campagin. I once did an adventure where the party went to the land of the madmen. THe premise was that Arthur Hawking also sent an army to the south in addition to seanchen. However as the continent was covered with insane channelers they never got further than the one settlement behind huge walls.
Sammeal, being reborn in a new body took over the city and was making an effort trying to capture the insane channelers to create another army for the last battle.
The party came in, made some alliences and defeated Sammeal reborn. Making sure the army never arrived at the last battle (just as in the books ^^)
The Westlands, the Aiel Waste and Shara are going to be dealing with the aftereffects of the Last Battle for a long while, I imagine. The Empire of Seanchan will also undergo some instability, but not nearly on the scale of the 'main' continent of the story. If anyone is going to make a play for the southern continent, I suspect the Seanchan will be first on the scene. They're the ones with the most ships, after all.
With the Bore sealed and saidin cleansed, the madness of saidin will no longer be a factor after the currently-alive male channelers in the Land of Madmen die off. No doubt some of them gained the spark of channeling shortly before or just after the cleansing of saidin, so that generation will not be subject to the madness. This generation might in due time subdue and/or kill the male channelers currently suffering from saidin sickness, if they recognize it as such (and the ones who touched saidin before the cleansing should realize what they're dealing with). After this time of adjustment, the societies of the continent will have an opportunity to stabilize, but 3500 years of upheaval won't be healed overnight.
One thing is almost certain, the people of the Land of Madmen probably have the strongest channeling bloodlines on the planet. That is, if the Aes Sedai theory is correct, and the gentling of male channelers over the millennia has led to a lessening in the overall channeling ability in humans in the Westlands (and presumably Seanchan, the Aiel Waste, and Shara). Because of this, if a stable society ever does develop in the Land of Madmen, and that society ever does have imperial impulses, then the northern continents are likely to have another huge war in their future. This of course could be centuries, if not millennia, after the Last Battle. This conflict could well be an all-out global war, and could even be the epochal struggle that ends the Fourth Age and begets the Fifth Age.
This is what i came to the comments to share. Well said and Go Blue
Great response. I was thinking that perhaps the Aes Sedai might try to Travel/Skim over to the Land of Madness, since they must know about it due to the Sea Folk channelers in their ranks. That being said, I imagine if they do pop over within a few decades of the conclusion of the story, they run the risk of passing on the secret of Traveling to the people of the Land of Madness. As you mentioned, the channelers in the LoM are probably stronger, so they might be able to overwhelm the Aes Sedai that visit, and may not even entertain talks of peace if they live in a society based on strength, as is likely in such a situation. So, if they capture the Aes Sedai and learn the secret of Traveling, then there would be a danger of them suddenly popping up in Randland and starting a new conflict.
@@HJRO I think it's less likely that the Aes Sedai will try to Travel to the southern continent, especially as long as they are led by Cadsuane as Amyrlin. The Black Tower, on the other hand, is more likely to poke the hornet's nest. But more likely still is the Seanchan using damane to try to scope out the situation. After all, they already have invaded one continent in hopes of conquest, and I see no reason they would leave the southern continent alone. If any damane know how to Travel or Skim, then it's all but guaranteed that they'll try to conquer the Land of Madmen via reconnaissance using damane.
A note on the channeling strength based on breeding. In Shara the male channelers *are* allowed to live for a while before being executed. They are used as breeding stock with the female channelers of the Ayyad society of channelers. At 16, they put hoods on them and take them to breed with any female channelers who wish to bear children. At 21 or the first sign of channeling, they put a hood on them as if to go breed, but instead execute them. They are treated as little better than animals and their bloodlines are traced like horse stock as well.
For this reason, if the Aes Sedai are correct that channeling has a non-random hereditary trait aspect to it, it's likely that the Sharan channelers are actually stronger than the channelers from the Land of the Madmen. The Sharan's actively breed for channeling ability whereas in the Land of the Madmen channelers would have non-channeling parentage and random pairing instead of selective breeding.
@@DAEDALUSesq well, we know next to nothing about the Land of Madmen and what passes for society there. We can't assume that the channelers are not breeding as effectively as they did in Shara. And Shara is currently without the vast majority of its channelers, since all of the ones that Demandred brought with him were killed.
Valan Luca as Joe Exotic. Yesssssss
Rands madness was largely expressed as the same symptoms of stress and emotional instability that comes from PTSD, repressed emotions, misunderstood effects of long term stress badly managed, and the reality of his past life as Lews Therin bleeding through. His madness wasn’t really insanity.
In this new idea someone posted of Rand helping mad men, I could see him and nyneave bringing a deeper understanding to the conditions, effects and treatments of many of them. This could be a really cool exploration of the types and effects of corruption on the human spirit and psyche. There are so many forms of madness out there.
Thought provoking for sure.
lj
It would be very hard for Rand to actually help other people, as strictly speaking, to everyone but a very few in the world he is dead.
Ireland did not use Australia as a penal colony. We were sent there by the English colonisers. This is actually grossly offensive.
What if some utterly mad & dashing Land of Madmen-dweller arrives in the Wetlands to show them what a real knife is?
Violet Bliss 🤣 That’s not a 🔪. This is a 🔪.
I see you've played knifey spoony before.
Maybe they have Dingo Brothers instead of Wolf Brothers there. That eat babies or something.
Dyshan the defilid arrived in the port of tear
@@SeebsL a talking 3 legs 🤪
I'll be honest, in my headcanon (and thus ideal casting choice), Valan Luca is Bruce Campbell.
That's exactly what I've been saying online for months and thinking for years (in fact, since he was first introduced)!
While we rarely disagree I have to say the Audible referral was the best thing ever for my work schedule. Thanks
Awesome content, thanks for posting it for us
I wish there were more books of the wheel of times... Maybe exploring the land of madmen or mat in the seanchan continent helping tuon claim her throne back! Or even the aiel conquering the shara! Dunno I kinda miss the wheel of time
As much as I love all the worldbuilding in WoT, that is one thing that always made me sad, we never got to explore a lot of the lands outside the Westlands, specifically this place. Wonder if Jordan ever intended to do that? Would be a cool fanfic...
I believe that Brandon Sanderson said that RJ had extensive notes and ideas for “spin-off” novels. Things about the Atha’an Miere, etc
@@kingarthur627 While I love the Amazon series (definitely not a bookcloak), I think someone like HBO would have to take this one on. I imagine the Land of Madmen as being a male based channeling culture of extreme violence where might is right and the only thing that prevented another breaking was team work between the female and male channelers when a male would become too mad and powerful, think Mad Max meets red ajah. The concept would be too chauvinistic for Amazon even though every other channeling organization on the globe was feminist. Though they did do a great job with Lan and Logain so there may be hope for them.
@@anydaynow01would be a fun parallel to the largely matriarchal societies in the rest of the world
I would assume that the first step towards healing would be when Rand cleansed Saidin at the end of book nine.
Granted, those already insane would continue to be insane with no healer present to cure them. But no new channelers would go insane.
I would assume that the continent, while remaining in clan faction form, would begin to build some form of society. Even if it was technologically centuries behind the Westlands, Seanchan, or even the Aiel.
Maybe there is a Stedding there. There may be Ogier around.
Thank you Nae'Blis!
One mistake some people are making is that the cleansing of Saidin healed the madness, it didn’t. It just meant that Male Channelers who hadn’t yet gone mad and those who began Channeling after the Cleansing didn’t go mad, those who were already mad were still mad afterwards, its also why Nynaeve’s discovery of how to heal their Madness is as important as anything she ever done.
Interesting topic, thank you. I've understood some of this intuitively but you put it into words very well.
for the Land of Madmen, i think it'd stabalize in 1 to 2 centuries once those men who can channel that are currupted by the Taint die off. however that is if no one goes down there for an adventure.
I had hoped for a spinoff series involving the Two Towers going to Oz and helping them to heal and build.
I didn't like the idea of constant volcanoes, as such activity would affect the climate of the whole world.... plus it would assume that modern men of a small population of a dystopian continent would have the same power to shake the earth's crust as an entire planet of powerful/trained men.
Theory: Rand goes over in his new form, to try and heal the madness of the male channelers. In that time he brings the people together to become a thriving place decades later
U say theory.... I say this could be new stories, or a great show.Rand dealing with a bunch or rouge channelers.... But only realy would work if the taint sumhow still exists at least in some small way.
@@kentonfugate8370 thanks, I honestly don't see rand not doing what he can to help a land most in turmoil
@@kentonfugate8370 Madness would still be in place without the taint. Cleansing the taint only ended the influence of the Dark One's touch from being the direct cause. Those who had already gone mad, would still be. Keep in mind that we saw quite a few insane members of Taim's dreadlords well after the cleansing. Those who were on the verge of going mad may still have succumbed. I do not recall anyone in the books having learned how to cure madness, or at least this kind of madness. But perhaps Rand, having fought his own battles with nearly going mad and possibly even crossing that line just slightly, could help. I could see him wanting to help, if he knew of the situation at all.
@@Unlitedsoul nynaeve has some small success in the later books. Its actually quite a large plot point as its what gives context to the veins of gold chapter.
@@kentonfugate8370 the ones already insane would stay insane unless healed.
Thanks for the video - never heard of this place before and read several times
Went back to this video today. Man... You've evolved :D
I hope I can make it to the Europe convention just to say Hi. I'm a bit limited though.
What happened to the male Aiel channelers and info on the Land of Mad Men were two of the things I was super curious about. We got answers about one, but not the other .
I imagine, with Saidin being cleansed, things will gradually become more stable as the mad channelers die out.
With how fractured and underpopulated the Land of the Madmen is, it will be an easy and quick conquest for the Seanchan, and will become a new province that is most likely very mineral and resource rich as it hasn't been exploited beyond basic farming and the like for the past 3.5k years.
It would make sense that the isle would have a smaller population of nomadic tribes, (being able to pick up and leave an area quickly would be important).
The tribes would probably be guided and protected by female channelers, who probably would have forgotten how to subdue male channelers, hence why there would be male channelers running wild.
The main population would probably be inland while the male channelers would make there way to the shore, hence why it dangerous for the sea folk to go near.
But these are just theories.
This is the content I
AM👏HERE👏FOR👏
Thanks...That white board made me spit my drink all over my phone
I really gotta reactivate my Netflix and see what the hype is about.
After Cleansing of Saidin in Book 9 of the Wheel of Time series, the Madmen of the Land would have settled and slowly, through Sea Folk, would have begun integrating themselves with the Randland Major.... Becoming Explorers to New Lands themselves.
In reference to Brad James' comment about a Sanderson spin off... Never going to happen, but it sure would be awesome! And just imagine in this hypothetical if he managed to incorporate it into the Cosmere. That would, in a way, incorporate our world by inference!
Thank you
Love these tidbits!
Only just finished all the books so been avoiding all these channels (pun not intended) up until now. You'll be my first WoT sub :)
I can imagine Land of Madmen eventually stabilising now that the taint has been removed. Mad channelers will die out or be defeated/subdued by new generation of untainted channelers.
Can also imagine the local wildlife being corrupted and modified. Maybe the people all ride around on kangaroos 🙂
On side note. Having only read the 14 main books, really enjoyed your vids on the Age of Legends. Until I read the comments, I was thinking "how did I miss all this?".
Thanks for the vids 🙂👍
Time for a re-read lol
I imagine that by the time The Empress reclaims Seanchanand restores order, the land of the madmen will have settled out of their madness at least a little. That would be an interesting story in itself.. probably with its own Ta'veren.
Dude, Joe Exotic is a real world Valon Luca
I probably missed this in the video, and I don’t remember reading this in the series, but where is this information from? It’s funny you ask about what happens after the conclusion of the series because I was wondering during your video. I would think that-assuming there was some sort of continuation of the population-then there would be a renaissance of sorts eventually
Most of the information comes from a companion book title The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time and yes he does say that towards the end of the video.
Can someone explain the so-called "SLOG"? I'm currently on my first read and I'm about half-way through Winter's Heart, which is apparently apart of the SLOG, and I find it not boring or slow at all.
It usually (mostly) refers to the captured Faile plotline, which some feel to be less interesting on later rereads.
It really depends on what you want from books imo. I never really found them hard to read either, but other readers need more action, faster resolutions, etc. Really depends on how tolerant you are with the writer's style I think. Despite not minding it I still think there are some choices made that kind of stretch the story out a bit, so I get it, I just didn't mind it :p
The slog is a matter of opinion. 🤷♀️
@@irisbear9421 yep. I don't find it to be a slog, but enough people have taken to referring to it as such that it's useful to know about.
The effect of The Slog was exaggerated by having to wait 2-3 years between books only then to suffer through emo-Perrin and Salidar politics. I found it much easier on a reread where you could just pick up the next book immediately. Plus you know Knife of Dreams is waiting for you and everything kicks into high gear after that until Tarmon Gaidon.
Have you done anything on the seafolk. Like if they have a home land. Where do they build their ships and find the wood for example
I always assumed tLoMM was going to have a point in the story when the Big White Book came out but the story evolved. Someone at JordanCon last year ( I think it was Terez) talked about things she found when perusing RJ's notes. One of them was that part of his original plan had Rand getting shipwrecked alone at some point. Maybe here?
Given the complete upheaval throughout the other two continents, it would be quite a while before anyone focuses on exploration. Shara lost both their leaders and Demandred, so are mired in massive internal strife. Seanchan will take some time to pacify and bring back under the Empress' control, followed by the issues inherent in running a two-continent empire. That surprisingly leaves the Aiel and the Westlands in the best shape for the time being. Unfortunately, they don't know how to make ships that are meant to last the trip. Only the Sea Folk and Seanchan have that knowledge. In fact, the Westlands and Aiel are more likely to expand to the newly-available land that used to be in the Blight. Rugged land is preferable to a 5000 mile ocean journey.
Likely a century or so after the resealing of the Bore, the Seanchan would send their first forays to explore this unknown continent. Probably by sending raken to scout. Maybe the natives will be more welcoming of people coming by air rather than by sea. Either way, the natives would have had a century to develop without the men going mad, allowing for the beginnings of civilisation to emerge such as city-states along the northern coast due to the warmer climate there. The low population across the continent would make it easier for the Seanchan to settle, but once the natives find the settlement, holding it would take battles worse than Dumai's Wells.
Rand would most likely head to shara, ive always thought that he was meant to be bao the wyld.
Valan Luca every time the EF5 do anything: “I am never gonna financially recover from this”
Prosperity and peace. Sai'din is cleansed, meaning the madmen are no longer mad. So within a couple of generations, things will begin to right themselves.
Brad James Not quite, any Male Channelers that were already mad before the cleansing are still mad post cleansing, that is why Nynaeve’s discovery of how to heal that madness is so important.
@@Harldin True. Their madness will get worse at least. One thing is that sane male channelers (and now the women channellers that no longer have to fight for their lives). May become curious about the world beyond. I guess that Sea Folk vessels were noticed by some of the continent's inhabitants.
The land is madmen is definitely fascinating! Thanks for this😁
What was the history of the East Lands? I would love to see a speculation video filling in the gap from the Age of Legends when they would have been an integral part of the global society, to how they handled the breaking and got their mad channelers under control and closed off contact with the West.
I forgot about that place. Yeah, there will not be any more mad channelers once Rand clensed the tain on Saidin. Once the last one dies anyway. I guess not even Demandred though of getting channelers from there eh? ;-) I wonder if someone from the "main" land will think of visiting there someday. Maybe the sea folk will visit once more. Now that Travelling has been rediscovered getting there will be easy, do someone need to skim there first though? No wait, they need to know the place of origin well, not the destination, sorry. :-P
That will be quite far into the future I suppose, the Last Battle took a toll on everyone. Re-settling Malkier, rebuilding Caemlyn, talking Tuon into freeing all the damane... I wonder which one of those three will be more difficult... ;-D Thnaks for the reminder Nae'blis. You are indeed the top fors... chosen. :-P
Great topic!
The thing is, the Sea Folk only ever saw the shore. Given the size of The Land of Madmen, that is a pretty small sample off of which to base any conclusions.
Even if all the humans have reverted to stone age tribes... for all we know, there could be a thriving civilization of ogier based in their steddings. Not only protected from the OP, but said protection allowing them to remain far more advanced then the humans. Which when coupled with their size and strength, would allow them to spread out, and turn the Land of Madmen in the the one place on WoT earth where ogier are the dominate race. Rather then the humans.
The question is, what happened to them after the taint was cleansed off Saidin...
Great video
I'm just hoping the dont fudge up Demandred and Mazrim Taim's casting! They better be cuendillar strong picks
Rand took Avienda to a cold place to make whoopy. Could it possibly have been there and not the blight? If so maybe it's not so full of madmen as implied.
Nah if it's based off Australia like everyone seems to think it is, as an Aussie I can tell ya we rarely have snowy cold climates 😂
@@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218 After a reread of the book, Avienda opened the gateway and it was a Seanchan place. :)
Hunted by the seanchan for both male and female marathe damane after the last battle during the dragon's peace
It would be interesting to see the effects after Saidan was cleaned. Any new male channelers won't go mad.
Who would love for Brandon Sanderson to write a spin-off series of books? The Dragon's Peace doesn't apply there - or Shara and the Blight - after all...
Mat and Tuon spin-off !!!
Pavera and Androl chasing Dreadlords post Last Battle
Interesting. How would he and Min adapt to Seanchan life? How will Seanchan cope now that all their highest would have been addressed by Artur Hawkwing (who probably knows now that his war on the Aes Sedai and sending his children on exhibitions were all plans of Ishamael - their culture and empire is based on a lie).
Then there is the fact that Moghedien is now a Damane. For a character like Moghedien, this could be the perfect place to thrive and sew some seeds of chaos.
I would also like to see Logain pull the Black Tower in a new direction. As well as something that shows Flinn and Nynaeve developing a whole world of healing.
Just make a story in one of the Mirror Worlds, so it would not violate canon .
Haven't read the companions so now I have more questions. How did these guys survive? Are they breeding since the breaking of the world and still end up being madmen?
Wait so the land of madmen is as big as the map normally used? Wow I thought the normal one was much bigger
I was always disappointed that TLoMM was never involved in the series. There could have been some Grade-A badasses on that continent.
I’m pretty sure this is where the show runners came from.
I think that now that the male channelers are no longer going insane, it will begin to slow down and heal, obviously those already broken, well will simply slowly die off. It will take centuries, but, eventually, it will heal. I agree the Seanchan are the most likely to force that, but I think they'll need to deal with their homeland first.
I thought Perrin ended up there during his fight with Slayer? Or was it in the wolf-dream only?
Rand's next rebirth (1000 years in the future) will be in the Land of Madmen. Discuss?
I think the Jain Farstrider of the 4th Age will visit the Land of the Madmen and publish a book like the Travels of Jain Farstrider.
The Land of Madmen = Australia
gizmoochi We🇦🇺🤪 are not mad, we are normal its the rest of the world that is mad
@@Harldin Agree....Americans and their crazy notions.
If the people of the LoM are actually anything like Australians they'll eventually settle down and be happy enough with a cold beer and some cricket or footy to watch and be all like "ahh we invade the world later, the new season of masterchef is just starting and I don't wanna miss that shit"
I didn't realise the Land of Madmen was based on Australia! Thanks for the representation Jordan, even if we're all mad ;)
Sea we ain’t mad, we’re sane its the rest of the world that is mad🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Big news confirmed today 24/25 june, the Al’Vere family are actually descended from refugees from the Land of the Madmen with the news that Bran Al’vere is to be played by Michael Tuahine who like Madeleine is Australian.🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
the land of the madmen was more a nod to the land mad max
Australia?
The Seanchan probably have a shattered empire at this point with such a large part of their armed forces in the East and the head of their government obliterated by a forsaken. If they did get things under control It would probably be faster for them to travel west by sea to reach the Land of Madmen, by the map in the video it looks to be about 2-3K miles shorter distance if they head West rather than East
I think there is nothing about strong male/female channeler in this land. It seems to me only Sea Folk leaves their male channelers to the Land of Madmen. As you all know Sea Folk was secretive nation. They didn't tell this reality in the books.
Imagine if there is really strong channeler culture why not dark One and forsaken didn't not take this opportunity? They already have enormous compulsion skills and domination bands etc which subjugate this people easily to Dark one. I think strong channeler culture is impossible here. Especially in 3rd Age, maybe it was happened in after breaking the world short time.
Perrin's big fight?
If the volcanoes kept erupting due to male channelers going crazy with the Taint, such eruptions should stop as the Taint has been clensed (or at least after those channelers who were already mad die)
A generation or two of male channelers not going invariably mad, and civilisation could begin to stabilise, trade routes could form, and towns could start to become cities, etc. However, before all that, sea folk might catch on to the stability, set up ports, other lands would hear or it, colonies would be established, locals probably displaced, and so on.
The culture of the locals would probably be a deep distrust of outsiders and anyone who can channel, unless there was a mass influx of channellers in the colonists from other lands, and even then, it'd take generations of benevalent channeling peoples in positions of power to shift that perception.
You should preface this whole video with an explanation of where this information came from, I've never seen this map before.
Found this browsing the history tab.... lol. ok sure. =)
Naaaah for me Valan Luca will always be just like that Billy Zane character from the Kurt Russel movie "Tombstone"
I think it will civilize over the next few centuries if the Sea Folk don't do it.
Once the sweaty-toothed madmen find that Saidin is clean, they will sound their barbaric yawps over the roofs of the world.
This is on a rewatch but just thought of this.
After saiden is cleansed the land of madmen would be the best source of new channelers of both sexes.
They never hunted the men there so channeling is still theoretically just as common as it was in the age of legends since it was never "bred" out of the humans there as it was basically everywhere else
I picture a bunch of viking berserkers hopped up on mushrooms that can channel.
I have listened to book 3, because I could find the paper version, and I can't always afford to buy new books:(
So where is Africa and the Caribbean?.
The Land of Madmen would be a power grab, a place where the most powerful male channelers still exist so there will definitely be an "arms" race between Shara / Seanchan and The Two Towers / Sea Folk (the Aiel society will crumble for the most part and will split between Shara or The Two Towers after the truth of their origins is eventually widely known). A campaign on the Land of Madmen to gain factions and start proxy wars to skirt the rules of the peace treaty will ensue and make for a very good story if someone can give the inhabitants of the LoM a great deal of depth, kind of like how shows like Britannia and movies like Dances with Wolves give depth to powerful native populations. Give them a powerful shaman culture based on extreme violence.
Nice commentary on a place never seen in the actual text.
the athaan miere are the best
btw
my contry is not named on the map brother .morocco its in africa next to spain in the middel of the map
Well some people call us Aussies mad🇦🇺🤪so makes since
Late to this party by years but with Saidin clean, they will probably be less mad. I know duh statement. This could be a jumping off point for the story to continue past the 4th age.
I never knew about the land of madmen. Now can you explain California
Um...your whiteboard is hilarious
Now that Rand has cleansed Saidin of the taint all male channellers from here on out would be sane. It stands to reason that free of it's awful influence the land would eventually progress to some to degree of normalcy.
The real secret is that the land of madmen isn't actually beset by insane male channelers, it's just that everyone here is drunk. :)
So it's Ireland or New Jersey?
I think Luca is more Ladies Man or at least Channing Tatum.
So, we move Australia combined with the Ring of Fire farther south and, voila, we have the Land of Mad Men. Not a hard reach, eh mate?
not sure ireland sent convicts to auz, prisoners prob. england defo. good vid
nice white board!
The continent...
What if it’s a colossal misdirection and the inhabitants of the LoM are perfectly sane and are the last vestige of civilization from before the Breaking of the World. To the Sea Folk perhaps that would be insanity enough.
well after rand and nyeave cured the taint in 2 or 3 generations it would become a power in the world. unlike the rest the didn't cull the male power. so you would have a land of channelers.
Australia! They're all mad.
hello nae'blis :^)
Ah Australia made it
The Land of Beer.