Sealing Tile Backer Board Joints ~ Roger's Tips
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.พ. 2024
- Abacus Bathrooms Elements Board
www.abacus-bathrooms.co.uk/#!...
Aquaseal Wet Room Waterproof Tanking Membrane
amzn.to/3HXsRAz
CT1 Multi-Purpose Sealant & Adhesive
amzn.to/4bFq7VS
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Roger is on familiar ground. He loves a bit of Elements Board and knows just what to do with it.
Our message from Michael:
I have installed tile backer boards but am confused about sealing the joints. I was advised to use a tile adhesive between where the boards join and then a tanking kit with tape to seal the joints. Is this correct, or should I be using different products? Any help is greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Mike
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#bathroomdesign #wetroom #homeimprovement
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I used this stuff in my bathroom and kitchen after watching Roger’s bathroom installation vids. Amazing product, lightweight, easy to cut, rigid, and completely watertight. Not particularly expensive either tbh. Battening out behind it also allowed me to get everything perfectly square in a 150 year old house. Handy when fitting kitchen units and baths etc.
Ah!! It's me, thank you, Roger. All done, taped, tanked, job completed. Your advice has been really useful and the videos help massively.
Excellent!
Would you mind sharing a picture of the end result before tiling? Want to start my bathroom soon and this will help. Cheers
That’s exactly what I do …Polymer based polymeric adhesive between the joints . Have done for a good few years now.
Love this board, certainly helps the acoustic as well
That sealant is good, used it twice not for myself, on the recomendation of one of the store assistants. Helped to seal a distressed fibreglass roof repair gone wrong three months ago awaiting renewal (still going strong no leaks) and another, a belfast sink with a badly fitting leaking plughole outlet.
I used Jackoboard, like most manufacturers they have plenty of online advice on fitting methods, suitability of application for the various thicknesses of board etc, though sometimes it can take a while to locate.
like Roger suggested, in wet areas like the shower, glue the joints, then waterproof tape over the top fixed with brush on sealant/adhesive, you can also use the polymer adhesive/sealant over the top of the washers or on any board damage, then waterproof tape and brush on sealant adhesive, neoprene gaskets with brush on sealant/adhesive for any pentrations through the board such as shower valve/ handspray/shower head
Any penetrations for screw fixings on final fix, eg for the shower enclosure, I flooded the holes with either silicone or the polymer adhesive just before fitting.
I've been following your renovation projects and appreciate the insights you share. I recently conducted a detailed exploration into the safety and installation practices concerning foam core backer boards, specifically focusing on the critical role of wood blocking for secure grab bar installations. Our findings highlight the potential risks and structural integrity issues that can arise from omitting wood blocking, even with the most reliable materials and techniques.
Given the importance of safety and durability in renovations, I thought this information could be beneficial to your projects and audience. Incorporating wood blocking can significantly enhance the strength and safety of grab bar installations, a detail that's often overlooked.
I'd be happy to share our findings and discuss further. Keep up the great work, and thank you for sharing your knowledge with the community!
Hi Yes We are interested in your findings. Do you want to record a Zoom call with us?
I used wedi board (same thing) back in 2006 when i did a wet room with an open shower. Never had a problem despite using the shower twice a year. Seriously though, if its done properly it should last almost indefinitely. I used the neoprene tape on the joints but things have moved on since then.
love the abacus board.couple of things,can be difficult to drill to fix enclosure etc if you hit a metal fixing washer.Also if your tiles are thin sometimes you have trouble getting a good fixing
Hi Alan
I use a thin bead of silicone up the back of shower profiles and the fixing is so good that the screws do nothing.
Broadcast from my House, Thank You very Much! 😊
Great video and information thank you 😊👍
I like the cave-like setting
I would like all the latest info on roofs/solar panels and their integration, and I would like to see Roger on a roof that demonstrates a good recent example. Oh and thanks once more for the invaluable guidance - it's my goto manual!
I use Ardex wpc tanking with scrim tape.
I use the propriety expanding adhesive on the joints thats made by the same manufacturer. Then use a knife to cut back the glue flush with a Stanley blade.
Personally with the backer I would follow Roger - I gap them with 3mm glazing packers - silicone or CT1 or OB1 the joints then scrim tape for a 100% wet room. Can even silicone the corners b4 scrimping. Never had a problem yet
That is a great way to do it
@@SkillBuilder PS - also forgot a good hack - use your rail saw blade/rail and new retractable knife for super straight scored and cut edges - quicker than sawing - u just use a few blades up. !!
So, can I just check - you don't use the rubberised tape on the joints at all?
@@ColinMill1 Hi Colin - I personally leave an exact 3mm joint - silicone, CT1 or OB1 the 3mm joint then scrim tape the joint for added strength. You could use the Butyl tape but it can be quite thick and may affect the tiling - hence why I use the scrim tape. That said it would be a much better "belt and braces" job with the butyl rubber tape. Most bathroom are generally poorly prepped with no primer ( aka Primeplus ) on the walls to give any sort of enhanced keying for tiles or multipanel/Febo boards.
@@sheridangatley8648 Many thanks for the reply! I certainly want to do a belt and braces job. I have recently discovered SBR and it seems like the perfect material for use in a wet room. I was amazed how good it was both in an SBR cement slurry and as an additive to the screed and finally as a proofer for the screed. So whatever else I use to tank I think I'll run a couple of coats of diluted SBR over for starters.
I'm looking forward to trying out the CT1 sealant.
Used no more ply mega strength adhesive on these boards
Love your vids I’m a rank amateur but am getting some great tips…..do you ever use shower boards rather than tiles in a shower, any hints or even a video…!
It looks like quite a lot of additional work with those small panels though and more joints to worry about. I've used 8x4 cement based 'plasterboard' sheets in these applications. Heavy buggers, but bomb proof I think
You can get larger foam panels.
Surface of the moon!
How did we build houses before CT1 and multitools??!
I was hoping for advice on the minimum thickness of backer board required if attaching on to a stud wall frame with the studs 600mm apart. The intention is to tile on to it.
Wedi says to use 20mm but abacus says 10mm. Is the abacus elements board stronger than the wedi product? I would prefer to use a thinner oard if possible.
Also does anyone know why wedi is so much more expensive. Is it more waterproof?
Many thanks for advice given.
Use plastic washers not SS, secondary fixings will penetrate easier. Put your offcuts at the outer edge so there are fewer tape joints in the wetter corners.
Abacus Elements all the way… I wouldn’t use anything else now! 🔥😎
Next broadcast should be from a zen garden but only if Rogers getting irate about heat pumps or the like for the contrast.
the sts boards you get from wickes say to use their own foaming adhesive in the joints ... its horrible stuff foams out of the joint causing a ridge you then have to try and cut off ... damaging the board in the process
Definitely agree with you. Makes a mess and is hard to remove. I sanded the joints and then taped the joints, now going to apply Aquadefense/liquid membrane to be sure.
Great video as always plz can you stop the breaker sound out the back ground.
Roger at Macchu Pichu would be worth seeing.
Wow!
I'd like to see Roger in scenes from major historical events, like a Forrest Gump, or Good Omens.
Roger giving plumbing advice in a Roman spa, or bricklaying advice at the Pyramids, electrical advice in Frankenstein's lab.
(What do you mean Frankenstein wasn't a historical event?)
Great advice.
Maybe the next video should be at number 10 Downing Street? That will give the correct level of authority.
I'd like to see the next Skill Builder broadcast from one of the Peckham estates. Can you fix it?
👍👍👍
From the top of the Eiffel Tower 👍
Location location location eh?
How did Roger feel about being a school teacher with the traditional rolling blackboard behind him?
Can you plaster over backer board?
In Pope throne room! Like in the Monty's last supper!
Gotta be the surface of the Moon next for me please
R. O. G. E. R. ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buckingham Palace, and I do want a skill builder beany hat and I can't imagine anyone wouldn't....
Roger, can you explain why no one is mentioning simple and cheap SBR that can act as some sort of tanking on its own. I do not get that. Even in the description of different SBR products you can find that: excellent water resistance; acts as a sealant etc. I believe SBR could replace many expensive tankings with almost zero cost. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
I put these boards up in my bathroom and then had a tiler come out to do the tiling. He did an absolutely horrendous job to the point where I was given my money back through small claims. The guy also blocked my external drain with tile adhesive which needed cutting out, he obviously didn't have a clue what he was doing.
I now need to remove the tiles and I'm going to give the tiling a go myself. I've tiled my kitchen floor and it came out great, just took a long time haha.
My question is, when I remove the old tiles will I have to replace all of the tile backer boards too? I'm assuming yes but I haven't taken any tiles off yet to see what sort of damage it causes.
Another question is that he has used some sort of loctite for the waterfall shower attachment. Do I have any hope of separating these when I retile? Maybe with some heat or something? Thanks!
Yup. The adhesive won’t be able to come off. The boards will most likely need replacing.
Would a low modulas neutral curing sealant work on joins, the kinda stuff used for window/door frames. Ive used used then when installing a frame a few years back and when i removed it recently it was still loose and tacky in the middle so imagine it reseals itself if there is movement. I used soudalseal lm215 from there sws system and is also a hybrid polymer, half the price if CT1
Some sealants are 80 % filler but Soudal is a good one
House of Lords!
Hi Roger.
Please give your advice.
I've just ripped out my bathroom and wish to insulate 2 of the wall as they are are solid walls of a tenement .
I wish to fit 40mm pir celotex and the then the elements backer board on top for tileing. If I stick the celotex to the wall first then use the mechanical fixings through both to the wall would that be Ok.
Best Regards Brian
yes if you can use the kind of fixings they sell for external wall insulation that will be fine. Otherwise you have to drill plug and screw them in.
I have an ensuite shower where water got behind the tiles and rotted the ply, probably due to not maintaining the grout to be fair. I am thinking of installing Multipanel ply backed shower panels, so would you recommend putting the tile backer boards between studs and shower board, or bond shower board direct to studs?
Bond the shower panels direct to the studs but make sure the vertical joins are sealed as per instructions. Also take care of the bottom so there is no wicking up of moisture.
Putting tile backer behind the boards will provide some insulation and reduce condensation on outside walls but it won't help keep you out of trouble. If water gets behind those panels it is a problem no matter what you put behind them.
There is even a case to say that an air space is better.
I would really appreciate some advice about strong fixings where Abacus board is used. I'm doing our downstairs shower room and am aware that in the future we may need to add grab rails, seats etc as we get older. My worry is that, unless I predict correctly and put studding in where the fixings are going to be needed I could have problems getting strong enough fixings when needed. So, I'm wondering if I should use a cement backer board instead despite the difficulties of using it.
Any thoughts would be most welcome. Thanks.
Hi Colin
If you think you will be able to get a good fixing in cement board it would seem to be a better option. I think I would be tempted to ply line the wall and then put the Elements board on if I had that problem. I have removed complete tiles with a multi-tool in order to put in noggings.
If I am doing a kitchen I always use plywood and then plasterboard on stud walls. It makes life so much easier.
@@SkillBuilder Many thanks for the reply. I like the idea of using ply to give me something reliable to fix extra items to in the future. I would prefer to use the Elements board over the fibre cement as I'm doing this solo and am, as a friend pointed out, into my 8th decade (sounds bad!)
Ive done many bathrooms over several decades straight on to the wall and never had a water problem from tiling. Ive been called back for the odd drip from a waste pipe/trap but none from the tiling
It is not an approved way of doing it if you follow the British Standard it needs to be tanked.
@@SkillBuilder BS 5385 Part 1: 2018 states that boards that are subject to movement from changes in moisture content should be avoided. It does not state that tile board should or has to be used. Bathrooms do not need to be tanked and 99% plus of the UKs bathrooms are not tanked. Plus considering that a copy of the latest BS publication is £350 who can afford that?
Can you fix Colin Furze's bunker?
😂😂😂
..... and he is a plumber by trade
Hi Roger. Is it possible to skim coat these panels? I'm getting dump on window reveals and I thought these could do the job. Just put 6mm panels on the window side walls, tape the corners and skimcoat that. Can this work?
Yes it works a treat and we will be doing something similar on a video soon. When you skim just put a thin coat on to bring out the dents in the mesh so it is flat. You can sponge float it if you like but let it go off before you do the next coat. If you try to do it in one hit you will find you have bubbles of air trying to push through the face of the plaster,
would you basically skim the entire lot to prevent the screw fixings from sticking out as u tile? Thy looked like they be annoying!
No that would be terrible. The best thing is to keep gypsum out of the bathroom. People who skim plasterboard and then tile it are doing more harm than good. The screws don't cause a problem and you can dish them right in if you tighten them a bit more.
@@SkillBuilder Sorry Sir, I meant skim it with the tanker or waterproof tile adhesive, Just enough so the screw fixings wont catch the trowel type thing,
Help! I'm doing up a bathroom in a first floor Victorian flat and its not possible to get a full size plasterboard up the stairs. I've done some research and I can't find anybody selling smaller sized water resistant plasterboard. So I'm wondering can I just put up tile backer boards (which does come in smaller sizes) for the whole room - some to be tiled and some to be plastered and painted. If so, can I use something like Bondit as a primer for the plaster? Any advice or ideas? PS it would be very difficult to cut the board on the pavement especially if it decides to rain.
Yes Join that is exactly the way to do it. When it comes to plastering the bit you aren't tiling, you need to run a skim over the boards to get rid of the texture. The indents trap air which can make tiny bubbles so let it dry and they will pull in. I then put a coat of dilute SBR on the dry plaster and skim as normal.
Can the boards be fixed to the stud directly or do they need plasterboard in between? Cheers
The boards go straight on the studs. Once the tiles go on and the adhesive grabs the mesh there is no deflection. It is solid as a rock
I'm building a timber frame and want to use external tiles on the outside can I use these tile backer boards with blue insulation inside fixed to the timber frame?
Yes you can
I'm just fitting those boards in my new bathroom now. I was unaware of the need to seal the joins. Is that just as an insurance policy in case the grout cracks or fails?
The whole point of the boards is to give you a completely waterproof substrate. Sealing the joints in the wet area is the way to achieve that. Don't worry. Just run a saw down each join and gun in some sealant. Let it dry and then tile.
The corner is the most important part.
Cheers, will do. @@SkillBuilder
Can we get Roger to broadcast weightless from the International Space Station next time, please?
So CT1 Just being run down the joints and the sides isn’t good enough as that’s what I do then cover the whole wall in waterproof tile adhesive before tiling
It is good enough if the movement isn't to much but for the corners I like a flexible tape.
@@SkillBuilder thank you
Do you use tile backer board straight onto brick? Or do you put it on top of plaster board?
Dot and dab it straight onto brick. You can use cement based tile adhesive
@@SkillBuilderthank you!
Roger has become a tomb raider
Ok...I've just been doing a shower cubicle and have used these for the first time...tbh i don't see the point .I've done my bathroom in plasterboard, tiled straight onto the board 15 years and no problem so far..if you do get a leak even on backer board the tiles still gonna come off.correct me if im wrong Rodger.
Looks to me like the backer board system is a waterproof layer between the tiles and the plasterboard. Hope that helps.
giogio
I have been out to so many jobs over the years which were done the way you describe. Are you seriously suggesting that a paper interface in a shower area is durable. The British Standard says no and an insurance company could easily walk aways from a claim for water damage. It won't be long before they start telling householders to claim from the plumber or house builder.
@@SkillBuilder agreed backer board is better but like I said 15 years and never a loose tile as long as the grout is kept in good order
International Space Station the next background for Roger>
Broadcast from this video but flipped so second Rodger in background - what's better than 1 Rodgers... 2 Rodgers
Inside the great Pyramid.
For one, the screw placement on the joints is bad practice. The washers are to stop the screw going through the board, not to hold the joints together.
610 the joints on the edges is an option as well as over the screws to seal the area. Alternatively as mentioned hardibacker tape with flexible tile adhesive.
You can use something like laticrete hydro ban in the corners as it bridges joints up to 3mm without any reinforcing tape, or Bal waterproof C1 will do similar. The trick is to have a tight joint in the corner to start with, and 610 would fix and seal the joint.
Don't use standard scrim tape ever as it needs to be alkali resistant, which hardibacker tape is.
I've sold various tile backer boards for over 21 years and are also a certified wedi installer, so it's great to see folks using these more and more.
Not sure if these will be included in the upcoming BS amendments though, for tanking bathrooms that's coming later in the year.
What would you do on the joints?
What would you do on the joints instead of the screws?
@@jeffhenderson9595 To ensure it's fully waterproof 610 the edge of the boards in a zig zag pattern then use reinforcing tape over the top.
Not sure what brand of board is been used here, so you really need to follow the manufacturer's guidance. I have known warranty issues with some brands if you have not followed it to the letter, even if it's been installed to higher standards.
@@BigJohn5662 You are saying the screw placement on the joints is bad practice, but the screws are holding the boards tight against the wall - if you don't put screws/washers on the joints, what do you use to hold the board in place?
@@jeffhenderson9595 You do screw the boards, but actually through the board itself.
Those screws on the edges aren't holding the boards the washers are! Bridging two boards with the screw going between the joint of both boards.
There's then random screws actually through the board.
You treat them like any other type of boarding.
You wouldn't fix any boarding like that, with a washer holding the edges and the screw between the joint would you? No you'd screw through the actual board.
next video from your local brewery
Is this not a bit overkill? Never seen this in my puff 🤷🏻♂️
No it is the proper way to do it. I see so many bathrooms where plasterboard has failed within 3 or four years. Why stick tiles on paper? It is madness
@@SkillBuilder Never seen it specced on any house I’ve built. I think if you’ve enough water leakage to be destroying water resistant gyproc, you’ve probably got bigger problems to solve.
I’m not saying it’s not a better product though.
@@naibozyou won't because it's more expensive and the builder is long gone by the time there's an issue. I wouldn't expect anything decent to go on new builds. If they can save a penny, they will. House building in the UK is shite.
I have been tiling onto plaster board for 18 years and no water getting behind. Is this problem down to poor application. I was going to try the board but wondering if it is really needed.
I have been out to so many jobs over the years which were done the way you describe. Are you seriously suggesting that a paper interface in a shower area is durable. The British Standard says no and an insurance company could easily walk aways from a claim for water damage. It won't be long before they start telling householders to claim from the plumber or house builder.
Same here pal...never had an issue
@@SkillBuilderI have ripped out plenty of bathrooms on renovation with damp and mould behind plasterboard but no problems on the outside. Thing is how many trillions of spores are being carried around the house unseen?
Basically you've got away with it. For now. As soon as those customers realise their tiles need regrouting the plasterboard behind will have already turned to mush.
Water will always penetrate the grout unless using epoxy and no tile adhesive is waterproof only resistant, so takes on water and then dries out.
Also how many times do silicone joints fail? If plasterboarding tanking is a must.
You also benifit from the increased load bearing capacity of backer board.
Surely Roger has to broadcast from the Roman baths……
I could say so much here but insert your own punchline.
However they were built to last
"promosm"
Makes no sense if tiles isnt waterproof the behind will collect water then you never know if you have a leak
Grout isn’t waterproof unless it’s epoxy. The substrate needs to be waterproof or the grout won’t dry out properly after use. You then get mould on the grout and behind the tiles.
No need anything other than good ventilation/extraction. Tile on plasterboard is fine, it's worked for decades. Bad workmanship and poor ventilation cause the problems.
You are so wrong, it has not worked for decades and the British Standards say it should be tanked. Why risk it when you can do the job properly for very little extra. I have been to so many failures and had to rip down plasterboard walls. It is wrong and the sooner it stops the better. Unfortunately you have penny pinching that costs the customer 10 times more in the end.
Honestly Rog, mapei primer where the bath/shower is and it will last@@SkillBuilder
If water is getting past the tiles, you’ve got problems regardless of sub surface material.
Unless you’re using epoxy the grout isn’t waterproof. It will absorb moisture and if the substrate isn’t waterproof mould will start to grow and spread on the grout and behind the tiles.
@@cgehansen2 yes agreed. I use an epoxy hybrid wherever possible.
These types of backer boards are waterproof and we're designed for building wetrooms and the likes.
Used with a powder adhesive even submersed, failure rate would be low so long as all of the joints are sealed properly.
You can build a box with these things and fill it with water with no issues of leakage.
@@BigJohn5662 so? If you’re getting water behind tiles, it doesn’t magically disappear. You’ve got problems no matter what, like I said.
@@grrinc I don't get what problem? You always have some water penetration in showers. The adhesive and grout is designed to get wet and not fail, been water resistant it just drys out again.
With plasterboard that fails overtime as it doesn't like the moisture that is taken in, this type of board usually been waterproof doesn't fail.
As with a tanking coating. This gets wet but stops water penetrating to the substrate behind, and allows it to dry out via air dispersion through the grout joints.
Hardibacker board is only water resistant, so again will take on the moisture, but been cement based doesn't breakdown and fail. As well as been mould resistant.
How do you think swimming pools cope? Most water resistant grouts and adhesive can be used to tile the pool, but don't fail even when taking on water in total submersion.
This is due to the substrate usually been concrete and tanked.
It's not usually the adhesive and grout which fails under wet conditions, but the substrate to which it's fixed.
Come later this year fixers won't have much options on new build bathrooms where ground is broken, but to use a product such as this or tank as it's to become part of BS (in July I believe.)
But we know fitters won't do this and cut corners. Leaving their customers with a big bill if it fails, as insurance companies just won't pay out.
Yes hat please. Rodger could present from parliament where the Pm stands 😉or where the chair. Sits