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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- The newest game in the Paper Mario series took it in a new direction while also going back to ideas that worked really well. Did Intelligent Systems manage to pull off a great game, or are they still being haunted by their previous choices?
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The creative limitations Nintendo has been imposing on the Paper Mario series can also be seen throughout the entirety of the Mario series. Most notably, when the generic characters and story of Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam lead to the death of its RPG series.
If half of this game wasn't dragged down by yet another poorly designed combat system I'm willing to bet old and new fans alike would've celebrated it. Had they made this game fully real time combat like SPM or Zelda, it could've been genuinely great. Had they brought back the old battle system, it would've stood next to TTYD as one of the best in the series. But, in the words of Arlo, "why would they give you something good, when they can give you something new."
The rotating was good, but idk why they kept using the buyable attacks, just gimme attacks, maybe they could’ve given us special attacks that attack specific parts of the board so you have to organize the enemies more than just “line. 2x2.”
@@laundrybaskets4473 It really wasn't though, the core issue is you're spending too much time doing nothing to do basic actions. Other games have used combat centered on moving enemies around, and those games have done it through attacks and focus on chaining attacks using weak ones to move enemies so you can hit them all with a strong attack. All while having party members so you create synergies through their skill sets.
There is a reason people say these 3 Paper Mario games are bad gameplay wise, we've figured out how to solve the issues these systems face for years in other games. From character design being varied, to rewarding you both per action and per combat.
Imo PM64 is the best in the series, but TTYD is extremely close
@@HeatherTD1 what makes u say that (also nice pfp)
@@cchocolacola I really liked the world building of it and the art style was fun
Man, there is nothing trippier than watching the ending of this video in the aftermath of the Thousand Year Door remake.
I think LSD might be trippier
In my opinion the best way to mix story book and craft aesthetic for the series is a pop up scratch book design that way you can mix the two. Also your channel is so underrated and the level of quality is so good.
They're so close to getting it perfect. If they use the exploration and visuals from the new games and add the RPG elements and partners from the first two games then they'll hit a home run.
its not old school like the first two, and its definitely a sequel to SS and CS, but it has a lot going for it those two don't. i think i line up exactly with arlo on this one.
Actually, I'd say it's neither. Kinda like Super Paper Mario.
@@seroujghazarian6343 Yeah I agree. I pair PM1 and 2 together since 2 built up it. Then SPM is by itself, then SS and CS cause CS was basically a response and re attempt, but OK is again by itself for me.
PMOK is my first PM. In a vacuum, I think it’s a solid 8/10 game. The ring system was tedious, but I liked the setting/world and story. Maybe I’d feel differently if I’d played the older PM games.
And the music is so goddam fantastic!
All I can say is, as someone who loves this game and thinks it’s MUCH more than just “Sticker Star 3” or whatever, this was a good honest video about why you don’t personally don’t like this game and that I can genuinely respect. You’re not forcing others to share your opinion nor are you telling people that like the game that they’re “wrong”, you’re just simply giving your personal thoughts and opinions and why this game didn’t appeal to you and I truly respect and admire that. It’s very rare to find a long analysis video covering this game that’s actually RESPECTFUL and not SPITEFUL towards those that actually LIKE it and for that I give extreme kudos to you.
I actually agree, he is very respectful with his opinions. I just think that the way he explains it is poor and I don't understand it
I had played this game while I was facing a serious depression from the COVID 19 lockdown and I didn’t have much to expect as I dropped my nerdy autismo Mario RPG phase when I was seventeen years old and I was pretty much snapping at strangers online with pent up anger from being isolated. I had cried uncontrollably twice playing this game, the first time with Bobby blowing up the boulder and the ending with the characters lifting the lanterns into the sky. There was something in it that had hurt me when it came to the outcome of the characters and what they had faced.
If COVID never happened and I played this game when we weren’t isolated and forced to stay indoors, then I would have reacted differently and been more like “Well that was depressing”, but the timing of when the game came out is probably what had hurt me internally. The best way that I can put it is that it’s like Ghostbusters 2 being a film set in New York and released before 911 being more timeless than dark destruction heavy films set in New York because of it’s story being about the restoration of faith in the people of New York, the case here being that Origami King was released during COVID 19 and it took on unintended meanings in its environments, its characters’ decisions and its ending.
Wow. That's deep.
@@supermariof0521nah fr i wasnt ready for that shit 💀
Yup, same here bud. A third time for the 100% ending was also warranted
1:02:52 Actually, writing on Origami is considered a big Faux-Pas, which is why Ollie took it as such a big slight. I think it's kinda clever, though I do agree that it's still a stupid motivation for your big villain.
It's both a stupid reason, and a disrespect to most players. It's expecting players to know origami facts, as if they think that the primary audience are papercraft and art nerds, instead of, y'know, the actual paper mario needs. It's emblematic of what they somehow gotten into their heads is the primary reason people played paper mario, when they're dead wrong, and have been for years now.
Honestly, I think it's a good motive. He thinks that it's disrespectful because he doesn't know any better. He's like a child that judges things based on first impressions and as a result, he acts rashly because he doesn't know any better. Kinda fitting the theme of life that i've noticed with Bobby, Olivia and him so I actually think this is a great motive.
sad that you didnt like the visuals that much in origami king,, i think its the best in the whole series but i understand :(
i started this franchise with Super Paper Mario when I was little and then Paper Mario 64 on the Wii Eshop and Sticker Star when I was little too, so I feel rather nostalgic for all three games, and even trough that I have to admit Sticker Star has a LOT of flaws and whilst Color Splash certainly improved but didn't fix it all, I loved and still do love that game because I don't hate Sticker Star as much as the fans who grew up with only the first two, and I can definetly see why you wouldn't like those games if you grew up with only the originals, I put Origami King up with Super Paper Mario as my third favorite game. I think Origami King was fantastic, but it's a fact that it doesn't match the original two, but I hope they move forward and shaft the dumb rule, because I know Intelligent systems has proved by this game, that if they had no limitation, they could make a game that might top the 2 originals.
Mario had almost every gaming genre covered and Paper Mario was supposed to be it's quintessential coverage for RPG. But then the direction it's going now, the RPG is long gone. And Mario & Luigi superstar saga was also another amazing RPG but that's gone too. Luckily we still have Ubisoft's Mario+Rabbids to fill this void and that game is a masterpiece.
This has got to be one of my favorite games ever, the ost was amazing, I loved the aesthetic, I love playing games to completion so this game has that down, the story was very nice and I liked the writing in the game! Im one of those fans who played this game first in the series and then played the earlier ones later like the original or super. I liked all of them! so I'll be sure to watch the rest of this retrospective series! keep up the good work!
I remember reading that interview with Tanabe as well and it had the exact same impact on me; it made me more angry than anything. How they could be so stupid as to handcuff themselves like that is beyond me. What I would give for one of these so called gaming journalists to actually push back on such a ridiculous statement for once.
I know it’s probably overstated at this point, but man I miss Ryota Kawade. That guy clearly gave his blood and tears for the first 3 games. The sad part is Tanabe isn’t all bad, he oversaw Metroid Prime and Luigi’s Mansion. But for some reason with Paper Mario, he just pumps out beyond average entry after beyond average entry.
That being said, I do admit that OK was way better than both SS and CS. Id still rank it below Super though, and way below the first 2. It had some really cool moments though, but it’s held back by some utterly absurd (and seemingly stubborn) elements.
Kensuke Tanabe is what killed the paper mario series, along with nasty blandness and lack character creavity that nintendo has been opposing on the Mario series ever since Paper Mario Sticker Star.
For that they told me, Tanabe is just a good supervisor and productor, but has very poor ideas that leads to other poor games. He also directed Metrid: Federation Forces and Chibi Robo Zip Lash, the last games being extremely polemic (that last one have like 5/10 in Metacritic and called out as one of the worst 3DS game Nintendo released).
this is the best paper mario game TTYD does not come close
@@cloverkip Glad that you enjoyed that much, I wish that I wouldn't have so many mixed feelings with this game.
@@JoseViktor4099 it's like i dont get how people can hate it, the old battle mechanic gets so boring and the characters in origami king bring life especially the dance scenes and its all just amazing
31:08
I feel like it's more of a philosophical guilt because these bob-omb's lives are in your hands they are more willing to sacrifice themselves in order to protect the ship and if you miss a single airplane that is a life wasted so your mission is to make sure that all these guys have a good impact
I dunno, I feel like Olivia could have just wished "I wish all origami folded by Ollie in the last [however long the game lasted] would be unfolded" or something like that, but whatever her sacrifice was better than Kersti and Huey just coming back because like what you said.
I agree with you
Honestly, the way I see her sacrifice is exactly how she sees Bobby's sacrifice and why it meant so much to her. Bobby was a genuine friend to her and seeing him die just to save her life is extremely caring and noble. What makes the sacrifice better is that when you think about it, there are so many options that they could've done to save her like find something else to destroy the boulder but out of every option, he chose the one that would end his life because he is extremely aware that she is dying and that he needs to act as soon as possible or Olivia is gone, so he picks a selfless action to save her and it's even more sad because he's well aware that his life is short and instead of spending it being unfulfilled and just living his life to the fullest, he uses it in the best way he sees his life for and that's what makes Bobby sacrifice so good. Olivia doesn't know much but after he died, it clearly had an impact on her because we see her less confident, more scared and less helpful (albeit very very little) after he died because it actually did affect her, his death and his life meant something to her (and honestly that thought me that my and other people's life have meaning no matter how useless it is) and in her last moments, she wants to do something that shows true, genuine love towards others. There are better solutions, but what she's showing is genuine love for the people that changed her life forever, just like how Bobby did to her. And that's why I personally adore her sacrifice but at the end of the day, it's your opinion. If you still think that's a problem then that's completely fine with me
If the indie devs to bug fables can replicate the charm, characters, story and battle system thats of pm ttyd had and build on it while offering the same features and more than there is no excuse on nintendo part. With Kensuke Tanabe trying to reinvent the wheel for every paper mario game in series rather than building on what the first two game established,he and his team is have practically killed paper mario series.
As quoted by Thomas Bertram Lance
If it isn't broke don't fix it.
There are things about this game I don't like but so much about it I do like
In regards to Bobby's sacrifice/the ethics of weaponizing generic Bob-ombs in the shmup segment:
Yes, Mario and Olivia mourn Bobby, but he doesn't want to be mourned. From his perspective AS a Bob-Omb, this is the choice he's making: he's found something valuable enough in life-- his new friends-- to warrant making the ultimate sacrifice, which to a Bob-Omb is the highest honor and basically WHY they live. He goes out with a smile, knowing his life's purpose is fulfilled, and that his one shot made such an impact that it led to Mario saving the kingdom.
With that in mind, yes, all of the Bob-Ombs in Bowser's Castle were presumably individuals, each with their own stories and personalities, but they're united by the same goal: to make their explosion count. I would assume based on that Bob-Omb "culture" that each one of those guys found fulfillment in being even a little bit of help towards undoing Bowser's folding and dethroning Olly. Like Bobby, they've all chosen to sacrifice themselves for this one moment without regret.
I gotta hand it to these developers. They’ve made three of the worst combat systems in gaming history back to back.
It’s not that bad Lmao
I think the music for the scissors works due to how dangerous of an enemy it is to paper people
Love how this game makes the villian have the same view of the community that all the toads are the same and boring, I think the devs were really trying to poke fun there
TOK is my second most fav game in the PM series
I'll admit Origami King is my favourite Paper Mario game (although it's the only one I've actually played). The battle system is unique and quite fun, as well as being more enjoyable than the standard flat battles. The paper aesthetic is used to its full potential, especially thanks to the League of Stationary. There's a great soundtrack, surprisingly memorable characters, and a lot of charm. Hopefully future Paper Mario titles will take inspiration from the Origami King, as I feel like it's a great direction point for the series.
I will buy one Copy tomorrow, i never Player paper Mario before, but i want this game on my Switch collection because of the astetics. I dont Like RPGs and if this game is not RPG directed i will love it. You comment helped me, thanks
i mean if it is the only game you've played it HAS to be your favorite
Just a note:
In origami, altering the paper in any way, shape or form is totally forbidden. You can only fold and unfold it.
By writing on it, it would be similar as a parent tattooing something on their newborn's skin. A traumatic experience.
So, as a motivation, it works in my book. In his eyes, Ollie was marked forever my the person who brought him to life.
About why the fuck does Ollie not read it himself instead of going murderous king? Idk
Let's say that it was in an inner part of him and he could not read it himself but he could feel the mark.
Not gonna lie, Origami King is my second favorite Paper Mario game. While it was so so different from TTYD, I felt that magic again from TTYD. This is my tenth favorite game of all time now, and while I know it is full of flaws, I adored this game so much and I would honestly be okay we got another game like The Origami King. However, some day something kinda needs to change haha. The fact it is so far removed from what it originally was is just kind of baffling. However, what I love about Intelligent Systems is that they were able to go around Miyamoto's rules of no interesting characters and *make that part of the plot*. The fact that we had a character like Bobby, the whole point of his character being that he *isn't* an interesting character and he just wants to make an impact? That was a genius move. This shows that Intelligent Systems is trying their best to make phenomenal games and they are finding ways to move around the restrictions they have.
I also have to disagree with the manipulative part of the Bob-Ombs. I think it comes full circle, showing that these Bob-Ombs had to make an impact, and that while Olivia can't realize that, Mario, Bowser, and Kamek understand the necessity of the moment. I thought that scene was brilliant. But I get how it seemed awkward for you haha.
at this point it seems like theyre screaming for less restrictions like they poured their heart and soul into the ttyd remake
@@ABulbmin yeah it feels like they are doing the absolute best they can with what they have
Paper Mario feels like a game series that got hit by a sticker-bus and we've been watching the cripple series slowly regain use of their legs.
Lmfao, well said
The main thing regarding the combat of those Paper Mario games is that the director of the studios or so... wanted to, essentially, make an RPG... without RPG elements. I think he said so around the release of the Origami King, when he was talking about the idea behind the Ring System.
That's why there's no XP in the games, at least in a way that increases your stats - they don't want stats to be a thing, they don't want numbers of your attack power or even special attacks to be a concern, which might explain why they instead went for collectable and expendable tokens to use as attacks instead of proper attack choices, why Color Splash showed no values for enemy HP, and why coins were tossed at you so that there'd be no risk of you running out of all methods of attacking.
But this whole thing is like trying to fit a round peg in a triangle hole. No matter the amount of coins you get in each battle, that doesn't give you any real incentive for fighting at all, since you'll only be spending coins for, you guessed it, more attack methods. The Origami King's solution? Keep the whole thing as it is, but give you a permanent way to do the most basic attacks, which is not a bad idea, it relegates special attacks to usable items... but then they add a ring-shaped layer of complexity to it all, just for the sake of trying to do something different, trying to cast people's minds away from the bummer systems of the previous two games, while still sticking to the core idea of not making this an RPG yet still insisting on adding turn-based battles.
Basically, their core philosophy for the battle systems of these games is to avoid doing the only thing that could truly save them. How mind boggling is that? It's like making a platformer without verticality (and I don't say "without jumping" because Captain Toad did it, although that's more of a puzzle game), or making a SHMUP without free movement, not even horizontal, and making your only actions be either shooting or blocking projectiles. Fine stuff for a minigame, not a full game.
Though, the best thing they did with the battle system was by far the Boss Battles in OK, it reminds me of those Flash Game puzzles where you lead a somnambulant person towards a goal with arrows on a grid floor, they embrace the whole puzzle aspect fully, and are self contained in their solutions. They also work better in great part because Things are gone, so the boss battles aren't an adventure game trick puzzle where you need an item to solve them and either manage to find the correct solution or fail miserably and die until you find it. I swear, I don't even know what was the mindset behind the Things as a whole. It was already flawed on paper, no one liked it in practice, and they for some reason still did it twice.
What’s the song that plays at the modern paper Mario section?
Snif City Royal Hotel (Pool)!
@@ScionVysethank you!
Paper mario origami king was meant to showed at e3 but was cansal due to the pantamect you know what i mean
Just spell correctly lol.. they do not care about people saying certain words
At this point I just wish they'd take out the battling if they aren't going to make an RPG anymore
Great video!
I bought this game in 2020 & I'm only now playing it. I'm actually really enjoying it, even with the circular battle system, & I'm planning to play TTYD next
it's because of this that bobby is unforgivable without this secrafise bobby would still be a likeable character but he woulden't really stand out
19:10 i say that the devs used the same theme for handaconda's boss fight
So pumped to watch this!
This is the single most honest retrospective I've ever seen, even if I can't justify not liking this game.
I do if nothing else try to be honest! And I truly am glad that there are people who like things that I don't, it's great to see people get enjoyment out of it, reminds me that my opinion isn't the only one that matters.
Glad ya gave the game a fair shake and gave it the deserved praise it deserves, but honestly I loved the game, and more than that I really liked the combat system.
It's true it gives ya tons of coins making items inconsequential, but while I agree it makes some fights too easy, I'd much rather it over the alternative in Sticker Star where the resources spent fighting > the rewards.
And while yes you can pay the toads to do part of the fight for you, that heavily mitigates the rewards you get, to the point where you lose out on money, so you can't do it every fight. It still becomes a lowkey resource management game. Plus, if you want to go for 100% completion, you're required to have a certain number of coins, so it's best not to waste them.
Idk all in all I played the game without equipping items or seeking help from the toads, and honestly it made the combat extremely challenging and rewarding. I might be in the minority here
When it comes to the battle system, I've said it before and I'll say it again, this could have been solved if the puzzle that needed to be done then transitions into old school turn based combat. Boom new thing combined with the old
Oh shit ur right
That would've just made the puzzle part even more obnoxious as it is an extra step with minimal benefit, and turn based combat without a long term reward is going to lead into the core issues of it is better to just not fight.
The core issue with combat in these 3 PM games is the lack of reward meaning walking around it is more preferable and every moment in combat only makes you weaker and takes time. There is no gain at all.
Not a big fan of puzzle games myself but I breezed through most of TOK's ring system
Side note: saw this video on my recommended and, when you said to watch the other ones first, I did. Love your video style!
31:14 there's this idea that bob ombs are made for this world and all they care about is fafild ther purpose and thats also why they don't have names ther meant to be dispoable and while parts of bobby's backstory is wierd this is why i think it's okey for bobby to just be a normal bob omb instead of having a unique design even if they don't explore the conecpt more theres at least an intersing idea to be flesh out
31:26 I don't think the game "wrote itself into a corner". They wanted to make a joke and they did just that. Otherwise they would've just used cannonballs or Bullet Bills, which are way more common in a scenario like this than Bob-ombs.
Not sure I like Olivia. These companions in the newest games can be very intrusive commenting on every single thing that happens, and Olivia just isn't entertaining like Huey was, her naive kiddie schtick gets old kinda fast, and then the puns...
I mean, Origami King did bring some qol stuff to the series like a Retry screen
I think the game is fine for what it is, but as someone who has never played Thousand Year Door, I feel that Origami King is still lesser than TTYD.
True story: I found just watching a Let's Play of TTYD to be more fun than actually PLAYING Origami King. I think that speaks volumes, don't you?
It's funny how much Nintendo wants to restrict creative freedom of Mario as a franchise when literally nobody was complaining about it. Is it just because they can't sell merch for characters like Geno due to copyright messes?
They say it's because of a focus on mechanics, but I can't buy that with how much they've been kneecapping making games be mechanically interesting either. Origami King feels like the absolute best game they could make with Nintendo's restrictions, but it also just showcases how limiting those are. I feel like this will either be the last Paper Mario game, or people will WISH it was the last.
Where are the Olivia plushies at?
The way i found out paper Mario the origami king was coming out is i watch first trailer i don't speend a lot of time on Twitter so i didn know it was twit and well one thing You should know about me is that i don't yell when i watch a trailer i just stand there with no words simply becuase i don't want to interrob the music if you get what i mean
What's the name of the song playing at 12:00?
That's Snif City Royal Hotel Pool!
@@ScionVyse Thank you for the prompt response! Was worried I'd have to scrub through the whole OST
With the Thousand-Year Door Remake now a thing...it makes you wonder what changed for them to go back to how the old Paper Mario was. Who or what changed to give the creators their original freedoms back?
idk perhaps its some kind of way to indicate that the devs really want the old paper mario style back but theyre restricted 🤷♀🤷♀
They just want the money. The TTYD remake will come out and fund the next mundane modern Paper Mario game with its profits. They will literally take advantage of their die hard fans' goodwill just to continue disappointing them. Nintendo in a nutshell.
@@Tetragramix I don't want to be that cynical, but I feel like if the remake doesn't sell amazingly well you'll probably end up being right. A remake generally takes much less effort than making a full new game, so MAYBE they're testing the waters to see how much people ACTUALLY want old Paper Mario to come back. If everyone buys it, maybe they'll rethink what they're doing...but who knows. I mean a lot of the developers clearly care about what they're making but the higher-ups don't, so I don't really know what they want.
No love for the Disco Devil or Snif City themes?!
You sounded like you were singing here 11:45
Okay but besides all the complaining, the game is really good from what i've seen from zackscottgames, and the dialogue and story is pretty good, and so is the music and many other aspects
54:11 Dividing something by 10 is getting 10 percent of that thing tho... or am i not understanding your meaning?
Cut by 10%, meaning 90%. Then he corrected to one tenth, meaning 10% proper.
He meant to clarify that he doesn't mean reduced BY 10% (or 90%), but reduced TO 10%.
1:03:23 there are some extra contaxt for olly's motivatión but this is not something your avrage person will know and its that in origami culture it's frowned upon to use any tools while creating origami your just supposed to fold paper and that's it you're not supposed to use staplers tape hole punchers scissors rubber bands or pencils that's why olly is so mad that his creator wrote on him he disrespected the art of origami by doing this
I hate this game. It's not fun. It's frustrating. The battle system is the worst thing I've ever experienced. And it's all the more frustrating because of how much about this game I do actually like. It was so funny, the characters we were allowed to have were really fun and cute. The world is GORGEOUS. But I can't enjoy any of that when I spend so much time dreading most of the gameplay itself.
I get why people like it. But it just was the biggest disappointment I've ever experienced with a game. I'll never play it again.
i notice you tend to overthink in a negative direction. Cars runs into the same issues, but doesn't have the advantage of opening up PG body horror. paper mache enemies are flesh golems when you think about it. then we also have bobombs. their philosophy is we live to make an impact. These bobombs Made an impact. they may not be remembered individually, but they are remembered collectively. just don't MISS.
Honestly my second favorite Paper Mario game, first being the original!
The battle system is cancer, but I like everything else. Better than Sticker Star and Color Splash.
There’s been a lot of rumors tha Myamoto is stepping away from games to work on the new Nintendo film division… that would be greatttt
the game sure is a step up from the last two games but its a step down from the series as a whole in comparison to the first 3, a least ttyd remake leaves some hope for a proper paper mario in the future. spm wasn't even a true rpg and it felt more paper mario then anything post ss.
To me, this may be the only Paper Mario game i've played but if this game is the best Nintendo game i've played then I want to play the first 2 games. The graphics look beautiful, the story is fantastic, the characters are extremely well written and fun, the battle system is extremely fun even tho i'm bad at it and the music is Top 3 for me. Olivia, Bobby and Olly specifically are the highlights of the game as they made me appreciate simplistic characters and designs and even helped me appreciate the value and meaning of life (yes i'm being serious, look deeper into those 3 characters)
And after watching this entire video and hearing your critiques and opinions, I can honestly say that you are way, way waaaaaay too harsh on this game. Like genuinely I didn't feel like this game was given a fair chance because it's being compared to the first two games which i've always found to be stupid because clearly that's not the purpose of this game. It feels more like a mix of the old and new style and I think it works wonders with that aspect because it took aspects from what worked based on what they're limited with and making the best that they can make and you even know this yet you constantly complain that it's not as good as the first two games. This game doesn't have to be on par with the past games, it's not like the first two games, it's not like the last two games and it's certainly not like Super Paper Mario, it's supposed to be it's own thing so it's only fair if it's treated like it's own thing.
Next, some of your points make no sense and are almost nitpicky at some points. Like you made a point that the game is utilizing more of the paper aspect and because of that it's a problem? Why? What's the problem? The past games utilize the paper aspect because the games are called Paper Mario, why wouldn't they focus more on the paper aspect? In fact if it utilized less of the paper aspect then I would consider that a bad thing, it's like in The Lego Movie where everything is made of lego which even involved things like the water and it's praised for it's creative visuals, The Origami King looks gorgeous because of it's creative visuals so why is it being considered a problem when in the other games, that's not a problem at all? Also this is a bit contradictory because the whole issue with the modern Paper Mario games is that they lack creativity and are lazy, well the visuals are extremely creative and had effort put into them yet suddenly it's a problem? Another problem, Bobby's death is sad and most of the community has this opinion but you also seem to not like it? You then complain that later on in the story, when Bob-ombs are being used as a sacrifice, you argued that Mario and Olivia don't seem upset over this. I actually agree with this but then you randomly bring up the point that it's manipulative? Where did you get that from? Nothing implies that a simple plothole like this has any deeper implications like that, the problem is simply that Olivia and Mario are fine with them dying, that's it. It's not as dark as you brought up and it makes no sense. It's also confusing because once again, do you like the sacrifice or not? I honestly do not get the point you are trying to make, you complain about one thing but because you don't explain further, it seems like you're contradicting what you just said.
I also want to mention that i'm getting sick and tired of someone complaining about one thing that's optional but taking that feature and because they don't like it in their opinion, they make it a big deal which I never understand. This applies to all Mario btw, in this case you'e talking about the battle system and how it can easily be solved by paying Toads, here's a genius solution to the problem you mentioned, just don't use it. It's literally as simple as not using an optional feature of the game, it's not like the game is encouraging you to use it, in fact I would argue that it encourages you to solve the puzzle normally because one of the bonuses after you win is you solving the puzzle which earns you more money whereas with the Toads, I don't even think they mention it at least once so how are they encouraging you to always use that feature? And also, why are you assuming that they just don't care? Why does every critic assume the worst in other people? Seriously, because they add an optional feature automatically means that the devs don't care about the battle system? Like with Bobby's death, you got that point out of nowhere, there's nothing that implies that they don't care, in fact the interviews show the opposite because it shows that they do care but they're limited. That solution can easily be chalked up to them knowing that there will be people that aren't good with puzzles or just wants to play a game that isn't hard which i'm one of those people btw and giving them an alternative for them to do, it's not evil at all. You are thinking way too deep honestly, it also makes me worried that when I eventually work on videogames, just thinking of a simple solution for different people will make people see me in a bad light and I really don't like that perspective.
Seriously everytime you mention a good point to the game, you follow it up with either a comparison or a negative point. If someone will think that you despise the game then you can't blame anyone because it feels like you do. You should've paced the video better by mentioning the positives more often and mentioning the negatives in a different segment or at least giving sometime before you mention it. I'm not saying that anyone's opinion on this game being disappointing because it's not like the past games it bad, it's your opinion and I would honestly hate to do that to a person. I'm just saying that if people were to critique a game like this then they need to be fair and have no bias nor unnecessary points at all, just judging the game by what it is rn.
Not reading that
@@nunyabiddeness6544 Then why did ya comment?
Better version of your arguement -
"To me, this may be the only Paper Mario game I've played, but if this game is the best Nintendo game I've played, then I want to play the first two games. The graphics look beautiful, the story is fantastic, the characters are extremely well written and fun, the battle system is extremely fun even though I'm bad at it, and the music is top 3 for me. Olivia, Bobby, and Olly specifically are the highlights of the game as they made me appreciate simplistic characters and designs. They even helped me appreciate the value and meaning of life - yes, I'm being serious. Look deeper into those three characters.
After watching this entire video and hearing your critiques and opinions, I can honestly say that you are way too harsh on this game. Genuinely, I didn't feel like this game was given a fair chance because it's being compared to the first two games. I've always found that to be stupid because that's not the purpose of this game. It feels more like a mix of the old and new style, and I think it works wonders with that aspect because it took aspects from what worked based on what they're limited with and making the best that they can make. You even know this, yet you constantly complain that it's not as good as the first two games. This game doesn't have to be on par with the past games. It's not like the first two games, it's not like the last two games, and it's certainly not like Super Paper Mario. It's supposed to be its own thing, so it's only fair if it's treated like it's own thing.
Next, some of your points make no sense and are almost nitpicky at some points. You made a point that the game is utilizing more of the paper aspect, and because of that, it's a problem. Why? What's the problem? The past games utilize the paper aspect because the games are called Paper Mario. Why wouldn't they focus more on the paper aspect? If it utilized less of the paper aspect, then I would consider that a bad thing. It's like in The Lego Movie where everything is made of Lego, which even involved things like the water, and it's praised for its creative visuals. The Origami King looks gorgeous because of its creative visuals, so why is it being considered a problem when in the other games, that's not a problem at all? Also, this is a bit contradictory because the whole issue with the modern Paper Mario games is that they lack creativity and are lazy. Well, the visuals are extremely creative and had effort put into them, yet suddenly it's a problem.
Another problem is that Bobby's death is sad and most of the community has this opinion, but you also seem to not like it. You then complain that later on in the story when Bob's bombs are being used as a sacrifice, you argue that Mario and Olivia don't seem upset over this. I agree with this, but then you randomly bring up the point that it's manipulative. Where did you get that from? Nothing implies that a simple plothole like this has any deeper implications like that. The problem is simply that Olivia and Mario are fine with them dying, that's it. It's not as dark as you brought up, and it makes no sense. It's also confusing because once again, do you like the sacrifice or not? I honestly do not get the point you are trying to make. You complain about one thing, but because you don't explain further, it seems like you're contradicting what you just said.
I also want to mention that I'm getting sick and tired of someone complaining about one optional thing but taking that feature and because they don't like it in their opinion, they make it a big deal, which I never understand. This applies to all Mario games, by the way. In this case, you are talking about the battle system and how it can easily be solved by paying Toads. Here's a genius solution to the problem you mentioned: just don't use it. It's as simple as not using an optional feature of the game. It's not like the game is encouraging you to use it. I would argue that it encourages you to solve the puzzle normally because one of the bonuses after you win is you solving the puzzle, which earns you more money. Whereas with the Toads, I don't even think they mention it at least once, so how are they encouraging you to always use that feature? And also, why are you assuming that they just don't care? Why does every critic assume the worst in other people? Seriously, just because they add an optional feature automatically means that the devs don't care about the battle system? Like with Bobby's death, you got that point out of nowhere. There's nothing that implies that they don't care. The interviews show the opposite because it shows that they do care but they're limited. That solution can easily be chalked up to them knowing that there will be people who aren't good with puzzles or just want to play a game that isn't hard, which I'm one of those people, by the way, and giving them an alternative for them to do. It's not evil at all. You are thinking way too deeply. Honestly, it also makes me worried that when I eventually work on video games, just thinking of a simple solution for different people will make people see me in a bad light, and I don't like that perspective."
also watch this 1:05:43
You seriously deserve more views.
35:51 i like the i deas You came with but You said that Mario would Start with Zero attack slots meaning the first tutorial battle is unwinable
Presumably the tutorial battle would happen immediately AFTER getting the first slot.
@@ZeroKitsune ho ok thin
This game is hard to enjoy in a vacuum if you've played the old games or if you've read the interviews. Those interviews point out just how arbitrary and contrived several aspects of this game are like no unique characters, paper gimmicks being more important than a good story, no rpg mechanics, etc. Like, instead of caring about superficial stuff, they should just want to make a good game, but they don't. They want NEW stuff and gimmicks.
My ranking of the games.
Thousand Year Door
Super Paper Mario
Paper Mario on the Nintendo 64
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Paper Mario needs to be more like the first 3 games
Origami King
Color Splash
Sticker Shit-i mean "star"
Average ttyd fan
@@MusuemBucket yeah I know. But if I'm being honest I haven't hated all of the newer paper Mario games, just sticker star (really hated the battle system and the story was non existent among other issues but those other issues are more easily forgiven)
Genuine for any sticker star fans: what about the game do you like?
Also to anyone that likes sticker star: more power to you, I wish I could have liked the game. I got it when it came out and I was really excited to play it but I wound up not enjoying it at all
@@krystalcasey tbh I like the modern paper Mario’s the same as the old ones, sticker star still sucks
@@MusuemBucket you wanna know the funny thing? The only games I've beaten are color splash and origami king, I've tried thousand Year door super paper Mario and 64 and I like all of them more then color splash and origami king but I got sidetracked with other games and that's why I never finished them.
This people will buy a old game that was announced TTYD, they will pay for the same 100 year old game, Origami King was and is brand new, you dont have to use always the same formula for years, but thats what Nintendo does, same shit same money. Origami King #1
Shy Guys Finish Last is the only reason I will never replay this game. I hated that part.
Same. That part freaking stressed me out. I was also a bit tired of the ring system by that point and just wanted to be done.
Not Mitamoto, it's Tanabe.
i despise shy guys finish last its just awfull
Ttyd was a masterpiece. OG paper mario was a damn good start. Origami king was....ok. my only gripe is the battle system/weapons system, and the lack of a party in leu of interchangeable partners. The rest was pretty good. I think you have to keep in mind when playing these games, that they're intended for CHILDREN. So of course silly jokes, holes in logic and "the universe", and goofy boss battles are expected. Their target audience for these games are people using birthday and tooth fairy money to buy it. Not 30 year olds. Lol (I'm 33, I just take the game with a grain of salt)
Just becuase a game is for children does not mean it shouldn't be thought through. tho, some of these things don't matter. I'm not distracted by overthinking the paper universe becuase i'm distracted by how overthinking other parts makes everything olly does horror. unleashing fleash golems, bending everyone's body to unatural shapes. it's terrifying from a paper perspective.
Dude would you really want a game over after you just started i dont think so 4:21
As long as you can quickly get back to the spot that gave you that Game Over, then sure go ahead.
I'd much rather have moments like that, instead of dealing with more 'illusion of choice' bullshit.
@@King_Luigi okey okey
Yes because it is funny.
I still think this game is way better than Ttyd, but I agree that the battle system could be better. Hopefully the Ttyd remake fixes some of the issues I have with that game.
Mentally ill
Least toxic paper Mario fan @@bartsneezin
Sad that the paper mario series is just the sticker mario series now
I borrowed a copy from my local library. I got as far as the water temple, and rage quit. Bobby only served to piss me off. I constantly had to drop what I was doing to find him after the game kept arbitrarily removing him from my party. I was officially DONE when I finally got the temple doors open, and saw him refrain from joining me. What a useless, lazy piece of junk! If I had known he was going to die, I'd have laughed at Nintendo for trying to make me feel bad for an annoying character. It's like George Lucas thinking people would like JarJar Binks.
This game blows.
With the brand and other limitations nintendo put on IS, they found workarounds to do fun things nintendo doesn't want them to pretty well. Like it's not a great game but it deserves respect for what it does in circumstance
Because it isn’t ttyd, that’s mean it’s bad!!1!
I hate the ring battle system.
blaming miyamoto is so 2017 and outdated and actually just wrong
That was definitely more of a joke than an actual accusation. I went over Miyamoto's role in the series' direction more seriously in my Sticker Star video.
36:06 Please don't bring up BotW; it's just simply a horrid game that does serious disservice to such a great franchise, abandoning practically everything that made Legend of Zelda so fun to go through, in order to add features and mechanics that only serve to hinder and frustrate the player.
Like, removing dungeons is a major misstep, as is making every weapon and shield so extremely fragile, and the limited stamina forcing the player to baby a completely arbitrary gauge. Not to mention the lack of map markers making finding stuff to do hit-and-miss and needlessly frustrating, how lacklustre the Divine Beasts are as dungeon replacements, how Shrines all look the same and how it's impossible to max out both Hearts and stamina, how the existence of spirit orbs means there are zero Heart Pieces, the severe lack of exploration tools that _actual_ Legend of Zelda games have in droves (no Hookshot or Clawshot, no Skull Hammer, no Iron Boots, nothing), the rampant sexism present in Gerudo Town that never gets resolved or rescinded for the player unlike Ocarina of Time (instead forcing the player to bloody crossdress; ugh), the worst incarnation of Zelda ever...
Yeah, BotW is simply horrid. Hopefully we get a return to form after TotK.
Did it return to form?
@@Tetragramix Nintendo hasn't yet announced the next Legend of Zelda game, as of 2 Dec 2023, so it's impossible to know yet.
Hopefully the next game moves away from the frustrating, and over-done, open-world format and returns to what the franchise has done best for 30 years now.
Wow, to have someone complain about breaking formulas and doing their own thing
@@mcpics4448 I wouldn't have minded BotW/TotK so much if it was a one-time spin-off, but when their unearned success means Nintendo's not likely to return to the *good* formula for the foreseeable future...yeah, I feel justified in disliking games *I have actually played and finished and not enjoyed in the slightest* - when I've also played plenty of the old classics.
If Nintendo was developing classic and open-world in turn (BotW, followed by classic, followed by TotK, followed by classic, etc.), and thereby giving fans of the classic formula something to look forward to and enjoy, then I wouldn't be as upset.
@@PokeMaster22222 still feel like surface level complaints man like come on, I see a lot of complaints however, that the lack of traditional dungeons is a negative aspect of the game. But they spent a lot of time working on the overworld, so of course they would want to maximize how much time the player explores it.
Given BotW's design as a "go anywhere, do anything, at anytime" with “appreciating nature” style of game, traditional zelda dungeons just don't fit within that philosophy. Dungeons are normally a place of progression within the game. You advance in the story, you get a new weapon, gain more experience, etc. BotW's progression system is more exploration based, instead of stifling progression with multiple dungeons.
I can understand why that may be disappointing, but it doesn't make BotW, or the franchise, any worse off because of it.
Best chapter was glitzville by far