G&E Shaper New Oil and Run In
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- I discuss the oil recommended to run in these machines from G&E, and how to figure out the proper viscosity depending on the SUS specs given.
For my shaper I went with Multi-Purpose Machine Oil 100 purchased from McMaster-Carr. This oil has the proper SUS and viscosity required to allow proper lubrication of the sliding ways and gearing.
So we top off the crankcase and get the shaper fired back up! I'll give you the first looks at the crank and gearing inside during operation. I also do some adjusting on the sight oilers for the ram ways.
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I can see why that machine got so full of yuck in the sump. That huge open hole at the bottom of the ram when it is back is just asking for dirt debris and chips to fall down into the sump. I wonder is there something missing there? Maybe a guard could be added to help seal it up. 22:14 you can see the daylight thru the side of the machine under the ram.
There is a rubber shield there under the ram for helping to block the opening, but I'm planning on revisiting that as another upgrade soon. I'm sure I can make a new one that will be a better fit.
SAE 30 oil makes the world go round. Thanks, I learned a lot. I now understand how the raped revers works.
No no, ISO 100 now.
Great video! I finally understand how a shaper works after seeing inside one.
I totally would have watched as you poured all 8 gallons of that oil in :) I was sharing the moment.
You still make me miss David Richards' OLD TIME STEAM POWERED MACHINE SHOP when you play his intro song. But, I enjoy learning from you all the same & really appreciate your current series on the scraper. Thank you for taking the time to show the belly of the beast in motion with the oil system spraying away!
Instead of pinching the copper tube on the oiler you could put a needle valve so you can have more control over the oil flow
I agree. Un-pinching a tube would be a big problem! Two thumbs up!
I love how you take the time to fix it properly
well worth it, he did a good job on his mill (though that did have an issue to fix too) and its turned out well
I now know more about the inards of a big metal shaper than 99% of the rest of the world!
I would buy a thick piece of perspex and use that as the cover plate so you can still see the inner workings when its covered up! Excellent video as always!
I don't think I will ever lust after a shaper but between you Stefan and Steve it might happen! I'm glad you are taking us armchair folks along on getting the G&E running. It looks like it will be fun to see working in the future.
Plenty of them out there hiding that need good homes.
What an incredible (and incredibly well made machine) - it's a pleasure to watch it run and see it given it the care it deserves.
I believe part of the reason everything is in such good shape is that impressive oiling system. It's simple, but incredibly well thought out and executed. Not many modern machines better it. I wondered about the fast return stroke and knew it had something to do with the bull wheel ratio, but it's such an elegantly simple arrangement I hadn't figured it out. They just took the inherent fulcrum change of the variable stroke ram drive and used it to their advantage. Thanks for showing us how it works, and please go thru the rest of the machine when you have time and explain each system.
I was the guy that suggested the tube was pinched off by an operator who got tired of cleaning up oil, and it seems I may have hit the mark there.
You may want to install a small brass valve in the left front way line so you can finely adjust the flow there. You could just cut the line below the sight glass and put in a compression needle valve. A few of those valves strategically placed around the machine may let you fine tune the oiling to where it doesn't drip too much and still gets adequate lubrication.
Congratulations on reviving such a great piece of living history. I completely understand your motivation for wanting to own a machine many view as obsolete. There's something about the ingenious way our fathers and grandfathers created machinery from cast iron and hard work. It got the job done with distinction long before the computer was the easy way.
Remember our freedom was won with such machines, and many of those old machines made the munitions that secured the worlds freedom. Maybe you could call her "Rosie" after Rosie the riveter?
I can't wait until you put the 1st big block of steel on her.
Yep, good oiling system is the life of a machine. We see many gearboxes at work that have oiling systems and sprayers similar to this machine that keep the gears and bearings fully oiled all of the time.
Thanks Adam. What a well designed machine and so beautifully illustrated with your well lighted camera work. This is one of your very best. Can't wait to see those chips rolling off.
Adam - Thanks for the oil viscosity lesson. Next step is creating metal chips. Can't wait!
GOD bless McMaster-Carr, Adam. I've been a faithful customer since 1992. Every time I would talk to someone from there, I would tell them how great a job they do. Thanks again for great content, Adam.
reminds me of the old clapper block we used in high school in the 1980's , as our teacher said its old but has a purpose , ours was a cincinatti , watched the teacher demonstrate the ammount of cut you could take with it , it could make some nice thick blue curled chips and shook the floor when he did it ( he worked in industry so he knew what its limits was ) ,
I made my cross pein hammer and parallel clamps on it ( still have both ) , I about cried when I found out our old high school got rid of all the machine shop equipment ( didn't sell it but scrapped it ) when they built a new building in the early 00's as they went towards a college prep education , most of the equipment was donated by industry around the area , now they are finding out there is a need for trades people and not just cnc stuff and have to buy all new stuff . happy to see you keeping the old school stuff alive .
Adam I really enjoy watching how you care for your machines. You really did your 'due diligence' in researching the oil. I bet that machine will run for a good long time under that kind of care. Enjoy it!
Great result Adam, ready for the next 50 years. Pre 1970's oils varied substantially in quality, chemistry, lubricity etc, each manufacturer/reseller would buy a base oil and sell as their own brand, hence wide variety. Ambient temperature also contributes to viscosity ref ISO/ASTM, for southern US or warmer climates, a heavier grade may be an option (150), and can reduce machine noise. Also, having tramp oil spilling from machine tools was accepted, but now frowned upon/illegal; so older machines/manufacturing relocated to developing countries. Several European countries have extremely strict controls on this, with machines having to installed in a sealed bund (normally a steel fabricated tray). I am not familiar with US regulations in this respect, but the few states I have installed total loss systems allowed this. The introduction of "Slide Way/ Way Lubes" with tackifiers were a great step forward, my J & S surface grinder has an ISO 32 spec, higher grades up to 320 are excellent, especially for vertical ways. Great channel/video.
I just love the toys you play with. I went 20 plus years with a chinese benchtop lathe but last year I sold it and got a clausing 12 x 24 lathe and a Excello mill 9 x 42. Three phase was easy to do and there is nothing like REAL tools. Thanks.
When I was a kid, I got one running in a shop just to do one job. I had problems because the oil had congealed, (turned to a sort of jelly|), in some of the tubing. Once running, it had little needle valves, (I don't know what you call them in the USA), in the secondary lubrication lines, so you could tune the oil flow with a screwdriver. We got the spares I needed from Tecalemit. These days I think their present TD1 is an example.
Wonderful job on the machine - it looks great.
I'm a retired painter from an automotive manufacturing plant. Every batch of paint that we mixed, we had to test the viscosity using a Zahn viscosity cup. You should look into buying one. Its cheap and a great tool. A quick way to check the viscosity of any liquid. It will also help you determine if it's time to change the oil in your machines.
Love your videos quick tip, keep the spout at the top when using a 5 gallon bucket and it won't glugg
Plain to see quality built american machine, with clean oil should last several life times. Thanks for showing us Adom !! Mark
What a beautiful piece of machinery and engineering. Watching the crank assembly in motion is amazing. McMaster-Carr carries a bunch of precision flow-adjustment valves, you could modify the plumbing for the oil distribution system and install some needle valves or similar to allow you to more precisely fine tune the oiling flow rates to each felt-packed oil well on the machine. I have a suspicion that G&E was actually responsible for the pinched off oil lines and that was sort of an engineering correction on the fly. It appears that the pressure and flow volume to the front left corner oil well up on the ram section is higher than the rest of the ram distribution system due to something relating to the way it's plumbed, and pinching off the line was their simple "fix" from the beginning. If it were my machine, I'd install flow-adjustment valves in the lines to all the oil wells and then fit the output side of the oil lines with some rubber hose temporarily to allow me to fill a graduated cylinder and measure the flow rate at each well with the pipe wide open, and then tune all of them to be the same exact flow rate so its oiled equally at all 4 corners. Also I'd venture to guess that with the oiling system flowing so much oil up to the ram there isn't enough back-pressure to divert adequate flow to the knee, which may be why you're seeing such a slow fill in that well. Again something that may be solved by being able to precisely adjust the oiling flow rates to each branch of the system. I suppose with some trial and error you could achieve the same results with the line pinch method. Maybe I'm just way too meticulous for my own good? Anyway, thanks for making such great content, I can't recall how long I've been subscribed now, but I wasn't even half way into one of your videos before I subscribed. You sir are a master machinist, a gentleman, and an excellent content creator. I know there's been some "criticism" lately over how your videos are made, but keep on being you and making them the way you want. That's part of what makes your channel so unique and special. I've enjoyed the ride of the G&E Shaper so far and I'm sure I will continue to do so. Can't wait to see some chips!
Thanks Professor Adam 😜. Know a darned sight more about oil viscosity and specifications than I did only a half hour ago. 👍
Information, entertainment, travel and culture .… AND no small amount of education thrown in for good measure, too. 😎
I have to confess it's some 50-odd years since I was let loose on a Myford lathe ( back in the day of my schooldays) So I would definitely NOT consider myself a machinist .… not by any stretch of the imagination. But that doesn't stop me from being very interested, thoroughly enjoying and being educated in no small way by your videos .… ALL of them.
Just keep on doing what you're doing, Adam (and not forgetting the lovely Abbey, too). And Boy! .… hasn't your shop come one heckuva long way in a pretty short time frame. Thanks, Adam. 👍👍
I would totaly get a plexiglas cover made for that side panel and watch that all day :)
hypnotic..
Congradulations on getting the shaper running. I've been meaning to comment for awhile and haven't, but you can use round acylic rod to make correct appearing oiling sight plugs for your machine. Fishkeepers use acylic all the time to construct fish tanks with simple carbide woodworking tools. You should be able to chuck up a peice and turn it.
Hey Adam, ive been completely addicted to your channel for the past 2 weeks... I just cant stop watching... Ive watched probably 80% of your videos, and have learned SO much! i inherited my Grandpa's lathe when he passed away, and he had a toolbox of stuff that went with it. I had no idea what over half the stuff in the toolbox was until I started watching your videos. Now im cutting threads, grinding my own tools, setting micrometers, using my tools properly, etc. I cant even begin to describe all I have learned from you. Thank you for making these videos Adam! I really do appreciate it! Im finally putting my Grandpa's lathe to good use!
Excellent video Adam. You need to make a cover for the side out of a thick piece of lexan. Watching the inter workings is the best part.
Good lesson on oil viscosity. I didn't know any of that stuff.
Hey Adam, glad to see you took the time to learn a little about oil identification. That oil is pretty close to what would be spec'd for a headstock, very light additive treat, rust and mild antiwear .
lubrication training is great, once you learn a bit, it cab never be taken away from you, and valuable knowledge it is, because a small mistake done in good intentions can do terrible damage to equipment, cheers!
Yep, I love learning new things that will help me out in the shop.
Awesome video Adam, how good it is to see someone who appreciates the importance of using the correct oil for any given application. Good machinery definately deserves the right oil. Love watching the internals of that shaper!
I'd much rather prefer to use the recommended oil then the random oil that a few have been suggestions.
At 21.18 Adam your face was an absolute picture of joy... it warmed my heart to see you so happy man. Well done Sir you deserve the long use of this shaper and you're looking good on the diet side too. Please say hello to Abby for me, I look forward to learning what this "Monster" will do.great video as usual.
Thanks Duncan!
Good job Adam! The velocity profile of the shaper ram is fascinating, never really thought about it before. Getting fancy with the next episode trailers :)
Super neat.....these older machines like to bleed oil. That is how they really keep from wearing out. As one said...I'm okay with seeing oil ... at least it is getting oil. There are huge pumps back in the day....that had oil pans build in to catch the drippings. The oil that bleeds out...is cheap oil...compared to repairing worn parts. Adam....you might want to fab a stainless steel pan big enough to set the machine on (in) with a 1/2" lip...it would keep the shop floor clean. Use the pig mat or floor dry to keep the pan clean....Thank you for sharing and keep up the GREAT work. TF
And he could use his new plasma cutter to cut it, and new welder to weld it up!
I'm really enjoying this series. Can't wait to see first chips!
That is so cool to see this machine working, man that's a huge piece of casting moving like that. Great video series.
I love the old machines because they are very well buld from heart.
This was satisfying like the K&T rebuild was satisfying. Fortunately, the shaper was less work for you. It's a beautiful machine. Thanks for sharing the images from the books too.
Absolutely fascinating seeing the internals of the G&E. It always amazes me how so many varied mechanical motions can be achieved with simple gears and cranks. I've got to say that your skills as a videographer are right up there with "This Old Tony" as the best on youtube. Thanks Adam for all the great videos.
This Old Tony makes some fine content and video!
It is incomprehensible why anyone would give this video a thumbs down. Seeing the insides of this machine working is like seeing a real live dinosaur or watching the pyramids being built.
Adam, thanks for sharing all of this useful information and the video of the internals and how everything works. It's awesome to see these old machines functioning and getting the commentary on the how's, what's and everything. Thanks again!
Great job, with all of the breaking in and adjusting it's good you have extra oil. Instead of pinching the oil line get a small screw (that just fits the tube) and cut a slit down the threads. To adjust the flow just tighten or loosen the screw. Similar to the needle valve on a FRL.
I really love this old machinery. Really nice to see someone keep it in real good shape.
Splendid video Adam! Wonderful to see it running and looking forward to chips.
Adam, very cool machine. I have a very small machine I am restoring.
I did want to mention MrPete222 made a video on how that ram works. He made a wooden cut out and demonstrated why the ram moves faster on the return than power stroke. I just went back and found the video, it was SHOP TIPS#172. not pluggin his site, but it was very helpful for me to understand how the shaper works.
Thanks for bringing me along. I love old machines.
That's a neat machine. I agree with making a clear cover for the side, some internal led lights would be cool too.
Really interesting stuff. That old machine really has a character. So satisfying to see you to finally get her up and running.
Music to my ears and I could watch it run all day! Good Job Adam!
Adam,
Find a sheet metal shop to bend ya up containment pan to go under the machine.
Exactly. That's what I did for my G&E
Intensely satisfying, I think shapers have always been a favourite machine. So relaxing.
Interesting to see the trade names of the oils, some of which are still in use today.
it just made me happy to see oil squirtin' on all those shaper gears !
AWESOME seeing the old girl chooch! My uncle was a machinist and he acquired a shaper. He doted on his shaper also! You're in good company my friend!
That was cool Adam watching the internals in operation and that things got an Abomb size vice, can't wait to see it put to use.
I'm really enjoying this series. It's a really beautiful machine and your 'THE MAN' for the job of making it run smooth and work hard. Thanks for taking us all along for the ride :o)
I think you are right on the pinched tube-ends to reduce oil flow. It will also balance out the oil flow to the rest. I guess you’ll have some tweaking to do.
I admire your skillset Adam. Thank you for sharing
Adam,
Thanks for taking us into the belly of the beast. Good luck getting the oil flow regulated. It shouldn't be too hard.
I can hardly wait to see some chips coming off your work piece. Thanks for your video!
Have a good one!
Dave
Brilliant explanation. The opening size is critical in measuring viscosity. Lovely name for the oil. And I am excited to see the oil going in. What fun. Beautiful, what a wonderful thing to show the diagram of the crank and slider. Wonderful engineering. I enjoyed this a whole lot.
Adam, just like my series 3 land rover so long as it's leaking oil you know it's still got some.
Nice job, need to save these oldies. Sweet machine. Love the inside view also.
you need a drip pan, the big honker i ran years ago had a stainless pan under the whole machine.... otherwise she going to spit some oil to the floor.
Great way to start my day...coffee and shaper...thanks Adam
Same here
Sounds like a good morning!
Third. Nothing is more interesting than watching the workings of intricate machinery and imagining how the engineers put it all together...thanks for sharing
Agreed! McMaster is great! Our business has used them for decades, and NEVER an issue.. fantastic selection.. I always support a ‘plug’ for them,
Just a great business that is reliable and on time!
Hey it would be cool to have a Perspex cover and a couple of LED lights inside so you can watch the crank when it’s working
Hi Adam
I am sharing your excitement for your new machine and we can all understand your excitement and it shows, great video have some fun man. I have an old Alba 1A 10inch shaper don't know exactly how old but if I had to guess I would say about late forties but it works well, just had to cut a new feed nut and its back in work.
I worked in manufacturing in machine maintenance for 28 years. I serviced many types of machines. Presses, metal shearing, saws, lathes, mills, both vertical and horizontal. We had to learn all that lingo about oil viscosity and types of oil. Thanks Adam for bringing back those memories for me, it’s all very interesting.
Nice job Adam! I could watch that action inside that thing forever, that's really cool!
Learned a lot today. I told my wife, "man, I've been waiting with baited breath for this!" Then you said, "I know you've been waiting for this!" HAHHA too cool. I think that's called a scotch link: the crank and wheel. Those old engineers were brilliant to come up with these machines.... Thanks for the update!
Crazy cool, Adam! Love your teaching style and your passion for keeping "old" tools alive!
I spent my Saturday night watching Adam pour oil out of a bucket. Don’t be jealous!
Congratulations on your new “WORK TOY”!!!!!
Adam look up "scotch yoke" for the physics of the internal drive, it's been around a long time, but I can still sit and watch it operate. Mahalo for your time and work, keep them coming.
This is a great video so far. Even as an engineer, this is a murky topic. Very cool!! You are lucky to work with a LOT of smart people at Motion!
Brian Streufert And the people at Motion are lucky to work with Adam. It works out well for everyone.
This whole series has been a great peek at some fantastic old school iron. I look forward to seeing you using this shaper for some of your regular jobs.
Great video. I love all of them to be honest. You've inspired me to get an old table saw I have operational again. Nothing near the complexity of the G&E shaper, but for a non-machinest guy like me, it is a fun project and very satisfying to bring it back to life.
I love this series. It's literally like going to school, to a school I enjoy. Seeing the step by steps of assessing an old machine and preparing it. Seeing the oiling system, how to remove the oil, what type of oil it needs, how to look at the machine and balance the amount of oil that it actually needs on the ram, etc. Thanks a lot! I thoroughly enjoy it as I have very little experience with things like these.
Beautiful! So glad you’ve got it up and running.
The brilliant, heavy duty engineering going on there reminds me of steam locomotives. Huge weight, perfect stable movement and simple but clever mechanisms.
Thanks for sharing Adam 👍🏻⚙️🔧
I've listened to you relate your Dad's opinion about the economics of a shaper, as well as other similar opinions (some on Facebook). But DAMN, if you like cool machinery, it doesn't get much sweeter than that machine!
Hi Adam - your book said 60ml, not 100ml. (4:28) Don't know if you noticed afterward. Could you add some little valves to the oil feed lines to fine tune the flow to the oiling points? Would be easier to adjust than pinching the copper open/closed.
Looking at the gearbox inside reminds me of the amazing engineering/inventions that are designed and put to work.
Adam, Congrats!
I was thinking you had purchased a lemon, but I was wrong. Nice job getting this back in operation! I just subscribed to your channel. I almost never subscribe to anything. Thanks for the videos. Can't wait to see some new chips.
I could watch the belly of the beast all day! Awesome video, learned a lot about oil and viscosity today. Thank you.
Good one really enjoyed seeing how the inside worked. I was wondering if you would be able to get a shot or if the oil would go everywhere. Thanks for the effort you have taken getting the video's
Will
Great video's sir! I really enjoy learning about machining from your channel.
Stunning. With correct maintenance, designed to last several lifetimes. Oiling system is unreal. My baby 8" Boxford is oil can everywhere, no pressure feed oil pump. Shapers drink oil like a wino with a bottle of the hard stuff. LOVE shapers...
In 50 years of being around scratch mills (shapers) that is the first clean one I've ever seen.
If you pour out a 5 gallon bucket through the nozzle, rotate the bucket so the nozzle is on top and it will come out in a steady stream.
You know that seems to be bothering a bunch of you
Im always learning something new watching your channel.. thank you for taking the time to show and explain everything that you do.👍👍👍
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation of how the crank moves the arm. I always wondered how that worked. Superb video as always Adam.
2 thoughts--have the pail outlet at the top when starting to pour so air can get in to allow more and controlled flow; as suggested small needle valves in the oil lines would be a simple and convenient way to throttle the oil flow. I think these can be bought but can be easily made.
Alternatively, for the fill stage, punch an air hole in the lid opposite the pour opening. It doesn't even have to be too large.
Thanks for showing us inside the machine! I love to see well-lubed machines!
Good Work Adam. It is always fun watching a machine come to life. Thanks for sharing.
Gary 75-Year-Old Home Shop Machinist in North West Arkansas
Adam - Again I believe those metal oiler tubes are pinched off at a calibrated size to control oil flow - think of an older cars windshield washer nozzle with a similar tube, they were pinched off in the same way as your shapers oiler nozzles, they should put out a very small pinpoint like stream, just enough to keep the packing wet and maintain a film on the mating surfaces with as little over flow as possible. Im not a machinist just an ex mechanic, but it reminds me of the old style windshield washer nozzles and I saw a very similar oiling arrangement on an old brake lathe I operated many years ago. Is it possible the nozzles are still obtainable, im guessing not. What a very cool old school machine, makes me wish I had become a machinist instead of wrenching on cars and working in factories-lol
Adam, that machine is a true work of art... WORK of art...! Thank.... You....!
That is so cool how it operates! I like the sneak preview of the next episode. Stay tuned for more.
Rather than pinching the tube you could install a valve inline which would give you more control. For that matter you could install a whole valve set for the oil lines which would let you manage the flow.
I have seen people consult Exxon to get machine requirements or to get Exxon Mobil oils equivalent to different brands, for instance, um, Shell, I think it is that they use in Europe. Good to see McMaster doing a great job.
Gosh, what an oiling system! That wiper on the strainer would be hundreds of dollars as an add on. Wonderful manual too! As a mechanic, my take on nomenclature is that your oil viscosity is called SAE 30, (30 wt), and ISO 100 (not 100 wt) same viscosity, different names). It is amazing how much viscosity changes with temperature, even with multi-grade oils (10w30) resisting temperature/viscosity changes only somewhat better than single viscosity oils.
Awesome Adam, who doesn’t love s shaper. Great work.
Job well done the thirst for knowledge should drive every one, as we know it's your motivational drive. Looking forward to the first chips..
Gotta Love Midweek Abom!