Before the Federation : Kahless and a callous Klingon Empire
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- We will be discussing Part 1 of the Klingon Empire Before the Federation. A lot of this will be a discussion of Kahless and if the Klingon Empire is Callous or not. Let me know what you guys think..
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I like the non-canon book Kahless that deconstructs the character.
A monk finds scrolls written by Kahless himself, which put a whole new spin on the legend. Since Kahless II’s memories are based on the official scripture, he resents the implication that they are a lie. According to the scrolls, Kahless was one of Molor’s most loyal lieutenants. Until honor forced him to challenge and kill Molor’s son. He and his men then had to flee. If it wasn’t for his friend Morath, Kahless wouldn’t have cared enough to start a rebellion. Then Molor’s forces attacked and wiped out the village of Kahless’s lover. At one point, Kahless leaves his men, Morath follows him. They return a week later, and the men compose the legend of Kahless fighting Morath because of a lie. Kahless has a dream where his dead lover shows him the picture of a bat’leth and tells him to do what legends will say he did (take lava and mold it by hand). He just draws it for the local blacksmith to make. The rebellion grows, and he and Morath eventually storm the palace only to find a sick man waiting for them instead of the strong warrior Molor was. Kahless lets his guard down, and Molor throws a dagger at him. Morath jumps in front of it, dying as a result. Kahless decapitates the tyrant and takes his place. Eventually, he grows weary of ruling and leaves. When the people ask him where he’s going, he randomly points to a star and says to find him there. He then leaves and writes the real account of his life before burying it and disappearing from history.
Klingons would eventually build a monastery at that star and use the blood on the dagger to clone Kahless. Actually, if the story is true, then Kahless II is really the clone of Morath, which is fitting since he was the truly honorable one.
dont forget the war with the tribbles! see ds9 trouble with tribbles
+Wayne Wheeler that's battle break down worthy
brilliant lol cant wait!
Lore Reloaded and the Hur'q invasion isn't? Just saying.
@@tonebonebgky2 what is the Hur'q are tribbles?! Klingons were just too ashamed to admit it.
The Great Tribble Hunt!!!
I kinda think the Klingons suing for peace is inline with their behavior. They have never lived up to their own hype about their honour.
The Klingons are violent, not suicidal... The Vulcans were slaughtering them every time they crossed paths. It wasn't an honorable battle most times, it was a bloodbath... They clearly were outmatched by the klingons, so they sued for peace, focusing their efforts on foes they COULD beat, and buliding strength to fight the Vulcans another day. Honestly, that was the only believable part of Discovery...
Lore Reloaded doesn't like this piece of the lore because it was out of character for Vulcans not the Klingons. That strategy was highly illogical and out of character for Vulcans.
It does make some sense though, if the Vulcans took time to study the Klingons and came to understand that sense of honour and the Klingon culture, they would come to the logical conclusion that if they were to see an end to the conflict, they needed to strike first, gaining the respect of the Klingons, as they would then see the Vulcans as an honourable foe, although this is admittedly a stretch, and the Vulcans are established as preferring to go the route of diplomacy and peace, and avoiding open conflict.
@@ImperatorKernow Indeed, the fact is, if as first strike will reduce the likelyhood of tragic bloodshed down the road, why woul;dn't you take it?
also it is indicated that at some point they did, but as often happens some power hungry characters take over and some of them would alter honourable slowly it goes to nasty
When I saw the episode “the sword of Khaless”, I thought in my own head canon, that maybe the Hur’q might have used the wormhole, or perhaps they had access to Iconian gateway technology. We know their gateways were in the gamma quadrant. Just my own thought. Enjoyed the video
It's been said that Klingon technology is not really theirs but it belonged to their invaders.
OOOOO Stargate SG-1 that should be fun! I've rewatched many episodes of that recently with my dad, so many memories from my childhood and early-mid teenhood.
+BadwolfGamer I didn't find anything like that..That's interesting though..I'll have to take a look
Yea I have heard that. It sort comes hand in hand with the line that Klingon technology is odd. Instead of using deuterium/anti-deuterium intermix, they use tritium/anti-tritium intermix for example.
That was also one of the main reasons they could adapt their ships so easily to the Breen EDW while the Feds and RSE couldn’t, till they had a copy...
Captain, engineering here. You could let years and stardates stay little longer on screen. Mayby sometimes put timeline on screen.
This is all Awesome History I did not Know of Before, Thanks Lore.
One of the books, I think it was Ishmael, says that the Klingon Empire Took over from the Karsid Empire. The Klingons were being employed as low tech mercenaries and eventually overthrew the Karsids. At that point they basically inherited the Karsid Empire and practically overnight went from a pre-warp civilization to a major power. They didn't develop the technology on their own and never went through the phase of abandoning war in favor of cooperation. Just tossing it out there, not saying anybody is wrong.
That moment you realize hearing the name Hur'Q being pronounced sounds like someone throwing up...
the hurq were created by the founders but became too aggressive so the founders abandoned them.
The Hur'q weren't created by the Founders, but discovered by the founders, who attempted to harness the Hur'q's military potential, unfortunately, them stripping the Hur'q homeworld of their "Ketracel White Precursor" ended up resulting in the hur'q becoming uncontrollable. At least, that is going by STO lore.
@@ImperatorKernow or thats what STO tells us.
Awesome video. Love it when I can watch a new Klingon video
I'm looking forward to part two.
I have the book kahless it was better then expected. Kahless was merciful to nonwarriors. Kind of creating a chivalry among the Klingons. During a time when warlords taxed people to death , or gave them death. Kahless freed the people from an oppressive rule. Allowing non warriors to live in peace by fighting anyone who was a warrior. and not with them.
Vulcans had to have some basic Warp tech for a faction of the Vulcan people to leave and form the Romulan Star empire hundreds of years away. All of this thousands of years ago.
Enterprise already established Vulcans were Warp-capable far longer than humans hence why they were more advanced.
I never understood why the Klingons were pissed at Archer for bringing back the courier and helping them out.
They where, he got out from an encounter because T'Pol I think mentioned what he did for the empire.
This is a great video thank you
Well, the Klingons weren't touchy feely people!
What about the Hur'q invasion
+BattlestarZenobia assuming I have enough information..going to break that down individually.. It is mentioned in the video
Lore Reloaded hello plz do a vid about star treck online
Or the jem'hars0dor
Lore Reloaded that's because I commented before finishing watching the video
Ye Klingon gods, the sarcophagus ship seems to be of this origin
What about the attack on the Wookiees?
The Herq was recently introduced in Star Trek Online. While not canonical, it may hold some insight
The Klingons probably had a ternary counting system at the time of the 1st century. I find it unlikely that they had warp at that time. Rather, I think it's more likely that they acquired warp after the Hur'q pillaged Qo'noS.
a lot of people seem to have that theory - It's not out of the realm at all.
Honour is basically just a word for the Klingons, lets face it they are probably one of the least honourable species in the alpha quadrant
Today we have more explantaion of the Hur´Q attack, because of the Dominon Episodes STO.
Yeah, the new episodes on sto explain how they all came about in detail.
Knowing klingons exaggerate their stories I suspect the garrison or at least the bravest remained with khaless but told the story about them so the klingon people will respect and admire them.
+Sergio Milho i wouldn't be surprised...that's why I used words like 'mythos' and 'legend'
In the Enterprise episode the ancient Vulcan Messiah tells Archer the take 1800 years putting the travel to the storms after the nuclear war nuclear war in ancient times
I dont see how the Klingons could have had warp drive in the 1st century. I assume it came after the Hurq invasion
Yea, I would put my money on the 9th century probably. It's possible they had it in the 1st century, but that would mean they had warp drive before even the Vulcans - whom were one of the first.. I can't see things playing out the same way had the Klingons had it first.
Lore Reloaded also one of those things and plot holes in Trek. If they had this technology for 2000 years before humans. How have we caught up in such a short span of time.
it is mentioned in ds9 that khales did forge the butlet out of his back hair.. the are so many holes in the klingon war and the time line is so stretched and inaccurate.. its sad the didnt try harder. but the lore master here for the rescue. he will save us, who are tied to lore, logic and time line. thank you so much lore master.
He could have used his hair to provide carbon for steel, and used water from that lake to quench the blade.
@Lore Reloaded I can't seem to find the follow-up on this. Am I missing it or does it not exist?
Correction, the Hurq invaded the Klingon Empire from the Gamma quadrant through the BETA quadrant. The klingons have no or relatively small territory in the Alpha quadrant.
wait the Hurq are used in the new expansion of Star trek online Lore Reloaded
Isn't it Canon that the klingons got their technology from the hurq invasion and slowly developed it over time to become a warp civilization more recently.. Also wasn't there a TNG episode that showed a stray klingon battle cruiser that had disappeared with the crew in stasis coming from a time in the 22nd or 23rd century when their warp technology was low and were sent on a combat mission against starfleet that would take too long if they were awake for the trip. So they were in stasis and just never woke up and wandered through space thinking they were still at war with starfleet and worf on the enterprise had to tell them different?
Why do you have such a problem with the Vulcan Hello. It makes perfect logical sense given what we know of Klingons and Vulcans.
Vulcans recognized a violent bully and established that they were able to hit harder. Forcing the Klingons to humble themselves and ask for peace means the Klingon would avoid future conflicts to avoid future defeats and humility.
a lot of it is me having a bit of a lark - I don't think it's logical nor agree with it - it makes no sense (to me) as presented. If you think it works - then that's fine.. no big. We can agree to disagree on it.
+Ray Adler
Klingons don't humble themselves. Klingons love fighting and dying in battle is the greatest achievement a klingon could have. Fighting everyday is the klingon's idea of heaven. To find a worthy opponent and die fighting them is what every klingon dreams of. If the vulcans fired first that's a challenge to the death. There would be no peace until one side is wiped out.
Lore Reloaded. It makes sense because we see it work many times throughout Klingon interactions. Riker does something similar to establish his place on a Klingon ship. Worf regularly asserts himself through violence when goaded by other Klingons.
I doubt that anything Burnham could have done would have prevented the battle as the Klingons were there specifically to fight its likely that the Federation taking the offensive would have undermined T'Kuvma,s rhetoric and the houses would not have come together for an extended war.
+DrewLSsix
There is a method to klingon violence it's very ritualized. If you fire first without provocation, the Klingons would fight you to the death. If you defend yourself honorably a klingon will respect you. But attacking in klingon space without provcation that's a challenge to the death.
TentaclePentacle could you provide some citation for that, because it's one of the only actions that rang true, that instead of letting them fire first, which according to you means they intend to fight to the death you fire first. In your world the Klingons would not have ever built an empire, only ever responding to aggression and never being aggressors.
I think that the Klingons didn’t start space travel until after the Hurq invasion. That makes sense with the technology they have.
that's a widely accepted theory for sure.
If it weren't for the Hur'Q, the Klingons would have remained agrarians whose only notable achievements would be in the realm of epic poetry.
"Or kull the conqueror."
We aren't told what the Hur'q look like so is it a possibility that the Hur'q were the ones that built the hubs that the Borg used before being assimilated by the borg?
To be honest, the problem with Quark is that he will give you information for free but if you want the "correct" information well......how much gold pressed latinum do you have?
indeed!
The Klingons are a noble and violent people...but they have fascinating "mating rituals". *pokes TNG Worf's explanation of mate calling* Fortunately for Earth, humans are ridiculously adept at outsciencing everyone - including Vulcans. I imagine ST-universe's human future as the "United Federation of Ascended Ancient Species", on a Q level. That said, I find it somewhat surprising that the Klingons ever got as far as they did given their disdain for ANYONE who does engineering or science. But, it was obvious the council was ok with whatever gave them better warriors and warships, so I guess there was a home for them - even if they were publicly mocked.
The Klinglons stole warp tech from the Hur'q didn't they? I know I read that somewhere. And when Dax and Worf got married Martok's wife said Khaless created the first Batleth when he fought the Molor. I have to re-watch that episode to be sure.
I'm not really counting "Discovery" as part of the main Star Trek history anymore.
+J Garza God I wish I could do that for these videos :p
J Garza. Right, because all the other contradictions and inconsistencies so far dont count.
J Garza and who are you?
Well said Mr Garza !
J Garza again who are you to make that determination? You can believe the Earth is flat. Doesnt make it true.
I don't think that the whole "Vulcan hello" idea is that bad - Vulcans would surely hear after the incident where their ship was destroyed about Klingon honour culture and would thus draw the conclusion that respect needs to be earned through a show of strength, as in the pilot of Discovery we see that the Klingons despise perceived weakness.
Sable according to Spock in their pre-Surak days the Vulcan response to attacking an enemy and them not counter attacking was to invade and conquer them. Might have had something to do with that.
::: honor brought order to the klingon chaos an anarchy. so he did something right.
the big issue with the Klingon history is that the writers never wanted to expand on them. They were meant to me a villain for Kirk, that's it. When TNG came out, they scrambled to fill in holes. By DS9, the writers just threw in little tad-bits of information for the sake of the story. We may never get a real telling of their history unless they make a Klingon series.
kahlees created the weapon inspired by his 3 generals to create the flag of the klingons
+Questão olavo Oh? Sorry I missed that :/
thats ok just dont give me the vulcan hello lol
th-cam.com/video/5UMTtONwuCw/w-d-xo.html
I don’t actually think the Klingons discovered warp :/
Yeah they learned how warp engines worked from ones they seized
Good video but I always thought the Hur'q were defeated in the end by the klingons and that was the reason they stopped the invasion of Q'onos
All of the resources I read and corroborated stated they left after pillaging the planet - if I'm wrong, I'll do an update video.
Ok then you should be right I guess... I just remembered it to be a little different. Keep it up 👍
DS9 episodes The Sword of Kahless. And plus it’s in the book Star Trek the next-generation KAHLESS. I can’t believe you actually asked you don’t know your trek do you hahahaha.
The book wouldn't be canon. And ok to the rest.. I suppose if missing that makes me a fraud..there we go..
*Then STD came along and fucked that all up* here’s hoping the show tanks and it’s dismissed as non canon timeline
I already see that way!
you fire on the klingon first the klingons would see it as a challenge to the death. There would be no peace, either all of the klingons are dead or the vulcans. Klingon honor demands it.
You're right the Force Awakens is not Star Wars canon, wait, wrong video.
Nope STD is actually quite good - give it a chance! :)
+Sable
Nope herpes is actually quite good - give it a chance! :)
Not sure where but it was stated that Kahless forged the first Bat'leth
From his own hair
@@LoreReloaded Dipped into a volcano.
if the klingons favor war, why did they ever ask the vulcans for peace? were the vulcans beating them so badly?
It's more about respect: "if those Vulkans act like true klingons they are worth negotiating with"
Hello can you do Lore Videos on the Orions and the Gorn please
th-cam.com/video/UadvCjDtncE/w-d-xo.html - here you go
Problem with your time line is if the Kilngons had warp by 1900's they would have been much more powerful than we could have ever been.
They would have been Vorlons or Shadows and we would not even had gotten into space yet.
They were countered by the vulcans and andorians who had beaten us by ages well into warp tech. This is also the writers history..not mine
one thing about klingons they know how to party
bird718 For every reason they have to fight, they have a reason to party.
The Klingons had first contact with the hurricane Bayesian that time they had 1960s level technology they had jet fighters early surface-to-air missiles they didn't have no nuclear technology and firearms radar and because they were such great warriors they were able to run the helicopter plan and it took him a couple years but they did it that was able to capture some hair care bases on their Planet which had some hurt heavy Interstellar Fighters basically a shark Runabout and some perk impulse Fighters and they captured these craft and that's how they got to hurt technology and they reverse engineer it took them 30 or 40 years maybe longer but eventually they were able to make their own ships based on the heart technology
I find it peculiar how many people bash Discovery for its Lore on the Klingons when this very video states that there is no consistent canon whatsoever in the prime timeline up to this point anyway. The shows contradict themselves in the legend of Kahless, all dates, the acquisition of warp technology, include the "Hur'q" that apparently show up from the other end of the galaxy just to invade Klingons and don't bother or influence anybody else ever - and all that for a culture that in its portrayal overall series so far was stuck in-between cartoonishly ridiculous brutes that should have never achieved warp-travel and an actual, fleshed out species.
The point being...it is hard to see what exactly about the Klingon Lore in Discovery is more absurd or contradictory than every bit of information we got ever before.
The looks are completely different for sure - that is what it is. But in terms of *lore* - of actual background information -it seems pretty much just about as accurate as all the random contradictions we've had before.
+MrMartechi the Vulcan piece is beyond reasonable to me. That said.. If it doesn't make sense..I call it out. You should see me get onto the logic of ships at wolf 359. The klingons in discovery completely contradict tng and ds9 klingons in looks and action .. I have heard it argued they are closer to TOS Klingon so..maybe..
I guess my point is: yes, Discovery contradicts a lot of ST and has a lot of issues. It just seems sometimes like it is held accountable for them far more than the already existing trek. People look at ridiculous notions in other shows and are mostly willing to handwave it - but as soon as something new comes along, it's then end of prime canon alltogether.
+MrMartechi have you observed me doing this?
Damn you Discovery! The Vulcans' first meeting with the Klingons is illogical. You're telling me the Vulcans would shoot at Klingon ships after being shot at themselves. Self-defense is crazy illogical.
I mean let's put this into prospective. If a random man shot me without provocation and I saw him on the streets again, logic dictates that I should immediately trust him!
After all, him shooting me was probably a mistake! Just like the Vulcans should have just assumed the Klingons firing on them the first time was a mistake. Obviously! They should have risked repeat incidents for the sake of establishing first contact. Remember that old Vulcan saying: "self-preservation is for fools."
Vulcan's are pacifists but they didn't even try to negotiate first, that's the issue. It isn't that they did start shooting in self defense, it's that they didn't even bother to try to find a different solution first.
Lyze Except Enterprise had already established that for several centuries the Vulcans had been governed by a highly militaristic High Command. Given what we see of that government, especially it's interactions with the Andorians, them adopting a shoot first, talk later policy fits their behaviour. Its not logical in the slightest, but Enterprise made it canon that Vulcans of that era used the pretense of logic as a cover for highly aggressive behaviour.
So Discoverys addition there fits perfectly with canon as established by Enterprise. In fact, it's about the only thing they could do as going with how we know Vulcans behave would then screw up what Enterprise showed us. So it seems to me the root cause of this issue is Enterprise, not Discovery.
Lyze Vulcans are also a former warrior race who used to see not responding to an attack as a sign of weakness and a reason to invade. So they kind of have a reason to assume that the best way to deal with warrior races is to hit them first and hit them hard.
I'm unsure of the distaste expressed for the Vulcan Hello, when you consider that, as far as we are aware the Klingon's launched an unprovoked attack upon a Vulcan vessel that had strayed into their territory. After this what is stated is that the Vulcan's began firing first against the Klingon's. Their has been no implication that the Vulcan's didn't do their research before making this decision.
I feel that we ought to extend the benefit of the doubt to the precise manner in which the Vulcan's came to this decision.
That's the point. We don't know..and neither do the Vulcans..no research to ensure no system malfunction..no investigations..no attempt to determine anything
Highly illogical..emotional response..I dare say very Andorian like
Lore Reloaded go watch Balance of Terror and get back to us.
seems to me that you over emphasize klingon words i at least find it distracting
It was partially parody, and partial attempts to say it right. Klingon words are said with force and vigor. Also, I am notoriously known for saying things inaccurately. It's just apart of who I am - so when I was doing this - I was trying to be very nuanced. I'll remember that for future videos.
I don't think the "Vulcan Hello" of firing first on Klingons is all that inconsistent. Vulcans, being logical pragmatists, would do whatever is effective in establishing contact with the Klingons.
"Hey, Our ship wandered into their space and they destroyed it." - "Sir, should we investigate to determine if there was a malfunction in communications, determine if perhaps they percieved us as hostile, see if perhaps there was a protocol violation?" - "NO SCREW IT! FIRE EVERY TIME WE SEE IT!" - Rewatch the vulcan hello.. I am only barely exaggerating on this.
Lore Reloaded I'm not actually trying to defend the writing quality on Discovery, it just seems a little exaggerated you me when you mention it on your videos.
I feel as if there is some missing dialog in discovery or rather there should have been more. Its not outside the realm of possibilities that the Vulcans had to prove their mettle to the Klingons before they would be willing to open a dialog. As it stands now its just sloppy writing.
Why do the klingons look like tng Picard era / orginal enterprise Archer era when they look completely different in Discovery Michael Burn era??
God willing.. They'll explain it X_x
Because the producer decided that it would be the best idea for the new show to destroy the most developed race in the star trek universe and start fresh.
I am choosing to believe that it's early stages of the augment virus
Aren't the Klingons in the Beta quadrant?
Sure
Shoot first ask questions later is very logical after being attacked, so I don't know why you say "Yeah" like that.
I don't find it logical to not investigate what happened, ensure it wasn't on your side, not on their side..not find other ways..you know, try to not get people killed..
Lore Reloaded you might want to go rewatch Balance of Terror and pay attention to who is advocating blasting the Romulus’s to hell to prevent war.
Should be 9th century CE. BCE means 'before common era' i.e before the birth of Christ.
a meaningless date to 70 per cent of this planet let alone any other plane to every other religion its ever 700 years earlier or 2000 years later we need to fix a common time frame for future use that includes all cultures dating system
Okay the back lift and Caleb was there always a bad left before Caleb's backlift maybe this evil dictating Klingon who was so so powerful they had a club but it would put it at the 16th century at our standard human history progression but I could be wrong that evil dictator Klingon you could have had a mystical sword I'll probably defeating all his foes during that time but it would be the ultimate story if someone would produce it and productive like all the origins we have our own origin we know about human civilization as it grew but I surely would love for the falcons listen attachment from the Vulcans as romulans and what other subspecies came from Vulcan the origins of playing on and one more thing Voyager AKA veiga oh and one more thing therefore had cranial I want to know when they progressed in that form of fashion they just go like hey I'm going to scar myself up and look like the baddest mother f****** on the street I don't know man but I was just thinking that's some quick evolutionary
Once again I prefer the old gaming canon of FASA.
Yall spelt my name wrong tho
Given that I am the foremost expert on the original series I really should be a part of it.
My half orc fringer almost fought a Klingon.
Did he win?
Lore Reloaded no. Because commander riker stopped him and the drow Jedi I was with stopped me. I would have gave him a good stomping, the orc hello is the same as Vulcan first contact.
Launch STD canon out of a cannon
It's a shame that the Klingons in Discovery are without hobor.
+sebastian wilkins i hope everything comes together
Lore Reloaded the only decent honourable Klingon we have met are worf, martok, kahless, kor, kang and koloth, every other Klingon has near enough and most recently acted without honor and against the teachings of kahless.
sebastian wilkins. No kidding... every Klingon centered episode in TNG and DS9 seems to feature Worf snarling "you have no HONOR!!!"
DrewLSsix probably because he is so disappointed in his own race at times, worf is the most honorable Klingons I have ever seen.
sebastian wilkins. To be fair, Worf spent a good portion of his life raised outside of Klingon society. A lot of what he knew was either from his youth or was learned from an outsiders perspective.
The thing with rules and laws is they tend to pop up when needed, if Klingon society is really so steeped in honor its likely due to a real need.
In other words, a world without murder wont have laws against it. A world with books prescribing punishments and mediating factors concerning murder (or dishonor) likely has a lot of that crime going down.
Worfs story is actually a pretty interesting take on ideology vs reality. And that probably makes the Klingons the best developed parallel to the federation and its ideology vs pragmatism that makes up so many stories in the franchise.
STD history never made any sense to me. Didn't fit, Klingons, tech, Vulcans. Then was the cloak tech.
GENESIS? Genesis allowed is not! Is planet forbidden. Sorry. Every time I hear that word in any context, that is what I hear.
Perhaps the Vulcans first encountered the Klingons before the time of Surak? That would be a logical explanation of why they fired first.
Captain Griffin nah if that was the case the would have conquered and enslaved the Klingons. Or if they were too much trouble exterminated them, remember back then they were basically Romulans with psychic powers.
STD...seriously?......please dont...
I am not the arbiter of what is, and is not, canon - alas.
My favorite thing about STD is that it makes STE look good by comparison.
Why do you have to keep saying Hurq like that? 😂
I was over emphasizing because people always got mad when I said names wrong ;P
Hi
+Canada 2 yo
Hello
part japanesesamurai and part arab bedouin
Discovery crap should be ;lableled as nonsensical. If for no other reason than for its total incompatybility with the rest of the lore. I know other series also habve some continuity problems. But nothing on that scale/
What "scale" are you talking about exactly? Every frikkin Star Trek show so far has introduced concepts that are utterly breaking the entirety of Star Trek canon if you take them seriously.
The Organians are all-powerful beings that stopped a war between the Federation and Klingon Empire - but never cared about anything before or since.
It is possible to time-travel with any old Warp-capable ship- which basically breaks the entire lore because every evil species with warp travel ever would use this to overtake the timeline.
In TNG, Data explains quantum theory, stating that every decision creates a new universe. That alone renders all Timetravel Stories in Star Trek nonsensical because oh well- no universe gets fixed, it's just a new timeline that we follow, but all frakked up ones still exist and are just as real.
What about the time Voyager acquired technology that rendered the Borg completely incapable of catching them at the heart of their territory, essentially giving the Federation a tech advantage that would make it impossible for any conflict in future series to exist?
What about the time in TNG when they supposedly discovered that Warp Travel at high speeds damages the environment of the universe - a fact that should dominate all warp travel from thereon in but was completely dropped?
The point is - total incompatability with the rest of the lore is nothing new in Star Trek. People can live with it because they either choose to ignore it or find explanations around it. That is not hard.
1) Organians declared the end of the Fed/Klingon war. In outside tv cannon, one day the Organians simply left and hostilities resumed. Source is Star Fleet Battles so that's B cannon or whatever but still is addressed.
2) Possible to time travel with warp capable ships of a certain caliber and in certain ways (exceed warp 10 slingshot around the sun thinger). There is an in show canonical organization that does nothing but prevent and undo time travel damage.
3)Data Quantum theory/multiverse thing. You time travel, you change the past, there now exists two timelines, one in which you did time travel and one in which you didn't. If you are aware you are in a time travel induced universe, you go back and fix it, now you're in a second timeline where time travel didn't happen...I'm not seeing a conflict here. Also, the JJ Abrams Star Trek universe is one of those other possible timeline/decisions make new universes. The Star Trek Online universe continues the story where the past didn't change. Time travel did and didn't happen in these two cases, decisions made two universes so it's consistant with Data's statement. Still though, time travel is dumb and I wish they'd stop doing it in Star Trek.
4)Voyager Borg tech. Well, we don't really have anything to moves the plot further into the future in tv series so we don't really know what will come of it. However, a lot of that tech was from the future and Star Fleet has a policy of not effing up the timeline as much as possible so they probably will be reluctant to implement it. However, in Star Trek Online, seems mobile emitters are common tech, there's quite a few free roaming holograms in that.
5)Warp Travel damages time space. Voyager was specifically stated to be designed to minimize those stresses do to that research. Presumably new ships incorporated those technologies and the information was shared to others. Plus, the damage to subspace was not described as an immediate threat, merely that in that particular region of space in episode (Speed Limit) was showing advanced signs of it due to heavier traffic.
Robert Gräfe it’s not isolationist if they are invading your territory.
Here's to you pulling a hat trick out of a mash up of Trek history. And by that I mean actual Trek history. And yes there is that one problematic episode in TOS that introduced us to Kahless. Only made worse by STNG. Nice to see they are screwing this up in Discovery.
+tag1462 I try
I find it interesting that we're zeroing in in the whole Vulcan-Klingon first contact thing as an example of Discovery's ineptitude. Well... Trek has had sketchy lore from the very beginning. It doesn't seem fair to single this out.
Oh I'm happy to mock anything that's not logical and have in the past ;P It's just easier to see with Discovery.. You've seen me go after oberths i assume?
The HURQ!!
Ooorah
Bless you!
Why do you repeat yourself sometimes? I keep thinking I accident hit the 10seconds back button. You should edit these put in post to make your videos feel more professional. It gets a like tho
Most of them don't have me repeating myself. And the ones that do? Are because of editting errors. I actually repeat myself quite a bit and do multiple takes.. ever so often - one will get through. and It annoys me and I get really irritated with myself when i noticed the failure on myside.
@@LoreReloaded you need someone to just watch/listen before you press the go button. You're never as good at noticing your own mistakes as a 3rd party.
I commented on this video because there were so many mistakes, I'm not a big enough fan to be who you choose (though I wouldn't object of you really need someone), but I'm sure you have people here lining up to help you out with something like that.
@@xsjado_anon yea the errors spoken of here are widely out of date as my stuff has improved but thanks for the feedback
Kayla’s use his hair add in the volcanic lava molded a blade that had never been seen before....... you need to get up on your Star Trek bro
+Alec Jones Where was this information garnered from?
So please tell me how the book is not Canon. The book was written off of the next generation episode. So how the hell is that not Canon. There were other stories written off that book as well. Such as the DS9 episode Kahless
Yup. He dipped his hair into the lava flow of Mt. Qi'stak.
It's very sad that you decided to corrupt your otherwise very good lore videos with that STD nonsense.
Yea, alas the IP holders hold it true and I wouldn't be consistent if I didn't hold to that canon - maybe they will do something that changes the canon all up and I'll have to do revision videos and never talk of it again!
I understand the problem, but as an hard Star Trek lore fan, I can't take STD as anything other than a new and awful parody like the Abrams films.
All I am saying is that it is absolutely possible to create a Star Trek series set before the existing series without kicking the lore into a trashcan. And STD doesn't honor the existing lore, instead creating a bad parody of a franchise with a well established fanbase. But it seems to be an illness of our time, like one can easily see by a look on the new Star Wars.
None of the stuff I've seen thus far on STD seems at odds with existing canon material! from what I can see its simply filling in some of the gaps left by the fact Enterprise didn't run for seven seasons like the other TNG era shows
X16Y22 infect with std
It’s pronounced Ka-lesh not Ka-less
I generally like your content, but you are so bad at editing sometimes. Almost every video I watch of yours has an obvious audio mistake. The uniform videos you did were full of obvious visual mistakes as well and you claimed that your viewers were being "sensitive" about it. I hope you up your quality, especially since you actively accept money from people to make the content.
... This video is over a year old.. I do attempt to increase what I do and correct errors. However, my content isn't for everyone. Even though you like it - if faults from a year old video are to much - or you don't think I've improved enough.. Trekyards, Spacedock, and Ketwolski are wonderful channels to check out. But again, I do try to get better and .. I have my doubts you're one of the people I 'actively accept money' from. Should you be one of them, feel free to hit me up on the site you're 'actively giving money' to me on.
@@LoreReloaded The passive aggressiveness is strong in you.
This is just the video I happened to comment on. I've been binge watching your videos and more often than not there is an obvious production quality issue. As a whole I enjoy them, but when an obvious issue pops up it's jarring, especially when watching multiple videos in a row. I didn't say I was personally giving you money. I only subscribed to your channel yesterday when I found your videos. However, given the way you react to viewers commenting about objective quality issues, like not editing your second takes correctly, I seriously doubt I will be joining your patreon.
I'm very comfortable with that. Again, this might not even be a channel you want to watch. I'd be comfortable with that as well. I can take criticism, I'm not that big on the way you give it. thanks anyway.
Are you using the STD stuff in this? Vulcans firing on Klingons and all. Must be. Are those your Notes showing events & the century? 22 century NX-01 Enterprise Launchers before ready for mission. Love this. Need more details on different events during the NX-01 / Klingon encounters. Such as Why the TOS Klingons look human. Is that still canon?
Discovery is considered canon according to CBS/Paramount and I stick to canon - so yes. It is from discovery because discovery is canon. The notes are from me.. I use them as a way to give you an idea of what else is going on. So for instance while this is occuring in the 22nd century - this other stuff is to..kind of as scope. Part 2 will cover the events of nx-01/klingon encounters.
Just play STO it's all in there
It’s not cAnon