I had death wobble happen to me at 70mph on the highway! I thought I was going to die lol I managed to slow down as the road was clear and I saved the Jeep from going off the road. But after that I rebuild the entire front end with all heavy duty upgraded parts and never got it again.
Yes, the audio levels for the music were better in this video, the music should never compete with someone who is speaking, we need to hear what is being said more than some background music, so good!
Man I miss you at MORR,and the interactions with his crew. LOVING your own crew and new content, hope it makes you rich, you've certainly earned it! Congrats and count on me as a avid follower of your channel.
Every time I ever dealt with death wobble it was always on a lifted vehicle and always a buildup of tolerances from wore out suspension parts. People say Jeep is the only one that suffers from this but I'm here to tell you that pickup trucks both Ford and Chevy do it too. Great video Tom keep them coming!
Anything that has a live front axle can have it happen. Due the fact that forces on one side affect the other side 1:1. Death wobble is just a harmonic resonance of that. And you are right it's always from from slop in the system that allows for it at that speed.
As a retired mechanic I can say that I’ve seen my share of death wobbles on Dodge trucks and jeeps. My experiences in diagnosing the culprit has lead to excessive play in the track bar on the drivers side 90% of the time and would fix the problem when replaced. It can be very pricey to replace the entire front suspension. I highly recommended starting with replacing the track bar if your funds are tight. Watching your videos really makes me miss working on similar types of projects. Thank you for the content. Keep up the good work 👍!
I replaced the track bar drag link and tie rod, still having the wobble. Is the next parts to replace, the control arms. They are currently stock, with a 4in lift on the truck.
Go 1/16 toe out and check your tire balance, make sure your ball joints have no play. Turn your steering wheel back and forth and have someone look for any play in the front end.
Been collecting scissor and bottle jacks for decades - every time I change vehicles or raid one for parts the jacks are scavenged. Have been clamping things in place with scissor jacks - like pressing panels into tension for welding etc.
Some things I've learned over the years: 1. Always tighten control arms with tires on the ground, not on the lift. They're a clamping connection, and if you tighten them without the vehicle weight you're clamping them in the wrong position. 2. Steering stabilizers do not fix death wobble. Not ever. They do mask death wobble until the forces overheat and wear out the stabilizer. Then DW appears. 3. Steersmarts, and some others, actually recommend a slight toe OUT to help keep DW at bay. It pre-loads the components using road forces and prevents the wobble harmonics from taking flight. 4. You have to check everything. Ball joints, control arm bushings, shocks, wheel bearings, trackbar and mounts, steering gearbox mounting bolts, Pitman arm nut, tie rod ends and mounts, caster angle, and toe. Any of them can contribute to DW.
Watching you tackle the death wobble was cool! Question, would a spring compressor made your life easier on those springs? I dont know but I've said it before, diggin' the content with the no-nonsense, sensibility, and the way you engage the family. Awesome work and Happy Fathers day TomTom!
Great to See You Tom & all You Viewers, I Wish all Fathers an Early Happy Father’s Day, You are Special. thank You for Being You! Great Vidja Tom, I’ll Catch You on The Next One. Keep it Safe Out There. This will be the First Year without My Dad, RIP James E. Cole Born 05/21/1943 & called Home 07/01/2023. Love & Miss You Like Crazy
Im sorry man. It doesn't get any easier, you just get more used to it. You know the "it" I'm talking about. If you need to talk to someone, please do so. Just talkin and maybe cryin dont hurt nobody, but it sure helps. My papa and I were loggers and ran our own jyppo outfit. Bidding smaller jobs that a family size crew could easily deal with. Memories of Cuttin timber with my dad were the most fun I've ever had. He ain't gone nowhere. Neither has yours. He's watchin and takin care of what he can. You listen, you'll hear him.
Love your short, sweet, direct approach on your videos. You have a keen eye for moving things along where needed, but still providing the content to see how things are done. Keep doing what you are doing and it before long you'll be at 500k - 1M subs!! Peace and love to you and your family.
I had never heard of this until my daughter had a Jeep just like that and asked for some help and I actually had no idea that the simple fix is to make sure that there are no warn parts and has a good alignment!
We would always drive around the carpark after having a vehicle jacked up to work on, to settle the suspension before measuring tracking or camber caster angles, you get much better results.😊
@ 11:27 Usually a Pry-bar will work the Best ! / And That's Especially True for removing " U-Joints " Without Damaging them ! One Other Thing that helps are " Drift Pins " ! We Used Them in carpentry for Lining up Bolt Holes ! They " Work Very Well " !
10:59 ANYTHING that makes safety glasses more desirable to wear??? ... Is a good thing!! I remember when safety glasses were made mandatory at ALL times while on the shop floor (even visitors!) That eye injuries (and even general face injuries) dropped so rapidly in the Construction Sector, they released the study 6 months early (it was supposed to be for a year) The fancy safety glasses look great! .. they blend in beautifully!!
Tom, very happy to see you working on your own projects and sharing your own content. I really enjoy your attention to detail and sharing your step by step process with us. Please. Please. Please. Either create, or buy into a library of background music. Something with at least some variety. I can only handle the choir scaling and guitar riff for about 2 minutes before you go on mute.
Ya know, I think it's more and more clear that Tom Tom doesn't have any interest in being angry - even when he's hammering away, he's got a smile on his face and he's treating his family quiet and respectful-like. Sure, that bolt's stuck as can be, but that's fine, that's how God made bolts. Really admire and respect that, and I try and echo that in my daily life.
Good job Tom! You should put out a T-shirt . . . I survived the infamous death wobbles! I had the same problem with severe death wobbles in my '01. Upon inspection there were so many things worn out and damaged that in saving time and money in the long run I opted to put in a full long-arm lift kit from Rough Country, which included new rear leaf springs (the old ones were sagging so bad that the front end aimed up towards the moon). It made all the difference in the world and I am very pleased 6 months into the installation. I have a very good mechanic that took his time, which included major welding to beef up the frame in making the kit work right. It aligned quite well and remains that way.
I was very happy to see Tom using anti-seize on the threads of those adjustable control rods. Anyone who ever even thinks they might have to fix something later should always use the stuff. 5 degrees of caster isn't nearly enough. The factory spec is 5.25 to 8.5, with 7 degrees preferred. You generally need at LEAST 7 degrees to keep death wobble at bay.
Hey Tom I am paraphrasing one the engineers who designed jeep suspensions here. When you have death wobble that has become this extreme he recommends you must rebuild the entire suspension for a proper fix. Basically every single nut, bolt, screw, bushings etc. all get wallowed out when death wobble occurs. All of them have to be pulled and replaced. He also warns about installing over powered steering dampeners without also beefing up other suspension components because it can lead to a situation where suspension damage accumulates over time but it is hidden by the over powered dampener until it fails suddenly at speed potentially leading to loss of control of the vehicle. I'm sure you are aware but there are kits you can buy for most jeeps that have significantly stronger fasteners and bushings than what comes from the factory.
We would always drive around the carpark after having a vehicle jacked up to work on, to settle the suspension before measuring tracking or camber caster angles, you get much better results.
Over greasing should be discussed, not stating low greasing. Each one of those joints only needs about 3 pumps from grease gun. Every time over greasing leads open loose joints only to eventually leads to death wobble as well with common ware.
@joseph-mariopelerin7028 no. Adults fix things 100% so they're safe to a modern standard. Because their life is still in there. And you don't squeeze pennies when you already don't have payments.
The only thing I would say about the upper control arm install is that if you were to flip the adjustable link over then you can get to the zerk fittings easier. I had the death wobble in my xj, and what also reallly helped was replacing the stabilizer shock. Great work Tom Tom.
My XJ with 31s was a Minnesota Winter Beast. That thing could go through 2 feet snow while passing snow plows. It was factory except for the 31s. Incredible offroad vehicle. I missed it when the engine went bad and I got an old GMC Envoy and lifted that right up to match the XJs snow capabilities.
The day you left MOR you immediately left me in tears because, for me, you had been such an important part of the crew (like Lizzy ;) ) that i feared it would never be the same!!! I love watching Matts's videos so much, especially that ones when you were building or fixing something (i love the Bombi). But i was wrong! Your own channel ist great too!!! So now its even better because i have two channels to enjoy ;) Keep up the great work! Yor are a true inspiration and i am very jealous about your great skills fixing and building things! Greetings from Germany also to Matt and his Team ;)
There's a guy in New Zealand I watch that can fix anything. He once said to a buddy banging something in place, don't use your hand as a hammer! That little saying has really stuck with me and I constantly remind myself by saying it to myself, friends and coworkers! I'm 50 and work construction in commercial work with lots of steel being assembled. I know lots of guys with bad hand issues and multiple that have had to get surgery to deal with the pain! Pick up your dead blow hammer and save yourself from years of pain! Don't Use Your Hand As A Hammer! Love your channel, keep it up!
Tom, a few tips; 1. Ditch the flimsy tie rod you was struggling with for one out of a Jeep 5.2 ZJ. It's much thicker and will not bend as easy as the stock XJ one. 2. The XJ has a steering box spacer that sometimes will crack and cause the steering box to become slightly loose. Several companies make a replacement steel spacers instead of the factory aluminum one. The thin factory ZJ tie rod will oscillate to and fro or up and down once you add bigger tires and can cause or contribute to "Death Wobble"
I'll second this. The ZJ tie rod is a pretty substantial upgrade, and inexpensive too. If you upgrade the steering box spacer be sure to get one that will allow for a future upgrade to a Durango steering box.
love the camera shots of the death wobble. that should terrify most people who don't respect the steering of a vehicle, and just keep driving on and on and on
Great video Tom! I remember starting off as a mechanic I thought death wobble was something made up because it was hard to recreate for myself. Then I experienced death wobble in a conversion van and it felt like the thing was gonna shake itself apart!
Those recycled control arms are Rough Country. I got the same ones from a junk yard XJ, took the joints apart to clean and relubed them up. I’m at about 4” of lift on “Mountain Dew”. These control arms work great. It took about a day of work to get the caster perfect but now it drives arrow straight and no wobble.
every time I watch tomtom, it's like watching a professional than all the amateurs, he reminds me of the early Saturday morning cars programs like 4 by 4 tv, four wheel drive channel there was others, they were all about fixing off-road vehicles, one guy converted his gasoline engine into vegetable oil, that you can get at any restaurant after they get done with it
Tom Tom, don't think we didn't see those "pads" under the jackstands on your roll-around work table! I only wish I had that table (and a lift!) when we were swapping the K member on my son's Mustang. Super useful.
Hi Tom. I'll be 75 soon, and I've started modifying Suspensions since I was 18. Check every Swivel Point of the Suspension to ensure there aren't any worn or loose parts. If everything is tight and moves smoothly, then check the Caster Angle. The angle should be set negative. This will stop the wobble. Look at Dragsters. They all have a negative caster. It prevents wobble and ensures easier steering back to center going forward. Good luck 👍
You want POSITIVE caster. Not negative. Think of pushing a hand cart. Negative caster is trying to get it to go straight with the handle out in front of the wheels. Impossible. Zero caster is with the handle straight above the wheels. Still impossible. Positive caster is with the handle laid back and behind the wheels as you push forward. The more you lay it back, the easier it is to keep straight. Of course, you can go too far positive, and all it will want to do is go straight, like a rail car on a drag strip.
For all the commenters, Tom made a fix and did a preliminary test and for that it stopped the death wobble. Loved the camera view. really showed up great. I have a 98 that's like de ja blue and we have some death wobble to work on. Also I have a spring compressor for struts that worked nicely to help with spring removal and install without having to drop the axle so far.
Your wife is a good addition to your channel. It’s great to see her support for your new venture. I live in Blackfoot so I am always interested in your projects
A trick we always did on the xj/zj is when you redo the steering components. Buy parts for a V8 jeep. They have a thicker wall and thicker diameter. Everything should bolt right up. I've done it to many jeeps.
Your bench could really use some triangle supports, even temporary ones if you feel they are in the way, at least when loading it like that. Take the old control arms and use them would be one idea! Just put sprints in the mounting, then you could remove them easy when not needed! Just an idea!:)
So I have a 2011 JK with a 3 1/2 inch lift. It has a bad case of death wobble. No on the long arms. After watching this video I am going to have long arms installed. Wow I did not know you used the same mounting points. Thank you so much for this video, opened my eyes.
Y’all are looking real sweet making videos together. Congratulations on the empty nest early. Y’all have raised them to live responsibily. Great to see you Tom working on solutions. Be safe and take care.
Great diagnosis and fix, Tom Tom! Poor caster angle is the culprit of 99% of all death wobble. Yes, worn steering and suspension components are contributors, but with 4-6° of caster, you can drive a vehicle with completely missing track bar bushings, and ball joints and end links that can snap together and apart by hand, without experiencing death wobble.
Good explanation of death wobble. There's a lot of causes which can lead to a lot of fixes. Worn components are definitely a leading culprit on stock Jeeps. Once you lift it you can induce it due to the suspension geometry changes. Another fix is changing the steering setup because the inverted Y leaves a lot to be desired.
Angela's multiple safety glasses choices made me laugh. Anyone in the work area should be wearing glasses so it's definitely a good idea for have a pair, or two. It would have great to know the "before" caster measurement, but hindsight is 20/20. I guess you could approximate the change with trigonometry knowing you made the bottom link 0.5 inches longer. You'd need to take some measurements of the relative locations of the axle side mounts in the side view. Excellent example of how geometry and not worn joints can fix the problem. Also, Ace is the place for hardware. My local store has two full aisles. It's cheaper and faster to get what you need in person than purchase from McMaster-Carr. I am enjoying what you are doing with the channel so far. I would advocate for more technical explanations when you can provide them. Very few people take that angle and you have the ability to do it.
Awesome that Angela has become more of yt star! Super cool to have the support of your family! I first experienced death wobble back in the eighties, of course long before the www could help me figure out what was happening. Just an fyi, you can stop it by vigorously jerking the steering wheel back and forth for a few seconds 🤣
These videos are so great! Also big applause to you Tom Tom for having such a good emphasis on safety. Very well done! Never knew what death wobble was and I sure learned a thing today.
I used to travel the way Bridger travels, except without the vehicle on the trailer. I always moved by driving, with all my worldly possessions in my car. Then, I lost my mind and got married, and that was the end of being foot-loose and fancy free. She's been gone for 9 years now, and I still miss her.
Big success! It all depends on what you use navigation for, but a big drawback to me is the need to down load maps everywhere you go. If you always have cell service and you plan your trips carefully, Things like OnX and Gaia work. If you travel full time like I do, it just ends up causing headaches. I use systems with preloaded maps.
Love what you're doing here. With all the hand tool work I feel like i would be able to mickey around with my own rig instead of bugging my buddies all the time. I'd be working on a heavier rig, so i need to be careful and mindful, but you're giving me great ideas as to things to look for to reduce the wobble. Thanks for the insights
Unless your toe and/or your caster is really whacked out, it should not cause the kind of death wobble you were getting it. And by really whacked out, I mean far enough that the alignment guy would probably have to double check to see if he was seeing what he thought he saw. Now typically, caster misalignment doesn't show up as tire wear. Camber and toe misalignment do, and the few quick glances I've seen of your tires don't show that kind of wear. It used to be that the motoring public collectively thought "I've got steering/driveability issues with my front end; ergo, I need a front end alignment." A lot of that was brought on by the tire shops, especially the big chains, like General, and so on. A free or cheap front end alignment was a way to hook people in the door to sell them stuff. Tires being the most obvious, but also front end parts as well. But people don't remember stuff like that. All they remember is that they had a problem, they took their car to Sears, or whatever, and a front end alignment later, they were good to go. They don't remember the many hundreds of dollars they spent replacing shocks, ball joints, king pins (dating myself here), tie rod ends, and so on. Front ends don't typically get out of alignment without hitting curbs, potholes, other cars, moose, deer, people. Okay, maybe not people. In other words: external forces. They also don't get out of alignment without worn parts. That comes with age and mileage. Tire shops know this, and they also know that the kinds of people they attract with their neighborhood specials; their coupons, will attract (mostly) people with relatively high mileage vehicles, which also are more than likely to have road-related damage to the front ends. So yes; excessive toe and/or camber issues CAN and may cause death-wobble issues, but so can out-of-round tires, tires badly out-of-balance, and worn/damaged front end components. I've also seen tracking issues, where the front end is driving in one direction, and the rear end is trying to drive in another. We also called it "dog-legging," and you'll know it when you see it. Unusual, but probably not in the Midwest: unibody frames being cracked, rusted through, or the spot welds being broken or torn away from the body. Seen that once or twice. In short, to say that toe or camber settings can be THE cause of wobbles is only partially true, but wholly misleading. Not purposely, unless you're a tire shop, but misleading nonetheless.
Silly Tom.. I thought you were an engineer. :) (6:50) You should know that an impact will never work with a long extension. The impact hammer hits and just causes the extension to flex like a torsion spring and rebounds - and never actually puts any force into the bolt. So just remember-- if you need a long extension, you'll have to break it loose by hand first. It works so well that they actually sell extensions that limit the amount of torque to a given number. So you can buy 60lbs, 80lbs and 100lbs limit extensions, etc..
Actually, there are extensions designed to use with impact sockets. The extensions designed for specific torque range are called torque sticks and they are useful for quickly installing wheel lugs after which a torque wrench should be used for final torque. For precise torque, the fastener should be torqued in 3 steps. For 100lbft the steps would be 50, 75, 100, i.e. each fastener would be torqued in turn to each step. In aircraft maintenance, this is required standard procedure.
@@calholli The videos are good, but until you use one, it is difficult to explain "rebound" feeling. I got a set on Father's day from one of my boys. Both sons are mechanics so I get tools instead of the usual Father's day tie! The main users are tire shops, but I always re-torque the lugs to get the exact setting. I got a QUINN (HF) from the other son which I like, non-ratchet, with setting of 80 to 160 in 5 steps. Very fast AND I can see the settings without my cheater glasses (75 YO eyes).
@@jimandnena4 Well, I have several 2ft extensions and I've felt what it does.. It won't remove the bolt at all.. Then you pull the extension off and just put the socket directly on the impact--- and it busts the bolt loose with ease. It's just a fundamental thing that you need to remember when using an impact.
Good Job guys working together at the shop. Nice video, good Videographers work, and even learned something new. A total Win! Well Done! Keep up the great job and good Luck for the TH-cam channel.
Hay Tom. Just wanted to say I am enjoying your channel and I like how you're editing the videos. You're not telling us over and over what you're going to do, good mix of time lapse and live action.
I had an 00 XJ that was driven hard and put away wet for 220k miles. I found that nothing short of replacing the entire front end suspension would fix the death wobble. Had to do it 3 times over my ownership. Fortunately its easy and relatively inexpensive.
Hey Tom Tom. I like your videos, but I can’t take much more of the whistling song. I don’t want to add any negativity, but on your last video, I almost had to mute the video for the montages. It’s a hard one to listen to over and over again. If it’s just me, then I’ll cope. I understand it’s difficult to land on a signature sound track for a channel.
Hey Tom, I liked that you said you think your kids raised you right! Made me chuckle pretty well. Since my oldest also graduated high this year and will be moving out in August!
Your editing is wonderful: Nice tight pace. Great narration. Anything repetitive you either fast forward or skip entirely. Never fallen asleep during one of your videos, which is something I do with others.
I started doing alignments on cars at the age of 11 with a tape measure for toe and bubbles for caster and camber! I did that for about 24 years ! Then I went to work for Les Schwab Tires doing alignments with a computer machine for another 20 years ! I still thing if done properly the tape measure and bubbles are more accurate! I like your channel just trying help!
Over the years of playing with xj’s I learned that the steering for a V8 grand Cherokee ZJ is much heavier duty then stock XJ steering. I had a stock tie rod snap in half going down the road in town and that was exciting to say the least. If you buy new or parts yard steering get the v8 zj and it bolts right in!
Lol Watching a fly fishing rig used like a caster made me chuckle a bit. Looks like so much fun, though...but have that young man start with the movie "A River Runs Through It", and then go from there. ;) Fly fishing done well is pure poetry, beautiful and sublime.
Tec tip, Even Matt does this. On solid axles, if you know your caster, you don't need to set the vehicle on the ground, a couple of angle iron botted to the face of the hub, you can measure much easier than utilizing your tires especially if you are by yourself doing the setting. Great vid though. It shows that adjustable arms ARE the way to go.. I 'd have also looked at all the Ball Joints for excess ware...
My old '55 Willys CJ-5 had a heck of a death wobble at 40 - 45 MPH! Almost shake your fillings out! I put a couple of steering dampers on it and it helped a bit. I have to add that 45 MPH was just about the top speed of the old girl.
Nice job Tom-Tom. If you want extra caster without changing pinion angle, Specialty Products Company makes offset upper ball joints up to 2⁰ offset. They can be rotated in or out to correct camber issues too.
Great video all round Tom, and great family too. When I used to set up toe on front wheels I used two sticks 3 or 4 fit long, one on each wheel rim edges make a mark roughly in the middle of the two crossed over sticks with a pencil then move to the rear and do the same you get wo marks, from there you adjust to get the toe! I never measured on the tyres as they can be bulged or not on the rim perfect of just misshaped.
You are so lucky to have such a great wife and really good kids.
The amount of patience you show while fighting bolts going in is amazing.
When mechs have all the tools, they work in silence, patience is key
That was great footage of the death wobble. For a second, I thought the whole front end was going to fall off.
That's what it feels like. Been there, done that.
Yeah. Inside the car anything not anchored down, flies through the air! Scary stuff from inside to the outside!
I had death wobble happen to me at 70mph on the highway! I thought I was going to die lol I managed to slow down as the road was clear and I saved the Jeep from going off the road. But after that I rebuild the entire front end with all heavy duty upgraded parts and never got it again.
The editing of this video is outstanding, interspersed commentary and action is mixed together just perfectly
Audio level for the music is better too 😊
Yes, the audio levels for the music were better in this video, the music should never compete with someone who is speaking, we need to hear what is being said more than some background music, so good!
Man I miss you at MORR,and the interactions with his crew. LOVING your own crew and new content, hope it makes you rich, you've certainly earned it! Congrats and count on me as a avid follower of your channel.
Every time I ever dealt with death wobble it was always on a lifted vehicle and always a buildup of tolerances from wore out suspension parts. People say Jeep is the only one that suffers from this but I'm here to tell you that pickup trucks both Ford and Chevy do it too. Great video Tom keep them coming!
I agree, my 67 Bronco was bad, replaced all the bushings and steering ends…viola.
I’ve only experienced it on my friends stock TJ that was brand new and it did it a few times a week and it was worse than what Tom is showing here.
Yes 1997 F350 death wobble
Most death wobble I've seen/ heard of were in Fords and second in line was Dodge. Some are known for it but all can suffer from it.
Anything that has a live front axle can have it happen. Due the fact that forces on one side affect the other side 1:1. Death wobble is just a harmonic resonance of that. And you are right it's always from from slop in the system that allows for it at that speed.
As a retired mechanic I can say that I’ve seen my share of death wobbles on Dodge trucks and jeeps. My experiences in diagnosing the culprit has lead to excessive play in the track bar on the drivers side 90% of the time and would fix the problem when replaced. It can be very pricey to replace the entire front suspension. I highly recommended starting with replacing the track bar if your funds are tight. Watching your videos really makes me miss working on similar types of projects. Thank you for the content. Keep up the good work 👍!
I replaced the track bar drag link and tie rod, still having the wobble. Is the next parts to replace, the control arms. They are currently stock, with a 4in lift on the truck.
Go 1/16 toe out and check your tire balance, make sure your ball joints have no play. Turn your steering wheel back and forth and have someone look for any play in the front end.
@@misterrc51 thanks for the pointer. Don’t you usually do a 1/16th toe in? What’s the toe out for? Trying to understand.
@@Re-DeclarationOfIndependence correct toe in is + toe
@@misterrc51 well I was clarifying because you said set it to 1/16th to “out.” Why would it be set to “toe-out”?
i want Tom to join the onX offroad challenge next year..really want to watch Tom methodically calculated and how to save money on the build..
I REALLY enjoy how you are such a family oriented man. You and your wife truly do live under the Golden Rule.
18:15 Excellent 'alternate use' of a scissor jack! Way to use what you have on hand.
Been collecting scissor and bottle jacks for decades - every time I change vehicles or raid one for parts the jacks are scavenged. Have been clamping things in place with scissor jacks - like pressing panels into tension for welding etc.
Some things I've learned over the years:
1. Always tighten control arms with tires on the ground, not on the lift. They're a clamping connection, and if you tighten them without the vehicle weight you're clamping them in the wrong position.
2. Steering stabilizers do not fix death wobble. Not ever. They do mask death wobble until the forces overheat and wear out the stabilizer. Then DW appears.
3. Steersmarts, and some others, actually recommend a slight toe OUT to help keep DW at bay. It pre-loads the components using road forces and prevents the wobble harmonics from taking flight.
4. You have to check everything. Ball joints, control arm bushings, shocks, wheel bearings, trackbar and mounts, steering gearbox mounting bolts, Pitman arm nut, tie rod ends and mounts, caster angle, and toe. Any of them can contribute to DW.
Yes to No. 1! So many TH-camrs seem to not know this. 🙏
Unless you're using a four post lift and the wheels aren't raised.
Depends on the links, not all of them have to be on the ground before torquing them down 🤙🏼
@@jvallager true. Rubber bushings yes, rose joints no.
@@roysoutdoorlife there’s actually a handful of manufactures using rubber bushings that won’t bind and you can torque them up at any point
Your wife seems to be a very nice lady and great help love the safety glasses
I always have so much more respect for TH-camrs who talk and practice safety.
Watching you tackle the death wobble was cool! Question, would a spring compressor made your life easier on those springs? I dont know but I've said it before, diggin' the content with the no-nonsense, sensibility, and the way you engage the family. Awesome work and Happy Fathers day TomTom!
Great to See You Tom & all You Viewers, I Wish all Fathers an Early Happy Father’s Day, You are Special. thank You for Being You!
Great Vidja Tom, I’ll Catch You on The Next One. Keep it Safe Out There.
This will be the First Year without My Dad, RIP James E. Cole Born 05/21/1943 & called Home 07/01/2023. Love & Miss You Like Crazy
Im sorry man. It doesn't get any easier, you just get more used to it. You know the "it" I'm talking about. If you need to talk to someone, please do so. Just talkin and maybe cryin dont hurt nobody, but it sure helps.
My papa and I were loggers and ran our own jyppo outfit. Bidding smaller jobs that a family size crew could easily deal with. Memories of Cuttin timber with my dad were the most fun I've ever had. He ain't gone nowhere. Neither has yours. He's watchin and takin care of what he can. You listen, you'll hear him.
I’ve always heard you should leave all suspension bolts loose on the lift and tighten and torque after you put weigh back on em.
Love your short, sweet, direct approach on your videos. You have a keen eye for moving things along where needed, but still providing the content to see how things are done. Keep doing what you are doing and it before long you'll be at 500k - 1M subs!! Peace and love to you and your family.
Nice to meet you, Dallin. Congrats and best of luck, Bridger. Thanks, guys, for raising great parents. 😀
I had never heard of this until my daughter had a Jeep just like that and asked for some help and I actually had no idea that the simple fix is to make sure that there are no warn parts and has a good alignment!
We would always drive around the carpark after having a vehicle jacked up to work on, to settle the suspension before measuring tracking or camber caster angles, you get much better results.😊
I'm glad you got the wobble cleared up. It was not safe as it was specially for a less experienced drivers.
@ 11:27 Usually a Pry-bar will work the Best ! / And That's Especially True for removing " U-Joints " Without Damaging them !
One Other Thing that helps are " Drift Pins " ! We Used Them in carpentry for Lining up Bolt Holes !
They " Work Very Well " !
At times experienced parts have just enough of what it takes to get you back up and running. Thanks Robby and Matt for your donations!
10:59 ANYTHING that makes safety glasses more desirable to wear??? ... Is a good thing!!
I remember when safety glasses were made mandatory at ALL times while on the shop floor (even visitors!) That eye injuries (and even general face injuries) dropped so rapidly in the Construction Sector, they released the study 6 months early (it was supposed to be for a year)
The fancy safety glasses look great! .. they blend in beautifully!!
Tom, very happy to see you working on your own projects and sharing your own content. I really enjoy your attention to detail and sharing your step by step process with us.
Please. Please. Please. Either create, or buy into a library of background music. Something with at least some variety. I can only handle the choir scaling and guitar riff for about 2 minutes before you go on mute.
No music would be better! At least make it less volume by half.
PLEASE get rid of the background music. It is so annoying.
I agree- don’t need the music 😎
Always Nice To See Tom-Tom...& Mom-Mom🤣🤣
Mom Mom...we like it! Lol
Love your videos and how you go about fixing things. Videographer is doing GREAT!
Ya know, I think it's more and more clear that Tom Tom doesn't have any interest in being angry - even when he's hammering away, he's got a smile on his face and he's treating his family quiet and respectful-like. Sure, that bolt's stuck as can be, but that's fine, that's how God made bolts. Really admire and respect that, and I try and echo that in my daily life.
Good job Tom! You should put out a T-shirt . . . I survived the infamous death wobbles! I had the same problem with severe death wobbles in my '01. Upon inspection there were so many things worn out and damaged that in saving time and money in the long run I opted to put in a full long-arm lift kit from Rough Country, which included new rear leaf springs (the old ones were sagging so bad that the front end aimed up towards the moon). It made all the difference in the world and I am very pleased 6 months into the installation. I have a very good mechanic that took his time, which included major welding to beef up the frame in making the kit work right. It aligned quite well and remains that way.
I was very happy to see Tom using anti-seize on the threads of those adjustable control rods. Anyone who ever even thinks they might have to fix something later should always use the stuff.
5 degrees of caster isn't nearly enough. The factory spec is 5.25 to 8.5, with 7 degrees preferred. You generally need at LEAST 7 degrees to keep death wobble at bay.
Hey Tom I am paraphrasing one the engineers who designed jeep suspensions here. When you have death wobble that has become this extreme he recommends you must rebuild the entire suspension for a proper fix. Basically every single nut, bolt, screw, bushings etc. all get wallowed out when death wobble occurs. All of them have to be pulled and replaced. He also warns about installing over powered steering dampeners without also beefing up other suspension components because it can lead to a situation where suspension damage accumulates over time but it is hidden by the over powered dampener until it fails suddenly at speed potentially leading to loss of control of the vehicle. I'm sure you are aware but there are kits you can buy for most jeeps that have significantly stronger fasteners and bushings than what comes from the factory.
We would always drive around the carpark after having a vehicle jacked up to work on, to settle the suspension before measuring tracking or camber caster angles, you get much better results.
Over greasing should be discussed, not stating low greasing. Each one of those joints only needs about 3 pumps from grease gun. Every time over greasing leads open loose joints only to eventually leads to death wobble as well with common ware.
Thats just standard advice for all trucks. All new front end. And a premium adjustable track bar. PSC hydro assist. Done.
Bah... you just change parts until it stop doing it... its a truck after all, too old to make it worth Changing everything like an engineer....
@joseph-mariopelerin7028 no. Adults fix things 100% so they're safe to a modern standard. Because their life is still in there. And you don't squeeze pennies when you already don't have payments.
Empty nesters!! Congratulations Ton Ton and Angie.
The only thing I would say about the upper control arm install is that if you were to flip the adjustable link over then you can get to the zerk fittings easier. I had the death wobble in my xj, and what also reallly helped was replacing the stabilizer shock. Great work Tom Tom.
My XJ with 31s was a Minnesota Winter Beast. That thing could go through 2 feet snow while passing snow plows. It was factory except for the 31s. Incredible offroad vehicle. I missed it when the engine went bad and I got an old GMC Envoy and lifted that right up to match the XJs snow capabilities.
The day you left MOR you immediately left me in tears because, for me, you had been such an important part of the crew (like Lizzy ;) ) that i feared it would never be the same!!! I love watching Matts's videos so much, especially that ones when you were building or fixing something (i love the Bombi). But i was wrong! Your own channel ist great too!!! So now its even better because i have two channels to enjoy ;) Keep up the great work! Yor are a true inspiration and i am very jealous about your great skills fixing and building things! Greetings from Germany also to Matt and his Team ;)
There's a guy in New Zealand I watch that can fix anything. He once said to a buddy banging something in place, don't use your hand as a hammer! That little saying has really stuck with me and I constantly remind myself by saying it to myself, friends and coworkers! I'm 50 and work construction in commercial work with lots of steel being assembled. I know lots of guys with bad hand issues and multiple that have had to get surgery to deal with the pain!
Pick up your dead blow hammer and save yourself from years of pain! Don't Use Your Hand As A Hammer!
Love your channel, keep it up!
Tom, a few tips;
1. Ditch the flimsy tie rod you was struggling with for one out of a Jeep 5.2 ZJ. It's much thicker and will not bend as easy as the stock XJ one.
2. The XJ has a steering box spacer that sometimes will crack and cause the steering box to become slightly loose. Several companies make a replacement steel spacers instead of the factory aluminum one.
The thin factory ZJ tie rod will oscillate to and fro or up and down once you add bigger tires and can cause or contribute to "Death Wobble"
I'll second this. The ZJ tie rod is a pretty substantial upgrade, and inexpensive too. If you upgrade the steering box spacer be sure to get one that will allow for a future upgrade to a Durango steering box.
Where is that spacer located?
@@Re-DeclarationOfIndependence between the steering box and the unibody frame
love the camera shots of the death wobble. that should terrify most people who don't respect the steering of a vehicle, and just keep driving on and on and on
I for one really enjoy your background music!
Great video Tom! I remember starting off as a mechanic I thought death wobble was something made up because it was hard to recreate for myself. Then I experienced death wobble in a conversion van and it felt like the thing was gonna shake itself apart!
Those recycled control arms are Rough Country. I got the same ones from a junk yard XJ, took the joints apart to clean and relubed them up. I’m at about 4” of lift on “Mountain Dew”. These control arms work great. It took about a day of work to get the caster perfect but now it drives arrow straight and no wobble.
every time I watch tomtom, it's like watching a professional than all the amateurs, he reminds me of the early Saturday morning cars programs like 4 by 4 tv, four wheel drive channel there was others, they were all about fixing off-road vehicles, one guy converted his gasoline engine into vegetable oil, that you can get at any restaurant after they get done with it
Tom Tom, don't think we didn't see those "pads" under the jackstands on your roll-around work table! I only wish I had that table (and a lift!) when we were swapping the K member on my son's Mustang. Super useful.
It's still new enough I hate to scratch it😄
Hi Tom. I'll be 75 soon, and I've started modifying Suspensions since I was 18. Check every Swivel Point of the Suspension to ensure there aren't any worn or loose parts. If everything is tight and moves smoothly, then check the Caster Angle. The angle should be set negative. This will stop the wobble. Look at Dragsters. They all have a negative caster. It prevents wobble and ensures easier steering back to center going forward. Good luck 👍
No claw hammers were injured in the making of this video.
You want POSITIVE caster. Not negative. Think of pushing a hand cart. Negative caster is trying to get it to go straight with the handle out in front of the wheels. Impossible. Zero caster is with the handle straight above the wheels. Still impossible. Positive caster is with the handle laid back and behind the wheels as you push forward. The more you lay it back, the easier it is to keep straight. Of course, you can go too far positive, and all it will want to do is go straight, like a rail car on a drag strip.
Caster needs to be positive to combat death wobble, not negative.
Tom the one thing we found was the track bar bushings.
Other loose parts contribute but the track is what we found to be the biggest contributor
Tom, that is by far the worst Death-Wobble I have ever seen. I'm 65 as of Yesterday. Keep it up, yer getting better and better!
For all the commenters, Tom made a fix and did a preliminary test and for that it stopped the death wobble. Loved the camera view. really showed up great. I have a 98 that's like de ja blue and we have some death wobble to work on. Also I have a spring compressor for struts that worked nicely to help with spring removal and install without having to drop the axle so far.
First time I've ever seen the cameraman (camerawoman?) That's also using safety glasses. Good on you Tomtom!!
And good on Mom Mom too! Being safe is not overrated!
Your wife is a good addition to your channel. It’s great to see her support for your new venture. I live in Blackfoot so I am always interested in your projects
So happy to see the xj getting another upgrade
A trick we always did on the xj/zj is when you redo the steering components. Buy parts for a V8 jeep. They have a thicker wall and thicker diameter. Everything should bolt right up. I've done it to many jeeps.
Great vid Tom. Nice that Angela is so helpful with your shop work. My Angela , not so much but love her anyway 😂
Great video. I enjoy watching and learning. Am interested to see your D60s builds. Keep up the good work. I enjoy the family time you share also.
Your bench could really use some triangle supports, even temporary ones if you feel they are in the way, at least when loading it like that. Take the old control arms and use them would be one idea! Just put sprints in the mounting, then you could remove them easy when not needed! Just an idea!:)
So I have a 2011 JK with a 3 1/2 inch lift. It has a bad case of death wobble. No on the long arms. After watching this video I am going to have long arms installed. Wow I did not know you used the same mounting points. Thank you so much for this video, opened my eyes.
love the recycle parts.
I went one summer in St. George and that’s plenty for my life I will enjoy the cool mountains of Idaho all summer long. Your son is very smart
I enjoy the mixup in your videos, between the builds and valued family involvement time. Refreshing change of pace. 👍👍 to all the hard.
Y’all are looking real sweet making videos together. Congratulations on the empty nest early. Y’all have raised them to live responsibily. Great to see you Tom working on solutions. Be safe and take care.
Tom might look good in those turtleshell safety glasses too... lol
Great diagnosis and fix, Tom Tom! Poor caster angle is the culprit of 99% of all death wobble. Yes, worn steering and suspension components are contributors, but with 4-6° of caster, you can drive a vehicle with completely missing track bar bushings, and ball joints and end links that can snap together and apart by hand, without experiencing death wobble.
Great video Tom Tom 👍
Good explanation of death wobble. There's a lot of causes which can lead to a lot of fixes. Worn components are definitely a leading culprit on stock Jeeps. Once you lift it you can induce it due to the suspension geometry changes. Another fix is changing the steering setup because the inverted Y leaves a lot to be desired.
Angela's multiple safety glasses choices made me laugh. Anyone in the work area should be wearing glasses so it's definitely a good idea for have a pair, or two.
It would have great to know the "before" caster measurement, but hindsight is 20/20. I guess you could approximate the change with trigonometry knowing you made the bottom link 0.5 inches longer. You'd need to take some measurements of the relative locations of the axle side mounts in the side view. Excellent example of how geometry and not worn joints can fix the problem.
Also, Ace is the place for hardware. My local store has two full aisles. It's cheaper and faster to get what you need in person than purchase from McMaster-Carr.
I am enjoying what you are doing with the channel so far. I would advocate for more technical explanations when you can provide them. Very few people take that angle and you have the ability to do it.
I wreck a couple pair a year. Plus give out a few. In bulk safety glasses +99.8% UVA-B ANSL? w/cheater to my needs under $10 each
Awesome that Angela has become more of yt star! Super cool to have the support of your family!
I first experienced death wobble back in the eighties, of course long before the www could help me figure out what was happening. Just an fyi, you can stop it by vigorously jerking the steering wheel back and forth for a few seconds 🤣
Tom Tom rules !
These videos are so great! Also big applause to you Tom Tom for having such a good emphasis on safety. Very well done! Never knew what death wobble was and I sure learned a thing today.
I used to travel the way Bridger travels, except without the vehicle on the trailer. I always moved by driving, with all my worldly possessions in my car.
Then, I lost my mind and got married, and that was the end of being foot-loose and fancy free.
She's been gone for 9 years now, and I still miss her.
Same here!!! I keep forgetting to call my ex's ex and thank him.
Big success! It all depends on what you use navigation for, but a big drawback to me is the need to down load maps everywhere you go. If you always have cell service and you plan your trips carefully, Things like OnX and Gaia work. If you travel full time like I do, it just ends up causing headaches. I use systems with preloaded maps.
Ace is the place.
Love what you're doing here. With all the hand tool work I feel like i would be able to mickey around with my own rig instead of bugging my buddies all the time. I'd be working on a heavier rig, so i need to be careful and mindful, but you're giving me great ideas as to things to look for to reduce the wobble. Thanks for the insights
Unless your toe and/or your caster is really whacked out, it should not cause the kind of death wobble you were getting it. And by really whacked out, I mean far enough that the alignment guy would probably have to double check to see if he was seeing what he thought he saw.
Now typically, caster misalignment doesn't show up as tire wear. Camber and toe misalignment do, and the few quick glances I've seen of your tires don't show that kind of wear.
It used to be that the motoring public collectively thought "I've got steering/driveability issues with my front end; ergo, I need a front end alignment."
A lot of that was brought on by the tire shops, especially the big chains, like General, and so on.
A free or cheap front end alignment was a way to hook people in the door to sell them stuff. Tires being the most obvious, but also front end parts as well.
But people don't remember stuff like that. All they remember is that they had a problem, they took their car to Sears, or whatever, and a front end alignment later, they were good to go. They don't remember the many hundreds of dollars they spent replacing shocks, ball joints, king pins (dating myself here), tie rod ends, and so on.
Front ends don't typically get out of alignment without hitting curbs, potholes, other cars, moose, deer, people. Okay, maybe not people. In other words: external forces.
They also don't get out of alignment without worn parts. That comes with age and mileage.
Tire shops know this, and they also know that the kinds of people they attract with their neighborhood specials; their coupons, will attract (mostly) people with relatively high mileage vehicles, which also are more than likely to have road-related damage to the front ends.
So yes; excessive toe and/or camber issues CAN and may cause death-wobble issues, but so can out-of-round tires, tires badly out-of-balance, and worn/damaged front end components. I've also seen tracking issues, where the front end is driving in one direction, and the rear end is trying to drive in another. We also called it "dog-legging," and you'll know it when you see it.
Unusual, but probably not in the Midwest: unibody frames being cracked, rusted through, or the spot welds being broken or torn away from the body. Seen that once or twice.
In short, to say that toe or camber settings can be THE cause of wobbles is only partially true, but wholly misleading. Not purposely, unless you're a tire shop, but misleading nonetheless.
Nice work Tom,Tom,wife done a Great job filming.truck runs Great too. Good people for sure.love brother skinner.
Silly Tom.. I thought you were an engineer. :) (6:50)
You should know that an impact will never work with a long extension. The impact hammer hits and just causes the extension to flex like a torsion spring and rebounds - and never actually puts any force into the bolt. So just remember-- if you need a long extension, you'll have to break it loose by hand first. It works so well that they actually sell extensions that limit the amount of torque to a given number. So you can buy 60lbs, 80lbs and 100lbs limit extensions, etc..
Actually, there are extensions designed to use with impact sockets. The extensions designed for specific torque range are called torque sticks and they are useful for quickly installing wheel lugs after which a torque wrench should be used for final torque. For precise torque, the fastener should be torqued in 3 steps. For 100lbft the steps would be 50, 75, 100, i.e. each fastener would be torqued in turn to each step. In aircraft maintenance, this is required standard procedure.
@@jimandnena4 Right.. those are what I was referring to.. I've never used them, but I've seen videos
@@calholli The videos are good, but until you use one, it is difficult to explain "rebound" feeling. I got a set on Father's day from one of my boys. Both sons are mechanics so I get tools instead of the usual Father's day tie! The main users are tire shops, but I always re-torque the lugs to get the exact setting. I got a QUINN (HF) from the other son which I like, non-ratchet, with setting of 80 to 160 in 5 steps. Very fast AND I can see the settings without my cheater glasses (75 YO eyes).
@@jimandnena4 Well, I have several 2ft extensions and I've felt what it does.. It won't remove the bolt at all.. Then you pull the extension off and just put the socket directly on the impact--- and it busts the bolt loose with ease. It's just a fundamental thing that you need to remember when using an impact.
Good Job guys working together at the shop. Nice video, good Videographers work, and even learned something new. A total Win!
Well Done! Keep up the great job and good Luck for the TH-cam channel.
Please change that montage music lol the whistling one with "uh uh uhhh" one. It's in other videos also
As usual a great video. Very complicated but you solved the problem and entertained. Cool camping trip. Family time the best
Spring compressors are your friend 😏
lol.. Yeah. You can even rent them from any autoparts store, if you won't want to buy them.
That or pull down on one side...that usually does the truck.
Should have left the stock spacer and added the extra 1.5".
I am not a fan of compressing springs that are in your face.
Hay Tom. Just wanted to say I am enjoying your channel and I like how you're editing the videos. You're not telling us over and over what you're going to do, good mix of time lapse and live action.
Tom i see the problem you were using ball point hammer if you had used a claw hammer the bolts would've came out so much easier and 11% faster
I had an 00 XJ that was driven hard and put away wet for 220k miles.
I found that nothing short of replacing the entire front end suspension would fix the death wobble. Had to do it 3 times over my ownership.
Fortunately its easy and relatively inexpensive.
Hey Tom Tom. I like your videos, but I can’t take much more of the whistling song. I don’t want to add any negativity, but on your last video, I almost had to mute the video for the montages. It’s a hard one to listen to over and over again. If it’s just me, then I’ll cope. I understand it’s difficult to land on a signature sound track for a channel.
I'd have to say, "You are just a nitpicker!" 😉👍
Thank you Tom for sharing this information with me !
Hey Tom, I liked that you said you think your kids raised you right! Made me chuckle pretty well. Since my oldest also graduated high this year and will be moving out in August!
Love this build! Get some front control arm drop brackets. It will improve your ride quality by 500% no cap
Your editing is wonderful: Nice tight pace. Great narration. Anything repetitive you either fast forward or skip entirely. Never fallen asleep during one of your videos, which is something I do with others.
Love your patience, your attitude and your family. In addition to that you have great skill.
I started doing alignments on cars at the age of 11 with a tape measure for toe and bubbles for caster and camber! I did that for about 24 years ! Then I went to work for Les Schwab Tires doing alignments with a computer machine for another 20 years ! I still thing if done properly the tape measure and bubbles are more accurate! I like your channel just trying help!
Thanks for doing this video Tom. It confirms my beliefs about the resolution of my XJ issues. Time to get a full bushing kit.
Over the years of playing with xj’s I learned that the steering for a V8 grand Cherokee ZJ is much heavier duty then stock XJ steering. I had a stock tie rod snap in half going down the road in town and that was exciting to say the least. If you buy new or parts yard steering get the v8 zj and it bolts right in!
Idaho is also quite beautiful, thanks for bringing us with
Always a pleasure to see Tom and wife.
Tom, nice rehab! Adjustability is the key to good handling! Cool video!
Nice Job Tom! Great having your sweetheart helping! Thanks for a good Video!
Lol Watching a fly fishing rig used like a caster made me chuckle a bit. Looks like so much fun, though...but have that young man start with the movie "A River Runs Through It", and then go from there. ;)
Fly fishing done well is pure poetry, beautiful and sublime.
I Enjoy your content. I like your outro with the video suggestions an so forth as well. Thanks for informative and easily going content.
Tec tip, Even Matt does this. On solid axles, if you know your caster, you don't need to set the vehicle on the ground, a couple of angle iron botted to the face of the hub, you can measure much easier than utilizing your tires especially if you are by yourself doing the setting. Great vid though. It shows that adjustable arms ARE the way to go.. I 'd have also looked at all the Ball Joints for excess ware...
My old '55 Willys CJ-5 had a heck of a death wobble at 40 - 45 MPH! Almost shake your fillings out! I put a couple of steering dampers on it and it helped a bit. I have to add that 45 MPH was just about the top speed of the old girl.
25:06 THAT is the best way to do these things!!!... "No time like the present"
Nice job Tom-Tom. If you want extra caster without changing pinion angle, Specialty Products Company makes offset upper ball joints up to 2⁰ offset. They can be rotated in or out to correct camber issues too.
Great video all round Tom, and great family too. When I used to set up toe on front wheels I used two sticks 3 or 4 fit long, one on each wheel rim edges make a mark roughly in the middle of the two crossed over sticks with a pencil then move to the rear and do the same you get wo marks, from there you adjust to get the toe! I never measured on the tyres as they can be bulged or not on the rim perfect of just misshaped.