good grief who would have thought a these big lawn mower engines were so complex and detailed, nice looking heads haven't seen the cylinder lapping before, seems like a good idea
I know! I always tell people they are just 4 Briggs and Straton engines lashed together! I learned the cylinder lapping from am old guy. Really works to keep the leaking down.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius cool. I could not see them. Set your deck next time at 50 is my favorite. and get the rest of the fire in the head. I just worry about those heads getting ruined with the pistons hitting them. Usually it bends a rod. Which is much worse. Have the heads machined to get 9 to 1 and put an engle 110 in there. or fk7 with ratio rockers. Then it will be FUN.....
I've never seen cylinder/head lapping before. I've built 2 vw racing engines both 1300cc and never did that procedure and had no problems. Starting on a 1600cc dual port soon.
I have built several engines and never done that or seen it done. IMO Might cause an issue. you are not a machine. but the heads and cylinders were done on a machine. Easily could set that cylinder sideways a bit.
Couple of things I would do different......#1 I would not run 20 Thousands deck height........REALLY BAD........ the minimum deck I think is around 35 (which is sketchy) Deck height should be between 45 and 6 0. stock deck is 60. Rod stretch will cause pistons to hit head. at .20 Take that suck apart before it happens!!!!!!...... #2 I hope those are 87 thick wall cylinders. and 90.5 head openings. 87 thin wall are too thin and run hot. The heads should have been machined for a 50 or 60 deck. CC amount. #3I have NEVER......used valve grinding compound to seat a cylinder. and never needed to. They always have seated correctly. When your doing it like that you are not a machine. you could be making the surface uneven. Those heads should be machined flat so they will seat correctly when torqued. Not a big deal but not necessary and a step that could cause an issue. IMO. It is not like seating a valve. which you are using the guide to keep the valve straight. When your doing that your using your hands and that is not going to help anything. #4 I would have taken the valves out and cleaned up the ports. The exhaust can be cleaned up and get better flow. Cheap performance upgrade. also wedge port the intakes. Venturi port them would help the flow. #5 if your running a stock cam get Ratio rockers 1.25 to 1 and this will help But I always like to run a performance cam compression ratios for big valve and 87 thick wall should be 8,5 to 9 to 1. to get the best performance. Otherwise it could be kinda flat at the bottom end and want to rev high. But with a stock cam it wont do either. #6 also put the type 3 cool tin on the bottom. for the upgraded exhaust This will help keep it running cool.
Thanks Mike. I appreciate the input. I’ll probably run this till it explodes as the case isn’t worth saving. It’s got 10,000 on it now and runs great. It may developer problems later… I’ll have to go back to my notes. Im sure it’s closer to .32 than .20. If I said .20 I made a mistake.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius even 32 is too tight. I have heard some guys running 35 and when you pull the heads you can see the dark spots and shiny spots on the tops of the pistons. Did you put the deflector plates on there? I didnt see them go on.
Great stuff, I’m not far into the vid but so far so good. Glad you’re explaining things the way you are. Take the pistons out and check the ring gaps also, use a paint pen to mark cyl1, 2, etc. I’ll pick up the vid later when I have more time.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius Can somebody clarify. We are talking the studs that go into the head right? At the 14:10 mark it’s clearly stated that the blunt end goes in first, not the tapered end. Was this in error and the tapered end goes into the head? Thanks.
The factory service manual (pub by Bentley) has specific torqueing procedure for the heads, in 2 stages. One pattern to one torque, then another pattern to final torque - if I recall correctly.
Slades VW Beetle slowly but surely! Right now I have to find the damn parts I already got to finish putting it together. I am sure they are here somewhere...
Slades VW Beetle yeah... I have ordered 3 of the same part... 2 of another... I’m putting together the fan shroud and have the flaps etc to do the heat right, no idea where I put them.
Based on the deck height and the head volume it can out to about 7.5-8. I really didn’t cover that in the video because there are much better resources out there.
seeing those old jugs on the thumbnail reminded me of how many times iv had a VW case apart doing an engine. almost everyone i know has a bunch of VW parts and engines, trannies. i love messing with them. P.S. nothing like hearing a throaty built engine with singing Weber carbs.
Good idea for a video! It’s doing great. I’ve got about 5,000mi on it and seems fine. It’s due viral an oil change and valve check in 1,000 more. I’m in transition right now to a new house, so an update soon on that as well.
@@soggz4246 they are, but none of the engine builders I’ve ever seen or learned from use them. I’m sure from the VW factory they were used, and all the castings were smooth and perfect. Not so much any more.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius don’t you lap the surfaces in then? The only company that I know that don’t use gaskets, are Rolls Royce, isn’t it? As they are blueprinted components. I’m building an engine at this moment in time and was advised to use the paper gaskets, but to ‘oil’ them first. Only what I’ve been told by a 65 year old VW Aircooled engine builder. Just retorque the heads every 5000 miles.👍🏾🛠
@@soggz4246 Yeah, everyone builds them slightly different. I left the cylinders to the heads, but not to the case. And I just use the Pirma tech gasket material making stuff rather than the paper ones. If you look at a vintage gasket kit, compared to the new ones, the new ones are so much thinner. Even the Earling are super thin. It works well for me. Good luck with your build.
I know it’s difficult to create a video and make sure you correctly put an engine together at the same time. It’s like you need two brains to get both things done. Try narrating over the video during editing to free up part of your brain?
Hey there! I noticed you did not use any assembly lube or anything like that, if your doing a top end rebuild should you use any sort of assembly lube on the pushrods? Great video by the way and thank you!
@@noahgarbutt9971 I’m sure I gave them a squirt. Might not have made it to video. I actually did everything a couple times while making that. On off on off double check :)
@@Misunderstoodboygenius ohhh okay I did not see that then, so prelude everything and then would you do any start up procedure to make sure the lifters mate with the cam properly and the the oil reaches the rockers? Sorry for all the questions I’m just doing a top end rebuild on my 1600cc and it’s my first ever engine build lol
After I got it all together I spun by hand a few revs with the covers off to make sure all seated right. Then before starting disconnect the coil and spin for a while after the oil pressure light goes out to make sure oil is getting everywhere. Then start. Hope that helps.
Best video ever on putting heads back on VW! Thank you!!
Well thanks!
good grief
who would have thought a these big lawn mower engines were so complex and detailed, nice looking heads
haven't seen the cylinder lapping before, seems like a good idea
I know! I always tell people they are just 4 Briggs and Straton engines lashed together! I learned the cylinder lapping from am old guy. Really works to keep the leaking down.
ONE MORE THING......I didnt see the Deflector plates under the cylinders?????? cool tin. or type 3 tin would be nice.
Oh no, I got those in 100%! I have a set of OG type 3 for the next one 😉
@@Misunderstoodboygenius cool. I could not see them. Set your deck next time at 50 is my favorite. and get the rest of the fire in the head. I just worry about those heads getting ruined with the pistons hitting them. Usually it bends a rod. Which is much worse. Have the heads machined to get 9 to 1 and put an engle 110 in there. or fk7 with ratio rockers. Then it will be FUN.....
I've never seen cylinder/head lapping before. I've built 2 vw racing engines both 1300cc and never did that procedure and had no problems. Starting on a 1600cc dual port soon.
I learned it a long time ago. I guess back when we had crappy heads. Helps them seal better is what I was told.
I have built several engines and never done that or seen it done. IMO Might cause an issue. you are not a machine. but the heads and cylinders were done on a machine. Easily could set that cylinder sideways a bit.
I feelyour pain Im doing Mine on the ground out side too LOL
forgot your cooling tin geoff
I have done hundreds of these motors . Later close eyes. DAM GO MOTORS DROVE THE HELL OUT OF THEM ON PROBLEMS BEST VW MOTORS.
Couple of things I would do different......#1 I would not run 20 Thousands deck height........REALLY BAD........ the minimum deck I think is around 35 (which is sketchy) Deck height should be between 45 and 6 0. stock deck is 60. Rod stretch will cause pistons to hit head. at .20 Take that suck apart before it happens!!!!!!......
#2 I hope those are 87 thick wall cylinders. and 90.5 head openings. 87 thin wall are too thin and run hot. The heads should have been machined for a 50 or 60 deck. CC amount.
#3I have NEVER......used valve grinding compound to seat a cylinder. and never needed to. They always have seated correctly. When your doing it like that you are not a machine. you could be making the surface uneven. Those heads should be machined flat so they will seat correctly when torqued. Not a big deal but not necessary and a step that could cause an issue. IMO. It is not like seating a valve. which you are using the guide to keep the valve straight. When your doing that your using your hands and that is not going to help anything.
#4 I would have taken the valves out and cleaned up the ports. The exhaust can be cleaned up and get better flow. Cheap performance upgrade. also wedge port the intakes. Venturi port them would help the flow.
#5 if your running a stock cam get Ratio rockers 1.25 to 1 and this will help But I always like to run a performance cam compression ratios for big valve and 87 thick wall should be 8,5 to 9 to 1. to get the best performance. Otherwise it could be kinda flat at the bottom end and want to rev high. But with a stock cam it wont do either.
#6 also put the type 3 cool tin on the bottom. for the upgraded exhaust This will help keep it running cool.
Thanks Mike. I appreciate the input. I’ll probably run this till it explodes as the case isn’t worth saving. It’s got 10,000 on it now and runs great. It may developer problems later… I’ll have to go back to my notes. Im sure it’s closer to .32 than .20. If I said .20 I made a mistake.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius even 32 is too tight. I have heard some guys running 35 and when you pull the heads you can see the dark spots and shiny spots on the tops of the pistons. Did you put the deflector plates on there? I didnt see them go on.
Great stuff, I’m not far into the vid but so far so good. Glad you’re explaining things the way you are. Take the pistons out and check the ring gaps also, use a paint pen to mark cyl1, 2, etc.
I’ll pick up the vid later when I have more time.
Thanks! It’s loooong! But thorough.
Maybe this was asked already.. what size engine does it become with all this work done? Thanks
Always put the nose (tapered) end in first! If the blunt end goes in first it can causes cracking at the bottom of the threaded hole when torqued!
Good tip! I forgot to mention that.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius Can somebody clarify. We are talking the studs that go into the head right? At the 14:10 mark it’s clearly stated that the blunt end goes in first, not the tapered end. Was this in error and the tapered end goes into the head? Thanks.
You do need the lash caps. They add surface area as well as being a more durable metal. I see no reason to space the rocker arm assembly.
At the beginning of the video he says he's using 87mm slip-in's. What does the "slip in" part mean? Thanks.
They are 87mm pistons instead of 85, but they fit in the same hole without machining. So they “slip in”.
The factory service manual (pub by Bentley) has specific torqueing procedure for the heads, in 2 stages. One pattern to one torque, then another pattern to final torque - if I recall correctly.
It does. I’m not really trying to make instructional videos so much. More my experience while working on these cars.
Did you put any kind of sealer between the push rod tubes and the push rod tube gaskets, or, between the push rod tube gaskets and the head or block?
I used some Permatex on there. To keep them in place and to seal any gaps.
Are those for a 1600 stock
The jugs are slip in for a stack 1600 case so no need to machine.
Great video very helpfull thankyou
Is that a transmission jack you are using to hold the engine? I like that.
I think it’s a motorcycle or atv jack. It fits great and makes the job so much easier!
One thing I know you didn't do was check deck hight unless you did it off camera
@@dennishollon9599 I did off camera. Not really meant as a tutorial, just sharing what I did.
Good job! I was wondering when you were going to use those new toys you got in the mail. I really like those heads, I’ve been reading a lot on them.
Slades VW Beetle slowly but surely! Right now I have to find the damn parts I already got to finish putting it together. I am sure they are here somewhere...
Misunderstoodboygenius 😂😂 oh I do that all the time. I know I will have a part, it takes me 30 years to find it LOL
Slades VW Beetle yeah... I have ordered 3 of the same part... 2 of another... I’m putting together the fan shroud and have the flaps etc to do the heat right, no idea where I put them.
Misunderstoodboygenius Do you mean the thermostat rod?
what compression ratio you using ?
Based on the deck height and the head volume it can out to about 7.5-8. I really didn’t cover that in the video because there are much better resources out there.
I’ve seen people do a grind like that
It works well to seat the head and piston better.
seeing those old jugs on the thumbnail reminded me of how many times iv had a VW case apart doing an engine. almost everyone i know has a bunch of VW parts and engines, trannies. i love messing with them. P.S. nothing like hearing a throaty built engine with singing Weber carbs.
How do you know the condition of the camshaft?
I don’t. But no clunking from the bottom end and everything has worked fine for almost a year.
Hi mate, hows the engine holding up after one year?
Good idea for a video! It’s doing great. I’ve got about 5,000mi on it and seems fine. It’s due viral an oil change and valve check in 1,000 more. I’m in transition right now to a new house, so an update soon on that as well.
I think you forgot your heat shields
There’s a whole other video on those.
Good job but I would use a plastic dead blow or wooden hammer for most of the work you where doing JUST FYI ..
I used rubber mallets and the wooden but of a mallet handle if I recall. No steel to aluminum I don’t think. Good advice.
you didn't have to ask. you forgot the under cylinder cool tin. and then you still forgot it.
🤣 It’s in now though...
@@Misunderstoodboygenius "It"? There are 2 of them, one for cylinders 3 and 4, one for cylinders 1 and 2.
@@soilmanted They’re? Them’s? They’s?
@@Misunderstoodboygenius Any of dem dere pronouns should work.
You forgot the paper base gasket for the cylinders.
Not really needed, or even thick enough to do anything. I use permatex for a much better seal and it conforms to irregularities.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius ok.
But they ARE included in a engine gasket kit…
@@soggz4246 they are, but none of the engine builders I’ve ever seen or learned from use them. I’m sure from the VW factory they were used, and all the castings were smooth and perfect. Not so much any more.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius don’t you lap the surfaces in then?
The only company that I know that don’t use gaskets, are Rolls Royce, isn’t it? As they are blueprinted components.
I’m building an engine at this moment in time and was advised to use the paper gaskets, but to ‘oil’ them first.
Only what I’ve been told by a 65 year old VW Aircooled engine builder.
Just retorque the heads every 5000 miles.👍🏾🛠
@@soggz4246 Yeah, everyone builds them slightly different. I left the cylinders to the heads, but not to the case. And I just use the Pirma tech gasket material making stuff rather than the paper ones. If you look at a vintage gasket kit, compared to the new ones, the new ones are so much thinner. Even the Earling are super thin. It works well for me. Good luck with your build.
Should not have to beat on the pistons like that !! Geez
.6 Newtons too hard I know.
Good video... you have shared some useful information here... thank you!
Most welcomed
Oil the rings first , guy !!!!
It was done.
I know it’s difficult to create a video and make sure you correctly put an engine together at the same time. It’s like you need two brains to get both things done.
Try narrating over the video during editing to free up part of your brain?
Good idea! Next year when I do the whole thing from the (new) case up!
Hey there! I noticed you did not use any assembly lube or anything like that, if your doing a top end rebuild should you use any sort of assembly lube on the pushrods? Great video by the way and thank you!
I used Lucas assembly lube on the small ends and in the cylinders. I thought for sure I showed that. Hmm... trust me, I did.
@@Misunderstoodboygenius oh yes I saw that but I mean on the top end, pushrod ends and rockers?
@@noahgarbutt9971 I’m sure I gave them a squirt. Might not have made it to video. I actually did everything a couple times while making that. On off on off double check :)
@@Misunderstoodboygenius ohhh okay I did not see that then, so prelude everything and then would you do any start up procedure to make sure the lifters mate with the cam properly and the the oil reaches the rockers? Sorry for all the questions I’m just doing a top end rebuild on my 1600cc and it’s my first ever engine build lol
After I got it all together I spun by hand a few revs with the covers off to make sure all seated right. Then before starting disconnect the coil and spin for a while after the oil pressure light goes out to make sure oil is getting everywhere. Then start. Hope that helps.