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Why "Animation Is Cinema" Has Lost Its Meaning
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2024
- In the beginning of 2023, the phrase "animation is cinema" took off, becoming a slogan used to try and make animation be seen as a legitimate art form. By the end of 2023 though, the original meaning of the phrase was long gone, and it has since become a joke now.
In today's video, I go over why "animation is cinema" is a phrase that no longer holds any merit, and why it has caused more harm than good to the reputation of animation.
How about instead of animation is cinema, how about “animation can be cinema”.
but anything can be cinema
@@sxmbxdy exactly
Agreed
That honestly makes much more sense than “Animation IS Cinema,” because it’s not always gonna be like that. That applies to movies in general. They’re not always gonna be instant masterpieces. And that’s coming from someone who made a video with the title being “Animation is Cinema.”
With the knuckleheads I run into that will imply that animation have´t reached "cinema" level yet. It´s just simple, animation is cinema, comedy are cinema, etc etc. But it depends on people. Some will be die hard and say only adult animation can be cinema, others the opposite and then 2D vs 3D discorce and it´s just a mess. Dose´t matter, if you think something is good then it is. If you can´t be bothered to listen to someones opinion then there is no conversation.
Cartoonshi brought up a great point in his video regarding the critics vs audience discourse over the Mario movie, He mentioned how the same people who insist that "Animation is Cinema" will defend animated movies that aren't well recieved with the excuse of "It's just a dumb kids movie!, it's not supposed to be good!" These people can't make up their minds.
Do people hate Disney that much to the point where they think Trolls and migration are masterpieces ?
Yes.
No. Disney is a madly woke company that puts out propaganda and other than that, if their movies haven’t contained some sort of political agenda then it was just bad. With that being said I’m not going to go watch the entire Trolls franchise or Migration.
Sadly yes they even prefer the Asylum like... Someday is enough
@@Simbala-bq5vymigration is a good movie
That and the Netflix Leo Movie and the Mario Movie
Problem is they spam the same 4 movies by mainstream studios calling it cinema and completely ignore less popular films
The main problem is that the people parading this shit around are the terminally online cartoon avatars who can't handle anything out of their safe space and comfort zone. They're so soft and can't handle anything that isn't rated above PG at worst. Tell them to watch anything that isn't Paw Patrol or Bluey and they'll start hyperventilating. Oh what's that, you think animation is cinema? What did you think of Invincible Season 2? "I didn't watch it"
Animation is cinema. Now go watch Felidae. Eureka Seven. Fruits Basket. Dofus. Being an edgy teenager by saying stuff like “being in your animation safe space of Paw Patrol” is the most childish take I’ve ever heard. Cinema does not mean edgy blood and guts and shock value schlock. Animation is more than just the two extremes in the same way cinema is more than just Rosebud and Keep the change ya filthy animal.
@@twilightguardian Referring to Invincible as "edgy blood and guts shock value shlock" kind of shows how ignorant and close-minded you are. If you actually watched Invincible you would've known that it's much more than "muh blood", and in my opinion it's a great example of how animation can be used to tell amazing stories, while delivering entertainment that you can't get with live action.
@@ToastyMann nice argument, but I just took a dumpy wumpy in your underwear drawer 😎
@@ToastyMann The main problem with adult mainstream animation these days is exactly the “muh blood”: animation is so stereotyped to be nothing more than “child’s fair” here in the West that in order for “adult” animation to be taken seriously you have to have nothing more than the likes of ‘Family Guy’ and *especially* ‘Mr. Pickles’, which is why ‘BoJack’ was such a fresh air: truly “mature” and “adult” themes, but with nuance and without blood and gore, excessive swearing just for shock value and the sexual content wasn’t the John K. “tits all over the place”-type.
I watched a little bit of “Invincible”, and while, yeah, it’s probably the most *realistic* look at the superhero-genre, lol, it’s just not for me.
But that doesn’t mean I won’t create or enjoy more “adult” content just as much as “PG”-fair when it is *done right*.
@@ToastyMann I didn’t refer to Invincible as gore schlock. You interpreted it that way because you got personally offended I don’t care much for the overly bloody and comically childishly violent theatrics within Invincible. I was referring to “adult” content as a whole being either only sex or gratuitous violence. Invincible may have a couple of deeper themes in it than that but there’s no denying an outsider to the show likely only knows about how bloody and violent it is, not how deep the themes are or how much it makes you think. It’s the inverse and just as problematic because the show does get marketed as “mature” because of how much blood and brain matter you can see in it and it’s not for kids because of it. If understanding that makes me closed minded then at least I’m glad my brain doesn’t fall out of my skull.
The problem with the ppl in the cartoon community who scream 'animation is cinema' is that they unironically gas up media made for children and only children.
There's nothing wrong with watching media made for children, but theres a clear line between gassing up something like avatar/korra, gravity falls, spiderverse and spectacular spiderman and gassing up something like trolls or the paw patrol movie. Both are made with children as the target demographic but one is clearly made for ppl of all ages in mind and can appeal to general audiences, while the other is made for literal 5 year olds.
Dont get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with animated media being made just for young kids, they deserve media specifically made for them just as we deserve media made just for us, but going around and expecting claiming stuff like paw patrol is cinema is in no way going to help the reputation that animation has in the west and honestly it makes you look insecure for watching stuff like that, you should just say that you like it for what it is instead of screaming 'animation is cinema!!!!!' and expect the mainstream to take western animation seriously.
They also constantly complain about how western adult animation is just filled with cheap family guy and rick and morty clones (which is true btw), but then refuse to give shows like primal, unicorn warriors eternal, love death robots or tear along the dotted line a chance. Its honestly a miracle that they even bothered to give invincible and arcane a chance
Tell me about it. Like these people didn’t show support for Blue Eye Samurai despite Netflix properly promoting it.
I’m an animation fan and I have watched almost everything you’ve mentioned( everything except for tear along the dotted line and Arcane)
I have never heard anyone refer to the mario movie as cinema
It's probably because you haven't been on Twitter
It’s one of the main reasons I think as to why no one takes those three words anymore. One account kept spamming it and three other movies from within the last year or so like Spiderverse or Mitchells VS. the Machines as cinema and people got tired of that because even if they’re good movies. One might think they need more time before they can be considered one of the all time greats. So that started a trend of it’s own where people who use the same three words but actually use it on movies that deserve or need the attention. Not that Spiderverse doesn’t deserve the attention, but sometimes social media just needs bigger variety.
Mario Movie is a masterpiece just like Puss in Boots 2. Need 2 open your eyes, lol😂💀
@@LordTylerBluGunderson Puss in Boots is on like a whole other level dude. Don’t even kid yourself.
@@boydixonentertainment There’s like, one or two really cool scenes here and there. The rest is just a generic kid adventure movie. Overrated.
I really like your point of view as to why "Animation is Cinema" is losing its meaning. I agree that not all animated films aren't made as equal to each other. Examples, Wall-E and Trolls. Animation as a median has powerful to adapt into many different scenario and genres for kids, adults or even both to enjoy.
However, the way you talk about adults liking kids media isn't just for nostalgia. As you said all not all animated films are made equal. The same apply to shows made for kids. I won't say that Thomas the Tank Engine is a masterpiece, but it does do fine enjoyment.
As much as I respect your statement, as a fellow animation fan, IMO, you're probably very wrong to downplay Thomas the Tank Engine in general as not being a masterpiece. In anything, if you've ever known a bit more about the franchise, especially about the Railway Series and the earlier model seasons from the 80s and 90s, you'd know that the Rev. W Awdry never intended Thomas to merely be a preschool series, but rather for anyone to enjoy, from its realistic railway lore, to the actually realistic interactions of the characters.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Thomas's franchise history parallels the history of animation itself, initially being made for all audiences, only for cooperates to change it into a product for babies once it got handed into the wrong hands. Again, at least you respect the franchise as being something enjoyable, but this statement still slightly reeks of ignorance.
Edit: I just watched more of the video, so I understand where you're coming from a bit more.
@@sericsmith5770 I can see where you're coming from too, I agree on how the perception of Thomas the Tank Engine and Animation change over time. And how the Rev. W Awdry doesn't intend the series to be catered to just children it for everyone to enjoy. Thank you for your comment.
@@ianmurphy3840 You're welcome, and thank you very much for your understanding.
@@sericsmith5770Quick question, was the newer show hated by fans generally due to them changing the orginal tone to a 2d, childish tone?
Saying this because I heard kids that watch and liked the older show hated and even cried when they watched the newer show.
It's always the same mid-tier 2020s Pixar movie or Studio Ghibli film they use to illustrate their point. Which would be fair enough, but there's almost no recognition or discussion of anything outside of the commercial blockbusters that everybody and their nan's pet hamster knows of, and you're lucky if they even have any knowledge of anything made outside of the USA or Japan, and before 1990. Chances are they likely think that Yugoslavian cartoons are just 'weird trippy commie shit' or that Richard Williams is their plumber. It's literally just Twitter kids wanting their new favourite film validated and seen as 'art'.
Also, let's be real, animation always was cinema. It didn't need a pretentious slogan to make people see that. The fucking Looney Tunes started off as cinematic shorts, literally the most ancient, early 1900s animation done on a chalkboard was shown in small cinemas. Animation found life in the cinema, they're pretty much inseparable.
I think the enjoyment from mario comes to being a fan of the games, and how they adapted it.
As a fan of Mario, yes. The best thing about that movie was the references to the game. And the animation, it was really good
I understand that you're not into anime and that's OK. You don't have to like anime and nobody should force you to, but there's one constructive criticism: Not every anime is "high school L word garbage". By that logic, "Doraemon", "Dragon Ball", "Sailor Moon", "Pokémon", "Beyblade", "Future Police Urashiman", "Samurai Pizza Cats", "Crayon Shin-chan", "Lupin III", and everything else that is Japanese animation is "high school L word garbage", therefore it's "automatically bad". I don't like it when people generalize animation from a different country as just one thing, it's just like saying "all Canadian animation is flash animation and toilet humor therefore they're automatically bad" even though that's not entirely true either.
Also, there's nothing wrong with watching and liking kids' shows outside of the target demographic. Sure, obsession is like poison and people shouldn't obsess towards things they like or hate (trust me, I've been obsessed with the movie Thomas and the Magic Railroad and the actor Michael E. Rodgers who played Mr. Conductor's cousin, but nowadays I just have a soft spot towards them and can accept that they're not perfect and not everyone's gonna like them. I also once obsessed toward the Teletubbies even when I wasn't a preschooler anymore, but nowadays I'm just neutral towards it and realized the harsh truth that it isn't the best preschool show), but not everyone outside of the target demographic is obsessed with the kids' shows they watch. They either treat them like simple enjoyment just for fun or just a childhood favorite, but not to the point of obsession.
Anyways, those are just my personal opinions and criticisms, have a nice day.
I get it, this is why I think anime is more humorous than a lot of TV shows from America because they're terrible, anime makes me look at the simpsons and say it's terrible. I've hated the simpsons for a few years now because of the simpsons movie, that movie is the worst movie ever made in existence because it's themes are so poorly executed. It made me hate everything simpsons related with a few exceptions.
12:07 say what you want about trolls being “generic and safe” kids movies. But the thing with them that they have a really nice artsyle and animation. Something more experimental than other animated movies. Now I wouldn’t call them “cinema” but I will say that they have a sort of charm to them that I like. Especially the second one
Y'know what? I totally agree. The Trolls films are underrated. Not good, but definitely underrated
Yeah, thats where he kinda lost me. Have not seen the first two, but saw the third troll movie recently, and while not "cinema" I still enjoyed it a lot cause it was just such a good vibe movie with great music. Not everything needs to be a "masterpiece" to be enjoyable.
Trolls is why it lost it meaning because too be honest Trolls feels like insult to animation being a kiddie thing so I'm not touching Trolls for rendering animation as kids thing is an insult especially from an anime fan
@@andreafraustoz The "Trolls" franchise is fun. I love how they animate textures.
@@andreafraustoz idk man, just cuz it’s made for kids doesn’t make it an “insult to animation”. It’s simply just a fun kids flick with really nice visuals. They actually respect the art. Just cuz you think that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have anything to offer. Better than wish at least
Guillermo del toro's pinocchio is beautiful
I seem to recall a LOT of heavy (deserved) criticism of Ruby Gillman, Teenage Kraken back when it was released. I don't think we let Dreamworks off the hook for that one because "it wasn't Disney," and I've never heard anyone describe that crushing disappointment as "real cinema." As for Migration, well, do we really expect Illumination to rise above the level of Mid? They've never had an interest in making anything of genuine high quality.
I agree that Golden Age Pixar and PIB: The Last Wish and Across the Spider-Verse can be enjoyed by any age. But please don't leave The Secret of Kells, Song of the Sea, Wolfwalkers, and The Breadwinner out of the equation. Cartoon Saloon deserves more love, especially since they seem to be the only Western animation studio still releasing high-quality 2D fare (although I admit My Father's Dragon was a bit of a disappointment).
Re: moving on to stuff more my age -- I freely acknowledge I'm still fond of "Fraggle Rock," from the early 1980s (right when I was leaving childhood behind and entering adolescence). Obsessed? Far from it. But I still find it a smarter show, with more likable characters, than "Friends."
Imagine saying Migration is just another mediocre Illumination movie😂💀
@@LordTylerBluGundersonyou can’t go being toxic over someone not liking a film
@@DilanCommunications Lol, I’m not trying to be that toxic at all. Disagreeing with someone else’s opinion isn’t being “toxic”.
There was a really annoying trend where people would say “animation is cinema”but only focus on movies like Puss in Boots or Guillermo Del Toro’s Pinocchio. What they were really saying was “good mainstream animation is cinema”
12:12 There's a TH-camr called Trollsbandtogether Fan2001 who's an adult and is overly obsessed with Trolls. It's really embarrassing honestly.
Your view on anime seems pretty narrow minded. To just say that you have a strong distate for anime only because of shallow reasons like "ewww the degenerate high school L WORD garbage" really says how much knowledge you have on the genre. And I'm not even an anime guy, I'm far from being a weeb, but you should at least give anime a chance, to just trash a countrie's entire animation industry because you've developed this dumb stigma that every anime is just "highschool L WORD garbage" is quite silly. I'm just saying, Porco Rosso is a banger, trust me brah.
I think another problem with the "animation is cinema" quote is that most people who use it only use it on more modern films or movies that came out at the same time they were born in. Like films from the 90s-Now. If people want the words "animation is cinema" to be taken seriously, why not bring up some stuff from the older generations? Like Disney films from the 40s-80s, The Thief and the Cobbler (despite it being unfinished and butchered in the 90s by Miramax), The Land Before Time, etc. There's a lot to those movies that offer just as much, if not more than a lot of the modern animated films people talk about (insensitively dated elements and stereotypes aside). Not to discredit the Puss in Boots or Spiderverse, but as great as those films are, people need to realize that a massive quote like this should be used to showcase all eras of animation. Not just the ones they grew up in.
Well, I have to admit that my favorite film of all time isnt a masterpiece according to the critica. Say what they want about Nahuel y el Libro Mágico/Nahuel and the Magic Book, but the way the animation, the art style, the characters and music was inspired from other projects (Studio Ghibli, Future Boy Conan, Song of the Sea, Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, etc) gives me a reason to bring my love and enjoyment to animation back.
📖🏃🌊💙
Not all anime is that way. Im not even really an anime guy I've only seen a few and I know for a fact a lot of anime isnt that way. That view you have is just the stereotypical view that a lot of people have on the genre.
Oh sweetheart, you think this is new? You think this hasn’t been a fight for over 40 years?
I get your point but isn't it the same gatekeeping as animation detractors?
Well yes but no
I actually really love Cars.
As a (almost)23 year old man, i really enjoy the mario movie for 2 times, even if this movie is not as incredible as some of the great masterpieces like the lion king, shrek, ratatouille, toy story and even the recent puss in boots 2 or spiderverse movies
Nah, Mario Movie and Puss in Boots 2 are on the same level.
my biggest issue with the use of the phrase “animation is cinema” is that people always only list movies mostly intended for kids. that’s not to say they aren’t good, a lot of them are fantastic like the main ones you listed. however, what about the super ambitious animated movies intended for older teens and adults like a lot of the movies from studio ghibli or what not? they barely get brought up even though they deserve to, they are cinema. this makes your point about animation looking like more of a kids’ genre to more people all the more true and sadly so.
Tbh, i dont care about Cinema in general. I just want everyone to watch any films/movies they like without looking down upon each other like bellow human. Like why can't anyone get along?
You know, another animated movie I'd use for Cinema is the classic Disney movie the Iron Giant. The Irong Giant is the Ghibli movie of Disney. Its just like Totoro, a kid befriends a nice strange creature/figure. A very nice and original idea for a disney story if you ask me or anyone who watches nothing but the golden age stuff.
Also people tend to forget that sony animation made the emoji movie and like 20 other bad movies like all the smurf movies, are we gonna cut them slack cus they make two half decent spider man films
12:12 oh… you’d be surpirsed
What do you mean?
Gatekeeping cartoons is crazy.
To be honest, the only reason people truly cared about the mario movie is the peaches song because it's meant to be the viral tiktok hit. The let it go of the movie.
I like the Mario 2023 movie cause 1 Mario games are a huge part of my life and 2 it's an improvement of the 30 year old version which may have been the first movie based on a game but didn't feel like Mario either
Ruby Gillman Teenage Kraken is just the Turning Red of DreamWorks.
One person said it's an original film, but it's basically a DreamWorks version of Turning Red and Luca.
YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH WALL E RECOGNITION! Finally.
Zerex: "If you want animation to be seen as a legitimate art form, don't use a lot of modern day movies" Me who has got all the underrated gems from the 90s to the mid 2010's:
He didn’t grow up in the 90s
Huh now it's suddenly like "Live action with CGI (probably with superheroes) is cinema". That's not right. Animation is cinema, yes, but it's much more! Animation is not just for kids! It's for everyone! It IS an art form. We had animation within our childhood along with games, but we had our imagination with it and wanted to make our own things, our own fiction. We sculpted out of clay and drew! (Or it was just me?)
But what if, kids grew up with live-action education things and then watch animation when they're older then?
*ANIMATION IS FOR EVERYONE!!!* *Writing must be peak!!!!* That's it! It's simple really.
Superhero movies are just so bad nowadays. Mainly from Marvel and DC. They are always catering 2 the female audience instead of their predominantly male audience. It’s like you decide the sport of football is going to be played only by women and women coaches only. How would males feel about that?😂
23:09 I can relate to that, out of nowhere on instagram, I found out that strawberry shortcake was rebooted in 2021 and whenever I look at a post from the official account that has to do with this reboot, I find nothing but negative comments saying bad things about the reboot like, “this isn’t the one that I remember”, “bring back the old one” And I’m like, who cares, it’s still strawberry shortcake and from what I’ve seen from it, the show is just a harmless reboot with some cute character designs and that’s it, but the hate that it gets, is very stupid
while I mostly agree with you so far, you kinda lost me halfway. Not every movie needs to be a masterpiece to be enjoyable. I'm an adult with love for animation since I can think and I'd still enjoy the mario movie and even watched and loved trolls3. Yes, these are not masterpiece like puss in boots 2 or old disney, but they are fun silly little movies with good vibes, that know exactly what they are and embrace it instead of pretending to be more than that, and sometimes that it is all you need for a good time.
Heck this kind of mindset is pretty much what harm the AAA video game market right now, with every AAA title having to be like the fart... uuuh last of us, while indi developers put out a lot of games that are not as "grant" but highly enjoyable.
Not saying that there is no dumb trash out there, but that doesn't justify to shit on everything that doesn't want to go for big and meaningfull.
Also I'd argue that old disney movie at least still get acknowldged. What about dreamworks 2D classics? Haven't seen road to eldorado yet in the new dreamworks intro
Mario Movie’s a masterpiece like Puss in Boots 2. That’s just your opinion, lol.
24:05 what about Encanto is bland and safe? Like at this time Disney made the masterpieces not DreamWorks Illumination and Sony
Encanto is bland and generic, lol. That’s just your opinion.
@@LordTylerBluGunderson People's most opinion.
Bet I hate Spiderverse and mario but hey it's just my opinion 😉
@@Simbala-bq5vyYou got no taste bud..
@@amazingfilmuniverse105 Well don't care Blud.
I feel ashamed really for someone who is craving more animated movies I never experience before so when I see the animation is cinema quote go around I just don't understand since it didn't make sense to me. I desperately want that experience that will make say that quote seriously
I don’t trust modern studios anymore. Just prefer my own fan made material. They’re either
1. Can get dark at times, but get WAY too goofy not long after
or 2. It’s just another plain kids flick that I do not care to see and probably never will.
Cannot wait for AI animation 2 get way more advanced in the next year or two so that I can create better shit than the movies nowadays.
After hearing that upcoming Zelda mobie is gonna be live action it makes question "What's it gonna take for this world to understand animation is for every age instead of just kids"
That’s the thing. Most of animation IS FOR KIDS! That’s why the stereotype is always being passed around. It’s gonna take way more dark and mature animated stories 2 convince the general audience. One, two, or three in the span of a year or two aren’t enough.
@@LordTylerBluGundersonI would have liked Zelda to be an animated movie with a PG-13 since some of the games are rated T for Teen
Hey Zerex, if we can ever talk, Can I show and talk to you about the movies I use for the Cinema Level? If we can, that would be great. Thank you Zerex. If you're reading this that is.
What a shame animation in general isn't what is used to be anymore. And I don't mean just the plots, soundtracks or acting, but also the variety of styles which used to coexist with each other... Until for no reason whatsoever, everyone got way too convenient because of the cheap CGI which at first glance may look good, but unfortunately it lacks the charm of the hand-drawn cartoons, claymation's magic etc. Without this variety, the movie industry's become so awful You can't enjoy the new stuff, no matter if You watch it in the cinema, TV or online. I never thought animation & video games are for kids only, because both are for everyone, no matter the sex, race, faith or nationality.
I’m still in love with Thomas and Blue! I will never let it go. I’ll still have it in the back of my mind!
And not every Disney movie is going to be week like there 2022 animated movies
That’s the thing…they are
Watch more anime. Watch Monster. Watch Mamoru Hosoda, Satoshi Kon, or Makoto Shinkai films. Watch Beck. Watch edgerunners. Watch death note. Watch Ano Hana. It’s clear to me the reason you’re not hearing anybody talk about anime as part of “animation is cinema” is because you’re ignoring anime under this juvenile delusion that 98% of anime is stereotypical wankbait.
Watch Detective Conan as well
it's super underrated in the west, but it's pretty good
@@davidholanda1No one has time for million episodes. Like One Piece watching Detective Conan for more than fifty episodes means turning it into a part of your lifestyle. I am still catching up to Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, so I can't add another eternal show to the watch list.
@@genyakozlov1316 then just skip the anime-original episodes/fillers altogether and just watch the canon episodes
There's +400 canon episodes, so you're cutting 60% of the anime you won't be needing to watch
I'd suggest following the Xerblade's Important Episode guide on Detective Conan if you don't want to waste several months in watching +1000 episodes and just skip to the most important ones
only mamoru hosoda movies ive seen are digimon birth of koromon and our war game
@@davidholanda1400+ episodes is still a shit ton of epsiodes
I can 100% understand your point made in 23:09, I always hear people saying they’re glad that they grew up with the old version of a children’s show or say the the new version of bob the builder or strawberry shortcake is bad because it’s different from what they remember, then again, the remakes were clearly made for the new generation and not the old generation. At there core the remakes are decent. Those older generations who grew up with the old should move on and watch or hate on something towards their demographic and not something made for kids. Hating on a reboot just because, “it’s not how I remember” is very stupid. Unless it’s has serious issues towards the reboot itself, then I can understand.
if you gonna make a reboot or remake of something, you should expect fans of the original thing to return
fair point@@edwardsaldana2534
That Bob the builder reboot was awful.
@@jskywalker58Unless it’s absolute dogwater and/or woke, lol.
Yeah, this does sum up my thoughts on the whole “animation is cinema” argument, with people unironically using a Nintendo commercial as their proof.
-Also, as a certified “A Bug's Life” fan, its exclusion is a crime-
Mario was only popular because its Mario
If disney made a movie about idk an animated Minecraft movie of course people will popularize it.
Also that older disney movie gets hate is just dumb like why do people now hate the little mermaid the lion king and so on? Like these were one of the best animated no one of the best movies of all time. Also Hunchback of Notre dame is also a movie that kid enjoys and as a adult you appreciate it, disney made a dark masterpiece with this one
I didn't know animation fans started hating on classic Disney content, I thought this was mostly modern Disney like Turning Red, Lightyear, Strange World, Wish, The Live Action Remakes, and even Raya doesn't seem that great from what I've heard Schaffrilla saying.
@@jonahboris6681 It's sometimes the old Disney content. They mostly don't vote for the Disney one even though it's from a good Disney movie because it's from Disney
Oh. Are people really starting to hate the Disney classics? That's dumb.
@@hugocastilla3102 Some people are hating the revival era wich is dumb :/
@@hugocastilla3102 Also the Disney main cast (Mickey Donald and Goofy ) also get hate sometimes mostly Mickey
16:26 thank you!!! They are corporate bland Easter egg movies that rely solely not nostalgia while having horrible stories
you should make a "Why I Don't Like Anime" video
Also what is really baffling to me is that no one uses as being "Cinema" are movies like Studio Ghibli Movies like My Neighbor Totoro and Kikis Delivery Service and the 3 original Sailor Moon Movies because those movies have deep meanings behind them and they are Movies you find cool as a kid but are really appreciative as you get older. Plus Sailor Moon is either super underrated or fairly Niche nowadays compared to other anime shows from the 1990s.
Also like i think ppl will hype up smth like spiderverse when its story has so many discrepancies in it trying to tie every spider man movie together in a half ass why, and the movie dragging on for 2 hours and not even telling a complete story
2:31 why is she build like 🧇
I'd count the classic fairly oddparents as something for all ages and a TV show I'd enjoy as an enjoyable show but the modern episodes aren't really for all ages and are more for kids. How do I know this? Because I watched a few of them and read their descriptions and they looked like they're targeted audiences are kids.
Why are you speaking like that?
Also animation is cinema hasn't completely lost its merit/meaning and don't say that it completely has lot its merit/meaning because there are still some people that still use some great beloved cherished animated movie classics as their examples to have animation be seen as an art form. So it still has some of its meaning. It still has some of its unique magic and it's spark left in it. Animation is Cinema and it ranges from a bit to a lot due to a lot of people making this statement stronger.
So what's so wrong with A Bug's Life?
The movie is amazing, I didn't understood it either 🤷♂️
Disney has already risked, for which they paid with ambiguous (if not mediocre) reviews
Hey. I got a little message For you. What if someone likes the new mario movie so much they think it's cinema worthy? Huh? I would do that over the simpsons movie because I have a great time watching mario stuff and not the simpsons. Also you can't stop me! P.S I get it when it's okay to move on from shows you watched as a kid to shows you watch when you're older. It's okay to go from shows like team umizoomi, bubble guppies, blues clues to shows like family guy, south park, and American dad.
That's kind of a strawman, nobody is unironically gonna say Monsters inc & Finding Nemo are bad movies just because Turning Red was someone's barely disguised fat-fur fetish. Also, the fact Wish wasn't good doesn't make The Lion King 1994 bad, it's the fact The Lion King 2019 tainted the water per say. It didn't make the original movie bad, it just left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths...
I get illuminations movies have a kids feeling with them, but they all have their moments. But it doesnt mean theyre all explicitly for kids. Is isnt like something like blues clues where it teaches you the numbers or the alphabet because thats how you know its an explicitly kids movie. It isnt really the studio I prefer, but Isnt really terrible at all. Despicable me and the sequel are both really great from what Ive heard! So why is illumimation that bad. Because it isnt bad at all. Its still great. Their movies have all their moments and they're all great even if they they're decent.
also i know this is random but you brought up studio ghobli and i have terrible news for you
hayao miyazaki started the l0licon trend by accident, not even joking
Puss in boots 2 is a true masterpeice
Same with Mario Movie
The mario bros movie and the spider verse movies might as well be the same thing to me, if the mario movie is bad, then so are the spider verse movies and every movie that shares the art style of the spider verse movies. If the mario bros movie is great, then so are the spider verse movies and every movie that shares the art style of the spider verse movies. Also every anime show ever made in existence and all the old nicktoons and cartoon network shows from the 90's and 2000's might as well be the same thing to me. If every anime show ever made in existence are bad, then so are the nicktoons and cartoon network shows from the 90's and 2000's are also bad. If every single anime show ever made in existence are great, then so are the nicktoons and the cartoon network shows from the 90's and 2000's. I don't make the rules. You can't change my opinions here and all of my other opinions on things.
Animation takes time, of course the titles meant to showcase animation being cinema are not going to be completely ready just a few months after the movement starts
How you had more 'Animation is Cinema' folk caring about Trolls/Paw Patrol than any experimental indie or foreign animation besides the occasional Miyazaki flick. I think anime is in some other category, where they are seen as this distinct entity. I feel there are worthwhile anime outside of Ghibli, but we have to be selective. Like Japan has always respected anime, probably because there wasn't a dark age where everyone tuned out of animation, like the 70s for Western Animation. Along with enough adult projects hit to the mainstream like Akira and Ghost of the Shell.
Take this year's Oscar line up, did anyone watch Robot Dreams? Sadly not many. It was given a slot because Oscars try to give a bone to non-mainstream stuff even if they never give the award. Only a few movies like Up, Lion King and Spider-Verse are stuff that you can push as 'Yeah I can put that with the other live action movies' in Award shows.
I get the streaming war means that cartoons are going to be more spread out nowadays, but it seems people are just ignoring dedidcated adult cartoons like Pantheon in favour of let's say Bluey. I thought there was a track when Invincible and Arcane got really popular and broke 'Adult Animation is just Family Guy ripoffs'.
It is odd. 2023 was a mediocre year for Disney where it feels likely 2 for 2, a non-Disney film is winning the Best Animated Film Oscar. To some the Mario Movie and Mutant Mayhem deserved the nomination for Elemental. On one hand, people did pay more attention to animated movies were doing this year, including a non-American film through Heron, but they need to take more steps.
This is a good way of putting it. However, just wanted to point out that it was really likely Robot Dreams was gonna be nominated. Aside from it being a festival darling, it was nominated for Best Indie Feature at the Annies, and oftentimes, the most popular of the 5 nominees will be in the top 5 for Best Animated Feature (2 if the year sucked in animation). Boy and the World, The Red Turtle, Breadwinner, Mirai, I Lost My Body, Wolfwalkers, Flee, Marcel the Shell, all those won the Indie Annie, and got nominated.
Again, I know it's disappointing that the animation medium got generally snubbed here this year because I think there could have been some contention, like The Boy and the Heron getting Score or Screenplay, or Spider-Verse getting VFX and Score, and it would've been great to see two animated films get a Best Picture nomination. But alas, tis' not.
@@hyunstealth32104 This trend is actually new to me, so I appreciate being informed. I kind of want to go on an indie animation film binge someday after recently watching Phantom Boy.
@@sirkillalot9892 You're welcome. Seeing more people get into that is fun.
off topic but ratatouille had a gba game? that late into it’s lifespan? get on ds, bro.
Nothing wrong with that imo, lol
It was on like every platform at the time: Windows, GameCube, PS2, Xbox, Wii, PS3, 360, PSP, DS, and GBA
12:12 well I like this movie and also the Boss Baby movies but I don’t like the Paw Patrol movie.
THANK YOU. YEESH
this video needs more views
17:21 I mean they could they go through eras and their just going through a bad one.
I agree with you on the whole animation is cinema debate, honestly animation is for everyone no matter what age and thats okay. Also, about the anime thing, I have to disagree with you on that, not all anime is full on porn, but I understand that you're not a fan of anime, thats totally fine.
Pixar lost its magic once John Lasseter was kicked out. They haven't done anything interesting in years, imo. I have zero faith in the studio going forward.
Mario movie is better than Wish when comparing to Asha vs Mario
I agree with you.
I totally agree with most of this video! A lot of what you said is stuff I have been thinking for a long time. Especially with the double standards these kinds of people have with Disney. Like even tho Elamental made a profit in the end, when it had a pore opening weekend the ultra Disney haters celebrated as if it was certainly going to do horribly. Yet when Ruby Gillman floped so hard it went out of theaters and to streaming in a month, all those people were suspiciously silent.
Also, before Ruby Gillman came out everyone was talking about how it's owning Disney for being a twist on The Little Mermaid as the live action version was coming out and had an ad that was made to at first look like one for it. Then after it came out, it really owned nothing.
And the part about him mentioning grown ups trashing modern reboots of children shows that they grew up with.
10:30 it is
I think animation studios should be treated like live actions studios, it's okay to make mistakes and we criticize that, but we can wait for masterpieces and eveything doesn't need to be a masterpiece.
It's complicated, it needs balance of expectations and no one has patience with animation studios or they are the worst or they are the best, there is no in between.
I think animation is cinema, but cinema itself isn't always a masterpiece. And animation is no diferent. Can be just for kids, teens or adults or for the entire family like any other movie.
People judge if is just made for kids, they deserve content made with them in mind too, like teens and adults deserve. Animation is not just for kids, but exist animated movies that are made just for kids... like live actions movies that are just made for kids, like is so simple and repetive to explain this, but is just that simple xD
Like Zerex said is better for kids to watch movies made for them even if are the bad ones like Wish or Trolls instead of skibili toiler and that crap in shorts that just made kids stay on a loop of stupid content that they just don't get bored and can't think at the same time.
It was already meaningless thanks to Crusader Rabbit in 1950 lmao.
Too be honest in the right hands everything can be cinema. For me animation was never a special category. Too every Toy Story and Shrek exists a Norm of the North or a Rapsittie Street Kids.
29:09 Or if people wanted to prove Kaiju movies are cinema and instead of using something like Godzilla Minus One, Pacific Rim, and The Sea Beast as an examples people would instead use stuff like Godzilla King of the Monsters (sorry that movie is overrated).
Don't forget the polygon trilogy
your wrong about anime
5:40 - 6:02 I have one movie that obviously can't be as good or can be nowhere near as good as them. Wanna hear it? The movie is The Simpsons Movie! OH MY GOD THIS MOVIE IS SO BAD!!! THE PLOT IS HORRIBLE! THEM ABANDONING THEIR HOME, TRAPPING A WHOLE CITY INSIDE OF A CAPSULE. NO! JUST NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! THAT MOVIE IS HORRIBLE AND SHOULD GO TO THE PLACE DOWN BELOW US IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY THAT! TO THE BOILER ROOM OF THAT PLACE! THE SIMPSONS SUCKS AFTER THAT MOVIE! THE WHOLE SHOW IS NOW RUINED AFTER THAT MOVIE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT WATCH IT!!! ITS THE WORST MOVIE EVER MADE IN EXISTENCE!!!
Turning Red is a great movie and actually does some interesting stuff with the animation forms. I even think it's more mature than the second Puss in Boots film. Like what you said about WALL-E and you don't call it "dogshit" though. You could've used Elemental or Soul at least...
And Miyazaki, he's not making anime, he makes animation, every animation fan knows that. Anime sucks and I think you should make your research better if you bring something up
I came to the comment section to see someone call him out for trashing Turning Red, but sadly every single other thing you said was stupid, so no kudos to you.
Bruh, Turning Red is creepy and about puberty. That’s why I’m never supporting garbage creepy Disney.
@@genyakozlov1316Turning Red’s just another garbage creepy idoctrinating movie. Disney’s never getting money unless I see better leadership made. Can’t take those creepy weirdo writers.
"indoctrinating movie", and then its literally just some mid movie thats an allegory for puberty
@@lemon5000-tj6nv Bruh, how is it NOT indoctrination if it’s aimed towards children???
Also you hate mario and the new mario movie simply because it's from Illumination and you think it doesnt try to make an okay or great story which means you're on the bad side, the critics side, everyone else is on the side of the audience except you, you horrble hater. A lot of people say its either a 7 or 8 out of 10 which is decent to great for a rating on a movie. Also people say despicable me 2 is great and on par with the first movie. People also say the second minions movie is better than the first one because the story focuses on gru more than the minions.
22:39 is Steve copying Mr Beast meme
The AEG situation was similar to the backlash of Velma. You’re such a hypocrite
This video was uploaded at 14:29
17:29
No one cares
Hey! Anime shows are more than high school stuff, they have their moments, they're charming, we have some great gems man. Watch some anime along with some Studio Ghibli. You're just a horrible hater. Do better. Dont offend anyone with you're hate towards anime.
Hey! You should change your opinion a little bit and get yourself out of the sterotype of high school anime shows and anime only being that. Come on man! Seriously?
I think animation as a whole is overrated honestly, like is across the spider verse really that good, besides the animation, same thing with into the spider verse, i feel like they tell okay to mediocre stories, with amazing animation. But thats just me
Both Spider-Verse movies are overrated. Not bad, but definitely not masterpieces where I would watch over and over. Just pretty animation and good fight scenes here and there. No Way Home made me feel more emotions imo, ngl.
@@LordTylerBluGunderson i 1000% agree with you, i feel like ppl don't criticize the movies because animation is the little guy in the movie industry or smth. no matter what anyone thinks of these movies, the same ppl who made them made the emoji move and hotel Transylvania 2-4, they're fat from perfect
Well as an animation lover myself my favourite movie ever is not one of them it's actually live action
The Super Mario Bros Movie isn't just for kids it's also for people who love the games such as myself and it's more cinema than the s***ty live action version.
animation is mindless entertainment.
Animation is for kids.
The Simpsons. Family Guy. South Park. Rick and Morty, etc, etc I could go on
@@HiImLucky3 These are animations for manchildren.
Those are for adults because of swearing, commentary, blood & alcahol. Read the age rating. @@HiImLucky3
@@alexanderarieatas8230in other words, immature adults. A.K.A. manchildren.
bro what are you talking about. shows like Bluey are really mature and for adults only.
¡¡wait, hold on!! ¡¿what the fuck do you mean: "Why "Animation Is Cinema" Has Lost Its Meaning? In the beginning of 2023, the phrase "animation is cinema" took off, becoming a slogan used to try and make animation be seen as a legitimate art form. By the end of 2023 though, the original meaning of the phrase was long gone, and it has since become a joke now.
In today's video, I go over why "animation is cinema" is a phrase that no longer holds any merit, and why it has caused more harm than good to the reputation of animation.", why the fuck do you say that and why the fuck there's studio ghibli in your video, why?!