TBM 850 G1000 - A TBM Driver’s Take on the PC-12
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2021
- There are lots of turboprop comparison videos out there that suck. All they are is b-roll and useless stats. While my family and I fly to Seattle, I talk with my wife about how the TBM and PC-12 actually compare from the perspective of an owner operator.
- ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
No music ..........wonderful.
Just the engine symphony.
Perfect.cheers from the French alps America
Always enjoy riding along. Appreciate the change up from time to time what you share thoughts and discussions on a variety of aviation topics.
Nice review. You spent 3 seconds highlighting that the PC-12 has a lavatory but that is a major consideration for many on those longer flights. I'll take the PC-12 1st for it's interior space & luxury, 2nd for its rugged structure and maintenance access/inspection design philosophy, 3rd for its overall speed range from stall to Vne. Thanks for the producing this video.
Very true - lav is huge positive for many, especially passengers. Single pilot operators often don’t think about the lav, ‘cause they can’t use it.
You made the perfect decision on Purchasing the TBM 850 because of speed;and pressurized and comfort for your family and I enjoy your conversation
Many thanks.
Thank you for covering my favourite subject. Great to have your POV.
Interesting review of both aircraft though I fear you miss many salient points. For me the big one being the 12 will operate from unpaved runways with great short field capability allowing it to operate virtually out of anywhere, it is much more versatile in this regard and far more comfortable with a considerably larger cabin, it requires far less compromises with its vastly superior full fuel payload, you do not have to balance passengers for either range or landing performance anything like as often. The cabin configuration possibilities are endless with typical hot and cold refreshments, it burns around the same fuel, is around 16% slower but carries almost a third more full fuel payload. It has far better landing characteristics over the slippery TBM, and it is vastly superior in handling turbulence and moderate chop
What a great presentation and delivery.
Many thanks, Ramez
An informed pilot providing lots of useful information while safely and deftly flying the exquisite TBM . TB
Little known TBM fact. His wife is actually listening to John Denver and she just nods when she thinks he has finished a paragraph.
Lol - you nailed it!
She is listening to a Pilatus sales pitch!.😁
One Taco. Nice job on the approach and touchdown. I appreciated the compare/contrast exercise on the TBM and PC12. I can quit researching the subject now as you answered all my questions. And yes your wife is an excellent listener, but you have to admit the subject matter is very interesting. You know you made the right choice when there are zero 5-10 year old TBM's for sale.
Thanks, John.
Enjoyed the Video! We're looking to upgrade in the next year or so and the TBM and PC-12 are on the list. Keep up the good work! Cheers!
phenom 100EV is next ...hahhaha
@@samfereidouni6855 That one is high on the list!;-P
@@FlyingwithBigErn M2..........better nearly at everthing
..and a big smiling shoutout here.. to our favorite Big Ern ....
Nice video. Nice Pilatus/TBM comparison.
I love the Mooney 90...'er I meant the TBM 900. In response to the thought exercise of "if money is not a variable": The PC-12 Or the TBM? I pick the Piaggio Avanti Evo.
I agreed with your points of fact in your comparison between the single engine turboprops. I'm excited to see the Cessna Denali once that hits the market. That's interesting competition for DaherSocata and Pilatus.
Nice thoughts and mainly true. One more big issue on the Pilatus is the flushing toilet? A great item to longer flights. And the better comfort on longer flights. The HALO System in the TBM 940 is awesome and makes it at least there safer to families in case of an pilot’s issue. On the Pilatus you can not get this even for money. The Garmin 3000 would be more professional and practical in the Pilatus. Older Pilatus with the Garmin 750 are very awesome.
Perfectly done
great video. Very informative. 👍
You're copilot has amazing listening skills.
Yeah - she tells me so.
@@onetaco772 Reminds me of my wife which is pretty similar. Lets me talk, smiles when I make an fool out of myself, often knows better, sometimes tells me :) But the best part: loves me the way I am.
i have to admit If I had a wife and kids on my private plane it would be the pc12 the cabin is huge for a turboprop and it has a lavatory in a standard config the tbm sacrifices size for speed while its the other way around for the pc12 but my dream plane to put my family on as a single pilot would be the pc-24 jet that thing is a pilot Flex great video tho dude!
Agreed on pc-12. Thanks for watching.
one taco..two taco..another great.. and thoughtful.. video...and if you are paying $2 Million dollars for one plane..and would have to pay another $1 Million for another plane...that is actually paying 50 per cent more money..thanks for sharing..
Well said - thanks.
For Part 135 and Part 91k operations the PC-12NG/NGX is one of the best in the business. I fly the PC-12 for PlaneSense and I absolutely love it. The only learning curve is making the transition from Garmin avionics such as the G-1000 to the Primus Apex by HoneyWell. I feel like the G-1000 is more intuitive, but the HoneyWell’s reliability is unmatched. The TBM-940 would be my lottery ticket airplane.😂 Anyway, love your content and thanks for sharing.
Good to hear from you. Agree that the NGX is especially drool-worthy. I wouldn’t think twice about learning PC-12 avionics if I had the chance to fly one. I’d have to go to Simcom/Flight Safety anyway so I don’t see it as an impediment.
Comparing a TBM 850 to a Pilatus PC12, is like comparing a Chevrolet Corvette to a Chevrolet Suburban.
Close, more like a Corvette vs an Escalade. The PC-12 certainly doesn't skimp on luxury or comfort. In fact the comfort of being able to stretch your leg s and having a toilet (albeit a bit awkward) is a plus, and like the Escalade It can go "off-roading" . In the end it's always about your mission. They're both exceptional aircraft and more complemmentary than direct competitors.
Well and balanced summary! Your screw loosend on your RH dash panel ;-)
Safety wire!!!!
Yep - good catch
A really good comparison. I have flown PC12 NGs as a professional pilot although most of my hours are in multi engine Jets. I do agree with you that PC12s are slow, especially from a Jet Pilot’s viewpoint. However, PC12 NGs have wonderful flying characteristics and they have really well harmonized control balances. Aileron controls are light and crisp without being twitchy. I have not flown TBMs so I can’t give you a pilots perspective comparison. PC12 NGs have Honeywell Apex Full EFIS avionics which are actually more advanced than G1000 NXis and they are superb. However, I like G1000 NXis as well and they are also very capable avionics. All in all it looks like you made a very good choice in buying a TBM as an owner flown turboprop.
Thanks for the PC-12 perspective. I’d love to actually fly a PC-12 at some point just to learn about the avionics and the control balance. TBM has heavy controls that either require trim adjustments or lots of muscling around. As you know, it isn’t typically hand-flown much.
@@onetaco772 Yeah the PC12 NGs are so pleasant to fly that it begs to be hand flown at lower altitudes, but like TBM, most of the time you fly them coupled to AP. I think you should fly a PC 12NG just to get your perspective. I have a feeling that at some point you will probably upgrade to Citation CJ 2+ or CJ3+ or maybe even CJ4+. I don’t know what your budget is but Citation CJs mentioned above have Full FADEC and if you get the CJ3+ with G3000 avionics, they are superb and they can all be flown single Pilot by the owner (up to CJ4).
What do you typically plan for fixed maintenance costs per year? (Annual, other inspections, etc)
Nice video and good work. However as a professional pilot of more than 20 years, I am sick of some ATC who think it is okay to start a conversation about parking and taxi routes as the aircraft is decelerating at relatively high speed on the runway. Honestly it can wait at least until taxi speed, if not runway vacated. Very common in America.
The pro/owner pilot distinction (disregarding the dual pilot factor) is a very interesting topic you've raised here. It seems to me there are two aspects. First is standards and recurrent training. I would expect owners to be interested and capable of the exact same thing as pro pilots. Including actual currency. (Because that's what I always strived for in my PPL days. Currency? Shit - I wanted to fly every day! And to pro standards. I'd have my CFII and ATP, like a lot of my friends, including P.G. who you mentioned, if I hadn't had to quit for major medical issues.) But I realize that there are probably (many?) owners who have enough money to buy a turboprop and yet not be that way. A little scary. But besides the competency factor, there is the owner v. pro psychology. I would hope at that level of experience, the decision making would be the same. Perhaps the owner would be even more conservative about flying F&F. (Unlike the massive amount of idiocy I've witnessed in low-time PPL. Even moneyed ones like JFK Jr.) Well one can hope, I suppose. Money Smart. But you'd think they'd at least be scared. Oh well. Neither the SafeHome button nor a ballistic parachute will save you from going below MDA...
Well anyway, cool video! Thanks for the channel!
PS. My lottery fleet would be a PC-24 and a Lake amphibian. And some kind of helicopter - those are too fun.
Many PC-12's are not only pro pilot flown, but I believe many are also flown with a mandated copilot in charter ops. Two Pilots in the Pilatus vs one in the TBM probably has as much to do with the better safety record as does pro-pilot vs owner pilot. If single pilot in either of these planes, and flying the the more complex flight profiles that these planes constantly operate in (, flight levels, routinely crossing weather systems, night flight, etc), you must really be on your game. It's much more about this than it is the inherent safety of either plane, which is excellent, as you have said. If a single pilot is not proficient, and gets behind the plane, and throw in any emergency condition or even some system failures, the workload and stress can overwhelm. Two pilots is definitely a help here. This makes regular flying, training and practice super critical for owner flown.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Two pilots are indeed mandated in many PC-12 charter ops or even part 91 ops. That makes a big difference.
I think there really would be a market for some kind of PC-8 to combine good performance of the TBM with the versatility of the PC-12 a little bit more. Big door, long range, lots of space, a little more headroom than the TBM, good for grass runways a little less speed probably and kind of more STOL.
I’d love that, too.
Thx for the vid with great info !! What’s roughly the cost of operating TBM850 per hour? What yr is yours? I’m in the market for one . Thx again -cheers🙏🏻
Roughly $500-600/hr and mine is a 2011.
If in a position to choose it’s the PC12 for me.
With fewer seats on the TBM is the insurance less than the PC-12 as another factor to make it less to operate?
The only comparison I have is that I pay about $20k a year for a $1M liability policy, $2.3M hull value. My cousin’s company, that flies a PC-12, pays $20k/yr for $20M liability and $4M hull value, but keep in mind they have a pro pilot (full-time). I would guess Pilatus insurance scales roughly with hull value, and as an owner pilot, would expect to pay 80% more for insurance were I to fly a $3.5M Pilatus.
The pc-12 cockpit really makes you feel like you’re flying a big airplane
Hahaaha, it does,...big airplane small cockpit
On another video you were mentioning the TBM is hard to land. Did you see the recent article in the AOPA turbine edition? It seems proper airspeed control is the key.
Yes, great point. I did see it, and the data analysis was illuminating. I have started shooting for 80 knots in the flare since reading the article.
Never worked on a TBM, Pilatus Build quality is top notch.
Comparison starts at 7:30.
your wife really looks very interested in the discussion.
After mentioning other SETPs at the start, you ended up the trip parking next to a nice Epic!
And a pc-12, crazy coincidence
Stick pushers are installed when they have poor stall characteristics.
tbm is a chevy,,, pc12c is a Cadillac
PIlatus is a small airliner
Well said
Uh we’re moving 😂 hahahahah
What’s the point of comparing them. There are two completely different things.
You know...I'm just not sure that the # of people I plan to kill in a fatal crash (that I'm not planning for) is a determining factor in which aircraft is right for me. Odd too take it there, however true it might be. Otherwise I enjoyed the video and am impressed by the speed gains in the new crop of TBMs
Thanks for the comment. All I’m saying is more passengers = more responsibility = more risk.
@@onetaco772 agreed, it's a truth. What I'm saying is that it does not factor into my decision making. If I make that fatal mistake, or series of mistakes as is more likely, it's just as likely in a pilatus as a tbm, as a king air. With all their capability comes an increasing responsibility. I'm sure we agree. Anyhow. Great plane, enjoy it my man!
Aren't the safety stats in passenger miles? (Another way of saying it is: more pax in non-accidents = safer.) The kill/family ratio is an odd way to think about it.
25.40 loosen screw tighten sry 24.50 😐
Yep
@@onetaco772 too many screw/loose jokes here...
I fly the Honeywell system, and there are things about it that annoy me every single day. It is ridiculously cumbersome and unintuitive, with way too many steps required to accomplish routine tasks, such as testing GPWS, for one small example. I find it tragic that Pilatus went with that over anything Garmin, and would never choose that package for my personal aircraft.
Isn't there a G3000 option in the latest PC12s?
Ah yeah there could be, I'm not super up on it, but would make a lot of sense.
Joker talking plan crash, pathetic!