We fly from Pullman, WA to Logan, UT, and discuss why landing this GA airplane is so challenging. We depart in the day, and land at night. Music by Audiosocket
There was a sad double fatal accident in Milwaukee years ago KMWC. The father brought his daughter from out east to look over the local college. There was a quartering 7kt wind and on a failed roll out and prop strike they tried a go around. The TBM 700 stalled on down wind and the flames prevent the fire dept. from getting in close.
To expand on your CFI's comments at around 16:20 concerning PIO, he says "hold the yoke slightly back", which is true, but a more precise goal is to hold a landing attitude. That means hold pitch nose up maybe +3-5 degrees or whatever is normal for your airplane. You can add power while at that attitude to cushion your landing. And going around is an option, although I can't say what the TBM is like in terms of prop ground clearance or likelihood of a prop strike on the first bounce. If it's low like a trainer, then just go around because the subsequent bounces carry a much higher chance of prop strike.
Everyone told me that my first few night landings I would likely slam it in. I did not disappoint. The peripheral visual cues just seem to disappear altogether.
TBM is a lot easier to land in crosswind and turbulent conditions than most of the previous 9 or 10 aircraft I've owned and operated. The only thing unnerving about the TBM is just how slow you can and are supposed to get it on short final. Once you nail the correct speed on final your landings are short, smooth and nothing short of awesome. Just make sure to keep that nose up on flare and all will be good.
not sure if anyone gives a shit but if you guys are stoned like me atm then you can stream all the new movies on Instaflixxer. I've been streaming with my girlfriend for the last few weeks :)
The spinning wheel also creates a gyroscopic effect that makes it more difficult to raise the gear. I fly a Mooney with the manual J bar gear and you can tell a difference in the force to retract the gear if you tap the brakes. So less wear on the gear system.
The TBM is hard to land but once you master it I think it's amazing and really hones your stick and rudder (and trim) skills. The key / trick is putting in full pitch up trim on 1/4 mile final. It makes the flare extremely easy and eliminates the fear of a prop strike. I came from flying a premier 1 and gen 2 Cirri where you tend to land much flatter to prevent the opposite (tail-strikes). Once you master the TBM though, you can land just about anything.
@Mircea A couple of thoughts. Yes, port-a-potty will fit in baggage area but would be hard to extract and use in flight, especially if all rear seats are full of passengers. TBM does actually has a bathroom mod, which reportedly is installed in celebrity pilot Kurt Russell's TBM. I would say any hope of "ventilation" solutions is unrealistic. You can do whatever you want in the plane, but y'all better be real good friends. About 4 hours straight is all anyone would want to spend in a TBM anyway, so dire warnings to passengers to be absolutely sure to use the bathroom is probably easiest.
I can't understand how is difficult to Land this plane having 3 big screen 😉 Best wishes from Russia! But the flare point is difficult especially after big plane sach as A320. Seeing it i imagine that it's time to flare the plane. However i mistook
@@onetaco772 that's very interesting. So, the manual says not to use approach flaps, but he does use them? Will that eventually cause a structural issue? Can you elaborate for me, please.
Yeah, though TBM was designed to military specs, and doesn’t lack for stoutness in landing gear. However, it’s not as forgiving of imprecise landings, as said in this video. I would definitely prefer trailing link gear.
I’ve seen this sort of comment a lot, and if you think this, you’re either a much better pilot than me, or ignorant. If it’s the former, then mad respect.
@@onetaco772 I am definitely not an ignorant. Far from that. Also - I wouldn't say you are much worse pilot. We simply don't know that. I might be better at landing a TBM , you could be better at something else, let's say procedures.. I flew the TBM 700 C2 In Europe for a year and a half in 2011 and 2012. What's funny is - at that time I had 350 hours total time and no insurance company in USA would insure me , even after SimCom. We found one in Poland that had no problem with it, and I flew it to Europe from Miami where it was purchased myself. Now when I am thinking about it it sounds absolutely crazy but that's how it was back then. In Europe the plane was based in Poland and I flew it for a wealthy family. Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Athens, Croatia and France were our typical destinations. All IFR, busy airports and busy airspaces. Madness. I did about 150 hours in it and at no point had a problem with landing. We flew it in Poland in the winter and in the fall and if you look at a typical weather in Poland in winter you will understand that the weather conditions are terrible. In fact about 80 % of GA airplanes don't fly at all between October and March. They are stored in the hanger. And for whatever reason, even flying in this conditions I've never had any poblems landing this thing. I remember we were landing in Gdansk in February with around 25 kts 90 degree crosswind with maybe 1 mile visibility and clouds at 250 AGL. It was as sketchy as it gets and yet - I had no issues - I greaced it. Wish I was recording it back then as often as I do now , but I guess GoPro wasn't even there. Honestly I had more problems landing a DA20 Catana than a TBM. This plane was impossible to slow down 🤣🤣 Best Marek
@@onetaco772 I also would add that if you always have problems landing a TBM and I never had a problem landing it - that only means that I might be better at landing a TBM, that's it. I definitely won't go as far as saying I am a better pilot. There are many more factors that determine who is better at it. Cheers
Great discussion and thoughtful questions. Hope to see more content from you.
Many thanks for the encouragement
There was a sad double fatal accident in Milwaukee years ago KMWC. The father brought his daughter from out east to look over the local college. There was a quartering 7kt wind and on a failed roll out and prop strike they tried a go around. The TBM 700 stalled on down wind and the flames prevent the fire dept. from getting in close.
To expand on your CFI's comments at around 16:20 concerning PIO, he says "hold the yoke slightly back", which is true, but a more precise goal is to hold a landing attitude. That means hold pitch nose up maybe +3-5 degrees or whatever is normal for your airplane. You can add power while at that attitude to cushion your landing. And going around is an option, although I can't say what the TBM is like in terms of prop ground clearance or likelihood of a prop strike on the first bounce. If it's low like a trainer, then just go around because the subsequent bounces carry a much higher chance of prop strike.
Yes - and prop strike is a key concern in TBM.
it looks just like the Sim in MS2020, love this plane.
Thanks!
Everyone told me that my first few night landings I would likely slam it in. I did not disappoint. The peripheral visual cues just seem to disappear altogether.
TBM is a lot easier to land in crosswind and turbulent conditions than most of the previous 9 or 10 aircraft I've owned and operated. The only thing unnerving about the TBM is just how slow you can and are supposed to get it on short final. Once you nail the correct speed on final your landings are short, smooth and nothing short of awesome. Just make sure to keep that nose up on flare and all will be good.
th-cam.com/video/1viMNA0eNF8/w-d-xo.html
I was amazed once I started to learn it in simulator how small the landing really is on correct speed. Truly unique airplane
I hope you continue making videos. I'm hooked watching them.
not sure if anyone gives a shit but if you guys are stoned like me atm then you can stream all the new movies on Instaflixxer. I've been streaming with my girlfriend for the last few weeks :)
@Reign Eduardo Yup, I have been using Instaflixxer for years myself :)
Why do pilots tap on brakes after liftoff?
Is it to simply stop tires from rotating or spinning before gear up? Or is it something else entirely?
Dunno - I googled this to find out, but didn’t find a good answer. I’ll ask my instructor
stops debris from spinning of the wheels and gumming up the wheel wells.( Ice, dirt ect)
The spinning wheel also creates a gyroscopic effect that makes it more difficult to raise the gear. I fly a Mooney with the manual J bar gear and you can tell a difference in the force to retract the gear if you tap the brakes. So less wear on the gear system.
The TBM is hard to land but once you master it I think it's amazing and really hones your stick and rudder (and trim) skills. The key / trick is putting in full pitch up trim on 1/4 mile final. It makes the flare extremely easy and eliminates the fear of a prop strike. I came from flying a premier 1 and gen 2 Cirri where you tend to land much flatter to prevent the opposite (tail-strikes). Once you master the TBM though, you can land just about anything.
I have prefer kicking the lights to low or medium at night.
Yes - me too.
What is the torque on final?
I believe it's ~20% in the 8 series depending on weight and iso dev. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
In my plane torque is 25% on final.
I use 25% on final which will yield ~85 KIAS in my TBM850
@Mircea A couple of thoughts. Yes, port-a-potty will fit in baggage area but would be hard to extract and use in flight, especially if all rear seats are full of passengers. TBM does actually has a bathroom mod, which reportedly is installed in celebrity pilot Kurt Russell's TBM. I would say any hope of "ventilation" solutions is unrealistic. You can do whatever you want in the plane, but y'all better be real good friends. About 4 hours straight is all anyone would want to spend in a TBM anyway, so dire warnings to passengers to be absolutely sure to use the bathroom is probably easiest.
@@onetaco772 no crapping allowed in our 940. If you gotta piss bring a bottle.
This plane is easy to land. I landed it in a 28 knot crosswind my first time flying it. Easy peazy
It's true that the plane is easy to land if flaps set to approach, something that is specifically prohibited in the POH.
We get it man, you have skill
I doubt that.
Lol what simulator were you playing? Haha
@@92suzukigsx1100g where you at I'll fly over pick you up and show you
The only difference between landing a tbm and a 172 is spool up time
I can't understand how is difficult to Land this plane having 3 big screen 😉 Best wishes from Russia! But the flare point is difficult especially after big plane sach as A320. Seeing it i imagine that it's time to flare the plane. However i mistook
Yeah - flare point is very important.
Stevo1Kinevo butters 100% of his landings. Just ask him.
Love me some Stevo, but it’s a lot easier to land with approach flaps, which he does. Doing so isn’t allowed in the TBM manual.
@@onetaco772 that's very interesting. So, the manual says not to use approach flaps, but he does use them? Will that eventually cause a structural issue? Can you elaborate for me, please.
Not structural issues, but increases chances of a prop strike. Yes, the only flaps setting in the POH is “landing”.
Instead of saying, “I’m going to talk about.....” Just do it!
Duly noted
what was meant by waffle house landing or waffle house approach? never heard this before
Dave means being too flat too early and then getting slow with no idea of how high you are off the ground. Then the aim point “waffles” around.
If I'm going to spend $4M + I want a plane that has Trailing link gear..oleo struts on this heavy of a plane is not acceptable .
Yeah, though TBM was designed to military specs, and doesn’t lack for stoutness in landing gear. However, it’s not as forgiving of imprecise landings, as said in this video. I would definitely prefer trailing link gear.
How long can one eat onetaco....They are going to Waffle House this time
very easy plane to land. No idea what you are talking about.
I’ve seen this sort of comment a lot, and if you think this, you’re either a much better pilot than me, or ignorant. If it’s the former, then mad respect.
@@onetaco772 I am definitely not an ignorant. Far from that.
Also - I wouldn't say you are much worse pilot. We simply don't know that.
I might be better at landing a TBM , you could be better at something else, let's say procedures..
I flew the TBM 700 C2 In Europe for a year and a half in 2011 and 2012. What's funny is - at that time I had 350 hours total time and no insurance company in USA would insure me , even after SimCom. We found one in Poland that had no problem with it, and I flew it to Europe from Miami where it was purchased myself.
Now when I am thinking about it it sounds absolutely crazy but that's how it was back then.
In Europe the plane was based in Poland and I flew it for a wealthy family.
Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Athens, Croatia and France were our typical destinations. All IFR, busy airports and busy airspaces. Madness.
I did about 150 hours in it and at no point had a problem with landing. We flew it in Poland in the winter and in the fall and if you look at a typical weather in Poland in winter you will understand that the weather conditions are terrible. In fact about 80 % of GA airplanes don't fly at all between October and March. They are stored in the hanger.
And for whatever reason, even flying in this conditions I've never had any poblems landing this thing. I remember we were landing in Gdansk in February with around 25 kts 90 degree crosswind with maybe 1 mile visibility and clouds at 250 AGL. It was as sketchy as it gets and yet - I had no issues - I greaced it.
Wish I was recording it back then as often as I do now , but I guess GoPro wasn't even there.
Honestly I had more problems landing a DA20 Catana than a TBM.
This plane was impossible to slow down 🤣🤣
Best
Marek
@@onetaco772 I also would add that if you always have problems landing a TBM and I never had a problem landing it - that only means that I might be better at landing a TBM, that's it. I definitely won't go as far as saying I am a better pilot.
There are many more factors that determine who is better at it.
Cheers