The dna filter appears to have more surface area but it only has 25 pleats compared to original filter with 50 pleats, so if you were to spread both open the original probably has more area.
weird that shortening the snorkels helped as well as removing the bodywork but cutting the holes did not. When you look inder the tank it even question how benifitial even the stage 2 kit would be given the the square inches of available air path between the tank and inlet. Maybe the side holes upset the air path by imposing a perpendicular air path. I'd have assumed that the air filter itself would laminer flow any disturbences of the air post filter and the inlets would smooth out the rest. Sucks that the factory engineers have so much more resorses at designing air flow than guys like us but they are too tied down with things like sounds to focus on pure air flow and performance. I pretty such I got just just a noticeable amount more of inlet sound by removing my snorkels like you saw on my facebook post but it's had to tell exactly without a stock bike to compare to back to back. Once I get an exhaust the inlet noise won't even matter.
Great to see this testing eh? Very interesting results! It seems that David has found that the snorkel intake area is already ideal, so extra intake area is not needed, and is actually detrimental because it has opened the box up too much to atmospheric pressure and this has reduced the resonance boosts at low and high rpm. What's also interesting is that this Yamaha behaves so differently from GSX8 he has tested. Is Suzuki not designing for any airbox resonance boost? Hmm.
I'm guessing the hole saw holes in the sides of the intake area hindered the acoustic pressure inside the box. Really curious if the power would jump 3-4 hp if the airbox internal volume suddenly increased (while remaining closed) by about 15-20%. Not sure it's an actual airflow vacuum that's the choke point, more than it is simply acoustic timing of the intake wave bouncing back and forth from the valves to the airbox. Cool stuff. Fun to see someone with instruments quantifying things by testing. Something of note, a competitor found that the SC Project exhaust (the shorter megaphone style) grabbed a pretty significant little piece of power over other systems in testing.
I tested both sc configurations on the 21-23 and they performed virtually identical I don’t trust anyone’s testing but my own lol www.vcyclenut.com/sc-project-testing-cr-t--s1.html The sc was the first system I tested in the 24 th-cam.com/video/YM1jtK_N8U0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=J-17G61uFPUodo2Q
I am currently running a DNA stage 2 filter in my XSR 900 but I don`t really like to loud Mooooooo sound at higher revs. Thinking of going back to the OEM airbox with cut snorkels. What is your favorite intake setup? Cutting the snorkels + OEM filter? Cutting the snorkels + DNA filter? DNA stage 2 filter?
Here is the intake testing appropriate for your bike. Modified air box lid like in the testing with a sprint filter is my favorite for top end power www.vcyclenut.com/intake-testing.html
Very interesting - the holes don't work! The other aspect I'm curious about is shortening intake tubes - it allows a little more flow but also changes their resonance so the intake snorkel resonance boost moves higher in the rpm - in this case probably from about 1,800rpm to 3,600rpm? And is more noticeable at higher rpm. Would a shorter intake move it further up and also increase the benefit? And does this require any air/fuel modification to realise the gains? Of course I'm wondering if we can copy this and get an easy boost... what do you say David? :-)
@@vcyclenut Thanks - I saw that but thought it only covered the high rpm not the bump at 3600. But it's good news so thank you! Very decent of you to share that with everyone when some testers want to keep it secret. Thanks! :-)
@@vcyclenut Velocity stacks are the most important by far but all pipes resonate so there are several resonances happening in the box at certain rpms. The most important is the velocity stacks, esp in conjunction with the cam profile. I think that's why this engine has a double peak in the torque curve - one is the cam and the other is the stacks. The intake snorkels will resonate too but this will be so low rpm as to not have any real effect on flow - they are tuned that low to suppress and characterise the noise not give a boost to flow. By cutting them shorter, their resonant frequency becomes higher which means they suppress noise less, esp lower frequency noise. A shorter pipe flows more too. It also means they can start to offer a small boost to flow at their new resonant frequency. This is what the torque curve shows too at 3,600rpm. That boost can spread a little by having different lengths on the intake snorkel pipes. At least, this is what the theory suggests and your testing seems to support this.
It's all in the restricted head. Heads only going to flow so much. David have you done any pulls with the filter box pulled running open intake or pod filters with stacks? It would either fall on it's face or make a bit more on the top end. I've read of cams giving up another 8 to 11hp which would add credence to the head being the choke point. But without a local tuner that can dig on the tune I've taken cams off the table for now.
@@vcyclenut Well they always worked on carb setups and allowed a bit more resolution in the tune and better syncing. Far better than any oem filter box, modded oem filter box or custom filter box. But time and tech has changed.
The reason for the long snorkel is to keep the heavy dust particles at the bottom of the airbox. Of course you need to clean the air filter often. That is why I am using DNA filter. You clean them and back again like new. I also experimented with Sprint Filter P08 F1-85 air filter on my 2024 MT-10. It is terrible!! Allows a lot of dust to pass through, and as they state on their web, it is only for racing purposes. This one is a BIG NO filter!! th-cam.com/video/87rkzaHVevs/w-d-xo.html
That fine dust is likely not a problem normally, unless you ride miles of gravel roads. People who wish to use their highest flowing filters are going to be on racetrack or drag strip. There comes a point of diminishing returns with air filters, where you can flow almost as much as no filter at all, but it's not going to trap debris either. I've had a read of their literature, I understand how their technology works compared to conventional paper filters.
@@exothermal.sprocket Who said dust is not harmful to the engine!? You attended a wrong school. Dust is a big enemy of the engine. Racing have a cost and the aim there is to win at any cost. Racing engines are serviced every several hours, not several years. Yes Sprint Filter have a different technology that works as good as DNA, BMC, or any other filter on the market. With F1 filter, they just have a more opened filtration, but there are way too many other factors to gain power while maintaining engine integrity. Be careful with what mods you do on your bike.
@@KHIJAPAN Are you talking about particles of beach sand or fine dust? Because you breath dust into your lungs every day. It's all relative. Engines safely consume a lot of dust every year and are just fine. Just depends on where the dust goes and whether or not it acts like an abrasive. Also, a byproduct of petrol is water. Engines produce a lot of water and don't rust out or dilute the oil. Filters allow all kinds of dirt through that's like 15-20 microns in size. People would do much better to focus on timely oil changes than to obsess over a little bit of dust.
@exothermal.sprocket Obviously, I am not talking about that dust, but the dust that accumulated on the throttle bodies after three days of fast ride with the Sprint filter F1 filter. Only this case. The fine dust you are referring to is not possible to block and at the same time have a decent power output from an engine. If you read carefully, you will see that I clearly talk about F1 filtration capabilities and possible problems. Of course, it is anyone choice of what to do with their engine. As an engineer and a tuner, I share my long experience.
@@qoe75 no the airbox can not be swapped. There is not room for it With the new lower handlebars the tank had to made lower and flatter and it took some of the room they had for the 21-23 air box and that is why the bike has a new air box.
They act as resonators to give the intake roar users wanted and like another viewer says they direct the larger dust particles down to be trapped in the lower part of the air box.
The dna filter appears to have more surface area but it only has 25 pleats compared to original filter with 50 pleats, so if you were to spread both open the original probably has more area.
Good catch!
weird that shortening the snorkels helped as well as removing the bodywork but cutting the holes did not. When you look inder the tank it even question how benifitial even the stage 2 kit would be given the the square inches of available air path between the tank and inlet. Maybe the side holes upset the air path by imposing a perpendicular air path. I'd have assumed that the air filter itself would laminer flow any disturbences of the air post filter and the inlets would smooth out the rest. Sucks that the factory engineers have so much more resorses at designing air flow than guys like us but they are too tied down with things like sounds to focus on pure air flow and performance. I pretty such I got just just a noticeable amount more of inlet sound by removing my snorkels like you saw on my facebook post but it's had to tell exactly without a stock bike to compare to back to back. Once I get an exhaust the inlet noise won't even matter.
Great to see this testing eh? Very interesting results! It seems that David has found that the snorkel intake area is already ideal, so extra intake area is not needed, and is actually detrimental because it has opened the box up too much to atmospheric pressure and this has reduced the resonance boosts at low and high rpm. What's also interesting is that this Yamaha behaves so differently from GSX8 he has tested. Is Suzuki not designing for any airbox resonance boost? Hmm.
I'm guessing the hole saw holes in the sides of the intake area hindered the acoustic pressure inside the box. Really curious if the power would jump 3-4 hp if the airbox internal volume suddenly increased (while remaining closed) by about 15-20%. Not sure it's an actual airflow vacuum that's the choke point, more than it is simply acoustic timing of the intake wave bouncing back and forth from the valves to the airbox.
Cool stuff. Fun to see someone with instruments quantifying things by testing.
Something of note, a competitor found that the SC Project exhaust (the shorter megaphone style) grabbed a pretty significant little piece of power over other systems in testing.
I tested both sc configurations on the 21-23 and they performed virtually identical
I don’t trust anyone’s testing but my own lol
www.vcyclenut.com/sc-project-testing-cr-t--s1.html
The sc was the first system I tested in the 24
th-cam.com/video/YM1jtK_N8U0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=J-17G61uFPUodo2Q
@@vcyclenut Naturally the example I gave was relative to their other testing. Your results will vary.
Good work!
thanks for the video. can you tell me if it makes a differece sound wise to change the air filter?
I didn’t notice any change in sound with the filter. With my air box mods. Yes, it made the intake noise louder
I am currently running a DNA stage 2 filter in my XSR 900 but I don`t really like to loud Mooooooo sound at higher revs. Thinking of going back to the OEM airbox with cut snorkels.
What is your favorite intake setup? Cutting the snorkels + OEM filter? Cutting the snorkels + DNA filter? DNA stage 2 filter?
Here is the intake testing appropriate for your bike.
Modified air box lid like in the testing with a sprint filter is my favorite for top end power
www.vcyclenut.com/intake-testing.html
Thank you for your response!
Very interesting - the holes don't work! The other aspect I'm curious about is shortening intake tubes - it allows a little more flow but also changes their resonance so the intake snorkel resonance boost moves higher in the rpm - in this case probably from about 1,800rpm to 3,600rpm? And is more noticeable at higher rpm. Would a shorter intake move it further up and also increase the benefit? And does this require any air/fuel modification to realise the gains? Of course I'm wondering if we can copy this and get an easy boost... what do you say David? :-)
I show I’m the video it does not require air fuel modifications
@@vcyclenut Thanks - I saw that but thought it only covered the high rpm not the bump at 3600. But it's good news so thank you! Very decent of you to share that with everyone when some testers want to keep it secret. Thanks! :-)
I also think your confusing the air box snorkels with velocity stacks as far as changing the resonance
@@vcyclenut Velocity stacks are the most important by far but all pipes resonate so there are several resonances happening in the box at certain rpms. The most important is the velocity stacks, esp in conjunction with the cam profile. I think that's why this engine has a double peak in the torque curve - one is the cam and the other is the stacks. The intake snorkels will resonate too but this will be so low rpm as to not have any real effect on flow - they are tuned that low to suppress and characterise the noise not give a boost to flow. By cutting them shorter, their resonant frequency becomes higher which means they suppress noise less, esp lower frequency noise. A shorter pipe flows more too. It also means they can start to offer a small boost to flow at their new resonant frequency. This is what the torque curve shows too at 3,600rpm. That boost can spread a little by having different lengths on the intake snorkel pipes. At least, this is what the theory suggests and your testing seems to support this.
It's all in the restricted head. Heads only going to flow so much. David have you done any pulls with the filter box pulled running open intake or pod filters with stacks? It would either fall on it's face or make a bit more on the top end. I've read of cams giving up another 8 to 11hp which would add credence to the head being the choke point. But without a local tuner that can dig on the tune I've taken cams off the table for now.
I showed all the testing I did. I will not try pod filters. I’ve never seen them work
@@vcyclenut Well they always worked on carb setups and allowed a bit more resolution in the tune and better syncing. Far better than any oem filter box, modded oem filter box or custom filter box. But time and tech has changed.
So on a completely stock MT09 SP 2024 would you suggest to cut the snorkels or not?Thanks ciao
No. Just cut back the foam under the tank
Curious if cam profiles are the same on 23’ vs the 24’ and the head porting?
Yes they are. It’s the same motor. Only the airbox changed
The reason for the long snorkel is to keep the heavy dust particles at the bottom of the airbox. Of course you need to clean the air filter often. That is why I am using DNA filter. You clean them and back again like new.
I also experimented with Sprint Filter P08 F1-85 air filter on my 2024 MT-10. It is terrible!! Allows a lot of dust to pass through, and as they state on their web, it is only for racing purposes. This one is a BIG NO filter!!
th-cam.com/video/87rkzaHVevs/w-d-xo.html
That fine dust is likely not a problem normally, unless you ride miles of gravel roads. People who wish to use their highest flowing filters are going to be on racetrack or drag strip. There comes a point of diminishing returns with air filters, where you can flow almost as much as no filter at all, but it's not going to trap debris either. I've had a read of their literature, I understand how their technology works compared to conventional paper filters.
@@exothermal.sprocket Who said dust is not harmful to the engine!? You attended a wrong school. Dust is a big enemy of the engine. Racing have a cost and the aim there is to win at any cost. Racing engines are serviced every several hours, not several years. Yes Sprint Filter have a different technology that works as good as DNA, BMC, or any other filter on the market. With F1 filter, they just have a more opened filtration, but there are way too many other factors to gain power while maintaining engine integrity. Be careful with what mods you do on your bike.
@@KHIJAPAN Are you talking about particles of beach sand or fine dust? Because you breath dust into your lungs every day. It's all relative. Engines safely consume a lot of dust every year and are just fine. Just depends on where the dust goes and whether or not it acts like an abrasive. Also, a byproduct of petrol is water. Engines produce a lot of water and don't rust out or dilute the oil. Filters allow all kinds of dirt through that's like 15-20 microns in size.
People would do much better to focus on timely oil changes than to obsess over a little bit of dust.
@exothermal.sprocket Obviously, I am not talking about that dust, but the dust that accumulated on the throttle bodies after three days of fast ride with the Sprint filter F1 filter. Only this case.
The fine dust you are referring to is not possible to block and at the same time have a decent power output from an engine. If you read carefully, you will see that I clearly talk about F1 filtration capabilities and possible problems. Of course, it is anyone choice of what to do with their engine. As an engineer and a tuner, I share my long experience.
can the whole air box be swapped from a 2023 into a 2024 and then use the stage 3 filter?
No.
@@vcyclenut I meant a stage 2 DNA air filter.
@@qoe75 no the airbox can not be swapped. There is not room for it
With the new lower handlebars the tank had to made lower and flatter and it took some of the room they had for the 21-23 air box and that is why the bike has a new air box.
Hello how mutch inch you have cut ?
I cut it at the line that is present on the snorkels.
Are these numbers with stock exhaust?
No. It’s with the black widow full exhaust. It does say it in the video.
Why do Yamaha engineers make those snorkels so long? Seems like a poor design unless they know something we don't .
Noise level. They have more to worry about more than just what works best.
They act as resonators to give the intake roar users wanted and like another viewer says they direct the larger dust particles down to be trapped in the lower part of the air box.