Carnage - Did We Hurt The V8 Lexcen?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- Our recent outing at Heathcote Park Raceway showed that the Lexcen has plenty of performance on the strip but did we actually hurt the engine during the process?
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Personally I’ll pull it out now before it’s catastrophic
After all prevention is better than cure
Runt to fail is never the best way to learn the route cause of failures
These an opportunity to see it before with all your experience previously with expensive rebuilding replacement of engines
Either way scotty your call have fun
And will always keep watching as your content is so good
Done yourself a mischief. Rebuild time. You have the tools and knowledge to see it's broken internally, don't ignore it.
If you told me 20 years ago I’d be watching a video on a Lexen wagon it’s fair to say I would know why.
But here I am along with all the other fans of this channel.
Good on you Scotty love every episode.
A leak down test can hold, but the engine is static. When the internals are reciprocating, pushing and pulling on the ring lands, there are signs of problems, like the compression test and the engine breathing harder than normal. It might survive naturally aspirated like that for a while, but likely not high temps, rpm and boost. The alloy fragments only further confirm something piston related has actually broken, that was a good find! I would rip it out and install piston and rods while everything else is still relatively happy. You were spared from it seriously lunching itself at the track!
Sir I think you nailed it.
Better safe than sorry mate! I think you are on the money mate, if it shits the bed at the top end you are gonna be in a bad place Scotty.
It will have cracked the ringland between the top and second ring, it’ll get worse over time and score the bore, i’d just put another used stock piston in and go again.
Pull it out & pull it down Scotty. It's a bit of work but will save you bucks in the long run. Not only that it's winter time which is the perfect time to get it sorted.
Cheers😊
But it's the only car that's actually running right now
Hahaha, I know right🤷🏻♀️
I really enjoyed that episode. Datalogging always seemed like a bit of a mystic art, so I appreciated the step-by-step explanation.
Scotty, when I broke a ringland it pushed the dipstick out and blew oil everywhere. Compression was down 100psi compared to to the others. I would be suspicious of the head gasket between the two cylinders. If it’s pushed the gasket out slightly, the piston could have chewed a couple little pieces off it.
Great car. Legit street car on street tyres doing tens. In my book that's what it's all about. Well done.
Hi Scotty, Id vacuum the ally pieces out and go again..................Then do another check. The rest is up to you mate. It goes ok for a toyolden.....
The original position on the inlet air temp sensor is perfect for a water/meth injection system especially if you're moving the temp sensor to the inlet piping. Pull the motor is the correct thing to do, a motor doesn't have that much blow by for no reason.
It’s easy to say send it! when’s it’s not yours, but when it’s your money and time on the line, it’s a whole different consideration, Wouda couda shouda comes to mind. We all know preventive maintenance pays off big time, So if you have the time, and can afford the downtime, but it’s your choice!.
This is well enough written this would be my choice
Sending it just increases the expense of repairing it when it inevitably goes boom.
Always instructive with cost effective and pragmatic mods. You're doing a great job Scotty.
There’s some great Fast & Furious skits that could be done here… Scotty handing the keys to Telfo reminding him that he is owed a ten second street car, or Bubba making a cameo asking if Scotty has checked the welds on the intake!
Yeah I,m with you prep another bottom end and get what you can out of this one !
Pull the head and pistons. There's obvious signs of detonation, get those metal flecks out of the cylinders before they can cause serious damage. Why trash a good engine if it can be saved with a bit of love now. That was a big lean out at revs, chance of ring land damage is fairly reasonable, as is head gasket damage. You've got blow by you never had, your down in compression, so something in the sealing department is not happy even if a cold test doesn't show it. We both know from experience that these things don't get better with time they only get worse. You might get a couple more runs out of it and it torches across the top of the cylinders (two cylinders are down not one) or a piston scores the block. Cheap fix now, might not be later. Besides it is channel content you know people are going to watch to see if something is wrong or not.
Pull it apart & inspect everything. Even when you were building it, you should have double checked off-camera to make sure it was okay. Rule of thumb is take your time with the build & double check. A lot of expensive components have gone into the Lexcen & sending it rather than fixing it, is going to cause more damage & drainage of cash very quickly.
I had something similar with a 2.6 Astron. It had a pinched oil control ring when it was assembled and was bent up and rubbing on the bore. Still ran an 11.4 but breathed a bit too much on 30psi. It wrecked the bore and needed 2 oversizes to clean it up.
Prepare for the inevitable or save the heartache and prevent the inevitable? Difference being you know the problem old son...I know it's not an enviable task taking the motor out but at least you've got the means and the know how on what needs to be done to get that beast to seriously send it. Either way mate, love your style❤🙏🍻
Trim the guards and fit the radials, make sure it cant moon boost ever again.
then have a cpl more full sends at the strip and retest compression and see if its worse. Carnage style 😎
It's wasn't moon boost, it was a case of the ECU not knowing what the boost was
Ahhh, makes sense. Cheers legends 👍 this is my favourite car ever built on the channel.
Looking forward to the updates
Since its being pushed hard id Do a Hot Leakage test again at Operating temp on those 2 Cyl.as a Comparison. May only blow by at hot.
Definitely pull it Scotty, something isn’t right and it might be a bit of work to strip it down but if she goes pear shaped next time your out then the damage will be much worse, for me it’s not worth taking the chance but at worse it’s giving you content for the channel and it’s much cheaper to look at it now than fix it later if she goes bang.
I’d cruise it on the street and give it the odd hard time and give the drags a miss….
But having said that now that winter is here, it’s probably the perfect time to freshen it up.
any chance that's metal from intercooler welds etc possibly just holding a ring a little bit? if you have the means to build a stout spare bottom end, then surely that's worth doing regardless. how about checking it in the same way after each event in future though to "keep an eye on it". most people wouldn't even notice that sort of issue, so its interesting you found it to begin with,seeing there's no symptoms (that's not going to affect it's power surely)
If it was weld material it would be in every piston
Another great video thanks mate
The show is called "Carnage".....
Full Send Scotty!! If it was me I would only because the leak down test was good , if it wasn't good then I'd probably pull it out and replace the piston , rings etc like you said . Maybe even run it on the low tune ( 16psi ) so you get more out of the motor ?
The carbon on the outer edges of the piston tops has been washed off the two bad cylinders and means that oil is getting up and washing the carbon off, probably happened on your way home. If I had to guess I'd say it's gone lean in third gear, got hot and damaged the rings and lands. This explains why you had the blowby at Heathcote. Send it but it's a time bomb, boost will kill it quick but it's only going breathe heavier run by run. Fingers crossed lol
Scotty you can use Subaru Wrx or Legacy 2L pistons in a 1uz for a cheap fix, forged and the gudgeon pin fits, plus the shape of the piston top is for Boost......
Interesting tip, never heard that one before
I think your right Scotty probably cracked a ringland probably a leg out of bed at some point
Good analysis Scotty, gotta love Haltech!
Try running water injection even though it's intercooled. I had it on my old car, intake manifold was cool to the touch after a full throttle hit.
Scotty, what if you put some oil in the two low compression cylinders and retested the compression. That might help in making an informed decision on what route to take.
Scotty put a post it note on dash clear/turn on logger 😆
Sounds like you've made up your mind to send it - Maybe vac out the cylinders then change the oil / tear apart the filter to see if there's more sparkles / maybe get a bit more life outta it?
Check the winged keel.
I'm wondering if those alloy shards have caused or will cause a clog in the oil ring of the piston. Caused the smoking. I would suggest drain the oil cut open the filter, and check for sparkles. Too many then pull those 2 pistons. If not, carnage it. At a minimum would check the oil filter before making any decisions. Good luck Scotty it is nothing to hard or bad. Last thing you want is to screw up the block.
You can’t call yourself carnage if you’re gonna start getting that fussy you know deep down, we all watch this show to hopefully see a piston come out of the bonnet one day.😊
Haha
I'd do it now, while the damage is contained. When you send it, and a piston cracks and breaks properly, the damage can only get worse. Gouge a bore, bend a valve, whatever it might be, they're not things you need to worry about right now
the way it was breathing and the alloy chips i would dismantle and inspect at least.
Definitely send it, just not at your local track 😉
Don't wanna upset them with the oil down
What model Endoscope is it?
Personally I would be pulling it apart and see what's actually wrong with it
Check the induction system the alloy is from somewhere
Toss a coin mate, because it's 6 of one and a half dozen of the other...... I never thought you'd be a quitter 😉.
Send it! If something goes walkabout you have to pull the motor out anyway. I treat my toys totally different to my daily driver. They don't have to get me to work on Monday!
Haha, ain't that the truth
Must be a rich man to get new blocks and other parts every time.
Just run two temp sensors to prove your idea, even if you pull a few runs on the Dyno to warm it up and just swap the connector over to the other sensor, interesting and how we learn 👍
Run it as is !
Drive it like ya stole it Scotty !
And yes build another bottom end up.
Oh and sort the drag wheels out !
Love ya work captain cammo.
Lol.
From Penrith yet again.
Might be time for some Hood risers or a reverse cowl or vent to get that hot air out too
6 degrees timing pulled and 80° intake temps, and it only went .3 seconds slower. It drove home no problem. 🤷🏻♂️ I’d absolutely send it.
I send it at this point and as you said have a new set of rods and pistons and redo the bottom end stronger more boost and into the 9s the wagon goes.... 😅
Could the head gasket be failing between the two low compression cylinders?
Sorry if you did cover that but I was a bit distracted while
Watching it
I'd be interested to see 2 intake temp sensors running on the dyno, I have a bit of a similar problem with my positioning of the IAS.
I'd say you might of got the rings a touch hot and lost some ring tension,
Honestly with how good it has run, I would pull it inspect it and pop some new rings on the weak cylinders.
Then work out ways for boost controller hoses to not come off
When in doubt, pull it out.
Scotty sure does like punishment ... whips, chains, cages and all that good stuff.
I would at a minimum pull it apart and see where the damage is on the piston rings.
That leak down gauge is confusing me. I used leak down in aviation for fault finding and also trend monitoring. You need 2 gauges the same and you should be putting in at least 100psi or closer to your actual compression psi. So when you have 100psi of shop air the second gauge is after a metered orifice to show actual psi. So if you plugged the end of your hose which is plugged into he spark plug it will show 100 and 100 so that means 0 % leak down. 100 and 97 would mean 3% leak down. You can then listen to inlet side, exhaust side or oil filler for air hissing to find the place where it’s bypassing. Also having 2 gauges the same you can calibrate and check your gauges are the same before starting. Can some explain to me what this gauge is ? I know it’s sold through snap on also as a leak down tester. The test needs to be done at a higher psi than 30-40 on your gauge. That’s why compression test results are needed to be high for a healthy engine. Also opening the throttle body when doing a compression test will be more accurate.
Comp test all within 10% is normalish. I have never understood the leak down test (i have 1 as well). Can you just pull those 2 rods and pistons for a closer look?
a leak down is a test to see if the chamber can hold pressure over time, hence all valves shut and at TDC. There will be some leak-down through the rings, but its a good tell tale to see if valves are sealing, or a cracked (confirmed with comp test) ring
If it was mine I would pull it and fix it . I think it’s a hurt ring land ! Over 20:1 af on boost . How’s the whole thing looking so good ! That should have gone bang !
Sorry I'm way behind on my youtubing, so you may have figured this out already. If you're on the rev limiter, the wideband will show way lean, but you're not actually lean. You're pumping air through the cylinders that aren't firing. Send it.
Zane, actually did tell me that after I did the video, but thanks for the confirmation.
Send it Scotty give it heaps💪
I’d have taken the drivers side head off and cleaned it out. There’s a chance you may have a small piece of alloy holding the valve slightly open causing your compression drop. Wouldn’t take much.
When I first watched the video, I was not convinced that the increased MAT was caused by heat-soak of the intake manifold, and thought it was likely coming in from upstream.
Looking closely at the burnout logs, when you say “it’s not making a heap of boost”, I think it is, but your ECU doesn’t, perhaps related to the line issue you had.
You can see that the AFR continued to rise as the boost bled away, which the ECU should have fuelled properly but didn't, why?
So I suspect that it was making a lot more boost than is shown here, the ECU only fuelled for what it thought and hence why the lean AFR.
Then when you ran it afterwards under load, you think your saw 16psi, but it was likely a bit more, and this why you saw the increase in inlet air temperature.
Why it didn’t show lean during the run is a good question, was it running closed loop and corrected perhaps? Or maybe you had been dumping in enough fuel that a few extra PSI and the 5-6 degrees less ignition didn’t create too much of an issue.
It would be interesting to compare to a known good run and personally, I would take it for another run and compare this back, rather than rush to rebuild it and then try to chase out the original cause and hurt the new engine.
Hey Scotty, when you do a compression test you really should have the throttle wide open to allow max air into the engine. Seeya Rob
I have heard that, but either way it seems consistent.
I would take it as a warning of bad things are coming if you keep running it hard. Now would be a good time to make improvements to make sure it will not happen again.
If Carnage can afford a second engine, prepared for failure of the first, then go for it.
But take a trailer with you next drag meet...
The trailer sounds like a good idea
Keep racing it,but I'd make sure all the safety features are working at 100%...
Those bits came from somewhere and the part that donated them will not get better. Back in the day I would have lifted the head for a look. I guess a UZ is not as cheap/easy a a Clevo/Windsor though.
Send it mate!
SEND IT 😎🤙
Yep. This is CARNAGE after all 😂
Send it! No question!
Send it Scotty! Can always rebuild it later.
comp tests arent conclusive, they are just a guide. What dont want to see is massive differences in a cylinder. The leak down showed good valve sealing. The camera footage only shows what you think is some bad stuff. Those camera lights can make things look worse. If it was me, I would crack on and keep racing. Maybe check and tidy up tune and engine safes. Maybe even do a power run see if massive power drops? If you that concerned is it hard to take just that side head off, then can see with own eyes....but short answer - send it
F*cken Send it!!!! As you said it's the only car going & you got a spare engine accessible if shit hits the shovel 👍🍻
I would rather get to it early because in your mind you know it’s not right especially on the limiter
At 20 to 1 mix im going to say you fried a ring it wouldnt be a issue if you're running water injection (before throttle body) for cool air temps on mild boosted engines
Just pull the motor out and rebuild it you owe it to your self to build a sweet toyota motor you found out with the barras and they are getting rare now and the toyota 1j is even rarer
I think you said it all... It's carnage send it..
Build another bottom end, at the moment id use it drive it whilst you're collecting parts .
the engine is hurt i would pull the motor out to prevent further damage
I'd just send it scotty 😎🤙
Just send it Scotty 🤙🤙🤙
Send it!
Send it Scotty 🎉
Send it! You've proven it works.
Juice up a 1VD TT, they're pretty common. We've seen pet/lpg/meth, burn some diesel 🤙
Adjust the tune a tad on those two cylinders to compensate and send it!
1UZs are tuff.
SEND IT!
It's fine...
Send it till it goes boom
Send it, bend it, mend it - repeat!
seriously though, I would grab a vacuum and try to suck some of that material out (into a stocking or something) to see if you can get an idea of what it is. But the cracked ring land sounds like the most obvious conclusion, especially after running so lean.
The cheap arse in me would just replace the one piston as there doesn't seem to be any bore damage.
i'd send it but i would add more pump or injector for a safety anyway
Pedal to the metal🏎🏁🚀✌
You wouldn't have the name "carnage " if we didn't see one or two incidents. Scotty 😂
If you are going to get another bottom end ready to go, then just keep going. Either way, it’s going to need to be redone. May as well enjoy it a bit more before you have to do it
Send it Scotty ,, !!
Send it til it don't send no more.
Pull it apart and fix it before it goes boom.
It's a good point but one way or another it'll get pulled apart and in truth we have access to a spare engine.
I would also check the turbo and make sure those little pieces of metal didn't come from the impeller.
Oh, and SEND IT !!! Lol
Just don't want you to be saying "I should have pulled it apart and checked it" on your next outing when something lets go.
Remember the 6 P's- Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance
You could always drive it on the street for 5 mins taking it easy, then rip the glug out to see what additional damage there is, or not. I'd guess it's a broken ring smashing against the landings.
I just drove it three hours home from the track
Valves?
Scotty mate check every single intercooler pipes with pressure tests, thats what i would do, you need to see if there's a leak anywhere, with a intercooler the intake temps should be lower as the car is running down the track, have a live feed for the intake temps, as you mentioned the intake temps are way to hi, the faster you go or at least as your driving and air is passing through the intercooler, the air temps should be way lower than what your getting?
Cheers and send it, also maybe put a massive fan on the front of the car and run it, plus when she was dynoed, what were the air intake temps then, has MPW got the logs etc. Plus when you run it last have you got the air temps to compare etc. 🦘🦘👍✌👌