I refuse to be gaslit by roadhog players again, i remember back in the day when that hook could literally pull you through walls and hog players insisted it was fine
@@DimentioCorp okay here it is, you dont get the one shot but he gets his broken hook AND bribg back spinning while hooked cause that was so much fun to do and fight against. More fun for everyone less fun for one.
Hog was born like any other hero and worked hard to get where he is, why does everyone think they can just get heals and one shot kills handed to them without putting in the effort. Mr. Hog has made Junkertown the envy of all other trash heaps around the world. This is just cancel culture trying to ruin a self made hog.
The fact that you have to anti, discord, and sleep hog just to kill him with an orisa means you have to have three characters specifically dedicated to counter hog. Balance. Great job blizzard.
To be fair it’s not Blizzard’s fault. Hog was extremely buffed due to OV 1 double barrier meta. He used to not have an one shot at all but he was struggling back then as the weakest tank. Now that in OV 2 there’s only 1 tank so it’s much easier to get one shot hooks more consistently. They know he’s not healthy for the game and they’re going to rework him in the future
Honestly if anything they’ve gotten worse Other than the skins, and even then there are still atrocious ones, all you get is some goofy charm that you might never use Like bruh it ain’t better
"Tiktok comments have picked up recently, they've gotten better" low-key I feel that's thanks to you Flats. You're knowledge of the game has been spread a looooot more via you're content, and thus a lot of the less knowledgeable players are now listening and actually learning from good players rather than the bronze-gold echo chamber.
Mmm, idk about that. I feel as if it's less that they're now more knowledgeable and more so that they don't wanna get cooked alive for their idiotic comments.
The actual dictionary definition of meat-riding Also how do you get the wrong form of “your” wrong like that? Like, you used the longer version and got it wrong. At least when it’s the other way around it’s because it’s shorter. You’re going out of your way to be wrong
As a tank player, an enemy Zen that can keep their discord up is so stressful because if your defenses go down for even two seconds you get like two or three cooldowns used on you and EVAPORATE. Its as close to being oneshot as possible while playing tank
Zen is one of my most played characters and I started playing him a lot more recently. Didn't realize how strong discord orb was until I played tank against a good Zen. I got nuked so fast I didn't even have time to shift as Ramattra to save myself. Definitely needs to be changed at some point.
@@GGPoohBah i think in current meta, with tank basically being 2-3 DPS, zen's discord is fine now if they rework tanks and change overall TTK numbers, we might need to bump it down, but with Orisa Hog meta, we need the TTK speed it gives
@@GGPoohBah I didn't realise either. as soon as i got melted to discord in 2 seconds as Ball, i made it my life's mission to slam on top of zens, kill them over and over and force them to swap. If i don't, i can't do anything. haha Discord is scary.
If that that hammer slam happened to me I wouldn’t even be mad, I’d be to stumped and filled with the feeling of being impressed of what just happened.
@@blancange1872 ive seen hogs survive more. Its impossible to 1v1 him as anything but hog and orisa. The frequency of his heal is whats killing me as a tank main, everytime i eat all his abilities and get him to half he just heals, against every tank dawg all of them except himself and orisa. Orisa is next and sadly as a sigma main i know hes gonna get nerfed after orisa. I agree with it though sigma is too powerful in his own right.
I think removing sojourns ability to headshot with the railgun would balance her out nicely. Turns it more into an excute of sorts. It makes her less impactful in high elo games and doesn't really effect the lower ranked game as people aren't going to be hitting many headshots anyway and that's why she's a high elo problem right now.
Agree. 130 bodyshot along with primary fire sounds good enough for me. It takes a lot of the skill of the character/skill ceiling, but she's a soldier widow hybrid with Baptiste's jump, and Ashe's dynamite than doesn't need to be aimed directly She needs some changes
I honestly think that Solj left click should be the railgun, a slow firing, high impact weapon that acts like a fast projectile. This bootleg soldier just isnt doing it for me, i hate her auto attack now. I also generally think Mercy needs to be fully reworked, her playstyle has always proved to be terrible in lower ranks, or incredibly broken in higher ranks. I would rather her be like the link support in paladins, where she can constantly heal who shes hooked with and boost their and her own speed, which would make Lucio not the only speed boost pick and we wouldnt have these damage number issues.
I agree with this but from a game design perspective it would be weird. It would be the only gun that doesn't headshot and makes an even bigger overlap with soldier. Essentially railgun becomes a hit-scan soldier rocket. Might still be worth it for the health of the game though
@@Doople I agree with your message, but i want to say that your first point is entirely irrelevant. How...in a game full of everyone being completely unique is a slow firing, hard hitting gun out of place? (And lets pretend that you didnt know that Bastions turret form doesnt headshot either) You telling me that we cant have different rules for people? because thats exactly how this game functions right now. (For example Kiriko ult doesnt allow everyone to gain all the effects, like Zen.)
The thing that hurts, for me at least, with the Hog situation is that I genuinely enjoy the character. The aesthetic, the brick-wall mindset, the intimidation factor of the Scorpion-style hook, I love all of it. And I still agree that his oneshot capability needs to be nerfed. the part that makes it hurt is that picking the character I enjoy now means for a good chunk of the community that I'm either just a meta slave or picking the broken character because I'm bad at the game (and sure, I might be an average player, but that's beside the point). I just hope that the devs can get my boi into a state where he's still fun and viable, without just nerfing him into the ground.
@@yarn7344 i use it too at this point its a force of habit it doesnt really matter you can still get the oneshot without it it only matters if you miss a bunch of the projectiles, it should be no melee no one shot combo
@@lruddy8820 Nah Roadhogs kit is just straight up the most unfun you can possibly have against a tank. He needs his hook to not be "Scorpion-style" He should use it as a debuff to the enemy, to lock someone down as a brief cripple to stop high mobility characters from running rampart. His heal also needs to affect the team in some way. You look at him and you dont see tank, you see massive dps and thats not a good thing.
Well if it helps no one ever liked playing against or with hog. The reason changes over the years but hog was always awful for the collective fun. Besides OW players pretty much only like playing against Rein and maybe Winston.
Zen is already a high risk high reward hero. No movement, no self heal, his whole thing is to increase his teams damage at the cost of sustain and healing
@@ejwennerstrom8299 again not taking about the character but the the ability itself also it’s hard for tanks to kill so los the dps and keep it on the tank ect there are ways to play around it but the ability itself is busted and will more than likely have to be changed in the future
3:16 the all black hoodie, the anime wall scrolls, the DPS god complex that its never their fault.. This dude mains Reaper and occasionally goes Genji when hes either about to watch or had just finished watching some anime.
"just bait the hook" "use ana" is just the hog defenders way of saying "git gud" or "skill issue" at this point. for countering sojourn i can just say "keep moving" or "just dont get head shot" and its the same impact of meaning
Lol the ideology of the OW community sucks bc it’s a complex game that most casual players don’t fully understand. So you end up having people saying they are dying because of x,y, and z instead of realizing they themselves are the biggest problem. It’s an ego thing. It plagues all areas of humanity, not just OW
Flats, discord orb is actually the only reason why anyone below diamond can kill a roadhog or an orissa. It is very powerful yes, but it is also necessary in the current meta. I think first we need to nerf those tanks a bit and then we can think about nerfing zen.
My idea of a Zen "rework" would be every team mate does 10% extra dmg to discorded targets. Zen keeps his personal 25% extra damage, but on top, a portion of that damage (like 25% of what he deals dmg to that target) gets transfered as burst healing to whoever has the harmony orb on them at the same time. This way Zen can actually do skilled burst healing by applying discord and harmony to the right targets at the right time, while also actively landing his own shots to have a direct skill impact on how much healing he does. I think that'd make playing Zen both more fun and also more rewarding outside of just landing headshots and rightclick volleys.
I get that off supports are design to have low healing on purpose but this idea sounds interesting since his orbs are pretty much set it and forget it.
What if discord reduced healing by a certain percentage instead? Nobody gets sent to the backrooms immediately, but it still has a significant impact like bio nade
5:41 5 steps to success: Step 1: bait the hook Step 2: use ability to counter it Step 3: he didn't fall for it and kept his hook Step 4: your ability is over and you became vulnerable Step 5: Hog hooks and oneshots you
“Just bait the hook” ah yes let’s try to bait the hook and watch it go from 10 feet away from me to on top of me because of the hitbox being very awkward
Maybe a way to switch up discord is by making it reduce the amount of healing the enemy with it on recieves rather than increasing the damage they take
IMO a short-term fix for Discord orb could be making it fall off of the target after 3 seconds of zenyatta not damaging them. Basically making Zen players have to micromanage their orb more for it to stay on it's target and actively pursue killing their target or refreshing the orb every 3 seconds without. Attention economy is a thing, and it'll be a lot harder to maintain your discord orb on a tank when you're being pressured by a DPS so while discord remains powerful at least it has better counterplay than "leave the fight"... the counterplay becomes "Have DPS that can put pressure on zenyatta and keep his attention off the tank". At least it could be a band-aid fix until they can manage a full rework of the character later down the line.
"Just bait the hook", so mind game the Roadhog consistently? I'm thinking the Hog has the easier job in the scenario, you know that, and won't admit it.
"Just bait the hook." Aaaahhhh-- This reminds me the golden age days of Rainbow Six Siege community saying "Just don't move, lul" when people complained of Lion's launch.
a flat nerf to Zenyatta's Discord without either a rework to its function to include a smaller damage debuff and lower healing received by the target OR an adjustment elsewhere in his kit is absurd. he already has low healing output and terrible mobility, and can be dove on by almost the entire roster.
Discord is legitimately the only reason to play Zenyatta at the moment. The ability can only be touched _after_ support had their reworks as promised by Blizzard, and/or Zenyatta himself has a rework to give him different abilities entirely. But taking his discord orb away or nerfing it with no other changes to his kit would essentially make him unplayable unless the enemy team has a Reinhardt or an Orisa.
I think a really nice change for hog would be if he had to do a little spin with the hook for a second before throwing. That allows for people to see that and react accordingly. Maybe even throw in slower look speed during the spin too or a semi loud voice line saying he's going for a hook
God, Zen is one of those characters who probably just need to be fully reworked because they have exactly one feature keeping them afloat and that feature is a bit too good, so as soon as you take that away, the character is just arse. Like sure, Zen still has good damage aside from that, but he has no mobility, bad heals outside of his ult and no utility. If you don't rework him, his kit simply needs one very powerful ability to really give a reason as to why he even should be played. Right now, that's discord. But if discord was nerfed significantly or changed to work differently, then Zen would just not have a place in the game. At that point, he's just crappy Mercy. Sure, he still hits harder than her but let's be honest, if you just want to murder people, there's other good options on the support roster such as Lucio or Baptiste.
if you gave zens discord orb a 3-5 second limit then a 2 second cool down and maybe drop the damage to 20% I think it would help with his discord, and maybe as an buff increase the health gain from the harmony orb just a little
So 1 person takes 20% damage for 5 seconds? Eh that doesnt sound amazing. Youll have to buff Zen quite a bit to allow him to actual do more in that case. Honestly i think his Orbs shouldnt be LOS related, If youre using your orb on a flier then it frees up mercy for another pick, it also means you dont need to be in a shit spot to heal people and help him be more consistent. I think his Right click shouldnt be a charge fire type thing, i think it should be a massive orb that deals damage kinda like sig rock, have Zens discord orb be Morias old purple orb thing that prevents damage for a few seconds instead. Just some things i would do personally. A spicy idea would be that everyone on your team gets a small orb that constantly heals as a passive, but the heal is like 5 per second or something and then you can free up an ability slot for him for something else. That would be fun :D
omg that lucio complaining tiktok dude. my brain checked out at 'woman-splaining'. yikes. also i'm so here for what flats said at the beginning about the nEED for critique and how it enables the possibility for continuous improvement. hell yeah Flats. hell. yes.
Perhaps Discord Orb could do damage output reduction from an enemy, instead of the current incoming damage increase. It could be used to shut down pushes from a pocketed DPS
Not a huge fan of that tbh. Remember that ultimates are a thing in this game, so having a character that can just say "your ult does 25/50/whatever percent less damage" with no cooldown or aim required would be disastrous unless you're spending multiple ultimates to round it out and force zen to pick which one he has to break.
I feel like Zenyatta making a Discord AoE instead of a Discord Orb, sort of like Ramattra's vortex, would be a pretty good way to rework his ability. It introduces the idea of a cooldown naturally, still creates a pretty important amount of pressure for the tank, and it doesn't remove the only worthwhile part of Zen's kit besides his ultimate.
I really like that idea, the discord becomes more of a zoning tool and gives enemies counterplay to escape it. I could even imagine it working like Baptistes Lamp where the orb could be shot down to remove the aoe.
dunno to what extent devs have been hanging out in chats but the openness is welcome. just knowing where theyre thinking of steering the game beyond the next balance patch is a boon on zens discord -- the ability to ping thru walls to give teammates an idea of their pathing is very strong as well
I agree that Zen might need to be touched in the future. But what would you like him to do? Other than tans, Zen has no burst healing, discord makes him a glass cannon with no movement options. Are you wanting more damage on Zen and less on discord? That would probably make dps less fun against him. Or what? I’m down to be wrong just a little confused
I play Zen a lot. I think suzu was supposed to mitigate the problems around discord but suzu has a cooldown and discord does not. Like Flats said there's also no way of really removing discord as long as Zen is present in a fight. So the logical answer would be to add a cooldown, problem is if they did that they take away Zen's ability to target select by swapping orbs on the fly. Zen would not be able to defend himself from flankers (which is one of his strengths in exchange for him not having mobility or amazing healing) because his orb would be on cooldown most of the time from putting it on the enemy tank. The solution for this I think would be to give Zen 2 charges of his discord orb, but limit him to 1 target, cooldown can be 12 seconds so a tank that breaks LoS immediately gets 10 seconds before being orbed again, but if the Zen keeps LoS he's rewarded with a 2nd orb he can use against flankers if needed.
There’s not really a easy solution but they were stating that the ability itself is not healthy for the game and will need to be changed at some point, not talking about healing or anything like that, they said he’s not a strong hero but specifically the ability
So my eyes are starting to go bad and I just started watching your channel. When it got to the outro area where you put the pop ups on and male yourself blurry, I full on thought my eyesight went for a second lmao
I agree that Disc orb should be looked at but when they eventually nerf it or change it, Zen is going to need some every good changes or buffs to the rest of his kit because right now he is nothing without it, even his ult that was and still should be impactful , can be shutdown with a single E from Ana.
Can somone just correct me if im wrong but couldn't we just make zen have a cooldow for every time somone waits out the time for discord and not in a way that is just like "dicord to tank , switch to another character 2 sec cooldown" but only when waited out
Low key high key thou support isn’t even in a bad place rn. It’s just that every other role has some absolutely broken shit that helps them snipe support constantly.
For Discord Orb, I would say give it a cooldown and a duration on the target. And maybe instead of increasing damage to the target, reduces healing by some percent.
@@smashkid9196then you give him something else, like a 3rd orb that idk, reduces skill cooldown by 10%? Just throwing ideas around but giving him more orbs sounds fun
If they nerf zen then they gotta give him some insane mobility or something. He is like balanced around having no mobility and being a glass cannon, easy dive target. So whatever they do to discord orb would have to balance out his kit. Either more insane survivability or a trade of like debuffing damage done.
Exactly that's why I couldn't believe Flats was agreeing with the guy. Sure discord is now used to make the tanks a little more squishy but the Zen can be killed pretty easily too. All it takes is one flank and the Zen goes back to spawn
@@Grizzy6122 You can't take away his discord without adding mobility. His "gimmick" is that he's a glass cannon, deals damage but dies easily, removing or replacing discord changes that gimmick anyway. If you're going to change something as fundamental to his kit as discord, you need to completely overhaul his whole kit.
@@hona6924 With his regular primary and five orb, he is still a glass cannon without discord. You can replace it with something equally strong but requires more thought than discord, which you just slap either on the tank or the person you are dueling. You can still lean into his identity with a new ability.
@@hona6924 his real "gimmick" is that his character is all about balance that's why their is the discord orb and healing orb. Think of the Ying and Yang for example. A complete overhaul seems strange and doesn't seem like it could work. The only thing that might is to decrease the damage boost of the discord like by 10% and add that 10% to the healing orb. I don't know if that makes sense
Lol first one. Ngl the overwatch community is for sure one of the most hateful communities to their developers. I came in at the beginning of ow2 and I’ve never seen hate like this towards the devs. Kinda wonder why ppl still play the game if they “hate” it so much
I think Hog players all have OW1 PTSD where they had to fight 3 different shields and a Bap lamp, so when Hog hooked you it legit was because you were somewhere stupid. Meanwhile in OW2 i stand behind my tank but somehow the enemy hook goes 1 pixel past my tank and hits me instead, back to spawn for doing nothing wrong
zen is C or D tier already... if u take discord orb out zen is dead fully dead with 0 point to play him. yea zen can put pressure on the tank but it's a huge risk because his heal is low for the team and he's very diveable with no movement. he also has a large hitbox for a support with a juicy headshot zen would need a complete rework without discord
That _is_ what Flats said. The discord orb is untouchable until Support gets their promised reworks and stabilize their class to make them more enjoyable
@Nicolás Zan it's not a general rework he'd need (like a new support passive) he'd need a total rework. he'd offer almost 0 value. his hitbox (especially head) being so big would make no sense. his lack of movement or escape would make no sense. his ability to get assists would be cut by at least half. he would be unable to duel since the discord is the only way he has any sort of chance of duelling. even his damage output (his big plus as support) would be reduced by the lack of discord. every part of him would basically become obsolete. with discord now he's D maybe C tier pick at all ranks.... so by definition discord isn't that destructive... if it were he'd see more play at high ranks... he doesn't because the risk of playing him isn't quite valuable enough for the reward in the meta
As a Zen main, discord nerf would be terrible. When a Winton jumps me, I need to be able to discord him and tap those headshots. The only type of nerf that could be ok is nerfing damage increase from teammates, but not for Zen himself.
Maybe having discord works for Zen and whoever zen has his harmony orb on. That way the whole team can't take advantage and now Zen has to remember to use harmony orb not just for healing but for utility too. Just a thought.
They could keep his damage numbers the same but change around how much of that damage is because of discord. Discord is nerfed but zen as an character isn't affected. They could trade it out for a low percent (10-15%) and maybe compensate by making healing worse for the target by a small amount (5-10%) or giving him a movement ability (they won't but a man can dream).
@vini This is more along the lines of what I'm thinking. Zen doesn't need a nerf though, I think a restructuring would be best. Either increase his fire rate/damage, or buff his individual damage output for discord, to compensate for the lower discord bonus for teammates. Either of these I'd be cool with.
Honestly I am so glad doomfist is a tank now. Now that tank is a solo role of the zen just keeps discording you, you can just go doom and just decimate him. So tank can actually do something against zen but you have to be good at him still.
An idea I had for zen is instead of increasing damage dealt by allies but it reduces the enemy damage toward zen and his teammates from said discord enemy like 30% less damage to zen 15% less damage to teammates they would probs need to ad a cooldowns for it tho maybe like 4 seconds
A lot of people have been suggesting this and it sounds even more annoying to play against then hack, and more boring to use zen. It's a bad idea, stop
@@jazay591 Here's the thing. Hack made most characters non characters. This discord rework, while I agree isn't the best idea, still let's you play the game. A 15% decrease, while big, still let's you influence the game, and a mercy damage boost still gives a greater boost against everyone except Zen, who it just balances out against.
about zen, maybe it would be better if it reduced the damage that the enemy does instead of increasing the damage they take. That way the tank can still do their job but you can use it to counter certain attacks.
“Just bait the hook” ah yes because I definitely have a way to avoid it, and if I use my movement ability his hook will be up by the time mine is up again.
Watching tiktok in general does that. I see lots in TH-cam comments or places like reddit, and its bad enough. But when someone looks up tiktok for me, I just cannot. I skipped more than half of this video, just hearing these people take themselves seriously gives me physical pain.
Zen’s discord should have less damage percentage( maybe 10-15%)but link to other enemies in a short radius ( 5m maybe) and have less of a damage amp on the people that don’t directly have the orb. It also should be the same with zen’s healing, so you can get more value out of his healing but still people that don’t have the orb and are just linked to it would also have to get less healing.
Probably not the radius as that would make team fights broken as the other side is basically taking 10% more damage. Possibly a combination of both positive and negative effects, 10% damage taken increase, movement buff to prevent headshots, and Possibly increased knockback taken. I have no idea what I'm talking about, being extremely new at the game, a casual, and a zen main, but I feel the essence of discord may be pros versus cons
So flats, zen’s discord orb was reduced to 25% in March of 2019, but they reverted it back to 30% in may 2020. The only change discord got from overwatch 1 to overwatch 2 was the time it fell off when out of line of sight going from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
the reason mercy damage boost is ok is because in order for her to dmg boost she has to stop shooting or doing anything else which reduces the number of people outputting dmg to 4 (4.3 if mercy is dmg boosting) but with zen it is bad because it actually then becomes 5.25 people outputting dmg (more like 6.25 if everyone focuses on the target) thats y zen is broken with discord and mercy is perfectly fine with how her dmg boost works
Every time I play Lucio, I spam “press the attack” when im speeding to engage, and “fall back” when im speeding to disengage. nothing happens, and then people just start inhaling their mics in order to yell at me to switch to heals. I can’t even outheal an ashe dynamite what the hell is that gonna do to keep you alive in a fight 😭
Zen discord change idea: Instead of a damage buff, it gives teammates a % lifesteal, so your team can still focus fire a single target and it somewhat boosts Zen's healing output, but doesn't cripple any single enemy. _Possibly_ give it a very small damage buff effect like 10% just to give a little incentive to shoot while at full health.
@@jureissicpork4432 Yes. It would still be used to mark targets for focusing fire but wouldn't be as oppressive in 1v1 situations, instead just helping your team stay alive as long as they're hitting their shots.
Sorta but supports also have pick/play potential (discord, sleep, ana nade, damage boost, speed boost, kitsune rush, etc) and do ok damage when healing is topped off
I refuse to be gaslit by roadhog players again, i remember back in the day when that hook could literally pull you through walls and hog players insisted it was fine
Some hog players wanted him buffed even more they will never be satisfied
IKR! i refuse to be gaslit again by the same people 6 years later!
“Just bait the hook and kill him 💀”
I WANT THE NARNIA HOOKE BACK.
Take away his one shot, fuck it give him the air poof from tf2 instead idc. I WANT THE TACTICAL EXTRACTION HOOK.
@@DimentioCorp okay here it is, you dont get the one shot but he gets his broken hook AND bribg back spinning while hooked cause that was so much fun to do and fight against. More fun for everyone less fun for one.
“Just bait the hook” is the equivalent of “if you’re homeless just buy a house”
Hog was born like any other hero and worked hard to get where he is, why does everyone think they can just get heals and one shot kills handed to them without putting in the effort. Mr. Hog has made Junkertown the envy of all other trash heaps around the world. This is just cancel culture trying to ruin a self made hog.
@@Chromatomic hoglivesdontmatter
It’s literally an ice climber player saying “just don’t get grabbed”
Yeah but you can actually bait the hook though. Not saying Roadhog is not strong, but you CAN actually avoid his hook with side-strafing.
How is having an atrocious garbage matchmaking system & battlepass be called striving to be better? Flats just blindly defending the game!
The fact that you have to anti, discord, and sleep hog just to kill him with an orisa means you have to have three characters specifically dedicated to counter hog. Balance. Great job blizzard.
To be fair it’s not Blizzard’s fault. Hog was extremely buffed due to OV 1 double barrier meta. He used to not have an one shot at all but he was struggling back then as the weakest tank. Now that in OV 2 there’s only 1 tank so it’s much easier to get one shot hooks more consistently. They know he’s not healthy for the game and they’re going to rework him in the future
That’s two characters
@@Phoenix_NH Ana, Zen, and Orisa
@@Phoenix_NH let me spell it out for ya
Ana - Anti + Sleep
Zen - Discord
Orisa - Orisa
3 characters
@@Phoenix_NH ana, zen, orisa. I have t been in school awhile, but I think that's still three.
I'm absolutely loving the bronze tiktoks and the actual game advice you are providing with this series!
No cap I’ve learned sm about the state of the game through flats’ counter points
@@toastiboi7618 hahaha facts somehow him roasting tiktoks turned into knowledge that can level your game play up!
Nah when I heard from the first guy that the prices got better I spat out my drink. Bro is in a different universe
Exactly, the prices haven't changed AT ALL he's just factually incorrect
Where did this man get all those discounts I want some
Honestly if anything they’ve gotten worse
Other than the skins, and even then there are still atrocious ones, all you get is some goofy charm that you might never use
Like bruh it ain’t better
gaslit himself right before making that tiktok
The skins have gotten a lot better that’s why the prices went up
The hog one is perfect. The guy is exactly what I'd imagine a hog player to look like.
Exactly what I thought when I saw it 😂
From the poorly groomed hair to the neckbeard... You're so right
honestly but flats doesn’t look very different
As much as I don't enjoy hog, I'm not exactly sure it's a good idea to insult someone's appearance for having an opinion. Even if the opinion is wrong
@@gamingreader2440 no but it's funny cuz they're the embodiment of a hog player. They do it to themselves
"Tiktok comments have picked up recently, they've gotten better" low-key I feel that's thanks to you Flats. You're knowledge of the game has been spread a looooot more via you're content, and thus a lot of the less knowledgeable players are now listening and actually learning from good players rather than the bronze-gold echo chamber.
Mmm, idk about that. I feel as if it's less that they're now more knowledgeable and more so that they don't wanna get cooked alive for their idiotic comments.
@@genesisosuna either way that's a good thing though
The actual dictionary definition of meat-riding
Also how do you get the wrong form of “your” wrong like that? Like, you used the longer version and got it wrong. At least when it’s the other way around it’s because it’s shorter. You’re going out of your way to be wrong
@@themostdiabolicalhater5986 🤓
@@themostdiabolicalhater5986 🤓 “excuse me sir you’re grammar is wrong”
"just bait the hook and kill him" ah yes because a dps will win a 1v1 against the highest damaging character that is semi immortal
he only has 700 hp and the ability to heal for 300 hp in 1 second while also taking 50% reduced dmg, he's SO easy to kill
@@Relevart9169 *350 heals and almost always he'll have supports by him
@@FaDoArthGamesPro when did they buff the healing jesus 😭
@@Relevart9169 from ow1 to ow2 it does half his health, 300 for 600hp but ow2 his health went to 700 and healing to 350
@@dazey856 true ow2 moment
As a tank player, an enemy Zen that can keep their discord up is so stressful because if your defenses go down for even two seconds you get like two or three cooldowns used on you and EVAPORATE. Its as close to being oneshot as possible while playing tank
Zen is one of my most played characters and I started playing him a lot more recently. Didn't realize how strong discord orb was until I played tank against a good Zen. I got nuked so fast I didn't even have time to shift as Ramattra to save myself. Definitely needs to be changed at some point.
@@GGPoohBah i think in current meta, with tank basically being 2-3 DPS, zen's discord is fine
now if they rework tanks and change overall TTK numbers, we might need to bump it down, but with Orisa Hog meta, we need the TTK speed it gives
Even the "number one" Zen player agree that Zen needs to change. The only reason you barely hear about Zen is because of his low pick rate.
@@GGPoohBah I didn't realise either. as soon as i got melted to discord in 2 seconds as Ball, i made it my life's mission to slam on top of zens, kill them over and over and force them to swap. If i don't, i can't do anything. haha
Discord is scary.
I love zen, but im currently climbing the ranks and im at gold rn, everyone yells at me at the start of the game
"Just bait the hook" has the same energy as "You're poor? Just get a job, lol" or the gif of the 2 guys looking at the computer realizing.
Hog Defender looks exactly like what I expect hog defenders to look like
They look like Flats, lol.
If that that hammer slam happened to me I wouldn’t even be mad, I’d be to stumped and filled with the feeling of being impressed of what just happened.
*enemy tank switches to hog*
Guess i’m the worst player in the game then
Since I play Sombra, and she counters hog somewhat well...
Does that make me the best player in the game?
TOP 10 DPS HERE I COME!
@@evangonzalez7732 no sombra in ow2 is the worst pick
@@evangonzalez7732 She doesn't counter Hog wtf
@@WitchNakime He's probably just hacking him as he tries to hook/heal lmao
@@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong For 2 or 3 seconds ? That's not a counter, you're just delaying the inevitable by 1 sec.
As a zenyatta, and general support player, making sure other people are having as little fun as me is what keeps me playing.
That's what I'm saying bro doesn't feel so nice when it happens to them lol
Average Genji main take lmao
Still remember when I survived an orisa ult full charged and a reaper ult just by vaping as hog 💀
Simultaneously?
@@blancange1872 yep, and lived long enough to run from cart to my spawn door
Oh hell no
That damage reduction 😲
@@blancange1872 ive seen hogs survive more. Its impossible to 1v1 him as anything but hog and orisa. The frequency of his heal is whats killing me as a tank main, everytime i eat all his abilities and get him to half he just heals, against every tank dawg all of them except himself and orisa. Orisa is next and sadly as a sigma main i know hes gonna get nerfed after orisa. I agree with it though sigma is too powerful in his own right.
Coming home from school and seeing a new one of these uploaded makes me feel like I did well today
“Can people stop complaining about hog?” *AGRESSIVELY RUNS FINGERS THROUGH HAIR*
Home finally showered for once and isn't used to his hair not being greased down, typical hog player
3:40 average hog fan 💀
he's an actual neckbeard too lmao
tru like i play hog from time to time and know im a piece of shit but hes trying to defend these people like they arent
@@saltminer4463 that dude is like 92% facial hair man's a living walking carpet
@@saltminer4463 He is impressively ugly, like god damn.
Man even looks like Hog
I think removing sojourns ability to headshot with the railgun would balance her out nicely.
Turns it more into an excute of sorts.
It makes her less impactful in high elo games and doesn't really effect the lower ranked game as people aren't going to be hitting many headshots anyway and that's why she's a high elo problem right now.
Agree. 130 bodyshot along with primary fire sounds good enough for me. It takes a lot of the skill of the character/skill ceiling, but she's a soldier widow hybrid with Baptiste's jump, and Ashe's dynamite than doesn't need to be aimed directly
She needs some changes
I honestly think that Solj left click should be the railgun, a slow firing, high impact weapon that acts like a fast projectile.
This bootleg soldier just isnt doing it for me, i hate her auto attack now. I also generally think Mercy needs to be fully reworked, her playstyle has always proved to be terrible in lower ranks, or incredibly broken in higher ranks.
I would rather her be like the link support in paladins, where she can constantly heal who shes hooked with and boost their and her own speed, which would make Lucio not the only speed boost pick and we wouldnt have these damage number issues.
@@scotttimbrell8632 Turn Mercy into Rei?
I agree with this but from a game design perspective it would be weird. It would be the only gun that doesn't headshot and makes an even bigger overlap with soldier. Essentially railgun becomes a hit-scan soldier rocket. Might still be worth it for the health of the game though
@@Doople I agree with your message, but i want to say that your first point is entirely irrelevant. How...in a game full of everyone being completely unique is a slow firing, hard hitting gun out of place? (And lets pretend that you didnt know that Bastions turret form doesnt headshot either) You telling me that we cant have different rules for people? because thats exactly how this game functions right now. (For example Kiriko ult doesnt allow everyone to gain all the effects, like Zen.)
The hog guy with the beard is the wario to flats mario.
The thing that hurts, for me at least, with the Hog situation is that I genuinely enjoy the character. The aesthetic, the brick-wall mindset, the intimidation factor of the Scorpion-style hook, I love all of it. And I still agree that his oneshot capability needs to be nerfed. the part that makes it hurt is that picking the character I enjoy now means for a good chunk of the community that I'm either just a meta slave or picking the broken character because I'm bad at the game (and sure, I might be an average player, but that's beside the point).
I just hope that the devs can get my boi into a state where he's still fun and viable, without just nerfing him into the ground.
I think we need the old ‘oneshot’ four shot combo of shoot hook shoot melee and i think the melee needs to matter
@@lruddy8820 melee matters i use it all of the time i tho think he needs to deal less damage tho from 6.6 to 6
@@yarn7344 i use it too at this point its a force of habit it doesnt really matter you can still get the oneshot without it it only matters if you miss a bunch of the projectiles, it should be no melee no one shot combo
@@lruddy8820 Nah Roadhogs kit is just straight up the most unfun you can possibly have against a tank. He needs his hook to not be "Scorpion-style" He should use it as a debuff to the enemy, to lock someone down as a brief cripple to stop high mobility characters from running rampart. His heal also needs to affect the team in some way. You look at him and you dont see tank, you see massive dps and thats not a good thing.
Well if it helps no one ever liked playing against or with hog. The reason changes over the years but hog was always awful for the collective fun. Besides OW players pretty much only like playing against Rein and maybe Winston.
3:39 This dude's advise is so wacky. He basically just says "just don't die to hog, it's that simple guys'.
Zen is already a high risk high reward hero. No movement, no self heal, his whole thing is to increase his teams damage at the cost of sustain and healing
Yes that’s why he said the hero itself isn’t good, but the ability is not healthy for the game, the ability itself has no risk for the reward
@@dazey856there is a risk because zen is one of the easiest to kill😭
@@ejwennerstrom8299 again not taking about the character but the the ability itself also it’s hard for tanks to kill so los the dps and keep it on the tank ect there are ways to play around it but the ability itself is busted and will more than likely have to be changed in the future
3:16 the all black hoodie, the anime wall scrolls, the DPS god complex that its never their fault.. This dude mains Reaper and occasionally goes Genji when hes either about to watch or had just finished watching some anime.
"just bait the hook" "use ana" is just the hog defenders way of saying "git gud" or "skill issue" at this point.
for countering sojourn i can just say "keep moving" or "just dont get head shot" and its the same impact of meaning
"just bait the hook" is the ow2 equivalent for dbd's "just bait the dead hard"
Every hog apologist looks the same
"just bait the hook" is the OW2 equivalent of "just don't move lul" in R6 when Lion scan was busted asf
Lol the ideology of the OW community sucks bc it’s a complex game that most casual players don’t fully understand. So you end up having people saying they are dying because of x,y, and z instead of realizing they themselves are the biggest problem. It’s an ego thing. It plagues all areas of humanity, not just OW
Flats, discord orb is actually the only reason why anyone below diamond can kill a roadhog or an orissa.
It is very powerful yes, but it is also necessary in the current meta.
I think first we need to nerf those tanks a bit and then we can think about nerfing zen.
My idea of a Zen "rework" would be every team mate does 10% extra dmg to discorded targets. Zen keeps his personal 25% extra damage, but on top, a portion of that damage (like 25% of what he deals dmg to that target) gets transfered as burst healing to whoever has the harmony orb on them at the same time.
This way Zen can actually do skilled burst healing by applying discord and harmony to the right targets at the right time, while also actively landing his own shots to have a direct skill impact on how much healing he does.
I think that'd make playing Zen both more fun and also more rewarding outside of just landing headshots and rightclick volleys.
I get that off supports are design to have low healing on purpose but this idea sounds interesting since his orbs are pretty much set it and forget it.
I ..really like this idea! Actually sounds very fun.
"hog doesn't need to be nerfed" * proceeds to straight up walk off the map*
What if discord reduced healing by a certain percentage instead? Nobody gets sent to the backrooms immediately, but it still has a significant impact like bio nade
genuinely a cool idea probably worth testing
Too easy to apply. Should just drop some of the %
this is genius i would love to see it implemented honestly
@@drkirbkennethkirby7634 dropping the percent is bad cus zen needs it to duel, should just be easier to break los
Funny how support went from being weak to the literally opposite in the couple of months
3:30 is exactly what I think a roadhog main would look like
5:41
5 steps to success:
Step 1: bait the hook
Step 2: use ability to counter it
Step 3: he didn't fall for it and kept his hook
Step 4: your ability is over and you became vulnerable
Step 5: Hog hooks and oneshots you
Hahaha I literally baited a hog hook with reaper last night and I still couldn’t do enough damage to kill him because of his heal lmao
Yup. You could be headshotting him for days and he just brushes it off like it's nothing.
Only dps character I have won 1v1 vs Hog is Mei and only because both the wall and her ice cube blocks hook+the icicle does a lot of damage
The people defending Hog are the same people who complained about Sombra and Genji at OW2 launch.
that one guy has the most "i main roadhog" look i've ever seen
“Just bait the hook” ah yes let’s try to bait the hook and watch it go from 10 feet away from me to on top of me because of the hitbox being very awkward
People forget that kiriko exists lmao
The guy he called cringey was talking just like Flats when he explains things in a condescending tone aha
Maybe a way to switch up discord is by making it reduce the amount of healing the enemy with it on recieves rather than increasing the damage they take
Selective one character pseudo anti-heal sound interesting.
or even make ot so that it reduces the damage the enemy does, so you can even counter it via mercy or something
Leave it as it is but reduce damage increase for teammates
"the angry bee" is such a good metaphor for a fully charged Zarya xD
IMO a short-term fix for Discord orb could be making it fall off of the target after 3 seconds of zenyatta not damaging them. Basically making Zen players have to micromanage their orb more for it to stay on it's target and actively pursue killing their target or refreshing the orb every 3 seconds without. Attention economy is a thing, and it'll be a lot harder to maintain your discord orb on a tank when you're being pressured by a DPS so while discord remains powerful at least it has better counterplay than "leave the fight"... the counterplay becomes "Have DPS that can put pressure on zenyatta and keep his attention off the tank". At least it could be a band-aid fix until they can manage a full rework of the character later down the line.
"Just bait the hook" brings me back to the days of people complaining about Widow saying "All you have to do is click heads"
"Just bait the hook", so mind game the Roadhog consistently? I'm thinking the Hog has the easier job in the scenario, you know that, and won't admit it.
“Just bait the hook.” You know what the hog can do? Bait your bait
"Just bait the hook." Aaaahhhh-- This reminds me the golden age days of Rainbow Six Siege community saying "Just don't move, lul" when people complained of Lion's launch.
a flat nerf to Zenyatta's Discord without either a rework to its function to include a smaller damage debuff and lower healing received by the target OR an adjustment elsewhere in his kit is absurd. he already has low healing output and terrible mobility, and can be dove on by almost the entire roster.
Discord is legitimately the only reason to play Zenyatta at the moment. The ability can only be touched _after_ support had their reworks as promised by Blizzard, and/or Zenyatta himself has a rework to give him different abilities entirely.
But taking his discord orb away or nerfing it with no other changes to his kit would essentially make him unplayable unless the enemy team has a Reinhardt or an Orisa.
3:32
Trent is very smelly with that hog take. I wonder where he places in ranked.
He looks like a hog player to be fair
I think a really nice change for hog would be if he had to do a little spin with the hook for a second before throwing. That allows for people to see that and react accordingly. Maybe even throw in slower look speed during the spin too or a semi loud voice line saying he's going for a hook
God, Zen is one of those characters who probably just need to be fully reworked because they have exactly one feature keeping them afloat and that feature is a bit too good, so as soon as you take that away, the character is just arse.
Like sure, Zen still has good damage aside from that, but he has no mobility, bad heals outside of his ult and no utility. If you don't rework him, his kit simply needs one very powerful ability to really give a reason as to why he even should be played. Right now, that's discord. But if discord was nerfed significantly or changed to work differently, then Zen would just not have a place in the game. At that point, he's just crappy Mercy. Sure, he still hits harder than her but let's be honest, if you just want to murder people, there's other good options on the support roster such as Lucio or Baptiste.
3:30 bro had never once heard of kiriko
if you gave zens discord orb a 3-5 second limit then a 2 second cool down and maybe drop the damage to 20% I think it would help with his discord, and maybe as an buff increase the health gain from the harmony orb just a little
So 1 person takes 20% damage for 5 seconds? Eh that doesnt sound amazing. Youll have to buff Zen quite a bit to allow him to actual do more in that case.
Honestly i think his Orbs shouldnt be LOS related, If youre using your orb on a flier then it frees up mercy for another pick, it also means you dont need to be in a shit spot to heal people and help him be more consistent.
I think his Right click shouldnt be a charge fire type thing, i think it should be a massive orb that deals damage kinda like sig rock, have Zens discord orb be Morias old purple orb thing that prevents damage for a few seconds instead. Just some things i would do personally.
A spicy idea would be that everyone on your team gets a small orb that constantly heals as a passive, but the heal is like 5 per second or something and then you can free up an ability slot for him for something else. That would be fun :D
the way you were saying "lul" actually had me dying idk why
I absolutely love this series
The reason so many people say roadhog is bad is Because anyone that is slightly good with hog isn't in bronze
True
omg that lucio complaining tiktok dude. my brain checked out at 'woman-splaining'. yikes.
also i'm so here for what flats said at the beginning about the nEED for critique and how it enables the possibility for continuous improvement. hell yeah Flats. hell. yes.
The eats for lunch thing got me😂
"Just bait the hook."
You mean the hook with no start up that goes off instantly? You mean the hook that can get you just as quickly as you can peak?
Yup.
Not really true
"Just bait the hook" is the equivalent of "just block the mix up lul"
Optimus Prime is early
"the shop prices have gotten a lot better"
man's gaslighting himself
Perhaps Discord Orb could do damage output reduction from an enemy, instead of the current incoming damage increase. It could be used to shut down pushes from a pocketed DPS
Not a huge fan of that tbh. Remember that ultimates are a thing in this game, so having a character that can just say "your ult does 25/50/whatever percent less damage" with no cooldown or aim required would be disastrous unless you're spending multiple ultimates to round it out and force zen to pick which one he has to break.
Discord is already really good, this is not a good idea.
@@kevingriffith6011 Understandable, his ultimate achieves the same goal anyway
12:30 I think the clip was sarcastic cos of how stupidly long it took to kill the hog
I feel like Zenyatta making a Discord AoE instead of a Discord Orb, sort of like Ramattra's vortex, would be a pretty good way to rework his ability. It introduces the idea of a cooldown naturally, still creates a pretty important amount of pressure for the tank, and it doesn't remove the only worthwhile part of Zen's kit besides his ultimate.
I really like that idea, the discord becomes more of a zoning tool and gives enemies counterplay to escape it. I could even imagine it working like Baptistes Lamp where the orb could be shot down to remove the aoe.
dunno to what extent devs have been hanging out in chats but the openness is welcome. just knowing where theyre thinking of steering the game beyond the next balance patch is a boon
on zens discord -- the ability to ping thru walls to give teammates an idea of their pathing is very strong as well
I agree that Zen might need to be touched in the future. But what would you like him to do? Other than tans, Zen has no burst healing, discord makes him a glass cannon with no movement options. Are you wanting more damage on Zen and less on discord? That would probably make dps less fun against him. Or what? I’m down to be wrong just a little confused
I play Zen a lot. I think suzu was supposed to mitigate the problems around discord but suzu has a cooldown and discord does not. Like Flats said there's also no way of really removing discord as long as Zen is present in a fight. So the logical answer would be to add a cooldown, problem is if they did that they take away Zen's ability to target select by swapping orbs on the fly. Zen would not be able to defend himself from flankers (which is one of his strengths in exchange for him not having mobility or amazing healing) because his orb would be on cooldown most of the time from putting it on the enemy tank. The solution for this I think would be to give Zen 2 charges of his discord orb, but limit him to 1 target, cooldown can be 12 seconds so a tank that breaks LoS immediately gets 10 seconds before being orbed again, but if the Zen keeps LoS he's rewarded with a 2nd orb he can use against flankers if needed.
There’s not really a easy solution but they were stating that the ability itself is not healthy for the game and will need to be changed at some point, not talking about healing or anything like that, they said he’s not a strong hero but specifically the ability
So my eyes are starting to go bad and I just started watching your channel. When it got to the outro area where you put the pop ups on and male yourself blurry, I full on thought my eyesight went for a second lmao
I agree that Disc orb should be looked at but when they eventually nerf it or change it, Zen is going to need some every good changes or buffs to the rest of his kit because right now he is nothing without it, even his ult that was and still should be impactful , can be shutdown with a single E from Ana.
Can somone just correct me if im wrong but couldn't we just make zen have a cooldow for every time somone waits out the time for discord and not in a way that is just like "dicord to tank , switch to another character 2 sec cooldown" but only when waited out
Thats is probably the sanest roadhog main
'That is probably the most delusional roadhog main' ftfy.
Low key high key thou support isn’t even in a bad place rn. It’s just that every other role has some absolutely broken shit that helps them snipe support constantly.
For Discord Orb, I would say give it a cooldown and a duration on the target. And maybe instead of increasing damage to the target, reduces healing by some percent.
The only problem is that would then make zen ass
@@smashkid9196then you give him something else, like a 3rd orb that idk, reduces skill cooldown by 10%? Just throwing ideas around but giving him more orbs sounds fun
Full charge zarya with nano and double pocket, my dude if i had thay im taking the entire enemy team
If they nerf zen then they gotta give him some insane mobility or something. He is like balanced around having no mobility and being a glass cannon, easy dive target. So whatever they do to discord orb would have to balance out his kit. Either more insane survivability or a trade of like debuffing damage done.
Exactly that's why I couldn't believe Flats was agreeing with the guy. Sure discord is now used to make the tanks a little more squishy but the Zen can be killed pretty easily too. All it takes is one flank and the Zen goes back to spawn
They could just replace discord orb with something else, but not mobility. His whole gimmick is that he isn't mobile
@@Grizzy6122 You can't take away his discord without adding mobility. His "gimmick" is that he's a glass cannon, deals damage but dies easily, removing or replacing discord changes that gimmick anyway. If you're going to change something as fundamental to his kit as discord, you need to completely overhaul his whole kit.
@@hona6924 With his regular primary and five orb, he is still a glass cannon without discord. You can replace it with something equally strong but requires more thought than discord, which you just slap either on the tank or the person you are dueling. You can still lean into his identity with a new ability.
@@hona6924 his real "gimmick" is that his character is all about balance that's why their is the discord orb and healing orb. Think of the Ying and Yang for example. A complete overhaul seems strange and doesn't seem like it could work. The only thing that might is to decrease the damage boost of the discord like by 10% and add that 10% to the healing orb. I don't know if that makes sense
Lol first one. Ngl the overwatch community is for sure one of the most hateful communities to their developers. I came in at the beginning of ow2 and I’ve never seen hate like this towards the devs. Kinda wonder why ppl still play the game if they “hate” it so much
I swear some people had brain aneurism and forgot Kiriko exists until a tier list comes along 😂
I think Hog players all have OW1 PTSD where they had to fight 3 different shields and a Bap lamp, so when Hog hooked you it legit was because you were somewhere stupid.
Meanwhile in OW2 i stand behind my tank but somehow the enemy hook goes 1 pixel past my tank and hits me instead, back to spawn for doing nothing wrong
zen is C or D tier already... if u take discord orb out zen is dead fully dead with 0 point to play him.
yea zen can put pressure on the tank but it's a huge risk because his heal is low for the team and he's very diveable with no movement. he also has a large hitbox for a support with a juicy headshot
zen would need a complete rework without discord
That _is_ what Flats said. The discord orb is untouchable until Support gets their promised reworks and stabilize their class to make them more enjoyable
@Nicolás Zan it's not a general rework he'd need (like a new support passive) he'd need a total rework. he'd offer almost 0 value. his hitbox (especially head) being so big would make no sense. his lack of movement or escape would make no sense. his ability to get assists would be cut by at least half. he would be unable to duel since the discord is the only way he has any sort of chance of duelling. even his damage output (his big plus as support) would be reduced by the lack of discord. every part of him would basically become obsolete. with discord now he's D maybe C tier pick at all ranks.... so by definition discord isn't that destructive... if it were he'd see more play at high ranks... he doesn't because the risk of playing him isn't quite valuable enough for the reward in the meta
Flats when he reads tik tok comments:
Intelligent life forms?! It can’t be!
As a Zen main, discord nerf would be terrible. When a Winton jumps me, I need to be able to discord him and tap those headshots. The only type of nerf that could be ok is nerfing damage increase from teammates, but not for Zen himself.
Maybe having discord works for Zen and whoever zen has his harmony orb on. That way the whole team can't take advantage and now Zen has to remember to use harmony orb not just for healing but for utility too. Just a thought.
agree.
25% for zen
maybe 5-15% for teammates
They could keep his damage numbers the same but change around how much of that damage is because of discord. Discord is nerfed but zen as an character isn't affected. They could trade it out for a low percent (10-15%) and maybe compensate by making healing worse for the target by a small amount (5-10%) or giving him a movement ability (they won't but a man can dream).
@Michael I think this makes him way too weak, that's a huge jump from 5 players doing increased damage, to just one or two.
@vini This is more along the lines of what I'm thinking. Zen doesn't need a nerf though, I think a restructuring would be best. Either increase his fire rate/damage, or buff his individual damage output for discord, to compensate for the lower discord bonus for teammates. Either of these I'd be cool with.
Honestly I am so glad doomfist is a tank now. Now that tank is a solo role of the zen just keeps discording you, you can just go doom and just decimate him. So tank can actually do something against zen but you have to be good at him still.
An idea I had for zen is instead of increasing damage dealt by allies but it reduces the enemy damage toward zen and his teammates from said discord enemy like 30% less damage to zen 15% less damage to teammates they would probs need to ad a cooldowns for it tho maybe like 4 seconds
A lot of people have been suggesting this and it sounds even more annoying to play against then hack, and more boring to use zen. It's a bad idea, stop
@@jazay591 Here's the thing. Hack made most characters non characters. This discord rework, while I agree isn't the best idea, still let's you play the game. A 15% decrease, while big, still let's you influence the game, and a mercy damage boost still gives a greater boost against everyone except Zen, who it just balances out against.
@@jazay591 still better then the discord we have now. Don’t mind it as it is another option to limit sojourn.
Ah yes, my second most played character (zen) can bait the hook. Nice
It feels like tank players complain about anything that weakens their ability to pub stomp people 😂
6:05 "youre saying this character should be fixed?? well look there is this other character"
about zen, maybe it would be better if it reduced the damage that the enemy does instead of increasing the damage they take. That way the tank can still do their job but you can use it to counter certain attacks.
Actually smart put it on a damage boosted, sojourn. This will prevent one shots.
They tried that with Moira for the 2nd beta, but it proved too strong on her. Who knows though, maybe it would work better on Zen
“Just bait the hook” ah yes because I definitely have a way to avoid it, and if I use my movement ability his hook will be up by the time mine is up again.
Watching these tik toks with you always makes me suspect that half the OW playerbase huff's paint or something. Christ
Watching tiktok in general does that. I see lots in TH-cam comments or places like reddit, and its bad enough. But when someone looks up tiktok for me, I just cannot. I skipped more than half of this video, just hearing these people take themselves seriously gives me physical pain.
The Roadhog guy needs to scream I Wanna Wreck It and get back to Pixar cartoons.
Zen’s discord should have less damage percentage( maybe 10-15%)but link to other enemies in a short radius ( 5m maybe) and have less of a damage amp on the people that don’t directly have the orb. It also should be the same with zen’s healing, so you can get more value out of his healing but still people that don’t have the orb and are just linked to it would also have to get less healing.
sojourn "nerfs" be like
Probably not the radius as that would make team fights broken as the other side is basically taking 10% more damage. Possibly a combination of both positive and negative effects, 10% damage taken increase, movement buff to prevent headshots, and Possibly increased knockback taken. I have no idea what I'm talking about, being extremely new at the game, a casual, and a zen main, but I feel the essence of discord may be pros versus cons
So flats, zen’s discord orb was reduced to 25% in March of 2019, but they reverted it back to 30% in may 2020. The only change discord got from overwatch 1 to overwatch 2 was the time it fell off when out of line of sight going from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
the reason mercy damage boost is ok is because in order for her to dmg boost she has to stop shooting or doing anything else which reduces the number of people outputting dmg to 4 (4.3 if mercy is dmg boosting) but with zen it is bad because it actually then becomes 5.25 people outputting dmg (more like 6.25 if everyone focuses on the target) thats y zen is broken with discord and mercy is perfectly fine with how her dmg boost works
Every time I play Lucio, I spam “press the attack” when im speeding to engage, and “fall back” when im speeding to disengage. nothing happens, and then people just start inhaling their mics in order to yell at me to switch to heals. I can’t even outheal an ashe dynamite what the hell is that gonna do to keep you alive in a fight 😭
Zen discord change idea: Instead of a damage buff, it gives teammates a % lifesteal, so your team can still focus fire a single target and it somewhat boosts Zen's healing output, but doesn't cripple any single enemy. _Possibly_ give it a very small damage buff effect like 10% just to give a little incentive to shoot while at full health.
I actually really would like that with the 10% damage boost
You mean the Disc Orb still goes to the enemy?
i don't like the idea of lifesteal, BUT i think that you are on the right track on the whole discord and healing orb interacting with each other.
@@jureissicpork4432 Yes. It would still be used to mark targets for focusing fire but wouldn't be as oppressive in 1v1 situations, instead just helping your team stay alive as long as they're hitting their shots.
@@tau-5794 hmm, that could be a good for Zen. Giving it to flanking or diving hero could keep you alive long enough for help to arrive
"There is no war in Ba Sing Se. Discord is fine. There is no war in Ba Sing Se."
"Imagine playing a hero that is only about denying something" that's support 😢
Sorta but supports also have pick/play potential (discord, sleep, ana nade, damage boost, speed boost, kitsune rush, etc) and do ok damage when healing is topped off
I use to bait hooks on a daily basis. But I was also a hog main so I was inside the minds of the enemy hogs most of the time.