MIXED UP BOSS: My Mistake That Lost US BIG POWER. Don't be this guy, 700HP+NOW
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Unity heads back to the race engine challenge Dyno facility in Charlotte NC to find that I had made a big mistake at 3am putting the Cleveland Hi-Ram on right before the big Dyno Day!
Big shout out to Dennis my Dyno Operator for not giving up on getting Project MIXED UP BOSS over the 700hp threshold! he trimmed a bit of RTV that was overhanging inside the intake port face... Given the time on the Dyno I totally dismissed it as "Maybe" 5hp... but Dennis being ever determined felt that the power loss would be big ..I was wrong and he was 100% right!
he took the time on Easter Sunday to get MIXED UP BOSS running how it should!
I can sleep good now!
if you would like to Thank Dennis and Greg
here is the link to the GoFundMe to help out the Dyno guys in their journey to find power even when I had thrown in the towel!
I can sleep good now!!
gofund.me/0cc7...
#nonamenationals #MIXEDUPBOSS #BOSS429
Glad to see the extra effort put out for the extra ponies! Just to emphasize again, yes the small things add up. For all the gear heads out there, if you want yours to run better than the other guy, pay attention to ALL the details.
That's why Glidden was known as "Mad Dog". Unceasing effort to get the absolute most out of his combinations.
I have been a 'car guy' since the 1970's and did my first motor swap(and it ran and didnt burn to the ground...lol) in 1979.....
I have ALWAYS said "...its all those little things you do that add up to being first on race day....." or something like that.....and that cammer sounds strong on the dyno at 7200....lol
Maybe Uncle Tony infiltrated the shop that night n spooged extra silicone in there. Sabotage?
Brahahahahahahahahaha! Good One!!!
CARB CULT LEADER ANDY!!!
I am stoked to see that 700 number now, but the real victory and take away is how freaking awesome Dennis is, that dude is a real enthusiast and wasn't willing to settle. If they were closer to me, I would love to give them a shot
Jed he wouldn't stop till we hit the number... There is still more left because the port match with the epoxy isn't spot on... That's what happens when you try to do it all in one night! 😆. They want to see more... But I'm happy at this point!
Thanks
Andy
Bottle Rocket?? 318?? LOL
Dude went and took a butcher knife to fix a motor on the Dyno. Made 708hp then used same knife to make a sandwich. 😂🤣
Dennis is the Man!
Andy
Congratulations Andy. It's almost like finding money when you do your laundry.
Exactly!!!! Thanks for Watching
Andy
Omfg Dennis holding that knife and the music playing had me rolling 🤣🤣🤣
That’s an engine to be proud of right there. Great work Andy AND Dennis!
Baby-shark I had to add that music... Lol it has been fun working with Dennis and Greg on the Dyno!
Andy
too much oil in the pan? At 6000 rpm it drops from 52 psi down to 42 at 7000. I'd think he wouldn't keep making pulls and resolve the oiling issue.
Just excess windage
@@philipmazzuca2269 what do you do to elimate that? Bigger pan, crank scrapers, better windage tray, lower the oil level?
Past 6k RPM, the oil is getting whipped full of air. The air bubbles entrained in the oil is what causes the pressure drop.
@@Torquemonster440 I get that. The bottom line is the oil is still losing pressure and air, instead of oil is being fed to the bearings. If the rule is 10psi per 1000 rpm then it needs 70psi not 42. I see catastrophic failure in the future for a really long and expensive build.
@Made By Nobody Famous I'm thinking the same thing. There are acceleration forces acting on the oil in the vehicle that aren't present on the dyno.
Hi Andy. You are so lucky to have dedicated people helping you but you probably know that already. Target set and met. Look out Uncle T. Andrew
I am very fortunate!!! That is fursure... Thanks for Watching
Andy
707 and 597. That is pretty darn good
Now THAT is service. Literally No one does stuff like that anymore. Usually you get them trying to sell you parts.
I know.. Dennis and I thought that it had 700hp in it...but he made it reality!
Thanks for Watching
Andy
Dennis rocks, and so do you Andy! Please at some point, install a larger intake-I feel that there is more HP in MUB! Thank you!
TS, On my 429/460 block in my Mustang, it loves 36 deg total timing and 18 deg Idle timing. Andy said his don't respond to that much so he is at 30-32 deg. Interesting.
@@robertclymer6948 efficient combustion chambers? IMHO it still needs more intake manifold, or ultimately an FI individual runner intake.
I think compression is limiting power below 7000. Above 7000 the power drop off is quite steep, more likely the cam is played out.
@@robertclymer6948 totally different engine
Vacuum at 7000 ?
Oh yeah baby
Casper’s gonna blow every single door off of Bottle Rocket! Also do these guys have a TH-cam channel? He did a good job while filming.
Thanks William, I still have a ton of work to get done! Dennis is starting a Channel here in the near future...Stay Tuned!
Andy
429 CID is 7030 ccm so you passed the 100 hp/L line. Congratulations. Very well done. :)
Also respect to Race Engine Challenge Dyno Facility.
I have to give credit to Dennis... He got us there!
Andy
yea it's good per cc no matter what type of an engine
@@lasskinn474 Thanks!!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Dennis is the man. I always calculate hp by HP = (lb/ft x rpm)/5252 and "never" gets the same result as on the dynosheet throug the pull. I did in this case. :D
Also it is 1.39 lb/ft/CID at peak torque, but it is 1.29 lb/ft/CID at peak horsepower and that is very impressive.
Then one has to consider that this is the first attemt with this motor, so, WOW. :)
@@finnroen2334 Dennis is the man... That is forsure! This engine it a torque monster.. making 530lbft down at 3600rpm and it carries that number to 6900rpm! CASPER is going to need good tires... 😆
love FORD STUFF I HOPE YOU SORT OUT THIS SBF BOSS LOOKS LIKE IT HAS LOTS OF POTENTIAL
See, Dennis deserves all the credit given. The Psycho Knife ...........YES!
Yes Sir!!!
With the high expense of this system, they can't make/supply a proper gasket? After all, the whole purpose of a ' dry intake' is for easy on/off for valve train inspection. So, every time it comes off time has to be spent scraping, making sure nothing falls in. ???
That's awesome! I guess that would be similar to the results of good gasket matching from head to intake.
working on no sleep is a killer! when I did hvac all through the 90's working 90 hours a week in 95 degree heat i burnt up some parts here and there. glad to see you got well over 700 horsepower! take care andy and get some much needed rest.
95 degrees outside & 110+ in an attic..... oh yeah, been there and done that in the 90's as well
@@BareRoseGaragei refused a couple attic jobs running ductwork. . wasn't worth it!
When Andy was a boy we were working on the 1969 Boss 429 and we took the heads off some smart engineer thought it would to use O-Rings in the head for everything , So we couldn't turn the car upside down to make sure the heads went together right .A call to Holman Moody made life easier they said bo and get some silicone bathtub caulking and use it to hold the O-Rings in place . After that there was an explosion in the use of RTV and oil pickups loved it . We did too ! because we never ran out of engine work after that . Be careful not to get sloppy with that magic in a tube or " You can Pay Me Now or Pay me Later " as the old saying goes .
That's awesome Andy! I've always thought that a really good dyno operator is worth their weight in gold but he took that to the extreme. Now if you can disguise a more suitable short runner large plenum intake so it looks like an old school weiand.
David, Dennis is really good at what he does... Thanks for Watching
Andy
Throw that tube of RTV into the trash. Don't use RTV on anything on a engine.
Use loctite 518. It only sets between metal parts. Any excess that does squeeze out because you applied too much will be washed away by the fuel rather than leave a great blob like RTV does.
Why didn't you just use a Offhauser dual quad, I know there extremely difficult to find, but wow at least it would fit. Awesome build, absolutely loving it.
That dyno competition idea I mentioned the late model pushrod 5 L engine I would bet money a lot of people would love that because right now the Fox Mustang is arguably one of the most sought-after cars for Hot Rod kids that like American muscle but too many of them are throwing LS in there thinking that the 5 L is a weak POS but most of those kids never get anywhere near 500 hp and I’ve had mine with the Paxton blower on it putting 600 to the wheels for a decade now so give these kids a reason to keep that motor because there are too many mustangs sitting in garages with an incomplete motor swap in them and if the kid just kept the 5 L they would still be driving it
So exactly how much gain did it have?
We went from 692hp to 708hp from just removing the SMALL amount of RTV!
Love your channel BTW I really like how you have the full family involvement that is really cool
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage wow that is a huge jump. Thanks for sharing. Glad you like the channel
@@Sleeperdude yeah "Don't be this guy" lol
Andy
My understanding is that, with a highly tuned tunnel ram setup, you ideally want to have the same, or very close to the same cubic inch capacity inside the intake (plenum and runners), as the displacement of the engine it's on.
I was thinking that you were on your way to the Dyno. Great stuff, and as I have been trying to say that you are blessed to have great people who are surrounding you in the times you need them or help them doesn't matter. A great person is a great person. Grandfather's saying, one of that I can still hear him say today.
Well the guy you're saying not to be like I am jealous of and also inspired by.
Thanks for the kind words...just don't be me and bolt the intake on at 3AM...lol
Andy
Happy 4 ya Andy....!...He is a good dude...on Easter...!...!..Best video yet...! again...thanks 4 the honesty....! Regards,Brian
Thanks Brian! I feel it's important to show the good and bad... We learn from our mistakes...
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage when I made a living work'n on cars...a boss/& friend i workd with had 2 great sayings...." a lesson hard learned...is a lesson...well learned"....&..."everybody makes mlstakes...its a fool that makes the same ones twice"...who would have thought a little silicone could mean "that" much...! I wount forget that...! Cant wait to see MUB in Casper @ the track...like i said b4....I think u will need to get Casper a new "sticker" pair of sneakers....lol...reguards,Brian
Right on bro! Glad you got your numbers! Solid knife 🔪 work lol.
Thanks brother...
You guys worked your a** off on this one and you didn't give up. I'd say Dennis is one of the best dyno operators in the United States . He knows what hes doing thinks of everything, Is very picky and cares about customers
You are right Don! Him and Greg are second to none... Can't wait for them to get their channel up and going!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage me either. That will be great
Those are good numbers, all that attention to detail paid off. And the engine looks beautiful!
Great work as always
Great job guys, way to go
At this point there is more horsepower in the oil pan. Not that pan..... the custom one you pay Stef's to build for ya.
The devil's in the details, great job guys 👍👍🇺🇸
Exactly!!!
Andy
I did a software implementation in NYC in 2002, where I pulled 5, 24 hours shifts in 7 days. Yes, I made some mistakes, because I was just forgetting my shit. But, I always do a QA and caught my mistakes and repaired before going into production.
In the mid 1980's, we were moving equipment and supplies, for the North, from Edmonton to Hay River, and loaded onto barges, can take 30-40 hours. Then hop a plane to Yellowknife, catch an hours sleep, get on next plane to Norman Wells. It is daylight 24 hours and hard to sleep.
Points to the dyno shop that's for sure. Can't wait to see it perform in a car. It sounds AMAZING ringin it up!!
YES!!! Great info, RTV in the ports was worth 15 hp! Just FYI Andy, I use Permatex High Tack instead of silicone on intake ports for that very reason. It comes in a can with a brush and you paint it on, this is the part number I use 80062.
Sometimes we don't pay attention to the little details that cost us power and money
That's right! Burning the midnight oil to get the intake on.. cost me 16hp!
Now it's time to get it in CASPER..
Andy
The power it made is great ....But the oiling issues are bad and needs to be #1 concern.
Great transparency! Tip of the hat to the dyno people who went above and beyond to help you achieve your goals. Very entertaining video.
Thanks... Dennis is the star here! Talk about service
WOW! Dennis is an absolute Legend!!! That’s the sort of mate you want/need around. Somebody, buy that man a beer or 12 and get him a bottle of bourbon!!! 😂.
So stoked for you Andy! Grab yourself a beer too, for building a beast of an N/A Motor!
Dennis is the man!
He kept digging until he found that 708hp!
Andy
Proper portmatchig means no leftover gasket material or sealer within the ports.
Things at 3AM get crazy!
What a great Dyno operating team..Bull Dog is a valuable trait in these situations. Any concerns with the Oil Pressure ?
It was just excessive windage...
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Thanks for answering. Are you using any type of windage control ?
Hells yeah, 700! Helluva goal achieved. Thanks Andy for having us along for this build, now go whip Uncle tony, if he brings slaghammer Git his ass!
Thanks for Watching Jason! Now the real work begins...
Andy
Boss 9s are a hard motor to work with so Connie calitta says but big John mazmainian got his funny car with the boss 9 dual turbos to work fairly good but it takes big money I'm sticking with my 2016 LT1 Chevy with a Z51 option with a high ram intake roller rockers better cam n lifters in my 57 Chevy sedan delivery thanks for the video tony your a great machanic we're always learning new tricks
Richard this isn't technically a BOSS 9 it is a stroker Ford Windsor smallblock that measures 429" it uses Hammerhead Performance Engines BOSS 429 style heads by Greg Brown...
The LT1 combo is a stout piece btw!
Andy
Lack of sleep will affect your judgement, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl are good examples of how wrong it can go, now we can add your overhanging gasket material to the list. Good video Andy, I always enjoy hearing what you have to say.
Thanks James! You are right
Andy
I would think impeded runners would upset the AFR too.
Believe it or not it didn't change it that much!
Andy
That's crazy
awesome! nice job! I'm building a 429 ford. really would love some advice on power with d3ve heads. I ported .
Bill, I don't have much experience with those heads... I do know they can make over 600hp when done right!
Thanks for Watching
Andy
Aussies have similar combo over 900 if I recall correctly.....I think it was Harrop ?
It won't last as long as mine! This engine is a street engine with a mild solid roller... That will go easy on valve springs.
Thanks for Watching
Andy
Brisk racing plugs, Vacuum pump, 13 in, correct oil level, carb tuning, spacers.. 20 plus hp!
A vacuum pump would be a good upgrade... Less oil in the pan could be worth 15hp alone!
Andy
Just like they said, do clean, good work and double check everything. Almost 20 HP just by trimming a gasket. That's how much things can change a modern performance engine these days. Absolutely amazing.
You are exactly right!
Andy
So that is a naturally aspirated engine? You must have done a lot of tweaking to get that much HP out of it. I'm guessing the parts cost quite a bit too. Looks badass!
I have a total of $14k in the whole engine and yes it's NA but it will have Nitrous on it at some point in the near future
Thanks for watching
Andy
Oh sorry Andy I called you Tony forgive me
Why does the oil pressure drop off? Just asking. Think it was 42 psi at 6500. Great video.
Windage...from too much oil in the pan
hey what's the red line on the motor?
wish we had a shop like his in Montgomery, Alabama!
Great job guys!😊
Glen the bottom end could go past 8000 but since it peaks at around 7000 I will limit it to 7400rpm
Thanks for the kind words
Andy
Great news Andy. Like I always say, attention to detail pays off. Great job Dennis, for going the extra mile.
Lession is Don't be this guy fitting the intake at 3AM before the Dyno! 😆 Dennis won the bet...
Andy
I would love to have that motor, and put it in a ‘89 Thunderbird SC. It’s bad ass!!
Thanks Reg,
Andy
Maybe I missed it in this video? But what were the Dyno numbers it was hitting before the RTV was removed??
It made 692/595
Here is the video
th-cam.com/video/JTd5uGkf3AI/w-d-xo.html
congratulations on meeting your goal Andy!
She's a stump puller, 700hp and almost 600ftp wow 👌 he looked after you there ,well done
Yes, he did! Dennis did a great job...
Thanks for watching!
Andy
Both teams working together, at the end both were satisfied
Okay that could be why your A/F ratios were all over the place....some fuel falling out the air stream!
You would think that...but the AFR's didn't change a whole lot afterwards...
great to see that 700 hp goal reached, but how will the transmission feel about it??
Probably not too good! 😆
Goes to show you.Congratulations
little things can turn out to be not so little.
The transition from runner to port is nowhere near matching. With the dual-quad setup, that step kills a lot more power than the small bead of rtv.
On some it's better than others.. I had to rush to make a Cleveland intake to fit on a Windsor...NO easy task!
Andy
Very good demonstration of how something so simple can cause a significant loss of power and also a good demonstration of how close to starving for air that the engine truly is.
Exactly! It wants more...
Andy
As DV says, air has mass.
Go with the flow
What a Champion Dennis is
Great Result Andy
Shoot your are at the very top of the game. I've gained incredible insight watching this channel.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you have enjoyed it...
Andy
That’s great Andy but is it still 30 degrees
Of timing? If haven’t already try 34
Yes... We did a full timing sweep in our tests..starting at 26-32 degs. When we went from 30-32 degs we didn't see anymore gain! So we backed it up.. these heads have a very efficient combustion chamber and doesn't require much timing
Thanks for Watching
Andy
Hey Andy, could the gaskets go on dry? And what about the old school brown shellac? Could that have worked?
I don't know as the gaskets I was using 1262R3 Felpro only had about .125" sealing edge on the top... You have to remember this is a Cleveland intake on a Windsor.. Thanks for watching
Andy
That is the most awesome mix up build I have ever seen great job. Eat your heart out Chevy and Mopar!
Thanks! It's been fun but now the real work starts of getting it in CASPER... Road to the #nonamenationals baby
Thanks for Watching
Andy
Are you going to run it again and adjust the oil level?
The oil pressure changed too much .
While I appreciate your attention to detail and willingness to try things I'm wondering how much of your gains have been from from ring seal improving. Don't know how many pulls you made but many engines will continue to improve from ring seal 8 or 10 pulls in.
Don't quote me on it ..but I think we are around 25 pulls...lol
This weekend I worked late and welded a sump on my fuel tank. The next day I went to install it and realized I had made the rare front sump tank. Smh
I fully understand that!
Nice catch! There are RTV police out there that will jump through the screen and get you for that Andy! But a vacuum leak will hurt one worse than the lost hp. Glad you got to hit your numbers! Ready to see this thing screaming in person!
I need even more power to just keep up with your Barracuda... 😆 Or I need a serious diet plan..lol. I was shocked to see 16hp! Being honest
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage super worth it!
Think Casper's frame will survive 600ftlbs of torque, Andy? 😇
Frame will... Transmission the jury is still out...
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage got that Lenco money saved up yet? 🤣
@@ScottKenny1978 you already know the answer... But ONE DAY it will have one!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I'm just hoping that C-4 survives your first pass on a freshly prepped track. So you don't have to buy the Lenco next week!
Dont be that guy
Now all you have to wis find 15 more hp so you can say you made over 700hp on the dyno. 😈technically you have not yet because the software is adding 3% to your power. No jokes aside it’s doing pretty good! I still think you should be able to crack 750hp and 625tq you just need a better intake and headers. I think those headers that you dynoed with really hurt your torque. Best part is it has been making good power and all staying together! 😎
I really think those headers are a bit too big for the combo... I'm ready to get it in the truck now!
Thanks brother for following along..
Andy
Good job bro finally got the numbers you were after 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks Hippie! Dennis knocked it out of the park...
Andy
Awesome job Dennis.
Congratulations Andy on the Big Steam in The Dyno.
Much respect for everyone's hard work.
Leave nothing on the table.
Great content.
Thank you, EM.
Thanks Ed, I had thrown in the towel... But Dennis didn't give up!
Andy
I am glued to your motor project. I have learned from your vids.
Don't take this a negative, it is a question that bothers me.....maybe nobody else.
if you accepted in your mind that the silicone flashing may be sacrificing 3-5 hp and was willing to let it go..... why were you changing spacers and jets in the corners chading after similar levels of hp?
I am willing to take a beating on my question as opposed to being accused of being a troll.
Besides A/F mixture distribution being critical, I appreciate that, the "don't care" about 3-5 hp from intake silicon troubles me.
i will give you the benifit of the doubt to clarify my question, and misunderstanding, rather than be a turd in attack mode. i am interested either way.
thanks boss (429)....
....some bowtie valve covers are needed....haha..... (old school motorhead razzing I know you get)
William, I had decided to let it go because of time. When on the Dyno time slips you by and by the point we seen the RTV time was almost up... Also I knew I had to remove the intake once the engine was back home so I could relieve the area for the distributor..
Dennis stepped up to the plate and took the time needed to remove the obstructions and it paid off big!
Thanks for Watching
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Your candor is appreciated. 3-5 hp hurts more at my 375 level than your 700 hp.
Hope to see you run at the no-name-nats. Working my better 1/2 for the trip.
700 hp is not going easy on UTG.
-bill
You will probably get the extra power with the velocity stacks.
I have done that test and they do work well on Tunnel Ram setups...
Andy
Excellent! These vids just keep getting better and better!
Thanks James!! That means alot to me...
Andy
Good catch Dennis. I knew it had it Andy. Congrats.
Dennis is the man... It has been so much fun working with him.. I believe there is even more left in it... But I need to get it in CASPER!
Andy
I think the BOSS wants to eat a mopar😋
p.s. Andy. Don't tell, David about that shit. He'd love it!
I bet he would!
Will be sending my go fund me as soon as I get paid next Wednesday Andy and Dennis! Thanks! Great job Dennis, such attention to detail, so it is the little things after all! Happy for you Andy, now get MUB back in Casper, Uncle Tony is waiting. lol
Robert, thanks! I took your suggestion.... Those guys are top notch
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage No doubt about it Andy, few and far between!
NICE !!!
That's one for the books. Good job guys!
Thanks Bill for Watching
Andy
Holy cow, that's badass! 708
Sounds super good. Super stoked for ya!
Thanks Bill! I'm pretty excited..
Andy
The Easter Bunny brought HP!
Exactly!!!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I'm happy for you brother. You put a lot of effort in that build. Congrats!
How do we get to 750hp & 645tq? next step for Mixed up BOSS.
I don't know... Might find out down the road... 😆 Thanks for Watching
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Induction Changes? My best guess or cam timing.
@Made By Nobody Famous How about throwing everything including the kitchen sink at it?
Then you are talking 1000+HP! These heads have already made close to 1200hp NA!
Awesome Job! Guys. 700+ Andy. There is a better sealer than silicon for that surface. It's called (FIPG) Made by Toyota part # 00295-00103. I used to work at the dealer. It goes on like RTV. Is stands up to oil/gas etc. It basically turns into rubber. You can bolt a valve cover on with it. remove the v/c bolts the next day. And run the motor. FIPG stands for Form In Place Gasket. It's avail on e-bay. You should try it. I use it on intake china seals. It never leaks.