The church critics have played you for a fool. See how they manipulated the book of Abraham context to make it look like Smith couldn't translate. He got it 100 percent right. See how they tricked you. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link my name Paul Gregersen to get there if needed
Long live RFM & Bill Reel. Thanks for your dedication in shining the light of truth on an organization that continues to lie and manipulate to continue to create the illusion of God's chosen organization.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s one, true Church on the earth. Those who struggle against the Lord’s true Church and His anointed will struggle only against themselves.
This talk completely blows the idea that this church is really “Honest, TRUE, or benevolent. I was so naïve concerning the honesty of this church. I can’t wrap my mind around this church using the name of our Lord and redeemer.
I was once one of those "loyal, devoted and inspired associates" to whom Packer spoke, carefully teaching only that which was in our seminary manuals. That was then; this is now. Oh, that I knew then what I know now thanks to RFM and Bill Reel! Love you guys!
I truly am stumped why all of you on Mormon Discussion don't have millions of views! AWESOME info, reality check, validate those who have left the cult etc. THANK YOU !!!!! I'd love to adopt you and Bill. 🤭💕
I have never been offended by mistakes, but I really get upset over attempted cover ups. So, I pay close attention to how one responds, reacts and pivots.
If you truly don't like cover ups then see how the anti Mormons have played you for a fool. The book of Abraham was translated 100 percent correct and here is the verification they have hidden from you. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link My name Paul Gregersen to get there
Astonishing. My eyes are being open. So grateful for your time in doing your research and sharing. Many years ago I saw the 17 Miracles. It made me so angry that people follow the "authority" and suffered so much and death going across the plains in the winter. I couldn't understand why they couldn't use the brains that God has blessed us with.
I haven't been in the church since my late 20s in the late 90s. But I remember the church leadership always talking about "intellectual pride" to church members. Intellectual pride meant questioning anything you are told, using critical thinking skills and examining evidence--thinking you might know better than anyone "called of God."
As someone who was born in the covenant in 1980, I'm very frustrated to hear how my personal church experience was shaped this way on purpose! It shouldn't come as much of a shock that the truth coming out later is a breeding ground for massive outrage for those of us who would have believed in it all anyway, regardless of what it was. To be openly lied to is an automatic shelf-breaker for many. AKA the prophet was allowed to lead us astray. Many prophets have been allowed to do so, and were allowed to live.
So why do they have restricted archives in the first place? I'm bothered as to why this religion keeps so many secrets... Not just about history. Also financial information, rituals, etc.. Seems a bit cult-like.
@@vivianboxer6045 Yes, I'm afraid I have to admit that my family on both sides were duped int joining what can only be described as a cult. I can't blame them, information was hard to come by when in the 19th century.
As an exmo… the reason they’re so successful is because they’ve instilled fear in its members… leaving this church is the worst sin of them all… it’s “apostasy”
What’s interesting to note is that this speech happened around the time of the Salamander Letter. It’s the paranoia and wish to suppress information that led to that tragedy
FYI, as late as 2012, Snow's couplet is mentioned in, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church, Lorenzo Snow, Chater 5, The Grand Destiny of the Faithful, Page 83. For Hinckley to not know if the doctrine was being taught, HINCKLEY WAS LIEING!
Lying to me is for my own good it seems…sad…I wanted so much as a young teen to get my religion right with God to plan my future life and family…I rejected the horrifically complicated Catholic Church with all its bloody history and hidden gold and treasures, non accessible documents hidden from the world…the sexual coverups…I was a sitting duck for the “restored“ Cinderella story…paying 10% of my very tangible “ increase” for non-tangible fairytales…good grief…I so needed it to all be true but I have to admit..I loved all about my church…if only Smith could be erased…. Never ever liked anything about that character…not even his face … thank you Bill Reel and RFM and others like you… 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
I really liked the information and agency part you mentioned at 44:01, as a non-Mormon I never heard of Satan's actions when looking at this religion as an outsider but it really reminded me that I had no sex ed from family or the Catholic high school I went to and had to learn that on my own after I left, I was also fed all sorts of propaganda and misinformation when it comes to abortion and birth control and even though I'm a guy all of that had an effect on my agency for years. Perhaps that was one of the reasons why I was so resentful towards my former church for almost two years after I left, main reason being that I really felt I was lied to for years and my repression ultimately was for nothing now that I look back at it (I like to think that more recently I've made peace with my past however). Even though I don't have a horse on this race I still like to listen to this podcast so thank you for posting this archive.
RFM you make it all so clear! I left the church and my “covenants” many years ago and have finally become authentic! I knew Leonard Arrington and had permission to access the church archives. I could not make xerox copies and could only take hand written notes. Did you know a whole chapter of the D&C dealing with JS polygamy was removed? I think it was D&C 130. They just changed the numbering.
It is amazing that he felt comfortable and secure enough to actually give this message. God is not supposed to be a purveyor of 1/2 truths. I guess we should be happy that those documents which are now restricted haven't already been destroyed.
Excellent RFM! Way back in the day Leonard Arrington used to be our neighbor when he was at Utah State nice man! My parents thought a lot of him. I remember when the Arringtons moved to take a church position I think it was while I was still living at home when I was young a very long time ago since I’m in my mid 70’s now. Enjoy your shows very much! Keep it up!
could you do a video about what the church believes now? everything that was supposed to be a lie is now truth so what exactly do they believe? only thing i can see that hasnt changed in some way is tithing?any way i am so curious and would appreciate your insight.
Wow this is amazing! Such a good deconstruction of that talk, it just shows how phrasing things in a certain way can be so deceptive. That talk is super hypocritical and against the teachings of Jesus which they say they follow.
I joined the church as a teen 60 yrs ago. My vigor of testimony was never framed on the CHURCH, OR ITS LEADERS... BUT RATHER ON THE RESTORED GOSPEL JOSEPH BROUGHT FORTH. I do recognise and enjoy your podcasts, although I prefer those with visual components. I left the church to fen for itself abt 4 yrs ago and by finding the gospel of repentance, my life has been enriched and blessed. Now I find my retirement has allowed me much time for study, prayer and pondering. I spend less time finding fault ("judge not that ye be not judged") and more time trying to share my testimony of repentance. The brethren have not and will not preach REPENTANCE... as God has given them as their mission. We, who are awake know they are not "prophets, seers, and revelators" nor are they shepherd's or servants to us. They leads down "satans, lack of freedom paths" by making alliances with satan's chorts including governments. Isaiah states the brethren are drunken, all their tables are full of vomit, their feet are set against the edge of hell. I care abt them, but they have lost my respect. Isaiah states clearly God has lost His opportunity to bless our nations because we have not become converted Ephriamites, we remain Gentiles. I count myself with the same Gentile approach to life, but I'm striving to please and better serve God, striving to develop charity... 2 Peter 1:1-20... Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
I got permission from Leonard Arrington to do the initial research for the book: Emma Smith an elect lady. It was the first and last time that was allowed. I spent months in the church archives. I was allowed to take notes; but could NOT make copies of anything!
I'm very interested RFM, if you have any introspection on what caused both you and your brother to join two separate "high demand religions" in your early adulthoods? Or is that too personal a question? I don't think it was addressed in your episode on Mormon Stories, but maybe i just missed that part.
How can anyone argue, at this point, that it's not a cult? "Don't listen to anyone but us. Everyone else is lying. Here's what we want you to know. Now give us ten percent of you earnings or you're going to hell." Glad I got out. Thank you RFM.
R B I can tell you how... It is still the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints... We all go to our Father in Heaven and His Son, and read their words.. There is always ample confirmation of their Truth through the Holy Ghost.. Did you ever do that??? Did the Holy Ghost testify to you that the Church is Not True??? No one has to pay tithing either...Go ahead, go against what it says in Genesis... No one is going to hell for not paying tithing.. All of this is just people bashing... Nothing more... Is Anyone on this earth perfect???? Are you, R B??? It is ironic that the cult you call the Church is exactly what you and all these other people have fallen into... Your own bash the people of the Church cult... See how it goes for you when it's time to stand before Him and He asks you what did you do with your life down, there, R B???? What are you going to say you did??? Good luck with that..
@@frandanco6289 Stop bringing that argument that the holy spirit would testify or let you know when something is true. You can't rely on the way you feel to know if something is true or not. All the warm and fuzzy feelings we have and think is the spirit is not, also if the spirit would really let you know when something is real how is that other people from other religions say they also asked God and he let them know that the church they are is the true one. How.is God telling the same to all diferent religions. Seriously facts and evidence is the only way to know is something is true. I have felt the same emotions I had in the church when I watch a movie about a fictional character.
I am a never mormon but was exposed to all of this thru my grandma’s church and church camp and the ravings of my insane father who really admired joesmithjr and the parts about young girls especially…DisGusTing
This is what took me out. I “knew” the church was true. I was always fascinated in history and archaeology and so i chose that as my major in college. I was excited to “prove” the church true by what i learned through archaeology and history. I distinctly remember once semester taking Book of Mormon in institute one period and Meso-American Anthropology the next hour. I would actively try to relate the two days lessons. Long story short, it was my attempt to specialize in scriptural truth archaeology that made me realize it was all false. Not just the Mormon beliefs but Christianity as a whole. The more you know!
@@inChristalone1960 OMG are you calling me a ‘Rough Stone”? Did you know my business’ name was Rough Stone Rolling Lapidary or was that just by coincidence?
Some church members when given an opportunity to steal the wealth of an elderly man or woman believe this poor sole was made available to them by God because of the faith and obedience. A REWARD!
Nothing irritates me quite like when I see references to 'so-called scholars or intellectuals'. After all, if there was EVER a title that deserves the 'so-called' prefix, it has to be 'Prophet, Seer and Revelator'.
When I taught the 16 year olds in SS, I thought it would be great to give them a list of JS’s prophecies. Couldn’t do it. Even his civil war so-called prophecy was retrofitted. Right up to now - the title “prophet” is meaningless. Seer? Revelator? Nope. They can see their way to buy a ranch in Washington ($209m) and a Marriott hotel in Hawaii ($149m) just last week. A nice hardback copy of the BofM is provided in every room which I imagine makes Jesus proud. Meanwhile you can run downstairs to the bar for a Mortini or to Starbucks for a grande Latte de Saints.
@@DancingQueenie Actually I have done some major research on this and this is what I discovered. When Oliver Cowdry attempts to translate the Book of Mormon he tells Joseph he can't see anything. Joseph responded as if coming from God and said " you thought I would just give it to you when you took no thought to study it out on your mind and in your heart. Knowledge + Understanding = Revelation We are the only creatures on this planet that have the ability to learn new information and with that knowledge come up with new innovative ideas. We are so use to coming up with new ideas that we don't really think about where these ideas come from and even scientists today can't figure it out. What happened when someone comes up with ideas without any knowledge? Well that is what we call a guess and sometimes it's an educated guess and then there is another one I call intuitive guess and that's because some people have sensitive intuition. 1) Guess 2) Educated Guess 3) Intuitive Guess 4) Revelation A lot of the inventions that happen today come from revelation. The way you decide to raise your children can be revelation because you know and understand what motivates your child, but sometimes it is an intuitive guess. A seer is someone that can see into the future. For example if you decided you wanted to become a school teacher and you start college, when someone comes up to you and says what are you going to do after college, then you would respond "I'm going to be a teacher" this my friend is a seer. If you see a car heading directly at you and you swerve to miss the car then action you made was because you foresaw the event before it happened and stopped it from happening. A Prophet is literally someone that professess the teachings of Jesus Christ. So if you teach a child not to steal, or to show love to one another then you are acting as a teacher of truth or in other words a "Prophet" and if you teach something that is not true and treat it as truth then that would be a false teaching or in other words a "False Prophet" What does this all mean? It actually means just the opposite of what you stated that they are not prophets, seers, and revelators, but actually ALL Mankind are Prophets, Seers, and Revelators and we do this based on our knowledge and understanding. We can see throughout history how our knowledge and understanding has evolved in order for us to become better people. This also means that the leaders in the church are just as much prophet, seer, and revelators as we are. For example leaders in the church use to say that it is an abomination to have a mixed marriage. Where they wrong? Well of course it was but according to peoples knowledge and understanding back then it was not wrong. There were actually a lot of members objected to the church allowing blacks to have the priesthood. Today the church still take the stand against the LGBQ community, but as we gain more knowledge and understanding about the LGBQ community and people become more comfortable with it, then policy changes happen and sometimes it is even shocking. This doesn't just happen in the Mormon church but all churches are effected.
@@danite1742 Ok then. You’ve done the research so you can give me a list of JS’s top ten prophecies i.e. announcements of future events that actually came about. Learning more about LGBT then making policy changes isn’t exactly leadership much less prophesy. Taking a survey of members’ attitudes about the temple ceremony then CHANGING the ceremony isn’t prophecy. Bending to the will of the US government, changing the policy and denouncing the “new and everlasting covenant” isn’t prophecy. (Not exactly new and certainly not everlasting.) JS secretly “marrying” 30+ women (some of them living in the same house with his wife) and LYING TO HIS WIFE AND STANDING BEFORE THE CHURCH AND BLATANTLY AND REPEATEDLY LYING? That’s bold way of life for a “prophet” of god. He prophesied he’d be struck down by an angel with a flaming sword if specific women/girls refused to marry him but he had no fear of said angel when he LIED to cover his evil tracks. Spending billions of dollars to bulldoze small businesses and build a mall? Denouncing the nickname Mormon? Thousands of baseball baptisms that resulted in the “leadership” forming stakes and building meeting houses that nobody ever attended? Paying Mark Hoffmann hundreds of thousands of dollars for fake documents? Covid? RMN didn’t call in the missionaries or advise the world to prepare. He was obviously stunned by the whole thing. Best he could do was call for a “worldwide” fast. Oops. Didn’t work. Try again. Dang it. Let’s have that list of JS’s prophecies of future events that would warn and prepare the people. Or any of the latter day so-called prophets, seers and revelators’ prophecies for that matter.
@@danite1742 BTW, from the condescending tone and examples you give in your reply, I think you might’ve misread my comment. I’m not a 16 year old hoping to be convinced that JS was a prophet, seer and revelator. I don’t need to hear that “people back then” thought mixed marriages were wrong. Gimme a break. There were two mixed race couples in my ward at the time the church finally bent to outraged public opinion, including protests at BYU basketball games - and they were building a temple in Brazil and realized few Brazilians would be eligible to attend much less officiate. It was a clearly racist policy and the “leaders” didn’t care until it became expedient. I taught the 15/16 year olds for 10 years and one reason they liked me was because I didn’t approach them with that patronizing tone. Several young people mentioned in their missionary farewell talks they appreciated that I spoke to them like they were intelligent adults and lead them to think and discuss.
@@DancingQueenie It's like you just want to vent and through all this stuff out there because your mad at something. What's up with that? You must not have read my whole post. What I said is that we are just as much Prophets, Seers, and Revelators as the leaders in the church. I also explained that we are evolving as a society as we gain more knowledge and understanding.
Boyd Packer didnt say suppress information, he implied it. This is gaslighting. NO it wasn't the contribution of the commenter. Packer and other leaders have frightened you so much that it's hard for you to hear the truth. "Prove ALL things , hold fast to that which is good." Thessalonians. It took me several years to find the courage to read anything about the LDS church. When l finally did, l learn they had been lying to me, but God is truly faithful.❤️🔥
University of Utah has A LOT of church history they keep hidden from the public! One of my cousins was working on a project for the University and she was allowed in this area that contains this info., she was shocked to say the least!
I wasn’t aware there is such a thing as “advanced history”, and how this can cause injury to the church and destroy faith. I’m waiting for the part when he says “ you can trust me I’m honest”. 😂
I was a missionary between 2016 to 2018 and I never heard about those stuffs, never related to treasure digging, seer Stones, poliandry or leaders hidden the truth. My apologies for mistakes, I'm still learning English
I am “inactive” (what we used to call A Jack Mormon) a member from 1980 to 1991, and heard all of this in context and met Boyd K Packer in the Eighties and heard him speak at Youth Conferences. I can verify this post is on point. Thanks!
Re transparency [around 0:46] "There's still room for improvement" ...??... Given that Mormonism’s entire history, from the very outset, treds deeply in falsehoods, THAT right THERE is an UNDERstatement!!
Was the first vision true? My initial question would be to which of JS’s first vision stories are you referring, since he wrote several and told several others, all of which were long after the described event. Since the official version is also the last version, after undergoing many iterations and changes, it is unlikely to be a true telling. Since the earlier versions don’t match current church doctrine, they are unlikely to be an accepted telling. After studying the versions and background, and speaking only my own belief, the answer to your question is: No, the first vision did not happen, it was fabricated.
@@kylestringham121 I have a hard time believing Joeseph and Hyrum would die for something that was a lie. They didn't gain riches for fabrication of their stories. It was just the opposite. In my own personal experience of being so close to death and being asked a ? about the truth of something I certainly told the truth. Fear has a way of doing that to a person.
@Randy L. Actually, I don’t think they died for the first vision fabrications. By the end, they were playing fast and loose in a lot of areas and making enemies fast. Their polygamy knew no bounds, destruction of the expositor and printing press, etc. They made up their own rules and trampled anyone who got in their way. They got so deep in their own stories that they lost control of the situation, and in the end paid a price. I once had belief as you do now, and I’m glad it works for you. But for me, the mountain of evidence against JS finally stripped me of that belief.
@@kylestringham121 I understand how all the things that are surfacing today with IoT can make one lose faith. It happened to my own son. He is atheist. As for me I just can't believe it all started with a big bang. If I ever believe that I would seek revenge on those people that hurt me and sought to take my life. Survival of the fittest?? There must be a higher law than that!. It can't be government because they are worse than the laws of nature. As for as religion goes I was raised Catholic and knew from an early age that wasn't the truth and every thing else broke off from there. I never was interested in religion from the start. So who knows my friend? Maybe your right but I HOPE not. Take care and ✌.
@@ranjanty JS was a scryer, a con man from teen yrs on. The best cons are the ones that are so fantastically out of possibly true that you then believe it is too fantastic to be made up, thus begins the con. In Kirtland, create an illegal bank, print your own money when you run out of other people's money. Preach the adversary is after us so we need to move. In Nauvoo "run for US Pres", name yourself King, have your goons burn the newspaper about to expose your 33 wives, their ages, their husbands, etc. JS was probably a sociopathic liar. He was so good at it. Then a power crazed, racist, giant of a man ceases control becomes "prophet" by foul means and becomes governor, had his own 3 favorite goons to enforce & eliminate opposition. The rest is all just a cover-up after the 1922 Secret Mormon Meetings (MS episode 1346) where all the truths were discussed and the Q15 decided on the deep vault to hold all secrets from the faithful. That is until Brodie, Quinn, Tanner, Roberts, Arrington, Vogel, Dehlin, Ritner, Decker, Palmer, Larsen, Runnells, Reel, RFM, Streeter, Young, Miller, and THE INTERNET.
"Faith Promoting" means no facts needed, I just beellliiiieeevvveee, and I experience Elevation Emotion so much so that you will continue to pay tithing, teach untruths, remain silent, just to reinforce your Sunken Cost Fallacy that this is the one and only true church. And all those critical thinkers (former Bishops, RS Pres, Prim, YMYW ldrs, Seminary, Institute, Gospel Doctrine teachers who studied their brains out to be the best teacher for eager students) that discovered the Corporation of the First Presc'y has been concealing the truth and lying to the members about actual church history are being deceived by Satan so stay away, shun them, for they must be secret sinners if they found the Truth claims of the church are Lies just like the brethren did at the Secret 1922 Mtgs and every subsequent Q15er.
With its billions $$$$ why doesn’t the Church pay its Seminary teachers and gospel doctrine teachers a teachers salary.(eps. Full time high school seminary teachers)This is an honest question.
Elder Packer's analogy, comparing church historians to lawyers working for a corporation could be also framed as lawyers in a criminal trial. I believe prosecutors are legally (and Morally) obliged to share evidence with the defense attorneys. Are defense attorneys also required to share evidence with prosecutors? In that framework, would what Elder Packer suggests be illegal? Or at least cause for a mistrial?
Great video RFM! Fun irony: I saw a commercial right after the mention of “so called” and it had the same syntax. Who wants to guess the organization? PragerFU (go Devils!) Also, Watch Mr. Deity.
I can’t find a word bad enough to describe all this deception and spiritual abuse. It’s been the same since the beginning of this church. Whatever goes uncorrected and unrepentant of flows on and on, to paraphrase CS Lewis.
So, Janice Graham, as terrible as you describe the Church, since the beginning mind you, did You ever get on your knees and pray for Confirmation of the Truth??? Ever???? What was the answer??? Did you ever do what our Savior did all His life and Serve others??? Did you not ever feel the Spirit testifying of the truth??? Comforting you???
@@frandanco6289 I have spent much time on my knees. I rec'd the same confirmation as when I found out salted caramel, dark chocolate covered toasted pecans were the one true dessert. Well until, I discovered gooey caramel popcorn.
Joseph Smith, quoting John the Revelator, indicated this gift is so important that( every “man who has the testimony of Jesus,” is a prophet, “)(for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. -Revelation 19:l0th )verse” (TPJS, p. 119) In ancient times it was thought that only a few people could be prophets. In fact, they often declared that they wanted only a certain person to be a prophet for all the people. Joseph Smith said this was a wrong concept and declared: . . . the people should (each one stand for himself, )(and depend on no man or men)( in that state of corruption) of the Jewish church-that (righteous persons could only deliver their own souls)(-applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-)said if the people departed from the Lord, (they must fall-that they were depending on the Prophet)(, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves), . . . (TPJS, pp. 237-238) And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. And [91] Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (Num. 11:25-29)
Half truths are often more deceptive than total lies. The Mormon Church is not becoming more truthful as much as it is becoming Moore cleverly deceptive
Oh, your eyes were not yet open. What that verse actually said was: "I am the way, the faith-building-only-truth-and-if-you-share-all-the-truth-I'll-damn-your-soul-to-apostasy-land, and the life." :)
Satan wants to tell the truth to put a bad light on something or someone , but ultimately Satan is the master of lies and he will lie on top of any truth .
The most tragic aspect of cults is the internal, self-imposed treadmill effort. Exhausting. Pathetic. Wasteful. Life is sufficiently challenging, without supporting vain egocentric, extravagant nonsense. If God is cruel, all churches are legit.
43:13 About that buying a used car analogy, you've got to agree that you don't need to know who had sex in the back seat before buying it. Right? Am I right? It shouldn't affect the quality of the car or how you feel about the car. The salesmen doesn't need to disclose that. The church is the used car... a very used car... that a whole lot of people up and down the ecclesiastical food chain have been getting it on in the back seat. But the car will still get you to work and back home every day.
The thing with analogies is the church is the grand master of using them and it's getting to a point where they've run out of original content and are now recycling and mixing it to come up with the weirdest shit out there... like linking penguins and tragic car crashes??!!! say what?
Whether or not someone had sex in the back seat of a used car is not the issue. That would not affect how the car operated. The issue is that the car did not operate properly and the salesman did not disclose that information.
No. The used car analogy would be more like, was there flood damage to the car, and not disclosed? Folks have a right to know the true history of a car’s mechanical issues, AND the church’s history.
There are millions of very happy latterday saints because we love Jesus Christ He told us in the bible that people will say all kinds of evil against us but not to worry because they did it to Him also it is a sign we have the truth also it has caused people to search for the truth and join the Church
"And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? Wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?" "And put my cup, the silver cup..." "Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth?" Genesis chapter 44
Are you implying that because men in the Bible lied, that it is okay and acceptable for men who claim to be prophets today to lie? Tell me again who is the father of lies?
@@zon3665 Read my comment again. I did not condemn the Bible. I used the Bible to make a point, which was, that the Bible tells of men who lie, then I asked if that justifies supposed "men of God" today in lying. Your "knee jerk response" shows that you are not thinking logically.
BKP completely earned this truthful dissection you present. The guy was clearly evil. But on Hinckley and King Follet Discourse, modern Mormons are under no obligation to believe such uncanonized works, so I have to side with Hinckley on that one. I'm mystified that both Mormon critics and believers continue to cite the King Follet Discourse as some kind of present Mormon creed. At best it’s Mormon apocrypha, and Hinckley answered honestly.
Please take a deep prayerful reconcideration of all the prophecies of Joseph Smith. One cannot cherry pick his prophecies from the pulpit , lol, dismiss them as him speaking as a man when he was clearly serious. The Biblical standard is ALL prophecy must come true! Hinkley said The LDS follow another Jesus ( paraphased). How is this not IDOLATRY!? the Temple endowment reflects that belief, as well as a dismissal of the Biblical Father God. Smh. 💔 Blasphemy. The LDS have been taught by example that they have the authority to play fast and loose with scripture and prophecy. Joseph Smith was an occultist , Freemason who had demonic influences. Please continue to prayerfully research. Respects.
ROFL I can’t stop chuckling and I love your brain. Yes, he is a leader of the modern day gadiantons. It started with Brigham Young and his polygamous brotherhood. D&C 101. Please research that era. Your take on it would be magnificent.
"....To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Revelation 2:17
I've listened to this a few times now and have to say that I think it's your best. Packer's war/corporation analogy fails because it's only human organizations that utilize principles to achieve some sort of utility. i,e. they judge the righteousness of the principles by they effect they have on achieving the org's goals (usually profit or self-perpetuity etc). God's organization, if there were one, would be the complete opposite--the principles become the goal despite whatever utility (or lack thereof) results from adherence to those principles.
Pay attention to Elder Ballard’s daughter in law Congresswoman Melissa Ballard. Perhaps she has aspirations of running for Utah senate and wants her father in laws endorsement.
Telling everything to feeble minds is more harmful than useful . I used to think like you ,but now I know that you tell a person the truth if they are ready to understand
@@joehinojosa24 People often dream (or less frequently, hallucinate) at night. Dreams and hallucinations of Satan are not evidence that Satan exists. I do not claim that Satan exists. Others that claim Satan exists have not substantiated their claims. This is why I dismiss their claims. This is the same reason why I also dismiss claims about the existence of the Loch Ness Monster or Santa Claus. EDIT: Also, are your comments sincere or sarcastic? I can't tell.
The problem with a lot of anti-Mormon material is that is does lie. And so the lies discredit all the content that is true (a logical fallacy but it’s sufficient for many minds to dismiss the content). If they would stick with facts and stop going after assumptions or insane theories, I think they would make a lot more progress. John Dehlin is a great example of someone who lied about his excommunication, and the released letter proved he was being misleading and had to invent what he felt the excommunication was really about. Which made it debatable instead of a solid argument. This has been the case with books for a hundred years.
Indeed, I’m joyously out the LDS church. I can objectively say the anti Mormon crowd did hurt their own cause. The book The God Makers, yes there is a book to go along with the comical cartoon, was particularly egregious in the falsehood to truthful assertions ratio lol. Kingdom of the Cults by Walt Martin is far better at sticking to the facts. Anti Mormon literature was a cottage industry in the “ Christian “ world. Another goofy group. The trip to the Christian bookstore was fun back in the 80s, they typically featured entire racks of anti lit for me to “ debunk” lol. Good times NOT! By the way I think J Dehlin might be the most self absorbed person in Utah.
What about the Gospel Topics Essays? All that information covered in those essays… were in the past… considered antiMormon literature… by the CHURCH. NOW THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT IT AS IF THEY’VE ALWAYS SAID IT WAS A PART OF ITS HISTORY.
Read universal model, shows scientifically that yes scripture is right, secular theories of geology biology etc are wrong. Also arringtons problem was insisting on using the testimony of scoundrels and liars like Hurlbut as his main source.
God was less than "accurate" with Adam and Eve, while the serpent was actually truthful, regardless of his intentions. God's decision to hide things from them is what led to the original sin, something God should have known about it. Humanity was doomed to fail from the very beginning by its creator through deception. I am not surprised that the clergy of any religion do the same and call it righteous.
So, you Alexandro Rocca, have absolute confirmation from the same Holy Ghost that I have confirmation from, that God was less than accurate????? wow...
This is such a powerful podcast RFM and I thank you for it.
The church critics have played you for a fool. See how they manipulated the book of Abraham context to make it look like Smith couldn't translate. He got it 100 percent right. See how they tricked you. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link my name Paul Gregersen to get there if needed
Long live RFM & Bill Reel. Thanks for your dedication in shining the light of truth on an organization that continues to lie and manipulate to continue to create the illusion of God's chosen organization.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s one, true Church on the earth. Those who struggle against the Lord’s true Church and His anointed will struggle only against themselves.
Yeh...dont study brigham young then..his racism..scheming..lying and fraud was inspirational.. 😢@@herbofallon965
Him invoking the covenants is even more intense when you realize in the 80’s they were still dragging their finger across their throat in the temple.
Exactly what I thought when Packer said covenants: slit throat ear to ear, slice open abdomen from side to side across navel.
This talk completely blows the idea that this church is really “Honest, TRUE, or benevolent. I was so naïve concerning the honesty of this church. I can’t wrap my mind around this church using the name of our Lord and redeemer.
I was once one of those "loyal, devoted and inspired associates" to whom Packer spoke, carefully teaching only that which was in our seminary manuals. That was then; this is now. Oh, that I knew then what I know now thanks to RFM and Bill Reel! Love you guys!
I truly am stumped why all of you on Mormon Discussion don't have millions of views! AWESOME info, reality check, validate those who have left the cult etc. THANK YOU !!!!! I'd love to adopt you and Bill. 🤭💕
Dear So-called scholar RFM thank you from the depths of me and all your listeners.
This is one of the best episodes ever! What’s ironic is we were both in Japan teaching the correlated material when this talk was given!
You too huh? Sapporo
I have never been offended by mistakes, but I really get upset over attempted cover ups. So, I pay close attention to how one responds, reacts and pivots.
If you truly don't like cover ups then see how the anti Mormons have played you for a fool. The book of Abraham was translated 100 percent correct and here is the verification they have hidden from you. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link My name Paul Gregersen to get there
Astonishing. My eyes are being open. So grateful for your time in doing your research and sharing. Many years ago I saw the 17 Miracles. It made me so angry that people follow the "authority" and suffered so much and death going across the plains in the winter. I couldn't understand why they couldn't use the brains that God has blessed us with.
So happy your eyes are being openned. Bless you on your journey.
I haven't been in the church since my late 20s in the late 90s. But I remember the church leadership always talking about "intellectual pride" to church members. Intellectual pride meant questioning anything you are told, using critical thinking skills and examining evidence--thinking you might know better than anyone "called of God."
Qué líderes?
As someone who was born in the covenant in 1980, I'm very frustrated to hear how my personal church experience was shaped this way on purpose! It shouldn't come as much of a shock that the truth coming out later is a breeding ground for massive outrage for those of us who would have believed in it all anyway, regardless of what it was. To be openly lied to is an automatic shelf-breaker for many. AKA the prophet was allowed to lead us astray. Many prophets have been allowed to do so, and were allowed to live.
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Your prophet was an idiot
These principles espoused by Packer in my mind explain how and why church members can and do justify their criminal personal and business dealings..
So why do they have restricted archives in the first place? I'm bothered as to why this religion keeps so many secrets... Not just about history. Also financial information, rituals, etc.. Seems a bit cult-like.
Considering they said they’re being “transparent” 🙄. Or at least “as best as they know how” 😳. Lol 😂 Aloha 🌺
Because it IS a CULT.
@@vivianboxer6045 Yes, I'm afraid I have to admit that my family on both sides were duped int joining what can only be described as a cult. I can't blame them, information was hard to come by when in the 19th century.
As an exmo… the reason they’re so successful is because they’ve instilled fear in its members… leaving this church is the worst sin of them all… it’s “apostasy”
That's because it is a cult.
What’s interesting to note is that this speech happened around the time of the Salamander Letter. It’s the paranoia and wish to suppress information that led to that tragedy
That was a great presentation. Thanks for the low down.
Excellent episode, RFM!!
40:40
The truth will set you free = yes
The truth will destroy your faith = also yes
@J P: and first, it'll piss you off :)
Yes! It’ll Piss you off! But luckily you’ll eventually get past that.
FYI, as late as 2012, Snow's couplet is mentioned in, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church, Lorenzo Snow, Chater 5, The Grand Destiny of the Faithful, Page 83.
For Hinckley to not know if the doctrine was being taught, HINCKLEY WAS LIEING!
Something tells me FAIR won't touch this essay with a 10 foot pole. Well done RFM.
Fair is not Fair.
Lying to me is for my own good it seems…sad…I wanted so much as a young teen to get my religion right with God to plan my future life and family…I rejected the horrifically complicated Catholic Church with all its bloody history and hidden gold and treasures, non accessible documents hidden from the world…the sexual coverups…I was a sitting duck for the “restored“ Cinderella story…paying 10% of my very tangible “ increase” for non-tangible fairytales…good grief…I so needed it to all be true but I have to admit..I loved all about my church…if only Smith could be erased…. Never ever liked anything about that character…not even his face … thank you Bill Reel and RFM and others like you… 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
I really liked the information and agency part you mentioned at 44:01, as a non-Mormon I never heard of Satan's actions when looking at this religion as an outsider but it really reminded me that I had no sex ed from family or the Catholic high school I went to and had to learn that on my own after I left, I was also fed all sorts of propaganda and misinformation when it comes to abortion and birth control and even though I'm a guy all of that had an effect on my agency for years.
Perhaps that was one of the reasons why I was so resentful towards my former church for almost two years after I left, main reason being that I really felt I was lied to for years and my repression ultimately was for nothing now that I look back at it (I like to think that more recently I've made peace with my past however). Even though I don't have a horse on this race I still like to listen to this podcast so thank you for posting this archive.
All our lives we have slaved and paid money to be kept in the dark. It’s dispicable.
RFM you make it all so clear! I left the church and my “covenants” many years ago and have finally become authentic! I knew Leonard Arrington and had permission to access the church archives. I could not make xerox copies and could only take hand written notes. Did you know a whole chapter of the D&C dealing with JS polygamy was removed? I think it was D&C 130. They just changed the numbering.
It is amazing that he felt comfortable and secure enough to actually give this message. God is not supposed to be a purveyor of 1/2 truths. I guess we should be happy that those documents which are now restricted haven't already been destroyed.
Excellent RFM! Way back in the day Leonard Arrington used to be our neighbor when he was at Utah State nice man! My parents thought a lot of him. I remember when the Arringtons moved to take a church position I think it was while I was still living at home when I was young a very long time ago since I’m in my mid 70’s now. Enjoy your shows very much! Keep it up!
Mind blowing! Shocking!
Excellent presentation!!! Thank you RFM.
could you do a video about what the church believes now? everything that was supposed to be a lie is now truth so what exactly do they believe? only thing i can see that hasnt changed in some way is tithing?any way i am so curious and would appreciate your insight.
I'd like to know too
even tithing has changed!
Wow this is amazing! Such a good deconstruction of that talk, it just shows how phrasing things in a certain way can be so deceptive. That talk is super hypocritical and against the teachings of Jesus which they say they follow.
I joined the church as a teen 60 yrs ago.
My vigor of testimony was never framed on the CHURCH, OR ITS LEADERS... BUT RATHER ON THE RESTORED GOSPEL JOSEPH BROUGHT FORTH.
I do recognise and enjoy your podcasts, although I prefer those with visual components.
I left the church to fen for itself abt 4 yrs ago and by finding the gospel of repentance, my life has been enriched and blessed.
Now I find my retirement has allowed me much time for study, prayer and pondering. I spend less time finding fault ("judge not that ye be not judged") and more time trying to share my testimony of repentance. The brethren have not and will not preach REPENTANCE... as God has given them as their mission. We, who are awake know they are not "prophets, seers, and revelators" nor are they shepherd's or servants to us. They leads down "satans, lack of freedom paths" by making alliances with satan's chorts including governments.
Isaiah states the brethren are drunken, all their tables are full of vomit, their feet are set against the edge of hell.
I care abt them, but they have lost my respect. Isaiah states clearly God has lost His opportunity to bless our nations because we have not become converted Ephriamites, we remain Gentiles. I count myself with the same Gentile approach to life, but I'm striving to please and better serve God, striving to develop charity... 2 Peter 1:1-20...
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Amen
Excuse me I'm a member of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints and I don't understand your own comment about my religion ☯️! Bye bye 👋👋.
Please continue to prayerfully research. May God bless you with deep understanding in Jesus holy name. I love the LDS people. ❤️🔥🙏
Amen. Praise Jesus the Christ. May we follow Him.❤️🔥🙏
I love your work!
I got permission from Leonard Arrington to do the initial research for the book: Emma Smith an elect lady. It was the first and last time that was allowed. I spent months in the church archives. I was allowed to take notes; but could NOT make copies of anything!
I'm very interested RFM, if you have any introspection on what caused both you and your brother to join two separate "high demand religions" in your early adulthoods? Or is that too personal a question? I don't think it was addressed in your episode on Mormon Stories, but maybe i just missed that part.
How can anyone argue, at this point, that it's not a cult? "Don't listen to anyone but us. Everyone else is lying. Here's what we want you to know. Now give us ten percent of you earnings or you're going to hell." Glad I got out. Thank you RFM.
R B I can tell you how... It is still the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints... We all go to our Father in Heaven and His Son, and read their words.. There is always ample confirmation of their Truth through the Holy Ghost.. Did you ever do that???
Did the Holy Ghost testify to you that the Church is Not True???
No one has to pay tithing either...Go ahead, go against what it says in Genesis... No one is going to hell for not paying tithing..
All of this is just people bashing... Nothing more...
Is Anyone on this earth perfect???? Are you, R B???
It is ironic that the cult you call the Church is exactly what you and all these other people have fallen into... Your own bash the people of the Church cult...
See how it goes for you when it's time to stand before Him and He asks you what did you do with your life down, there, R B????
What are you going to say you did???
Good luck with that..
@@frandanco6289 Stop bringing that argument that the holy spirit would testify or let you know when something is true. You can't rely on the way you feel to know if something is true or not. All the warm and fuzzy feelings we have and think is the spirit is not, also if the spirit would really let you know when something is real how is that other people from other religions say they also asked God and he let them know that the church they are is the true one. How.is God telling the same to all diferent religions. Seriously facts and evidence is the only way to know is something is true. I have felt the same emotions I had in the church when I watch a movie about a fictional character.
I am a never mormon but was exposed to all of this thru my grandma’s church and church camp and the ravings of my insane father who really admired joesmithjr and the parts about young girls especially…DisGusTing
This is what took me out. I “knew” the church was true. I was always fascinated in history and archaeology and so i chose that as my major in college. I was excited to “prove” the church true by what i learned through archaeology and history. I distinctly remember once semester taking Book of Mormon in institute one period and Meso-American Anthropology the next hour. I would actively try to relate the two days lessons. Long story short, it was my attempt to specialize in scriptural truth archaeology that made me realize it was all false. Not just the Mormon beliefs but Christianity as a whole. The more you know!
Bible told half true and lie about real Jesus and his life
Rough Stone, If you haven't already found him, you may enjoy Expedition Bible youtube channel, Joel Kramer
@@inChristalone1960 OMG are you calling me a ‘Rough Stone”? Did you know my business’ name was Rough Stone Rolling Lapidary or was that just by coincidence?
I didn't know . Ha, l borrowed it from your youtube handle. Great name. 😄
Some church members when given an opportunity to steal the wealth of an elderly man or woman believe this poor sole was made available to them by God because of the faith and obedience. A REWARD!
Extremely hard to get through these podcasts with SO many ads!!!
Try TH-cam Red
Nothing irritates me quite like when I see references to 'so-called scholars or intellectuals'. After all, if there was EVER a title that deserves the 'so-called' prefix, it has to be 'Prophet, Seer and Revelator'.
When I taught the 16 year olds in SS, I thought it would be great to give them a list of JS’s prophecies. Couldn’t do it. Even his civil war so-called prophecy was retrofitted. Right up to now - the title “prophet” is meaningless. Seer? Revelator? Nope.
They can see their way to buy a ranch in Washington ($209m) and a Marriott hotel in Hawaii ($149m) just last week. A nice hardback copy of the BofM is provided in every room which I imagine makes Jesus proud. Meanwhile you can run downstairs to the bar for a Mortini or to Starbucks for a grande Latte de Saints.
@@DancingQueenie Actually I have done some major research on this and this is what I discovered. When Oliver Cowdry attempts to translate the Book of Mormon he tells Joseph he can't see anything. Joseph responded as if coming from God and said " you thought I would just give it to you when you took no thought to study it out on your mind and in your heart.
Knowledge + Understanding = Revelation
We are the only creatures on this planet that have the ability to learn new information and with that knowledge come up with new innovative ideas. We are so use to coming up with new ideas that we don't really think about where these ideas come from and even scientists today can't figure it out.
What happened when someone comes up with ideas without any knowledge? Well that is what we call a guess and sometimes it's an educated guess and then there is another one I call intuitive guess and that's because some people have sensitive intuition.
1) Guess
2) Educated Guess
3) Intuitive Guess
4) Revelation
A lot of the inventions that happen today come from revelation. The way you decide to raise your children can be revelation because you know and understand what motivates your child, but sometimes it is an intuitive guess.
A seer is someone that can see into the future. For example if you decided you wanted to become a school teacher and you start college, when someone comes up to you and says what are you going to do after college, then you would respond "I'm going to be a teacher" this my friend is a seer. If you see a car heading directly at you and you swerve to miss the car then action you made was because you foresaw the event before it happened and stopped it from happening.
A Prophet is literally someone that professess the teachings of Jesus Christ. So if you teach a child not to steal, or to show love to one another then you are acting as a teacher of truth or in other words a "Prophet" and if you teach something that is not true and treat it as truth then that would be a false teaching or in other words a "False Prophet"
What does this all mean? It actually means just the opposite of what you stated that they are not prophets, seers, and revelators, but actually ALL Mankind are Prophets, Seers, and Revelators and we do this based on our knowledge and understanding.
We can see throughout history how our knowledge and understanding has evolved in order for us to become better people. This also means that the leaders in the church are just as much prophet, seer, and revelators as we are.
For example leaders in the church use to say that it is an abomination to have a mixed marriage. Where they wrong? Well of course it was but according to peoples knowledge and understanding back then it was not wrong. There were actually a lot of members objected to the church allowing blacks to have the priesthood.
Today the church still take the stand against the LGBQ community, but as we gain more knowledge and understanding about the LGBQ community and people become more comfortable with it, then policy changes happen and sometimes it is even shocking.
This doesn't just happen in the Mormon church but all churches are effected.
@@danite1742
Ok then. You’ve done the research so you can give me a list of JS’s top ten prophecies i.e. announcements of future events that actually came about.
Learning more about LGBT then making policy changes isn’t exactly leadership much less prophesy.
Taking a survey of members’ attitudes about the temple ceremony then CHANGING the ceremony isn’t prophecy.
Bending to the will of the US government, changing the policy and denouncing the “new and everlasting covenant” isn’t prophecy. (Not exactly new and certainly not everlasting.)
JS secretly “marrying” 30+ women (some of them living in the same house with his wife) and LYING TO HIS WIFE AND STANDING BEFORE THE CHURCH AND BLATANTLY AND REPEATEDLY LYING? That’s bold way of life for a “prophet” of god. He prophesied he’d be struck down by an angel with a flaming sword if specific women/girls refused to marry him but he had no fear of said angel when he LIED to cover his evil tracks.
Spending billions of dollars to bulldoze small businesses and build a mall?
Denouncing the nickname Mormon?
Thousands of baseball baptisms that resulted in the “leadership” forming stakes and building meeting houses that nobody ever attended?
Paying Mark Hoffmann hundreds of thousands of dollars for fake documents?
Covid? RMN didn’t call in the missionaries or advise the world to prepare. He was obviously stunned by the whole thing. Best he could do was call for a “worldwide” fast. Oops. Didn’t work. Try again. Dang it.
Let’s have that list of JS’s prophecies of future events that would warn and prepare the people. Or any of the latter day so-called prophets, seers and revelators’ prophecies for that matter.
@@danite1742
BTW, from the condescending tone and examples you give in your reply, I think you might’ve misread my comment. I’m not a 16 year old hoping to be convinced that JS was a prophet, seer and revelator.
I don’t need to hear that “people back then” thought mixed marriages were wrong. Gimme a break. There were two mixed race couples in my ward at the time the church finally bent to outraged public opinion, including protests at BYU basketball games - and they were building a temple in Brazil and realized few Brazilians would be eligible to attend much less officiate. It was a clearly racist policy and the “leaders” didn’t care until it became expedient.
I taught the 15/16 year olds for 10 years and one reason they liked me was because I didn’t approach them with that patronizing tone. Several young people mentioned in their missionary farewell talks they appreciated that I spoke to them like they were intelligent adults and lead them to think and discuss.
@@DancingQueenie It's like you just want to vent and through all this stuff out there because your mad at something. What's up with that? You must not have read my whole post. What I said is that we are just as much Prophets, Seers, and Revelators as the leaders in the church.
I also explained that we are evolving as a society as we gain more knowledge and understanding.
Great breakdown!!!
RFM thanks for calling it like it is!!
This is a train wreck that I just can't stop watching. It's a great podcast/channel.
LOL Me, too. As a never-Mo, it appeals to the part of me that watches true crime content. I enjoy the well-crafted denouements.
Did Boyd packer actually say to “suppress” information or was that your contribution to the quote?
Boyd Packer didnt say suppress information, he implied it. This is gaslighting. NO it wasn't the contribution of the commenter. Packer and other leaders have frightened you so much that it's hard for you to hear the truth.
"Prove ALL things , hold fast to that which is good." Thessalonians.
It took me several years to find the courage to read anything about the LDS church. When l finally did, l learn they had been lying to me, but God is truly faithful.❤️🔥
"Yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets and by all the seers..."
2 Kings 17:13
University of Utah has A LOT of church history they keep hidden from the public! One of my cousins was working on a project for the University and she was allowed in this area that contains this info., she was shocked to say the least!
I wasn’t aware there is such a thing as “advanced history”, and how this can cause injury to the church and destroy faith. I’m waiting for the part when he says “ you can trust me I’m honest”. 😂
As I'm listening to this and hearing all the references to these books I'm pausing and ordering them off eBay and Amazon as fast as I can!!!
Well? How did it go? I'm curious regarding your reading
@@robriley6804 I got sidetracked and ordered the first 10 of 15 books that David Eddings wrote back in the 80's.. much more interesting
Thank you for the truth!! They are very deceptive, they never speak the truth from the pulpit, missionaries do not share the truth.
I was a missionary between 2016 to 2018 and I never heard about those stuffs, never related to treasure digging, seer Stones, poliandry or leaders hidden the truth.
My apologies for mistakes, I'm still learning English
I am “inactive” (what we used to call A Jack Mormon) a member from 1980 to 1991, and heard all of this in context and met Boyd K Packer in the Eighties and heard him speak at Youth Conferences. I can verify this post is on point. Thanks!
Re transparency [around 0:46] "There's still room for improvement"
...??...
Given that Mormonism’s entire history, from the very outset, treds deeply in falsehoods, THAT right THERE is an UNDERstatement!!
I have a ?. Was the First Vision true? Did a man named Moroni exist? I wonder when people leave the " Church" do they leave what they once believed?
Was the first vision true? My initial question would be to which of JS’s first vision stories are you referring, since he wrote several and told several others, all of which were long after the described event. Since the official version is also the last version, after undergoing many iterations and changes, it is unlikely to be a true telling. Since the earlier versions don’t match current church doctrine, they are unlikely to be an accepted telling. After studying the versions and background, and speaking only my own belief, the answer to your question is: No, the first vision did not happen, it was fabricated.
@@kylestringham121 I have a hard time believing Joeseph and Hyrum would die for something that was a lie. They didn't gain riches for fabrication of their stories. It was just the opposite. In my own personal experience of being so close to death and being asked a ? about the truth of something I certainly told the truth. Fear has a way of doing that to a person.
@Randy L. Actually, I don’t think they died for the first vision fabrications. By the end, they were playing fast and loose in a lot of areas and making enemies fast. Their polygamy knew no bounds, destruction of the expositor and printing press, etc. They made up their own rules and trampled anyone who got in their way. They got so deep in their own stories that they lost control of the situation, and in the end paid a price. I once had belief as you do now, and I’m glad it works for you. But for me, the mountain of evidence against JS finally stripped me of that belief.
@@kylestringham121 I understand how all the things that are surfacing today with IoT can make one lose faith. It happened to my own son. He is atheist. As for me I just can't believe it all started with a big bang. If I ever believe that I would seek revenge on those people that hurt me and sought to take my life. Survival of the fittest?? There must be a higher law than that!. It can't be government because they are worse than the laws of nature. As for as religion goes I was raised Catholic and knew from an early age that wasn't the truth and every thing else broke off from there. I never was interested in religion from the start. So who knows my friend? Maybe your right but I HOPE not. Take care and ✌.
@@ranjanty JS was a scryer, a con man from teen yrs on. The best cons are the ones that are so fantastically out of possibly true that you then believe it is too fantastic to be made up, thus begins the con. In Kirtland, create an illegal bank, print your own money when you run out of other people's money. Preach the adversary is after us so we need to move. In Nauvoo "run for US Pres", name yourself King, have your goons burn the newspaper about to expose your 33 wives, their ages, their husbands, etc. JS was probably a sociopathic liar. He was so good at it. Then a power crazed, racist, giant of a man ceases control becomes "prophet" by foul means and becomes governor, had his own 3 favorite goons to enforce & eliminate opposition. The rest is all just a cover-up after the 1922 Secret Mormon Meetings (MS episode 1346) where all the truths were discussed and the Q15 decided on the deep vault to hold all secrets from the faithful. That is until Brodie, Quinn, Tanner, Roberts, Arrington, Vogel, Dehlin, Ritner, Decker, Palmer, Larsen, Runnells, Reel, RFM, Streeter, Young, Miller, and THE INTERNET.
Could I get someone to define what "Faith Promoting" means?? asking for a friend
Means keeping your Mormon gear belt on, tow the line, keep the status quo, and don't back talk the suits in Utah.
Where was I ...
"Faith Promoting" means no facts needed, I just beellliiiieeevvveee, and I experience Elevation Emotion so much so that you will continue to pay tithing, teach untruths, remain silent, just to reinforce your Sunken Cost Fallacy that this is the one and only true church.
And all those critical thinkers (former Bishops, RS Pres, Prim, YMYW ldrs, Seminary, Institute, Gospel Doctrine teachers who studied their brains out to be the best teacher for eager students) that discovered the Corporation of the First Presc'y has been concealing the truth and lying to the members about actual church history are being deceived by Satan so stay away, shun them, for they must be secret sinners if they found the Truth claims of the church are Lies just like the brethren did at the Secret 1922 Mtgs and every subsequent Q15er.
With its billions $$$$ why doesn’t the Church pay its Seminary teachers and gospel doctrine teachers a teachers salary.(eps. Full time high school seminary teachers)This is an honest question.
Because they are all pure Republicans!!! LMAO
@@timhansen234 Now at age 65, I have changed my religion and political affiliation. FREE AND DEMOCRATIC!
Liberals, democrats and Mormons are all fucking worthless
@@timhansen234 I didn’t know that republicans don’t pay their employees.
@@patricianoel7782 Do you have the blue hair now and are you excited about late term abortion also?
Elder Packer's analogy, comparing church historians to lawyers working for a corporation could be also framed as lawyers in a criminal trial. I believe prosecutors are legally (and Morally) obliged to share evidence with the defense attorneys. Are defense attorneys also required to share evidence with prosecutors? In that framework, would what Elder Packer suggests be illegal? Or at least cause for a mistrial?
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Great video RFM!
Fun irony: I saw a commercial right after the mention of “so called” and it had the same syntax. Who wants to guess the organization?
PragerFU (go Devils!)
Also, Watch Mr. Deity.
Yeah... its a war alright.
42:41 Lying is violence.
Because violence is the thing that takes away or overrides human choice (agency).
Mind blowing and very frightening!
I can’t find a word bad enough to describe all this deception and spiritual abuse. It’s been the same since the beginning of this church. Whatever goes uncorrected and unrepentant of flows on and on, to paraphrase CS Lewis.
So, Janice Graham, as terrible as you describe the Church, since the beginning mind you, did You ever get on your knees and pray for Confirmation of the Truth??? Ever???? What was the answer???
Did you ever do what our Savior did all His life and Serve others??? Did you not ever feel the Spirit testifying of the truth??? Comforting you???
@@frandanco6289 I have spent much time on my knees. I rec'd the same confirmation as when I found out salted caramel, dark chocolate covered toasted pecans were the one true dessert. Well until, I discovered gooey caramel popcorn.
Mm hmm 🧐💭😳😟😫🤔♾️!
Damn your good! Thank you RFM.
Joseph Smith, quoting John the Revelator, indicated this gift is so important that( every “man who has the testimony of Jesus,” is a prophet, “)(for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. -Revelation 19:l0th )verse” (TPJS, p. 119)
In ancient times it was thought that only a few people could be prophets. In fact, they often declared that they wanted only a certain person to be a prophet for all the people. Joseph Smith said this was a wrong concept and declared:
. . . the people should (each one stand for himself, )(and depend on no man or men)( in that state of corruption) of the Jewish church-that (righteous persons could only deliver their own souls)(-applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-)said if the people departed from the Lord, (they must fall-that they were depending on the Prophet)(, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves), . . . (TPJS, pp. 237-238)
And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. And [91] Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (Num. 11:25-29)
Fabulous presentation 😁
Half truths are often more deceptive than total lies. The Mormon Church is not becoming more truthful as much as it is becoming Moore cleverly deceptive
i am the way, THE TRUTH and the life. if Jesus is the truth shouldnt the truth be the objective?
Oh, your eyes were not yet open. What that verse actually said was: "I am the way, the faith-building-only-truth-and-if-you-share-all-the-truth-I'll-damn-your-soul-to-apostasy-land, and the life." :)
Satan wants to tell the truth to put a bad light on something or someone , but ultimately Satan is the master of lies and he will lie on top of any truth .
@rharvey9342 Do you remember the exact day that you voluntarily surrendered you ability to think in a cognitive, rational manner?
The most tragic aspect of cults is the internal, self-imposed treadmill effort. Exhausting. Pathetic. Wasteful. Life is sufficiently challenging, without supporting vain egocentric, extravagant nonsense. If God is cruel, all churches are legit.
43:13 About that buying a used car analogy, you've got to agree that you don't need to know who had sex in the back seat before buying it. Right? Am I right? It shouldn't affect the quality of the car or how you feel about the car. The salesmen doesn't need to disclose that. The church is the used car... a very used car... that a whole lot of people up and down the ecclesiastical food chain have been getting it on in the back seat. But the car will still get you to work and back home every day.
The thing with analogies is the church is the grand master of using them and it's getting to a point where they've run out of original content and are now recycling and mixing it to come up with the weirdest shit out there... like linking penguins and tragic car crashes??!!! say what?
Whether or not someone had sex in the back seat of a used car is not the issue. That would not affect how the car operated. The issue is that the car did not operate properly and the salesman did not disclose that information.
@@deskjockie4948 EXACTLY!
unless the back seat is filled with 14 yr olds, other men's wives, multiple concurrent wives of the previous owner.
No. The used car analogy would be more like, was there flood damage to the car, and not disclosed? Folks have a right to know the true history of a car’s mechanical issues, AND the church’s history.
The truth will set us free…that is the first and last covenant to God and myself…it does not have to be that complicated…
38:30 😂 Church Lady reference. Gotta love RFM.
Going back now to 001❤
Answer your phone, RFM!!!! j/k Thanks for the great video and keep up the good work. 🤘
There are millions of very happy latterday saints because we love Jesus Christ He told us in the bible that people will say all kinds of evil against us but not to worry because they did it to Him also it is a sign we have the truth also it has caused people to search for the truth and join the Church
Packard has some good stuff
So grateful to be a member of this faith. It gives me such strength to see videos like these.
Why because only one outcome? What they told you? You trust them?
LOL
"And Joseph said unto them, What deed is this that ye have done? Wot ye not that such a man as I can certainly divine?"
"And put my cup, the silver cup..."
"Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth?"
Genesis chapter 44
Are you implying that because men in the Bible lied, that it is okay and acceptable for men who claim to be prophets today to lie? Tell me again who is the father of lies?
@@deskjockie4948 You're a looney!
@@zon3665
Name calling is not an answer. You have the opportunity to make your point.
@@DancingQueenie Sorry. It came across looney. He was quoting the Bible to condemn the Bible. Fallacious logic. It was a knee jerk response.
@@zon3665 Read my comment again. I did not condemn the Bible. I used the Bible to make a point, which was, that the Bible tells of men who lie, then I asked if that justifies supposed "men of God" today in lying. Your "knee jerk response" shows that you are not thinking logically.
I appreciate the
"Advanced history"? Did Packer mean "real history"?
BKP completely earned this truthful dissection you present. The guy was clearly evil. But on Hinckley and King Follet Discourse, modern Mormons are under no obligation to believe such uncanonized works, so I have to side with Hinckley on that one. I'm mystified that both Mormon critics and believers continue to cite the King Follet Discourse as some kind of present Mormon creed. At best it’s Mormon apocrypha, and Hinckley answered honestly.
Please take a deep prayerful reconcideration of all the prophecies of Joseph Smith. One cannot cherry pick his prophecies from the pulpit , lol, dismiss them as him speaking as a man when he was clearly
serious. The Biblical standard is ALL prophecy must come true! Hinkley said The LDS follow another Jesus ( paraphased). How is this not IDOLATRY!? the Temple endowment reflects that belief, as well as a dismissal of the Biblical Father God. Smh. 💔 Blasphemy.
The LDS have been taught by example that they have the authority to play fast and loose with scripture and prophecy. Joseph Smith was an occultist , Freemason who had demonic influences.
Please continue to prayerfully research. Respects.
ROFL I can’t stop chuckling and I love your brain. Yes, he is a leader of the modern day gadiantons. It started with Brigham Young and his polygamous brotherhood. D&C 101. Please research that era. Your take on it would be magnificent.
Genius Observations
It is obvious that The Lord abundantly pardons. I am not so concerned with my state of things anymore.
"....To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."
Revelation 2:17
By observing it in a hat…🎩
"Why does god need a starship?"
Captain James T Kirk
@R B: a quote I try always to keep on hand :)
My act of disobedience on my LDS Mission was to give that liar a hug. What a joke.
You don't have to give any liars any hugs 🤗🙏☮️🕊️🕉️🏳️👍😊 if you don't want to!
How any intelligent person would stay in this cult is beyond me
Unfortunately, they are brainwashed. I have many true-believing family members still. It's painful to watch
@@Bugiddle how arrogant of you.
@@LatterDayPup well, the truth is painful. Sorry.
"And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim."
Leviticus 8:8
Yes they are not glasses nor were they worn by a priest on their eyes
@@Sirach144 The breast plate holds them in place.
I've listened to this a few times now and have to say that I think it's your best.
Packer's war/corporation analogy fails because it's only human organizations that utilize principles to achieve some sort of utility. i,e. they judge the righteousness of the principles by they effect they have on achieving the org's goals (usually profit or self-perpetuity etc). God's organization, if there were one, would be the complete opposite--the principles become the goal despite whatever utility (or lack thereof) results from adherence to those principles.
Love RFM….what needs to be done to have less ads? 20 ads in an hour. Every three minutes.
Install an adblocker or pay TH-cam $13 a month.
Wow. I believe that the church is true, but I hate the way the leadership lies, conspires, covers up, and abuses office.
I though Satan was the great deceiver.
Lucifer is trickster gets yeah put on green apron represents his power And his priesthood
Pay attention to Elder Ballard’s daughter in law Congresswoman Melissa Ballard. Perhaps she has aspirations of running for Utah senate and wants her father in laws endorsement.
BKP's treatment of Leonard Arrington was shameful.
Telling everything to feeble minds is more harmful than useful . I used to think like you ,but now I know that you tell a person the truth if they are ready to understand
Gordie Hinkley… “ I don’t know” …. how comforting from the Profit of the Lord… NOT. 😬
He was probably right
Satan is objective, scholarly, impartial, neutral, and truthful
Satan is as real as the easter bunny.
@@function0077 I'm hesitant to Conclude that YOUVE NEVER MET SATAN I take it?
@@joehinojosa24 As far as I know, I have never met Satan.
@@function0077 Well,when you do around 3 AM, You'll REMEMBER IT.
@@joehinojosa24 People often dream (or less frequently, hallucinate) at night. Dreams and hallucinations of Satan are not evidence that Satan exists. I do not claim that Satan exists. Others that claim Satan exists have not substantiated their claims. This is why I dismiss their claims. This is the same reason why I also dismiss claims about the existence of the Loch Ness Monster or Santa Claus. EDIT: Also, are your comments sincere or sarcastic? I can't tell.
The problem with a lot of anti-Mormon material is that is does lie. And so the lies discredit all the content that is true (a logical fallacy but it’s sufficient for many minds to dismiss the content). If they would stick with facts and stop going after assumptions or insane theories, I think they would make a lot more progress.
John Dehlin is a great example of someone who lied about his excommunication, and the released letter proved he was being misleading and had to invent what he felt the excommunication was really about. Which made it debatable instead of a solid argument.
This has been the case with books for a hundred years.
Indeed, I’m joyously out the LDS church. I can objectively say the anti Mormon crowd did hurt their own cause. The book The God Makers, yes there is a book to go along with the comical cartoon, was particularly egregious in the falsehood to truthful assertions ratio lol. Kingdom of the Cults by Walt Martin is far better at sticking to the facts. Anti Mormon literature was a cottage industry in the “ Christian “ world. Another goofy group. The trip to the Christian bookstore was fun back in the 80s, they typically featured entire racks of anti lit for me to “ debunk” lol. Good times NOT! By the way I think J Dehlin might be the most self absorbed person in Utah.
What about the Gospel Topics Essays? All that information covered in those essays… were in the past… considered antiMormon literature… by the CHURCH. NOW THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT IT AS IF THEY’VE ALWAYS SAID IT WAS A PART OF ITS HISTORY.
Read universal model, shows scientifically that yes scripture is right, secular theories of geology biology etc are wrong. Also arringtons problem was insisting on using the testimony of scoundrels and liars like Hurlbut as his main source.
God was less than "accurate" with Adam and Eve, while the serpent was actually truthful, regardless of his intentions. God's decision to hide things from them is what led to the original sin, something God should have known about it. Humanity was doomed to fail from the very beginning by its creator through deception. I am not surprised that the clergy of any religion do the same and call it righteous.
So, you Alexandro Rocca, have absolute confirmation from the same Holy Ghost that I have confirmation from, that God was less than accurate????? wow...
3 afs in the first 7 min....a little much
well heck, if the JWs could figure it out--- everyone should be able to but it IS the pot calling the kettle black.