Fantastic. I really liked the format and the message. I am glad I took the decision to leave after 23 years. I am today a firm believer of Christ and the Bible. I hope many more people will come to the understanding and leave this cult.
It seems that a lawyer gets selected as church historian for a good reason. Lawyers are good at advocating particular points of view. That's not what histoians are supposed to do.
I was completely disenchanted with McKay's tears (or just choked up voice) at the end. Even if he believes everything he's saying and even if he does admire Jane Manning James for the reasons he stated, his tone just came off as phony or at least unfeeling to her plight.
Wow! I just listened to this podcast. RFM, you absolutely nailed the slimy pontificator to the wall. He may or may not be a nice guy, but that’s irrelevant. He’s trying to fortify a failing church by browbeating manipulating and deceiving Ernest people. Thank you for your work RFM!
McKay is talking about the Spirit like its feeling is something that is actually defined in scripture. It is not defined anywhere in the BOM. The only place church lessons turn to to define the spirit, outside of the words of Joseph Smith is D&C sections 6, 8, and 9, which is a one-off to Oliver Cowdery. It's super vague ("remember that night I spoke peace to your heart?") This vagueness is the sweet spot of the church, and is why no one actually can define what the "spirit" feels like. It's also why everyone seems to get different answers to the same questions.
You've got to do a response video for every one of Kyle's speeches RFM! How good does it feel to know you're now proclaiming the truth!?! I still feel guilt every time I see an investigator's face in my mind from the mission. :(
@@Themanyfacesofego I escorted one through the temple even...makes me sick thinking the "church" had me out there lying my ass off for two years to anyone who would listen.
Don't feel too guilty for recruiting for the cult when you didn't know better. You had not yet been enticed any other way, so you didn't have agency at that point. Logic is prevailing, the church's growth is screeching to a halt, and most of our converts are capable of finding their own way out of the church just like we had to.
Facts should Matter Right, Have just 1 Member of Pagan organization started by a Nut in 1830 name Joseph Smith to Show you the scripture about Joseph Smith restoring the gospel book and Verse in the Bible
It's odd that RFM failed to mention the fact that Jane Manning James was (on May 18, 1894) sealed to Joseph Smith as an eternal slave, "to be obedient to him in all things in the Lord as a faithful Servitor." This is the "amazing blessing" she gets for faithfully enduring a lifetime of mistreatment by church leaders. I understand why Krocodile Kryin' Kyle would omit that fact but weird RFM didn't call it out.
@@jessicathurston6494 Now you know. It's sickening. And Kryin' Kyle is sick for using her as an example of receiving a reward for being obedient to your oppressors.
@@KidFreshie BIBLE is the only book which: heals, guides, judge, warns, helps. Bible guides souls out from Babylon. Bible helps to let go from Babylonian entertainments. Bible helps us see, what has value. Bible fills souls with knowledge, with peace. Bible clears out future, for both, for the saved and for the lost. Bible gives us stories from which to learn, and through which GOD warns us, the generations lived after. Don+t stay muslim, catholic, Hindu, new ager, atheists, ignorant, satanic, Mormons, dont be a thief and a robber. John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. Religions are masonic lies, false ways into heaven which masons have made. Follow not nor believe masons, who give you lies after lies. Seek out CHRIST, follow HIM and leave lies behind and your old life in the BABYLON: Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
When it comes to fallible leaders in the church, I recently asked my brother, "Is God so impotent that He cannot give correction to His anointed servants?" While I didn't bring up this next point with my brother, I know all too well what it's like to try and point out how the current leaders have made mistakes. It's only after they are dead (and even then it might have to be for a decade or two) that it can tacitly be admitted they made any mistakes.
When they’re dead, if their “mistake” was supposedly using the wrong word “Mormon” it’s ok for the reigning “prophet” to declare at gen con that Pres Monson made a grave mistake by his use of the word. Fear not though, the reigning prophet has courageously defied satan’s influence, essentially banning said evil word. Well at least monson didn’t marry kids so there’s that 🤔
Wow! Kyle's "tone" screams reams, in menacing, shaming, threat. I'd hate to be his kid! I made a promise to myself that I would never seek God out of fear. This man's message does nothing for me. He reminds me of the person who has no confidence in his ability to get across his message and then resorts to using big guns to scare his target into submission. His message has nothing to do with what we have been taught about Christ's love or living a Christ-like life. I suspect that what he gives out, is a mirror of what he experiences within. That must be hell.
Simply brilliant! Love your logical, down-to-earth, common-sense approach, RFM! You uncovered so many fallacies in that talk!! This whole episode has been another great eye-opener!!
“as for Parley Pratt and Orson they sayed they ware truly convinced that the charges which were Layed to Br Joseph the season past ware actuly falts [false] and they was now fuly perwaided in there own minds that Joseph had done the Best that he could considering all things they confessed that there minds had ben darkened their hearts hardened and they had sayed many things against the prophet that they ought not to have sayed” … Eliza Ann Carter, ca. September 1837
@@joshharrison1160 I agree with you, Josh, RFM has a great sense of humor and his loud laughter is an absolute classic!!!! I could listen to him for hours!
45:30 This is the kind of double-speak that's so frustrating when discussing concepts like faith and doubt with members. "Doubt is BAD if it's regarding the LDS church" but "Doubt is GOOD if it's regarding compelling (and disproportionately insurmountable) evidence in opposition to the LDS church". It's such a slimy word game of shifting the goalposts and flipping the playing field.
So I wonder why Kyle as the church historian forgot to mention that Jane Manning actually did get to be sealed in the temple by proxy while she was alive. Sealed to Joseph Smith as an eternal servant / slave.
Hearing the credentials and power rankings read off in his introduction reminded me of how disappointed my dad sounded when I told him I was getting an office transfer and he immediately lit up and asked, “assistant to the president?” and then I replied “no, mission vehicle fleet coordinator”…..you could hear his neck pop as his head dropped on the other line…. LDS positions and ranking is the icing on your salvation…it’s almost like the Word of Wisdom, not revelation but certainly helps punch that ticket.
“Different term-SAME STRAWMAN!”. RFM-you have me cracking up with this dissection ! I wish there could also be a verbal emotional replay because he makes his voice quiver as if about to cry!!! over…absolutely nothing. It’s just a learned rhythmical cadence that draws emotion.,,
Thanks for untangling that word salad of spiritual lingo... The cringe, delivered in that Mormon style that glazes listeners eyes over... Kyle is definitely not 'compelling' - this talk Is embarrassing.
The funny thing is that everything Kyle says about choosing to believe is as applicable to Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy as it is to the LDS Church. I mean there are compelling reasons to doubt all of the aforementioned entities. But you CAN choose to believe anyway. And remember this: Jesus said "do not doubt". Actually, there is more reason to choose to believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. It keeps pressure on the parents to deliver better goodies. But choosing to believe in the LDS Church just means putting more pressure on yourself to give goodies to the leaders of the church.
Actually let me correct myself… I agree 100%. We all know there is no such thing as 110% Just like we all know that RFM is spot on here and Kyle is just spouting total BS. Great stuff by RFM!
I think that the reason that the Speaker, McKay, refers to Jane Manning James as a "minister" at 1:34:00 is because visiting teachers are now called "ministering sisters". He was just saying that she was a beloved visiting teacher using the new terminology. Ministering sisters don't have the priesthood, and somehow that's okay in mormonism.
The parable of the wheat and tares is becoming a status symbol within the church. Status and eternal rewards, all for the ridiculously low price of 10% (minimum). I find it interesting that all popular depictions of Gods show them as flawed, and vainglorious, and very jealous; the kind of being that would value the 1% unquestioning lemming's devotion over the devotion of a thinking, rational being.
In 46:07 the LDS historian quoted Jesus saying"doubt not" or in other words do not doubt mormonism because Jesus already have said that mormonism it's true😮🤔😏
die schlimmste, verabscheungswürdigste Rede….. seit langem!!! Fazit: nicht denken, nicht hinterfragen, nur gehorchen! i am shocked, he is talking to young students! he knows how to work with his voice
I agree, RFM, and great video! Absolutely one of the most controversial talks in LDS history in recent memory and how fitting that it took place in Idaho’s Mecca of Mormonism, Rexburg, Idaho.
We cannot choose what we believe. We believe that for which there is compelling evidence. Otherwise we could just believe any fantasy. We may choose to only expose ourselves to that which support a specific belief and ignore anything contrary. That happens all the time.
The question I have: How to use this logic based reason with TBM Family when they will only acknowledge what their authorities tell them? Makes it impossible to have a real relationship with family. Everything must be sanitized and superficial. It hurts.
Don't look for or expect answers. Don't expect to receive a whole testimony (strong confirming feelings) overnight. Just be happy to be on the testimony installment plan where you receive increments or portions over an indefinite period of time that eventually may add up to a whole testimony, so long as you continue to ignore and shove aside all of the compelling reasons to doubt. Very good advice. That's why I look forward to attending the next Fast & Increment meeting at church next month...because I want to bear my increment. It's not a whole testimony. But I think I got an increment or two. Like last week, someone blessed the refreshments at a church event. I was thinking that I hope that the blessing works because I don't want to get sick from the refreshments. Turns out the refreshments didn't make me sick...other than the usual blood sugar spike, followed by an insulin spike...followed by extreme drowsiness. But that's typical for donuts and super sweet fruit punch, so I felt real good about things when I woke up 5 hours later and that's my increment for this month.
I am an adult convert to the Church. Born 1952 & baptized 1977. I read the Book of Mormon before I was baptized and was shocked to find how many saints had not read the BoM from beginning to end. Personally ... I received a huge, great big testimony on the day I was baptized. Over time, I began to wonder why a similar experience had not happened to everyone in the Church.
@@TEAM__POSEID0N (\____/) ( o ' . ' o) ()( ......... ) PICHACHU . RE: 2 Nephi 1.15, This is a scripture that expresses my personal witness better than I could ever hope to: . But behold, The Lord hath redeemed my soul from hell; I have beheld his glory, And I am encircled about eternally In the arms of his love . You know... that kind of stuff. . peace. .
@@harryabelpotter9630 So, to sum up, your "testimony" consists of a "pichachu" drawing and the quoting of an incoherent bit of religious babble from the Book of Mormon. I was hoping for something more personal and specific, but not really expecting it. So, a passage from the Book of Mormon consisting of non-specific, undefined abstractions ("redeemed", "hell", "his glory", "encircled about eternally in the arms of his love") expresses your "personal witness" better than you can? Even though it's supposedly your PERSONAL witness? So we're back to Morris Albert: "Feelings...nothing more than feelings..."
@@harryabelpotter9630 Harry Potter, do you also have a "personal witness" concerning Gryffindor and Slytherin? Or just Pichachu and an eternal encirclement in the arms of his love?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this RFM. I cringed at all the logical fallacies and the targeted exploitation of Jane Manning James' story. His tone in the delivery is becoming more popular in the Church, hearkening back to apocalyptic tones of the late 60s and 70s. If we say things sternly enough, surely members will believe and the youth will follow our every instruction. It's unfortunate he didn't give us a detailed list of these compelling reasons to doubt and counter them with compelling reasons to believe, but it sounds like that would violate our agency, so...
Essentially, we are not to be skeptical or reasoning humans who look for evidence, but to base our beliefs and our lives on one or both of two things: 1. What we want to be true (desire). 2. What feels good. Umm, no, I'll pass on the spiritual heartburn, thank you.
Perhaps Kyle's point is that he will be crying tears of joy when equality is also extended to gay and trans people by the LDS church.. I'm being charitable(he, he, he.)
I love how we have talk after talk after talk these days about doubting doubts and staying in the boat. Obviously, people are both doubting and leaving since the full court press continues on. In the meantime, it is beyond pathetic to hear and watch these attempts to stem the tide or at least control the damage, because any person willing and able to utilize even a modicum of rationality will easily see through the charade. One after the other they march out to explain how reality itself not only can be, but must be, ignored. That verifiable fact must be rejected in favor of delusion so the church can have what it wants, butts in seats and checkbooks out.
Recently, the LDS branch of Mormonism has produced some mind boggling, awful talks "defending" the faith. These seem to be increasing in number, and just when you think they could not be equalled, or even exceeded in their awfulness, another one appears: Jacob Hess; Brad Wilcox; David Glen Hatch; Kyle McKay; All have given talks that are so awful they are actually compelling listening! It really makes you wonder what other horrors are in store for us.
I just have one question - if you ever go to lunch with Elder McKay in the greater SLC area, can I come? I promise I’ll sit quietly and pay for everyone’s lunch. 😂❤😂
You done did it now RFM 😂: RFM vs. KSM, Lawyer vs. Lawyer, Rigorously Logical vs. Logically Irreconcilable, Rules of Evidence vs. Evidence without Rules, Answers are the Solutions vs Solutions are not the Answer. I'll pick RFM any day of the week.
Here is the best reason to join the LDS church. The Bible has done a terrible job of uniting Christian's. We have over 3,000 denominations all fighting over who has got the right interpretation of the Bible as they compete for money, and not unity in Christ anymore. Yes, dividing Christian's more and more each day. Where the LDS church has successfully united millions of believers entirely under one church leadership, and it continuously holds millions of faithful followers together as one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. All under one leadership. And it actually works as one combined effort of preaching the gospel world wide, to every nation obeying Christ's great commission to prostolite when no other church can possibly get it together nor actually do what Christ commanded believers must be do. The LDS church does this even with all the half truths and lies constantly hammering it on line by hostile people who have made it their life's mission to destroy it. Seems to me that's a real good sign God is behind it, or Satan wouldn't be so worried about its success by going way out of his way to get people so mad and concerned about it. It's the only Christian church who knows how to hold a unity of faith together today without some apostate ex bishop running off with half the ward Believers and starting a new apostate church every year! This in spite of constant relentless attacks. These anti LDS critics are fighting a church of good honest American well educated citizens who greatly benefit society! They care nothing about fighting evil things that are truly dangerous like Alkeida or leftist religions where everything goes anti family destroying thousands of lives daily. Face it, we don't see LDS missionaries flying planes into buildings or relief society sisters robbing banks or seminary kids starting gangs and robbing old ladies. Satan sure knows how to get people focused on the ridiculous. Link UTube video titled( BOA ep 16 ) and see why this is.
@@johnrowley310 Maybe it's a lie that keeps people from joining. They get people so focused on something negative that they become blind to the overwhelming positives. I raised my kids in the church and they are all happily married and raise happy kids. The church had a huge influence on their lives keeping them out of drugs and bad relationships especially their missions which solidified their confidence in themselves. My friends who hated the church raised kids who easily fell into promiscuity and kids born out of wedlock which led to divorce and alcoholism. Some are in jail. I can't stress enough how it makes a huge difference in most kids lives. Some fall away but most today still live the good life. The only thing that will keep the church from positively effecting kids is a few parents who were too strict about the church and didn't know how to have fun with their kids and give them enough love. The church only works with people who love Christ not use the church as a threat. Otherwise there is nothing better especially if you go outside the church it's a societal constant downer.
@@paulgregersen3570 This is such a broad and faulty generalization. I have church active friends whose children have veered off the path such you described above. I also have nonmember friends who have raised well adjusted, happy and mentally healthy families without The church affiliation.
@@blckprsthd4791 Yes, I have friends who are not members who have great kids. I simply enjoy an LDS family where we worship God together with greater joy. A feeling of eternity that we all share when we all get together and often pray together and share spiritual experiences. Even the sad times where we often reflect on our long lost relatives who have died or by sharing the good times are priceless. Without the church we would not have the same eternal bonds. I simply love the gospel and Jesus Christ and no amount of negative propaganda can take that away. Once my daughter got into a terrible bike accident colliding head on with another bicycle both going at high speed. She was unconscious for hours with a black tumor on her brain in the x-ray. They had to immediately life flight her to another hospital where my son and I administered to her by the power of the priesthood. The doctor before the surgery needed a second x-ray. The doctor came back amazed and bewildered and said the injury to her brain was completely gone and she literally had no more pain and we took her home. My grandfather was on a mission in Denmark and baptized 17 people in one day. A bunch of Christian magicians were pretending they had the power of God and were gaining people as converts by raising tables and objects into the air. People were so amazed they were all joining their church. My grandfather saw that he was going to lose the people he was teaching was ammediately prompted to stand up on his feet in the audience whereby commanded the ministers by the power of the priesthood to stop their wicked deception. Suddenly their props and tables and objects would no longer function. The head minister became furious and shook his hand at my grandfather and cursed him. From that very audience the two people he was converting were joined by 15 others who were all baptized the next day. Many more things have happened that make my faith unshakeable. As for the CES letter and the book of Abraham I completely destroyed their claim in my video titled (BOA ep 16) Hundreds are trying to debunk it right now and all give up after they see how the smoke and mirrors have tricked them.
The Mormon Cult Church has several offshoots as well. So what's your point. We can say the same shit about your Mormon cult religion too. You must be on some good drugs!
People like McKay being a GA makes my stomach quesy. As a lawyer, his client is the Church and getting & keeping his client free of criminal prosecution, including the hiding or twisting and obfuscation of evidence, is his tactic. Just as a business person job is to make money for his client the Church.
Most of them are like McKay. Most of them owe their positions to nepotism and cronyism. By the time they are elevated to positions of high authority (and good salaries) in church leadership, they're so invested in the system and organization (and the relatives and friends who elevated them) that they definitely will choose to choose to believe, against all compelling reasons to doubt...just like McKay. ;o)
Not really. According to brother Brigham she will make it to the celestial kingdom but only as a servant. Imagine having to serve that &*^%$ for eternity.
All this emphasis that leaders like McKay put on "spiritual" perceptions (imagination/feelings) being more important than logic, facts and tangible things just further corroborates the view that all of the Book of Mormon "Witnesses" were really just talking about things they imagined in their heads, pursuant to being coached by Joseph Smith, which they then interpreted as things seen by the spirit, as indicated by many of the things the "Witnesses" said throughout their lives. There was no actual angel who showed them physically real golden plates. Joseph Smith just told them what they were supposed to be seeing, they imagined it and then claimed to be "witnesses" of things stated in a collective witness statement prepared for them by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. Even according to the official story, Martin Harris said that he couldn't see what the other guys said they were seeing, so he had to be coached for an extended period of time until he could picture it in his mind or something. That kind of thing would not happen if we were talking about real objects. You don't need faith to see someone holding a rusty hubcap in front of your face.
It's not FAITH that you use to "stare down compelling reasons to doubt." It's DENIAL. FAITH operates where there is no compelling reason one way or the other. Where there is a compelling reason FAITH no longer operates and DENIAL takes over.
In the 1970s, there was a huge hit song (by Morris Albert) that focused on the main reason to believe. The title of the song is "Feelings". The first line of the song: "Feelings, nothing more than feelings." The power of feelings, as interpreted for you by the leaders of the church, is basically the only reason to believe. If you feel good about the church, that's God and the Holy Ghost telling you it's true. Any other kinds of feelings are just your own evil mind or the Devil.
None. But there ARE compelling reasons to PRETEND to believe. Having integrity is a drag and you'll lose all your mormon friends and family. Pretending to believe is rewarding...if you don't have integrity or care about truth.
These GA talks delivered at Church schools and Stake meetings continue to get more and more embarrassing for the Church. They would be laughable if they weren't so pathetic.
I love the way these con men mingle scriptures with the philosophies of men. When Jesus said "do not doubt", he was talking about fig trees and mountains. He was not talking about doubting Jesus commanding a 38 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old girl, have sex with women who were already married, and lie to his wife about it.
Joseph Smith was the living embodiment of "priestcrafts". "Hey, the Lord says all of the members of the church need to gather in Kirtland and buy property there, but let me first buy a bunch of land cheap, so that I can then sell it to you when you get here at a price equal to 20 times more than I paid for it." Sure, Joe Smith was a misunderstood innocent little lamb.
@Mark Krispin well Joseph did pay the price and was killed in the outskirts of "New Jerusalem" unless that was already part of his mission, to die as part of his testimony regardless of how faulty in performance, Jonah tried to skip on Ninevah
John 1:1 The Word Became Flesh 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus Christ is God incarnate, God in the flesh who dwelt among us. He was never an exalted man like you and I.
To: @@timrobertson6440 Re: John 1.1 ... 1 of 3 This verse has been a source of much debate among Bible scholars and translators. ... and I quote " . "The Word," a translation of the Greek λόγος (logos), is widely interpreted as referring to Jesus, as indicated in other verses later in the same chapter.[5] For example, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us” (John 1:14; cf. 1:15, 17). This and other concepts in the Johannine literature set the stage for the Logos-Christology in which the Apologists of the second and third centuries connected the divine Word of John 1:1-5 to the Hebrew Wisdom literature and to the divine Logos of contemporary Greek philosophy.[6] On the basis of John 1:1, Tertullian, early in the third century, argued for two Persons that are distinct but the substance is undivided, of the same substance. In John 1:1c, logos has the article but theos does not. Origen of Alexandria, a teacher in Greek grammar of the third century, argued that John uses the article when theos refers to "the uncreated cause of all things." But the Logos is named theos without the article because He participates in the divinity of the Father because of “His being with the Father.” The main dispute with respect to this verse relates to John 1:1c (“the Word was God”). One minority translation is "the Word was divine." This is based on the argument that the grammatical structure of the Greek does not identify the Word as the Person of God but indicates a qualitative sense. The point being made is that the Logos is of the same uncreated nature or essence as God the Father. In that case, “the Word was God” may be misleading because, in normal English, "God" is a proper noun, referring to the person of the Father or corporately to the three persons of the Godhead. With respect to John 1:1, Ernest Cadman Colwell writes: The absence of the article does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb, it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it. So, whether the predicate (theos) is definite, indefinite or qualitative depends on the context. Consequently, this article raises the concern that uncertainty with respect to the grammar may result in translations based on the theology of the translator. The commonly held theology that Jesus is God naturally leads to a corresponding translation. But a theology in which Jesus is subordinate to God leads to the conclusion that "... a god" or "... divine" is the proper rendering. . John 1:1 in English versions . The traditional rendering in English is: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Other variations of rendering, both in translation or paraphrase, John 1:1c also exist: 14th century: "and God was the word" - Wycliffe's Bible (translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate) 1808: "and the Word was a god" - Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London. 1822: "and the Word was a god" - The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.) 1829: "and the Word was a god" - The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829) 1863: "and the Word was a god" - A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863) 1864: "the LOGOS was God" - A New Emphatic Version (right hand column) 1864: "and a god was the Word" - The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading) 1867: "and the Son was of God" - The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible 1879: "and the Word was a god" - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979) 1885: "and the Word was a god" - Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885) 1911: "and [a] God was the word" - The Coptic Version of the New Testament in the Southern Dialect, by George William Horner.[13] 1924: "the Logos was divine" - The Bible: James Moffatt Translation, by James Moffatt.[14] 1935: "and the Word was divine" - The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago.[15] 1955: "so the Word was divine" - The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.[16] 1956: "And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" - The Wuest Expanded Translation[17] 1958: "and the Word was a god" - The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958); 1962, 1979: "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" - The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979) 1966, 2001: "and he was the same as God" - The Good News Bible. 1970, 1989: "and what God was, the Word was" - The New English Bible and The Revised English Bible. 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" - Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany 1975: "and the Word was a god" - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975); 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" - Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin 1985: “So the Word was divine” - The Original New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield.[18] 1993: "The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." - The Message, by Eugene H. Peterson.[19] 1998: "and what God was the Word also was" - This translation follows Professor Francis J. Moloney, The Gospel of John, ed. Daniel J. Harrington.[20] 2017: “and the Logos was god” - The New Testament: A Translation, by David Bentley Hart.[21] source: Wiki You can read the article for yourself. . TO BE CONTINUED .
@@timrobertson6440 Re: John 1.1 ... 2 of 3 2nd-ly Here is info from one Latter-day Saint scholar's perspective... and I quote " As Far as it is Translated Correctly: The Problem of Tampering with the Word of God in the Transmission and Translation of the New Testament by John F. Hall Translation of the Text of the New Testament [nine paragraphs down] Since through the earlier English translations they utilized, as well as by their own direct consultation, the King James translators had relied heavily on Jerome’s Vulgate translation of fourth century Greek New Testament texts, many problems in translation seem ultimately to trace back to choices and selections made by Jerome, namely which meaning of multiple meaning Greek words must have been indicated, and which Latin words were best suited to render that meaning. @ I recall my excitement in a class taught over thirty-five years ago by Professor Hugh Nibley when the problem of translating words with multiple meanings was discussed. His proof text was John 1:1. The Greek word arche had several meanings corresponding roughly to the English beginning or first in chronological order. But the word could also mean first in order of rank, or it could mean a gathering of those who were first in order of rank. Indeed, in Greek secular writings it often indicated a ruling council. Jerome chose a good word to translate it- the Latin principium. It possessed both chronological and politico-sociological meanings, either first in time or first in rank. English had no equivalent with multiple significance. The King James translators made their selection on the side of chronology in using the word beginning. Another key word in the verse was logos. To it are attached a host of meanings ranging from the simple word to study, logic, speech, spokesman. Displayed on the overhead is the entry on Logos in the Liddell, Scott, and Jones Greek Lexicon. [During the lecture, which I transcribed, there was an overhead which is referred to. For a similar source, you can Google: The Online Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek-English Lexicon. Enter logos in the search box. The listing of entries is quite extensive.] It will provide you some notion of the sometimes ponderous labor that goes into making the selection of a word meaning. No single Latin word contained so wide a range of meanings so Jerome had to make the choice; he selected verbum meaning simply word, no more no less. So we read in John 1:1 - in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Suddenly Nibley excitedly exclaimed, “no, no, no. Isn’t this what John’s Greek must have really meant- in the ruling council was a spokesman and the spokesman was in the godhead, that is among the gods, and the spokesman was himself a god.” Well, I leave it to you to decide which of the multiple meanings you prefer. I trust you recognize the theological gulf behind these choices between multiple meanings. Which one do you suppose best fits Pres. J. Reuben Clark’s call for “an accurate translation that shall be pregnant with the great principles of the restored gospel.” One of my favorite translation problems is found nine times throughout the writings of John. The phrase “if you love me keep my commandments” or its permutation “if one loves the Savior, let him keep his commandments” is found in a number of like variations in the King James Version. However, it may, in fact, mean a great deal more than appears on the surface. Now it is true that the word keep has changed meaning in the 400 years between our time and that of the King James Translators. The word keep then had something to do with guarding. We still use the old term the keep of a castle, for example. That meaning is also found in our use of the term “keeper” such as goal keeper, in games like soccer, or even Harry Potter’s “quidditch.” The Greek word that is rendered as keep is the verb tereo. In Greek it is actually very technical in its meaning; it is almost always used in a military context and is rendered stand watch as a sentry. The word that follows, entole, can mean commandment but is more generally instruction. Were I to render John’s Greek contained in this passage into the English, my translation would be “if you love him, stand watch as a sentry awaiting his every instruction.” Why did not the King James translators give us a more technically correct translation? The answer is clear. It was beyond the scope of their theology and theology correct by Church of England standards was one of their primary considerations. The passage in the Greek is actually about continuing revelation. If we love the Savior we stay in tune with the spirit and stand watch as sentries to receive his instructions for guidance within the sphere of our stewardships, thereby receiving assistance in knowing what we should do to be better servants of the Lord. For the King James translators there was no more revelation. For them the only instructions were commandments of the sort engraven on stone at Sinai. For us the Lord’s instructions come by way of revelation to our living prophets and as inspiration of the spirit to all faithful followers. Our theology agrees with John in this matter and our translation can, in fact, allow the technical Greek of his writing. TO BE CONTINUED . Re: John 1.1 ... 3 of 3 3rd-ly Wherefore, God hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name … (Philippians 2.9), The scripture in effect says that God exalted Jesus. Here's more biblical evidence. This Jesus God was raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God. … (Acts 2) . Now ... what else did you say? Oh ya ... Jesus Christ is God incarnate, God in the flesh who dwelt among us. ABLE RESPONSE exactly. Jesus, God the Son, is a member of the Godhead and took upon Himself flesh . He was never an exalted man like you and I. ABLE RESPONSE I have no idea what you mean by an exalted man like you and I ,,, but ... both biblical scriptures that I quoted tell us that God the Father exalted His son who once was incarnate ... meaning his spirit took upon flesh ... in other words, he was a man. . You have your P.O.V. and I have given you a few pieces of evidence to help you understand our P.O.V. You choose. Or ... are you allowed to choose. Are you allowed to consider scholars from outside of your circle of faith. Can you look at scholars other than Pastor White and consider alternate interpretations. Or ... are you your own man meaning are you yourself an actual scholar. Personally, my education is limited in respect to religion. My minor for my undergraduate degree was philosophy with an emphasis on Religious Studies but I've tried to do "a little" study on my own. In any case... We wish you well, sir.
48 minutes. The sister missionaries gave me compelling reasons to doubt my Christian faith and join the one true church. Are the missionaries Satan's little helpers?
What is your actual question? Pretty sure everything didn't say that. The whole reason LDS missionaries go out is to make other people doubt their current faith and join the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.
@@bobareturned he said anyone who would cause anyone to doubt their faith is working with the Adversary (or something like that), so when missionaries try to persuade "investigators" to doubt their faith and replace it with Mormonism they are doing the exact same thing. So are the missionaries Satans little helpers since they give people compelling reasons to doubt?
I found it so stunning that soooo many people let their life is runned by religon. It is actully scary, no matter wish religon they bow for. That people lives their life through in waiting for miracles and actully death. I can logical understand but not as the base of life. And well you can keep it in your mind but the endless mumble of and screaming out lound. Maybe jesus is real, maybe God is a big fat woman who cookes spagetti to everybody Im SURE they prefer a moore prrsonal relation not idiots that screams about how good they are
1:40:45. Kyle sounds like he went to acting class with amber heard. Oy vay Hmmmm I retract the wifebeater comment. I see stilettos on his dog collared neck.
Hey RFM, who was it that called into Mormonism Live and pushed back on you and Bill by saying that, in D&C, the office of Church Historian didn't require any training? Because clearly that was the case with Joseph Fielding Smith...
![Merry Smithmas! [the Mormon Newscast 12.23.24]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6-0dEL6M4kU/mqdefault.jpg)
This was so well done! Thank you for all of your hard work RFM!
Kyle's talk is another compelling reason to doubt Mormonism.
You always make me laugh. I love your sarcasm. Thanks for making your podcast enjoyable when listening to hard topics
Thank you RFM, for your diligent deconstruction of Kyle's talk.
RFM at his best - completely dismantling, with compelling logic, the general authorities talk.
Fantastic. I really liked the format and the message. I am glad I took the decision to leave after 23 years. I am today a firm believer of Christ and the Bible. I hope many more people will come to the understanding and leave this cult.
It seems that a lawyer gets selected as church historian for a good reason. Lawyers are good at advocating particular points of view. That's not what histoians are supposed to do.
Thank you for stating this. This thought was in my mind as well
This is just amazing. Only RFM could rip this apart so completely. A job well done.
As for the "funeral voice," isn't that mandatory for speaking to a room full of impressionable young Mormons??
I was completely disenchanted with McKay's tears (or just choked up voice) at the end. Even if he believes everything he's saying and even if he does admire Jane Manning James for the reasons he stated, his tone just came off as phony or at least unfeeling to her plight.
I stand all amazed.......at RFM!
Wow! I just listened to this podcast. RFM, you absolutely nailed the slimy pontificator to the wall. He may or may not be a nice guy, but that’s irrelevant. He’s trying to fortify a failing church by browbeating manipulating and deceiving Ernest people. Thank you for your work RFM!
McKay is talking about the Spirit like its feeling is something that is actually defined in scripture. It is not defined anywhere in the BOM. The only place church lessons turn to to define the spirit, outside of the words of Joseph Smith is D&C sections 6, 8, and 9, which is a one-off to Oliver Cowdery. It's super vague ("remember that night I spoke peace to your heart?") This vagueness is the sweet spot of the church, and is why no one actually can define what the "spirit" feels like. It's also why everyone seems to get different answers to the same questions.
This is both absolutely brilliant and hilarious!!!
We should “share the hell” out of this podcast!! Fantastic.!Thanks for the time and passion you put into this episode. ❤
You've got to do a response video for every one of Kyle's speeches RFM!
How good does it feel to know you're now proclaiming the truth!?! I still feel guilt every time I see an investigator's face in my mind from the mission. :(
You could try and deconvert your former investigators (if any actually joined.)
@@Themanyfacesofego I escorted one through the temple even...makes me sick thinking the "church" had me out there lying my ass off for two years to anyone who would listen.
Don't feel too guilty for recruiting for the cult when you didn't know better. You had not yet been enticed any other way, so you didn't have agency at that point. Logic is prevailing, the church's growth is screeching to a halt, and most of our converts are capable of finding their own way out of the church just like we had to.
Facts should Matter Right, Have just 1 Member of Pagan organization started by a Nut in 1830 name Joseph Smith to Show you the scripture about Joseph Smith restoring the gospel book and Verse in the Bible
@@chrissessions6108 That a very charitable way of looking at it. Thank you for the kind words!
I'm impressed that you can say "Parley P. Pratt" so many times without getting tongue tied!!
It's odd that RFM failed to mention the fact that Jane Manning James was (on May 18, 1894) sealed to Joseph Smith as an eternal slave, "to be obedient to him in all things in the Lord as a faithful Servitor." This is the "amazing blessing" she gets for faithfully enduring a lifetime of mistreatment by church leaders. I understand why Krocodile Kryin' Kyle would omit that fact but weird RFM didn't call it out.
😮I did not know this.
Sealed as a slave…my shelf is now toothpicks
@@jessicathurston6494 Now you know. It's sickening. And Kryin' Kyle is sick for using her as an example of receiving a reward for being obedient to your oppressors.
@@KidFreshie BIBLE is the only book which:
heals, guides, judge, warns, helps.
Bible guides souls out from Babylon.
Bible helps to let go from Babylonian entertainments.
Bible helps us see, what has value.
Bible fills souls with knowledge, with peace.
Bible clears out future, for both, for the saved and for the lost.
Bible gives us stories from which to learn, and through which GOD warns us, the generations lived after.
Don+t stay muslim, catholic, Hindu, new ager, atheists, ignorant, satanic, Mormons,
dont be a thief and a robber.
John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Religions are masonic lies, false ways into heaven which masons have made.
Follow not nor believe masons, who give you lies after lies.
Seek out CHRIST, follow HIM and leave lies behind and your old life in the BABYLON:
Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Revelation 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
@@theharshtruthoutthere The bible says that god murdered all of humanity so one guy could start a zoo boat.
When it comes to fallible leaders in the church, I recently asked my brother, "Is God so impotent that He cannot give correction to His anointed servants?" While I didn't bring up this next point with my brother, I know all too well what it's like to try and point out how the current leaders have made mistakes. It's only after they are dead (and even then it might have to be for a decade or two) that it can tacitly be admitted they made any mistakes.
When they’re dead, if their “mistake” was supposedly using the wrong word “Mormon” it’s ok for the reigning “prophet” to declare at gen con that Pres Monson made a grave mistake by his use of the word. Fear not though, the reigning prophet has courageously defied satan’s influence, essentially banning said evil word. Well at least monson didn’t marry kids so there’s that 🤔
Oh Kyle, when I am listening to bacon sizzle that's all the senses I need to know how good it is going to be! 😋
Wow! Kyle's "tone" screams reams, in menacing, shaming, threat. I'd hate to be his kid! I made a promise to myself that I would never seek God out of fear. This man's message does nothing for me. He reminds me of the person who has no confidence in his ability to get across his message and then resorts to using big guns to scare his target into submission. His message has nothing to do with what we have been taught about Christ's love or living a Christ-like life. I suspect that what he gives out, is a mirror of what he experiences within. That must be hell.
Although this is serious, how the church gaslight its members, your deconstruction and commentary of the talk made me laugh so hard. RFM, great job!
Simply brilliant! Love your logical, down-to-earth, common-sense approach, RFM! You uncovered so many fallacies in that talk!! This whole episode has been another great eye-opener!!
and also very funny...your combination of humor and logic is "COMPELLING."
“as for Parley Pratt and Orson they sayed they ware truly convinced that the charges which were Layed to Br Joseph the season past ware actuly falts [false] and they was now fuly perwaided in there own minds that Joseph had done the Best that he could considering all things they confessed that there minds had ben darkened their hearts hardened and they had sayed many things against the prophet that they ought not to have sayed” … Eliza Ann Carter, ca. September 1837
@@joshharrison1160 I agree with you, Josh, RFM has a great sense of humor and his loud laughter is an absolute classic!!!! I could listen to him for hours!
@@harryabelpotter9630 Thank you for sharing that quote, Harry, always good to investigate further and see all sides.
This is high entertainment!
45:30 This is the kind of double-speak that's so frustrating when discussing concepts like faith and doubt with members.
"Doubt is BAD if it's regarding the LDS church" but "Doubt is GOOD if it's regarding compelling (and disproportionately insurmountable) evidence in opposition to the LDS church".
It's such a slimy word game of shifting the goalposts and flipping the playing field.
I recently read “ Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren. It was very helpful to me as I walk this new faith journey. Enjoy!❤
So GOOD RFM!! Thank You... doing great works!!
So I wonder why Kyle as the church historian forgot to mention that Jane Manning actually did get to be sealed in the temple by proxy while she was alive. Sealed to Joseph Smith as an eternal servant / slave.
It's an inconvenient truth.
Hearing the credentials and power rankings read off in his introduction reminded me of how disappointed my dad sounded when I told him I was getting an office transfer and he immediately lit up and asked, “assistant to the president?” and then I replied “no, mission vehicle fleet coordinator”…..you could hear his neck pop as his head dropped on the other line….
LDS positions and ranking is the icing on your salvation…it’s almost like the Word of Wisdom, not revelation but certainly helps punch that ticket.
Thnx. It was a good guess 👍🏻
Kyle McKay’s tone indicates utter contempt toward the masses as he condescends his “wisdom” from the pulpit. Wow.
Contempt ... yes. He spits the words
Kyle sounds like he was channeling the voice, inflections, and tears of Jim Baker, who is dead.
This was so enjoyable! Thank you so so so so so so so much!
By far the most entertaining podcast. I laughed, I cried 😭 I could not have endured this entire talk without your commentary! Thanks RFM
riiight?! That fake crying crap would have been unendurable whether or not the logical fallacies and circular thinking didn’t bore me to death!
Clear! Concise! COMPELLING! Loved it, RFM!
“Different term-SAME STRAWMAN!”. RFM-you have me cracking up with this dissection ! I wish there could also be a verbal emotional replay because he makes his voice quiver as if about to cry!!! over…absolutely nothing. It’s just a learned rhythmical cadence that draws emotion.,,
I can't donate, but here's my comment for the algorithm. I love your content and commentary, RFM!. Thank you so much for all your hard work ❤
Thanks for untangling that word salad of spiritual lingo... The cringe, delivered in that Mormon style that glazes listeners eyes over... Kyle is definitely not 'compelling' - this talk
Is embarrassing.
The funny thing is that everything Kyle says about choosing to believe is as applicable to Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy as it is to the LDS Church. I mean there are compelling reasons to doubt all of the aforementioned entities. But you CAN choose to believe anyway. And remember this: Jesus said "do not doubt". Actually, there is more reason to choose to believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. It keeps pressure on the parents to deliver better goodies. But choosing to believe in the LDS Church just means putting more pressure on yourself to give goodies to the leaders of the church.
Well said. I agree 110%
Actually let me correct myself… I agree 100%. We all know there is no such thing as 110% Just like we all know that RFM is spot on here and Kyle is just spouting total BS. Great stuff by RFM!
I think that the reason that the Speaker, McKay, refers to Jane Manning James as a "minister" at 1:34:00 is because visiting teachers are now called "ministering sisters". He was just saying that she was a beloved visiting teacher using the new terminology. Ministering sisters don't have the priesthood, and somehow that's okay in mormonism.
The parable of the wheat and tares is becoming a status symbol within the church. Status and eternal rewards, all for the ridiculously low price of 10% (minimum).
I find it interesting that all popular depictions of Gods show them as flawed, and vainglorious, and very jealous; the kind of being that would value the 1% unquestioning lemming's devotion over the devotion of a thinking, rational being.
Excellent. Thank you RFM.
In 46:07 the LDS historian quoted Jesus saying"doubt not" or in other words do not doubt mormonism because Jesus already have said that mormonism it's true😮🤔😏
die schlimmste, verabscheungswürdigste Rede….. seit langem!!!
Fazit: nicht denken, nicht hinterfragen, nur gehorchen!
i am shocked, he is talking to young students! he knows how to
work with his voice
Loved this compelling podcast. I laughed and now that you shared your coming in and going out I feel a sense of affinity to you. You are a hoot!!!!
I agree, RFM, and great video! Absolutely one of the most controversial talks in LDS history in recent memory and how fitting that it took place in Idaho’s Mecca of Mormonism, Rexburg, Idaho.
This was an epic breakdown of church psychology!
We cannot choose what we believe. We believe that for which there is compelling evidence. Otherwise we could just believe any fantasy. We may choose to only expose ourselves to that which support a specific belief and ignore anything contrary. That happens all the time.
I would have found Kyles' talk more convincing had he used the "Chewbacca defense" (South Park)
The question I have: How to use this logic based reason with TBM Family when they will only acknowledge what their authorities tell them? Makes it impossible to have a real relationship with family. Everything must be sanitized and superficial. It hurts.
You can’t reason with a TBM
Thanks!
The fact that Kyle has so much anger in his voice should be a huge red flag for anyone who is truly on the path to trying to understand God.
Don't look for or expect answers. Don't expect to receive a whole testimony (strong confirming feelings) overnight. Just be happy to be on the testimony installment plan where you receive increments or portions over an indefinite period of time that eventually may add up to a whole testimony, so long as you continue to ignore and shove aside all of the compelling reasons to doubt. Very good advice. That's why I look forward to attending the next Fast & Increment meeting at church next month...because I want to bear my increment. It's not a whole testimony. But I think I got an increment or two. Like last week, someone blessed the refreshments at a church event. I was thinking that I hope that the blessing works because I don't want to get sick from the refreshments. Turns out the refreshments didn't make me sick...other than the usual blood sugar spike, followed by an insulin spike...followed by extreme drowsiness. But that's typical for donuts and super sweet fruit punch, so I felt real good about things when I woke up 5 hours later and that's my increment for this month.
I am an adult convert to the Church. Born 1952 & baptized 1977. I read the Book of Mormon before I was baptized and was shocked to find how many saints had not read the BoM from beginning to end. Personally ... I received a huge, great big testimony on the day I was baptized. Over time, I began to wonder why a similar experience had not happened to everyone in the Church.
@@harryabelpotter9630 How do you define "testimony"? Can you describe the "huge, great big testimony" that you received on the day you were baptized?
@@TEAM__POSEID0N
(\____/)
( o ' . ' o)
()( ......... )
PICHACHU
.
RE: 2 Nephi 1.15,
This is a scripture that
expresses my personal witness
better than I could ever hope to:
.
But behold,
The Lord hath redeemed my soul from hell;
I have beheld his glory,
And I am encircled about eternally
In the arms of his love
.
You know...
that kind of stuff.
.
peace.
.
@@harryabelpotter9630 So, to sum up, your "testimony" consists of a "pichachu" drawing and the quoting of an incoherent bit of religious babble from the Book of Mormon. I was hoping for something more personal and specific, but not really expecting it. So, a passage from the Book of Mormon consisting of non-specific, undefined abstractions ("redeemed", "hell", "his glory", "encircled about eternally in the arms of his love") expresses your "personal witness" better than you can? Even though it's supposedly your PERSONAL witness? So we're back to Morris Albert: "Feelings...nothing more than feelings..."
@@harryabelpotter9630 Harry Potter, do you also have a "personal witness" concerning Gryffindor and Slytherin? Or just Pichachu and an eternal encirclement in the arms of his love?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this RFM. I cringed at all the logical fallacies and the targeted exploitation of Jane Manning James' story. His tone in the delivery is becoming more popular in the Church, hearkening back to apocalyptic tones of the late 60s and 70s. If we say things sternly enough, surely members will believe and the youth will follow our every instruction.
It's unfortunate he didn't give us a detailed list of these compelling reasons to doubt and counter them with compelling reasons to believe, but it sounds like that would violate our agency, so...
Thank you so much, this is pure gold.
Essentially, we are not to be skeptical or reasoning humans who look for evidence, but to base our beliefs and our lives on one or both of two things: 1. What we want to be true (desire). 2. What feels good. Umm, no, I'll pass on the spiritual heartburn, thank you.
The great irony here is that Kyle's talk is now numbered among the "compelling reasons to doubt".
Donate to Radio Free Mormon, from Law Blasting to Podcasting.
Jane Manning James actually understood the Bible better than these prophets that denied her.
What is a conversion?
RFM this podcast was a masterpiece, u definitely r the best there was , the best there is n the best ever will be!!!!!
Perhaps Kyle's point is that he will be crying tears of joy when equality is also extended to gay and trans people by the LDS church.. I'm being charitable(he, he, he.)
I love how we have talk after talk after talk these days about doubting doubts and staying in the boat. Obviously, people are both doubting and leaving since the full court press continues on.
In the meantime, it is beyond pathetic to hear and watch these attempts to stem the tide or at least control the damage, because any person willing and able to utilize even a modicum of rationality will easily see through the charade. One after the other they march out to explain how reality itself not only can be, but must be, ignored. That verifiable fact must be rejected in favor of delusion so the church can have what it wants, butts in seats and checkbooks out.
Aww yes, but the “best and brightest “are coming over to this side. 😅
Sounds like Eyring got his public speaking training from Warren Jeffs.
Kyle is old enough and a historian yet he is continuing on an ego elevation path. He is moving from the victim territory to the predator territory.
Lawyer at work.This was good.
Do TBMs realize that all Satan has to do to lead people out of the church is tell the truth?
Recently, the LDS branch of Mormonism has produced some mind boggling, awful talks "defending" the faith.
These seem to be increasing in number, and just when you think they could not be equalled, or even exceeded in their awfulness, another one appears:
Jacob Hess;
Brad Wilcox;
David Glen Hatch;
Kyle McKay;
All have given talks that are so awful they are actually compelling listening! It really makes you wonder what other horrors are in store for us.
Get out of that cult😊
Thank you for this breakdown RFM.
Mormon leader talking? Cue crocodile tears please!
I just have one question - if you ever go to lunch with Elder McKay in the greater SLC area, can I come? I promise I’ll sit quietly and pay for everyone’s lunch. 😂❤😂
Not me Debbie. I would be in his face!
@@markkrispin6944, I’d love to be an observer to that encounter as well :)
Why would you want to? He won't change his mind, and you'll walk away frustrated. Better hills than that to die on.
You done did it now RFM 😂:
RFM vs. KSM, Lawyer vs. Lawyer, Rigorously Logical vs. Logically Irreconcilable, Rules of Evidence vs. Evidence without Rules, Answers are the Solutions vs Solutions are not the Answer. I'll pick RFM any day of the week.
Here is the best reason to join the LDS church. The Bible has done a terrible job of uniting Christian's. We have over 3,000 denominations all fighting over who has got the right interpretation of the Bible as they compete for money, and not unity in Christ anymore. Yes, dividing Christian's more and more each day. Where the LDS church has successfully united millions of believers entirely under one church leadership, and it continuously holds millions of faithful followers together as one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. All under one leadership. And it actually works as one combined effort of preaching the gospel world wide, to every nation obeying Christ's great commission to prostolite when no other church can possibly get it together nor actually do what Christ commanded believers must be do. The LDS church does this even with all the half truths and lies constantly hammering it on line by hostile people who have made it their life's mission to destroy it. Seems to me that's a real good sign God is behind it, or Satan wouldn't be so worried about its success by going way out of his way to get people so mad and concerned about it. It's the only Christian church who knows how to hold a unity of faith together today without some apostate ex bishop running off with half the ward Believers and starting a new apostate church every year! This in spite of constant relentless attacks. These anti LDS critics are fighting a church of good honest American well educated citizens who greatly benefit society! They care nothing about fighting evil things that are truly dangerous like Alkeida or leftist religions where everything goes anti family destroying thousands of lives daily. Face it, we don't see LDS missionaries flying planes into buildings or relief society sisters robbing banks or seminary kids starting gangs and robbing old ladies. Satan sure knows how to get people focused on the ridiculous. Link UTube video titled( BOA ep 16 ) and see why this is.
Because a lot of people stay with the lie is a reason???
@@johnrowley310 Maybe it's a lie that keeps people from joining. They get people so focused on something negative that they become blind to the overwhelming positives. I raised my kids in the church and they are all happily married and raise happy kids. The church had a huge influence on their lives keeping them out of drugs and bad relationships especially their missions which solidified their confidence in themselves. My friends who hated the church raised kids who easily fell into promiscuity and kids born out of wedlock which led to divorce and alcoholism. Some are in jail. I can't stress enough how it makes a huge difference in most kids lives. Some fall away but most today still live the good life. The only thing that will keep the church from positively effecting kids is a few parents who were too strict about the church and didn't know how to have fun with their kids and give them enough love. The church only works with people who love Christ not use the church as a threat. Otherwise there is nothing better especially if you go outside the church it's a societal constant downer.
@@paulgregersen3570 This is such a broad and faulty generalization. I have church active friends whose children have veered off the path such you described above. I also have nonmember friends who have raised well adjusted, happy and mentally healthy families without The church affiliation.
@@blckprsthd4791 Yes, I have friends who are not members who have great kids. I simply enjoy an LDS family where we worship God together with greater joy. A feeling of eternity that we all share when we all get together and often pray together and share spiritual experiences. Even the sad times where we often reflect on our long lost relatives who have died or by sharing the good times are priceless. Without the church we would not have the same eternal bonds. I simply love the gospel and Jesus Christ and no amount of negative propaganda can take that away. Once my daughter got into a terrible bike accident colliding head on with another bicycle both going at high speed. She was unconscious for hours with a black tumor on her brain in the x-ray. They had to immediately life flight her to another hospital where my son and I administered to her by the power of the priesthood. The doctor before the surgery needed a second x-ray. The doctor came back amazed and bewildered and said the injury to her brain was completely gone and she literally had no more pain and we took her home. My grandfather was on a mission in Denmark and baptized 17 people in one day. A bunch of Christian magicians were pretending they had the power of God and were gaining people as converts by raising tables and objects into the air. People were so amazed they were all joining their church. My grandfather saw that he was going to lose the people he was teaching was ammediately prompted to stand up on his feet in the audience whereby commanded the ministers by the power of the priesthood to stop their wicked deception. Suddenly their props and tables and objects would no longer function. The head minister became furious and shook his hand at my grandfather and cursed him. From that very audience the two people he was converting were joined by 15 others who were all baptized the next day. Many more things have happened that make my faith unshakeable. As for the CES letter and the book of Abraham I completely destroyed their claim in my video titled (BOA ep 16) Hundreds are trying to debunk it right now and all give up after they see how the smoke and mirrors have tricked them.
The Mormon Cult Church has several offshoots as well. So what's your point. We can say the same shit about your Mormon cult religion too. You must be on some good drugs!
1:36:04 Almond Joy vs Mounds
People like McKay being a GA makes my stomach quesy. As a lawyer, his client is the Church and getting & keeping his client free of criminal prosecution, including the hiding or twisting and obfuscation of evidence, is his tactic. Just as a business person job is to make money for his client the Church.
Most of them are like McKay. Most of them owe their positions to nepotism and cronyism. By the time they are elevated to positions of high authority (and good salaries) in church leadership, they're so invested in the system and organization (and the relatives and friends who elevated them) that they definitely will choose to choose to believe, against all compelling reasons to doubt...just like McKay. ;o)
No. This is not a funeral. I lost it. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
What is the song used in the intro - love it
“Back in Black “ 🎉
AC/DC
The Mormon hierarchy is a fascinating study in weirdness.
Actually it’s a miracle that anyone remains in the gaslighting, fear inducing spiders web that is mormoncorp….🤣
I agree with you Patty. Brainwashing is a hell of a drug!😊
i wouldn't call it a miracle. just mastery of manipulation.
There is no brainwashing nor gaslighting .... It's all about families and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@harryabelpotter9630 which is what someone who's been brainwashed would say.
@@chlyri
Well ... I do know that brainwashing is a pseudo-scientific myth.
What Jane Manning didn't realize at the time was that the Prophets she pleaded with did her A HUGE
FAVOR in denying her plea!
Not really. According to brother Brigham she will make it to the celestial kingdom but only as a servant. Imagine having to serve that &*^%$ for eternity.
@@senorbb2150 If I was her, I would give Brigham my middle finger.
He did her a huge favor? What types of drugs are you on?
Mormonism =RACISM
All this emphasis that leaders like McKay put on "spiritual" perceptions (imagination/feelings) being more important than logic, facts and tangible things just further corroborates the view that all of the Book of Mormon "Witnesses" were really just talking about things they imagined in their heads, pursuant to being coached by Joseph Smith, which they then interpreted as things seen by the spirit, as indicated by many of the things the "Witnesses" said throughout their lives. There was no actual angel who showed them physically real golden plates. Joseph Smith just told them what they were supposed to be seeing, they imagined it and then claimed to be "witnesses" of things stated in a collective witness statement prepared for them by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. Even according to the official story, Martin Harris said that he couldn't see what the other guys said they were seeing, so he had to be coached for an extended period of time until he could picture it in his mind or something. That kind of thing would not happen if we were talking about real objects. You don't need faith to see someone holding a rusty hubcap in front of your face.
It wasn't racism in Jane's day.... Trotsky hadn't come with it yet.
"The ear cutter-offer"??? Oy
It's not FAITH that you use to "stare down compelling reasons to doubt." It's DENIAL. FAITH operates where there is no compelling reason one way or the other. Where there is a compelling reason FAITH no longer operates and DENIAL takes over.
Are there any compelling reasons to believe?
In the 1970s, there was a huge hit song (by Morris Albert) that focused on the main reason to believe. The title of the song is "Feelings". The first line of the song: "Feelings, nothing more than feelings." The power of feelings, as interpreted for you by the leaders of the church, is basically the only reason to believe. If you feel good about the church, that's God and the Holy Ghost telling you it's true. Any other kinds of feelings are just your own evil mind or the Devil.
Desperation in Utah?
None. But there ARE compelling reasons to PRETEND to believe. Having integrity is a drag and you'll lose all your mormon friends and family. Pretending to believe is rewarding...if you don't have integrity or care about truth.
These GA talks delivered at Church schools and Stake meetings continue to get more and more embarrassing for the Church. They would be laughable if they weren't so pathetic.
I love the way these con men mingle scriptures with the philosophies of men. When Jesus said "do not doubt", he was talking about fig trees and mountains. He was not talking about doubting Jesus commanding a 38 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old girl, have sex with women who were already married, and lie to his wife about it.
IF
JOSEPH
SMITH
WERE
BORN
IN
OUR
ERA
THE
LORD
WOULDN'T
WANT
JOSEPH
TO
BE
BORN
IN
THE
LDS
CHURCH
SOMEWHERE
ELSE
FREE
FROM
PRIESTCRAFTS
God would have stoned Joseph Smith to death. Rightfully so .
Joseph Smith was the living embodiment of "priestcrafts". "Hey, the Lord says all of the members of the church need to gather in Kirtland and buy property there, but let me first buy a bunch of land cheap, so that I can then sell it to you when you get here at a price equal to 20 times more than I paid for it." Sure, Joe Smith was a misunderstood innocent little lamb.
@Mark Krispin well Joseph did pay the price and was killed in the outskirts of "New Jerusalem" unless that was already part of his mission, to die as part of his testimony regardless of how faulty in performance, Jonah tried to skip on Ninevah
Joe doinked young girls
@@boydpease4103 Can you please Read that to me about New Jerusalem being built in Jackson county Missouri in the Bible book and Verses ( I'll wait)
Youre such a smothes operatar with an amazing killing instinct!
I hope you (RFM), or anyone else will send your "critique" of Kyle's address to him.
Like all LDS leaders, he needs a little pushback.
1:17:48 Ah yes... now we DON'T want angels to appear to us in the church today.
BRILLIANT 👏👏👏
Didn’t JS recreate God in our image when he taught that God is just an exalted man and we can become equal to Him?
The Lord God, Jesus is an exalted man.
Wherefore, God hath highly exalted Him,
and given Him a name which is
above every name … (Philippians 2.9)
John 1:1
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus Christ is God incarnate, God in the flesh who dwelt among us. He was never an exalted man like you and I.
To: @@timrobertson6440
Re: John 1.1 ... 1 of 3
This verse has been a source of much debate among Bible scholars and translators. ... and I quote "
.
"The Word," a translation of the Greek λόγος (logos), is widely interpreted as referring to Jesus, as indicated in other verses later in the same chapter.[5] For example, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us” (John 1:14; cf. 1:15, 17).
This and other concepts in the Johannine literature set the stage for the Logos-Christology in which the Apologists of the second and third centuries connected the divine Word of John 1:1-5 to the Hebrew Wisdom literature and to the divine Logos of contemporary Greek philosophy.[6]
On the basis of John 1:1, Tertullian, early in the third century, argued for two Persons that are distinct but the substance is undivided, of the same substance.
In John 1:1c, logos has the article but theos does not. Origen of Alexandria, a teacher in Greek grammar of the third century, argued that John uses the article when theos refers to "the uncreated cause of all things." But the Logos is named theos without the article because He participates in the divinity of the Father because of “His being with the Father.”
The main dispute with respect to this verse relates to John 1:1c (“the Word was God”). One minority translation is "the Word was divine." This is based on the argument that the grammatical structure of the Greek does not identify the Word as the Person of God but indicates a qualitative sense. The point being made is that the Logos is of the same uncreated nature or essence as God the Father. In that case, “the Word was God” may be misleading because, in normal English, "God" is a proper noun, referring to the person of the Father or corporately to the three persons of the Godhead.
With respect to John 1:1, Ernest Cadman Colwell writes:
The absence of the article does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb, it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it.
So, whether the predicate (theos) is definite, indefinite or qualitative depends on the context. Consequently, this article raises the concern that uncertainty with respect to the grammar may result in translations based on the theology of the translator. The commonly held theology that Jesus is God naturally leads to a corresponding translation. But a theology in which Jesus is subordinate to God leads to the conclusion that "... a god" or "... divine" is the proper rendering.
.
John 1:1 in English versions
.
The traditional rendering in English is:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Other variations of rendering, both in translation or paraphrase, John 1:1c also exist:
14th century: "and God was the word" - Wycliffe's Bible (translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate)
1808: "and the Word was a god" - Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
1822: "and the Word was a god" - The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
1829: "and the Word was a god" - The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
1863: "and the Word was a god" - A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
1864: "the LOGOS was God" - A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
1864: "and a god was the Word" - The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
1867: "and the Son was of God" - The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
1879: "and the Word was a god" - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
1885: "and the Word was a god" - Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
1911: "and [a] God was the word" - The Coptic Version of the New Testament in the Southern Dialect, by George William Horner.[13]
1924: "the Logos was divine" - The Bible: James Moffatt Translation, by James Moffatt.[14]
1935: "and the Word was divine" - The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago.[15]
1955: "so the Word was divine" - The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.[16]
1956: "And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" - The Wuest Expanded Translation[17]
1958: "and the Word was a god" - The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
1962, 1979: "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" - The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979)
1966, 2001: "and he was the same as God" - The Good News Bible.
1970, 1989: "and what God was, the Word was" - The New English Bible and The Revised English Bible.
1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" - Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
1975: "and the Word was a god" - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" - Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
1985: “So the Word was divine” - The Original New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield.[18]
1993: "The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." - The Message, by Eugene H. Peterson.[19]
1998: "and what God was the Word also was" - This translation follows Professor Francis J. Moloney, The Gospel of John, ed. Daniel J. Harrington.[20]
2017: “and the Logos was god” - The New Testament: A Translation, by David Bentley Hart.[21] source: Wiki
You can read the article for yourself.
.
TO BE CONTINUED
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@@timrobertson6440
Re: John 1.1 ... 2 of 3
2nd-ly
Here is info from one Latter-day Saint scholar's perspective... and I quote "
As Far as it is Translated Correctly: The Problem of Tampering with the Word of God in the Transmission and Translation of the New Testament
by John F. Hall
Translation of the Text of the New Testament
[nine paragraphs down]
Since through the earlier English translations they utilized, as well as by their own direct consultation, the King James translators had relied heavily on Jerome’s Vulgate translation of fourth century Greek New Testament texts, many problems in translation seem ultimately to trace back to choices and selections made by Jerome, namely which meaning of multiple meaning Greek words must have been indicated, and which Latin words were best suited to render that meaning. @
I recall my excitement in a class taught over thirty-five years ago by Professor Hugh Nibley when the problem of translating words with multiple meanings was discussed. His proof text was John 1:1. The Greek word arche had several meanings corresponding roughly to the English beginning or first in chronological order. But the word could also mean first in order of rank, or it could mean a gathering of those who were first in order of rank. Indeed, in Greek secular writings it often indicated a ruling council. Jerome chose a good word to translate it- the Latin principium. It possessed both chronological and politico-sociological meanings, either first in time or first in rank. English had no equivalent with multiple significance. The King James translators made their selection on the side of chronology in using the word beginning.
Another key word in the verse was logos. To it are attached a host of meanings ranging from the simple word to study, logic, speech, spokesman. Displayed on the overhead is the entry on Logos in the Liddell, Scott, and Jones Greek Lexicon. [During the lecture, which I transcribed, there was an overhead which is referred to. For a similar source, you can Google: The Online Liddell-Scott-Jones Greek-English Lexicon. Enter logos in the search box. The listing of entries is quite extensive.] It will provide you some notion of the sometimes ponderous labor that goes into making the selection of a word meaning. No single Latin word contained so wide a range of meanings so Jerome had to make the choice; he selected verbum meaning simply word, no more no less. So we read in John 1:1 - in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
Suddenly Nibley excitedly exclaimed, “no, no, no. Isn’t this what John’s Greek must have really meant- in the ruling council was a spokesman and the spokesman was in the godhead, that is among the gods, and the spokesman was himself a god.”
Well, I leave it to you to decide which of the multiple meanings you prefer. I trust you recognize the theological gulf behind these choices between multiple meanings. Which one do you suppose best fits Pres. J. Reuben Clark’s call for “an accurate translation that shall be pregnant with the great principles of the restored gospel.”
One of my favorite translation problems is found nine times throughout the writings of John. The phrase “if you love me keep my commandments” or its permutation “if one loves the Savior, let him keep his commandments” is found in a number of like variations in the King James Version. However, it may, in fact, mean a great deal more than appears on the surface.
Now it is true that the word keep has changed meaning in the 400 years between our time and that of the King James Translators. The word keep then had something to do with guarding. We still use the old term the keep of a castle, for example. That meaning is also found in our use of the term “keeper” such as goal keeper, in games like soccer, or even Harry Potter’s “quidditch.”
The Greek word that is rendered as keep is the verb tereo. In Greek it is actually very technical in its meaning; it is almost always used in a military context and is rendered stand watch as a sentry. The word that follows, entole, can mean commandment but is more generally instruction. Were I to render John’s Greek contained in this passage into the English, my translation would be “if you love him, stand watch as a sentry awaiting his every instruction.”
Why did not the King James translators give us a more technically correct translation? The answer is clear. It was beyond the scope of their theology and theology correct by Church of England standards was one of their primary considerations.
The passage in the Greek is actually about continuing revelation. If we love the Savior we stay in tune with the spirit and stand watch as sentries to receive his instructions for guidance within the sphere of our stewardships, thereby receiving assistance in knowing what we should do to be better servants of the Lord.
For the King James translators there was no more revelation. For them the only instructions were commandments of the sort engraven on stone at Sinai. For us the Lord’s instructions come by way of revelation to our living prophets and as inspiration of the spirit to all faithful followers. Our theology agrees with John in this matter and our translation can, in fact, allow the technical Greek of his writing.
TO BE CONTINUED
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Re: John 1.1 ... 3 of 3
3rd-ly
Wherefore, God hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name … (Philippians 2.9), The scripture in effect says that God exalted Jesus.
Here's more biblical evidence.
This Jesus God was raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God. … (Acts 2)
.
Now ... what else did you say?
Oh ya ...
Jesus Christ is God incarnate,
God in the flesh who dwelt among us.
ABLE RESPONSE
exactly.
Jesus, God the Son, is a member of the Godhead and took upon Himself flesh
.
He was never an exalted man like you and I.
ABLE RESPONSE
I have no idea what you mean by an exalted man like you and I ,,, but ...
both biblical scriptures that I quoted tell us that God the Father exalted His son who once was incarnate ... meaning his spirit took upon flesh ... in other words, he was a man.
.
You have your P.O.V.
and I have given you a few pieces of evidence to help you understand our P.O.V.
You choose.
Or ... are you allowed to choose.
Are you allowed to consider scholars from outside of your circle of faith.
Can you look at scholars other than Pastor White and consider alternate interpretations.
Or ... are you your own man meaning are you yourself an actual scholar.
Personally, my education is limited in respect to religion. My minor for my undergraduate degree was philosophy with an emphasis on Religious Studies but I've tried to do "a little" study on my own.
In any case...
We wish you well, sir.
Eddie Van Halen couldn’t read music. Stupid point.
Right, Eddie Van Halen was music…
48 minutes. The sister missionaries gave me compelling reasons to doubt my Christian faith and join the one true church. Are the missionaries Satan's little helpers?
What is your actual question? Pretty sure everything didn't say that.
The whole reason LDS missionaries go out is to make other people doubt their current faith and join the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints.
@@bobareturned he said anyone who would cause anyone to doubt their faith is working with the Adversary (or something like that), so when missionaries try to persuade "investigators" to doubt their faith and replace it with Mormonism they are doing the exact same thing. So are the missionaries Satans little helpers since they give people compelling reasons to doubt?
I found it so stunning that soooo many people let their life is runned by religon. It is actully scary, no matter wish religon they bow for. That people lives their life through in waiting for miracles and actully death.
I can logical understand but not as the base of life. And well you can keep it in your mind but the endless mumble of and screaming out lound.
Maybe jesus is real, maybe God is a big fat woman who cookes spagetti to everybody Im SURE they prefer a moore prrsonal relation not idiots that screams about how good they are
The deception and mental gymnastics of Kyle's logic is what gives attorneys a bad name
Its not a lie if you believe it>>>
1:40:45. Kyle sounds like he went to acting class with amber heard. Oy vay
Hmmmm I retract the wifebeater comment. I see stilettos on his dog collared neck.
Hey RFM, who was it that called into Mormonism Live and pushed back on you and Bill by saying that, in D&C, the office of Church Historian didn't require any training? Because clearly that was the case with Joseph Fielding Smith...
John Taylor was from England not Canada.