Meshuggah don't actually use polyrhythms much, they use polymeters. That's where the notes inside the bars all click to the same grid (as opposed to the flammy weirdness of these polyrhythms), but the bars themselves are running against each other, starting and stopping in different places. But it's an extremely common mistake. I'm not sure if I have the numbers right (someone else can correct me), but I think the especially famous pattern in Bleed has Tomas playing 3/4 on his feet, against 4/4 on his hands. If I have that right, then every twelve clicks the feet and the hands will match back up. Polyrhythms are usually played between each click, as in this video, and they're all weird and flammy because the grids snap to different places, whereas in Meshuggah, it's the bars themselves that usually move around, but ultimately everyone is playing along the same sixteenth note grid.
It's easier to understand this kind of theoretical aspects of music from videos like this on TH-cam then music theory manuals like We had in school.Nice job...really good job
African music is basically polyrhythmic and its a up to listener to figure out what the downbeats are. And some of the rhythm are internal. It's why you can dance to any African song.
I agree but I can't hear the separate notes (or rhythms) at all when he asks to try to pick them out separately. I just hear everything that is being played every time so what's the method or trick to hear or concentrate on them separately?
This was fascinating! It just goes to show how a simple change in sequence creates such a profound difference. Just that slight offset in the melody forms a separate rhythm, hence polyrhytm? I must know, those triplets... were they all the same note? (E-flat?) It was hard to tell at times because the quarter note (C-flat?) sounded very much a part of it at times. This could be one reason you emphasized listening to each one separately, in order to get a better understanding of what's happening. Music is very inspiring and it's never too late to learn! Thank you for this video!! 🙂
I had to research this because of a freestyle rapper. reactors and comments talked about how he pretty much does whatever he wants at this point but still sounds good.
I love your method of explanation. As a music teacher, it loans a lot of perspective to me as far as answering the question "what is the easiest and most universal way to describe something to someone who knows nothing?" - That being said, as a music lover, I find your familiar background music very distracting!
Ngl, I came here from Marine. Outside of Mori, she might be the most ambitious member of hololive. Not only are all of her songs radically different despite basically being about the same thing: but her song Unison actually uses Polyrhythms and sounds like almost nothing i've ever heard before. But yeah, thank you for the explaination. :)
I have noticed that as I practice Chopin, my polyrhythms get to mathematical precision. First place I encountered polyrhythms is in Chopin's Nocturne in Eb. Before that, when I was playing Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach, while I did encounter triplets for example, in the second movement of Piano Concerto no. 21, those triplets were always over quarter notes or longer, thus making it not a polyrhythm so much as giving a more waltz like feel to a time signature like 4/4. I can play short bits of polyrhythms, like what I find in Chopin's Nocturne in Eb faithfully. But when the polyrhythm becomes a whole section or piece like in Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu, I get intimidated by just how long I have to play that polyrhythm. Sure, short bits of polyrhythm, I can get to mathematical precision, but as the polyrhythm gets longer and longer, that mathematical precision becomes less and less, and at some point, I go from the polyrhythm to no polyrhythm, as my hands catch up in note speed. And guess what? It is those long lasting polyrhythms that I need to have at mathematical precision throughout the section with the polyrhythm, like in Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu. Something like 3:8 that I find in Chopin's Nocturne in Eb, can just be estimated, because it is only for 1 measure
@@kivantaleschian9269 I’m confused,it can’t be 6/8 bc triplets count as 1 beat, there is 4 triplets so it makes 4/4 . There would have been 2 more triplets to make it 6/8 and 6/8 means six beats in a measure and the 8 note gets 1 beat
I stop at 13. What about irrational rhythms? Taking the four beats and squeezing in another note for example, keeping the total time the same. With sufficient practice, playing polyrhythms can be done by feel.
My favourite illustration of polyrhythm is Bernstein's dissection of a single page from Le Sacre du Printemps th-cam.com/video/OWeQXTnv_xU/w-d-xo.htmlm10s
okay but two rhythms against each other that are in different time signatures? Is that still a polyrhythm? I get the different subdivisions in the same time signature.
Bleed uses polymetres which is different to polyrhythms. The conflicting rhythms are using the same subdivision but resolve over several bars, where as a polyrhythm uses conflicting subdivisions that resolve usually within a bar or a few beats. I haven't deeply analysed the whole song, but I know the framework of most of the song is using herta patterns that don't resolve in a single bar. Just analysing the first 8 bars before the vocals come in, you could say it's a polymetre of 12/8 (guitar/kick) against 4/4 (snare/cymbals) that resolves every 3 bars. (only the first few bars, there's a lot of varying parts.) The herta pattern used here is 2 32nd notes then 2 16th notes. To simplify it, that's a pattern fitting in the space of 3 16th notes. A bar of 4/4 fits 16 16th notes, so a repeating 3 pattern is going to go over the bar line. The pattern won't start on the 1st beat again until 3 bars of 4/4 have passed. That's just the rhythm of the guitar though, the melody has those bends coming in on every 2nd bar, making the whole thing more complicated. If you want to be thorough and treat melody and rhythm combined as a whole thing, the guitar part is really this big 6 bar monster. As a listener though it's easier to think of it as a 4/4 with a bunch of syncopation. That's just the intro though, the song mixes it up a lot but seems to mostly stick to this idea of using hertas to displace the rhythm against 4/4.
![30 ชั่วโมงคนเดียว บนรถไฟชั้น 3 โซเวียต [Around The World Ep. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MlE9boAVqDA/mqdefault.jpg)
Oh my gosh, I love this channel, it helped me survive music theory class in high school, keep making videos please!!
More videos are on the way soooon!!
So this is the reason why meshuggah's songs sound so chaotically ordered 👌👌
💯, makes it more fun to listen to when you understand the math behind how every measure and time signature matches up.
Yep clockwork especially
@@natas0733 love that song
Meshuggah don't actually use polyrhythms much, they use polymeters. That's where the notes inside the bars all click to the same grid (as opposed to the flammy weirdness of these polyrhythms), but the bars themselves are running against each other, starting and stopping in different places. But it's an extremely common mistake. I'm not sure if I have the numbers right (someone else can correct me), but I think the especially famous pattern in Bleed has Tomas playing 3/4 on his feet, against 4/4 on his hands. If I have that right, then every twelve clicks the feet and the hands will match back up.
Polyrhythms are usually played between each click, as in this video, and they're all weird and flammy because the grids snap to different places, whereas in Meshuggah, it's the bars themselves that usually move around, but ultimately everyone is playing along the same sixteenth note grid.
A fellow djentleman of culture I see.
great video on polyrythyms, broke it down easily and went over the main points well. Many thanks!
It's easier to understand this kind of theoretical aspects of music from videos like this on TH-cam then music theory manuals like We had in school.Nice job...really good job
for some reason, rhythm games brought me here. this was easy to understand, thank you!
Same here
rhythm heaven?
frums
A dance of fire and ice brought me here
thank you for helping me not commit bridge jump because of music theory, much appreciated.
African music is basically polyrhythmic and its a up to listener to figure out what the downbeats are. And some of the rhythm are internal.
It's why you can dance to any African song.
So this is why us drummers find it easy to write songs, This is the basics to playing a beat and it was natural for me to apply it to writing a melody
Well i banging my head a little bit while hearing the example..
I agree but I can't hear the separate notes (or rhythms) at all when he asks to try to pick them out separately. I just hear everything that is being played every time so what's the method or trick to hear or concentrate on them separately?
This would be easier to demonstrate with stereo separation, perhaps with two different drums, one on each side (and maybe a click in the centre).
And with coloring the actual played notes. It was pretty difficult to hear only one side of the melody.
The triplets over 16th notes is very helpful especially if you're a Death Metal fan. Namely VADER!
This was fascinating! It just goes to show how a simple change in sequence creates such a profound difference. Just that slight offset in the melody forms a separate rhythm, hence polyrhytm? I must know, those triplets... were they all the same note? (E-flat?) It was hard to tell at times because the quarter note (C-flat?) sounded very much a part of it at times. This could be one reason you emphasized listening to each one separately, in order to get a better understanding of what's happening. Music is very inspiring and it's never too late to learn! Thank you for this video!! 🙂
This is what it's called! Thank you! I never knew!
The one thing I would suggest with this regarding the triplets, is play at the end what the triplets sound by themselves.
very underrated channel!
Really nice explanation, very helpful.
I had to research this because of a freestyle rapper. reactors and comments talked about how he pretty much does whatever he wants at this point but still sounds good.
Very informative. Like how Adam Neely does it, but just graphics.
damn this just made me realize how much Radiohead uses polyrhythm
yea noticed it in Daydreaming.
It made me realise how much *I* use polyrhythm...
There's an album entirely centered on it called "Polygondwanaland", I found out about it through that album
@@victoonix2802 king gizz for life
Unless you're a piano player... *laughs in confused piano student*
2:11, and that is how extratone became a genre
5 against 4 is common in drummer land, as is 7 against 4. Turns out I play a lot in 2 against 3..
question...how did you made these slides an music-notation ideas??? it's really good ! :)
I used After Effects to make all the graphics and animations in the videos.
@@Oddquartet thanks for replying man !! Appreciate it 😀
I love your method of explanation. As a music teacher, it loans a lot of perspective to me as far as answering the question "what is the easiest and most universal way to describe something to someone who knows nothing?" - That being said, as a music lover, I find your familiar background music very distracting!
5:45
Laughing proudly with chon songs on guitar
Ngl, I came here from Marine. Outside of Mori, she might be the most ambitious member of hololive. Not only are all of her songs radically different despite basically being about the same thing: but her song Unison actually uses Polyrhythms and sounds like almost nothing i've ever heard before.
But yeah, thank you for the explaination. :)
Well explained. I read that Polythythms are common in African music. In fact, these examples almost sound like African drums.
nicely done - thank you!
I have noticed that as I practice Chopin, my polyrhythms get to mathematical precision. First place I encountered polyrhythms is in Chopin's Nocturne in Eb. Before that, when I was playing Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach, while I did encounter triplets for example, in the second movement of Piano Concerto no. 21, those triplets were always over quarter notes or longer, thus making it not a polyrhythm so much as giving a more waltz like feel to a time signature like 4/4. I can play short bits of polyrhythms, like what I find in Chopin's Nocturne in Eb faithfully. But when the polyrhythm becomes a whole section or piece like in Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu, I get intimidated by just how long I have to play that polyrhythm.
Sure, short bits of polyrhythm, I can get to mathematical precision, but as the polyrhythm gets longer and longer, that mathematical precision becomes less and less, and at some point, I go from the polyrhythm to no polyrhythm, as my hands catch up in note speed. And guess what? It is those long lasting polyrhythms that I need to have at mathematical precision throughout the section with the polyrhythm, like in Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu. Something like 3:8 that I find in Chopin's Nocturne in Eb, can just be estimated, because it is only for 1 measure
You are right, I am trying to play "Opening" by Phillip Glass, the entire piece is 3 against 2 and it's challenging to do that correctly for long time
That was very useful thank you!
One of my favor things :)
So...
...this whole comment section are people interested in prog, right?
Yeah pretty much.
I looked this up after watching this: th-cam.com/video/tYwYb1Vgm2U/w-d-xo.html
2:30 what is poly rhythm? When you play two different subdivisions at the same time
2 rhythms
@@carlus6432 in 5:28 I hear it as 6/8 time signature can we write it 6/8 rather than 3 against 4 polly rhythm?
@@kivantaleschian9269 I’m confused,it can’t be 6/8 bc triplets count as 1 beat, there is 4 triplets so it makes 4/4 . There would have been 2 more triplets to make it 6/8 and 6/8 means six beats in a measure and the 8 note gets 1 beat
@@carlus6432 Oh thank u I kinda heard it like 6/8 without counting bars
@@kivantaleschian9269 I don’t know how you get 6/8 but it’s ok 😂
Sick
I stop at 13. What about irrational rhythms? Taking the four beats and squeezing in another note for example, keeping the total time the same. With sufficient practice, playing polyrhythms can be done by feel.
The way you animated this makes it hard to follow. I can't use the visual to hook onto the notes
didn't expect to see another rdl member here
You changed the tempo. That makes it more confusing than what it has to be
Amazing video
I know how Tomas Haake plays bleed now. Easy peasy.
So youre here because of meshuggah too
Easy on the brain,hard on the feet
Great video but this does not help me understand Trout Mask Replica, although i love it..
0:29 No Quarter
"Unless your a piano player or a drummer your probably not playing both the rhythms at the same time"
Tomas Haake: Hold my beer
What is the ratio for reggae?
The most iconic polyrhythm is Carol of the Bells
Learned that one in band class a while back lol
2:48 sensational
My favourite illustration of polyrhythm is Bernstein's dissection of a single page from Le Sacre du Printemps
th-cam.com/video/OWeQXTnv_xU/w-d-xo.htmlm10s
The pattern is not four quarters, the pattern is actually three quarters, or am I wrong?
wonder if you can have like 3 different rhythms instead of 2 at the same time without it sounding bad?
2:3:4
I was able to catch 3 against 4 perfectly, but with 2 against 3, im having a hard time catching the eighth notes
Danny Carey
Correct answer
@@conz1012 I agree 100% and Tool music is what brought me here!
Also Thomas Haake
now go and watch Danny Carrey playing Pneuma live. thank me later.
Came here to understand Phonon’s Poly Riddim
I watched bleed by meshuggah and had to come understand what the hell this was lol
okay but two rhythms against each other that are in different time signatures? Is that still a polyrhythm? I get the different subdivisions in the same time signature.
If they have different meters it's called polymeter.
why would you have a thumbnail that is NOT a polyrhythm?
My ears have such a hard time following the individual rhythms against the other
Here from polyriddim XD
same lol
What polyrhythm is used in Bleed?
Bleed uses polymetres which is different to polyrhythms. The conflicting rhythms are using the same subdivision but resolve over several bars, where as a polyrhythm uses conflicting subdivisions that resolve usually within a bar or a few beats. I haven't deeply analysed the whole song, but I know the framework of most of the song is using herta patterns that don't resolve in a single bar.
Just analysing the first 8 bars before the vocals come in, you could say it's a polymetre of 12/8 (guitar/kick) against 4/4 (snare/cymbals) that resolves every 3 bars. (only the first few bars, there's a lot of varying parts.)
The herta pattern used here is 2 32nd notes then 2 16th notes. To simplify it, that's a pattern fitting in the space of 3 16th notes. A bar of 4/4 fits 16 16th notes, so a repeating 3 pattern is going to go over the bar line. The pattern won't start on the 1st beat again until 3 bars of 4/4 have passed.
That's just the rhythm of the guitar though, the melody has those bends coming in on every 2nd bar, making the whole thing more complicated. If you want to be thorough and treat melody and rhythm combined as a whole thing, the guitar part is really this big 6 bar monster. As a listener though it's easier to think of it as a 4/4 with a bunch of syncopation.
That's just the intro though, the song mixes it up a lot but seems to mostly stick to this idea of using hertas to displace the rhythm against 4/4.
I'm watching this but I'm zoning out
Dr.Bitterbrains
yeah i can't pull them apart.
Who else here cause the great ‘shugg
King Gizz brought me here
Glad my autistic hearing makes this easy.
hell
⚘️⚘️⚘️⚘️⚘️
i can't hear even the individual sides ughh
oooooooooooof
🐒
h
osu...
adofai....