Thank you! I love doing them. In my old age, I'm somewhat torn - I think BECMI is the sharpest-looking and most complete, but there is something to be said for B/X's 1-14 and done approach. I think I might want the look and feel of BECMI, but rejigger to make 14 the top Human level, and redo the quests for immortality balanced to be post-14 activities. BUT... maybe as we revisit Companion, Master's, and Immortals I'll rediscover my affection for levels in the 20s and 30s.
I had a friend when we were about 11 or so who one night i stayed at his house, and i found his red box set and asked him about it, he quickly showed me by having me roll a character and running an impromptu game. It was a blast, and its fair to say i was addicted, even though i died in the first fight lol. It was village of hommlet, and a rat killed my magic user. I then rolled an elf that made it to lvl 4 or so, but i also started collecting books. then i got older and i lost all of them, and after a divorce I re discovered d and d by watching some Acquisitions Incorporated shows, and decided to get back into it with 5e. Now im back to running 2nd ed. And Dungeon Crawl Classics for my family. Cool vid. o and I have re purchased all the box sets as well, I dont have the immortals box, but I have the 2 books, (never played it) as well as the old MERP stuff.
I really love that about old-school D&D, to be able to encounter level inappropriate monsters. Sometimes the best decision (as it is in real life) is to live to fight another day. Excellent video.
Death Ray 2+ for Demi-humans is huge once the Weapon Mastery kicks in, because deflection rolls use that save. Elves can get 6+ using the elves splat which gave you an alternative way to level the elf up, using a caster progression instead of increasing the attack ranks. You could (IIRC) do both, but good luck with XP needed. The 3ed DM guide stated that a percentage of encounters should be very challenging or lethal, and that the players should flee. Unfortunately, in that period the zeitgeist created a community that ignored and misinterpreted these rules to the point of propagating misconceptions. These misconceptions translated into the designers and we had 4e and later 5e which are mostly (not necessarily) more "padded" (3e is still more "padded compared to BECMI, see the already lethal but less screwy 3ed level drain, which later editions completely defanged or removed). Another example of these community-driven misconceptions, can be the magic-mart. The 3ed DMG gave you guidelines about what items COULD be available in a settlement in base of its size. The current most common reading is "in city X you WILL find items of Y gp or less". Which is still STUPID, because the fact that the item is there doesn't mean that you will have automatic access anyway, because perhaps the church wants you to complete a quest before even discussing the price, or the king will just borrow it, or the thieves guild will have to be involved to obtain it. Oh well.
This is where I started. Love the art and the rules taking you out of the dungeons and across the world. I personally think the Companion and Master rules could have just been supplements rather then adding more levels.
Thieves and Abilities One thing that I WISH had been included into the BECMI system would be difficulty modifiers for the Thieves' abilities, in particular the POSITIVE ones (negative ones are mentioned once the skills become high enough to go past 100%). Playing a starting thief is much more fun when most of the locks are very easy, giving +50% or some such, and the finding and disarming traps doesn't require two 10% rolls, the latter of which, on a failure, triggers the trap. You are better off just pretending to disarm the trap and then telling the meatshield to tank the damage. In our new BECMI campaign, I changed the thieves' abilities into skills, and change the skill progression to (Ability+Level)/2. This means that a 1st level thief with DEX 16 will have a Lockpicking skill of (16+1)/2 = 8.5, rounds up to 9. So you can see that our thieves already start from ~45% success chance. Add some rudimentary locks that give +5 to pick them, and the 1st level thief really does feel like a professional burglar. Sure, he might not be the legendary safecracker yet, but clearly something like a simple lock that a farmer or an orc might have is not enough to stop him. Also, I allow repeated attempts, albeit with much more time: First time is a minute, the second is 10 minutes, the third is an hour. Which can become important if you are on a timetable.
Mentzers advice is not to over-use dice. You're kind of not meant to always roll the dice every time the thief tries to do something, meaning that you don't need to worry too much about many of those % totals looking a bit low.
You'd have to purchase the PDFs through DM's Guild or DriveThru, and then set them up with a service like Lulu.com to print them on demand. It's do-able, but not as convenient as simply ordering with a click.
I remember every single page of that book. I must have read it 100 times cover to cover when it came out.
You and me both. It's probably my single favorite book in the BECMI boxed sets.
Same
Love these deep dives into BECMI. Best version of D&D hands down.
Thank you! I love doing them. In my old age, I'm somewhat torn - I think BECMI is the sharpest-looking and most complete, but there is something to be said for B/X's 1-14 and done approach.
I think I might want the look and feel of BECMI, but rejigger to make 14 the top Human level, and redo the quests for immortality balanced to be post-14 activities. BUT... maybe as we revisit Companion, Master's, and Immortals I'll rediscover my affection for levels in the 20s and 30s.
@TheOldDragoon I'm with you. BX/BECMI is the right mix
I had a friend when we were about 11 or so who one night i stayed at his house, and i found his red box set and asked him about it, he quickly showed me by having me roll a character and running an impromptu game. It was a blast, and its fair to say i was addicted, even though i died in the first fight lol. It was village of hommlet, and a rat killed my magic user.
I then rolled an elf that made it to lvl 4 or so, but i also started collecting books. then i got older and i lost all of them, and after a divorce I re discovered d and d by watching some Acquisitions Incorporated shows, and decided to get back into it with 5e.
Now im back to running 2nd ed. And Dungeon Crawl Classics for my family.
Cool vid. o and I have re purchased all the box sets as well, I dont have the immortals box, but I have the 2 books, (never played it) as well as the old MERP stuff.
I really love that about old-school D&D, to be able to encounter level inappropriate monsters. Sometimes the best decision (as it is in real life) is to live to fight another day. Excellent video.
Know when to walk away, know when to RUN.
Death Ray 2+ for Demi-humans is huge once the Weapon Mastery kicks in, because deflection rolls use that save.
Elves can get 6+ using the elves splat which gave you an alternative way to level the elf up, using a caster progression instead of increasing the attack ranks. You could (IIRC) do both, but good luck with XP needed.
The 3ed DM guide stated that a percentage of encounters should be very challenging or lethal, and that the players should flee. Unfortunately, in that period the zeitgeist created a community that ignored and misinterpreted these rules to the point of propagating misconceptions. These misconceptions translated into the designers and we had 4e and later 5e which are mostly (not necessarily) more "padded" (3e is still more "padded compared to BECMI, see the already lethal but less screwy 3ed level drain, which later editions completely defanged or removed).
Another example of these community-driven misconceptions, can be the magic-mart. The 3ed DMG gave you guidelines about what items COULD be available in a settlement in base of its size. The current most common reading is "in city X you WILL find items of Y gp or less". Which is still STUPID, because the fact that the item is there doesn't mean that you will have automatic access anyway, because perhaps the church wants you to complete a quest before even discussing the price, or the king will just borrow it, or the thieves guild will have to be involved to obtain it.
Oh well.
Good point re: Weapon Mastery.
This is where I started. Love the art and the rules taking you out of the dungeons and across the world.
I personally think the Companion and Master rules could have just been supplements rather then adding more levels.
I would tend to agree, hence my lukewarm reaction to the Master Rules.
Larry Elmore may be the single biggest reason so many kids got into D&D.
Long live King Elmore!
Totally. There are two games that immediately pop to mind where the box cover art alone dragged me in - BECMI D&D, and Battletech.
Agreed. To me, he is THE becmi artist
@@TheOldDragoonsecond edition Shadowrun is one for me
Thieves and Abilities
One thing that I WISH had been included into the BECMI system would be difficulty modifiers for the Thieves' abilities, in particular the POSITIVE ones (negative ones are mentioned once the skills become high enough to go past 100%). Playing a starting thief is much more fun when most of the locks are very easy, giving +50% or some such, and the finding and disarming traps doesn't require two 10% rolls, the latter of which, on a failure, triggers the trap. You are better off just pretending to disarm the trap and then telling the meatshield to tank the damage.
In our new BECMI campaign, I changed the thieves' abilities into skills, and change the skill progression to (Ability+Level)/2. This means that a 1st level thief with DEX 16 will have a Lockpicking skill of (16+1)/2 = 8.5, rounds up to 9. So you can see that our thieves already start from ~45% success chance. Add some rudimentary locks that give +5 to pick them, and the 1st level thief really does feel like a professional burglar. Sure, he might not be the legendary safecracker yet, but clearly something like a simple lock that a farmer or an orc might have is not enough to stop him. Also, I allow repeated attempts, albeit with much more time: First time is a minute, the second is 10 minutes, the third is an hour. Which can become important if you are on a timetable.
This would DEFINITNELY have made the Thief a more enjoyable play experience.
Great video. Really brings back some memories.
Thanks! I'll try to keep it up, with a couple of new things here and there.
Loved the video. Very interesting and informative. Thank you
Thank you for watching, more to come!
Mentzers advice is not to over-use dice. You're kind of not meant to always roll the dice every time the thief tries to do something, meaning that you don't need to worry too much about many of those % totals looking a bit low.
Great vid, thanks
Thank you!
I love this setting. Good times. Does anyone know where I can get a print on demand done for the both box sets
You'd have to purchase the PDFs through DM's Guild or DriveThru, and then set them up with a service like Lulu.com to print them on demand.
It's do-able, but not as convenient as simply ordering with a click.
Yeaaa!
I heard this as the opening to CSI Miami.
I have hard copies of the entire set(basic-immortal)
You are indeed fortunate. I've got all the books, but some of my boxed sets have been destroyed over the years.
Thank you, very good.
Thanks! I appreciate it.
I hope you go back and do the Moldvay Basic set, it's different than Mentzer. My first set and favorite.
I plan to go all the way back to 74. I started with BECMI because that's where my journey as a gamer personally started.
I mean no disrespect, but that is the single most ridiculously loud intro I have ever seen on any youtube video, ever.
I'll tone it down on future videos.
Very nice I'm glad I found this channel
Thanks. I'm glad you did, too!