Reacting To Reacting to "Smash Is Broken" (Heeew's Full Series)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Heeew's "Smash Is Broken" series is an all time Super Smash Bros. classic, and a popular topic for the Smash community to react to. Today I'll be going a step further and reacting to some of those reactions, from Coney, Hungrybox, Panda (Little Z and Esam), and Marss, with a brief cameo from Alpharad. Should be a good time!
The featured content:
Heeew: / heeew
Coney (Smash 64): • Remembering the BROKEN...
Hungrybox (Smash 64): • SMASH 64 WAS BROKEN (R...
Hungrybox (Melee): • MELEE IS BROKEN (React...
Coney (Brawl): • She RUINED an ENTIRE S...
Hungrybox (Brawl): • BRAWL WAS BROKEN (Reac...
Coney (Smash 4): • She RUINED an ENTIRE S...
Hungrybox (Smash 4): • SMASH 4 WAS BROKEN (Re...
Panda (Smash 4): • Was Smash 4 REALLY Bro...
Hungrybox (Ultimate): • SMASH ULTIMATE IS BROK...
Marss (Ultimate): • The Most BROKEN Moves ...
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Main channel: / mockrocktv
Twitter: / mrmockrock
Patreon: / mockrock
Twitch: / mockrocktwitch
Business email: MockRockYT@gmail.com
Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock
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TimeBolt: I used TimeBolt on this video to massively increase the speed of editing, it's a program that essentially creates your jump cuts for you. I consider it to be one of the best things I've ever bought and highly recommend it for tons of applications on TH-cam, so I asked the team to join their affiliate program. Use my affiliate link and coupon code to support the channel AND get a discount on some fantastic software, it's a true win-win!
mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart...
Coupon code: MOCKROCK
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Music used:
"MockRock is Here (Relaxed)" - MockRock
"MockRock is Here" - MockRock
All original music, as well as its stems, are available for download to patrons, TH-cam members, and Twitch subscribers.
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0:00 - Smash 64
14:23 - Melee
28:24 - Brawl
55:43 - Smash 4
1:32:55 - Ultimate
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Thanks for watching!
#SmashUltimate #SuperSmashBros #Nintendo - เกม
![[1] Forizen1 Smash Ultimate ID: 5KFW8 ⚡ 2v2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XL5FW62Ozc8/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching everyone! These videos come from some great content creators and as long as this video is, there's a *lot* from their originals that I cut out. They likewise usually show only a small part of Heeew's original videos, so there's a lot more to watch if you enjoyed this, check out the links below for those!
Disclaimer: this video features Rushdown Revolt, a game which I've done compensated work for in the past. The developers had no influence over this video's creation.
*Main channel:* th-cam.com/users/mockrocktv
*Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock
*Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock
*Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch
*Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock
*TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/
*Heeew:* th-cam.com/users/Heeew
*Coney (Smash 64):* th-cam.com/video/7MMboZknVyY/w-d-xo.html
*Hungrybox (Smash 64):* th-cam.com/video/gd4IO0AeR44/w-d-xo.html
*Hungrybox (Melee):* th-cam.com/video/mLaOJ_qMdTM/w-d-xo.html
*Coney (Brawl):* th-cam.com/video/IUtJHzq9U_A/w-d-xo.html
*Hungrybox (Brawl):* th-cam.com/video/5eBmcVjg_ss/w-d-xo.html
*Coney (Smash 4):* th-cam.com/video/IUtJHzq9U_A/w-d-xo.html
*Hungrybox (Smash 4):* th-cam.com/video/QG34JehWHuU/w-d-xo.html
*Panda (Smash 4):* th-cam.com/video/_1KRrfbCdYo/w-d-xo.html
*Hungrybox (Ultimate):* th-cam.com/video/1Sk6URxWO3c/w-d-xo.html
*Marss (Ultimate):* th-cam.com/video/KajpX8OGW7k/w-d-xo.html
46:38
Didn’t expect the kid from Home Alone to be good at Smash Bros. Brawl.
@@DoMorrMusic lol or tall minion
Coney's point at 1:03:10 really spoke to me. Myself and my twin fall right into that bracket of mid-level play, and I picked up Cloud and Roy when they came out bc I thought they looked pretty cool. I had NO CLUE how hard maining Cloud carried me, and I didn't even know how busted uair was at the time.
Edit: on the topic of Cloud's recovery, I know that pain all too well, because my aforementioned twin, who was basically the only person I regularly played Sm4sh with, was a Jigglypuff main. Even when he wasn't playing Jigglypuff, he had a very good feel of the timing for most characters' fairs and bairs to carry you right off the stage and often right into the blast zone, if you were bad at airdodging like I was.
Obviously Melee's implementation of the C stick is awful, but there's another enormous problem with it that I don't see brought up ever, and that's how much you have to play single player modes in order to unlock everything that's necessary for competitive play. You have to complete Classic mode with all characters, and finish all the events (events that, at least for me when I did them, were pretty hard). It takes a pretty significant amount of time, and by the time you're done, and you've finally unlocked everything and are starting to play the game more seriously, you've been conditioned and taught to not use the c stick because it's pointless. It makes it so all the single player modes teach genuinely terrible lessons to players, and when you consider how much you have to play the single player modes, it means you'll have to undo those lessons, and break habits you never should've had in the first place.
I'm a fan of how it could input both smash and tilt inputs - I think that feature makes _much_ more sense as a single stick input than a stick & button input and wish it made its way over to Ultimate alongside dedicated smash & tilt buttons. Though yeah, C-stick solely controlling the camera in single-player was really dumb
I’m pretty sure that requiring to play the other modes to unlock characters and stages has often been praised by casuals. But now it’s not really all that important anyways cuz most people play on slippi which has everything by default
@@LARAUJO_0 it can do both in ultimate too
can't you just download save file if you're using a wii and just copy from memory card for gamecube?
@@LARAUJO_0 I'd rather just have one or the other. I'd kinda just like to smash the stick to do what I want. Like especially for DACUs, which I guess didn't a problem for Melee and Ult players.
"If all you idiots would stop clicking on this kind of thing we would make simpler thumbnails" Is now one of my favorite MockRock quotes
I love this guys jokes.
Not from this video, but “That’s like asking which Paul brother is less of a tool.” is a great one.
That quadruple mach tornado is one of the most beautiful things I've seen in smash, I have to agree.
It’s pure artistry
I love how each one of them did it for different reasons too
it's gorgeous
Watching Mockrock commentate and observe Coney makes me realize they make a good combo.
Mockrock knows a lot about the mechanics of smash while Coney knows a lot about the social and tournament scene of smash.
To put it simply: Coney is street smart in smash while MockRock is book smart. The two could play off of each other pretty well, I’d say.
This is old as fuck but ur literally so fucking right like I'm 10000% positive if they started a channel together it would be the best channel on smash TH-cam
Collab?!
Both of them commentating a set?
But who's money smart⁉️ It makes them more intelligent‼️
@@austinfletchermusicHbox or Alpharad. They know how to make content and make money.
For bestowing upon us BaldRock, this is the greatest series on all of TH-cam.
It took me far too long realize this meant MockRock editing himself to be bald in the thumbnail to mimic Esam lmao
I still remember unlocking Isabelle in Ultimate. This was the night of release so I was still getting used to the controls, and I went offstage to edgeguard the computer after knocking it offstage, and it pulled a fishing rod stage spike and killed me at like 30% because of how unprepared I was. I think maybe a toggle to give character unlocks an "new player" or "returning player" mode would've been fun, but then again, keeping the unlocks difficult only for the release window, the time where the vast majority of people playing the game would be returning players who have a handle on the genre, and then making them easier by the time more casual players started to get the game in their hands might have been intentional.
I went over to my friend's house SPECIFICALLY to help him unlock characters, only to get fucked repeatedly by every CPU i went up against, it was hilarious
Especially so it released so close to Christmas, which is when most kids would probably be getting their hands on the game. By then it'd been patched, so they didn't have to deal with the harder unlock battles.
i hated it so much i had to do all that shitty unlocking. I was so happy when a glitch was found to unlock all characters in like 30 minutes. They really shouldn't be locked in the first place
@@Hugo_Prolovski
Uh, there are people who actually hated how smash 4 had very few unlockable characters (8 in the wii u version i think) and I kinda get that since it gives you satisfaction when you unlock them so the unlockables in ultimate may have been a response to that. I like to unlock things in games and aside from the difficulty early on in ultimate it wasn't so bad.
@@Hugo_Prolovski unlockable characters is good, it motivates you to keep playing and realistically, the feeling of unlocking is very ok
The thing about Brawl is while it technically had a long development time, most of that time went into the Subspace Emissary, which was basically an entire game in and of itself. There's even some unfinished stuff in SSE due to time crunch, there's a video called Subspace Emissary Oddities which shows some of them.
Which brawl excelled in, because Subspace truly was the best single player experience in all of the smash games
I think that a lot of Brawl's competitive problems are the result of balancing around Subspace. Chain throws weren't tested enough because you can't grab Subspace enemies. The low hitstun prevents you from getting destroyed by the large groups. Camping doesn't do anything, so Meta Knight has to play fast and aggressive.
@@givecamichips
Wow. I never ever thought about Subspace. It makes a lot of sense. It’s obvious that so much effort went into SSE, but I never put together that it would take a toll on the rest of the game.
Except tripping, that’s was an idiotic choice at best.
47:28 I actually tried to make a “Best Moves in Each Slot in Smash History” list, done off the top of my head with not much in-depth research, and yeah, Brawl Meta Knight was either the winner or contender for nearly every category. His sword is STUPID lol
@2fast 4u the inkling?
@@Magic_Ice THE INKLING!
That actually seems pretty interesting to do. Off the top of my head, I'd probably give down b to Melee Shine just because Brawl Meta Knight's down b wasn't all that prevalent as a ridiculous tool compared to his other specials and aerials. Aside from that, all the other specials are Brawl Meta Knight. Up air and down air as well. Surprisingly I wouldn't say any go to Smash 4 Bayo just because every category that she had a really good move in, she gets edged out by Brawl MK (or shine).
@@Jason_Ultimate Bayo’s kit works well when it’s all combined and her movement helps a lot. Individually nothing is super broken (besides up and down B) but combined it’s all broken
@@Jason_Ultimate For the record, here were the categories I did not put Meta Knight in, and who won in that category (again, not much in-depth research was put in, so I very well could have missed something)
Jab (Melee Fox)
Forward Tilt (Ult Mythra)
Up Tilt (64 Kirby)
Dash Attack (Ult Palutena)
Forward Smash (Ult Little Mac)
Up Smash (Ult Min Min)
Forward Air (Melee Sheik)
Back Air (Melee Jigglypuff)
Down Air (64 Kirby)
Side Special (Smash 4 Sonic)
Down Special (Melee Fox)
Love how MockRock transitions with his facial expressions when watching the Coney sections. One moment he’s cracking a big smile and laugh, but when he’s finished laughing the next frame he’s back to a neutral or deadpan expression lol
Noticed after many rewatches. This one’s pretty good
The funny thing about the Z in Little Z not being pronounced "zed" is that's how you pronounce the letter in Australia too
no sir, lived in australia for like 13 years, no ome says zed
atleast in perth
@@table8352 maybe not you but Z and then do say it
Them*
@@table8352 wait little z lives there 2 i think
I like how it sounds like you're having a conversation with these people, especially Hungrybox.
For real, before it switched to Hbox I actually thought it was two people co-commentating. lmao
This whole compilation was a fun watch and trip down memory lane, but I especially appreciated the edits during the Brawl segment, like the Hbox callout at 31:36, the GimR clip at 42:20, and the mach tornado trauma at 46:30; good stuff all around.
I think I speak for a good chunk of the second channel's viewerbase when I say that I really do appreciate the extra effort that you put into the editing and visuals on these reaction videos compared to most others in the genre.
i honestly wish you got more recognition. who knows, maybe Coney or another SmashTuber would react to your content (like the best of each move).
Appreciate it, but tbh I lost interest in "recognition" from other content creators a long time ago, that's a pretty common thing I've heard brought up from TH-camrs I've spoken with. This is a fairly small, casual channel and I'm quite happy with how it's progressing, thank you for the thought though!
Eh with TH-camrs you never know where they pop up
Like randomly stumbling across you in the comments to the axis of awesome “we are so young” music video
"Reacting to Mockrock reacting to us reacting to Smash 4 is broken"
@@gamelon3554 would be a banger video tbh
@@shaan__realagreed
1:35:50 Incineroar revenge maxes out after 20% absorbed (2 or 3 weak hits)
Source: Incin main
40:36 DACUS isn't actually exclusive to Etalus in Rivals, though being able to cancel out of the active frames at any time into an Ustrong is unique to Etalus. Rivals almost universally makes the first 3 frames of your dash attack cancelable into Ustrongs, with the distance you travel being determined by how much horizontal speed your dattack gives on the offset. This particularly gives characters like Ranno, Clairen, Olympia, and Pomme really good DACUS's that allow them to slide across the stage extremely far.
The only exception to DACUS being universal is Wrastor, who can't do it both due to him lacking grounded strong attacks but also due to his dattack being coded to go off ledges, which prevents you from being able to do a DACUS in the first place
I think the reason for Melee Marth's grab is that step forward he does, it's a huge step forward and you barely see it in gameplay but it extends his range forward by a ton
I've seen Melee apologists also point out that the reason for the infamous Yoshi example is because Yoshi leans so far forward that his head hitbox is actually what causes him to be grabbed. Still doesn't excuse it from being possible at all in my opinion but it's worth pointing out.
No they put kirby’s up throw removing all jumps on purpose. They put in code to make it that way.
...Awww...
Ok… but _why?_
@@FedoraKirb ……..Because……..
@@Magic_Ice Understandable, have a good day.
Because Melee :)
That laugh at 1:18:13 shook me to my bones. MockRock evil?
Fun fact, I tried doing another take of that and literally couldn't replicate it, that's all the evil you get lol
Zanza Rock
@@MockRockTalk
Regarding your point of you couldn't find anyone else defending tripping in Brawl. I found this on the SmashWiki page for Tripping.
"On the other hand, in rare cases random tripping can also make it slightly more difficult to read an opponent; a fighter may read an opponent's action and input a punish, but instead, the opponent trips, keeping them out of the reach of the attack."
Frankly, I don't think this is much of a defense, but still, it's kinda funny.
I think it would be funny if you made a "The best of each move" video for Brawl and the entire video was just Meta Knight's move set.
Not true
Metaknights jab was shit
No shot Meta Knight's up tilt is better then Snake's in brawl
@@TheWrathAbove most of them would be meta knight as honorable mention or straight up the best
-F tilt
-down tilt
-f smash (idk bout this but pretty sure it just a transcendence longer version of ultimate meta knights)
-down smash
-dair
-up air
-mach tornado
-shuttle loop
-I might be missing something...
Tbh the fact meta knight has this amount of honorable mention makes me question of how they somehow still ablr to make smash4 bayo
Down throw is another
25:00 It always surprises me whenever I hear how much people use the c-stick. Idk why, but it's never really made it's way into my play-style. Maybe because I started with Brawl, and semi-regularly had to play with Wiimotes instead of Gamecube controllers.
I'll admit my "playstyle" is mostly just being bad, so that might also be part of it.
Yeah I was similar, and then spent a lot of time playing Smash on the 3ds (didn't have a wii u) so I didn't use a c-stick there either. I had to learn how to use it in Ultimate.
A lot of stuff you can't do without the cstick. Think about doing a retreating rising fair... you need to use the cstick for it. It's especially bad in melee because there's a lot of tech with the cstick with SDI and ASDI stuff
@@Nowel22222 See, up until very recently, I *didn't* think about that sort of thing. I don't have tap jump on, and I never cared enough to practice getting my thumb from the face buttons to the c-stick fast enough for those techniques to work well. It's only within the last few months, since I started paying attention to competetive again, that I've switched my jump button to the left trigger, which is when I finally started feeling like I could reasonably use the c-stick.
@@Nowel22222 to me outside of smash attacks I’ve never seen the C-stick as useful enough to get around to he delay between jumps to attack (not helped by the fact I can’t get the short hop timing right so rely on the shorthop attack input) and feeling like I just lost a slight bit of control
The nerf to mac’s jab is still so damn sad. Only other character with a notable jab was bowser jr for being able to kill (swordies are good but subjectively less interesting) and that was the car rapid punching with boxing gloves. Let that sink in. The boxer character was not allowed to have his jab, but a car is allowed to kill you by punching…
Little Mac is one of my favorite characters in the game and it sucks that they gave up on him so fast.
@@buttlet2226tbh I really don’t like little Mac, I find just really predictable and annoying/spammy but I do think Mac should get more utility from his jab like the gentleman jab being a combo tool and the rapid jab being a good kill move. I hope he gets reworked in smash 6 to make him more well rounded and fun to fight/play
@@SenderBender63
Honestly, my love for Mac is purely because I love the Punch Out games.
Otherwise, I probably couldn’t care less about him.
I think they could dial down his overall strength a lot and make his dodges really good, so he can play like he did in his, constantly dodge and punish what the opponent did.
Kirby's up tilt and down air in 64 is better than 40% of all fighters in Smash
Honestly, if Smash Bros ever gave Bowser his iconic punch attack from Bowser's Inside Story, that would be a perfect excuse to include chargeable tilts.
How would you even charge a tilt
@@Yorkshire42069same way Multiversus did it
The thing I find hilarious about brawl is they tried to make it less competitive by removing cool movement and having bad balance and then the competitive scene just was like no you left in loads of jank: found loads of movement and made strategies to let other top tiers try and beat meta knight
46:24 The pure despair and trauma in just that “I had no answer” speaks as much as some entire videos
Just a minor correction; Brawl didn't have a balance team, it wasn't until Smash 3DS/Wii U. Brawl was also balanced by Sakurai.
I looked this up during the video to confirm, supposedly there was a very small balance team Sakurai consulted with in Brawl
@@MockRockTalk and he just confirmed this in his brawl video, it was a team of 4 testers lmao
I remember playing Smash Ultimate and getting to unlock Lucina, who posed somewhat of a threat considering I was playing as Inkling, who I had only played as for like 2 matches. Roy however, dismantled me in less than 30 seconds.
A friend of mine, whilst trying to unlock the few characters he missed, lost to Rosalina in about 3 seconds and proceeded to throw and break his Pro Controller
Dedede murdered me in less than 10 seconds.
27:00 It was me, I was the guy in my friend group who developed a pocket Pichu just for stylin when I was feeling myself. It was and still is immensely satisfying.
30:30 What if there was some kind of grab counter? "This character has been grabbed 3 in short succession, they're immune for a bit."
I just realized, Smash could totally have a throw tech like in Street Fighter.
But it maybe could also interfere with combos that have grabs in the middle of them, so idk, just an idea.
23:56 I believe it was intentional, they really did not want Kirby to be good after 64
50:01 This whole dilemma would've been solved if tournaments were split into two main parts: one with Meta Knight only (or at least legal) and one with Meta Knight (and preferably chaingrabs too) banned
Sounds like a good idea until you realize how much extra work TOs gotta do.
47:50 I find it funny that with brawl they never ended up banning him widely, even though they had to implement so many limitations to what he can do, but with ultimate one tech came out with Steve and people just decided the best course of action would be to immediately ban him.
Bayonetta was the Azathot of smash.
To explain that to anyone who doesn't know what that means: basically the Yu-Gi-Oh equivalent of getting witch timed.
God, screw you for making me remember that format
Wasn't Armageddon Knight also a one card Azathot?
God, I gotta say I miss Pre-Patch Pichu in Ultimate (I call him P3 for short, but if you want to call him Pre-chu that works too.) It was so much fun watching Pichu zip around and pummel the other fighters to death in seconds. And I think part of the appeal is that it's Pichu. This character who's sole existence in Pokemon is to be adorable, and to simulate raising and nurturing a Pokemon until its ready to fight as a proper Pokemon, just slapped into a fighting game to pad the roster as an easy mimic of Pikachu, and all of a sudden it comes back after nearly two decades and starts slapping around warriors and world-breakers and having fun doing it.
I agree. They didn’t have to need Pichu into the dirt the way they did.
So many other characters who were being screamed about dodged their nerfs for so long.
I'm assuming that the c-stick camera in Melee single player and training was for cinematic purposes. Like the tutorial video in Melee or the trailer for the game. They may have left it in for some cool photo shots since Melee is the first game with the camera mode, but because of its rushed nature, it was never fully realized, stuck in a side mode instead. Just a theory.
I like how moments like 25:55 feel like you're reacting with them. This moment actually sounds like you are directly talking to HBox and not just reacting to what he's saying after the fact.
53:50 Well, he's named META Knight for a reason.
If custom moves in Smash 4 had been freely available from the start, I wonder if there would have been discussion about using them to balance the game.
Obviously, some would have to be banned, and that would get contentious. But if you could quickly swap customs from the character select menu, and bottom- or mid-tier characters had customs that actually made them decent, I think it would have been hard to say you can't use ANY of them.
True, especially Ganondorf Is really balanced in His custom moves
Okay but could you imagine Diddy's Glide-Tossing in Ultimate? That would actually be sick.
Also shell sliding on squirtle would be sick
@@chordalharmony Yes, agreed, that would be awesome
+dacus + good waveland + ledgedashes + wavedashes + shield dropping. game would be soooo much better
These video thumbnails are SO good, looks like you have fun making them as well!
41:31 I would actually argue casual players were on average more opposed to the idea than competitive players because they wouldn’t know how to deal with it
I cannot imagine how difficult this was to edit and put together, but it's a great watch. Thanks for this!
MockRock watching Coney is some of my favorite content.
1:29:58
The custom moves have me thinking,
Imagine a Smash game with EX special moves like a Street Fighter game.
Cloud practically has EX moves already.
That’d be a cool way to have custom special moves as powered up versions of regular special moves.
But that’d definitely scare away casual folk perhaps and be a huge, undertaking to implement a new mechanic like that.
Learning that dacus was in early sm4sh builds but got removed makes me sad
Reminds me of how shield dropping was in the ultimate beta but was removed, makes me sad they just got rid of cool mechanics that people enjoy when they are there and casuals don't care if it's there or not
The way customs worked at tourneys was that someone would bring a "master" 3DS with everything unlocked (super easy to do with PowerSaves) and transfer characters to the Wii U.
Having to hear smash 4 slander physically hurts me
I love that game
I love all Smash games (SSB4 included) but I'm not blind to its flaws such as the janky Rage mechanic and lacking single player modes.
Still, Smash 4 has a place in my heart.
I love it too
Super smash brothers for wii u makes me feel discomfort to an astronomical degree. The convulsions I experience from that game are violent. My skin crawls and my eyes bleed to the mere thought of that horrid game. What have you done?......
I feel like no amount of slander will out-do Brawls. But also it’s just some people online, like what you wanna.
The true anger and bitterness in that fuck you Kevin is so perfect.
Although I've already seen these videos hundreds of times, I really enjoyed everything else you added on top of the points the original videos made. The whole thing was both informative and very entertaining and I keep learning new stuff about my favorite game series so that was great! I hope your channels get more popular in the future as you deserve it
Pac Man footstools genuinely look like the most painful combos in the smash series. I mean, Mario is in pure torture and agony right there.
Yooooooo!!!
He got the entire series on here!!
Also, I just love the thumbnail XD
Baldrock reigns supreme!
15:26 it looks so crazy mainly because marth lunges a little bit forward when grabbing someone
DACUS actually makes a lot of sense, provided there's some grammar included: Dash Attack, Cancel, Up Smash
It also makes sense if you think "dash attack, cancel WITH up smash"
Meta Knight v Bayonetta always strikes me as a very confusing comparison. Meta Knight was the most-used character in top 8 100% of the time at Brawl majors, and it was never close, and Meta Knight was almost always solo-mained, AND this was after a substantial number of ruleset changes meant to nerf Meta Knight's most overpowered strategies were implemented. Bayonetta had some strong showings that make her seem just as bad if you cherrypick something like Frostbite 2018, but if you look at the entire PGRv5 season, the only players who were winning supermajors with Bayonetta were MkLeo and Tweek, who both used Bayonetta as just one character in their large stable of counterpicks. The fact that the last supermajor was Evo 2018 feels like it really altered people's perceptions of how dominant Bayonetta actually was.
I have fairly limited knowledge of CONEY and his content, but from what I have gathered, I believe him saying Bayo is worse is caused by game health at mid to high levels, which Meta Knight didn’t actually dominate, unlike Bayo. Meta knight’s advantage has skill and game knowledge to back it instead of Bayo’s touch of death combos that required a single neutral win to achieve entire stocks. This puts Bayo in a weird position where top level players could deal with her due to better matchup knowledge like SDI, yet lower level players would find it difficult to win because they would lose 2 neutral interactions per game. Meta Knight by contrast, still put emphasis on winning MANY neutral interactions, so at mid to high levels, players could still compete with other characters, as every neutral win was important for damage instead of the stock, for both players. Plus, camping doesn’t seem to be as prominent at non-top level play, severely nerfing Meta Knight’s insane defensive game plan.
TL;DR Meta Knight somehow ended up in a spot where he could dominate top level, yet was just an average character at other levels, where Bayo killed the scene at mid levels by being a hit per stock character.
The difference was that bayo was the only character who had such a consistent zero to death combo despite di. It made her more frustrating to play against, and it didn't help that movement options in brawl were nerfed in sm4sh so it always felt like a slow burn to come back, but when you have only 2 stocks to utilize and bayo just takes one in 30 seconds, it makes the game more frustrating and toxic.
@@666blaziken people always bring up how bayo had consistent 0 to death combos regardless of DI there were never more than 4 players in the word capable of doing that. often people just seriously never learned how to DI bayo because in ultimate people still get 0 to deathed by bayo.
MK is such a better character its not even close.
@@ubadman1 bayo still did a chunk of damage with her basic combos at lower levels, and she could still air camp and recover very easily, which made mid level plays against her annoying at the very least, and I've had my fair share of players 0-death me with bayo.
I said it in the original Ultimate is Broken video, and I’ll say it again.
Sakurai straight up said Peach and Daisy’s moves would behave differently when she was revealed. The E3 video says, and I quote, “she plays similar to Peach, but her moves behave differently” and that was a straight up lie.
He didn't lie. Daisy has flower effects instead of heart effects, and she uses a blue Toad instead of a red Toad. These are valid changes. Very valid
@@grunkleg.3110 I feel like this is meant to be sarcastic, but just in case it isn't, let me clarify.
These do not change the way the moves BEHAVE. None of Daisy's moves are functionally different, only visually.
No he didn't. He actually said that Peach and Daisy had "Almost the same specifications" (moves, abilities etc.). Which is exactly what she ended up like. Nintendo America goofed up.
@@memoryman3586 Okay so some of us were lied to. I hate this country more and more every day.
My comments keep getting eaten by youtube but yay new video! :D
Watching the Smash 64 stuff made me so goddamn nostalgic. I got that game as soon as it came out and I LOVED IT SO MUCH. My cousin Vinny and I played that for HOURS at a time, and I also got a GameCube specifically for Melee and then played that for EVEN MORE HOURS AND DAYS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS
1:17:26 don't blame Little Z for not knowing Zelda's down throw -> up air combo name, but I know the Zelda players were trying to call it finger bang for the longest time. I wish I was kidding. ^^;;;
I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed
Watching this after Steve is eerie
it's ironic how smash was at first just a party game then completely embraced competitive play in melee intentionally or not
I still argue that the pre-patch Lvl 9 CPUs should've been unlockable as lvl 10s or somethin. Maybe after World of Light or somethin
1:17:00 this is the funniest part of the whole video
Canada moment.
For the bit about approaching challengers, uh...
I just stood there and charged fsmashes because they eventually just walked into it. And this was on release XD
Whenever I hear mockrock say "zed" instead of z, I experience physical pain.
Not my problem
Thumbnail MockRock will always be a sight to behold
I also really enjoyed Ultimate's Hard AI's for unlocking. I'm normally a super casual guy who only plays Level 3 CPUs on my own, but then when I got forced to fight harder AIs to get characters (and won) it both pushed me to b better and pushed me to try harder opponents cause I was actually doing better that I would in my safe zone.
I think a better solution than just taking them out would've been to put in a "you lost xx number of times, do you want use to give you this character?" Option, similar to how other Nintendo and other games give you the choice after enough failures. Super casuals would have no issue, and people who tried that many times but enjoyed the rush could say no each time and still keep going for it.
When I saw you talking about this on Twitter I honestly thought it was a commentary about react content on TH-cam. I was a little surprised when i got into the video and it was what it was. You added enough of your own voice though which is always what I want out of a good reaction video. Your content is always a pleasure to watch
My mains throughout smash
Brawl: mained Lucario and secondary was Ike. Lucario was such a fun character purely because I loved him as a Pokémon and still do, and the aura was so much fun. I had Ike as my secondary cause I loved the big sword and power, and I didn’t even know what fire emblem then.
Smash 4: mained little Mac and secondary was bowser. I loved little mac’s simplicity and I mained him to keep the tradition of a good friend of mine who went to the army. I had bowser as a secondary because his game feel was so satisfying.
Ultimate: main Little Mac and Roy. Secondaries are King K. Rool, ganondorf, Link (to an extent), and Corrin. Don’t need to elaborate on Little Mac, Roy is basically my high tier choice, King K. Rool and Ganondorf have punchiest feeling moves (also I live using the term “move King K. Rool, you’re like a continent!”), I don’t have the ability to do the epic bomb drop combos with Link but I still love him for even the simpler combos, and I will forever vouch that Corrin is a good character.
26:16 This is an outright CRIME. Look, I can accept some janky hitboxes, honestly a little bit of that probably makes the game more entertaining than if it was super precise, but they should at least have some accord to the model. This is an absolute travesty, it doesn't even TRY to account for the model.
Heeew's videos on the matter were good, they highlight a lot of jank but in a way that clearly isn't meant to roast the games or call them bad. I've played every Smash game and a lot of these were things I was never really truly aware of.
15:22 this one, also stumped me for a while but if you look at Marth’s foot that doesn’t move then you really see why it’s broken
I genuinely miss the old CPUs in Ultimate, the new CPUs are so bad, to the point I don’t enjoy playing against them
1:28:14 there is always Trophy Rush, which gives you a lot and it's just fun to break stuff.
1:36:45 at least they can make for some good stories, like "Remember kids, back in my day, those CPU's were *sooooooo* hard. Aye, good times."
24:34 falcon's gentle man is amazing, I love using that move. However getting it consistently is a nightmare is NTSC, but in pal, it's less harder because they buffed it.
i love when good channels with under 100k make videos that are over an hour long, theyre always so great
(things that arent over an hour long are good too)
The reason why they made random tripping a thing is because this was the first smash game that introduced water mechanics. And everyone knows your not supposed run in pools.
💀💀💀💀
1:17:27
Actually this one did have a name, the Zeldas called it the “finger bang.”
I coulda gone my whole life without knowing this information
the coney mach tornado rant was beautiful
oh my god the fournado clip made me laugh so hard, especially the explanation of the four different reasons for them to use the move
actually golden
No matter how much I ever have to wade through Brawl will always be my fav smash game for its feeling of celebrating gaming as a whole.
I’ve heard some people defend tripping.
The people said that competitive smash isn’t how you are supposed to play the game and if you play the game competitively, then you are wrong.
That makes no sense though because even in casual play tripping sucks
@@GuentersHoerspielstube Exactly but i mean hey, that is what Andre from GameXplain said.
@@Magic_Ice
There's one thing I could find on SmashWiki that states an advantage, but even that's a stretch. I am NOT saying it makes it good by any means, though.
"On the other hand, in rare cases random tripping can also make it slightly more difficult to read an opponent; a fighter may read an opponent's action and input a punish, but instead, the opponent trips, keeping them out of the reach of the attack."
The Up to death thing with Chrom/Ikr was only patched with Chrom you can still do it with Ike.
Ike's sacrificial up-B actually did get nerfed too in the same patch, just not as heavily as Chrom so it still works a lot of the time.
The fucking Little Zed, cut to Canadian flag killed me
I had to watch this video over 3 days but I loved it! Amazing Video and very fun to watch
Damn kinda sad how we went immediately went to multi verses rather than to brawlhalla when he talked about landing aerials. 😕
(54:30) PAL had a delayed release, and as far as I can read, had some imperfection fixed. No balance changes though. But the internet doesn't care about the PAL version anyway.
i loved this video @MockRockTalk, it was really cool to hear your commentary about every smash game in the series in a single video like this.
while i have a copy of every smash game that i could play at any time, i consider myself more of a melee person, idk much about competitive ult, so it was interesting to hear about the various balance patches and changes over the last 3-4 years that ultimate has had, how ultimate compares to the balance of brawl and wii u, etc.
i am still of the opinion that melee has the most fun balance, it's not like ultimate or P+ where you could feasibly win a tournament with the worst character in the game if you really dedicated yourself to it, but the fact that like 1/3 the cast (everyone below g&w) is just completely not viable gives you an opportunity to stunt on your opponent, like it's funny as hell when m2k goes pichu and hands someone's ass to them, or when n0ne goes on unranked with ganondorf and does some of the juiciest gan0ne combos on PissLicker69 (combos that wouldn't even be possible in other games)
i also just think that the smaller input delay, and faster character falling, faster movement speed, more responsive inputs, and also just objectively better netcode, make melee a significantly more fun game to play, for me at least. ultimate just feels horrible, like swimming through honey, for the first 20 minutes whenever i play until my brain adjusts to the input delay, and then i realize that my already slow reaction time, combined with the slower movement speed, slower fall speed, input delay, etc. all that stuff makes it impossible for me to combo like i can in melee, i just can't predict their DI so everything becomes 50/50 read
that being said, i deeply admire the people who play ultimate competitively, who have dedicated themselves to that craft, and people like gimr who have been working to raise the skill ceiling of that game (and also to expand the competitive smash scene in general)
there's a reason melee and P+ are the only smash games i play on a regular basis, but i really do love every smash game, including brawl, including smash 4, each game has their own special charm.
as a player of all five games (eight including 3DS, P+/PM, and HDR), i do feel like the last three iterations of smash have gotten progressively closer and closer together in terms of physics and graphics. i would love to see a more fundamental change to physics and gameplay in smash 6, especially if they pushed it back towards melee-esque gameplay, even just increasing the falling speed, nerfing recoveries, reintroducing ledge hogging, just those three changes would make the game so much more fun to play.
At this point your my fav content creator for smash! And in general
amazing binge watch as always. you’re awesome mockrock!
Why is the thumbnail so good 😭
17:28 Ult Marth has that up air now...
Holy shit I can't believe it took me this long to notice the visual gag in your Smash 4 thumbnail holy fuck that's hilarious
You can’t convince me that some characters in Smash weren’t overpowered on purpose.
this video made me laugh, and very well informed. also coney is funny as hell. love watchin' that dude.
1:01:52
A pikachu main complaining about low profiling….. ironic
That "Fuck you Kevin" got me honestly that caught me off guard it was amazing LOL
Quick question: Will you do any Rivals of Aether content in the future? It’s one of my favorite fighting games of all time, and I would love to see you talk about it a bit more.
My brothers and I grew up on Brawl, our older brother played Meta Knight and pr much only used tornado. Once we got into the competitive scene, we realized he was just a genius
1:04:33 And history repeats itself with Pyra/Mythra
The Captain Falcon Gentleman issue is confirmed to be an oversight. Short version, in the PAL version they found the line of code responsible and changed the variable comparator from "4" to "7".
Long version: when you're in your jab animations, Smash counts how many times you press the A button or release the A button. I call this the "multijab counter". The multijab counter is compared against another number, the "threshold". If you reach the end of Gentleman and your multijab counter is above the threshold, you will automatically do a multijab.
For most characters with multijabs, their threshold is 2n+1, where n = the number of Gentleman hits. Sheik has a 2-hit Gentleman, so her threshold is 5 (at least in theory, I haven't decompiled the code to make sure). Press A, release A, press A again, release A, press A one last time, and your counter is equal to 5; thus you get Sheik's multijab.
Captain Falcon has a 3-hit Gentleman, so his threshold is supposed to be 7. And on PAL it is 7. But on NTSC it's not, it's 4. If you press the A button three times as Captain Falcon, he will reach the end of Jab 3 and his multijab counter will be 5 or 6. That's already be larger than his threshold of 4, so he will move straight to multijab even if you aren't pressing anything anymore.
Why can you sometimes do a Gentleman anyway? For some weird reason the multijab counter can't update during freeze frames. This is the ONLY way to get a Captain Falcon Gentleman on NTSC.
Something I will say is that many melee players (myself included) adore meteor cancelling as a mechanic. Melee has a long list of ways to slowly work your way of disadvantage state (di, sdi, asdi, wiggle out of tumble, etc) and meteor cancelling is possibly one of the most volatile of them all. Something many exclusively-spectators of melee criticize about meteor cancelling is “how much worse it makes meteors in melee,” which is arguably a very good thing. For one, remember that recovery’s in melee are substantially worse than they are in all future titles. Failing to meteor cancel or meteor cancelling too late absolutely spells death to much of the cast at upper mid percents. Another thing to remember is that meteors in melee also accomplish so much more than they generally do in future smash titles (particularly due to their greater combo potential and use against crouch cancelling.) To people who exclusively spectate melee, it does make sense why it might appear less hype, but to many many melee players, a meteor cancel is incredibly hype because of what it effectively stands for: a player was able to react quickly enough during disadvantage state to potentially save themselves from otherwise certain death.
Would you rather have all spikes or all meteors?
19:39
The reason Mr game and watches aerials can't be L canceled is because the game considers them Special moves and you can't Z cancel Special moves
I’m so curious why that is. Like half of Melee’s big jank and laughing points I feel like was what they were going to fix like days before the game was about to release.
13 month development cycle @@buttlet2226