Can you imagine if the movie comes out and RDJ was not even in the movie but they just had him hang around set to conceal the actual actor for Doctor Doom.
Genuinely I'm guessing there's a chance that this was just an elaborate joke and RDJ was just in San Diego for SDCC anyways and they were like 'hey you wanna do something funny?'
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868i wish that was true but there are already reports about him being paid 80+ million & that he came back because the russos did too.. granted every report given to news outlets could be a big inside joke, but i feel like this is too smart for marvel studios to do
The Russos saying that RDJ is playing *the* Victor Von Doom reminds me of Rocksteady claiming that the Arkham Knight was an original character in their press tour prior to the release.
Agreed. There's zero chance he's playing Doom as "Victor Von Doom", he's playing Doom as a Tony Stark variant, 1million percent for sure. The Russos do not care one tiny bit about the actual character they are ruining, they just want to appropriate his iconic suit and character design to sell us more Tony Stark stories. It's a travesty.
@@gayanudugampola8973 that's because the quality of each release has been all over the place since endgame... im not gonna accept the " shut up, don't think, consume, and enjoy this" mentality.
@@troyoboyo17you mentioned during the Spider-Man 4 prewrite that you might make a No Way Home rewrite in the future. Do you still wanna make a video on that? If not, how would you rewrite NWH?
DC started putting comic recs at the end of their trailers for their last few movies. I just cant help but think about how disney would NEVER do something like that. They're so allergic to the source material that got them to where they are today
I’ve been saying that for years. It’s like having little to no knowledge of the Marvel universe is a prerequisite. Did you know Shane Black admitted he didn’t know The Mandarin was Iron Man’s chief nemesis? It’s so EASY to get these movies right.
Critiquing the most obvious stunt casting for a billion dollar franchise isn't being negative. It's being analytical & not just blindly loving whatever is handed, especially when factors like whitewashing are in play
@@qtarokujo5246 in the comics he is white as snow so it dosnt matter who plays him along as it matches his skin tone again why is this a problem when hollywood had been black washing characters
@@darkdog42You realise why that is right? There are so few well known Romani actors because people refuse to cast them and keep casting white people instead. There would be far more famous Roma if they actually got to play prominent Romani characters.
@@DficienC That would be a pretty stupid decision story wise though, everyone wants to see a proper dr doom adaptation, iron mans story is already complete and people don’t want another tony stark thrown in for no reason
@@troyoboyo17 I feel dumb for feeling so confident that that was the direction they were going 😭 I figured that superior iron man was the reason why Spider-Man was so connected to iron man and why daredevil got revealed when he did Biggest fumble they’ve made imo but hopefully they’re cooking up something good
@@troyoboyo17”No symbiotes in the mcu, venom is sony only even though we nodded to him coming to the mcu. We literally cannot have RDJ with the symbiote.” I can only make up strawmen
@@ramgami-7122Let’s just cast a white guy as black panther then. Or an Asian guy as magneto and just say that he’s polish and jewish the whole time even though he clearly isn’t. That’s perfectly fine and not completely stupid, right? It’s an actors job, right?
@@meelsky Been done before. Actors just have to vaguely look like the character they are portraying unless they do a race change (the little mermaid for instance) Off the top of my head, stormfront who is a Nazi in 'The Boys' is portrayed by a Jewish woman. But you don't see anyone complaining because she looks the part... And also, yes, why not cast a white actor? Dr Doom isn't even fully Romani if you want to get specific. He's half of a fictional country's ethnicity. And as I discussed in another comment, Romanis come in ALL colors, just like Latinos can.
@@ramgami-7122 Nationality isn’t ethnicity, he’s Romani and lives in latveria. No, there’s never been an Asian guy cast to play a white jewish man. There have been plenty white guys cast to play black characters, and that was because of extreme racism.
@@ramgami-7122 Are you saying we should be casting white english people to play Latinos? You realise it’s not just about skin tone, right? It’s about racism in the industry and how representation in media affects people.
There’s just no way I can buy into the idea that they’re so heavy handed about reusing RDJ and then they don’t use his face. It just makes no sense. He’s not Daniel day Lewis. There are other actors they can use. So if they aren’t using him to engage with the fact that “WOW HE LOOKS LIKE TONY STARK,” then what even is the point.
Or… (and hear me out) this is only a one time role where after Secret Wars and they cast someone else with the right ethnicity and great acting chops. Huh?
@master-of-many-fandoms2020 hey what about nick furry. Also you people whine about white washing even though it happens far less then you people turning white characters black. Also doctor doom is white like duper white
Imagine this: they spent 80m on RDJ. For that money, they can take an entire group of Romani actors, give them acting lessons and pick the best one, and still have money to spare. Heck they could make a reality show based on it and lose nothing.
I THINK there's an interesting story in there somewhere - id love to see a story where doom comes in, sees a statue of tony stark, realises his face could garner him endless amounts of trust and uses it for whatever ends he decides on. The crazy evil manipulation he could do would be so on brand and so interesting, I just hope they do something interesting with it rather than a gimmick.
If I had a nickel for every time the MCU whitewashed a Romani character, I’d have three nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it sucks that it happened thrice.
Oh but rest assured we are going forward with the IDF actress as the Mossad agent for the MCUs first Jewish hero in a movie. Great to know the priorities lie in military propaganda
@umjammerlammy9993 you know you have to join the miltary if you're from isreal right. Also, mee geussing you support. hamas eich is a terrorist organization, which wants henaside not just against hews but gays as well
I actually revisited Books of Doom a few days before the announcement and words cannot describe how excited I was when they revealed the title of Avengers 5 was “Doomsday”, only to be filled with absolute crushing dread and disappointment when RDJ stepped onto the stage.
The best part of Deadpool and Wolverine was that this was the first MCU movie I can visualize in my head as pages from a comic book. Like every scene, every bit of dialogue, I just picture with the drawing style of a comics issue.
@@comicalcosmonaut959 fair, I will say it was really fun and I think the Deadpool movies are great examples of how sometimes ripping a character straight from the comics can be a good thing, and also that reinvention can also be very fun.
When I saw he was being casted as Doom, my first thought was that it seemed desperate. After I thought about it for an hour, I still found it desperate. Let’s see how I feel after this video.
The only way I could see this really "working" is having RDJ be the MCU's version of a Doombot, where instead of being an actual robot they're brainwashed people- this version being the Iron Man of the real Doom's universe. It'd be the... least bad way to open up the door for RDJ's return while still being easy cred for Doom
Doctor Doom is my favourite Marvel villain and such a complex character with a fantastic rivalry with Reed Richards (pun intended). Though I LOVE RDJ, and he's a phenomenal actor, I do worry if this casting will affect how they adapt Doom since his rivalry with Reed and Latverian/Romani heritage, which are both quintessential aspects of his character. Regardless, Im willing to give this a chance and Im excited to see Doctor Doom return to the big screen again, but Im still very adamant about this casting. They could explore a solid story about Tony being his own worst enemy and the biggest threat to the multiverse; since the MCU started with RDJ, it feels rather poetic that it would end with him. I do think they can touch on good themes surrounding the power of our choices, as Doom could reflect the juxtaposition of Tony's entire character arc in the MCU since Tony learned humility and what it means to make sacrifices for others because of his experience in Afghanistan and friendship with the Avengers, Doom on the other started out with nothing as a Romani peasant and lost his whole family and had to learn to fend for himself mastering both science and magic and liberating the people of his country and becoming the ruler of Latveria for the better, thus creating this god-complex in Doom and establishing an underlying sense of resentment for others if they disagree with his perspective as shown with his immense pettiness against Reed Richards fueling their iconic rivalry, so there is room for them to explore the parallels between the two. But the problem with that is that no matter how you choose to see Doom as his own character in the MCU despite being played by RDJ, you are still going to look at Doctor Doom and think of Iron Man, which is so disheartening since Doom has hardly anything to do with Iron Man as his own origin, motivation and complex and burning hatred for Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four are what makes Doom one of the most influential villains in fiction. I feel mixed about the casting since they're hyping up this movie by bringing back RDJ. Not to mention, there were better choices out there to play Doom and indeed allow the character to be their own individual villain to truly make a name for themselves, not to mention actually cast a European actor to better portray and tap into Doom's Romani heritage (some of my fan castings included Rufus Sewell, Dominic Rains, Nikolaj Costa Waldu etc...) all without the need of being tied down to a previous MCU character that completed their arc. But like I said, I'm always happy to be proven wrong since RDJ will surely do a great job. Still, since the character has been done terribly in all of his live-action appearances, and this will be the 4th time they will see the character, a lot is riding on them to truly nail Doctor Doom for a whole new generation. Guess Harvey Dent was right: *"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"*
The glass breaking metaphor and the feeling of desperation were both 100% sentiments that came up when I was talking with some of my friends. Regardless of how well Downey may or may not perform in the role, this does not feel like a decision born from carefully laid plans that they've been wanting to use for a while, this felt like throwing darts at a board with assorted "things the audiences like" sticky notes hoping that if they use enough of them it will get butts back in seats. And it is rather ironic given how well Deadpool and Wolverine is doing when Wade literally calls out that maybe this multiverse stuff isn't the right idea in-movie.
You hit the nail on the head with your mum talking to you about it... my mum is not in the 'content-sphere', but even she was like "this seems a bit desperate, I won't be able to see him as anything other than Iron Man" without me even prompting the conversation.
I was just hoping that Dr. Doom would be played by Conner Swindell (from “Barbie”, “Barbarians” & “Sex Education”), who just happens to be a Romani actor himself
THANK YOU! You have no idea how many times people have called me an idiot and pulled out infamous iron man as an argument. I have literally had to pull it off a shelf to show someone what it actually is.
i think they shouldve gone the route of star wars and do crazy intense and long casting sennsions to find and cast someone who's perect for the role and they dont at all have to be well known. thats one of the major problems with fan casting is that it's usually going to be someone popular.
3:33 in regards to the Russos saying RDJ is "The" Doctor Doom my only hope is that they're actually lying and there's more to it. I don't think that's entirely a cope either since I doubt they'd bring back the actor for Iron Man as a different character in the big multiverse event movie and just play it entirely straight with no wrinkles or twist to it. There's also no mention of RDJ being in the Fantastic 4 movie from what I can tell and it'd be weird to make a F4 movie that doesn't have any mention of Doom whatsoever even if he isn't the main villain. I'm still holding out some hope that he is in fact playing a variant and that there'll still be a proper "real" Doom alongside him.
@@tomgu2285 That doesn't mean he'll be a side character he can still be the main villain for one or both of the next avengers movies. I don't even really expect it I just think it'd be a little weird if they didn't pull some other twist when the entire point of this arc has been about alternate universe versions of existing characters.
I hope Feige lets RDJ utilize his dramatic and serious acting abilities. If they make him quip and say endless cringe one liners I won’t like it. In general I hope MCU has villains again that barely, or better yet , never quip
I could see Marvel introducing a Romani Doctor Doom after the Multiverse Saga is over. There may already be a Doom that exists in the 616 universe due to there being a Latveria easter egg in the first episode of Moon Knight.
Marvel is trying to ride off of the Avengers hype because they believe that getting all of the popular superheroes together to fight a greater threat is the way to make money. Something that even DC tried to do with Justice League in the cinematic universe.
As someone who has Romani heritage, Doom is a character close to my heart, while im not super well versed in the Romani culture (my greay grandmother was Romani, and she died when I was pretty young) I find this casting shitty on multiple sides, in terms of the racial aspect of it; it feels so sad to strip that from Doom and twice as sad to take that opportunity away from an actor who is Romani or has Romani ties (I always joked about me playing Doom but its a character I'd genuinely love to play as an actor and someone with that heritage) On the other side of it, no matter what they do with him, he'll be seen as iron man, compared to iron man, viewed through the lens of iron man. I love RDJ and to be honest i think as an actor he could definitely pull off the role, but his casting is a gimmick for THE Marvel supervillain. Doom is gonna be boiled down to the face reveal moment and his whole character will be centred on that unless they go for a Doom that never shows his face
they have to play this straight. no jokes about iron man. even if they do a face reveal, it should be so scarred you can't recognise RDJ. If they're directly adapting Hickman's Secret Wars 2015, what they can do is in the end when his face is final fixed and he's laughing, they can cast the new DOOM
I hope that with the backlash, they just make RDJ's Doom (which is pretty weird to say) a variant because it'd be really hard to convince the audience that this guy (who looks like one of the most recognizable billionaires in the world) hasn't been recognized as such Or, they just go the rhodey route, say one line about it and continue like nothing
Enough people, including myself, are looking forward to this so they will reconsider nothing. Nobody cares about comic book accuracy, Fiege is looking for a way to wheel general audiences back into the storyline of the MCU. RDJ will do that lol
@@jessec.6876so you just like lazy slop? Good for you, but normal people don't like lazy slop. Especially something so lazy as to give someone who's been acting as a hero for well over a decade in the films a whole different character...who's also a villain...in the same universe...
I was initially happy about RDJ as Dr Doom, because I thought it would kinda be based on the mindswap story, but since it's not going to be that, I think they definitely should've reached out to the guy that played him in the Fantastic 4 movies, Julian McMahon, and see if he wanted the role again. I would love to see him as Dr Doom again.
Your theory was literally the same theory I had after the reveal. And then I had the same realization right after: they probably shouldn’t have told us he was coming back.
6:37 I do love that DC seems to understand this issue and is actually working to try to fix it. The Batman released with a 3 pack of Ego, The Long Halloween and Year One, and I genuinely think that’s a great idea to bundle the movies with the books that they’re based on! EDIT 14:34 Spoke too soon!
I still think it's a bit disingenuous to say that RDJ only came back mainly for the big paycheck. He understands Iron Man was a crucial part of turning his career around after his troubled times, and knows the importance of his character and his death. I don't think he would sign off on this without really trusting/ believing in whatever is being done with Doom.
There was a story when RDJ betrayed an actor who played Rhodey in the first Iron Man and it was because of the money(and the actor helped Robert before), so there is a possible dark side in the current events
I think the main cool idea I can see with this casting is that having access to RDJ could also mean he could come back as a version of Iron Man to face off against RDJ’s version of Doom. If he does a good enough job as Doom, I think it would be kind of cool seeing a hero facing off against a completely different villain played by the same actor. It would be like the Captain America fight from Endgame on steroids. But again, that still doesn’t take away from the fact that this is stunt casting and is largely going to ignore the Romani side of the character.
I really hope RDJ does Doom justice just to justify the casting but the russos saying thier was none else feels like a slap to the face to actors everywhere,
This is the first video i see of you and when you said that the MCU doesnt care as much about the comic fans anymore everything clicked, i feel just the same way because its a little said reading these classic stories and just knowing the movies wont be anything like it, amazing video, amazing channel keep up the good work!
It's not like they hate the fans, it's really just a business at this point. If people that like comics can make them money than so be it, but they don't go out of their way to cater to marvel fans
He was literally BORN for the role, he has such a intimidating and authoritative aura in that show. I feel like living in the wrong universe for the fact that he didn't got casted as Dr. Doom, Robert Downey Jr just feels out of place and it's basically a desperate stunt casting.
Before this casting, Cillian Murphy never really struck me as the kind of actor who'd want to commit full-time to a Marvel role for a decade, so we wouldn't have been getting a long-term presence out of him as Doom or any other characters. But the RDJ casting (plus the massive paycheck he's getting for it) all but confirms that they're only using Doom for 2/3 movies back-to-back anyway. So I feel Murphy probably would have been willing to do that (if he'd liked the script, of course) and now it really does feel like a missed opportunity.
The only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing, that gives me 1% hope for this is the fact that it's RDJ. I hope that he wouldn't just do it for the money, though I think it's equally as possible that he just misses the red carpets, premieres, adulation, etc.
Hey Troy, I see a lot of people mention "using the multiverse in interesting ways instead of just cameo central" and while I agree with the take, I'm a little confused on what that would really mean. Would love to see you with a pitch video on how you would've used the multiverse concept with different characters. I hope you see this, I think the video would be interesting, also I wasn't a fan of the casting either, I'm cautiously expectant.
Hey thank you so much for the donation! I think the Multiverse as a concept is great for exploring ideas like the overstimulation of modern day or as a meta commentary on the superhero genre (Everything Everywhere All At Once and Spider-Verse were great for this, I made a video about it a lot time ago but unlisted it since it wasn’t really up to standards), or even just like What If ideas and I don’t feel like the movies have really done anything like that besides Deadpool and Wolverine’s Fox love letter
@@troyoboyo17 no problem! I can see it working as meta commentary on overstimulation 🤔 you're suggesting a plot like "the same stories keep happening over and over, nothing really matters, examine the point of all this, break the wheel and grow"? (Like with a hint of Owlman in there, etc?) What characters would you use for that story if you wanted to do it? Also would love to see that video if you ever go back to work on it
There were so many 40-year-old angry White men complaining about "woke" Disney because they casted a different race for an imaginary mermaid princess (and Snow White too), but where are their loud voices now for casting a different race for Dr. Doom? Now, suddenly, in regards to the casting of Robert Downey Jr. as a Romani character, the argument for the angry, whining, White crusaders against "woke" is: "Well, it should go to the best actor." Figures.
I’m mixed about it. On one hand, he’s a good actor, on the other, it really shouldn’t have been him, they should have casted someone else. But I guess we’ll see.
On the multiverse saga, what annoys me is the Loki set it up really well, and then that just didn't get payed off whatsoever. Like loki could have just not happened while being the best thing they have put out in ages.
This is the first chance in a long while of having a great adaptation of Dr Doom on screen and now there's a very real possibility they're just gonna try to make me think of Tony Stark the entire time. I hope they have a trick up their sleeve that gonna make this work, I really do, but this kinda killed my excitement
The RDJ-Doom announcement bummed me out. I still feel like my hype for any new films died with it. As you said, if they wanted to make a fun twist or impactful surprise they wouldn't have announced him like this. RDJ is okay but I don't even love him as Tony Stark tbh, he is good but not the best thing ever imo. But I guess "shortking Doom" can be funny. I won't watch it at the cinema though, I'll wait for it on streaming.
As someone who has only seen the movies with surface level character knowledge, discovering your channel has made me a list of a bunch of stories I want to get into.
First off, I wanna say I love your idea of Doom using Tony's image to fuck with his loved ones. As for what you said at the end. While I may not be a big comic guy (though I thought about collecting them) I understand that some changes the MCU makes to the source material can be a bit iffy, however I wouldn't say they don't respect the comics on that alone, especially considering what you said about Deadpool and Wolverine and it's comic references, and Matt Shakemen being a huge Fantastic Four fan. (I know this may not be a good example but they also had the balls to put fucking M.O.D.O.K in live action and adapt is goofy design). I also want to point out while yes, it does suck that RDJ isn't Romani, that doesent mean his version of Doom won't be, especially considering how Magneto had 2 non Jewish live action actors, and those movies still got his backstory down to a T.
the intro to your channel reminds me that scene from Friends where Phoebe shows Ross the box of stuff she stole from people and Ross is like "Omg, stuff from the street!"
MCU Doctor Doom be like: "Um... he's dooming right behind me, isn't he?"
“It’s Victorbin Time”
"I hate you 3000"
“I’m Doctor Doom!”
“What Professor Devastation was already taken?”
Do you know who I cast for Dr. doom Adam driver
Release the Chair cut
Chris Evans as Galactus is gonna be hype
Scarlett Johansson as Magneto will be even better
Wait did the actor who played war machine die or am I hallucinating that
@@RobertDownySenior I mean, at least she's jewish. More respect than they would ever pay to Doom, apparently.
@@banquetoftheleviathan1404 I don’t think so
@@ivanagustinortiz5237 you mean they have to actually cast a latverian guy for you to be pleased? good luck with that one
Can you imagine if the movie comes out and RDJ was not even in the movie but they just had him hang around set to conceal the actual actor for Doctor Doom.
I would have newfound respect for RDJ if he did that..!
In the universe where everything is perfect, yea man.
Genuinely I'm guessing there's a chance that this was just an elaborate joke and RDJ was just in San Diego for SDCC anyways and they were like 'hey you wanna do something funny?'
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868i wish that was true but there are already reports about him being paid 80+ million & that he came back because the russos did too.. granted every report given to news outlets could be a big inside joke, but i feel like this is too smart for marvel studios to do
god, you have no idea how much i wish that was true
The Russos saying that RDJ is playing *the* Victor Von Doom reminds me of Rocksteady claiming that the Arkham Knight was an original character in their press tour prior to the release.
Didn't people immediately suspect Arkham Knight to be Jason Todd despite him never appearing in the Arkham games before.
@@gayanudugampola8973Yeah lol
Agreed. There's zero chance he's playing Doom as "Victor Von Doom", he's playing Doom as a Tony Stark variant, 1million percent for sure. The Russos do not care one tiny bit about the actual character they are ruining, they just want to appropriate his iconic suit and character design to sell us more Tony Stark stories. It's a travesty.
@@gayanudugampola8973The literal minute I heard Arkham knights voice I knew who it was lol
@@dannyorange9023They literally said he was playing Victor Von Doom during the reveal. They said “Victor Von Doom.”
I've never hoped for a bait and switch so much in my life
Agreed!
Same
Not the first to say this, but that was the record for the fastest "We're so Back" and "MCU is dead."
Average MCU fan after Endgame.
@@gayanudugampola8973 that's because the quality of each release has been all over the place since endgame... im not gonna accept the " shut up, don't think, consume, and enjoy this" mentality.
It's so Joe(Russo)-ver
Average Hater just giving copium answer
@@troyoboyo17you mentioned during the Spider-Man 4 prewrite that you might make a No Way Home rewrite in the future. Do you still wanna make a video on that? If not, how would you rewrite NWH?
“i hate you 3000!” - victor von doom in avengers secret wars
*mf doom intensifies*
Probably the 3000th time I've seen someone copy this comment
@@cholst1 ☝️🥸
😂😂😂😂
“Now prepare to meet your doom… okay that sounded better in my head”
It’s crazy how RDJ is getting paid the amount of at least 3, maybe 4 MCU movies
Not really, most of the MCU movies lately have been far more expensive. It's like one and a half times what 2016 Deadpool's budget was
A single MCU movie these days is like 200 million. 80mil for a single MCU movie would be shockingly low.
@@ProjektTakuI think he means he is being paid for how much he would of got paid for 3/4 movies in the pst
He’s being paid enough money to purchase a small nation
@@shaakzistaken oh, that's fair.
DC started putting comic recs at the end of their trailers for their last few movies. I just cant help but think about how disney would NEVER do something like that. They're so allergic to the source material that got them to where they are today
@@Scandal262 I don't think Disney would even care if the MCU did such a thing
I’ve been saying that for years. It’s like having little to no knowledge of the Marvel universe is a prerequisite. Did you know Shane Black admitted he didn’t know The Mandarin was Iron Man’s chief nemesis?
It’s so EASY to get these movies right.
Critiquing the most obvious stunt casting for a billion dollar franchise isn't being negative. It's being analytical & not just blindly loving whatever is handed, especially when factors like whitewashing are in play
Doctor doom is whitte you cant white wash an already white character
@@landaclay9331Doctor Doom is canonically Romani in the comics. The other Fox movies consistently whitewash him
@@qtarokujo5246more like green washed.
@@qtarokujo5246 in the comics he is white as snow so it dosnt matter who plays him along as it matches his skin tone again why is this a problem when hollywood had been black washing characters
@landaclay9331 Read a book man, I can't go into how wrong you are
Im so glad you brought up the Romani aspect then directly have him compared to Magnetos jewish heritage which is *chefs kiss*
The problem with casting a Romani actor is there aren’t very many well known actors so a stand out would have to actively seek the casting.
@@darkdog42You realise why that is right? There are so few well known Romani actors because people refuse to cast them and keep casting white people instead. There would be far more famous Roma if they actually got to play prominent Romani characters.
Except if this is just a tony stark whot akes up the doom persona. Then there is no reason for him to be romani
@@DficienCProblem is, that's fucking lame.
@@DficienC That would be a pretty stupid decision story wise though, everyone wants to see a proper dr doom adaptation, iron mans story is already complete and people don’t want another tony stark thrown in for no reason
Can’t wait for him to say “The name’s Doctor Doom. Doctor Evil was already taken. 😏”
I liked the part when rdj as doom said "its dooming time" and doomed all over
HOW CAN THIS JOKE STILL MAKE ME LAUGH 💀
@@teo_the_riddler cause he doomed the mcu /s
the place
But it's Fantastic 4. Finally! FINALLY, it'll be clobberin' time!
@@joeygamer5387 I like the part where the Clobber said "Its clobberin' time!" and clobbed all over.
Would’ve been fine if he came back as superior Ironman ☹️
Literally so easy. Right there. Like why
@@troyoboyo17 I feel dumb for feeling so confident that that was the direction they were going 😭
I figured that superior iron man was the reason why Spider-Man was so connected to iron man and why daredevil got revealed when he did
Biggest fumble they’ve made imo but hopefully they’re cooking up something good
Or have him be kang
Like in the ultimate comics
@@guywholikesanimations1018 I've seen some rumors that Majors made a deal with Marvel that prohibited anyone else from playing Kang
@@troyoboyo17”No symbiotes in the mcu, venom is sony only even though we nodded to him coming to the mcu. We literally cannot have RDJ with the symbiote.” I can only make up strawmen
I am so glad somebody else is bringing up Dooms race. It's a huge part of his character and isn't smth I feel should be left to the wayside
Respectfully why? An actor's job is to portray something they are not...
@@ramgami-7122Let’s just cast a white guy as black panther then. Or an Asian guy as magneto and just say that he’s polish and jewish the whole time even though he clearly isn’t. That’s perfectly fine and not completely stupid, right? It’s an actors job, right?
@@meelsky Been done before. Actors just have to vaguely look like the character they are portraying unless they do a race change (the little mermaid for instance)
Off the top of my head, stormfront who is a Nazi in 'The Boys' is portrayed by a Jewish woman. But you don't see anyone complaining because she looks the part...
And also, yes, why not cast a white actor? Dr Doom isn't even fully Romani if you want to get specific. He's half of a fictional country's ethnicity. And as I discussed in another comment, Romanis come in ALL colors, just like Latinos can.
@@ramgami-7122 Nationality isn’t ethnicity, he’s Romani and lives in latveria.
No, there’s never been an Asian guy cast to play a white jewish man. There have been plenty white guys cast to play black characters, and that was because of extreme racism.
@@ramgami-7122 Are you saying we should be casting white english people to play Latinos? You realise it’s not just about skin tone, right? It’s about racism in the industry and how representation in media affects people.
For me there's two major possibilities.
1: Downey is a misdirect and will turn out to be a Doom Bot.
2: it's legit, but he never removes the mask.
There's no possible way he wears that mask for the majority of it
There’s just no way I can buy into the idea that they’re so heavy handed about reusing RDJ and then they don’t use his face.
It just makes no sense. He’s not Daniel day Lewis. There are other actors they can use.
So if they aren’t using him to engage with the fact that “WOW HE LOOKS LIKE TONY STARK,” then what even is the point.
Or… (and hear me out) this is only a one time role where after Secret Wars and they cast someone else with the right ethnicity and great acting chops. Huh?
@@master-of-many-fandoms2020they will 100% only use him until the end of the multiverse saga because they can’t pay him anymore money
@master-of-many-fandoms2020 hey what about nick furry. Also you people whine about white washing even though it happens far less then you people turning white characters black. Also doctor doom is white like duper white
Imagine this: they spent 80m on RDJ. For that money, they can take an entire group of Romani actors, give them acting lessons and pick the best one, and still have money to spare. Heck they could make a reality show based on it and lose nothing.
Probably one of the best videos I’ve seen on this topic. Props for mentioning Doom’s Romani heritage and its significance with the casting
15:00 “say that again”
Feel a little bit doomed!
Not even a mf doom soundtrack can save this decision
That'd be pretty cool tho
@@Lusk1993 a trailer with All Caps would go insanely hard
@@medianickoaccordion
@@medianickodoomsday needs to be on the marvel logo
MF DOOM edit pls
I THINK there's an interesting story in there somewhere - id love to see a story where doom comes in, sees a statue of tony stark, realises his face could garner him endless amounts of trust and uses it for whatever ends he decides on. The crazy evil manipulation he could do would be so on brand and so interesting, I just hope they do something interesting with it rather than a gimmick.
Hold up...
Lemme cook...
Magneto...
... played by tom holland...
10 billion dollars at the box office for mcu x men
As someone that doesnt want magneto ruined, this is a great casting.
Nah, Magneto played by Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson Mystique
@@echoecho57sam Jackson as charles
War machine as nick fury
Stan Lee's corpse as an extra.
Guess you could say this news is a bit of a…
Robert *Downer* Jr.
-Insert forced laugh track-
... please leave...
@@teo_the_riddlerplease leave 🤡
😂😂😂
*GET OU-*
😂😅
If I had a nickel for every time the MCU whitewashed a Romani character, I’d have three nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it sucks that it happened thrice.
Oh but rest assured we are going forward with the IDF actress as the Mossad agent for the MCUs first Jewish hero in a movie. Great to know the priorities lie in military propaganda
Oh god your freaking hilarious because the mcu black washed most characters
@umjammerlammy9993 you know you have to join the miltary if you're from isreal right. Also, mee geussing you support. hamas eich is a terrorist organization, which wants henaside not just against hews but gays as well
@@landaclay9331as in who nick fury isn’t that about it
@@shukreewhitley3882 nick fury used to be white and the op of the comment who I am replying too supports terrorist
my immediate thought was that it was either going to be really good or really bad and no in between
Yeah it’s either some insane galaxy brain move that we just don’t have the eyes to see yet…
or it’s gonna be stinky hotdog water
@@troyoboyo17 i like hotdog water she is my favorite souuby doo character
Wait until the upcoming X-Men MCU movie reveals that the villains will be Magneto and Mystique, played by… Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson!!
Ngl if Scarlett was mystique in the og X-Men would be a good casting
No, they'll cast Scarlet Johansson as Magneto to be culturally appropriate.
"Guys she's jewish its fine...."
@@phantomanchild9744These jokes are not funny
They won’t need it. RDJ was just a hype product
X-Men doesn’t need hype.
“God please let that happen cause that would be so fucking funny”
I actually revisited Books of Doom a few days before the announcement and words cannot describe how excited I was when they revealed the title of Avengers 5 was “Doomsday”, only to be filled with absolute crushing dread and disappointment when RDJ stepped onto the stage.
The best part of Deadpool and Wolverine was that this was the first MCU movie I can visualize in my head as pages from a comic book. Like every scene, every bit of dialogue, I just picture with the drawing style of a comics issue.
Really? I thought Captain America: The First Avenger was the most comic-booky MCU movie.
@@ProjektTaku to each their own, but DAW was the first one to give me that feeling
@@comicalcosmonaut959 fair, I will say it was really fun and I think the Deadpool movies are great examples of how sometimes ripping a character straight from the comics can be a good thing, and also that reinvention can also be very fun.
I'm hoping this is a scream 1 situation where we think it's rdj then he gets killed by the real doom , then bring rdj as superior ironman
When I saw he was being casted as Doom, my first thought was that it seemed desperate. After I thought about it for an hour, I still found it desperate.
Let’s see how I feel after this video.
Still desperate right?
@@eliottdavyYep, still feels desperate.
The only way I could see this really "working" is having RDJ be the MCU's version of a Doombot, where instead of being an actual robot they're brainwashed people- this version being the Iron Man of the real Doom's universe. It'd be the... least bad way to open up the door for RDJ's return while still being easy cred for Doom
Dude. Doom slowly taking over one Avenger at a time could be HORRIFYING if done properly.
Doctor Doom is my favourite Marvel villain and such a complex character with a fantastic rivalry with Reed Richards (pun intended). Though I LOVE RDJ, and he's a phenomenal actor, I do worry if this casting will affect how they adapt Doom since his rivalry with Reed and Latverian/Romani heritage, which are both quintessential aspects of his character. Regardless, Im willing to give this a chance and Im excited to see Doctor Doom return to the big screen again, but Im still very adamant about this casting. They could explore a solid story about Tony being his own worst enemy and the biggest threat to the multiverse; since the MCU started with RDJ, it feels rather poetic that it would end with him. I do think they can touch on good themes surrounding the power of our choices, as Doom could reflect the juxtaposition of Tony's entire character arc in the MCU since Tony learned humility and what it means to make sacrifices for others because of his experience in Afghanistan and friendship with the Avengers, Doom on the other started out with nothing as a Romani peasant and lost his whole family and had to learn to fend for himself mastering both science and magic and liberating the people of his country and becoming the ruler of Latveria for the better, thus creating this god-complex in Doom and establishing an underlying sense of resentment for others if they disagree with his perspective as shown with his immense pettiness against Reed Richards fueling their iconic rivalry, so there is room for them to explore the parallels between the two. But the problem with that is that no matter how you choose to see Doom as his own character in the MCU despite being played by RDJ, you are still going to look at Doctor Doom and think of Iron Man, which is so disheartening since Doom has hardly anything to do with Iron Man as his own origin, motivation and complex and burning hatred for Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four are what makes Doom one of the most influential villains in fiction. I feel mixed about the casting since they're hyping up this movie by bringing back RDJ. Not to mention, there were better choices out there to play Doom and indeed allow the character to be their own individual villain to truly make a name for themselves, not to mention actually cast a European actor to better portray and tap into Doom's Romani heritage (some of my fan castings included Rufus Sewell, Dominic Rains, Nikolaj Costa Waldu etc...) all without the need of being tied down to a previous MCU character that completed their arc. But like I said, I'm always happy to be proven wrong since RDJ will surely do a great job. Still, since the character has been done terribly in all of his live-action appearances, and this will be the 4th time they will see the character, a lot is riding on them to truly nail Doctor Doom for a whole new generation.
Guess Harvey Dent was right: *"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"*
Chris Evans is Galactus
Aaron Taylor-Johnson is Knull
Scarlett Johansson is Annihilus
Josh Bron is Graviton
The glass breaking metaphor and the feeling of desperation were both 100% sentiments that came up when I was talking with some of my friends. Regardless of how well Downey may or may not perform in the role, this does not feel like a decision born from carefully laid plans that they've been wanting to use for a while, this felt like throwing darts at a board with assorted "things the audiences like" sticky notes hoping that if they use enough of them it will get butts back in seats. And it is rather ironic given how well Deadpool and Wolverine is doing when Wade literally calls out that maybe this multiverse stuff isn't the right idea in-movie.
It's a bad idea. A bad idea can be executed well but that doesn't change it from being a bad idea.
It would be such a DOOM move to have a fakeout casting of RDJ.
You hit the nail on the head with your mum talking to you about it... my mum is not in the 'content-sphere', but even she was like "this seems a bit desperate, I won't be able to see him as anything other than Iron Man" without me even prompting the conversation.
I was just hoping that Dr. Doom would be played by Conner Swindell (from “Barbie”, “Barbarians” & “Sex Education”), who just happens to be a Romani actor himself
Bro calling Cillian who playes Oppenheimer in the movie "the other guy in Oppenheimer" is funny af for no reason to me
15:02 HE SAID IT! HE SAID IT!
THANK YOU! You have no idea how many times people have called me an idiot and pulled out infamous iron man as an argument. I have literally had to pull it off a shelf to show someone what it actually is.
i think they shouldve gone the route of star wars and do crazy intense and long casting sennsions to find and cast someone who's perect for the role and they dont at all have to be well known. thats one of the major problems with fan casting is that it's usually going to be someone popular.
3:33 in regards to the Russos saying RDJ is "The" Doctor Doom my only hope is that they're actually lying and there's more to it. I don't think that's entirely a cope either since I doubt they'd bring back the actor for Iron Man as a different character in the big multiverse event movie and just play it entirely straight with no wrinkles or twist to it. There's also no mention of RDJ being in the Fantastic 4 movie from what I can tell and it'd be weird to make a F4 movie that doesn't have any mention of Doom whatsoever even if he isn't the main villain. I'm still holding out some hope that he is in fact playing a variant and that there'll still be a proper "real" Doom alongside him.
That is a cope tough. Stop being delusional they will not pay him 100 Mio for him being only one side character
@@tomgu2285 That doesn't mean he'll be a side character he can still be the main villain for one or both of the next avengers movies. I don't even really expect it I just think it'd be a little weird if they didn't pull some other twist when the entire point of this arc has been about alternate universe versions of existing characters.
I have enough faith in the Russos that I really doubt they’d buy into this so hard without a twist planned
He could always be just another Multiversal version of him.
Not THE Doctor Doom.
They can endlessly recast Batman and Superman but they can’t recast Iron Man?
Plot twist: RDJ is actually playing a Doombot.
Finally someone agrees, you hit every point I’ve been trying to make and I don’t hear enough people discussing it.
Nah the audacity for them to say rdj is the only onr in the world who can play Doom
I hope Feige lets RDJ utilize his dramatic and serious acting abilities. If they make him quip and say endless cringe one liners I won’t like it. In general I hope MCU has villains again that barely, or better yet , never quip
@@nicholasdeporto5257 how many MCU movies have you even watched?
The emergency glass analogy was great
I could see Marvel introducing a Romani Doctor Doom after the Multiverse Saga is over. There may already be a Doom that exists in the 616 universe due to there being a Latveria easter egg in the first episode of Moon Knight.
"I am Docter Doom....erm that soudned better in my head"
Guys hear me out…
Danny DeVito as Doctor Doom
Pete Davidson as modok
Unironically a better casting
2:44 people were talking a lot about Chris Evans being cast as Captain America. Everything since has been safe but fairly well done.
3:25 GOAT mentioned
i rly appreciate how much nuance you put into commenting on these things man, glad you talked about it
Marvel is trying to ride off of the Avengers hype because they believe that getting all of the popular superheroes together to fight a greater threat is the way to make money. Something that even DC tried to do with Justice League in the cinematic universe.
I love the MF DOOM mention. His music made me have more respect for him as a character and do more research on him
As someone who has Romani heritage, Doom is a character close to my heart, while im not super well versed in the Romani culture (my greay grandmother was Romani, and she died when I was pretty young)
I find this casting shitty on multiple sides, in terms of the racial aspect of it; it feels so sad to strip that from Doom and twice as sad to take that opportunity away from an actor who is Romani or has Romani ties (I always joked about me playing Doom but its a character I'd genuinely love to play as an actor and someone with that heritage)
On the other side of it, no matter what they do with him, he'll be seen as iron man, compared to iron man, viewed through the lens of iron man. I love RDJ and to be honest i think as an actor he could definitely pull off the role, but his casting is a gimmick for THE Marvel supervillain. Doom is gonna be boiled down to the face reveal moment and his whole character will be centred on that unless they go for a Doom that never shows his face
they have to play this straight. no jokes about iron man. even if they do a face reveal, it should be so scarred you can't recognise RDJ. If they're directly adapting Hickman's Secret Wars 2015, what they can do is in the end when his face is final fixed and he's laughing, they can cast the new DOOM
I heard of this casting right after getting out of Deadpool and Wolverine and the whiplash was palpable
I hope that with the backlash, they just make RDJ's Doom (which is pretty weird to say) a variant because it'd be really hard to convince the audience that this guy (who looks like one of the most recognizable billionaires in the world) hasn't been recognized as such
Or, they just go the rhodey route, say one line about it and continue like nothing
But what would be the point of keeping the "variant" stuff now that they abandoned Kang.
Enough people, including myself, are looking forward to this so they will reconsider nothing. Nobody cares about comic book accuracy, Fiege is looking for a way to wheel general audiences back into the storyline of the MCU. RDJ will do that lol
@@Effective_tool_of_Satan they abandoned Kang, but they havent abandoned the multiverse idea. it was a main plotpoint in deadpool 3
@@jessec.6876so you just like lazy slop? Good for you, but normal people don't like lazy slop. Especially something so lazy as to give someone who's been acting as a hero for well over a decade in the films a whole different character...who's also a villain...in the same universe...
@@coolssdude3063 movie isn’t even out yet, how do you know it’s lazy slop?? 😂😂😂
I was initially happy about RDJ as Dr Doom, because I thought it would kinda be based on the mindswap story, but since it's not going to be that, I think they definitely should've reached out to the guy that played him in the Fantastic 4 movies, Julian McMahon, and see if he wanted the role again. I would love to see him as Dr Doom again.
I think Adam Driver would’ve absolutely owned this role, I was so excited when his name was floating around…what a shame.
Yeah, would’ve been fantastic! I guess he read the script and said nah yeah nah
Omfg Adam would have been phenomenal either him or Cillian Murphy
God, no. Adam Driver is an overrated overactor. Plus, it would just be a rehash of Kylo Ren.
Your theory was literally the same theory I had after the reveal. And then I had the same realization right after: they probably shouldn’t have told us he was coming back.
There is absolutely a way to make this decision work. I just have no faith in the MCU right now to pull it off.
6:37 I do love that DC seems to understand this issue and is actually working to try to fix it. The Batman released with a 3 pack of Ego, The Long Halloween and Year One, and I genuinely think that’s a great idea to bundle the movies with the books that they’re based on!
EDIT 14:34 Spoke too soon!
I still think it's a bit disingenuous to say that RDJ only came back mainly for the big paycheck. He understands Iron Man was a crucial part of turning his career around after his troubled times, and knows the importance of his character and his death. I don't think he would sign off on this without really trusting/ believing in whatever is being done with Doom.
There's been a lot of that kind of thing lately where people trash talk RDJ for no real reason.
There was a story when RDJ betrayed an actor who played Rhodey in the first Iron Man and it was because of the money(and the actor helped Robert before), so there is a possible dark side in the current events
I think the main cool idea I can see
with this casting is that having access to RDJ could also mean he could come back as a version of Iron Man to face off against RDJ’s version of Doom. If he does a good enough job as Doom, I think it would be kind of cool seeing a hero facing off against a completely different villain played by the same actor. It would be like the Captain America fight from Endgame on steroids. But again, that still doesn’t take away from the fact that this is stunt casting and is largely going to ignore the Romani side of the character.
Next they’ll cast Chris Evans as Magneto
If you have seen any other RDJ movie then you would know this role is 100% in his range and I’m really excited to see how he acts
Finally someone who gets what infamous iron man is about, MCU Doom clearly is set to make a ripple, still a very questionable idea
I hope they treat it the same way Deadpool 2 did it with Ryan Reynolds playing both Deadpool and juggernaut
I really hope RDJ does Doom justice just to justify the casting but the russos saying thier was none else feels like a slap to the face to actors everywhere,
I be really early… uhhh…
Release the Chair Cut Troy! 😤😤
Yea
Release the hair cut
Your comment says 13 hours ago for me, I guess you ARE early
This is the first video i see of you and when you said that the MCU doesnt care as much about the comic fans anymore everything clicked, i feel just the same way because its a little said reading these classic stories and just knowing the movies wont be anything like it, amazing video, amazing channel keep up the good work!
@@diazgonzalezjorgeluis2115 then explain why the MCU is perfectly OK with hiring big comic fans like Iman valani and Matt shakmen
It's not like they hate the fans, it's really just a business at this point. If people that like comics can make them money than so be it, but they don't go out of their way to cater to marvel fans
I’ve recently ran into your channel these last 2 weeks and I’ve been just binge watching all your videos! Keep doing your thing bro!
Your suggestion for the route they could take is amazing and I hope you are correct
5:23 FINALLY someone pointed it out, everyone and their mother is saying its invincible ironman and it pisses me off because IT BARELY EVEN CONNECTS
This is why you’re one of my favorite comic TH-camrs. The MF DOOM mention makes me happy.
Thank you for bringing up him being Romani, i was worried that would get ignored
Cillian Murphy did play a character with Romani heritage in the show "Peaky Blinders" that he stars in, so he couldve woked as Doom if he was casted
He was literally BORN for the role, he has such a intimidating and authoritative aura in that show. I feel like living in the wrong universe for the fact that he didn't got casted as Dr. Doom, Robert Downey Jr just feels out of place and it's basically a desperate stunt casting.
Would be nice to get an actual romani guy though
Before this casting, Cillian Murphy never really struck me as the kind of actor who'd want to commit full-time to a Marvel role for a decade, so we wouldn't have been getting a long-term presence out of him as Doom or any other characters.
But the RDJ casting (plus the massive paycheck he's getting for it) all but confirms that they're only using Doom for 2/3 movies back-to-back anyway. So I feel Murphy probably would have been willing to do that (if he'd liked the script, of course) and now it really does feel like a missed opportunity.
or you know (and here me out on this) we get an actual romani guy to play victor
Cillian Murphy would fare better as Annihilus.
I learned a lot from this video. Subscribed!
So… in more positive news, what are your thoughts on the recent Daredevil Born Again announcements?
That Look Good
MF DOOM reference, already peak video 🙌🏽
The only thing, and I mean the ONLY thing, that gives me 1% hope for this is the fact that it's RDJ. I hope that he wouldn't just do it for the money, though I think it's equally as possible that he just misses the red carpets, premieres, adulation, etc.
I mean he did say that he’d only come back for the Russos and he held to that which does show he has some respect for stories he’s in
Hey Troy, I see a lot of people mention "using the multiverse in interesting ways instead of just cameo central" and while I agree with the take, I'm a little confused on what that would really mean. Would love to see you with a pitch video on how you would've used the multiverse concept with different characters.
I hope you see this, I think the video would be interesting, also I wasn't a fan of the casting either, I'm cautiously expectant.
Hey thank you so much for the donation! I think the Multiverse as a concept is great for exploring ideas like the overstimulation of modern day or as a meta commentary on the superhero genre (Everything Everywhere All At Once and Spider-Verse were great for this, I made a video about it a lot time ago but unlisted it since it wasn’t really up to standards), or even just like What If ideas and I don’t feel like the movies have really done anything like that besides Deadpool and Wolverine’s Fox love letter
@@troyoboyo17 no problem! I can see it working as meta commentary on overstimulation 🤔 you're suggesting a plot like "the same stories keep happening over and over, nothing really matters, examine the point of all this, break the wheel and grow"? (Like with a hint of Owlman in there, etc?) What characters would you use for that story if you wanted to do it?
Also would love to see that video if you ever go back to work on it
There were so many 40-year-old angry White men complaining about "woke" Disney because they casted a different race for an imaginary mermaid princess (and Snow White too), but where are their loud voices now for casting a different race for Dr. Doom? Now, suddenly, in regards to the casting of Robert Downey Jr. as a Romani character, the argument for the angry, whining, White crusaders against "woke" is: "Well, it should go to the best actor." Figures.
its racism. it has always been racism. add a bit of sexism to the mix too.
Because Dr Doom is white as fuck in the comics. And why should it matter if his face going to be covered by a mask?
I never noticed the Liefeld's Just Feet store. That's hilarious.
I’m mixed about it.
On one hand, he’s a good actor, on the other, it really shouldn’t have been him, they should have casted someone else.
But I guess we’ll see.
Rare chance they make doom nothing but an evil Tony stark, then I’m going to give up on the MCU.
11:17 the copium is going to make me pass out
Can’t wait to hear “so uhhh, as you guys may or may not know, uhh you all, are, doomed”
On the multiverse saga, what annoys me is the Loki set it up really well, and then that just didn't get payed off whatsoever. Like loki could have just not happened while being the best thing they have put out in ages.
This is the first chance in a long while of having a great adaptation of Dr Doom on screen and now there's a very real possibility they're just gonna try to make me think of Tony Stark the entire time. I hope they have a trick up their sleeve that gonna make this work, I really do, but this kinda killed my excitement
Been waiting for you take on this king
The RDJ-Doom announcement bummed me out. I still feel like my hype for any new films died with it. As you said, if they wanted to make a fun twist or impactful surprise they wouldn't have announced him like this. RDJ is okay but I don't even love him as Tony Stark tbh, he is good but not the best thing ever imo.
But I guess "shortking Doom" can be funny. I won't watch it at the cinema though, I'll wait for it on streaming.
As someone who has only seen the movies with surface level character knowledge, discovering your channel has made me a list of a bunch of stories I want to get into.
First off, I wanna say I love your idea of Doom using Tony's image to fuck with his loved ones.
As for what you said at the end. While I may not be a big comic guy (though I thought about collecting them) I understand that some changes the MCU makes to the source material can be a bit iffy, however I wouldn't say they don't respect the comics on that alone, especially considering what you said about Deadpool and Wolverine and it's comic references, and Matt Shakemen being a huge Fantastic Four fan. (I know this may not be a good example but they also had the balls to put fucking M.O.D.O.K in live action and adapt is goofy design).
I also want to point out while yes, it does suck that RDJ isn't Romani, that doesent mean his version of Doom won't be, especially considering how Magneto had 2 non Jewish live action actors, and those movies still got his backstory down to a T.
RDJ says, "You either die a hero, and live long enough to see yourself become the villain...and well. Forget that previously mentioned either."
i'm still convincing myself this is a big prank like the hit monkey game
the intro to your channel reminds me that scene from Friends where Phoebe shows Ross the box of stuff she stole from people and Ross is like "Omg, stuff from the street!"
MCU Doom be like……..
I hate you 3000
That twist sounds so amazing.